Doing Something Wrong as Fighter?

[Allane]

Hey guys, I'm new to these forums, but not necessarily to PSO. Played a lot of the original PSO, some of PSU, and have recently gotten into PSO2.

We were doing a mine base EQ and there was a Br/Hu going around slashing everything for 4000+ damage on weak spots. The only way I can even get close to that is with a Backhand Smash on the knuckles.

Therefore I'm inclined to think there's something wrong with the way I'm playing Fighter (I'm Fi/Hu for the record). I've got a lv. 100 Striking Mag, I've got above-level weapons and equipment, I've got the weapon gears for the T. Daggers and the Knuckles, working on the D. Saber. I've tailored my PA setups to be flexible, from dealing with large groups to hammering a single enemy without having to switch PA bars.

Is playing Fighter just a lost cause and I should jump ship and join the Braver group?

Edit: Oh, and part of my problem may be that I basically taught myself how to play. Didn't look at very many guides to start off with.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

We were doing a mine base EQ and there was a Br/Hu going around slashing everything for 4000+ damage on weak spots.

That's it?


I've tailored my PA setups to be flexible, from dealing with large groups to hammering a single enemy without having to switch PA bars.

It's usually better to have multiple bars with 3x of one PA and switch between them. I use function keys for that.

[RyanDanger]

I slowly returning PSO2 and from what I can tell (on the forums) Fighter may be even more of a lost cause now than when I used to play :x

It's problem before was being able to reach enemies before the FO or GU obliterated them from afar. Given that BR looks like the new OP standard class all I can say is: If you're concerned about numbers go with BR. If you don't care about numbers and really like FI or FI weapons, go with FI.

[Allane]

Hm. I did mean to say that he was level 16/21. I was 22/32.

I do like the Fighter playstyle, I just don't want to be the reason that we lose an EQ just because I want to have fun.

[Kondibon]

Braver and gunner are just so strong that everything kinda looks weak by comparison. The braver was probably using Shunka. Equipment is also something to take into account, but mostly it's Shunka and S-roll combo.

You won't ever be the reason an EQ is failed despite what people want to tell you, but getting 3rd runs might not be as possible in something like TD.

[UnLucky]

Twin Daggers (Bloody Sarabande) and Double Sabers (Deadly Archer) are still great.

You could even use a multi-class Partisan for AoE if it's strong enough to kill things.

Though you can always give Braver a try, too.

[Shinamori]

Twin Daggers (Bloody Sarabande) and Double Sabers (Deadly Archer) are still great.

You could even use a multi-class Partisan for AoE if it's strong enough to kill things.

Though you can always give Braver a try, too.

Yeah, those are pretty cool, though I have that new twin dagger PA in my hot bar as well. It's AOE isn't that great, but it's pretty neat if you get a cluster of enemies right on you.

[Kondibon]

Yeah, those are pretty cool, though I have that new twin dagger PA in my hot bar as well. It's AOE isn't that great, but it's pretty neat if you get a cluster of enemies right on you.I find it good for sticking to bosses, or staying on the offense when stuff tries to hit me, but the damage isn't all that great compared to some other dagger PAs.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Yeah you're doing something wrong, you're playing fighter!

Seriously though don't look at bravers if you want to feel good about yourself. it's the only class in the game that just gets to be completely invincible for no reason and then proceed to clear whole rooms in a few seconds. Shunka is OP, Hatou is OP, Katana Combat is OP, Br is OP. that 4000 is nothing I have a lvl 55/45 Br who hit's for over 25k with that same PA under similar conditions. some weak points take even more than double damage...and then stack weak bullet on that.

if a whole bunch of enemies spawn at one, start up katana combat and and hit kanran a few times before JAing into the finish - no more enemies even on SH. Do not compare your fi to bravers for damage unless you want to go insane. not all things are equal.

Also levels at your stage in the game don't mean much. it'd be different if you were lvl 50 and he was lvl 15, but skill tree and equipment trump level and at where you are it's more equipment than anything. Later skill tree and class synergy will way more important than gear as long as gear is somewhat optimized.

[Raid_Hirsh]

Is playing Fighter just a lost cause and I should jump ship and join the Braver group


Well Allane, you have two options: quit the Fighter and play a Braver, or pursue playing the Fighter until you have reached perfection.

I'm not going to lie -- I did find it relatively difficult to play Fighters (at first), due to becoming so accustomed to playing Bravers. After some extensive training, it's safe to say that I have grasped and mastered the ways of being a phenomenal Fighter; I love Fighter so much that I have no desire to even play my Braver again.

The optimal way to play Fighters is by utilizing all of their weapons at the appropriate time. Each weapon serves a different role and they excel in different areas from each other. My personal Weapon Palette setup for each weapon is:


~ Please note that all of my Fighter PAs' are Lv.16 ~

* Double Sabers: [Acro Effect / Deadly Archer / Deadly Archer]
(This set up is great for tanky enemies and mobile bosses)

* Twin Daggers: [Symphonic Drive / Bloody Sarabande / Orchestra]
(This set up is great for aerial enemies, targeting specific boss parts, and heavy mobbing)

* Knuckles (1): [Straight Charge / Quake Howling / Pendulum Roll]
(This set up is great for travelling and light mobbing)

* Knuckles (2): [Flash Thousand / Backhand Smash / Backhand Smash]
(This set up is great for tanky enemies and stationary bossing)


Optimal setup or not -- I've been able to breeze through (solo) Time Attacks, SH areas and bosses, and reached 1st place overall on the Tower Defense EQ (from time-to-time).

Nevertheless, at the end of the day, it's ultimately up to you whether you want to continue or not. Don't be discouraged by other Bravers and Gunners, because Fighters are still capable of packing a punch too.

[Ratazana]

You could just wait until sega decides to buff fighters.

Playing fighter as it stands now is like trying to break a wall banging your head against it while people around you are using sledgehammers.

[Allane]

Well, banging my head against a wall while everyone else was using sledges is exactly how I got to be extremely good at First Person Shooters, so we'll see if the same logic can't be applied here.

[gigawuts]

You could just wait until sega decides to buff fighters.

Playing fighter as it stands now is like trying to break a wall banging your head against it while people around you are using sledgehammers.

This is what I'm waiting on.

That said, that new dagger PA is a goddamn beast, judging by the look and range of it.

[Nitro Vordex]

Hm. I did mean to say that he was level 16/21. I was 22/32.

That's why. Don't be discouraged by a broken class, especially when you're still kinda low. If you want to maximize your damage output, make sure you check out some of the build recommendations. I'm alright in my damage I believe, doing 990~ on regular hits with knuckles. Your stances and JA bonuses are extremely important for Fighter. It really depends on how your skills are built, and what kind of equipment you're using. Screenshot of your skills and your weapons/units would be helpful.

I also agree with Fighter needing a buff, as much as I love the class. Punching things is still mega satisfying.

[MountainLynx]

That said, that new dagger PA is a goddamn beast, judging by the look and range of it.

It does competitive damage, but it has a capture activation, so if you don't hit with the first attack, it'll automatically cancel the whole PA. As previously mentioned, it's great for bosses and tight clusters. Don't expect it to measure up in highly mobile fights, though.

Now back to addressing the OP's concerns, Fighter really is one of the classes that's very susceptible to your skill tree layout (unlike Braver and Gunner, in which if you get a couple of key skills, you're a beast), and relies heavily on its subclass for the way it plays. If you really want to see the numbers, you're likely going to have to max out either Fury Stance (Hunter) or Weak Stance (Braver). Just keep in mind that you may not always be able to go after that necessary weak spot if you choose the latter.

As far as PAs, Bloody Sarabande was mentioned. This should definitely be your go-to choice, as it's fast, and hits reasonably hard. Combined with Raging Waltz, the daggers' defensive spin and liberal use of normal attacks, you can stay airborne indefinitely, allowing you to get the most of that maxed out Gear gauge.

I'll also agree with the use of Deadly Archer, but rather than Acro Effect, I tend to favor Illusion Rave. The Double Saber and its Gear should be able to dish out a constant stream of damage. Not always the biggest numbers, but the fact that the Gear will be dishing out damage passively as you charge in with your PAs should make your output much more effective. I tend to use this for mobbing, since more than one target means my Gear gauge will fully replenish by the time the Gear is finished.

As far as Knuckles go, I hate them. Their complete lack of range is difficult to get used to, so you'll want to get very good at ducking and using PAs off of Step Attacks (invincible frames are your best friend with Knuckles), since you'll have to be close enough to kiss your enemy before you can land anything. A gap closer (Straight Charge) is essential, and because being so close means limiting your visibility (and therefore not always being able to see the cues for the enemy's next attack), you'll want PAs that don't take long to execute. Backhand Smash is great for bosses, and anything that's too slow to escape.

[Xaelouse]

Facet Folia's invincibility is incredible and can make some easy fights even easier, but for some reason sega doesn't want to give another PA tracking on every hit like shunka so you'll find yourself whiffing the middle hits often.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Hatou is OP

I'd say hatou was the most balanced and necessary addition to katana bravers that actually takes effort to use, and isn't a one-pa-answer to everything.

[Shinamori]

Actually, the last attack on Facet Folia does track, but yeah. Wish there was a tracking PA for Fi. I've been enjoying Fi/Hu lately lol.

[MountainLynx]

Raging Waltz tracks. It's range is a little short, but it's great for zeroing in on elevated weak points, or following fast-moving bosses.

[SakoHaruo]

every time I go in a new Fighter thread the conversation isn't even about Fighter, it's about Braver. :lol:

There's nothing wrong with Fighter, the class does what it's suppose to do just fine, and that is single target dps. You could say Fighter is Ryu and Braver is SF4 Sagat tier. And Gunner is Akuma. Even though Sagat was the best in the game he still got destroyed by characters in match ups that were considered to be in his favor.

[MountainLynx]

The issue is that, with Braver and Gunner, it's easy to see what makes you powerful. With Fighter, it's a whole lot more obtuse, as you have to carefully select your skills, as well as getting used to stance dancing, in order to match everyone else. And yes, you can certainly match everyone else. It just requires more planning and skill.

[Ratazana]

every time I go in a new Fighter thread the conversation isn't even about Fighter, it's about Braver. :lol:

There's nothing wrong with Fighter, the class does what it's suppose to do just fine, and that is single target dps. You could say Fighter is Ryu and Braver is SF4 Sagat tier. And Gunner is Akuma. Even though Sagat was the best in the game he still got destroyed by characters in match ups that were considered to be in his favor.

I think SF2T would be more appropriate. Gunner is Old Sagat and Braver is Gouki with 20secs invincibility and 1hit KOs.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I'd say hatou was the most balanced and necessary addition to katana bravers that actually takes effort to use, and isn't a one-pa-answer to everything.

have you seen the videos of it killing bosses before they even get a chance to act? it does very good damage on its own but also hits multiple parts of the same boss making it incredibly potent when building up katana combat as well. that's what makes it op.

[UnLucky]

It's pretty much Deadly Archer with more range and more damage.

[Misaki Ki]

Braver wasn't just happy being Braver, and had to do things Fighter did best, better.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

have you seen the videos of it killing bosses before they even get a chance to act? it does very good damage on its own but also hits multiple parts of the same boss making it incredibly potent when building up katana combat as well. that's what makes it op.

There never was a time on PSOW the answer for everything was just 'hatou it'. Hatou's one major flaw isn't completely negated by just using KC either. That very flaw managed to keep what few other good katana PAs relevant, instead of what shunka is doing; giving people a case of annesia when it comes to hatou's existance. Its total damage still does not pass shunka. These are all reasons why I can't call it OP.

Also even if it hits multiple parts of one target, it usually does 6 hits tops.

[gigawuts]

OPness isn't necessarily based on equal grounds.

Hatou Rindou has a higher skill floor, for sure, but in competent hands it can be exceptionally strong for not a lot of effort. Everything should have a maximum achievable performance regardless of who's using it, and they're saying Hatou Rindou exceeds what it should be capable of in some situations.

[UnLucky]

Hatou never had a time to shine because by the time people could actually get it, Shunka was already out.

[gigawuts]

Hatou had its time to shine for those of us that sought it, and it really did bring balance to Braver fairly well side from the sheer damage it could stack on a target with lots of hitboxes. If it didn't hit so many hitboxes, or didn't deal so much damage to them all at once, it would be totally fine.

Basically, braver went from Sakura End spam to the monster it is now. And you know what? It could've been perfectly balanced, too.

Just pick two:
Shunka
Combat Escape
The long awaited addition of actually powerful katanas

Braver fixed. Ish.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Just pick two:
Shunka
Combat Escape
The long awaited addition of actually powerful katanas

Braver fixed. Ish.

I will always say shunka didn't need to happen.

Sadly, we're all guilty of abusing it/hoping others abuse it to make triple TD runs with pugs even easier to accomplish.


Anyway, this thread is about FI, isn't it? If their stances/switching stances wasn't as clunky and had no cooldown, I'd appreciate the class more.

[UnLucky]

After they had finally bothered to make Asagiri, Tsukimi, and Gekka viable, they go and drop Shunka all over the place.

"Gyahaha, you thought Braver had only one PA before? Well, this shit makes Sakura Endo look like Hien Tsubaki!"

[gigawuts]

Yeah, I feel like Fighter's stances are holding it back from more frequent use. It's just too tedious and clunky having to swap stances on the fly during a fight, or eat a damage penalty because something knocked an enemy over or something randomly turned around as soon as it spawned.

If the stances were passive bonuses it'd be another story. The stances aren't even that powerful, I can't think of any reason they shouldn't be passive bonuses.

The price issue of needing so many weapon types at once is also a chore, especially compared to Braver or Gunner needing just one single weapon in to be powerful.

[UnLucky]

Because even if Brave, Wise, Average, and Weak Stances were passive skills with their penalties removed, they still would not be as strong as Fury Stance for the same amount of SP invested.

Oh wait, that's not a reason against it at all!

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

The price issue of needing so many weapon types at once is also a chore, especially compared to Braver or Gunner needing just one single weapon in to be powerful.

That was also a big deal for me.

At least when we got the new PAs along with Na- techs, sega seemed to want weapon types to have some ability to handle any situation at the switch of a PA, instead of being pigeonholed into a specific role, and needing to have a different weapon just for X type of mob, or Y type of boss.

Daggers got really strong mobbing potential.
Knuckles became a choice for boss face-melting if you didn't want to DA all day.
Deadly circle... the intention was nice. The damage sucks though.

[gigawuts]

That was also a big deal for me.

At least when we got the new PAs along with Na- techs, sega seemed to want weapon types to have some ability to handle any situation at the switch of a PA, instead of being pigeonholed into a specific role, and needing to have a different weapon just for X type of mob, or Y type of boss.

Daggers got really strong mobbing potential.
Knuckles became a choice for boss face-melting if you didn't want to DA all day.
Deadly circle... the intention was nice. The damage sucks though.

Deadly Circle would work if its hits either reached into your character, or if the whole circle was hit even though the double saber wasn't actually there. Make it just an energy ring or something. It would be interesting to use with the whirlwind.