Alright Sega we get it, Braver is finally OP

[Edson Drake]

So can we have, please, could we have our Forces back into the game?

Every AQ I join with my Force I feel a detriment to the party. Not being able to kill anything because 3 Bravers Shunka everything.

It's about time Sega fixes the class that should be nuking everything since it's the Mage/Glass Cannon class of every fantasy RPG.

Instead, it tickles SH enemies and dies when touched by anything. Crafting is cool but it doesn't fix Forces. Now that they finally made Braver the way the Japanese wanted, it's time for Forces to be reviewed.

Any news(or plans) on that? Anyone?

[Kikikiki]

This isn't Sakai's HQ.

[NoiseHERO]

I thought FO somehow sucked in every game at endgame?

Don't worry there will be more buffs. And then everyone will be an ICE FO because it'll get some kinda 2000% attack boost for 1 minute skill, and all of it's PA's attack power will be tripled when level 17 discs come out.

[redroses]

@Rock, Forces (at least Masterforce) didn't suck in PSU, it was actually a very good and fun class to play.

@OP, I have to agree. With gunners and bravers around everything is already dead before I can finish charging my tech. I especially noticed this in the boosted border break EQ. All I can do is cast zondeel and not even that most of the time, because everything is already dead before I can reach the monsters and cast it.

Personally, I would really love to have instant casting back and if they wanted, they could just add a skill that lets you cast even faster (masterforce speed). That way they probably wouldn't even have to increase damage if forces could just cast instantly.
Especially seeing as uncharged techs serve no purpose, unlike in PSZ, where charging changed the technic.
Some technics could be left as chargeable, like namegid, as with this technic the charging mechanic makes sense.

[Edson Drake]

Don't worry there will be more buffs. And then everyone will be an ICE FO because it'll get some kinda 2000% attack boost for 1 minute skill, and all of it's PA's attack power will be tripled when level 17 discs come out.

I hope you're right. It would be cool(no pun) if Ice Force could still be slightly weaker than the other elements, but the freezing aspect of it could be more useful. In weapons it should still be weaker as an ability, but when a Force casts GiBarta, it should freeze for a long time and the Ice shouldn't break easily as it does now.


Personally, I would really love to have instant casting back and if they wanted, they could just add a skill that lets you cast even faster (masterforce speed). That way they probably wouldn't even have to increase damage if forces could just cast instantly.
Especially seeing as uncharged techs serve no purpose, unlike in PSZ, where charging changed the technic.
Some technics could be left as chargeable, like namegid, as with this technic the charging mechanic makes sense.


Instant casting would be nice.

But it seems Sega tends to change things without huge structure changes in the skill trees, gravitating towards more power in higher level disks like we saw with lv 16 disks, but there were significant changes in the Braver's case, so I wonder if Force is fixable with just lv 17 disks.

I'd like to see a "quality of life" review of the Force class myself. Where Sega asks players if they think the class is fun to play and what should be changed, and changes accordingly.

I believe that in order to the class to be fun again, there should be a total restructuring of the Force(and techer to some extent) skill trees and changing the charge system. I think the charge system should be optional, some kind of overkill mechanic when fighting bosses or powerful enemies for example, some kind of extra juice you can use when in dire need.

Probably daydreaming here, we'll probably get(and if that) lv 17 "re-balancing" disks. I would be happy anyway.

[holmwood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpeFOo_tOW4

Fo/Br is pretty good with Bow. Banish arrow + namegid syncs quite nicely (used in banther fight). Nafoie dumping on immobile weakspots also syncs nicely (used in rockbear fight).
Cast time reduction custom techs like zonde, gifoie, nafoie, and ragrants would be fairly decent for regular mobs provided you have the means to regenerate pp quickly (like double saber step-attack in this video).

The constraint for fo/br is having the right tech equipment... So they can't really benefit from weapon crafting.

[UnLucky]

Force always had good AoE, but not always damage. In prior games, at least they had valuable support to make up the lost DPS. Here they were amazing before the Fury Stance change, but still great for standard mobs since they had so little HP.

Don't forget that Braver and Gunner's best mobbing PAs also need to be charged, they just have a much greater damage output. I expect Force to get some huge buff at some point since that's all Sega knows how to balance, but it feels like they prenerfed tech crafting because they were afraid of Zondegate 2.0.

[ShinMaruku]

I wait for the time we get psp2i forces. Damn where those chains beautiful....

[Emp]

I wait for the time we get psp2i forces. Damn where those chains beautiful....

I miss my Dig tech.

[ShinMaruku]

I miss getting 14kK gidiga....

[Coatl]

But FO can one shot most anything in AQs. They aren't gimped until you fight lv60+ mobs.

[ShinMaruku]

But FO can one shot most anything in AQs. They aren't gimped until you fight lv60+ mobs.

I can 1 shot some SH mobs too. :P

[Freshellent]

Yo, -fuck- Diga. Was the most boring tech in the game.

I wouldn't say FO is as bad as people make it out to be- everyone's just spoiled into killing something in less than a second and the demand for it is high.

I wouldn't make the argument that it's balanced but FO as far as I can remember doesn't lag behind as people make it out to be.

[gigawuts]

FO's real issue is single-target damage and sustained damage. I can deal with a class not being built to 1shot everything, but instead focus on AOE and range (and ranged AOE).

So in that vein, tech crafting has gone a long way to solving FO's problems. If you're lucky, anyway, also currently you have to be rich.

[UnLucky]

Well yeah, every other class besides Force or Techer can kill anything in a single PA which comes out instantly for the most part.

It's like what Gunner was like when it first came out, desperately spamming high cost single target PAs and still falling short of Ranger in every aspect.

It was supposed to be a close range powerhouse, but it was weaker than the long range powerhouse. So then all of its damage at any range was buffed massively, so it almost doesn't even matter how close you are.

[ShinMaruku]

Force could be haped with an actual expansive pp pool.. I feel for some of the techs we have having 200-400 would work. Take that with faster charging with more pp

[The Walrus]

Let classes gain PP as they level \o/

[yoshiblue]

Make all techs useful by allowing chains to happen. Over 1000 combinations!!!

[UnLucky]

Force could be haped with an actual expansive pp pool.. I feel for some of the techs we have having 200-400 would work. Take that with faster charging with more pp
Well it was supposed to be balanced with lower PP cost on techs, hovering around 20 per cast instead of 30 for PAs.

But then you get prenerfed lightning techs to balance spending 10 SP for less PP.

And then Heel Stab's 20 PP cost, and Shunka is still 30 (Fudou is 40, did they switch them by mistake?).

Compare Backhand's 45 PP for ~1200 Power vs Nafoie's 35 PP for ~350 Power (which is oddly closer to ~750 Power, but still).

Namegid which was supposed to be Force's boss killer actually has lower DPS than Samegid due to how long it takes to charge. It's ridiculous.

[ShinMaruku]

It will get addressed some time. But I feel it will be overtuned like all their other things.

[landman]

Am I the only FO not offended when the boss dies before the 6 seconds I need to Namegid it? I'm still having fun with it, some SH bosses take too long soloing them still, but in party I'm always having fun.

I'd wish for more tech combos like ignited zondeel, only for fun's sake, Zan + Foie = firestorm or something like that, like in the old Algolian days. And blue flamed Foie, need lvl 40 Foie. Quick.

[Yutaka20]

lol if u all didnt nottice it,FO ice is becoming a popular build becos of this BR boost.
ever sincethe start of PSO2 ,everyone kept complaining about how OP FO is (namegid)
and how useless ice is.
now that they finally made it shine ,we have FO whose complaining about how they sux now lol.
geez. if u cant blast everything,support ur team then ._.*

[The Walrus]

But support is awful in this game...

[Arksenth]

Ice popular?

Even after all those megabuffs and now all these nice crafting recipes for ice, I STILL never see Ice.

Freezing things isn't even good support especially in SH, because it scatters mobs and prevents them from grouping.

[Inazuma]

Tector main/Force subclass
Mag with 7 S-attack, the rest T-attack
Elysion
Sazan 16
Sazan crafted to have -10 pp reduction or very close to it
Skill trees based around using uncharged Sazan and Namegido (Force trees included!)
A gunslash with the 30% faster PP regen latent

If you can do all this, you will be far from useless. Not only will you be able to actually attack the enemies, unlike with charged techs from a talis, but your DPS will be very high. You will contribute a great deal to the party and MPAs.

I know there is a lot of effort and luck involved to accomplish all this, but if you manage to pull this off, you will see that Force is actually rather good.

[ShinMaruku]

Tector main/Force subclass
Mag with 7 S-attack, the rest T-attack
Elysion
Sazan 16
Sazan crafted to have -10 pp reduction or very close to it
Skill trees based around using uncharged Sazan and Namegido (Force trees included!)
A gunslash with the 30% faster PP regen latent

If you can do all this, you will be far from useless. Not only will you be able to actually attack the enemies, unlike with charged techs from a talis, but your DPS will be very high. You will contribute a great deal to the party and MPAs.

I know there is a lot of effort and luck involved to accomplish all this, but if you manage to pull this off, you will see that Force is actually rather good.
I have all this but the wand so >_>

[Inazuma]

I have all this but the wand so >_>

Good chance we will be able to trade 11 stars this Spring. One way or another, you should get your Elysion soon.

[Arksenth]

<_< Why would you subclass FO if you're only using Wind/Dark uncharged attacks? It's not like you need PP Charge Revival. Sub FI and get more damage on top of easy self-buffing or something.

[landman]

<_< Why would you subclass FO if you're only using Wind/Dark uncharged attacks? It's not like you need PP Charge Revival. Sub FI and get more damage on top of easy self-buffing or something.

FO has the bonus for uncharged techs, which is the purpose of the Elysion.

[KatsuraJun]

FO has the bonus for uncharged techs, which is the purpose of the Elysion.

1.1 vs 1.44/1.69

HMM I WONDER.


Not to mention Fighter stances apply to melee whacks too.

[Inazuma]

<_< Why would you subclass FO if you're only using Wind/Dark uncharged attacks? It's not like you need PP Charge Revival. Sub FI and get more damage on top of easy self-buffing or something.

That's debatable for Sazan, but not for Namegido. You have to charge it for about one second to use the uncharged version, so PP Charge Revival is crucial.

Fighter is annoying with the whole Brave/Wise Stance thing. In optimal situations with Sazan, it could be a better subclass than Force, but overall Force wins. I have all of the general damage skills (except the charge ones) plus 10 PP on my Force tree.

And even if you are doing a quest where Namegido isn't needed, you will still use support techs, including Zondeel. PP Charge Revival is helpful there, along with the 5 points of Bolt Tech PP Save.

Uncharged Sazan has poor AOE, so if there is a large spawn of enemies, you use Zondeel. That is, if there isn't a shit Force spamming Zonde, which still happens all the time in MPAs...

[Arksenth]

One second basically reduces your pp cost for Namegid from 60 to 53 pp by refunding 7 pp with pp restraint; but in exchange, you only get 1.21x damage with both normal charge up and technique JA, compared to the 1.44x and 1.69x boosts of FI on top of long duration shiftas and chase bonuses plus wand strikes being viable. And if you're using Zondeel anyway, wand gear with FI subclass is a way better mobbing tool than any tech being free, faster, and regenerating all your pp.

7 pp isn't a huge deal there.

[Inazuma]

One second basically reduces your pp cost for Namegid from 60 to 53 pp by refunding 7 pp with pp restraint; but in exchange, you only get 1.21x damage with both normal charge up and technique JA, compared to the 1.44x and 1.69x boosts of FI on top of long duration shiftas and chase bonuses plus wand strikes being viable. And if you're using Zondeel anyway, wand gear with FI subclass is a way better mobbing tool than any tech being free, faster, and regenerating all your pp.

7 pp isn't a huge deal there.

You are forgetting about the PP regen photon blast and/or PP Convert. I will often use one or both when I'm spamming Namegido.

[KatsuraJun]

okay I might have gotten lost here in this conversation but

what does Ketos Proi and PP Convert, a techer skill, have to do with subbing FO?

[UnLucky]

PP Charge Revival, a Force skill, allows for natural PP regen while charging techs.

Ketos Proi, PP Recovery J, PP Restraint, PP Convert, Super Treatment, and Crazy Heart all boost natural PP regen.

However, those do nothing at all while charging a tech unless you have PP Charge Revival.