Tech crafting worth it?

[Original_DFO]

Now we all know by now that crafting weapons suck. This is assuming you have top tier SH equips of course.

But what about techs?

The reason i'm asking is cuz most of my sexy techs are at lvl16 now. I'm only missing Safoie, Sazan,, shifta, deband. Those are lvl 15.

So i dont wanna ruin my sexy lvl 16 techs with some junk crafted techs!!

[Arada]

After you craft a tech, you have the option to not learn it instead of your current tech. So it's very safe.
If you get good results, fine.
If you get shit stuff, then just discard the disc.

[UnLucky]

Some are good, some decent, some trash. Check the Crafting Achievement & Recipes thread (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3087255) to compare the stats to see if a certain recipe is worth it or not.

Faster charging is usually a good idea, and lower SE rate is mostly inconsequential. Oh, and faster interval is really nice on Rabarta and support, since it gives a whole extra tick.

[Terrence]

Many Rabarta and Many Resta are wonderful indeed. I like Intensity Nazan too to clear up in Solo SH.

[Inazuma]

The custom Resta is horrible, for a few reasons.

- It reduces the amount of HP recovered per tick, so if you use uncharged Resta a lot like I do, it only makes it harder to get back to full HP.

- Unlike Shifta, if you do a full charge custom Resta and run away, you won't recieve any more ticks than default Resta. Once again, this means less HP recovered.

- The only time that custom Resta can possibly surpass default Resta is if you have a shit load of HP, and you do a full charge and stand around long enough for all 5 ticks to hit. If you often play with people who have over 1000 HP, maybe you could justify getting it.

The custom Shifta is extremely good, but Resta fucking sucks. Thankfully I tested it on an alt character before permanently gimping my main character.

[Terrence]

Does it suck because Inazuma-Sama declared this a feature ? ;-)

It lowers (by a very few points) the amount of HP restored indeed. But the way it restores them is better in my opinion since it allows players to gain more ticks (which means more HP) without having to stand still for too long.

Well, I'm a FIghter/TEcher. I can restore around 250 HP per tick with my custom Resta now and this change was well received by all my teammates. However, a crafted Resta may be worse than a default Resta for FOrces (high base T-ATK).

[Coatl]

Did you know how much you could heal before then? I can heal about 440 as TE/HU and I don't want it to drop down to 300 >_<.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, I considered customizing Resta and felt that it sounded shit... so I didn't.

I regret customizing my Zonde.
I kinda prefer having near infinite Zonde than casting it faster.

It's bullshit that we can't reset techs.
SEGA has to have the worst game design ever. It's like their minds are perpetually stuck in a blizzard where they can't see more than a few centimeters ahead.

[Coatl]

They already said they are going to release items to reset your tech disc though.

[TaigaUC]

I know, but why is something that basic not implemented to begin with? They had ample time to do so.
It's like they never even considered it until people asked.

I don't think I've played any other game with such poorly thought-out systems.

Remember Sakai's responses to questions about TW PSO2?
No need for a party system, because people form parties pretty quickly anyway!
Not going to fix that. Not going to fix that! Not going to fix that!!

The crafting achievements chart is such a terrible mess. There's no sense of hierarchy.
They probably cut and pasted their Bingo GUI code or some shit.

[Coatl]

I think it is pretty well thought out. I mean they came out with the 10% merit,demerit and multi class boosters like a week after they released the crafting system. I'm pretty sure they do this on purpose really, lol. As annoying and greedy as it is.

[TaigaUC]

It's only well-thought out in terms of filling their pockets with cash.

It's not well-thought out in terms of efficient interface design, gameplay balance or game design, or what players want from the game, etc.

[gigawuts]

It's only well-thought out in terms of filling their pockets with cash.

It's not well-thought out in terms of efficient interface design, gameplay balance or game design, or what players want from the game, etc.

This.

To reply to tech crafting:
It's definitely worth it for a lot of techs, even some with demerits that look like they'd be significant. The cheaper Foie for instance is just sublime. I didn't even luck out that much with my best one, which is -7 PP - but let me tell you, 13 PP Foie is just fantastic. It's completely gamechanging.

-PP Cost Barta is also pretty fantastic and I love it.

Currently working towards the other mandatory PP reduction tech: Sazan. Only two hours to go. I already know it's godly, I just can't say so from firsthand experience.

[Terrence]

Did you know how much you could heal before then? I can heal about 440 as TE/HU and I don't want it to drop down to 300 >_<.
I was healing around 300 HP per tick before. But my teammate were usually taking only 1 or 2 of them. Now, that's only 250 HP per tick but they always take 3 of them at least...

[MetalDude]

I went from 419HP a tick to 380HP or so. Seems pretty negligible to me so I don't really see the gripe. I also use TB a ton and I put Resta on the field almost immediately when I notice someone knocked over, which is more than enough time to catch them and fully heal them. I'd hardly say it sucks.

[TaigaUC]

I spent some money on techs today and they all came back with shit results.
"Success" my f'n ass.

Die, SEGA.

SEGA should patent their shitty interface design.
I already have the perfect name for it: "THE CLUSTERFUCK".

[Edson Drake]

I spent some money on techs today and they all came back with shit results.
"Success" my f'n ass.

Die, SEGA.

SEGA should patent their shitty interface design.
I already have the perfect name for it: "THE CLUSTERFUCK".

Well it could be worse, like... grinding or affixing, imagine the terror.

It doesn't fix Forces or Techers but it's fun to make your spells different. The only really, really useful recipes are the Efficient ones. Those are indeed game changers.

It's awesome being able to spam techs over and over and never run out of PP. If only we had better dps though(trying to avoid being a dps freak here). Free Grantz, Free Zonde(if you have PP reduction though), Free Foi. Still need Foi, can't wait to use even though I don't have Fire mastery.

[TaigaUC]

That's like saying PSO2 isn't that bad because I could catch Ebola.
Comparison doesn't justify anything. Fact is, it's still crap.
Grinding and affixing are crappier, yes. They're all crap. They could all be way better.

I still can't understand why people thought crafting was SEGA's solution to grinding/affixing.
Especially since they basically told us to go fuck ourselves and affix 250 dex/abi to fix their shitty secret crafting damage variance.

[UnLucky]

Did you know how much you could heal before then? I can heal about 440 as TE/HU and I don't want it to drop down to 300 >_<.

It's about a 10% drop, less if you get a good roll on the demerit, which isn't too hard since there's no variance on the merit.

My uncharged Resta did about 100 per tick, now it's 88.

The ticks happen really fast so you get to full HP quicker and can tank attacks that might have twoshot you even while standing in the old Resta. And you do get a third tick when running out of it, even if you jump. And on that note, you can get both ticks uncharged if you jump it, which you couldn't before.

[TaigaUC]

Imagine if we could freely choose between customize versions and default.
Would certainly be nice.

[Original_DFO]

So what I gather thus far is that I should go for the PP reduction recepies?

It also seems like TaigaUC hates this game. Maybe you should quit because you are clearly not having fun with this game ^^;

Also, please stay on topic this isnt a "lets rant about how much we hate the crafting system thread" i'm asking this in a polite manner so I hope you can respect this request. Thank you.

[UnLucky]

Imagine if we could freely choose between customize versions and default.
Would certainly be nice.
So long as we could unlearn, or at least hide certain techs from the list, I'd love to see them all available to select. Even multiple recipes for each.

I always hated having to scroll down through all the ice techs to get to Zonde whenever I switched classes. Why can't I just forget all these worthless techs I'll never use?

And even if they did become good, it would only be at lv20 so I'd need to relearn them anyway.

[TaigaUC]

There's a difference between hating something and expressing frustration for how it could be so much better.
I don't know why everyone has so much trouble distinguishing the difference.

I think we've already established that Tech Customization is useful in some circumstances, but isn't anything particularly amazing.
I honestly feel that many of the benefits should've been there to begin with.
It's also risky if you're not careful, because you can't reset to default... yet (for some reason).

You did ask if tech crafting is worth it. My complaints are part of why it's not worth it.
It's probably a good idea to wait until they add more recipes and the ability to reset to default techs.
By that time, all the prices will have dropped, and everyone else will have levelled their crafting.

[Edson Drake]

You did ask if tech crafting is worth it. My complaints are part of why it's not worth it.
It's probably a good idea to wait until they add more recipes and the ability to reset to default techs.
By that time, all the prices will have dropped, and everyone else will have levelled their crafting.


You're mostly right, but it's not better to wait. Experiment away if you're curious, it's not like there's a risk, you don't need to apply the Custom Techs and you will need those levels you get by getting achievements. If anything you only lose Meseta and materials. Meh, they drop so easily in the Limited Quest anyway.

[MetalDude]

So what I gather thus far is that I should go for the PP reduction recepies?
Mostly yeah. There's a couple like quick charge Zan for Wand Gear purposes, or any quick charge technics if you put points into PP Convert (and even without it, Zondeel + speed charge Gifoie/Ramegid is so awesome). I liked quick charge Zonde initially, but I'm really not impressed as much now and will probs change to PP reduction for infinite Zonde.

[Original_DFO]

So i need to "lvl up" my crafting abilities in order to craft techs? I'm a lil lost now :o

Can someone explain this a lil further :)

and fair enough taigaUC.

[UnLucky]

You don't have all the recipes available from the start, you need to get achievements first. That, and levels in general help for extra crafting lines and slightly better odds on merit/demerit values.

[MetalDude]

You can craft technics right from the get go, just not all of them nor the second recipes for all of them. Complete achievements to unlock more recipes.

EDIT: Ninjas yo.

[KazukiQZ]

Should have let each Tech has 2 slots in the Tech list, one is default (can never be erased) and the custom one (which can be replaced again and again with Tech crafting)

[TaigaUC]

You're mostly right, but it's not better to wait. Experiment away if you're curious, it's not like there's a risk, you don't need to apply the Custom Techs and you will need those levels you get by getting achievements. If anything you only lose Meseta and materials. Meh, they drop so easily in the Limited Quest anyway.

Yeah, I take back what I said.
A few customizations are probably worth getting.

Anyway, after thinking about it, I also wanted to say that PSO2 is one of those games where if you wait a while and come back, everything will be better (ie. balance, easier to level, easier to gear up, etc). You just miss out on the incentives they use to keep us playing, like the limited events and costumes.
But if you wait long enough they bring those back too, so...

And I'm totally expecting them to make the tech resetting really nasty.
Something like, "you can only reset all techs, not just one" and it'll probably be an AC scratch item, like an AC reset all techs pass.
That might be why they held it back.... so that people don't think twice about walking into a potential AC/refarming trap.

The current recipes are numbered, too. I wonder what that means.

[Original_DFO]

Hey guys, can only lvl 16 techs be crafted?

If not how does this actually work? Say that I craft a lvl 11 tech then I find a lvl 16 tech what happens then? Will the lvl 16 non crafted disc overwrite the lvl 11 crafted tech? I dont get this.

[UnLucky]

You can only overwrite techs with crafted techs. You can't return to the original version (at the moment, anyway).

The effect is added to whatever level of tech you have. Doesn't matter what level it was or will be, the crafted effect will be the same regardless.


So if you've got lv10 Foie (255 Power, 20PP) and use a crafted disc that gives +25 Power for +5PP, you will have lv10 Flaming Foie (280 Power, 25PP). If you learn lv15 Foie (285 Power, 20PP), you will end up with lv15 Flaming Foie (310 Power, 25PP). If you then use another crafted disc that gives -10PP, you will instead have lv15 Efficient Foie (285 Power, 10PP).

[TaigaUC]

Just going to post this here:
The PP cost reduction customization for Barta seems great for freezing enemies at long distances.
It's particularly useful for Tower Defense.

[MetalDude]

So yeah, there's this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rik-s8xJEYI

A FO/FI build using custom Barta and Half-Line Boost to make it freeze 99% of the time. I am very curious to see how effective this is in a number of scenarios so badly. But I'm also wondering then, how is HLB calculated into the proc rate? It says 2 at 5SP, but I don't know specifically what that means.

[UnLucky]

Crafted Barta * Freeze Boost * Halfline Boost

(30+15)*1.1*2 = 99

[MetalDude]

This seems like it would be really useful in groups as support with Freeze Keep on top of it. Rabarta would be running a 66% freeze chance which with the cast interval one would be incredibly good.

Now if only Freeze Keep wasn't so far down the damn ice branch to make you lose out on other essentials...

[Omega-z]

Actually, as a FO/FI or FI/FO it's higher.

for full boost it's:

Crafted Barta * Freeze Boost * Photon Flare Boost * Halfline Boost

(30+15)*1.1*1.2*2 = 118.8% or 100%

Barta at 100%
Na-Barta at 97.68%
Ra-Barta at 92.4%

+ Ice Keep

without Boost it's:

Barta at 99%
Na-Barta at 81.4%
Ra-Barta at 77%

+ Opt. Ice Keep

And using TE instead:

Barta at 90%
Na-Barta at 74%
Ra-Barta at 70%

Without FI

as a FO

Barta at 49.5%~59.4%
Na-Barta at 40.7~48.84%
Ra-Barta at 38.5%~46.2%

+ Opt. Ice Keep

as a TE

Barta at 45%
Na-Barta at 37%
Ra-Barta at 35%

I didn't add Gi-Barta and Sa-Barta to the list since there not high enough at max, they're both at 44.88% with everything tho.

[TaigaUC]

"Photon Flare Tactics"?
Does the English patch have fancy new names for everything now?

The other day, I was telling my friend which Braver skills to put points into, but as he uses the English patch, he was confused by the different names.
It's like Claw, Hat and Boxer. Unnecessary confusion.

[Omega-z]

@TaigaUC - it's Photon Flare Boost actually, It was once called Tactics instead of Boost (going off the PSO2 Skill Simulator back then). Sorry about the goof up.

[TaigaUC]

No problem. I thought it was another English patch thing.

Honestly, "tactics" sounds better, but I prefer to leave stuff as is for consistent communication's sake.
SEGA is just as much to blame for their boring confusing names.

[UnLucky]

It would be a gimmick build for sure, since 20 SP spent for the little extra freeze chance, the majority of which only during PF, is not worth the huge damage loss, especially considering you also need to be at half health for Halfline Bonus.

As for the skill names, the patch generally uses the internal English names right from Sega, so if there's any confusion it's their fault.

Though which skills were different? Braver's skill tree from what I can see is entirely in "English" (Katakana) so it would all be a direct translation no matter how bad your language proficiency.

[jooozek]

that freeze build seems amazing, since forces are pretty useless offensively i just might reset my tree for that shit

[Kondibon]

I think that freeze build would be great for TD, but probably not general gameplay.

[Omega-z]

Even if it is a gimmicky build it would be pretty good as a lock-down support build. Since you can Zondeel then freeze(also added Ice Keep for duration) and bind from a distance. And you can also set your HP in a way that you can drop it down to 50% at any time you need to with PF+HP weapon swap. Then if any mob were close enough you can FIng. them.(since this has added distance)

I think The Ice tree has a better purpose/role now but its not powerful in stand alone damage since it can lock foes for others to finish off freely without any retaliation, so making it more of a support role.

[TaigaUC]

Ice is so crappy that it ought to work that way without needing to have such a specific setup.

[gigawuts]

Freeze is a stupid SE in this game and this highlights that pretty well.

A slow effect, yes sure. A complete lockdown that even blocks vacuum? Come on. No.

[Omega-z]

@TaigaUC - I agree Ice should of been like this or better from the start.

@gigawuts - Why would you need to worry about Vacuum after lockdown? The Zondeel would be used before any such thing took place and much better to hit every thing in one hit with freeze. Take TD as example, Having a main FO/FI in Ice and a main TE/HU with a TB Zondeel and Wry Cry would stop and own mobs. Also the FO/FI could take advantage of Fr. Ing. when the towers freeze any of the mobs.

Ice Build can be pretty decent in TD and Solo(if your quip. correctly). But for MPA's or parties the set up is to slow still other than getting a quick Barta out here or there. Since groups just melt everything to quickly.

[gigawuts]

TPS Barta at a distance -> get close enough for zondeel -> vacuum -> use higher damage moves

this is why you'd need to worry about vacuum after lockdown

same as any other situation

as a rule its better to not arbitrarily block abilities or limit player control

[Omega-z]

Hmm, I see your point but could you use a card then Zondeel or Zondeel then to Barta even possibly uncharged and on to higher mod damage/Techs/moves.

^This might just be me playing TE for so long. I can group 12 + foes in one normal non TB Charged Zondeel. But yeah having the safety of having the foes frozen before Zondeel would be better in this situation as a FO having 50% or less HP.

[gigawuts]

It's not even just that though, what about when other people freeze enemies you're about to zondeel? Or even your mag?

It's just a dumb idea to block vacuum on frozen stuff.

[Arksenth]

It's not even just that though, what about when other people freeze enemies you're about to zondeel? Or even your mag?

It's just a dumb idea to block vacuum on frozen stuff.

Tower Defense.

:wacko:

BURST BARRIER!!!

Well there goes taking down all of those mobs in one hit.

It's okay we can spend a full minute running around the tower and killing them one by one.

[Kondibon]

It's not even just that though, what about when other people freeze enemies you're about to zondeel? Or even your mag?

It's just a dumb idea to block vacuum on frozen stuff.
In an ideal world people would be coordinated enough for that not to happen. Most theory crafting involves an ideal world. x:

[UnLucky]

You get 90% freeze rate with a pure offensive Fo/Fi (ice build) though, so I don't feel it's worth 10-20SP solely to slightly increase your Freeze chance.

Also if you have mobs Zondeeled already, Freeze becomes less necessary. It would only help for enemies with super armor who could escape the Zondeel, but then they would be scattered anyway, so Freeze wouldn't be helpful (but another Zondeel would be, which becomes impossible after Freeze!).

Not to mention Rabarta would be a much better option post talis+Zondeel, which has a 35% (70% with HLB) Freeze rate per hit (all five) with good damage as well. Or, you know, anything that deals pure damage after a Zondeel to kill them before Freeze ever becomes worthwhile.


And are you sure any of these tactics would work? As in, Photon Flare to trigger Halfline Boost? How can you reliably use that to drop below 50% HP? Even maxed, it only brings you down to 70%, which still keeps your old HP value unless you heal. Also does Ignition even work on the special freeze effect from the tower barrier?

[gigawuts]

Ignition won't work on goldrahdas, I know that much - and they're what you'd really want it for anyway.

[Omega-z]

@UnLucky - The Ignition working on the special freeze effect from the tower barrier is a shot in the dark and The old HP drop trick isn't as effective anymore so nothing to worry about.

[UnLucky]

Maybe if that Limit Break thing from Fighter's datamined skills ever comes out... though you'd still have to do a quick Resta or something to actually drop your HP.

[Rakurai]

I'm a little torn about which Zan customization to use.

If it wasn't for the speed increase on the power boosting customization, I'd be using the reduced charge time one for certain, as it seems like the increased projectile speed lets each Zan make more passes before they lose enough altitude to hit me and cancel out.

[Sandmind]

Looking at it an another way, faster Zan bomerang could mean they lose altitude faster and less time to dodge them, no?