So what's the Fighter meta like these days?

[HeyItsTHK]

FI/HU get some nice twin daggers and Bloody S everything?

[IndigoNovember]

Also get some nice Knuckles and Backhand Smash things. Getting some nice Double Sabers and Deadly Archer things that don't like Backhand Smash.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

This seems so familiar...

[Arksenth]

Symphonic Drive Lv.16 is reportedly supposed to out-DPS both Deadly Archer and Backhand Smash

[TaigaUC]

1. Re-roll as Braver.
2. Score.

I played my 61/56 Fighter for some matterboard stuff yesterday.
Felt weak as shit. Don't know why. Took around 8 Backhand Smashes to kill Ringarda in the story quest via his exposed weak point.
Then I did the same battle with my Gu/Hus and killed Ringarda in one Messiah Time.

[HeyItsTHK]

Already got 65 Braver, have 60 hunter, (and 50 fighter and 56 gunner and 31 ranger and 28 force for what it's worth).

I'm not looking for optimal efficiency, I'm looking to mix things up.

[Terrence]

I'm not looking for optimal efficiency, I'm looking to mix things up.
Finally someone who understand simple things. Bravo ! =) I totally agree. If not, I wouldn't be playing FIghter/TEcher...

[IndigoNovember]

Symphonic Drive Lv.16 is reportedly supposed to out-DPS both Deadly Archer and Backhand Smash

I like the sounds of this, will test later.

[gigawuts]

I don't know if Symphonic drive is better paper DPS, but it tends to be better real DPS. It's precise, it tracks, and it has a nice bit of AOE - plus it has a novel ability to hit the weak point even if you miss (like how additional bullet tends to prioritize headshots, even on some enemies that are facing away from you - SD will hit the weakest point in its small AOE).

[Husq]

I don't know if Symphonic drive is better paper DPS, but it tends to be better real DPS.
Pretty much. For moving targets or hitting weakspots symphonic drive is really good, like breaking the backparts of those gorudorada or boss parts such as quartz's wings in MPAs. Bloody sarabande is probably the PA of choice to clear mobs that are either stationary or enemies moving towards you, as it doesn't send them flying away. Just jump into a pack and you can get rid off them in one or two PAs. Having said that if you use bloody sarabande after other PAs like shoot polka or raging walz you can get more use out of it.
Nevertheless PAs like backhand smash, straight charge, quake howling are still useful. If you run XQ, backhand smash is one of the PA, as fighter, that you want to have in your setup, as it is one of those PAs does huge one hit damage instantly, and depending on stage clearing condition you might have to use it. Same with deadly archer if you have something like DS legacy with status effect on it, it can come in handy.
But if you know what you are doing, all fighter weapons and their PAs are still deadly. For example if you use fake capture or rumbling moon on a garongo you can flip them and apply deadly archer onto their weak spot.

[HeartBreak301]

Symphonic Drive Lv.16 is reportedly supposed to out-DPS both Deadly Archer and Backhand Smash

This is false. Backhand Smash is the highest DPS in the game by FAR. Deadly Archer is stronger as well but Symphonic Drive can hit pretty much any target where the other two can't.

[MetalDude]

If you can sustain BHS multiple times, it's better overall given you can consecutively hit your target.

I find that every FI weapon has a sort of niche now which makes the class a hell of a lot more fun to play. There's a time and place for Deadly Archer, Symphonic Drive, and Backhand Smash; Pao Nerian especially gives knuckles a priority to certain situations when you need Wise Stance. Then just pick up a strong FI-compatible sword, use Ride Slasher for mobbing, and you're good to go.

[gigawuts]

It depends, really. If you're in position for BHS it's the bees' knees.

Problem is, some hitboxes don't cooperate (some are too low and the BHS hitbox goes over them, other hitboxes will push the player away and make BHS miss, etc.). Not to mention some hitboxes are completely unreachable, and others only have a split second window of opportunity and that brief windup animation lets the enemy get away. That higher PP cost also means you'd better have 135 PP or more if you want to actually maximize your damage while you're PP dumping. If you're dumping from max PP with less than 135 PP, only one of your two consecutive BHS will get a PP Slayer buff before you have to start slapping things to get more PP. These are minor issues, with split second differences, but depending on what we're talking about it can matter.

Symphonic Drive faces none of these issues and can get a reasonable amount of damage out in a pretty short time, even on things that BHS can never hope to reach.

Which is why you have 6 palette slots: Use both.

[otaku998]

Now if only Hu isn't so good as a sub, i wouldn't mind going Fi/Br. or Br/Fi.

[Lumpen Thingy]

Symphonic Drive Lv.16 is reportedly supposed to out-DPS both Deadly Archer and Backhand Smash

its a good dagger pa but lol no

[kabutozero]

its a good dagger pa but lol no

Unless I charge DA , my stones dagger with 50 ice element beats my BKB 50 thunder element with symphonic drive to falz hand ass , not counting the mobility that PA has

[Dugs]

So I saw on someone's sig that apparently using a Nishiki, whether as a FI or anything else makes someone sub-human trash and am doing immense harm to others making it unplayable for them.

And yet does not explain why. Are they secretly glitched in such a way it causes the game to crash for other people? Or is it some form of stupid elitism that means "Of course you are trash, you should punch to move faster in your dashing! Using that crap will make others do so, making everyone worse!"?

[MetalDude]

For some odd reason, they cause lag on switch-in and IIRC even during use which can directly affect players around you. I don't remember the specifics.

[Bellion]

If you were able to spam BHS/DA/SD infinitely on an immobile enemy; BHS>DA>SD. Even if SD can hit higher damage per PA compared to an uncharged DA, it has a bit of delay which DA does not.

Nishiki and T-reaping are the most commonly used weapons for multistepping because they're all class and daggers are the best to multistep with. Any time you switch to either of those two, you may cause frame drops for another individual or when loading into an area with them.

It's not just those daggers, though. Guld Milla and the other 11* DF Elder weapons can drop frames but the level of frame drops is lower than that of a Nishiki. I can probably make a list of most weapons that cause these problems.

[TaigaUC]

I'd probably enjoy fighter a lot more if they removed the stances, or at least made them a quick switch instead of stupid fist-pumping.
Such a simple solution constantly stares them in the face, but what we'll probably end up with is a 200% damage boost to stances when shocked, or some other bizarre condition that makes no sense.

Inb4 weather-based skills (like the latents).
500% damage when raining!
-1000% damage when snowing!

[Rakurai]

They ought to have some kind of status ailment that can be applied to all enemies for the sake of making Chase Advance applicable in more situations.

I can only hope that maybe they'll introduce some debuffing techs in the future or something. Then you could at least get a damage boost as FI/TE or if the FOs and/or TEs in the vicinity are smart enough to inflict the enemies with it.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah I've said that as well. Some kind of Fighter status ailment inflicting PA.
Apparently that idea is beyond SEGA's comprehension.
"A melee class with a status inflicting attack!? Go see Dudu!"

[HeartBreak301]

They ought to have some kind of status ailment that can be applied to all enemies for the sake of making Chase Advance applicable in more situations.

I can only hope that maybe they'll introduce some debuffing techs in the future or something. Then you could at least get a damage boost as FI/TE or if the FOs and/or TEs in the vicinity are smart enough to inflict the enemies with it.

It's called put burn and poison on your weapons, it's not that hard. Alternatively you could stun things with Stun Concido or Quake Howling if you're really desperate for status effects.

[TaigaUC]

It is hard if you're not rich and lucky.
And it's still random luck based, which is stupid.
There's no satisfaction (or player skill) in a weapon SOMETIMES inflicting a status debuff.

[gigawuts]

They ought to have some kind of status ailment that can be applied to all enemies for the sake of making Chase Advance applicable in more situations.

I can only hope that maybe they'll introduce some debuffing techs in the future or something. Then you could at least get a damage boost as FI/TE or if the FOs and/or TEs in the vicinity are smart enough to inflict the enemies with it.

Yeah, I've been thinking exactly this as well. There's a few things they could do, but I'd especially love seeing them allow Jellen & Zalure to count for Chase (Jellen being on Ranger's skilltree), add Zalure as an effect inflicted by Hunter's War Cry, and then give Fighter a way to apply Injury to enemies like Hunar can to players. The problem here is Zalure would probably come from a skill, which would be buried beneath about 2 billion sp reqs.

Injury would prevent enemies from healing over x% of their max hp just like it does on players, except that wouldn't actually matter 99% of the time and it'd just be a way to trigger Chase (unless the enemy has the hp steal infection point).

All of this instead of stupid skills like +10% damage against breakable parts for 10sp (which will almost definitely be beneath Crazy Beat).

[HeartBreak301]

It is hard if you're not rich and lucky.
And it's still random luck based, which is stupid.
There's no satisfaction (or player skill) in a weapon SOMETIMES inflicting a status debuff.

Burn I is pretty cheap. If you're building chase there's no excuse for you not to have status weapons. If you're not going to do it you may as well build PP slayer instead.

[Shinmarizu]

I think allowing Jellen and Zalure to count for Chase will be the best thing Fighter can get... short of an alternate way of applying Jellen and Zalure.

Hell, you'd think techniques for applying debuffs much like PSO1 would have been a thing by now. But that's another topic.

For me, Gwana+Poison 3 is plenty for a melee weapon. That's usually my standard. You can also use Vol+Burn 3 / Quartz+Panic 3.

[Husq]

I never tried it myself, because I don't have any spare resets left, but does Shifta and Deband work with Crazy Beat and Crazy Heart?

[gigawuts]

Nope, they don't. Only adverse status effects inflicted by enemies or the environment.

I'm still waiting on a weapon with a latent to self-inflict poison here.

[cheapgunner]

Nope, they don't. Only adverse status effects inflicted by enemies or the environment.

I'm still waiting on a weapon with a latent to self-inflict poison here.

Would have been wonderful if the Vol weapons had higher chance for burn or instant lv 1/2 burn on them.

[Shinmarizu]

You mean a built-in special effect? Like what PSO1, or older, old-school RPGs used to have on rare weapons?

*deep nostalgic sigh*

That'll be the day. The best we have is a second latent we have to switch to, and regrind.

[gigawuts]

PSO: A journey from Weapons That Do Things to Barbies In Space

[Shinmarizu]

PSO: A journey from Weapons That Do Things to Barbies In Space

Dear god I could complain about this all freaking day, and then maybe redesign the game while we're at it. And this is just the weapons.

But yeah, Barbies, some Robots, and some Barbie-bots in Space. (looks at sig, notes irony)

[gigawuts]

Hey, I am definitely not complaining about the Barbie-bots.

I just want Weapons That Do Things to make a comeback is all.

[Shinmarizu]

Preaching to the choir.

This is why I'm keeping my Holy Ray. That's the closest it freaking gets.

EDIT: I'm not complaining either. I like all those things. See the sig?

[UnLucky]

What do you mean? Some weapons totally do drop with a guaranteed affix.

You know, those inconsequential attributes that have a 20% chance to transfer if you so much as breath at your new trash rare?

[Shinmarizu]

Aren't those the same weapons that people overwrite with Mizer/Shoot 3/Shoot Boost/Ability 3 all the time?

[Geistritter]

To hell with Barbie-bots. My robot lady doesn't have breasts; she has an Armored Core.

Male Casts are where the true glory lies either way. The bigger, fatter, and more robotic, the better.

Potentials are what was likely intended to replace the PSO special attacks, but just having a passive that came with the weapon without any suffering would be nice. We've got a lot more fundamental work to be done on this thing before we can start lobbying for the nitpicks, though.

[Enforcer MKV]

To hell with Barbie-bots. My robot lady doesn't have breasts; she has an Armored Core.

Male Casts are where the true glory lies either way. The bigger, fatter, and more robotic, the better.


Amen, brother.

Oo-rah!

[Shinmarizu]

@Geistritter: I like diversity. That is all.

This would apply to skills and latents as well. All these damage modifier latents are seriously growing stale.

[TaigaUC]

Casts and Caseals can look pretty damn cool.


Burn I is pretty cheap. If you're building chase there's no excuse for you not to have status weapons. If you're not going to do it you may as well build PP slayer instead.

It doesn't matter if Burn I is cheap when getting to 3 slots and having the necessary fodder at 3 slots is not pretty cheap. More slots means more chance of failure, too.
I just gave my mag Foie instead.

[gigawuts]

To hell with Barbie-bots. My robot lady doesn't have breasts; she has an Armored Core.I really don't see why she can't have both.


Male Casts are where the true glory lies either way. The bigger, fatter, and more robotic, the better.Yes.


Potentials are what was likely intended to replace the PSO special attacks, but just having a passive that came with the weapon without any suffering would be nice. We've got a lot more fundamental work to be done on this thing before we can start lobbying for the nitpicks, though.

This is the ultimate problem with latents - they're always on. Always. Al. Ways.

The fucking Guld Milla is the most OP piece of shit in the game. I love it. I mean, I hate it, but while I have it I also love it. It's really the best example of why PSO1's special attack system was better, though, and why I hated PSU's system. Having HP steal for every single attack you do is horrible. The three attack options in PSO1 were the way to go. Normal = accurate, but meh damage. Power = more damage, less accurate. Special = does something unique, but way less accurate.

It was a tradeoff. You couldn't heal continuously and reliably. The way less accurate attack was worth it when you really needed to heal and positioned yourself relatively safely. The special was worth it when you wanted to crop a specific enemy's health by 75% or inflict freeze/paralysis/both at once. Tying these effects to every single attack without reduced accuracy? Oh my god no. Tying effects to every single attack that never misses? Oh my god what are you doing put down the game Sega.

And we all know it's only a matter of time until we get Demon and Hell specials. Inflicting -x% hp on attack and a chance to instantly kill everything but bosses...they're coming. Just you wait. When the game has nothing else to find, and they need something even more OP than mechguns that make you immortal for simply not missing enemies, they will be added.

[GreenArcher]

Casts and Caseals can look pretty damn cool.



It doesn't matter if Burn I is cheap when getting to 3 slots and having the necessary fodder at 3 slots is not pretty cheap. More slots means more chance of failure, too.
I just gave my mag Foie instead.

Three slots on a weapon is incredible cheap to do...

And if you are using chase advance then it would be more beneficial to just put Burn I on your weapon rather than worry about +30/+60 attack. Your argument is invalid.

[TaigaUC]

I guess it depends on your definition of "cheap".
It already costs me a fortune just to do 2 slots.

[Arksenth]

LOL

TWO SLOT WEAPONS

A FORTUNE

Seriously, how bad are you at this game?

[Kikikiki]

I spent probably around 5 million trying to expand a 10́*'s to 3 slots (with soul of course) on the +5% affix day.

Quite cheap, don't you think?

Yeah, no, even though I have premium and can make a decent amount of money (which I do), that is still some big cash running away from my pocket.

[TaigaUC]

Seriously, how bad are you at this game?
I'm as bad as the random number generator makes me.
Assuming random number generator somehow defines personal ability.

Pro tip: it doesn't.

I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic, because there are people who seriously believe that random number generator = skill.


Yeah, no, even though I have premium and can make a decent amount of money (which I do), that is still some big cash running away from my pocket.
Thank you.

The other thing nobody's mentioned is that Hunter and Fighter rely on multiple weapons. Not including Gunslash, that's 6 weapons if you're Hu/Fi or Fi/Hu.
Simple math: 6 x 5 million = 30 million. Still cheap? Not to me.
That's not even including the cost of purchasing or grinding all of those weapons.

Alternatively, you can just play Force, Braver or Gunner and only really need to affix one weapon to be super effective.
They don't even need the elemental damage affix, either.
Personally, I'm not a fan of melee classes requiring a fortune to gear up.

This is all still beside the point that skills shouldn't rely on random or bizarre conditions.

[gigawuts]

if you can 3slot a weapon with soul it only costs 2-3m more to finish soul/stat3/boostedSE with 100%/100%/100%

boostedSE being an SE with a boosted transfer rate by the soul, so burn 3 for vol, poison 3 for gwana, and panic 3 for quartz (but you probably know all this)

Honestly though? Most of my friends have SEs on their weapons. Even if I relied on Chase, which I did for a very long time, my friends' SEs covered my needs. Minibosses would be SE'd with SEs I didn't necessarily have, which would boost me just fine. Most trash mobs would die in 1 PA, making the SE completely unnecessary.

[Ordy]

I spent probably around 5 million trying to expand a 10́*'s to 3 slots (with soul of course) on the +5% affix day.

5 million ... seriously? affixing Mizer Soul or/and doing something wrong here >_>"

[Arksenth]

The other thing nobody's mentioned is that Hunter and Fighter rely on multiple weapons. Not including Gunslash, that's 6 weapons if you're Hu/Fi or Fi/Hu.
Simple math: 6 x 5 million = 30 million. Still cheap? Not to me.
That's not even including the cost of purchasing or grinding all of those weapons.


One, two slots should require less than 500k to do. Maybe 1m if you're super unlucky , at the very maximum 2m if you want a guaranteed shot at it.

Two, 30m is absolutely nothing in this game. I've spent more than that just on room items and music disks on the course of a single day and thought nothing of it.

Meseta is ridiculously easy to get in this game, and for anyone who thinks otherwise - it says more about your own gameplay than it does others.

[Kikikiki]

5 million ... seriously? affixing Mizer Soul or/and doing something wrong here >_>"

Surprisingly, it was Fang Soul.

I also used up all my 10% affixes (about 15 I think) and bought quite a load on player shop. Hell, I still remembered at some point I got pissed off it and took out 20 excubes, and it still failed. It succeeded at my last desperate attempt, using no boosters.

Quality RNG in a nutshell.

Edit: Also FYI affixing a 10* is usually 50k a pop off the affixing action alone.

[Bellion]

Failing the 50% or 60% dice roll 15 or so times? Welp. I probably wouldn't have 4s stuff if I had bad luck like that.

Well, you were adding the soul for a 50(or 60)/100/100 , right?

Edit: 5% from the boost is almost non-existent so, whatever.

[Kikikiki]

Failing the 50% or 60% dice roll 15 or so times? Welp. I probably wouldn't have 4s stuff if I had bad luck like that.

Well, you were adding the soul for a 50(or 60)/100/100 , right?

Yes, that was what I was trying to do.

[gigawuts]

Failing the 50% or 60% dice roll 15 or so times? Welp. I probably wouldn't have 4s stuff if I had bad luck like that.

Well, you were adding the soul for a 50(or 60)/100/100 , right?

Edit: 5% from the boost is almost non-existent so, whatever.

My longest streak is 16 fails for 50%/60%/100%. I kind of didn't Dudu for a long time after that. That was just a fodder too, I found what I was trying to make on the market later that day and was only out 8m for what should have been like a 1.6m fodder.

I'm highly tempted to 4slot my GM, but it's resting comfortably at fang/shock3/shoot3 and I'm terrified to touch it.

[Arksenth]

=|

You should have just kept it 5s and tried a fang soul affix then, and if it failed, tried again on the 4s.

It's not even like Fang Soul/Shoot III fodder is expensive for finishing it up, and you have extra slots to do whatever with too.

[gigawuts]

I am not paying for 5s fodders.

[Arksenth]

They're only like, 3-20m each, depending on if you're going for Ability III or not...

[gigawuts]

Exactly. 3m is what the whole affixing shabang cost, fodders and 20% booster and even affix fees included.

If you want to see a 5slot GM you can make one yourself and show it off to the class, though.

[Arksenth]

je refuse gunner

I'll gladly show you a 5s/6s/7s Elysion if it ever drops for me though.

[Shinmarizu]

Exactly. 3m is what the whole affixing shabang cost, fodders and 20% booster and even affix fees included.

If you want to see a 5slot GM you can make one yourself and show it off to the class, though.

Sounds about right; it took around 6m to bring my Elysion to +40, 4-slot. That included components for affixing and grinding I had to buy as well; I have a habit of making fodder and holding onto it for things like that.

If I had to buy everything costs would have been closer to 10m. Then again, grinding the Elysion wasn't as catastrophic as I thought it would be.

I simply work on level 1 weapons and subunits to build fodder, and wait for the RNG to pass good affix sets. The stuff you pick up in an MPA can get you pretty far, but RNG always has a hand to play in whether you can benefit from this. It also does not help that drops with souls appear much less frequently now.

Now, the unit market is stupid. Units are at least 2.5x as expensive as weapons.
Soul fodder is more expensive than Stat3 fodder; way back in H/VH, the reverse was true.

[gigawuts]

You should always include the value of used items you already had in your bank when talking about total cost.

[Shinmarizu]

I'm paranoid like that, so I look at prices of everything before I attempt work on a given weapon/unit. Kinda puts limits on what I want for the finished product.

But to think: 10m for an Elysion, when I hear horror stories like Dnd's (Nina's) GM. Mind you, that is a 5slot and terrible luck.

@giga: IMO your GM is fine as it is; I wouldn't worry about it.

[GALEFORCE]

I don't see the reason to affix shock onto weapons (aside from maybe melee). When does it ever do anything?

[gigawuts]

It makes enemies flinch 50% of the time they would have attacked, stuns elder falz, and I guess it can affect wolga.

Otherwise it's about as useful as any other SE, really. Considering I have zero PP issues my alternative was more HP, which is really why I'd 4slot it so.

[Arksenth]

Well, besides the typical DF usages, it's marginally useful on some bosses/mobs like Wolga or Wondas. But admittedly, the status effects are all kind of lackluster and not really that important in purpose.

Honestly, the only point I see for status effects, except possibly Poison for Dragon Bosses/Minibosses, is to activate Chase Advance. And for that, it'd make sense just to match Burn/Poison/Panic to whatever melee soul you're using for the transfer boost, otherwise it's too much of a chancey thing.

[gigawuts]

Panic is also very useful because it'll force enemies to attack the nearest target, which can be a boon for all classes. If you have two enemies, and they're .1 meters closer to eachother than to you, panicking one will force it to attack the other. This is also nice because projectiles that stop on impact will stop on an enemy, without penetrating and otherwise potentially hitting you.

Panic is exceptionally useful on wired lances for Other Spin spam, vacuuming enemies together and making them attack eachother instead of you.

Panic is also nice because it stuns Bibras and sets off friendly fire for Wolga and Gwana (Gwana going as far as vacuuming its own tentacles, making them easier for all classes to hit).

[Arksenth]

Hm, that's a fair point I guess. I might have to play around with this on my TE/FI; fortunately, Quartz Soul boosts transfer of both panic and tech, so I might substitute a stamina boost for panic on a wand or something.

it would be hilarious to zondeel a bunch of mobs together, whack them once, and watch them all kill each other with friendly fire wwww

[Shinmarizu]

I've been wanting to use Panic; perhaps this is the time to start. Quartz+Panic3 might be something I'd start making.

[GALEFORCE]

I always go for poison. I just love how it tears apart dragons. I just wish Vol Dragon were somehow affected by it. Like maybe just its tail and horns.

Although panic sounds nice on paper, I'm not sure how I'd feel about it as a fighter if it potentially makes enemies face away from you. Most of the time they'd probably die before it matters anyway though.

[Arksenth]

When Tech Customization comes around, I'll probably be speccing at least one tech of each line (maybe not Ice, though) to increase status affliction chance for Chase Advance. Really brings down those minibosses fast, especially solo.

[GALEFORCE]

I would be really interested in boosting freeze rate and running freeze keep if tech customization has real improvements on the infliction rates.

[gigawuts]

When Tech Customization comes around, I'll probably be speccing at least one tech of each line (maybe not Ice, though) to increase status affliction chance for Chase Advance. Really brings down those minibosses fast, especially solo.

This is good to hear. A few techs already lend themselves well to applying SEs, even seeming like it's their purpose. Gizan for instance hits like 6 times for a teeny tiny amount of damage, but a relatively high SE application rate. Nabarta is another fairly good SE tech (rabarta would be if it wasn't also the highest damage ice tech).

[Arksenth]

Never liked Freeze because it's so incompatible with Zondeel, though. I hate it when an Ice FO runs around and freezes all the mobs I was planning to suction together, so there's a bunch that now have to be taken down one-by-one instead of together with the rest of them.

[GALEFORCE]

Rabarta-ing first then zondeeling could work. If something is in range to be frozen then they'll still be taking damage. If they get sucked in, they get pulled in range to take damage+get frozen.

[Shinmarizu]

I've been waiting for ways to improve the non-damage effects of certain techniques for a long time. This might be the answer. Please, Sega, do this right.

[gigawuts]

If you don't have Freeze Keep then the Freeze SE is more trouble than it's worth most of the time, but on certain enemies it's definitely nice. With Freeze Keep it becomes very useful in many cases, like against Org Blans or Catadrans.

[Arksenth]

Rabarta-ing first then zondeeling could work. If something is in range to be frozen then they'll still be taking damage. If they get sucked in, they get pulled in range to take damage+get frozen.

=|

The point of Zondeel is to center mobs into a single point for follow-up with a strong strike that lacks substantial AoE, whether from yourself or from someone else in your party/MPA.

If you can kill them with a single Rabarta, there's no point in Zondeeling, since they're all dying without the follow-up Zondeel strike anyway.

If you can't kill them with a single Rabarta, there's no point in Rabartaing before Zondeel because it just means that a bunch of mobs within the Zondeel-Rabarta overlap are going to get frozen, not get killed by the Zondeel follow-up strike, and stay as scattered ice cubes that now need to be individually pursued and killed again.

If you're detonating Zondeel in SH, you're a trash player and need to go think hard about your skill tree build.

Possible exception: PSE Bursts, but even then there's a strong argument for not detonating Zondeel if you have non-teching classes in your party/MPA.

[GALEFORCE]

You don't need to freeze every enemy ever just because you can. The point of freeze keep is to lock down dangerous enemies that don't die instantly like predicahda swarms. I would love to make icicles out of cyclos and garongo too (and maybe sorcerors, but I don't know how they work with freeze).

[Arksenth]

> uncharged razan

There we go.

[gigawuts]

Sorcerers are hilarious with freeze. Their little tatk revolving pillar attack will actually stop mid-animation when they're frozen. Actually, all enemy attacks will lock when you freeze them. Even moon atomizers used by a player will halt when the player is frozen.

I still think Freeze should apply a 5% vulnerability to satk, ratk, and all elements. That kicks in weak stance, weak hit advance, and element weak hit.

[cheapgunner]

Would be lovely if tech customization allowed more than 1 SE on a tech. Like Sazan or Gigrants given stun.

[Arksenth]

I would be happy if they let Nazan have something good with this Tech Customization update. Really, it's the perfect tech to make bossing interesting on a melee TE, it's sad that it's just so not worth using.

[gigawuts]

Nazan is a tech that should just have -100% charge time innately.

[Arksenth]

:wacko:

I would be fine with giving it the damage of BHS.

Prep your moons for the FOs now then.

[cheapgunner]

:wacko:

I would be fine with giving it the damage of BHS.

Prep your moons for the FOs now then.

lol. Giving it soemthing like 2500+ base power would be crazy good. That and boost nabarta's (the ice flamethrower?) power up a bit as well.

[Shinmarizu]

That would have been something worthwhile for a LV16 powerspike, but they gave it to Sazan instead.

It's sad that Sega has to break certain things this way. Now we're going to try and improve Nazan ourselves, while everyone else goes to improve Sazan while screaming at us that we're wasting our time.

Nazan is at the bottom of the mountain, and Sazan is at the top...:wacko:

I may have mentioned elsewhere, but would Sega even dream of adjusting numerical values downward for once?

[GALEFORCE]

lol. Giving it soemthing like 2500+ base power would be crazy good. That and boost nabarta's (the ice flamethrower?) power up a bit as well.

What puzzles me is how nabarta's hit rate is so slowwwww. It's an ice flamethrower. Why does it hit only like once per second?

[UnLucky]

I may have mentioned elsewhere, but would Sega even dream of adjusting numerical values downward for once?

RIP Zonde

[TaigaUC]

For a laugh, try using Na Barta with minimum PP cost and watch as it takes all your PP and immediately deactivates itself before getting a single hit in.


Maybe 1m if you're super unlucky , at the very maximum 2m

I'd say 500k to 1m is the usual I have to spend for a 2 slot.


30m is absolutely nothing in this game.
Meseta is ridiculously easy to get in this game, and for anyone who thinks otherwise - it says more about your own gameplay than it does others.

See, so you prove my point that it's relative.
It's super easy to get money if you're spending lots of AC, or if you're lucky (which I am not).
And I think that a player's ability is more questionable if they're spending enough real life money to think that 30m is nothing.

Just because you're rich doesn't mean it's easy for anyone else to make money. You're not Oprah Winfrey, are you?
According to this poll, only around 10% of the people who voted would consider 30m to be absolutely nothing.
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211522
You can't honestly be trying to suggest that the other 90% must all be bad players.

It's also not worth spending 30m on items that become obsolete before you can get enough use out of them.
I dunno about you, but I try to consider how much I'm going to get out of what I purchase compared to how much time I spent earning it, as well as what else I could've been doing in that same period of time.

I'm surprised you weren't being sarcastic.
I thought you were better than that. I guess I was wrong.


Failing the 50% or 60% dice roll 15 or so times? Welp. I probably wouldn't have 4s stuff if I had bad luck like that.

I seem to often fail anywhere between 75% to 90% multiple times in a row.


Never liked Freeze because it's so incompatible with Zondeel, though.

Yeah. And those idiots who still keep setting off Zondeel so that enemies can run right out of it and destroy towers.


Even moon atomizers used by a player will halt when the player is frozen.

Yeah. All effects freeze with along with the parent. It's lazy coding.

[Arksenth]

I keep saying, I never spend a cent of real life money on this game. So maybe 90% of players suck at making meseta and want to make whiny excuses about needing AC. Not my problem.

[gigawuts]

he's doing it again, isn't he? that thing where internet money is a commodity he values enough to act like people with less of it are lesser entities?

[MetalDude]

It's an old gimmick at this point. I wish he'd just stick to normal, tolerable posting instead of being a condescending little shit.

[UnLucky]

It's pretty tiring now since even in his own terms the amounts he's belittling are still sizeable.

"It's easy to make that much in a month, get like me"

Yeah if upgrading my equipment means pouring all my active game time into farming meseta then I'd still rather go with a cheaper alternative.

I'm currently sitting on around 150m and I'd never consider spending 20m+ on a single piece of gear that will be outclassed next month.

[Kikikiki]

Just because you're rich doesn't mean it's easy for anyone else to make money.

This is true.


I dunno about you, but I try to consider how much I'm going to get out of what I purchase compared to how much time I spent earning it, as well as what else I could've been doing in that same period of time.

This is also true. Taking in account that I don't always re-activate premium when it goes out, I have to consider making the best I can get out of that 30-day. Okay, an occasional 29$ may not mean much to me (or some certain individuals, but that I don't care), but when it's spent as a form of virtual currency (specifically, on online games), that is lost money. There's no refund. That's why I would want to, at the very least, get back an amount of certain satisfaction by spending my money effectively.


It's pretty tiring now since even in his own terms the amounts he's belittling are still sizeable.

Yeah, didn't he say somewhere that he received donations from his friends instead of paying out of his own pocket? I can't be assed to go look for it, but some people around here would probably remember. Yet he still goes on and on and brag about it like it's actually his own money, which is stupid as sin. I actually think that he's oblivious of the consequences of his actions, that it seems like he's so in denial he needs therapy.

[EvilMag]

I may have mentioned elsewhere, but would Sega even dream of adjusting numerical values downward for once?
They'll never nerf shit again due to the huge shitstorm when Zonde got nerfed.

[gigawuts]

Yeah if upgrading my equipment means pouring all my active game time into farming meseta then I'd still rather go with another game

fixed

Anyway, yes. I measure investment worth based on how long I'll have something, or what I project future prices to be. My satk units get a fairly decent investment. My multiclass weapons do too. But my single-class weapons? If they're not my go-to weapon they're not getting a huge investment. They can deal with being 3% weaker.

Amusingly, as much as we knock on cosmetics in this game, they're the one thing that retain value in the long term. They're the one thing Sega doesn't take away from us by adding a new item with +1 atk and a better latent. My dances and hats are just as good as they were when I bought them and, for the most part, have only gone up in cost. Between the time I've already had and used them, and the time I'm going to continue to have and use them, they're worth the investment far more than a weapon I'll only use for 2 months. They may do periodic revivals, but that's why you buy items when they're new and not when they're 6 months old with 10x the going rate they had at their release.

[Arksenth]

Amusingly, as much as we knock on cosmetics in this game, they're the one thing that retain value in the long term. They're the one thing Sega doesn't take away from us by adding a new item with +1 atk and a better latent. My dances and hats are just as good as they were when I bought them and, for the most part, have only gone up in cost. Between the time I've already had and used them, and the time I'm going to continue to have and use them, they're worth the investment far more than a weapon I'll only use for 2 months. They may do periodic revivals, but that's why you buy items when they're new and not when they're 6 months old with 10x the going rate they had at their release.

It's not an either-or thing. I have this habit of buying every popular accessory ever even though I know it'll clip terribly, I'll never use it, and isn't even suited for my character just for collection's sake.

You can buy the dances and the accessories AND top-line gear, y'know.

[gigawuts]

Not without enough money you can't.

[jcart953]

I'm kind of baffled at how people are having such issues 3slotting a weapon. I mean 5mil ???? Come on now, 3 slot and under should be easy , 4slot plus now that's where things start to get pricey.

In regards to the topic not sure what else fighters can do different then they did before. DA, BHS,etc etc.

@SE topic yeah they defly need to add something g better for fighter to utilize those crappy skills

[Shinmarizu]

Not without enough money you can't.

Exactly.

And this relates to how much time a given player invests in playing this game to accumulate meseta. People invest time in this game in different ways. Yes, I do get jealous once in a while that someone has this shiny weapon or that accessory. But then I figure out what I'd need to do to get that thing for myself:

a) Spend AC: there's one RNG, plus whatever selling price crap AC items go for if you didn't get what you wanted. And Sega is making it statistically harder to get one item in a given rotation, simply by flooding it with un-recolourable costumes (6 colour schemes), 17 variations of 16 other costumes and revival items. Quantity over quality/originality for the most part.
b) Fodder: making fodder requires RNG for the drops, and RNG again for the affixing. Costs are minimal, but time is a factor, especially if you're farming for loot yourself. Not to mention market prices are prone to fits of utter chaos.
c) TACOs: requires time. Fastest, but gets real boring eventually.
d) Selling rares/valuables: RNG again, but this can be tied to regular gameplay, fodder and market.

So, the multi-millionaires here have sunk considerable amounts of time or real money (in any combination) to get to where they are. And then they can amass their opulent wares, the 20mill weapons with soul/stat 3/SE 3/ability 3/stat boost, or whatever.

I do not have that much time, nor do I wish to sink more money than what is required for premium. And I don't count on having a super-valuable rare drop at my feet for financial stability. Whatever is within my means, I obtain.

What does this mean for topic? My rares are not always top-tier. I settle for soul/SE3/PP affixes now. Skill tree is either Chase or PP Slayer (can't really have good amounts of both yet).

Thankfully, Fighter is a relatively straightforward class.


I'm kind of baffled at how people are having such issues 3slotting a weapon. I mean 5mil ???? Come on now, 3 slot and under should be easy , 4slot plus now that's where things start to get pricey.

In regards to the topic not sure what else fighters can do different then they did before. DA, BHS,etc etc.

@SE topic yeah they defly need to add something g better for fighter to utilize those crappy skills

Increasing slots means more money and more fodder items in order to improve your rates. Best case scenario from 2-slot to 3-slot is 34% without boosters. Then you pray that the super-fodder (soul/stat3/- or whatever) is either in your hands already, or is priced reasonably enough on the player shops. As well as the 20% affix booster which you got either by paying 1.2m or recycling crap AC goods. You're paying either way.

As for playstyle, nothing has changed at all aside from "Ooh! This PA has power spikes at 16? SPAM IT"

Goddamn it I want a streamlined skill tree system.

[SakoHaruo]

I'm currently sitting on around 150m .

Unlucky D:

I'll be your slave for 20% of that :D

[Ratazana]

Seriously people? No, you do not need to waste hours farming or spam the AC scratch to get rich.

How to get rich (for dummies)

1. Buy lots of Rough Twin Tails for 5m each.
2. Wait 4~6 months.
3. Sell for 30m.

Come on, this is not rocket science. Everyone knows that scratch items will be worth way more in a couple of months.

[Arksenth]

Poor people will always find excuses for being poor, Ratazana.

Why are you even surprised?

[Geistritter]

It's best to just ignore Arksenth when he gets like that. Kinda like a teenaged parrot; when he starts being a little shit and biting everyone for no reason, you just put him in his cage and pretend he isn't there until he starts making you laugh fucking with the dog by calling its name again. Getting mad at him just tires you out.

[Limbo_lag]

Seriously people? No, you do not need to waste hours farming or spam the AC scratch to get rich.

How to get rich (for dummies)

1. Buy lots of Rough Twin Tails for 5m each.
2. Wait 4~6 months.
3. Sell for 30m.

Come on, this is not rocket science. Everyone knows that scratch items will be worth way more in a couple of months.

As much as I agree that this is a good way to make money.....man is it a bad time when people are willing to drop that much on an obviously flipped accessory. This is why the market is so messed up :/ Take the likes of excalibur or power/shooting boost items, for example. Prices will be bad as long as people keep buying them at ridiculous prices :-?

[milranduil]

As much as I agree that this is a good way to make money.....man is it a bad time when people are willing to drop that much on an obviously flipped accessory. This is why the market is so messed up :/ Take the likes of excalibur or power/shooting boost items, for example. Prices will be bad as long as people keep buying them at ridiculous prices :-?

Do people have any other choice though? Nope! Simple supply and demand for you given how stupid any of those are to obtain (AC onry).

[BIG OLAF]

It's best to just ignore Arksenth when he gets like that. Kinda like a teenaged parrot; when he starts being a little shit and biting everyone for no reason, you just put him in his cage and pretend he isn't there until he starts making you laugh fucking with the dog by calling its name again. Getting mad at him just tires you out.

Well, anyone who has frequented Bumped in the past however many months knows how Arksenth (AKA "Conspire") operates.

But, yeah, he's like Zipzo Jr.

[gigawuts]

Except he only has one string on his harp to pluck.

He's more like Sako - he keeps repeating the same thing thinking while trying to stifle his own laughter over how much of a genius troll he is when in reality he's just typing the same words over and over and nobody really has anything else to say because it's all been said before, and that's assuming there was anything worth saying to begin with.

I mean, we all had that "repeat the same dumb shit thinking we're winning an argument" phase. When we were twelve. I grew out of mine pretty quickly. He could probably do well at Fox News though.

[SakoHaruo]

I'm hugging my pillow tight while rolling all over the bed, I can't control it! nice to know you're still a crow and a fucking scrub o3o

btw what is this thread about?

[gigawuts]

Another person for the list of people whose existence I validate.

[SakoHaruo]

so that's what this entire thread is about? OKAY!

[The Walrus]

Wait so Ark is Conspire?

This kind of explains a lot. A whole lot. Alot even.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

It wasn't obvious?

[Coatl]

Soooo about Fighter meta.

Dat backhand.

[TaigaUC]

I thought Ark was Conspire too.

Anyway, I tried to create the soul + power 3 + burn/whatever affic combination that everyone says is super easy and cheap.
Used +5% or +10% on every attempt. Non-stop failures.
Most of the failures were from trying to make simple fodder.
One of the target weapons repeatedly reset to 0 slots.
Blew over 2.5 million (not including +% items), which is a lot for 1 star and 8 star weapons.
Mostly failed at 70% or higher values. Several 80% and 90% failures too.
If the low values succeeded the high ones always failed.

Doesn't seem that easy to me.

I couldn't get a 1 star from 3 slots to 4 slots either. Failed at least 10 times.
Even if I wasn't wasting much money, it was still a huge waste of time.

[milranduil]

I thought Ark was Conspire too.

Anyway, I tried to create the soul + power 3 + burn/whatever affic combination that everyone says is super easy and cheap.
Used +5% or +10% on every attempt. Non-stop failures.
Most of the failures were from trying to make simple fodder.
One of the target weapons repeatedly reset to 0 slots.
Blew over 2.5 million (not including +% items), which is a lot for 1 star and 8 star weapons.
Mostly failed at 70% or higher values. Several 80% and 90% failures too.
If the low values succeeded the high ones always failed.

Doesn't seem that easy to me.

I couldn't get a 1 star from 3 slots to 4 slots either. Failed at least 10 times.
Even if I wasn't wasting much money, it was still a huge waste of time.

This is why I farm tacos/AQ fodder/(and now crafting mats) for meseta and just buy made fodder with 20% affix booster. I don't ability 3 stuff, so guaranteed 100% as soon as I can get soul onto whatever I'm making.