Help with Wands!

[AeroXZX]

So! With the upcoming update to Wand Lovers, my idea of maining a Wand TEcher seems a bit more "doable" and able to work well enough. So, first off, let's start with some builds:

Te/Hu:
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06eGbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0jeb IoqnGKsN6JiGA000006ebrbGAbAGFfJjnrA0000Ib000000lb0 00009b000000j4OId5dfdFI2J2jGBI2I2000082OqBGAIkzxIk 00008

Te/Fi:
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06hTbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0jeb IoqnGKsN6JiGA000006ebrbGAbAGFfJjnrA0000Ib000000lb0 00009b000000j4OId5dfdFI2J2jGBI2I2000082OqBGAIkzxIk 00008

Te/Br:
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06ygbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0jeb IoqnGKsN6JiGA000006ebrbGAbAGFfJjnrA0000Ib000000lb0 00009b000000j4OId5dfdFI2J2jGBI2I2000082OqBGAIkzxIk 00008



The general idea of the TEcher tree is simple. Maximizing the Wand skills and passives along with picking up Elemental Weak Hit. Of course, some points in the tree are able to be moved around based off of personal tastes.

1. HUnter - You know it.. you love it.. it's the general HUnter tree build! 85% damage boost, melee only, is quite nice. This would maximize Wand damage, though it would have the weakest of the Techs of the three builds.

2. FIghter - This build would boast higher T-Atk with lower S-Atk, for more balance. On top of that, the FIghter actually has bonuses to Techs! 55% damage boost to ailed enemies, and 35% damage boost to the front of enemies with a 45% damage boost to the back of enemies. So, this build could actually have a 100% damage boost to the front of ailed enemies, or 110% damage boost to the back of ailed enemies.. if the proper stance is up, along with the ailment. The HU would have it easy, but the FI would have more damage capabilities along with 'significantly' more tech damage.

3. BRaver - Lastly we have the BRaver sub. This one comes with Snatch Step and J Reversal Cover (personal preferences) and Dex/S-Atk bonuses (lots of extra points here) over the HU and FI builds. Unfortunately, BRaver would come with a flat 20% damage boost to all types, regardless of ailments or facing direction, with an extra 10% on charges. Of course, this could be boosted to 40% damage boost, and 50% on charges with weak stance. This would be easy to hit with the Techs, but on certain occasions could be very difficult with the melee attacks.




So, let's talk about gear real quick. Let's assume I'm an Irish rabbit foot with a computer and happen to be playing PSO2, having the best of luck. Let's imagine I have 6 +10 "Elysion"'s, one of each element and at 50 element power and lastly with the corresponding status ailment Lv.5. This would mean that each wand would deal maximum damage, and (hopefully) inflict status ailments very often (which would be very useful on bosses). With the "Elysions"'s 200% boost on uncharged techniques, this would help string quick techs out as opposed to charging, which would follow the idea of moving quickly (like a melee player likes to be).


So, with that knowledge, would it be safe to assume I'll proc status ailments enough for the Te/Fi to be better (even on bosses)? With the Te/Fi, and multiple maxed out "Elysion"'s, would uncharged techs be strong enough to be a viable option to give yourself range when needed or would running up to the enemy and just bash them away be worth the time/dmg output?






Another thing I wanted to add.. with the new upgrading system (to upgrade base damages), this would mean lower level weapons would actually shine at the later levels. This got me to thinking.. what if we used the specific wands for each element type instead of Elysion? This would include:
Fire - Club of Laconium
Ice - Mace of Adaman
Lightning - Club of Zumiuran
Wind - Windmill
Light - Divine Staff Tsukuyomi / Precious Sword Balmung
Dark - (no real option, since it doesn't exist [yet, possibly])

This would give a 16% boost to the specific elements damage, whether uncharged or charged. Also.. it would add a bit of flair by having different wands based off of the elements!

One more thing.. the "Magical Wand" comes with the ability "Strength Crystal" which boosts the effect of Wand Reactor. Now.. this is the lowest and weakest 10* Wand, but the effect could be quite strong. The Wand Reactor gives .2, .25, .3, .35, .4 at levels 1-5, respectively. Now, assuming that it goes up .5 per lvl with Strength Crystal, that would add an extra 15% base S-atk based off of the wands base T-atk. This is assuming it is at that rate. It could be more, could be less. Now.. the wand's base stats aren't too hot, so normally this wand wouldn't be too great.. but with the new crafting system, upgrading their base damage up could possibly make them ridiculous damage dealers.



Again, this is assuming you could get 6 different wands, max them out to +10 with Lv.3 Potentials, and have 50 power of each element, along with the proper status effect of at least Lv.3, but preferably Lv.5. Yeah, doing this with 6 Elysions would be ridiculously time consuming and expensive. Even so for the Magical Wands because of the crafting. The cheapest (maybe) would be the special wands I listed above, but would still be hard to get the potentials.

So, my questions are on the second part of this thread.. Would these super wands actually bring a wand user up to par on amazing damage? Constant element abusing, and using techs for ranged when need be (if Te/Fi, otherwise probably not). Would it be worth it? Which wands would be better, Elysion's, Magical Wands, or the 6 specific elemental wands?



I know this was a 'very' long thread, with a lot of info/questions, but I would love as much feedback as possible, so I can sort of have a good head on my shoulders about this, and see if it's actually worth the investment. I would love to know! Thank you in advance for your time in reading this, and answering any questions if you do! :)

[Ratazana]

1. If you want to do dmg with Techs you will need one tree for each element.
2. Bosses are immune to SE with few exceptions. Trash dies so fast that SE are pointless.
3. Elysion >>>>>> Any other Wand or casting weapon.
4. Even if you have Elysion, 6 different trees and gear worth 200m you would still do less damage than a Braver or Gunner who spent 10m. Without Elysion... just no.

With the crafting system techs might get viable but it will probably take a lot of money to get anything good from it.

[UnLucky]

Well first of all, the percentage based skills stack multiplicatively, not additively. So Hunter gives 220% to Striking attacks, though only 151% goes towards wand gear explosions, and only 120% works with techs.

Fighter would be 138% from the front and 163% from behind (both Wise Stance skills are 10% higher than Brave), with Chase providing an extra 161% for Striking (222%/262% with B/W) or 115% for Techs (159%/187%).

Braver would just be a terrible idea, especially if you don't plan on charging your techs. But you could max both stances (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06bAbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0lbI n0000000lb000009b000000lb000009b000000lb0000000IOd B4NfmxIkJIHn0000j) like so for 122% all damage, 133% charged, 143% on weaknesses and 157% when charged on weakness.


But no matter which sub you pick, your techs are going to be atrocious since you have no maxed masteries at all. Before you try to maximize your equipment and your class combination, take a look at your main class first...

That said, forget about Elysion, the Stina is the strongest melee wand money can buy. Highest S-Atk in the game, with Fury Stance latent.

Another choice is the Traitor Peak, which is Hunter equippable. The latent boosts tech JA, but Hu/Te's techs are not to be relied upon.

Though as Te/Fi, Elysion or Windmill are perfect with maxed Wind Masteries.

[Rayden]

None of your builds have the Wand Gear skill. If you want to melee with wands, you should absolutely get this.


2. Bosses are immune to SE with few exceptions.
I see this said a lot, but it isn't really true. Roughly half of the bosses can have status effects, and it's not even that hard to apply them. The general rule of thumb is that mini-bosses (such as Rockbear, Caterdra'n, and De Malmoth) can have status effects, while the big bosses (Fang Banther, Vol Dragon, Snow Banther, etc.) cannot.

That said, I did once see a screenshot of a Dark Ragne with a status effect, and I have personally seen Dark Vibras with a status effect (panic?), although I don't know if they affected Chase or not. I believe they should, since they looked like they were applied as normal status effects.

[Kondibon]

That said, I did once saw a screenshot of a Dark Ragne with a status effect, and I have personally seen Dark Vibras with a status effect (panic?), although I don't know if they affected Chase or not. I believe they should, since they looked like they were applied as normal status effects.I've never seen Ragne with a status effect but I've heard about it. It was likely a bug and got patched out.

As for Vibras, Panic stuns it like burn does to banthers so I doubt it counts as a normal status effect.

[jooozek]

inb4 jellen

[Kondibon]

inb4 jellen

I heard Jellen doesn't trigger chase skills. Bind does however. :I

[UnLucky]

I see this said a lot, but it isn't really true. Roughly half of the bosses can have status effects, and it's not even that hard to apply them. The general rule of thumb is that mini-bosses (such as Rockbear, Caterdra'n, and De Malmoth) can have status effects, while the big bosses (Fang Banther, Vol Dragon, Snow Banther, etc.) cannot.
No boss can have a status effect for the purposes of Chase. Period.

Minibosses are immune to most status effects to the point of being very expensive to counter, or you're using weak techs you're not specced in just to get that SE.

[Arksenth]

No boss can have a status effect for the purposes of Chase. Period.

Minibosses are immune to most status effects to the point of being very expensive to counter, or you're using weak techs you're not specced in just to get that SE.

Actually, as a Te/Fi, this is strictly untrue. It's pretty easy to get a weak element's SE on a miniboss if you're using the right techs as they will have very little resistance, and worth it too because the effect usually persists around 30 seconds for a 15% bonus to tech damage and a 61% bonus to Striking Damage. I always start off miniboss battles by quickly proccing the SE.

Not to mention that a stance for FI is equivalent to a dual or even triple master anyway, plus EWH, so it's not a huge damage drop...

[UnLucky]

Hm, losing the double mastery but gaining EWH and the natural weakness does even out, and Chase would be the tie breaker.

I'm still thinking in terms of Fo/Fi vs Fo/Te where using an off element is always a bad idea.

Now if only you could somehow use techs as a Fi/Br...

[Arksenth]

You can also just switch back to Wind the moment the SE is procced anyway, which doesn't take that long. The striking damage boost is super significant though, so it's worth landing the SE regardless of if you're sticking with the weak element Tech or not.

Also, it's convenient that the two elements that don't really synergize with this strategy aren't that needed either. Lightning, which is too costly to depend on for shock without Bolt PP Save and PP Charge Revival, doesn't have exclusive proc on anything (Wolga can be panicked too), and Ice, which wears off after a few hits instead of being a ticker effect, only has exclusive proc on Caterdraal.

So basically you can just focus on Light, Dark, Wind and Fire. And all have multi-hit techs that are pretty easy to proc Status Effects with, so you can typically get one on in just one or two casts.

[AeroXZX]

@Ratazana:
1. The point of using the techs are if there are any reasons why I can't melee (enemy is out of reach by being too high, or underground to ready up a charge, or is waaay too far away) I can use techs to fill in the gap. Might as well use the PP while it's there. Having 6 trees defeat the purpose, since the purpose is being able to switch to any of the 6 elements on the fly. I'd mainly deal damage with my melee, but the magic would be used to fill in the gaps where I can't.
2. I know mini-bosses aren't, but bosses are supposedly (For the most part), so going Fighter, I'd lose a big damage bonus against the bosses that can't be SE'd.

3. Elysion only gives a damage bonus to uncharged techs (which, in this build is what I'd be using the most), so I would agree to this. That, and the look of it.. it screams wand main user.

4. Now, how much damage less are we talking? In terms of being able to Zondeel a group together, then proceed to smash them away with the wand.. would it be ridiculously less damage than other builds, or just 'a bit' less?



@UnLucky:
Didn't know that! Is it multiplicatively per bonus, or multiplicatively between the trees? From your numbers, having the FIghter sub seems to give the most damage.. but because of the requirement of hitting on the right side and certain bosses not being able to be SE'ed, you would have less overall damage. More on techs, which is who I'd be using on the bosses the most (when they go out of reach), but that could be iffy if they change directions a lot, which they sometimes do. Still, from the jist it seems you're trading reliable damage for less and more damage, based off of the situation.

Also, I understand that if you made your tree based purely on 1 element, your damage would actually be quite a bit higher, but my suggestion is being able to use all the elements, with several wands, in one go. Not going back to switch out repeatedly. You would suffer a bit, but you wouldn't have to repeatedly switch it. Maybe with 6 trees, choosing one element to roll with would be fine, and quite a bit more effective... except there'd be no wand gear or wand lovers without techer, so I'd be forced to stick only to wind, light, and dark energies. I'm more wanting to be able to use all elements to a decent enough rate. Using 6 Stina's in mono-element builds would work, but only to a certain degree I feel.

I feel that going Te/Fi would be wonderful with the Windmill, and maxing the Wind tree. It gives very good sync to maximize damage, but again.. I would "really" like to use all elements. If possible, and still able to do well. I know that certain areas allow for you to stick with 1 element and be fine, but using all I feel would be a lot more fun.



@Rayden:
That... was not intended :p! I guess I forgot to put a point in there. I would take a point from something and just get that one point for wand gear, for sure. Just an oversight.



@Arksenth:
See, I feel status effecting bosses with the above gear I displayed seems very doable. At least, mini-bosses. If bosses could be status effected.. that'd be a different story! Now, using multihit skills just to proc status effects, followed by smashing away with the appropriate wand doesn't sound bad at all.

[UnLucky]

You could try a Te/Fi build like this (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06hTbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0jeb IoqnGKsN6JiGA000006ebxBGBbnGFfJjnr0000fb000000lb00 0009b000000j4Odq5kfdFI2HSIbfGOI2000002OqBGAIkzxIk0 0008), with a focus in wind, but a little in light/dark. Sadly there's not enough SP to get much more than that.

Of course, having a pure tree would do more damage, but that's not always possible for every enemy in every map.

[Arksenth]

You could try a Te/Fi build like this (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06hTbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0jeb IoqnGKsN6JiGA000006ebxBGBbnGFfJjnr0000fb000000lb00 0009b000000j4Odq5kfdFI2HSIbfGOI2000002OqBGAIkzxIk0 0008), with a focus in wind, but a little in light/dark. Sadly there's not enough SP to get much more than that.

Of course, having a pure tree would do more damage, but that's not always possible for every enemy in every map.

Meeeeh.

With the introduction of Wand Lovers, it'd make more sense to me to scrap Elemental Weak Hit over your second Wind Mastery for TE/FI. For general purposes, Wind techs are going to be your bread-and-butter with Sazan hitting explosively hard with dual mastery, FI stance and then a Windmill Latent bonus on top of that and possibly a Chase Advance Plus bonus - to the point that you'll be one-shotting many mobs in SH even. Plus Zan remains a large-boss staple.

PP Restraint is pretty important for TE/FI too because it reduces your teching downtime. Of course that means without EWH you'll only be switching to other elements for SE proc on minibosses and then back to Wind, but again, it doesn't take much to proc a weak element status.

So I'd say the TE skill tree you've provided is really more suited for TE/HU.

Also for the FI skill tree, since Wands hit so many times with the Explosion AoE factored in, with a minimum of two hits a smack, you really don't need Chase Bind at 10. Chase Bind at 1 is enough to proc plenty of the time, and it makes sense to just maximize the stances instead.

I'd prefer a build like this:
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06hTbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0jeb IoqnGKsN6JiGA000006ebHoGBbnGKf2Ninr0000fb000000lb0 00009b000000j4OdqHXfdsI2cFjGOI2000002OqBGAIkzxIk00 008

[AeroXZX]

@UnLucky:
That was actually (almost) exactly what I had in terms of a more wind/light/dark orientated version. My main thing is.. I know having a pure tree would make the damage of techs 'significantly' better, but it's more of the idea of having the utility and freedom of using any techs without being hurt too badly for it. Even so, in a wand build, the techs would just be there for status effects, but mostly as a form of ranged damage for when you can't reach the opponent. Might as well do something as opposed to nothing while waiting.

@Arksenth:
Makes sense, again, if I was choosing one element. This is with the idea of not singling onto one element alone. Still, making good sense.

[Arksenth]

The problem with element match builds is you're absolutely forced yo match Techs to weaknesses, and not every tech elemental group has enough utility to cover the situations you need. This goes double for Te/Fi where you need to be able to keep up a goos gear gauge in addition to reliably be able to abuse the extra multipliers for one shots, since you're really relying on pp efficiency to make up for yourbloss on Charge Revival. There is no point in playing Te/Fi as a sustained caster like Fo, as your multipliers are setting you up for - it's a nuke and recharge type of class.

And currently the only really feasible element branch to do this with is wind.

[AeroXZX]

@Arksenth:
What I mean is, matching elements to weakness is what I'd want to do, so I can maximize damage and enjoy those boosts, regardless of what I fight. Always having the enemies weakness. As for the gear gauge, I would have Wand Lovers for that. The PP I'd have would be constantly full, 'except' for when casting skills, which would only be done when I'm out of range I wouldn't be one shotting everything. I wouldn't be a straight out caster. I would be a wand user, who would use techs for their ranged attacks.

[Arksenth]

Then you're really better off going TE/HU because the TE/FI build prioritizes teching over melee. Although honestly you're still going to be doing that a lot on TE/HU because as terrible as teching damage is most of the time, it's still a lot better and reliant in output than even subclass boosted wand damage.

I dunno, a lot of what you're looking for stands up in theory, but not really in practice.

[UnLucky]

With the introduction of Wand Lovers, it'd make more sense to me to scrap Elemental Weak Hit over your second Wind Mastery for TE/FI.

PP Restraint is pretty important for TE/FI too because it reduces your teching downtime.

Chase Bind at 1 is enough to proc plenty of the time, and it makes sense to just maximize the stances instead.
I'd normally go with pure wind, for sure, but Aero doesn't want a pure wind tree.

Is it worth 20 SP for 2PP/s while not casting? That's either idle time when there's nothing to attack, or you're using normal attacks to refill your PP anyway.

As for Bind, I was thinking more for a miniboss. At that point you would only get two hits per swing, so a 20% chance to bind wouldn't proc too often. Most things you can Zondeel together that already have an SE will die regardless of Bind, the only exception would be multiple large mobs all together.

But I figure since you have a focus on casting, you wouldn't want to spend more time than you need proccing Bind with melee attacks when you're already at full PP. SE->Zan->Bind->Zan and repeat.

[AeroXZX]

Thanks for the info everyone! I think I have a general jist at which way I should be going to attempt this. I suppose now we just wait for the updated skill tree and Wand Lovers, and see what happens. I'll post a video in the future of the damage with a skill tree.. when I'm super rich and get it all. Thanks for all the help, everyone :D

[Arksenth]

I'd normally go with pure wind, for sure, but Aero doesn't want a pure wind tree.

Is it worth 20 SP for 2PP/s while not casting? That's either idle time when there's nothing to attack, or you're using normal attacks to refill your PP anyway.

As for Bind, I was thinking more for a miniboss. At that point you would only get two hits per swing, so a 20% chance to bind wouldn't proc too often. Most things you can Zondeel together that already have an SE will die regardless of Bind, the only exception would be multiple large mobs all together.

But I figure since you have a focus on casting, you wouldn't want to spend more time than you need proccing Bind with melee attacks when you're already at full PP. SE->Zan->Bind->Zan and repeat.

Yeah, but generally you'd want to continue a melee chain until at least the 3rd hit since that has the highest multipliers, so there's really a lot of hits to ultimately proc Chase Bind. It's not like you really need to get it on instantly anyway since most movements are going to be pretty in-between when you're up and in the face of a miniboss like that anyway. Plus, keep in mind once you have a Status Effect on to initiate Chase Bind, you already have Chase Advance. And that's enough to boost your striking wand damage from "meh this is for PP so I can zan more" to "I guess it's worth smacking your face more." Especially if your Wand is able to reach a weak point that your Zan/Sazan isn't going to be able to like on Rockbear or Wolga or Tranmizer or Caterdran'sa... or really most of the minibosses come to think of it - they're great techs, but they can be a little problematic for accurately nailing weak points with their wide-spread effect and suction respectively.

In practice you get a lot more use out of PP Restraint than you'd think. Running in between mobs spawns, for instance - it gives you the luxury of being able to spend all your PP on the last mob spawn without being PP-burnt for the next one. Also keep in mind that for bosses, you're going to be spending a huge amount of time dodging especially if you're soloing, and in addition to giving you more downtime, that often can disrupt your teching-melee flow and gear gauge charge that you need the PP badly. Not to mention, a lot of your bossing is honestly going to be pretty messy that sometimes you're going to need the extra PP regen to stay on the safe side as a pure teching class. Fang Banther comes to mind - once he does that howl after Banshee dies, there's no way you're going to get ANY melee smacks in with his speed until you manage to break his legs with techs - which means you're going to have to rely on PP Restraint to tide you over.

Plus it means you dash faster with more Straight Charges/Assault Busters, I guess. I 'unno.

Not like there's a huge amount for you to really get anyway since you can't get EWH with dual Wind Masteries and Wand Lovers, and it's worthless with only 5 points with the way it scales anyway.