Need some help regarding a gimmick build

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

There's a build I really wanted to try to do, despite what the populace may say now with Braver being op, yunosubHU, etc.

It was in the official thread build guide, but, with the introduction of the Braver class, I see that it has been completely taken out (that I can see/find, correct me if otherwise). If not, then I would like know what affects what, as far as the two skill trees are concerned.

[jooozek]

oh, a force build?

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

It was going to be a Fi/Fo build. I read before that it was a real gimmicky build, which is why it got my interest. Though the actual setup is no longer there, so I either have to piece it together or ask others on here.

[UnLucky]

I've been meaning to put together some less common builds like various kinds of tanks and such, but it gets a bit complicated since everyone wants something different out of them.

For Fi/Fo, you can pretty much merge a Fi/Hu build with any of the listed Force builds, or simply use Fo/Fi but in reverse.

There's nothing in Force's tree that benefits Fighter weapons, so you can't optimize it as a sub. Chase Advance and *Slayer skills don't benefit techs (Chase Plus does, though), so they would not be in a strictly Fo/Fi build. You can consider picking them up as a Fi/Fo, and definitely get the Gear skills, though.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

Well, I like to try to generalize my damage, even if it's not the best or the highest. And Chase Advance still works on regular attacks, no?

[deahamlet]

Well, I like to try to generalize my damage, even if it's not the best or the highest. And Chase Advance still works on regular attacks, no?

Regular attacks with a force weapon? Even talis is so-so damage wise on that, rod smacking is hilarity itself.

If you max the fire/shock chances in force trees, you can use chase with your fighter PAs to increase damage after you managed to set something on fire or shock them.
Taking advantage of status effects is tricky though as bosses are only weak to the elements they are weak to. Rockbear can be set on fire, but not shocked, Tranmizer can be shocked but not set on fire (as examples). You can try to poison Quartz with dark spells, just no increase chance from your tree. Some spells have more success than others.

You best be mostly solo cause by the time you are done trying to get status on the boss, the other 3 people might have already killed it. :P

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Even then the poison effect on quartz doesn't work with chase advance unless something changed. that's the biggest issue is that regular bosses may have special effects that work on them with certain SEs, but they dont count as those SEs and the end result is CA not working on the bosses you'd want that extra damage for.

[UnLucky]

And definitely don't get the Status Boost skills for techs, they are not noticeable at all. It makes a 20% chance into 22%, not 30%.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Anyway UnLucky already said this but just to clarify, Fi/Fo was basically Taking a Fo/Fi tree and filling out Fi to match it more for melee. There wasn't much to it as far as innovation. The two classes only have a 1-way synergy as even though Fo gains quite a bit from Fi, Fi gets almost nothing from Fo. If you do this just bear in mind that you'll be lacking on all sides particularly vs bosses for the reasons mentioned in previous posts.

[yoshiblue]

Offtopic: Would a trap ranger count as a gimmick build?

[GALEFORCE]

I hesitate to call it a "build", but it is certainly gimmicky. It might actually be fun using the gunslash with the trap potential, if traps were at all functional that is.

[UnLucky]

Extremely gimmicky, to the point of being a trash build that doesn't work.

Other builds might be ineffective or laughably weak, but traps just do not function on a base level. They're slow, weak, and limited.

They're decent on a completely immobile target, but only if you use up your entire supply. And just about anything is decent on a completely immobile target.

A trap user is in a completely different category from a tank or support spec. Those kind of players are either misguided or stubborn, but they're at least trying to be useful in their own way. Traps just don't do jack, and I really hope you at least brought WB so you can be worth the party slot over an NPC.

[yoshiblue]

Nah, since this was a subject of a gimmick build, figured I should ask if there were any improvements. A shame seeing something that would be awesome become such a waste of points. Though it would be funny if the traps were those red rings and homing nukes.

Thanks for the info though. I also hope Akuno finds the build of sought after gimmicks as well.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

Well, the replies I've been reading are rather discouraging. Fi/Fo doesn't seem worth the try if Fi isn't getting much from Fo. Guess one can't really try to deviate from the norm
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What about having Braver as a sub for Fi? Or something more outlandish like Ra/Gu? >_>

[holmwood]

Well, the replies I've been reading are rather discouraging. Fi/Fo doesn't seem worth the try if Fi isn't getting much from Fo. Guess one can't really try to deviate from the norm

Fi/Te could be interesting.
If wand lovers applies to strike damage in general, Fighters will benefit.
With the crafted techs system and wind mastery, you can also increase the effectiveness of zanverse.
35% from wand lovers , 30%(maybe 50 with tech crafting) from zanverse, 44% from wind mastery... Multipliers are comparable to Hu and you get the benefit of pp convert/zondeel.
Seems not that gimp. Tell me if my logic is flawed.

We can only wait until later this month to see how exactly wand lovers works.

[Rakurai]

I really wish they'd make it so traps are actually useful.

Letting you carry 999 of them after the next patch would be a start.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

I haven't looked much into the other types, but I'm trying to avoid the norm (like Fi/Hu, Br/x, etc). Techer seems interesting, but from what I'm reading, it's damage is coming from using wands, and striking, but again, I'm a noob for this.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Well, the replies I've been reading are rather discouraging. Fi/Fo doesn't seem worth the try if Fi isn't getting much from Fo. Guess one can't really try to deviate from the norm
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What about having Braver as a sub for Fi? Or something more outlandish like Ra/Gu? >_>

Ra/Gu isn't recommended because Gu's biggest damage bonus requires TMGs. The others require you be in very close proximity which doesn't lend itself to Ra's poor evasive options. So the only things left are perfect keeper and CT. Better to tell us what you're looking to do gameplay wise and see if we can come up with something that isn't TOO mainstream.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

I meant having Ra or Gu as a subclass for fighter, sorry about that. And I've always been a up close n' personal player, but I like to mix it up with ranged damage if I have the option

[UnLucky]

Fi/Br has the same problem as Fi/Gu (or Hu/Gu) in that the majority of its skills are locked to its main weapons. If you had a powerful multi-class katana, you could play like a Br/Fi, but that's just a weaker Br/Hu. Use Fighter weapons and you're just a weaker Fi/Hu.

It's not interesting or unique, you're just the same thing but weak.

That's the big problem with class balance in PSO2. Any class combination that makes sense just isn't nearly as powerful as subbing Hunter instead. Anything else like Fi/Ra or Hu/Fo have next to no synergy whatsoever, so you're basically playing without a subclass at all.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

So there's really no hope in trying to do something that isn't horribly mainstream?

[UnLucky]

Well if you're up for it, you could try a Ranger or Gunner sub like these (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06kAbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0lbI n0000000lb000009bJdHSIdI2jdqcAfbn0000lbbq52cFaIcDG A00007b000000lb0000000Ib000008). Weak Bullet is always good, and you'll at least have better PP regen.

Builds are mainstream for a reason, though you can always do something a little different even with a cookie cutter build. Then again, weapons and PAs also suffer a similar fate.

[GALEFORCE]

Not if you don't want to solo horribly or leech.

I like the idea of fi/gu. APPR gives great PP regen, and you have PK as a universal multiplier. Chain trigger works with any weapon. You just don't have enough melee damage bonuses to make up for the losses. It would be a great choice if ZRA worked with melee.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

I wouldn't necessarily need PAs for setting CT off, would I? Otherwise, I kinda like the sound of Fi/Gu, but, again, mainstream is strong here...

[UnLucky]

Normal attacks build the chain count, PAs/techs set it off. Any attack from your party (not MPA) will build chain, but they cannot set it off, nor get the damage bonus.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

But any PAs I would use are the trigger, this including Fi PAs?

[UnLucky]

Chain Trigger can be used with any weapon, placed with any weapon, built up with any weapon, and activated with any weapon (using a PA or tech).

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

Well, I'm kinda liking the sound of Fi/Gu, but, gonna have to do more research before I go back to playing, I suppose.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I'd been tooling around with Fi/Gu myself (On paper) since I was a Figunner in PSU and would love to mix dualies and DSes again. There's no synergy with a lot of what fighter offers gunner and vice versa but what does work work well.

[gigawuts]

Fi/Gu would be somewhat approachable if ZRA worked on melee, which there is no balance reason for it not to.

[UnLucky]

ZRA, WHA, SS, and everything Force/Techer should boost all damage. Which still wouldn't be as good as Fury Stance.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

I just don't want to accept being a mainstream build. I have a friend who uses Br/Fi fairly well enough; then again, not like I've seen others to compare with.

[gigawuts]

Don't worry about what's mainstream. Be an individual by doing what you actually want. If what you want happens to be the mainstream then so what? If you're trying to avoid the mainstream because you don't want to be told what to do, avoiding it is still letting it tell you what to do.

Do what you find fun, disregard others.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

Well, I like trying stuff that isn't the 'mainstream', and usually I end up liking it. I'll have to look more into the Fi/Fo stuff on my own, I suppose. I see the fire/ice trees only useful to the effect of shifta/deband, but that's as much as I've read into it

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I think you're missing something because shifta and deband are not only unaffected by anything in either the fire or ice tree (except casting speed) but S/D are (near) worthless only boosting/reducing damage by around 5% at lvl 16

[MetalDude]

Definitely try messing around with more experimental skills like any of the Ignitions and whatnot, but I seriously can't even recommend the S/D-boosting skills in any way whatsoever (maybe besides Deband Cut). If you want to experiment, do it in something that will give you lots of tools to mess with.

[Limbo_lag]

Don't worry about what's mainstream. Be an individual by doing what you actually want. If what you want happens to be the mainstream then so what? If you're trying to avoid the mainstream because you don't want to be told what to do, avoiding it is still letting it tell you what to do.

Do what you find fun, disregard others.

Within reason ^^;

While I agree for the most part about this, just make sure your damage isnt gimped to the point where it might hold back an entire MPA. Could mean the difference between, say, 2 or 3 runs of TD for everyone in your MPA.

[Geistritter]

My two cents, but you really shouldn't base your decisions on whether or not it's what the cool kids are doing. At the end of the day, being different just to be different is just going to make you feel weird or inadequate compared to everyone else. That applies to everything in life.

[Kondibon]

I agree with giga on this to a point. I do think there's worth in going out of your way to buck trends, if only to see why other people dislike it for yourself (theorycrafting is one thing, it's a whole other thing to try it personally). Or something like that.


Within reason ^^;

While I agree for the most part about this, just make sure your damage isnt gimped to the point where it might hold back an entire MPA. Could mean the difference between, say, 2 or 3 runs of TD for everyone in your MPA.As someone who runs TD with Giga... he's the last person who cares about that.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

So, with the skill tree resets, and the tech customization coming out, is there any hope for a Fi/Fo? And could someone run by me the Fo/Fi setup?

[SociableTyrannosaur]

It's in the build thread.

Also to answer your other question the issue with Fi/Fo isn't really available weapons or techs so much as it is that Fo does nothing to increase Fi damage. The end result is that Fi/Fo does mediocre melee damage and doesn't quite keep up with teching either. It's not bad at all if you have a green dual gaze or Brauluft, but a Fo/Fi would still be better for tech damage thanks to heretic saw or if you have it, Elysion.

Basically, Fi/Fo results in bad melee and very good teching. But you're basically trading out S rank tech ability for A rank and F rank Melee for D. For Fi/Fo to truly be viable Fo needs to be able to contribute to melee damage and nothing crafting will offer is going to change any of that. Every weapon you upgrade to make one side of your setup better another setup could have that same weapon/PA tweaked the same way and be proportionately more productive with it.

If you want to play Fi/Fo then dont let us stop you, but the only people who can fix the biggest flaws with it are sega.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

I'd give you an internet cookie just for your name.

And back to topic, what other types could a Fo be a contributing sub for? A friend of mine was talking about Br/Fo, but, I think it would be the same position as Fi/Fo.

If you noticed earlier, I did mention something to Fi/Gu, which, some of the Gu skills could contribute to Fi, but, again, I'm told otherwise (not necessarily on here), and that I would have a really low hp pool
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Also, was the point of Fi/Fo to buff melee or wasn't it initially for something different altogether

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Well the problem is Fo's skills are all tech oriented, there's really nothing they offer that isn't meant for that purpose aside from PP up. Br/Fo is very much like Fi/Fi but potential DPS vs bosses may be a bit higher due to Vibras Bow and Banishing Arrow. Aside from that, it's got the same flaws.

i did notice your mention of Fi/Gu and I'd commented then that I really wish that combination was better because I would love to feel good about that mix of DSes and TMGs, but while Attack PP Restore and perfect keeper and even chain trigger do help Fi, the two ZRAs do not and overall damage will be lower than Gu/Hu. It's far and away from the worst possible setup though. if you want to try it, by all means, I just feel the damage potential is a bit low.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

So, I'll take Fi/Gu into consideration, it seems doable still. And, what of the tech customization coming in this next maint? Think that would make any difference for a Fi/Fo? Maybe not boost melee damage, but I was under the impression that it was supposed to be a decent mix of the two

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Fi/Fo was an ok mix before Hu got its buffs, now Fi/Fo falls way behind where it counts: bosses.

Tech damage will still be good with Fi/Fo but then the conversation turns to "why not just run Fo/Fi?" Like I said the issue isn't with tech damage it's the melee side that will suffer. Bosses can't be SEd so chase advance wont apply. All you have is basic fighter stances for 44-69% extra damage which sounds great until you realize that subbing fo instead of Hu effectively cuts your melee damage potential by over 50%. This makes your melee damage pale in comparison to Fi/Hu or Br/Hu and still cuts your tech damage down a bit from weapon selection (which may not be an issue for long) and slightly lower tech stats. Being able to melee becomes a novelty but not a benefit. You'll be a hindrance to your team when doing EQs or anything else that's timed if you decide to melee.

Tech customization in the end wont amount to anything. all teching classes will see the same options for growth, so there's really nothing to sway things in Fi/Fo's favor. If Fi/Fo can get their sazan to do twice the damage it does now, every other teching class can too so everyone shifts in that direction rather than Fi/Fo getting something exclusive.

Another glaring problem is being able to actually equip weapons. Because you're not getting much in the way of S Atk from FO, your S atk will be fairly low and require you to invest quite a bit in S atk on your mag. This will also take away from the teching weapons you have access to which will cut down your damage potential on the force side. Granted you could avoid splitting a mag that and go with lower end gear but that would just make your melee damage suffer more. And while you could use the crafting system to make a weaker Fi weapon stronger, Fi/Hu gets to make the stronger weapons even stronger still, widening that damage gap.

For instance:

A tricked out Eternal Heat getting its current stats x2 (I'm not sure how much the extends will boost the stats in the end, but 2 is an easy number to work with) would have 1196 S atk, but a Langritter with its S Atk doubled would have 1520 S atk and Fi/Hu would be getting a 220% damage mod in addition to Fi's 44-69 to boot. Similarly, if DSes, knuckles and TDs get twice their current stats, then Fi/Fo will do better damage with melee than they do now, but even if you did have the exact same weapons as a Fi/Hu, you're still doing less than half their damage thanks to fury stance. And if you did find a way to make your PAs do more damage and cost less PP, Fi/Hu has access to that too.

Basically with everything that we can expect to see from crafting, a Fi/Fo will still come up very short when it comes to melee and the more you try to correct it, the more your tech damage will suffer.

[Inazuma]

FO/FI and FO/BR have massive PP related problems. TE not only helps a lot with PP, but it boosts wind techs a lot too. FI and BR just aren't good FO subclasses anymore. Back when all the elements were decently balanced, there were times when FI and BR were good subclasses, but the game has changed since then.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

I guess, for the time being, I'll fiddle with Fi/Gu. Even if ZRA doesn't help with the melee aspects. So, from all I have been reading, Br/Hu is the definite 'build' if one is to main a braver? The only reason I wanted to avoid braver is because of the katana...and they're pretty op; and to make sense out of it, it's because I would get sucked into using katanas.

What about he Techer type? I read it's a melee type of deal, using wand lovers?

[GALEFORCE]

Bow only br/hu or br/ra is pretty hipster if you want to go that route.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

I would try to use both katana and bow, on a braver, but that can be saved for another time

[Ratazana]

Are you playing solo? FI/GU sounds like fun.

With your friends? Joining MPAs? Are you okay doing pitiful damage while everyone around you pulverize whole waves with a single PA? You will probably be just running after people barely tagging stuff. Sure, FI/GU.

Just grab a sexy swimwear, some dances and sexy actions and you will have people willing to carry your FI/GU anywhere.

[Akuno Ayanokoji]

I see katanas do that already...
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Guess mainstream builds is the only way to go, from the feedback I've been reading, cuz apparently a 'lot' of people care about doing things fast in regards to damage

[Sandmind]

I see katanas do that already...
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Guess mainstream builds is the only way to go, from the feedback I've been reading, cuz apparently a 'lot' of people care about doing things fast in regards to damage

Mainstream is better for your main character's class combo. But experimenting with other combo when alone or with a like minded party is alright.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

It's really an EQ thing. If you're NOt going with a build designed for high speed you could be the reason a group doesn't get a 3rd run of TD in or something. Even if you do get in that 3rd run, it would have just been a matter of others carrying you with certain builds.

Personally I like wrecking things and seeing how fast waves can be obliterated, so it works out, but seeing as even my Fo/Te can't get the job done when she's geared for high speed mobbing is kinda ridiculous