FO/TE Is Suffering

[Zyrusticae]

Yes, yes, I know, stating the obvious.

But, man, when I came back after taking a month off from the game and did a quick TA run, it really hit home for me that Fo/Te is FUCKED.

You're there for Zondeel and the occasional shifta/resta and that's about it. Everything dies before you can even finish charging a technique (yes, really), and even when you DO get a technique off it's completely pointless because everyone else will kill the same target instantly. Though, granted, this is VH with a bunch of 65s, but still, while I might have felt extraneous before, I really feel goddamn useless now when I play her. What am I even there for, except as a leech so I can finish my daily TACOs?

The only thing more useless than Fo/Te is one of the crack class pairings like Fo/Hu or Te/Ra, but you actually have to be honestly irrational to even attempt those pairings in the first place (sorry, guys who actually use those pairings, but you ARE crazy). That's pretty damn sad.

I hate to say this, but maybe the game would be better off if they actually did nerf Fury Stance (or just took out one or two of the damage boost skills from that side of the skill tree), because, goddamn, there's no way in hell a caster class can compete with that +90% damage bonus. Blehhhh.

This completely pointless, stating-the-obvious rant brought to you by Christmas Day gaming depression. Merry Christmas, you fools.

[Resta]

yea being fo makes me sad

[Kondibon]

I hate to say this, but maybe the game would be better off if they actually did nerf Fury Stance (or just took out one or two of the damage boost skills from that side of the skill tree), because, goddamn, there's no way in hell a caster class can compete with that +90% damage bonus. Blehhhh."What should we do for the damage side of the hunter's skill tree?" "I dunno, more easy damage multipliers?" "Sounds good to me!"

That is to say I agree.

[Dinosaur]

So you did one single mission and this is your conclusion? I don't buy it.

Some Fo/Te Nab2 solo in sub-6.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22413661

[UnLucky]

Any time I solo with my Force I just want to switch to Gu/Hu.

Like I'm completely specced for the highest possible damage I can do with elemental weakness. Doesn't matter if it's pure fire Fo/Br against fire weak enemies, or I've got Fo/Te with maxed dark masteries.

I do the same damage values with these techs as Heel Stab, which has twice as many hits.

Oh nice 50k with Namegid, there, too bad any other class class can top that damage five times over while you're charging it up.

Tech crafting is not going to change a thing.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, I converted all my Fo/Te characters to Gu/Hu, and now Hu/Br.
Well, except for my new ice Fo/Te whose damage is rubbish... but sucking enemies together for others to mow down feels really efficient.
Shame she's utterly useless otherwise.

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3077689


http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22413661

Oher classes can kill stuff faster in a TA run alone than waiting for a Fo/Te to zondeel though.
That person also has two lv3 XQ weapons and a full XQ unit set (all with 5 affixes) and is using team tree buffs.
Probably all rank 16 discs too. I'll never achieve a setup like that anywhere in my lifetime.

Point being that a Fo/Te shouldn't need to be ubergeared to perform as well as other classes with so-so gear.
Maybe we should change this thread to "Fo/Te Is Suffering Unless You're Very Lucky And Rich"

[Rakurai]

As horrible as their damage output is, I still find playing the class enjoyable because of Zondeel and the massive AoE radius on Ra Zonde, Gi Barta, and Gi Grants.

[UnLucky]

Yeah I rarely even get a chance to follow up a zondeel though if I'm in a party.

[Ratazana]

Techs one shots enemies before they get to punching range → force op
Techs can't kill enemies before they get to punching range → force useless

[Zyrusticae]

So you did one single mission and this is your conclusion? I don't buy it.

Some Fo/Te Nab2 solo in sub-6.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22413661
NaFoie Spam: The Video

This is pretty much the absolute peak of what a Fo/Te is capable of, using PP convert + PP photon blast to suck up the insane PP usage. That says nothing for other, less-than-ideal situations (attacking enemies that are off-element, for example) and ESPECIALLY for those of us who aren't geared to the teeth at max level (and in those cases, as we all know, any S-ATK/R-ATK class with sub Hu can do better).

I really wish Fo/Tes could just attack whatever the fuck they want and absolutely annihilate it with zero regard for elemental weaknesses like the other classes do. I really, really do wish. That shit's just too much of a pain in the ass to keep up with. If anything, I'd completely replace Element Weak Hit with something else entirely. Maybe a technique-specific equivalent for Fury Stance. That'd be nice.

[GALEFORCE]

I never once thought force was overpowered, even when they could one-shot with zonde.

[The Walrus]

I HAVE THE SOLUTION

Let Fury Stance effect Tech damage.

[TaigaUC]

Techs one shots enemies before they get to punching range → force op
Techs can't kill enemies before they get to punching range → force useless

Direct result of gameplay focusing heavily on killing stuff.
If support gameplay had much more depth, it'd probably be fine.

[pkemr4]

isnt fo/br far better then fo/te..?

[UnLucky]

Techs one shots enemies before they get to punching range → force op
Techs can't kill enemies before they get to punching range → force useless

Pretty much I expect whatever "balance" fix to make techs retarded OP, just like Fury, SRoll, and new Braver PAs.

But a small 5-20% from crafting isn't going to be enough.


Maybe a technique-specific equivalent for Fury Stance. That'd be nice.
Photon Fl-pfffffffffffff

[Zyrusticae]

isnt fo/br far better then fo/te..?
Well, that depends. The damage from Avg Stance is nothing to scoff at, but Techer does give you PP Convert for occasional heavy damage technique spam (Nafoie, Samegid, uncharged Sazan, etc.), so it's not a total loss for sub Techer. That being said, Techer is badly in need of more technique damage that isn't just element-specific.

The element-specific stuff is REALLY bad, frankly. I think they should take it all out, but of course this is SEGA we're talking about, and a complete class overhaul simply isn't in the cards. I just don't enjoy being pigeonholed into having to switch entire skill trees for every single mission type (and of course this isn't an option in the Border Break Chaos-style missions where there isn't one single element that's optimal for everything).

[Cyron Tanryoku]

FO needs Infinity Fire

[SakoHaruo]

eventually we'll all get to be SSJ10000 tier as long as Sega continues to add more and more damage to trees. The cycle shall continue. I have a feeling the first breed of these Super Saiyans will arrive with the upcoming patches.

[gigawuts]

Force's greatest balance flaw is its greatest strength: Its range and AOE.

It's too strong at ranges and against groups for it to ever be strong against individual targets and still stay reasonably balanced.

Well, at least until support becomes A. viable, and B. viable when not a techer.

Force will be worth looking into again when we have the 80 cap but no new difficulty, leaving the game in about the place it was when AQs were the new thing to do.

[TaigaUC]

These kinds of issues are more of a problem with the mechanics of how casters work compared to other classes within the context of PSO2.
Contrary to what SEGA seems to believe, there's only so much that can be done by tweaking damage values.

I'd be perfectly happy if there was more emphasis on support and acknowledging its importance.

[Zyrusticae]

Force's greatest balance flaw is its greatest strength: Its range and AOE.

It's too strong at ranges and against groups for it to ever be strong against individual targets and still stay reasonably balanced.

Well, at least until support becomes A. viable, and B. viable when not a techer.

Force will be worth looking into again when we have the 80 cap but no new difficulty, leaving the game in about the place it was when AQs were the new thing to do.
Funny thing is, with step techniques and stuff like Assault Buster Force's range and AoE advantage is pretty much nil nowadays. Edit: WHICH REMINDS ME, why doesn't Megid hit like a fucking truck?! The projectile is so slow that it may as well be treated as a melee attack! It should have at least twice as much power to compensate!

I think the fact that all of their damage is delayed damage (except for uncharged Sazan, I guess) should be a big balancing factor, too. Not that I would be so remiss as to suggest that techniques should hit as hard as S-Roll Heel Stab, but...

[Arksenth]

How to balance Fo:

Force Meseta Tech Up
Multiplies tech damage by X damage where X00m is the amount of meseta the character is currently carrying.

Of course it works for multipliers below 1 too so if you only have 1m it'll be a .01 multiplier on tech damage.

With top tier rods as expensive as they are, why not make Fo the money sink class?

[The Walrus]

If we're gonna make it a money sink class then just bring back Charge.

[gigawuts]

Funny thing is, with step techniques and stuff like Assault Buster Force's range and AoE advantage is pretty much nil nowadays. Edit: WHICH REMINDS ME, why doesn't Megid hit like a fucking truck?! The projectile is so slow that it may as well be treated as a melee attack! It should have at least twice as much power to compensate!

I think the fact that all of their damage is delayed damage (except for uncharged Sazan, I guess) should be a big balancing factor, too. Not that I would be so remiss as to suggest that techniques should hit as hard as S-Roll Heel Stab, but...

I have been trying to suggest shifting na and sa techs to be balanced for non-charge attacks, at least for techer, for a while now.

Uncharged na techs should all hit as hard as charged na techs on techer, if not harder. Same with sa techs.

[Blundy]

in response to the op from a nooblord:

1) if you have to race people to one shot things, then your damage doesn't really matter all that much.

2) if you really are only there for zondeelio and the occasional shift/deband/resta you may as well rock the fo-tank.

Might as be invincible, hu hu hu.


in other news i hope that tech crafting changes some things up, i want indefinite foie spam even if it does hurt less.

[milranduil]

So you did one single mission and this is your conclusion? I don't buy it.

Some Fo/Te Nab2 solo in sub-6.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22413661

Congrats you found the one run in the entire game that FOTE doesn't suck balls at outside of sustained bursts in AQ (which addbullet spam still make short work of and will when we get higher level enemies in them).

[UnLucky]

Yeah and Gu/Hu can do it sub-5
http://www.nicozon.net/watch/1386456038

[milranduil]

Yeah and Gu/Hu can do it sub-5

Hence why I simply said "doesn't suck balls at" as opposed to "excels at" :3

[Cyhiwraith]

I liked it better when there was no such thing as tech charging :( or skill trees that made you pick 1 out of 6 skills being good :( :( :( and I liked it when FO was a real support (good shifta/deband/resta/res/pipe) Imo ranger is better support, I'll take a WB over shifta or deband anyday XD

[Xaelouse]

Seriously, what ever happened to high-risk high-reward...The best classes right now all have near zero risk for the damage they put out

[The Walrus]

Sega Balance \o/

[Zyrusticae]

Yeah and Gu/Hu can do it sub-5
http://www.nicozon.net/watch/1386456038
Wait a goddamn minute.

Nico Douga supports 60 FPS video?!

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING, YOUTUBE?! GET ON THIS SHIT ASAP GRARRGH

[Sienna]

You call FoTe being suffering during a VH TA, I call FoTe suffering when I have to look like a tool trying to solo a SH Dingell in a far off corner of the universe

Only for another one to spawn

[Original_DFO]

Fo/Te can use a hoop rod. That's all that matters :3

On a serious note, fo/te does suffer a lil but not too bad. in VH TA's I one shot everything very quickly.

Even when ive done SH TA's with JP parties I can keep up rather well with them.

I have end game equips tho so that helps too along with skill :3

But like i said hoop rod >>>> ALL WEPS.

[jooozek]

to this day i can't understand why in the world did they nerf zonde and leave shit like s-roll ja/fury stance in
segac qc

[GuardianGirth]

Fo in general is suffering. They need either:
1. Techs to cost like 30% less PP because FOs are too heavily dependent on PP with no natural growth.
2. AoE Techs need to do like 700-1000 more damage.
3. Single hit techs need to do like 3000-6000 more damage.

[Rakurai]

to this day i can't understand why in the world did they nerf zonde and leave shit like s-roll ja/fury stance in
segac qc

Rather then nerf Zonde, they should've just buffed all of the other techs up to its level.

I doubt FO is ever going to be topping the DPS, though.

[isCasted]

Definitely:
1) Fury Stance is overpowered. IMO Fury Up 2 and Fury Combo Up should be removed and (some bit of) that power should go to Hunter's and Fighter's PAs. Also, damage to you should increase as you put SP into it (like with Fighter's and Braver's stances);

2) The fact that Forces and Techers are bound to elemental masteries is really bad. Also, Zonde does more damage than, say, Foie because of less effective status effect. But, yeah, stuff dies before you can set SE on something. Also, even if they buff other techs, most people will still go with pure Zonde because of Zondeel and Sazonde - best utility techs.


You call FoTe being suffering during a VH TA, I call FoTe suffering when I have to look like a tool trying to solo a SH Dingell in a far off corner of the universe

Only for another one to spawn
Absolutely this. People say that Forces power is in mobbing, but then there are tanky mobs like (Jagd) Dingells, Kuklo/Cyclonehdas, Gu/Ga Wondas who can spawn one by one.

[Ratazana]

to this day i can't understand why in the world did they nerf zonde and leave shit like s-roll ja/fury stance in
segac qc

I think SEGAC learned that nerfing stuff is bad to business - people get upset, less willing to spend money fearing their investment will be rendered useless, some might even stop playing.

Making something OP on the other hand brings lots of money. Everyone will want to play the hottest class. People will need money to buy new stuff, to affix and shit. People will have to actually play the game leveling a new class.

There will probably be no more nerfing from now on. SEGAC will just make something else OP next when the majority of people settle on GU and BR and stop spending money.

[SallySalSal]

All I see in this thread is;

"Hi, I'm a FO and I used to easymode-OHKO things in N-VH, but now it seems like I can't OHKO mobs in SH. Because of how spoiled I was in VH, I would like FO's buffed and all other classes nerfed so I can Heal, Offensive Support, and OHKO everything whenever I feel like it."

[jooozek]

^ not sure if a tryhard troll or a masochist

[~Aya~]

go FO/BR with one of the new bows that has like 950+ T-ATK on it and use Banish Arrow + Cast Techs for ultimate single target dmg. have Talis skill 5/5 and throw your zondeels out there, setting them off with all powerful Zonde etc... I am 53 FO/FI or FO/BR and have no trouble at all. (FO is my least favorite class.......)







Or go BR/HU and SHUNKASHUNKASHUNKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA~

[Celille]

Where's the pizza?

[~Aya~]

Where's the pizza?


It's technically Pisa. UGH~ GG lowpostnoobLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[NoiseHERO]

Ugh, stupid regular team trolls..

[isCasted]

go FO/BR with one of the new bows that has like 950+ T-ATK on it

What if people don't have it? That playstyle is sure fun but you can't rely on it just because there's one 11* you might not get until SH or even then.

[~Aya~]

What if people don't have it? That playstyle is sure fun but you can't rely on it just because there's one 11* you might not get until SH or even then.


Refer to the rest of my post.. Or a bow with some T-attk? I don't know.. bows have disappointed me otherwise~

Vibras bow is 10★ and has a ton of R-attk and good T-attk. it is also cheap at around 1m

[SallySalSal]

Ugh, stupid regular team trolls..

That's "tryhard troll" to you, sir.

[Dark Priest]

All I see in this thread is;

"Hi, I'm a FO and I used to easymode-OHKO things in N-VH, but now it seems like I can't OHKO mobs in SH. Because of how spoiled I was in VH, I would like FO's buffed and all other classes nerfed so I can Heal, Offensive Support, and OHKO everything whenever I feel like it."

Except in this case FO is actually bad or very underwhelming, this is coming from someone who is ALWAYS a main mage in MMOs and RPGS. i am very dissapointed in force in this game, supporting already has it's flaws, (because someone who needs healing has plenty of time to wait on you to charge it and be close enough without dying your self).. but most of the time when you charge techs for damage any other class will have already killed it.

i think honestly what killed FO is the introduction of charged techs. I still find the class fun, but i found my self going to my br/hu for anything remotly difficult, or that actually will take more then 5 minutes.

So this is not a "waa i want to be OP" case it is " i want to actually be useful in anything above hard mode"

They even added an insanly damaging new katana PAs to Bravers already high damage output, yet they seemed to have ignored anything on the class that actually needs a buff.

[Saffran]

Charged techs have always been a core mechanics of the game and they were fine until about 6 months ago. What killed FO is the insane damage everybody can do.
A Gu/Hu doing a JAed Srolled PA automatically multiplies his damage 36folds (well more like 35folds really but shhh). That's without WB and without Chain.
The 2s in the HU tree have to go. Sroll needs a 200% nerf. Etc...

Bah, why do I even care...

[SallySalSal]

GU/HU should be nerfed. Need more GU/RA WB-ing around like the good 'ol times. The JA roll needs to toned down and they should just lower the R-ATK values in the Fury trees only. I think the S-ATK should stay as it is because melee classes should hit hard since they're in the midst of everything.

[Neith]

BR/HU with Shunka is so overpowered that this thread could almost be true about any other class. After playing my BR/HU and doing 10k+ a hit with Shunka, playing anything else just feels weak as hell.

Braver did need some improvements, but not like Shunka's ridiculous damage which has made the game even worse balance than it was before.

The main problem I have with Force classes is the necessity to charge techs. Why not remove the charging mechanic from Force/Techer altogether and just make their 'standard' techs do good damage? That way you're not still charging a tech as every enemy gets killed. Possible exception for Namegid but to be honest even that isn't great anymore when compared to some other classes' skills.

I'd play Force/Techer more if charge techs didn't exist, all it does is let the rest of the team kill everything first. Alternatively, make support techs worth a damn so Force can actually fulfill a support role easier (make Resta heal like PSO rather than in ticks, give support techs a better range without relying on Territory Burst). Of course this would all require a reorganisation of the skill trees but it'd make the classes more worthwhile in my opinion, as well as the game being difficult enough to make a support class worth using (which it isn't).

Also nerf Shunka, it was fun killing everything in 2-3 hits for a while but it is ridiculously overpowered.

[~Aya~]

Charged techs have always been a core mechanics of the game and they were fine until about 6 months ago. What killed FO is the insane damage everybody can do.
A Gu/Hu doing a JAed Srolled PA automatically multiplies his damage 36folds (well more like 35folds really but shhh). That's without WB and without Chain.
The 2s in the HU tree have to go. Sroll needs a 200% nerf. Etc...

Bah, why do I even care...


Then people will complain about HU being nerfed too badly. Also, I think HU deserves its "OP" buffs as they have to get up close/closer to their targets before any decent damage can be done. BR was that class that was pretty bad before it received new skills and better katanas with the addition of the new PA's and is now considered "OP" by some(It's not. It just caught up to the rest of the classes).


I already don't care for Shunka as much as I do for the combination of Kanran/Hatou. If they nerfed Shunka, i'd never touch it again~

HU has OE/A.Buster >>> GU has Heel Stab/Infinite Fire >>> FO has Nafoie/Namegid/Zonde >>> Fi has Symphonic Drive/Bloody Sarabande >>>> BR has Shunka/Hatou

[Sp-24]

Sega seems to be trying to balance Forces, which, while it stands to reason given the amount of techs they have access to, is still idiotic, since their method of fixing or improving other classes is giving them PAs and Skills that are somehow even more broken than what the class used to have before.

Forces instead always get disks that, at best, are somewhat useful, and a bunch of new skills that continue trying to revive stillborn ideas like Photon Flare and using wands.

[jooozek]

inb4 segac forgot that elemental attribute on weapons doesn't do shit to techs when it actually was meant to boost the techs of the weapons element by the percentage of the weapon's attribute
i mean, techs are like the only fucking single thing that gets nothing out of weapon attribute, everything else does


What if people don't have it? That playstyle is sure fun but you can't rely on it just because there's one 11* you might not get until SH or even then.

even if you do have it, what, will you setup a banishing arrow for all the casting you do? bow is also the shittiest PP regainer in the game, bow damage without HU or RA sub is also below mediocrity

[gigawuts]

If tech crafting is super cheap it might be a solution, but I look at tech crafting to be Sega's answer to melee's question: "Why do gunners and forces only need one or maybe two weapons to do every job, while I need like seven?"

FO was too strong for too long, then too weak, then too strong, then too weak. It's either 1shotting things farther than the game's view distance or it's not. This is the whole problem. Techs like nafoie are a partial solution because you can't snipe things with nafoie when they're 5 grids away like you can with grants.

One of FO's real problems is they can't specialize into a tech tier, just elements. Where's the Gi-Tech Mastery? That was such a central part of what balanced forces in PSO1 - your particular force was great at two things, tops, and then was only decent at the other things. Force vs. Techer's whole issue is that Techer doesn't have better damage at close range, it just has better melee. Techer should have better both.

Giving FO simple, Gi, and Ra masteries and then giving Techer uncharged damage bonuses out the ass, boosting Na and Sa techs so they're all on uncharged sazan's levels, would be a good bandaid solution with the way the game works now. Na and Sa techs dealing ~50% damage when uncharged, give Techer +60% uncharged tech damage, change Elysion to be +25% uncharged tech damage. Suddenly Techer's heaviest uncharged hitters include the likes of Namegid, Nazonde, Nazan, Sazan, etc. Two moves from each element (discounting light), no elemental masteries required to be decent.

[Dark Priest]

Charged techs have always been a core mechanics of the game and they were fine until about 6 months ago. What killed FO is the insane damage everybody can do.
A Gu/Hu doing a JAed Srolled PA automatically multiplies his damage 36folds (well more like 35folds really but shhh). That's without WB and without Chain.
The 2s in the HU tree have to go. Sroll needs a 200% nerf. Etc...

Bah, why do I even care...

I kind of worded that wrong but someone already explaind it in a better way, they are to dependant on charged techs for damage, i can't just do uncharged techs without suffering badly in damage or somehow get my hands on a seriously rare weapon and unlock its latent. in other words, in a resonable way.

as far as shunka goes i have no doubt they will be nerfing that soon, when they realized how OP it is. so have fun while you can with that. the fact i could solo VH TA at 41 is a pretty clear indication that this is not balanced.

However much like the new BOW PA you can easily die using them if you are not careful. but as far as FO goes. i really don't see how they can easily fix it without turning it OP in the process, at least based on the the idea of taking away charged dependence and greatly increasing uncharged damage.

[gigawuts]

People were saying the same thing about Over End and that never game - actually, it received an eventual boost.

I still don't see what the issue with having use charged techs is. Like, at all. Your damage is balanced around charged techs. Many PAs have animations that delay damage too. So what? Yes, I play FO all the time. No, it's really not a big deal. If your problem is that you can be flinched while charging then you really need to learn to play the class.

[kabutozero]

GU/HU should be nerfed. Need more GU/RA WB-ing around like the good 'ol times. The JA roll needs to toned down and they should just lower the R-ATK values in the Fury trees only. I think the S-ATK should stay as it is because melee classes should hit hard since they're in the midst of everything.

sorry but NO ,if you want to WB play ra/hu , I HATED when gu didn't have any other option that bow down it's head and sub ra , which was the same as playing ra/gu but worse

Even if it does op damage , it's not a reason to remove gunner newfound playstyle and just force it back being a slave WB user

[gigawuts]

As I've said time and time again

The problem with gun classes is RA's weak bullet. You can't beat 3x damage unless you slather even more damage on another class. That might be crazy op burst damage or it might be op sustained damage, but at the end of the day it needs to be more significant than temporary 3x damage.

If HU is so fucking strong as a sub that it beats 3x damage on RA then there is a problem on both classes.

Nerf weak bullet to be 50% damage for starters, nerf WHA to be 15% and apply it to all damage types, boost gun base damage to compensate, nerf HU's sub multipliers, etc.

[Dark Priest]

People were saying the same thing about Over End and that never game - actually, it received an eventual boost.

I still don't see what the issue with having use charged techs is. Like, at all. Your damage is balanced around charged techs. Many PAs have animations that delay damage too. So what? Yes, I play FO all the time. No, it's really not a big deal. If your problem is that you can be flinched while charging then you really need to learn to play the class.

Who exactly are you refering to cause FO isn't exactly hard to grasp, it's the fact that while you are charging and get a tech off almost every other class will have done triple that damage or killed the enemy.

[gigawuts]

Who exactly are you refering to cause FO isn't exactly hard to grasp, it's the fact that while you are charging and get a tech off almost every other class will have done triple that damage or killed the enemy.

Then spec fire.

Or are you going to tell me other classes deal 3x damage and 1shot things while you charge fire techs?

Yes, force needs a bit of help, but the situation is not that dire.

[SallySalSal]

Then aim at something that isn't being attacked/about to be attacked.

[Coatl]

Then spec fire.

Or are you going to tell me other classes deal 3x damage and 1shot things while you charge fire techs?

Yes, force needs a bit of help, but the situation is not that dire.

Shunka shenron.
That's all braver needed to make any range attack void.

10k first stab, 13k second slash, 15k next slash, finish off with 17k x2.

[gigawuts]

Shunka shenron.
That's all braver needed to make any range attack void.

10k first stab, 13k second slash, 15k next slash, finish off with 17k x2.

Oh, I hadn't noticed what it can do, what with me using it repeatedly while in party with you since it came out.

[Dark Priest]

Then spec fire.

Or are you going to tell me other classes deal 3x damage and 1shot things while you charge fire techs?

Yes, force needs a bit of help, but the situation is not that dire.

So your advice is to "spec fire" "go play this style". looks like you aren't seeing the problem here, or you don't want to. i never said i don't actually play/enjoy the class as i still do, i am just fully aware it is behind every other class in damage output.

[Punisher106]

Nerf? NERF? Nonono, I have to disagree with you, there, let's remove that word from your dictionary. FO/TE's need a BUFF. But then again, I find myself obliterating some bosses quicker than my partners in TAs, sometimes. Hell, in an Oncoming Darkness, where we rushed Hunar, I was the one that kept aggro on that son of a bitch. Also, keep in mind, FOs are invaluable during Elder.

[jooozek]

Nerf? NERF? Nonono, I have to disagree with you, there, let's remove that word from your dictionary. FO/TE's need a BUFF. But then again, I find myself obliterating some bosses quicker than my partners in TAs, sometimes. Hell, in an Oncoming Darkness, where we rushed Hunar, I was the one that kept aggro on that son of a bitch. Also, keep in mind, FOs are invaluable during Elder.

how are forces invaluable? anyone with a pair of twin mechs with shock can do the same that 3 forces can :lol:

[gigawuts]

So your advice is to "spec fire" "go play this style". looks like you aren't seeing the problem here, or you don't want to. i never said i don't actually play/enjoy the class as i still do, i am just fully aware it is behind every other class in damage output.

Have your eyes checked then? I keep saying the class needs help. Over and over.

You're just screaming the sky is falling because leaves fell off of trees last autumn.

[Dark Priest]

Have your eyes checked then? I keep saying the class needs help. Over and over.

You're just screaming the sky is falling because leaves fell off of trees last autumn.

But i'm not. Looks like your eyes need checked. not even sure how you came to that conclusion. i simply explained a few examples. that are clearly not facts, but observations.

[gigawuts]

Yes, everybody is going to deal triple damage to everything while you charge your first tech.

Sky = not falling, completely not an exaggeration in any way shape or form

Why do I still open these threads? You people are seriously idiots. I mean, I'm not even being a jerk about it. You people are dumb.

[Dark Priest]

Yes, everybody is going to deal triple damage to everything while you charge your first tech.

Sky = not falling, completely not an exaggeration in any way shape or form

Why do I still open these threads? You people are seriously idiots. I mean, I'm not even being a jerk about it. You people are dumb.

I agree, since you just proved it your self, and you still missed the point and just went with whatever poped in your head. so i am pretty much done with this cause i see it going no where good, you disagree, i get it, moving on.

[gigawuts]

I agree, since you just proved it your self, and you still missed the point and just went with whatever poped in your head. so i am pretty much done with this cause i see it going no where good, you disagree, i get it, moving on.

You can intend to make a point all you want, but that doesn't matter if you don't actually convey it.

I mean, with such gems as

that are clearly not facts, but observations
How can I possibly not understand?

[Ran Yakumo]

Yeah , it's suffering, but you'll get the hang of it once you know your strategy.My strategy : Talis, with a mixture of rods.

I am waiting for the month of Forces and Techers, I mean SEGA poured their time on making Gunners, Bravers and Techer wand builds great, right? Come on, don't lose your hopes on Fo or Te or both.They may buff or update the trees making Fo/Te compatible to all Difficulties.


I am still gonna use PF on my Fo/Te, with Circuit breaker as a boost.My friend did some nice calculation on PF and Non-PF damages, here's what he formulated so far.Formulation doesn't include PF boosts.

Formula source: http://ohpso2.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Formula
Formula: ((P)T-ATK - (E)T-DEF) * 0.2 * M
M are multipliers
Multiply by 3 for Weak Bullet damage
Calculations do not include bonuses from units and/or weapon affixes
Foie damage based on lvl16 disc

Photon Flare'd:
802 base T-ATK
+1069 Esca Hermes
+200 T-ATK Shifta
+400 T-ATK Photon Flare

1.2 FM1
1.1 TCA1
1.09 TCA2
1.2 FM2

1.25 shifta bonus
1.3 JA
1.1 Charged
1.2 element weak
3.42 Foie
1.2 Enemy weak to element

=7,511.3684 (7,512 truncated) damage to a zero T-DEF target that's weak against Fire-based damage

======

Non Photon Flare'd
802 base T-ATK
+1069 Esca Hermes
+200 Shifta

1.2 FM1
1.1 TCA1
1.1 TCA2
1.2 FM2

1.25 shifta bonus
1.3 JA
1.1 Charged
1.2 Element Weak
3.42 Foie
1.2 Enemy Weak to Element

=6,353.20115 (6,354 truncated) damage to a zero T-DEF target that's weak against Fire-based damage

Edit : Added some points.

[~Aya~]

Yeah , it's suffering, but you'll get the hang of it once you know your strategy.My strategy : Talis, with a mixture of rods.


I am still gonna use PF on my Fo/Te, with Circuit breaker as a boost.My friend did some nice calculation on PF and Non-PF damages, here's what he formulated so far.Formulation doesn't include PF boosts.

Formula source: http://ohpso2.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Formula
Formula: ((P)T-ATK - (E)T-DEF) * 0.2 * M
M are multipliers
Multiply by 3 for Weak Bullet damage
Calculations do not include bonuses from units and/or weapon affixes
Foie damage based on lvl16 disc

Photon Flare'd:
802 base T-ATK
+1069 Esca Hermes
+200 T-ATK Shifta
+400 T-ATK Photon Flare

1.2 FM1
1.1 TCA1
1.09 TCA2
1.2 FM2

1.25 shifta bonus
1.3 JA
1.1 Charged
1.2 element weak
3.42 Foie
1.2 Enemy weak to element

=7,511.3684 (7,512 truncated) damage to a zero T-DEF target that's weak against Fire-based damage

======

Non Photon Flare'd
802 base T-ATK
+1069 Esca Hermes
+200 Shifta

1.2 FM1
1.1 TCA1
1.1 TCA2
1.2 FM2

1.25 shifta bonus
1.3 JA
1.1 Charged
1.2 Element Weak
3.42 Foie
1.2 Enemy Weak to Element

=6,353.20115 (6,354 truncated) damage to a zero T-DEF target that's weak against Fire-based damage


You're basically saying that Photon Flare sucks as it is and needs a % buff over pure T-Atk. AGREEEEEEEEEEEEED~

[Ran Yakumo]

You're basically saying that Photon Flare sucks as it is and needs a % buff over pure T-Atk. AGREEEEEEEEEEEEED~


A bit, but I didn't say it sucks.I am still gonna use it though.And like everyone else, I am hoping that they'll change how PF works, from flat boost to percentage boosts.

[gigawuts]

PF is the old fury stance except it lasts 30 seconds. It's a very very very tiny gain but it's better than nothing.

Except, well, FO has other options.

[TaigaUC]

Why do I still open these threads? You people are seriously idiots. I mean, I'm not even being a jerk about it. You people are dumb.

It's why I usually don't post or read forums on the internet.
I think the people who do post are usually out looking for someone to argue with, even if they know they aren't making any sense.

That theory is consistent with the ridiculous amount of straw-manning I constantly see everywhere.


A bit, but I didn't say it sucks.I am still gonna use it though.And like everyone else, I am hoping that they'll change how PF works, from flat boost to percentage boosts.

I tried Photon Flare recently and personally felt that it was ass.
Doesn't last long, wastes time recasting, has a fat cooldown, a large HP penalty, and it takes up half the ice skill tree.
You need to invest way too much into it for it to be mildly decent, too.

Maybe it's because I used to play WoW.
Photon Flare is just crap compared to WoW's talent-based increased magic damage abilities.

[UnLucky]

A bit, but I didn't say it sucks.I am still gonna use it though.And like everyone else, I am hoping that they'll change how PF works, from flat boost to percentage boosts.

Why would you spend 20 SP in Photon Flare when you could spend 10 in Tech JA which is active all the time?

You would also have spare SP for Talis Bonus and Rare Mastery.

Even with the rod, that brings up your Foie's estimate up to 7k without PF.

Also, I don't know why you're considering "Shifta Bonus" as a 125% multiplier. It only modifies Shifta itself. So 200 T-Atk becomes 250 and no more (though with 800 base, your Shifta is only giving you 156 T-Atk, or 195 with Shifta Advance).


PF is the old fury stance except it lasts 30 seconds. It's a very very very tiny gain but it's better than nothing.

Except, well, FO has other options.
I don't understand why it is so bad.

Old Fury Stance gave 150 Atk for 600s and everyone knew it was bad.

Photon Flare gives 200 Atk for 30s and they just keep adding more and more SP to it. Like After Burst, what the hell is that? +100 T-Atk for 30s? THAT'S EVEN WORSE

[dr apocalipsis]

inb4 segac forgot that elemental attribute on weapons doesn't do shit to techs when it actually was meant to boost the techs of the weapons element by the percentage of the weapon's attribute
i mean, techs are like the only fucking single thing that gets nothing out of weapon attribute, everything else does


Thats the point. Every other class can buy up to +50% multiplier, while FoTes can't. And every 10*+ wep have at least +20% for free.

My namegid should do 120k dmg instead of 80k every 6 seconds. And then we start talking about trees.

[gigawuts]

And while we're on that topic, masteries should apply a bonus to the elemental portion of a weapon's damage.

So a 50% fire sword with both fire masteries should get 50%*1.44=72% fire damage.

It's not a big change, but it's something that should have been there since the beginning. Masteries shouldn't just be for techs; they should be for all damage of that element.

[TaigaUC]

I'd like to talk about gameplay mechanics other than damage multipliers.
But I guess that's kinda unrealistic for PSO2.

[jcart953]

I find this topic interesting because a while back there was a similar melee topic essentially saying the same thing. "Forces to op they nuke everything on the screen before I can run up and smack anything". Now, the roles have reverse its funny how sega works.

Anyway I do believe casters need a bit of a buff (especially techer), however I don't believe it should be that big of a buff. Otherwise they would have the safety of range, be able to nuke everything on screen, OHKO, cheaper weapon making potential and potentially blind me with there flashy lights :). Not to mention the item customization seems more geared towards casters, now whether that's enough is tbd.

[MetalDude]

It's mostly because long-range sniping combined with weak enemy HP allowed FO to dominate very handily. Now that there's a large number of enemies in SH and overall with large HP pools, FO's fundamental flaws stick out more obviously. Damage bonuses would be a bandaid to their problems, but I kind of like what giga brought up with GI and RA specialty.

[Sakarisei]

Oh, topics like this is made by people who is worried more in oneshotting than teamworkinfg, or at least that's my feeling while reading it, lol.

[jooozek]

Oh, topics like this is made by people who is worried more in oneshotting than teamworkinfg, or at least that's my feeling while reading it, lol.
lol teamwork in this game
not sure if serious
or beating a dead horse

[CelestialBlade]

So did PSO2 become PSU-level-difficulty already? I've never tried Super Hard or whatever but this sounds like every single PSU General thread.

[jooozek]

So did PSO2 become PSU-level-difficulty already? I've never tried Super Hard or whatever but this sounds like every single PSU General thread.

enemies are hp sponges now (i think oodans have like 16k hp?) and forces that could barely oneshot enemies (too, only if they were specced for some specific element) can't do much anymore, nothing worth was added to trees, weapon upgrades from SH don't provide much more than you could get pre-super hard thus grief

the only thing that changed in difficulty is more intensive attack spam from bosses and enemies closing speed distance

[Zyrusticae]

Then spec fire.

Or are you going to tell me other classes deal 3x damage and 1shot things while you charge fire techs?

Yes, force needs a bit of help, but the situation is not that dire.
It is pretty dire, though. I mean, between Force and Techer the fire tree is like 1/6 of all the skills they have, and it's a single element, at that. Maybe a Fire force can do pretty well on its own (as that TA video showed) but any other element just falls flat on its ass.

And as someone who wants nothing more than to be able to spam megid all day in every mission and still be effective, that's pretty fucking dire.

[Sakarisei]

lol teamwork in this game
not sure if serious
or beating a dead horse

That's why i'd made that post, lol


enemies are hp sponges now (i think oodans have like 16k hp?) and forces that could barely oneshot enemies (too, only if they were specced for some specific element) can't do much anymore, nothing worth was added to trees, weapon upgrades from SH don't provide much more than you could get pre-super hard thus grief

the only thing that changed in difficulty is more intensive attack spam from bosses and enemies closing speed distance

Not only. They should increase significantly hp and def stats from mobs and bosses, and of course, they should make viable, at least, more than 50% of possible combos in this game (ATM, about 8 or 9 are viable, it would be interesting about 20 or more, from 42...)

[NoiseHERO]

Time for my weekly "guess what people are bickering about without reading the thread." post.

People that want fo to be the next most-overused-over-powered-class because being that is now all that matters in this game. Even though it'd make more sense to want this game's balance/class design to not suck in general, they just want FO to be OP because there's a higher chance of that happening over SEGA actually making a good game.

Reach for the Stars.

Stay free.

[jooozek]

Time for my weekly "guess what people are bickering about without reading the thread." post.

People that want fo to be the next most-overused-over-powered-class because being that is now all that matters in this game. Even though it'd make more sense to want this game's balance/class design to not suck in general, they just want FO to be OP because there's a higher chance of that happening over SEGA actually making a good game.

Reach for the Stars.

Stay free.

sounds like something someone who never touched force would say :lol:

[CelestialBlade]

Not only. They should increase significantly hp and def stats from mobs and bosses, and of course, they should make viable, at least, more than 50% of possible combos in this game (ATM, about 8 or 9 are viable, it would be interesting about 20 or more, from 42...)
First off I'd like enemies that are actually remotely threatening rather than shit that claps its fucking hands at you while you wail away at their HP. It's PSU all over again. Once again they keep making players more powerful without making enemies any more threatening. Seeing things go that direction once again was one thing that really killed the game for me.

Bit off-topic, but I'm just sick and tired of "difficulty" meaning "stat boosts". It's lazy and boring.

[NoiseHERO]

sounds like something someone who never touched force would say :lol:

So ya'll not just mad that it's easy to KS FO's zondeels in TD?

[moeri]

Personally, I just want something I can do for a party...

Even with specing into fire, and getting a few hits off before everyting is killed, it just seems like my damage is so low it doesn't matter. Other classes just come in and 1 shot all of the enemies it will take me all day to kill. (on SH)

I am admitedly a bit undergeared, but I don't think me being a part of a SH TACO should SLOW down the party overall. Running the SH TACO for Sanctum is just sad.

[MidCap]

Whoever moved this topic to "Rants" is a fool. Every other class gets a discussion thread, but the mod who moved this topic (probably a GU/HU) just wants to hold them down.

[Coatl]

No. This thread is dumb and it's where it belongs now lol.

[ShinMaruku]

While yes they are not as fast as they used to be I don't think they are fucked up. If sega thinks they are fucked up they will get fucked up in the gu/hu range which is probably part of the bitching is being done.
I play my fo/te (Well more Fo/BR but until they give pp pools growth I will never full go fo/BR)

But really skill trees fucked up this game. Far too often they remove things that if baseline the game would flow without the need for these huge changes.