Elements on weapons,what they do,what they dont

[Arakasa]

just wanting a bit of clarification or perhaps a guide on how weapon based elements/attributes work in PSO2,main questions being

striking weps: element % boosts damage for striking attacks?

ranged weps: element % boosts damage for ranged attacks?

tech weps: element % boosts damage for striking attacks? boosts damage of same element techs?
boosts damage for techsplosion of wand gear?

if anything gets a damage bonus from element,does it stack with the element weak hit skill?

would an elemental set of a weapon type be beneficial as opposed to neutral due to elements not boosting damage to certain damage types?

i tend to try and attack with a weapon of the element the enemy is weak against,id like to hope its not a waste of effort.

[UnLucky]

It's extra Atk equal to the elemental attribute's value as a percent of the weapon's Atk stat, including the grind but not affixes.

So if your sword or gun has 1000 Atk, 50% lightning, you get 500 bonus Atk as lightning damage. All other sources of Atk, including the weapon itself, counts as neutral damage.

The elemental portion does get affected by elemental weakness and resistance, but not the neutral portion. There is no downside to having an element of some kind on your weapon, even if the enemy is heavily resistant to that type. Of course, having the correct element would be better, but nothing is worse than no element at all.

The bonus elemental Atk does count toward PA damage, but not techs.

Element Weak Hit boosts your entire damage by 20% if the element on your weapon is the enemy's weakness (with normal attacks or PAs). This was recently changed, as before only the elemental portion would be boosted. But this still does not allow the neutral part of your attack to count towards Weak Stance.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It's extra Atk equal to the elemental attribute's value as a percent of the weapon's Atk stat, including the grind but not affixes.

So if your sword or gun has 1000 Atk, 50% lightning, you get 500 bonus Atk as lightning damage. All other sources of Atk, including the weapon itself, counts as neutral damage.

Fairly sure that 50% is only one part of the equation. The thread that had the formula in it is somewhere buried in these forums, but at the end of it, 50 element was worth 10% more s/r atk, which makes sense or else we'd be seeing much larger damage spikes between 30 and 50 element weapons. In your example, that 500 extra atk is worth ~45% more damage (perhaps a little less) over the same weapon with no element depending on the player's stats :-?

[Rayden]

Fairly sure that 50% is only one part of the equation. The thread that had the formula in it is somewhere buried in these forums, but at the end of it, 50 element was worth 10% more s/r atk, which makes sense or else we'd be seeing much larger damage spikes between 30 and 50 element weapons. In your example, that 500 extra atk is worth ~45% more damage (perhaps a little less) over the same weapon with no element depending on the player's stats :-?

I'm certain it works how UnLucky explained.

Let's say you have 600 base ATK, and the 1000 ATK sword/gun. This will give you 1600 ATK at 0% element, 1900 ATK at 30% element, and 2100 ATK at 50% element. 2100 ATK is roughly 10% stronger than 1900 ATK, so there's your 10% difference. Compared to a 0% element, it's 31% stronger.

All rares drop with elements now, so you shouldn't really need to compare against a 0% element, but rather more like 20-30%.

[Geistritter]

People sure would have a lot more concrete evidence around here if they just freaking tried it themselves instead of assuming everything UnLucky says is right.

[Kondibon]

This is from the JP wiki. I can't japanese, and google translate wasn't all that helpful but if someone else wants to try, be my guest.

打撃
打撃ダメージ = (トータルの打撃力 / 5 - 敵の打撃防御 / 5) * 打撃部位倍率
属性ダメージ = 強化は含み能力は含まない武器攻撃力 / 5 * (属性値/100) * 属性部位倍率
最終ダメージ = (打撃ダメージ + 属性ダメージ) * PAやスキルによる倍率 * (1.05※)
※最後の1.05倍は武器の種別を含めて要検証。2012年の秋頃から仕様変更された可能性があ る。

射撃
射撃ダメージ = (トータルの射撃力 / 5 - 敵の射撃防御 / 5) * 射撃部位倍率
属性ダメージ = 強化は含み能力は含まない武器攻撃力 / 5 * (属性値/100) * 属性部位倍率
最終ダメージ = (射撃ダメージ + 属性ダメージ) * PAやスキルによる倍率 * (1.05※)
※最後の1.05倍は武器の種別を含めて要検証。2012年の秋頃から仕様変更された可能性があ る。

テクニック
最終ダメージ = (トータルの法撃力 / 5 - 敵の法撃防御 / 5) * 属性部位倍率 * PAやスキルによる倍率 * (1.05※)
※テクニックは全て属性ダメージであり、武器の属性は影響しない。フルチャージ時のダメージが基 準となる。
※属性部位倍率には法撃部位倍率が含まれているが、ややこしい(分離して検証できない)ためこの式では省略 している。
※最後の1.05倍は武器の種別を含めて要検証。2012年の秋頃から仕様変更された可能性があ る。

部位倍率
敵や敵の部位によって、打撃、射撃、各属性ダメージの倍率が変わる。以下の様なものが確認され ている。
弱点属性にかかる対応倍率は 1.2 や 1.3 のエネミーが多い。
ファルス・ヒューナルの剣は光属性のみ高倍率、他属性は低倍率になっている。
射撃で頭を狙うとダメージが増加するいわゆるヘッドショットは、射撃部位倍率のみが 2.0 倍のエネミーが多い。
ダーカーのコアや侵食核など、打撃射撃及び全ての属性でダメージが倍になる部位もある。
カルターゴの正面やマルモスの側面など、部位倍率が 1.0 以下のエネミーもいる。
ヴォルドラゴンなど、属性倍率が 1.0 以下の水面下で差があったり、特定の部位にのみ弱点属性が存在するエネミーもいる。

[Bellion]

Striking damage = [(Total S-atk/5)-(enemy S-def/5)]*Striking damage modifier
Elemental damage = Weapon S-atk(that does not include affixes)/5 * Elemental value/100* Elemental damage modifier
Total striking damage = (Striking damage+Elemental damage)*PA and skill tree*1.05

Ranged = same thing as striking but replace with ranged, obviously.

Tech damage = [(Total T-atk/5)-(Enemy T-def/5)]*Elemental modifier*PA and skill tree*1.05

Random *1.05 because SEGA.

[Kondibon]

Striking damage = [(Total S-atk/5)-(enemy S-def/5)]*Striking damage modifier
Elemental damage = Weapon S-atk(that does not include affixes)/5 * Elemental value/100* Elemental damage modifier
Total striking damage = (Striking damage+Elemental damage)*PA and skill tree*1.05

Ranged = same thing as striking but replace with ranged, obviously.

Tech damage = [(Total T-atk/5)-(Enemy T-def/5)]*Elemental modifier*PA and skill tree*1.05

Random *1.05 because SEGA.Thank you~


Plugging some stuff into the elemental damage formula, we'd get...

1000/5 * 50/100 for the base bonus not including resistances or that 5% tacked on.

That's 200 * .5

That's... 100? A 10% increase of s-atk on a weapon?

I think I'm inputting the elemental value wrong. How to math :-?

EDIT: Derp, I think I see know. It's not S-atk it's just damage. Damage, that based on the formulas seems to ignore defense. Assuming an enemy has like 500 defense or something and the player has 500 base s-atk with no stances or anything...

[(1500/5)-(500/5)]
[300-100]
200 damage.

So if we take that and combine it with the elemental damage bonus it's

300*1.05
315 damage.

That's a pretty hefty increase, but since it's based purely on weapon damage I think it could vary a lot. I don't know I'm too groggy for this...

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'm certain it works how UnLucky explained.

Let's say you have 600 base ATK, and the 1000 ATK sword/gun. This will give you 1600 ATK at 0% element, 1900 ATK at 30% element, and 2100 ATK at 50% element. 2100 ATK is roughly 10% stronger than 1900 ATK, so there's your 10% difference. Compared to a 0% element, it's 31% stronger.

All rares drop with elements now, so you shouldn't really need to compare against a 0% element, but rather more like 20-30%.

I ment a 10% atk difference from 0 element to 50. Not from 30 to 50 (in which case the difference should be mearly 4%).


Thank you~


Plugging some stuff into the elemental damage formula, we'd get...

1000/5 * 50/100 for the base bonus not including resistances or that 5% tacked on.

That's 200 * .5

That's... 100? A 10% increase of s-atk on a weapon?

I think I'm inputting the elemental value wrong. How to math :-?

Looks legit assuming the parentheses were omitted in the original formula and should be (1000/5)*(50/100), in which case you did it right.

[Kondibon]

Looks legit assuming the parenthases were omitted in the original formula and should be (1000/5)*(50/100), in which case you did it right.I edited my post to include the first and last parts of the formula as well. It's 10% of your weapon damage added to your damage. It's not s-atk. That's a pretty big difference since 10% more atk is negligible, but 10% more damage is pretty good, even if it's just your weapon's damage.

EDIT: This does of course mean that it's not necessarily a straight 50% damage bonus unless your atk is exactly half of your weapon's atk.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I edited my post to include the first and last parts of the formula as well. It's 10% of your weapon damage added to your damage. It's not s-atk. That's a pretty big difference since 10% more atk is negligible, but 10% more damage is pretty good, even if it's just your weapon's damage.

EDIT: This does of course mean that it's not necessarily a straight 50% damage bonus unless your atk is exactly half of your weapon's atk.

I'm assuming that's 10% extra weapon damage before affixes since they're excluded from the math.

I'll go play with the damage myself in game.

edit: Yeah you're right it's at least 10% damage, not 10% atk. Maybe my memory wasn't the best, but it was in the ballpark.

Tested using a pair of un-affixed vita esrains. One with no element, the other with 50 light, both at +10 and beat on a SH-level nab rappy.

[jooozek]

ok, i've went ahead and tested on lv1 oodans and rappies using two 6* Vita Hatchet +10
gunslashes using first hit melee crits while on maxed furystance and full hp with maxed perfect keeper: i've had a total 1017 S-ATK, the gunslashes have 379 S-ATK at +10; first gunslash had 50 fire, second one had no element

50 fire gunslash
oodan: 486

no element gunslash
oodan: 395

spoiler: the gunslash s-atk contribution amounts to only 37.2% of the whole total S-ATK and if you can't see the already massive gain in damage from having the 50% attribute with a weapon that only has such small attack value (imagine if it was something with 1000 base attack, what the fuck) then it can't be helped

[Kondibon]

My bad! It's equivalent anyway

For reference adding 50% more weapon atk to weapon the first formula with no element bonus...

[(2000/5)-(500/5)]
[400-100]
300 damage

And slapping that 5% on there it's 315


Throwing more numbers in there. This time let's say your weapon has 2000 atk, you have 400, and your enemy 600 defense.

Base Damage
(2400/5)-(600/5)
480-120
360

Element Damage
(2000/5)*(50/100)
400*0.5
200

Final Damage
360+200*0.05
588

Adding 50% more weapon atk with no element again.

Base Damage
(3400/5)-(600/5)
680-120
560

Final damage is
560*0.05=588

Yeah it's a straight equivalent of 50% more atk on your weapon.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Half of vita esrain's atk at +10 is 236.5.

Shunka shunran 1st stab crits (uncharged) with 1435 s atk maxed fury, and average stance on lvl 61 odans:

No element: 5486

50 light: 6580

236.5 atk is worth ~20% more damage in this case with my stats.

Going to double check without stances.

2498 and 2996 without stances. Would be nice to see the difference if stronger rare weapons without elements still existed, but that would be a horrible thing to wish for.


ok, i've went ahead and tested on lv1 oodans and rappies using two 6* Vita Hatchet +10
gunslashes using first hit melee crits while on maxed furystance and full hp with maxed perfect keeper: i've had a total 1017 S-ATK, the gunslashes have 379 S-ATK at +10; first gunslash had 50 fire, second one had no element

50 fire gunslash
oodan: 486

no element gunslash
oodan: 395

spoiler: the gunslash s-atk contribution amounts to only 37.2% of the whole total S-ATK and if you can't see the already massive gain in damage from having the 50% attribute with a weapon that only has such small attack value (imagine if it was something with 1000 base attack, what the fuck) then it can't be helped

You shouldn't use a fire weapon against enemies weak to fire when testing the effects of the element alone.

[jooozek]

You shouldn't use a fire weapon against enemies weak to fire when testing the effects of the element alone.
and you shouldn't test low attack weapons on high defense enemies :-?
i imagine if i used something other than fire i would be dealing 470ish damage
i'll put out something other than fire in few mins
edit: crit was exactly 470 on a 50 ice +10 vita hatchet

[Kondibon]

and you shouldn't test low attack weapons on high defense enemies :-?

The elemental bonus ignores defense anyway so that shouldn't matter how much defense they have.

What are you guys even testing? How much the element boosts your overall damage? Cause that's gonna vary a lot and the rest we can't figure out without knowing actual enemy defense.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

What are you guys even testing? How much the element boosts your overall damage? Cause that's gonna vary a lot and the rest we can't figure out without knowing actual enemy defense.

Not really. I was testing under the assumption it did in fact give 50% s atk, and how accurately it reflects on damage.

Speaking of which, I should test the 1* katana next.

And for some reason they're over 17k each. -_-

[jooozek]

What are you guys even testing? How much the element boosts your overall damage? Cause that's gonna vary a lot and the rest we can't figure out without knowing actual enemy defense.
i've read this

(...) 50 element was worth 10% more s/r atk, which makes sense or else we'd be seeing much larger damage spikes between 30 and 50 element weapons. (...)
so i went ahead and tested because i knew empirically that obviously it was way, way more than 10% damage and the conversion of attribute to % of the base of the weapon's attack value was 1:1 (percentage wise speaking)

[UnLucky]

Woah, this thread sure blew up.


ok, i've went ahead and tested on lv1 oodans and rappies using two 6* Vita Hatchet +10
gunslashes using first hit melee crits while on maxed furystance and full hp with maxed perfect keeper: i've had a total 1017 S-ATK, the gunslashes have 379 S-ATK at +10; first gunslash had 50 fire, second one had no element

50 fire gunslash
oodan: 486

no element gunslash
oodan: 395
So it's exactly as I explained it.

50% of your weapon's Atk stat (379*0.5=189.5) boosted by 20% due to fire weakness becomes 227.4.

Compared to your total Atk it's 227.4/1017=22.4%

The damage difference between your two attempts is (486-395)/395=23%

[Original_DFO]

It's pretty much like unlucky explained. I'm surprised that people STILL dont know how elements on melee and range weapons work.

Pretty much 50% weapons are always better than weapons with no element at all.

So for exmaple, if DF drops you an Ely Sion (sword) with 20% light but someone has a 50% light flame brand the flame brand is STRONGER than your shiny 12* sword lmao.

Unless you're lucky enough to get another Ely Sion to 50% it, but that's not realistic =P

Ive known this fact since 2012 and I been called horrible names by B20 whenever I try to explain this to them LOL.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It's pretty much like unlucky explained. I'm surprised that people STILL dont know how elements on melee and range weapons work.

-Ambiguous unexplained game mechanics are ambiguous and unexplained. The moment something requires you to look through a fansite, and do multi-step algebra to figure out how it works, it's probably not as common knowledge as you think it is.


Ive known this fact since 2012 and I been called horrible names by B20 whenever I try to explain this to them LOL.

-No need to be a hipster.

[gigawuts]

For reference:

It's not that the bonus elemental atk ignores defense. They described the formula poorly. Correctly, because :math:, but poorly.

It's more like ( (striking damage) + (elemental damage) - (defense) ) * all sorts of multipliers

When you subtract the defense doesn't matter. Shit, you could subtract defense first and end up with a negative value at the start. It doesn't matter. Also, yes, the elemental damage is susceptible to same-type multipliers as far as I've ever seen. That means striking on striking attacks and ranged on ranged attacks. Whatever bonuses the rest of your attack would have gotten, the elemental portion gets too.

[Omega-z]

Striking damage = [(Total S-atk/5)-(enemy S-def/5)]*Striking damage modifier
Elemental damage = Weapon S-atk(that does not include affixes)/5 * Elemental value/100* Elemental damage modifier
Total striking damage = (Striking damage+Elemental damage)*PA and skill tree*1.05

Ranged = same thing as striking but replace with ranged, obviously.

Tech damage = [(Total T-atk/5)-(Enemy T-def/5)]*Elemental modifier*PA and skill tree*1.05

Random *1.05 because SEGA.


Random *1.05 because SEGA. I doubt it's random most likely an assigned % to the formula that where unaware off.

[Kondibon]

For reference:

It's not that the bonus elemental atk ignores defense. They described the formula poorly. Correctly, because :math:, but poorly.

It's more like ( (striking damage) + (elemental damage) - (defense) ) * all sorts of multipliers

When you subtract the defense doesn't matter. Shit, you could subtract defense first and end up with a negative value at the start. It doesn't matter. Also, yes, the elemental damage is susceptible to same-type multipliers as far as I've ever seen. That means striking on striking attacks and ranged on ranged attacks. Whatever bonuses the rest of your attack would have gotten, the elemental portion gets too.

While it's not relevant to actual gameplay, and for the most part you're right, I'm pretty sure any negative damage would be rounded to 0, thus, in any situation where an enemy completely negates your damage, the elemental damage would always go through regardless of how much fall of there is.

Unless it DOESN'T round to zero... then that's just silly.

[UnLucky]

Well yes, if the value is negative due to defense at the end of the equation it deals 1 point of damage.

But no, I'm pretty sure the elemental portion doesn't let you deal more than 1 damage to enemies with extremely high stats. It's still mitigated by defense, it just doesn't seem like it because it adds to your previous total.