Ranting about JP and English Players

[Inazuma]

So we can look forward to more players who think they are playing an English game? People who think it's cool to be stupid loud assholes, or who speak English in public MPAs assuming everyone else understand them. People who play the game in a selfish way, have little consideration for others and no sense of teamwork. And people who don't spend money on AC.

AIDA, you have helped many English players to play PSO2, which sounds like a good thing. But it actually has done more harm than good. The Japanese players always complained about these kinds of players. Some of them have moved to other ships because of how bad ship 2 has gotten. I play with Japanese players a lot and many of them are very upset about it. I'm upset about it too because I didn't expect Ship 2 to get this bad.

The English patch is largely to blame. If there was no English patch, then people would need to learn some Japanese to fully enjoy the game. There would be less English players in general, and they would be better behaved and more dedicated. They would talk to and play with the Japanese players, and they would learn that being an asshole is a bad thing and that teamwork is important.

I'm sure Sega is receiving complaints about this all the time. On ship 2, the English population continues to grow while the Japanese population shrinks. New Japanese players avoid ship 2. It's gotten to the point where it's a major problem and if this keeps up, something big could end up happening.

The best thing would be an official English version. The next best thing would be to block the English patch. Sega needs to do something because Ship 2 is a mess right now.

Anyone else here who plays with Japanese players on a regular basis who can back me up on this? Or anyone who plays with Japanese players who disagrees with me?

[Totori]

The English patch is largely to blame. If there was no English patch, then people would need to learn some Japanese to fully enjoy the game. There would be less English players in general, and they would be better behaved and more dedicated. They would talk to and play with the Japanese players, and they would learn that being an asshole is a bad thing and that teamwork is important.

Anyone else here who plays with Japanese players on a regular basis who can back me up on this? Or anyone who plays with Japanese players who disagrees with me?

That's an extremely baseless complaint, do you have anything to back that up. Because all the JP players I teamed up with haven't kicked me, and I also have quite a few friend invites from them.

If the English Patch didn't exist, you still wouldn't need to learn Japanese to get through in this game. The menu's are so easy to navigate it's not harder than looking at a guide.

It really sounds like you only seen crummy players, English or not.

And the Japanese population hasn't been shrinking it's quite active, not active during NA hours of course. Ship 2 is far from a mess.

[EvilMag]

I'm with Totori on this. the JPs I've played really enjoy my kind. They appreciate me speaking to them through Google translate. I remember one of them even asked me if she could meet up with my team and she really enjoyed us.

I was also able to memorize all the menus in like a few days when the game first came out so you can throw the "English patch makes people play the game" out of the window.

[Cadfael]

So we can look forward to more players who think they are playing an English game? People who think it's cool to be stupid loud assholes, or who speak English in public MPAs assuming everyone else understand them. People who play the game in a selfish way, have little consideration for others and no sense of teamwork. And people who don't spend money on AC.

AIDA, you have helped many English players to play PSO2, which sounds like a good thing. But it actually has done more harm than good. The Japanese players always complained about these kinds of players. Some of them have moved to other ships because of how bad ship 2 has gotten. I play with Japanese players a lot and many of them are very upset about it. I'm upset about it too because I didn't expect Ship 2 to get this bad.

The English patch is largely to blame. If there was no English patch, then people would need to learn some Japanese to fully enjoy the game. There would be less English players in general, and they would be better behaved and more dedicated. They would talk to and play with the Japanese players, and they would learn that being an asshole is a bad thing and that teamwork is important.

I'm sure Sega is receiving complaints about this all the time. On ship 2, the English population continues to grow while the Japanese population shrinks. New Japanese players avoid ship 2. It's gotten to the point where it's a major problem and if this keeps up, something big could end up happening.

The best thing would be an official English version. The next best thing would be to block the English patch. Sega needs to do something because Ship 2 is a mess right now.

Anyone else here who plays with Japanese players on a regular basis who can back me up on this? Or anyone who plays with Japanese players who disagrees with me?

Because some players (mostly on B20) are dicks, AIDA's patch is ruining the game, and every non-Japanese player is a dick by association? I'm not sure I follow your logic.

[Inazuma]

That's an extremely baseless complaint, do you have anything to back that up. Because all the JP players I teamed up with haven't kicked me, and I also have quite a few friend invites from them.

If the English Patch didn't exist, you still wouldn't need to learn Japanese to get through in this game. The menu's are so easy to navigate it's not harder than looking at a guide.

It really sounds like you only seen crummy players, English or not.

And the Japanese population hasn't been shrinking it's quite active, not active during NA hours of course. Ship 2 is far from a mess.

Do you speak Japanese when you play with Japanese players? That would make a difference in how willing they are to complain about English players to you. I should have clarified that.

[Totori]

Do you speak Japanese when you play with Japanese players? That would make a difference in how willing they are to complain about English players to you. I should have clarified that.

I speak English, and very openly. Most JP players won't even bother to speak out in chat. But that doesn't limit me from using Japanese if need be.

But the way you put it, they seem rather assy that they would only complain about "English" Players, to you due to your name.

But still do you have anything to back up what you said in the first place?

[pkemr4]

most japanese players i party with dont really care much if im a english speaker.

[Ratazana]

Inazuma has a point.

You have several kinds of jp. The average jp don't give a fuck, the jp version of weeaboo loves to interact with importers. Some teams even "adopt" one as a mascot to show off.

The only group that matters, the hardcore type that expends a lot of meseta/ac together with their followers (2ch collective) hates importers. This is the most vocal group, and the only one that holds any sway over segac.

Japanese people are very peculiar and have all those nonsensical rules that they expect everyone to follow. The japanese gold rule here is "when in rome, do as the roman's do". As long as you follow this one you won't have any trouble. Even if the client is in english, it really pays off to know at least a little japanese so you can communicate with the natives and learn what rules you are supposed to follow.

[Inazuma]

I speak English, and very openly. Most JP players won't even bother to speak out in chat. But that doesn't limit me from using Japanese if need be.

But the way you put it, they seem rather assy that they would only complain about "English" Players, to you due to your name.

But still do you have anything to back up what you said in the first place?

Only thousands of hours playing and talking with Japanese players, in Japanese. Not even just on PSO2. I've been doing this since PSOBB. I know what I'm talking about. I'm the only foreigner in my team, also.

Anyone who knows Japanese and who has spent a lot of time playing with the Japanese who can add their two cents here?

By the way, I am not saying that the Japanese hate people just for being foreigners. They just generally dislike bad people. It's not that crazy if you understand their point of view. They have a lot of respect for foreigners who are polite and considerate. Same thing if they see you are trying to learn the Japanese language and/or Japanese culture/manners. I couldn't tell you how many times they sent me friend requests when they find out I'm actually American.

[Totori]

You know, a thing such as "Bad Japanese people" do exist. Still it sounds like you only really knew about some really racist JP players. I can't see their point of view, it's completely ridiculous.

[Fleur]

These are the best kind of gaijins. Spamming chat with shitty autowords every 5 seconds. This is just a little bit of what I've seen in LQ lately on B10.

http://i.imgur.com/38nQf9Z.jpg

[Pyrii]

I just use normal english in my autowords. SHort simple stuff, nothing fancy and I don't autoword every action. I also know a little Japanese and have Japanese Short-cut words (Namely Hello and thank you) and this has earnt me a few Japanese friends in-game who just appreciate the fact that I do try to integrate even with what little knowledge I have and that I'm open to learning.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said for most English-speaking players. And I have met players from Germany, Italy etc.

[Inazuma]

You know, a thing such as "Bad Japanese people" do exist. Still it sounds like you only really knew about some really racist JP players. I can't see their point of view, it's completely ridiculous.

"Bad" meaning "shitty player"? If we are talking about player skill, tons of Japanese players are horrible at PSO2. However generally speaking, Japanese players are far more skilled than English players. It's a massive difference. Not only are they generally better at the game, but they have a better sense of teamwork and cooperation, so even a weak player can contribute to the party. If you have a problem with someone, you can usually solve the problem right away by talking to them about it. Most of the time they willing to work it out.

Or "Bad" meaning "asshole"? In all of my thousands of hours playing and talking with Japanese players in PSOBB, PSU and PSO2, only a small handful have been jerks. It's extremely rare. Psycho Wand rare. In PSOBB, we would drop all of the rares we found from the quest on the floor in town, do rock paper scissors to determine the order, and then take turns picking up the rares. I did that literally thousands of times and not even once did someone steal something and run.

Same goes for item trades. Even though PSOBB had a proper trade window, we would often just drop the items on the floor because it was quicker. I did trades like this at least 30 times and only once did someone take my item and disconnect.... only to return a minute later and apologize for getting disconnected. We resumed the trade like normal.

It is very rare for a Japanese player to be a jerk, even a little bit. It almost never happens. The closest you can find to this would be someone who sucks at the game and unknowingly does something that upsets others. If you talk to them about it, you can probably handle it.

[Pyrii]

Yeah, the Japanese have a culture that frowns on such dishonesty, and while there is always exceptions to the rule, they are thankfully in the few.

To understand the Japanese, you have to understand that it isn't just a different language, but also a different society with differing rules, culture, ways of thinking.

[Totori]

By bad I do mean Jerk, I couldn't care for skill each player can have their own playstyle. Believe it or not Jerky Japanese players do exist, it's not something unheard of. Check many MMO's some JP players even go outta the way to blacklist known foreign players.

[jooozek]

you know, i would actually like SEGAC to start banning for openly talking in english, it's just so retarded to see all that spam unfold just because SEGAC isn't actively banning people; they all seem to believe they can just shit everywhere on everything

[Gardios]

These are the best kind of gaijins. Spamming chat with shitty autowords every 5 seconds. This is just a little bit of what I've seen in LQ lately on B10.

img

This is not exclusive to English players.

[Fleur]

This is not exclusive to English players.

I don't see JP players spamming English autowords or "rez pls" constantly in local.

[nightman]

Inazumamamamamamamama, If you for a second think that SEGA is going to listen to people complaining about English players, then you have another thingk coming to you. We generate them income and are a pretty large user base. Not only that, if those Japanese players don't like playing with us, guess what? THEY CAN GO FUCKING PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE. MAGIC RIGHT?! WELL GUESS WHAT? SINCE AIDA RELEASE AN ENGLISH PATCH NOW I CAN DO THE SAME THING! I CAN PLAY WITH WHOEVER I WANT TO? Isn't that magic bro?

Next time you say something like this, stop yourself and ask: is it really a good idea for me to post in a mostly English speaking forum about a game called phantasy star and talk about how we shouldn't play the game we obviously enjoy? Magic is in the fuckin air.

[jooozek]

region block incoming in 3... 2... 1...

[Sandmind]

To be 100% honest, I got no counter point to Inazuma, since I didn't try to communicate with the jpn players. I simply try to improve my playstyle, but not always sure if I'm going in the right direction. Nor do I know the state of ship2 vs the rest or read 2ch.

Concerning nightman's "kind" word: That would had been an ok option if EQ and random mpa auto matching didn't exist. Sadly, concerning this very specific point about us foreigner, it does exist.

[btw-Niji]

These are the best kind of gaijins. Spamming chat with shitty autowords every 5 seconds. This is just a little bit of what I've seen in LQ lately on B10.

http://i.imgur.com/38nQf9Z.jpg
Oh god, lol. The cringe is strong here.

[Nitro Vordex]

ITT: Sweeping generalizations.

[Macman]

Stay out of B-20.

[Pyrii]

The analogy I can come to is how people find it annoying when US/English speaking game servers are "invaded" by tons of Philippine players. Who just don't bother applying common sense and don't bother trying to speak English.

A lot of the English community, especially B20 residents can be viewed like that. But there are gems among the crowd that truly do care about trying to be part of the whole community

[RedRaz0r]

This is the MOST racist thread I have EVER seen on PSOW. How is such a gross and ignorant thread still going?

[Shadowth117]

This is the MOST racist thread I have EVER seen on PSOW. How is such a gross and ignorant thread still going?

I dunno man. Like with a lot of Inazuma's posts though, I would love to know what his audience is.

Like bro, Ina, what's your aim here? All I'm getting from this is "lol you gaijin pplz are stupid and bad and like like should stop play because ur baddddddd... and stupid yeah!". I would legitimately like to understand what you hope for a thread like this to accomplish. You are posting this on a forum where 99.999% of the people reading your thread are the very same population you seem to think shouldn't be playing this game. I can't even fathom what you hope to gain from trying to explain to an entire community that they're wrong for playing a game because they don't happen to be a final form weeaboo.

I am sorry, but I have literally no idea what you or anyone else hopes to gain with this. Offensive or not, these shenanigans are just silly and ultimately pointless.

[gigawuts]

Whoever split this thread: Thank you for the topic title.

edit: Wait, this was split from another thread right? Please tell me this thread wasn't created like this.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

So we can look forward to more players who think they are playing an English game? People who think it's cool to be stupid loud assholes, or who speak English in public MPAs assuming everyone else understand them. People who play the game in a selfish way, have little consideration for others and no sense of teamwork. And people who don't spend money on AC.

AIDA, you have helped many English players to play PSO2, which sounds like a good thing. But it actually has done more harm than good. The Japanese players always complained about these kinds of players. Some of them have moved to other ships because of how bad ship 2 has gotten. I play with Japanese players a lot and many of them are very upset about it. I'm upset about it too because I didn't expect Ship 2 to get this bad.

The English patch is largely to blame. If there was no English patch, then people would need to learn some Japanese to fully enjoy the game. There would be less English players in general, and they would be better behaved and more dedicated. They would talk to and play with the Japanese players, and they would learn that being an asshole is a bad thing and that teamwork is important.

I'm sure Sega is receiving complaints about this all the time. On ship 2, the English population continues to grow while the Japanese population shrinks. New Japanese players avoid ship 2. It's gotten to the point where it's a major problem and if this keeps up, something big could end up happening.

Ship transfers exist, which cost AC.

Foreigners are paying for AC.

SEGA has nothing to gain from going on a gaijin hunt.

B20 =/= ship 2. For the most part, the stupid stay there, and do TAs with their own. I don't see these problems for a simple reason; I don't go to b20, and TA with team/JP randoms on b30. I can avoid the problem for the most part as easily as anyone else.



I'd so very much like to say something constructive, but...


The best thing would be an official English version. The next best thing would be to block the English patch. Sega needs to do something because Ship 2 is a mess right now.

Yeah... just... no... you're making a big deal over nothing.

[Emp]

When I started(which was on ship 10), I was taught to respect the jp by not using in english in public/lobby chat. I dont do it often but if I do, its with my friend Vix, who is jp and doesn't care about using english in lobby chat.

All the english chit chat in lobby bugs me but it also amusing. Seeing all the stupid stuff that the random english say is hilarious. Like this one dude the other day, enters the lobby, yells "OMAHGEEERRDDD" using yell chat bubble while running to the visiphone.

[Lostbob117]

Honestly, any English player who makes fun of any JP(I've seen it) should stop playing on their server. I kind of get what Inazuma means. Like the JP server is the Jps' home and we're their guest, and we're kind of going in and shitting on their floor, well some of us are at least. I don't think you should speak English outloud since I feel it's kind of rude, but that's just my feeling. At least put effort into saying "Hello（よろしくー）[yoroshiku-] (I think this is how you spell, I kind of forgot) when joining a party and "Thanks for the party(PTありー）[PTari-] after the mission to them. You should also show respect towards every single one of them even if they're a prick to you. On this server, they're superior to you. But this doesn't mean they're superior to you in real life, just while on this server.

[Sacrificial]

If i use English in global i don't spam, no one likes that anyway.

As for japanese players, I have only encountered a handful that really hate/dislike the En commu. Others are often like this:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/6OEjT.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]


Heck, I have even taught some jp's tips n tricks in the past and others that taught me tricks.

[KatsuraJun]

I know this is shocking, but believe it or not, Japanese people are people just like us.

You don't need to do anything special, just use some basic goddamn common sense. It has nothing to do with being a guest; acting like a normal, humble, respectful person to strangers should be a given.

Like, even talking out loud about stupid shit in english in the lobby - I don't know about you guys, but in other games where there's a global chat or megaphone function, it's pretty goddamn annoying to see people say stupid shit nonstop on it. It's not a Japanese specific thing, it's annoying no matter what nationality server it is.

It's not a "cultural" thing, it's basic goddamn courtesy. I don't know why everyone thinks Japanese people are another species of animal or something.


Also, it's よろしく to say hello. And you actually wrote Oroshiku (not Koroshiku)

[Lostbob117]

I know this is shocking, but believe it or not, Japanese people are people just like us.

You don't need to do anything special, just use some basic goddamn common sense. It has nothing to do with being a guest; acting like a normal, humble, respectful person to strangers should be a given.

Like, even talking out loud about stupid shit in english in the lobby - I don't know about you guys, but in other games where there's a global chat or megaphone function, it's pretty goddamn annoying to see people say stupid shit nonstop on it. It's not a Japanese specific thing, it's annoying no matter what nationality server it is.

It's not a "cultural" thing, it's basic goddamn courtesy. I don't know why everyone thinks Japanese people are another species of animal or something.


Also, it's よろしく to say hello.

Ohh, yoroshiku, that's right. Thanks for correcting me.

[Gama]

reading this topic looks like were talking about some alien race.

[KatsuraJun]

reading this topic looks like were talking about some alien race.

That's exactly my point. Whether you believe they're the epitome of humankind or xenophobic nutjobs, it's only exacerbating the problem. I feel like people's perceptions of Japanese are shaped more by the old nationalistic far-right in Japan rather than, you know, the average person there.

It's not a god damn mystery. Just treat people with respect and dignity and be wary of how your actions affect others. I thought people were taught this by their mothers when they were fucking ten, but apparently not.

[Z-0]

You'd honestly be surprised.

[BIG OLAF]

ITT: Sweeping generalizations.


I can't even fathom what you hope to gain from trying to explain to an entire community that they're wrong for playing a game because they don't happen to be a final form weeaboo.

These two statements sum it all up. These both get a gold star.

[Inazuma]

Everyone who disagrees with me has little or no experience with the Japanese side. I'm not surprised.

The original point of my post was to help raise awareness about this important issue, and it was particularly aimed at AIDA and the English patch. But most of you would rather just attack me personally since you don't like what I'm saying and you don't even care what the Japanese players think.

A lot of things that are acceptable amongst English players are looked down upon by the Japanese. That is what many of you are unaware of, or you know but just don't care. There is a lot of room for improvement in how we behave ourselves. If you don't like the Japanese thinking you are an immature, loud, selfish fucker, maybe you should stop acting like one. It's a Japanese game, after all. Keep that in mind.

[BIG OLAF]

If you don't like the Japanese thinking you are an immature, loud, selfish fucker, maybe you should stop acting like one.

Who here is any of these things? Most people around here are 0/3 on the 'immature, loud, and selfish' bit. Maybe aim these accusations towards those who act that way.

Why don't you go to B20 and stand and preach the word of the Nippon Masters for the Unclean Western Ones to hear?

[MetalDude]

Was going to say, you're talking to at most like 30 people here if even that. Most of us on here are in teams and tend to reserve our chats to our teams alone.

[Emp]

I love the fact that you want to address the issue but I can safely assume that most on PSOW have realized this issue long before you posting this thread. Most of the accused that are being charged for the things you are talking about live outside of PSOW(meaning not a member here). Unless you address those outside of PSOW, the divide between both communities will continue to grow.

[gigawuts]

Everyone who disagrees with me

Do his generalizations know no bounds?

[pkemr4]

BR's ands thai's are a whole lot worser then NA players

[Kikikiki]

The japanophile is too strong in this one. send;help

[Emp]

Was going to say, you're talking to at most like 30 people here if even that. Most of us on here are in teams and tend to reserve our chats to our teams alone.

This. Alot of other exist on Reddit, maybe gfaqs, unknown forums. I try to tell people not to use english in lobby or mpa but the last time I did that, the guy told me to shut up and that he doesnt care.

[btw-Niji]

The japanophile is too strong in this one. send;help
I agree. >_<

[Invader J]

The […] point of my post was to help raise awareness about this important issue, and it was particularly aimed at AIDA and the English patch.

The point of my letter was to help raise awareness about this important issue, and it was particularly aimed at Johannes Gutenberg and his printing press.

The point of my electronic-mail was to help raise awareness about this important issue, and it was particularly aimed at Tim Berners-Lee and his World Wide Web.

The point of my telegram was to help raise awareness about this important issue, and it was particularly aimed at Alexander Graham Bell and his electric telephonic machine.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I can't speak for others but alot of times when I join a party...and I know its japanese players. I just politely say Hello and party. If they ask me a question I understand in english I'll respond....

Other then i'm just playing.

I can't recall many times having issues (or atleast me being an issue) of being in parties with japanese players...

Of course sometimes i get those random times they'll leave after party but that's mixed opinion as to why they left...

Ive even had JP players send me a friend request and their English was very small but it was enough to understand.

I understand I'm a "visitor" so to speak in this game and at times i try to treat it as such...

[Shadowth117]

There is a lot of room for improvement in how we behave ourselves.

This pretty much sums up you. Yeah, personal jab. In this case, that's what's called for. You're so out of touch with western culture here that you don't even know what you're talking about anymore.

Most people here can think to some degree. A lot of us reading this have seen anime and do in fact have at least an idea of what Japanese culture is like. Hell, I lived in Japan for years, I would know better than a lot of people. Not everyone is going to behave problematically, but generalizing and lumping every English player with every other one is certainly going to look like that sure, as hasty generalization tends to do.

But what you don't understand is that the only people who might possibly put any thought into what you're saying are the people that are for the most part aware of how to act properly on this game already. Like someone just said, you ought to go preaching this to b20 or something because here? That's not where you're going to find the people you want.

In the end, a lot of those people are trying to be friendly and play cooperatively in the best way they know how. That is what is done in many western game servers, believe it or not. Oh and turns out a lot of Japanese players do that too, if maybe not as much. Japanese text in lobbies is definitely a thing, and almost any inexperienced English player seeing that is probably going to go "Oh, I guess talking in lobbies is the norm here." entirely missing the language being used. And lets be honest here: without prior experience to a game like this, how could they even know that's a bad thing?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

The original point of my post was to help raise awareness about this important issue

We know it's an issue. This is why most of us avoid B20!


and it was particularly aimed at AIDA and the English patch.

And you're blaming AIDA and the patch for the actions of ill-behaved people. Fuck your opinion.


But most of you would rather just attack me personally since you don't like what I'm saying

It's because you generalize, and put the fault on AIDA. No shit people aren't going to like what you're saying.


and you don't even care what the Japanese players think.

I care to a degree about what any decent human being thinks of me. Not just the japanese.


A lot of things that are acceptable amongst English players are looked down upon by the Japanese.

I don't find lobby-fagging, clogging anyone else's screen nearby with SAs, cut ins, and stupid chatter, and not actually playing the game acceptable. I don't find doing anything intentionally that makes me a bother acceptable.


That is what many of you are unaware of, or you know but just don't care.

We're all aware of what B20 is. Only people who don't are literally new. That's why it's known as a block you don't go to if you want to actually play the game. That's why most of us on PSOworld don't do what they do in the lobby.

You really are talking to the wrong audience here, and say it as if we're willingly/unwillingly ignorant of the situation, and at fault.


If you don't like the Japanese thinking you are an immature, loud, selfish fucker, maybe you should stop acting like one.

So you're implying we're all acting like that in the first place. Statements like this is why people have an issue with what you're saying.

Also, you know japanese players do it occasionally too, right? Probably not the the degree, nor is it concentrated to primarily one ship, and one block like foreigners, but it happens.

[Punisher106]

I've been in japanese MPAs. JP players have joined my party. Every single JP player knew I was english, figuring it out, by themselves. When I see a JP name join my party, I disable autowords, and greet with a "yoroshikuonegaishimasu". I normally go silent, and bring up the chat translator. If they address me in japanese about something, I do my best to respond with the modest amount of knowledge of JP that I have. Usually, they tend to go "I take it you're english?" and I reluctantly admit that I am. They simply talk to me in english, and don't treat me any differently. In the end, they go "Thanks for PT" before leaving and such. I even got friended by these players, so I know that not all JP people see us like that.

[Kiyumi]

All I read was "JP players hate stupid people". It has nothing to do with speaking English. There are some English speakers who are rude and everyone hates them, JP and English speakers both hate them. English speakers are an easy group to pick out, again as with all people, some will be stupid, and most will be decent citizens. As for blaming AIDA's English patch, lol. Of course, Im not on Ship 2 or this "block 20" but if its really limited to one place, then avoid it? Not that hard.

[RedRaz0r]

All I read was "JP players hate stupid people". It has nothing to do with speaking English. There are some English speakers who are rude and everyone hates them, JP and English speakers both hate them. English speakers are an easy group to pick out, again as with all people, some will be stupid, and most will be decent citizens. As for blaming AIDA's English patch, lol. Of course, Im not on Ship 2 or this "block 20" but if its really limited to one place, then avoid it? Not that hard.

Then you didn't read the thread. Try again.

[Shinamori]

Funny thing is, this nothing new to anything. If this was a western MMO, people would be saying the same thing about anyone else who wasn't from there. "Oh these fucking (insert race here) speak in (language)! The should speak English! This is an american server! They can't even play right!". I've seen it in a lot of MMOs, and online RPGs, especially.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I personally can't say "japanese players hate english players" as thats a general statement....
I'm sure most are fine with us being here as long as we're arent being annoying and having fun....

Of course thats just me experience/ 2 cents on the subject

[Kiyumi]

Then you didn't read the thread. Try again.

I only read the first page and everyone disagreed with the OP. No I am not going to read every page.

[PSchiZ]

Why would someone bump of all things a rant, back up to the top, that has been cut from another thread where it didn't belong? This so-called thread is better off not posted in anymore, b/c this rant has now turned into an argument about things we already know how to do when interacting with jp. Yeah?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I only read the first page and everyone disagreed with the OP. No I am not going to read every page.

You didn't miss much.

Moment he started targeting the english patching for the blame of player misconduct, his opinion became worth less than day-old shit.

He thinks the language you speak or read has something to do with how to conduct yourself as a decent human being.

His solution is to alienate the entire foreign community/translation patching over the misconduct of some players, as if all JP players have no behavioral issues.

Really, his crap isn't worth discussing here.

[Shinamori]

Sound to me as if he put himself on a pedestal above everyone else just because he can communicate with that Japanese when the fact is, he has the same "rights" we do when playing on the Japanese servers.

[Whit]

Everyone who disagrees with me has little or no experience with the Japanese side. I'm not surprised.

The original point of my post was to help raise awareness about this important issue, and it was particularly aimed at AIDA and the English patch. But most of you would rather just attack me personally since you don't like what I'm saying and you don't even care what the Japanese players think.

A lot of things that are acceptable amongst English players are looked down upon by the Japanese. That is what many of you are unaware of, or you know but just don't care. There is a lot of room for improvement in how we behave ourselves. If you don't like the Japanese thinking you are an immature, loud, selfish fucker, maybe you should stop acting like one. It's a Japanese game, after all. Keep that in mind.

You're truly dont understand anything.

[Tenlade]

Summary: Japanese people are people, regardless of thier differing culture. And being people, They all might have different opinions regarding us playing the game. and Being people you should treat them respect, which you should do to Non Japanase players as well.

There now shut up about that and lets actually suggest some solutions.

I suggest that If AIDA wouldnt mind, if he could put some messages that appear while patches are installing/things are loading to remind players to be polite to others, and to acknowledge that its rude to speak english around those who can't understand it. If the guys doing the english patches wouldn't mind, they could replace a few of the more useless loading screen tips with stuff regarding manners and such as well.

Anyone else have any ideas?

[Inazuma]

Summary: Japanese people are people, regardless of thier differing culture. And being people, They all might have different opinions regarding us playing the game. and Being people you should treat them respect, which you should do to Non Japanase players as well.

There now shut up about that and lets actually suggest some solutions.

I suggest that If AIDA wouldnt mind, if he could put some messages that appear while patches are installing/things are loading to remind players to be polite to others, and to acknowledge that its rude to speak english around those who can't understand it. If the guys doing the english patches wouldn't mind, they could replace a few of the more useless loading screen tips with stuff regarding manners and such as well.

Anyone else have any ideas?

It's nice to see someone who has consideration for others. Good ideas. This is the kind of stuff I want this thread to be about.

[Retehi]

I knew Inazumachan was batshit crazy, but this thread just puts him on a whole new level.

[Tenlade]

another suggestion:

We've had some people before post stock messages others could use before, Maybe we could compile a list of the most simplest ones for people to use? Someone could compile a text file containing some simple japanese sentences that could be added into shortcuts and autowords (a thanks for being revived, a greeting shortcut, an apology if you made a mistake, etc)

Making it into a text file and including it with some of AIDA's programs might give people some help for being more accommodating when playing with Japanese players who don't understand English. I say add it with AIDAs stuff a lot because it would reach players who normally wouldn't look for it or hang out on psow forums. Also because it would take 0 effort on AIDA's part to just stick a simple text file in the download.

[btw-Niji]

I blame the anime.

[The Walrus]

Man this thread

[Naizuya Tatzubani]

>Tfw you can just either leave bad parties, or block the jerks.
>Instead complain on a forum and say everyone sucks.

[Totori]

another suggestion:

We've had some people before post stock messages others could use before, Maybe we could compile a list of the most simplest ones for people to use? Someone could compile a text file containing some simple japanese sentences that could be added into shortcuts and autowords (a thanks for being revived, a greeting shortcut, an apology if you made a mistake, etc)

Making it into a text file and including it with some of AIDA's programs might give people some help for being more accommodating when playing with Japanese players who don't understand English. I say add it with AIDAs stuff a lot because it would reach players who normally wouldn't look for it or hang out on psow forums. Also because it would take 0 effort on AIDA's part to just stick a simple text file in the download.

So you're throwing around a suggestion that players should hide behind some simple Japanese sentences, just to please other "True Japanese players"

That's purely ridiculous, people shouldn't have to do anything like that. I mean sure it's nice if you want to learn Japanese or something, but don't try to push that on others.

[Jyasupa]

What's sad about this thread is OP isn't joking.

[Tenlade]

So you're throwing around a suggestion that players should hide behind some simple Japanese sentences, just to please other "True Japanese players"

That's purely ridiculous, people shouldn't have to do anything like that. I mean sure it's nice if you want to learn Japanese or something, but don't try to push that on others.
I'm saying maybe in a Non-English game You should include some non-English messages so people who don't understand English can know what the heck you are saying. This isn't even a japanese/culture things, its courtesy.


to make it clear: my suggestion was a few shortcuts and autowords people could use for communicating with Japanese players, not to have people only using those lines, you could still speak english. It wouldn't hurt to "please" someone other then yourself for once.

[Ratazana]

Confirmation/ingroup/projection bias at its finest.

[KatsuraJun]

It's nice to see someone who has consideration for others. Good ideas. This is the kind of stuff I want this thread to be about.


except this isn't what you were advocating, at all.

or at least, as I said earlier, you don't realize that putting japanese people on a pedestal like they're another species does the exact opposite of what was just said.

seriously, you're preaching this in the wrong place anyway - spamming allchat with nonsensical bullshit is b20, as others have stated already. It's not just Japanese that don't like it, nobody likes it except the douchebags that hang there.

[pkemr4]

ill just leave this here: [SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/2QRDvkg.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

also speaking of spam. there was a player named SORA spamming "shut the fuck up" constantly in b20.

[Cadfael]

Everyone who disagrees with me has little or no experience with the Japanese side. I'm not surprised.

The original point of my post was to help raise awareness about this important issue, and it was particularly aimed at AIDA and the English patch. But most of you would rather just attack me personally since you don't like what I'm saying and you don't even care what the Japanese players think.

A lot of things that are acceptable amongst English players are looked down upon by the Japanese. That is what many of you are unaware of, or you know but just don't care. There is a lot of room for improvement in how we behave ourselves. If you don't like the Japanese thinking you are an immature, loud, selfish fucker, maybe you should stop acting like one. It's a Japanese game, after all. Keep that in mind.

So you've played with every Japanese player in the game, and have gotten every one of their opinions on English speaking players in PSO2? If not, you're doing some serious generalization, as has been pointed out numerous times.

It's a classic defensive strategy to claim victimhood when people disagree with you. If the counterarguments to your original postulation are so inaccurate, you should refute them instead of claiming "Woe is me! Everyone here is wrong, but they can't accept it, so they're attacking me personally!"

[XPKun]

Anything in this world that's created, even with the intention of it being for good, can and will be eventually used or lead to bad things as well. Sure the English Patch opened the door for more people who just can't tolerate a purely Japanese interface to play, but the ones who behave badly could also be blamed to the community in general. Blocks like B20 who seemingly foster this kind of behavior is an example. I'm pretty sure anyone who has tried to talk some sense into the people there are just shut down or mocked.

Sorry, but this forum is to be blamed as well. I've seen a lot of bad behavior here that's worthy of being utterly banned but I still see their names here. Just the amount of racist comments in this thread is unbelievable and I'm quite surprised they are getting away with it.

OP, you're doing it the wrong way.

[TaigaUC]

Inazuma talks with many Japanese players, in Japanese.
I think he has a pretty decent idea of what he's talking about.
I haven't talked with many JP players in-game (my interactions are mostly limited to minor GJ comment chit-chat), but I also don't tell them I'm not Japanese until I feel that I need to.

I do occasionally see JP people complaining in public or elsewhere on the net that EN people are terrible players.
Keep in mind that I don't go looking for JP opinions on EN players. I just see JP players complaining here and there.
As far as I can tell, their complaints are valid as I've run into the same problems myself.

I also get the impression that there are always a lot of people in the block teleporter when blocks seem mostly filled with EN players (in other words, they want to get the hell out).
We have people here who see EN players and run for the hills, so it's not surprising.

[Aussei]

All of you, every single one of you, talk as if you and the people you know are the only ones who exist in this world.

[BIG OLAF]

All of you, every single one of you, talk as if you and the people you know are the only ones who exist in this world.

Please provide text examples of the mentioned behavior.

[Evangelion X.XX]

A couple of bad apples ruining it for everyone... it's a shame.

[TaigaUC]

All of you, every single one of you, talk as if you and the people you know are the only ones who exist in this world.
The fact is they exist and comprise a part of the whole, and thus shouldn't be dismissed.
No one person can know everybody. We can only pool our experiences.

Or are you God?

I think I'll just leave you all with this:
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/135/593/brfw0.png?1308245625

For reference:
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/huahuehuahue

[Ratazana]

Great comic. Anyone posting the jp version of that would be labeled a weeaboo.

[TaigaUC]

Actually, I have something else to add.
I am reminded of when I led a small English community playing a certain Japanese online game.

This was a long time ago. At first, there were only around 10-20 people.
I explained to them the importance of respecting the JP players and not bothering them.
It was their server, after all. "When in Rome, do as the Romans would" and all that.
I'm sure nobody here would enjoy having the above "BR BR HUE" happen to them.

When I looked up what JP people were saying, some were complaining about rude English players.
However, some JP people defended our specific group for being polite.

Over time, more English players found out about our group and joined us.
It became increasingly difficult for me to convince them to behave politely and with consideration for the JP players.
Some started running around yelling in English and being a nuisance.

Outside of our group, more English players started playing and causing a lot of trouble.
They were spamming global chat, cheating in ways that literally ruined the game, abusing JP players, etc.
It became such a huge problem that eventually all international IPs were banned.
It didn't matter that a large number of us had invested lots of money into the game.
Getting rid of the foreigners was an easy, quick and effective solution.

Obviously this kind of thing has always been a risk with PSO2.
I don't know how much of a problem it is now. All I can say is this:
Most, if not all of the troublecausers wouldn't care to read or discuss this matter.
As such, I think it's a waste of time for us to discuss it.
All we can do is express the importance of respecting the fact that we are outsiders playing on a specific country's server, against the rules.

None of that "it's a free world" bullshit. Anybody who isn't an anti-social prick shouldn't be acting like the game belongs to them.
You don't expect to walk into someone else's house and act like it belongs to you.
Whether or not their front door is open is completely irrelevant.
The same applies here.

[Ghalion]

Don't blame Aida for making a patch. Blame Sega for not being on the ball with localizing (or even just reporting progress!) their damn game like they said they would over a year ago.

Also, I'm sure there are tons of annoying Japanese players speaking Japanese as well, annoying players are annoying players, whether there is a patch or not doesn't really affect that. It just allows a larger number of annoying players to exist, and...well, it allows a greater number of not so annoying players to exist too. Maybe you should just remove the game altogether, no annoying players! great solution.

[WildarmsRE5]

The analogy I can come to is how people find it annoying when US/English speaking game servers are "invaded" by tons of Philippine players. Who just don't bother applying common sense and don't bother trying to speak English.

A lot of the English community, especially B20 residents can be viewed like that. But there are gems among the crowd that truly do care about trying to be part of the whole community._. what kind of NA games my people have been playing with? may I know?

[Edson Drake]

Racism is also one of the things that makes me play with a small group of friends, instead of having to see things like these. What a shame.

[Punisher106]

The fact is they exist and comprise a part of the whole, and thus shouldn't be dismissed.
No one person can know everybody. We can only pool our experiences.

Or are you God?

I think I'll just leave you all with this:
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/135/593/brfw0.png?1308245625

For reference:
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/huahuehuahue

All of my this. I understand that us being in the JP servers is like brazillian players being in US servers. The majority tends to be "GIBE MONI OR I REPORT U HUAEHUAEHUAEHUAE"-level (stereotypical brazillian players, players you see in Block 20), but there's those rare gems that actually fit in quite well. I've seen a good amount of brazillian players that don't show ANY of these stereotypical signs. I'm trying to be like them, but as an english player in JP territory. People need to learn to get this through their thick skulls.

tl;dr: Put yourself in the brazillians' shoes that play on NA servers. Then think of how you treat them. Don't like it? Man up and try to blend in.

[jooozek]

this thread sure likes to wander between pso2 general and rants :roll:

[TaigaUC]

Oh, I should make it clear that I don't really "blame" the patch makers.
The real fault lies with shitty cultural upbringing and modern society in general encouraging selfish asshole behavior in every possible way.

We live in a world where if you try be nice, you get screwed really hard.
And humans are a species that need to be patted on the head for every little thing.
Most people won't go out of their way to be nice unless they receive a significant visible reward.

[Totori]

I'm saying maybe in a Non-English game You should include some non-English messages so people who don't understand English can know what the heck you are saying. This isn't even a japanese/culture things, its courtesy.


to make it clear: my suggestion was a few shortcuts and autowords people could use for communicating with Japanese players, not to have people only using those lines, you could still speak english. It wouldn't hurt to "please" someone other then yourself for once.


Uh, I'm not normally speaking Japanese, it's not courtesy. I'm not out to get them to understand me, I'm mostly playing the game as a Phantasy Star fan. Solo or not.

I love my Autowords, and I'd be damned if I translated them into Japanese, just for "courtesy" reasons.

[Ratazana]

The point is that the patch is facilitating the invasion on jp servers. Without the patch, only someone who really cares would bother to play the game. The average player that can't seem to grasp that this is a jp game, populated by jp people where jp customs should be followed would not go trough all that trouble.

Psobb and psujp had only a handful of importers and most of 'em were well behaved. Importers had a good reputation among jp. The patch opened the gates to the masses and now 2ch got threads like "no gaijins in aq", "ban all gaijins" and 2ship community blacklist is filled with importers name.

You know, there is a reason why sega abandoned international servers after pso (xbox psu was a special case).

[Nitro Vordex]

I fear sweeping simply wasn't large enough.

Soaring generalizations?

[ArataWata]

If you honestly think I'm going to learn to speak Japanese for the sake of you and your 'Japanese master race' friends, you can most certainly get bent over.

When it comes to playing with Japanese players, I don't say anything, I mind my own business and mostly stick to party chat and team chat, if I find myself with another Japanese player in my party, we mostly don't say anything and get on with it, hell, even happens with English players I don't know. (Mainly Falz parties.)

But, yeah, English MMO communities have to deal with annoying Brazilian players, I don't get what makes Japan so special to not have to deal with annoying importers on their games too, they're everywhere, can't be stopped, unless of course there's a region lock, you learn to deal with it and quit your bickering, because they aren't going anywhere.

And to say no English player spends money on AC is just a blunt, stupid lie, oh hello? I've bought around $40 on AC thus far, just started doing so since I wanted to hold up on doing it until I was a certain level and felt comfortable with it, hell, I'm in a team with people who spend a lot more than me, and guess what? They're English players.

So, go soak your tears on your waifu printed tissues, snug your anime pillow and enjoy the game.

[gigawuts]

Ha ha, I spent like $180 on arks cash when the game was new.

None of it went through so I was never even charged!

Aaaah, I love Sega.

[WildarmsRE5]

I'd also like to point out my recent TD run (in B-12) where the PT leader will only invite "Rappies".

I was right infront, weared a Rappy Suit, got an invite 3 secs later. needless to say, my reaction was "whut ._."

from my experience, JP players are fun to play with-- wait. . . I feel the same way with English players. . . is this ranting about players who can't play well? or is it about the lack of manners of english players?

[CelestialBlade]

Oh man, this argument again.

- Just play the damn game.

- Treat others with respect, even if it's not always given to you. No, being a nice person with a sense of decency is not always easy. But all you can do is do your part to make the game community a decent place, fuck nationalities. Just do your damn part and quit trying to be Jesus worrying about what everyone else does.

Really tired of these "public service announcement" topics. Just do your part. You do not have to be the loudest voice to make a difference.

[jooozek]

they banned china, no reason they wouldn't ban amurrica

[Ratazana]

they banned china, no reason they wouldn't ban amurrica

But but americans are buying AC!


I'd also like to point out that I've spent well over $500 in Arks Cash. (2nd characters before episode 1, item capacity + 50 for them, scratches, premium, etc)

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/2fy8RY9.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[jooozek]

the out-of-jail card doesn't come with AC, though :evil:

[ShinMaruku]

Smaddy affi bawl, smaddy affi plead. Smaddy affi lay down pan ih konkrete!

[Ratazana]

>>920 Doctor なんちゃら　だろ？
あの外人人数少ない部屋で「FackJaps」とか暴言吐いてたから
いた人がどんどん放棄してクリア困難になって
別の部屋に更に潜り込んだみたいだね

[Nitro Vordex]

they banned china, no reason they wouldn't ban amurrica
Doesn't China have their own version?

That sucks?

[jooozek]

Doesn't China have their own version?

That sucks?

nope, they banned china because rmt/botting

[MidCap]

The initial post is some racist bullshit.

I've never once run into a JP player that seemed to resent my presence. Variety is the spice of life, and xenophobia is being tolerated less and less around the world every day.

The proportions of "good versus bad" people are roughly the same everywhere you go. Just because Japan has a more rigorous and punishing education system than the U.S. doesn't mean that less of its residents turn out to be assholes. You can't teach goodness.

[NightfallG]

Hey OP do you realize that racism isn't just shitting on another culture but also creepily putting one on a pedestal because you have a fetish for it? It's you. You're the tomato in the mirror. You're the kind of American dingus Japanese folks actually hate because you think 2ch speaks for all of them.

[Asuni]

I speak JP to the JP players. If they ask I tell them Im murican. And they are like "honto?? suge" or something. And we play. That's usually it. But I don't like the annoying loud people on ship 2, but I just moved here. I'm happy to have some English people around.

K I read the whole thread and I think OP dislikes anyone who isn't fluent in the Moon. I hold Japanese in a high regard-but I also hold other people in a high regard because I have respect generally for all people.

[azulleth]

All it comes down to is play respectfully, short chat is fun and symbol arts are fun but spamming them is fucking annoying.
Don't over use the triggered short chats in parties/mpa, because some of us are trying to focus.
Make an effort to talk to JP players if they talk to you, your in one of their parties or you invite one of them into your party.

I know little Japanese yet i can still hold enough of a dialogue to communicate and talk to JP players. Praise be to Google translate.
I used fast enough that some JP players have asked what software I use or do I actually know Japanese.

Now for the those of certain taste we all know that's where block 01 comes in.

Carry on playing with respect to others and making an effort and you should rarely have issues, unless you meet an arsehole.

[otakun]

Holy necro, batman

[LovelyCorinn]

"Bad" meaning "shitty player"? If we are talking about player skill, tons of Japanese players are horrible at PSO2. However generally speaking, Japanese players are far more skilled than English players. It's a massive difference. Not only are they generally better at the game, but they have a better sense of teamwork and cooperation, so even a weak player can contribute to the party. If you have a problem with someone, you can usually solve the problem right away by talking to them about it. Most of the time they willing to work it out.

Or "Bad" meaning "asshole"? In all of my thousands of hours playing and talking with Japanese players in PSOBB, PSU and PSO2, only a small handful have been jerks. It's extremely rare. Psycho Wand rare. In PSOBB, we would drop all of the rares we found from the quest on the floor in town, do rock paper scissors to determine the order, and then take turns picking up the rares. I did that literally thousands of times and not even once did someone steal something and run.

Same goes for item trades. Even though PSOBB had a proper trade window, we would often just drop the items on the floor because it was quicker. I did trades like this at least 30 times and only once did someone take my item and disconnect.... only to return a minute later and apologize for getting disconnected. We resumed the trade like normal.

It is very rare for a Japanese player to be a jerk, even a little bit. It almost never happens. The closest you can find to this would be someone who sucks at the game and unknowingly does something that upsets others. If you talk to them about it, you can probably handle it.

I have not had any problems with jp players since i started playing PSO2 if anything my friend list has a nice amount on it, I have been befriending jps far back as final fantasy XI, i cant tell you how many times my whm or rdm has been scooped up during late night hours only to have a kick ass party that would end with them all adding me to friends list and dishing out bows,hugs, and kisses before leaving, i even have MANY jp friends in real life, so i have none of these issues you all may have with jps i am just fine.