Versatility and Pso2: GU/FO

[Cortte]

Now that Il Zonde is out I got to tinkering with a build. Now, I KNOW this build won't work at all because the ZRA bonuses only apply to when attacking with T.Mechs. But hear me out.

S-Roll JA bonus = +100% damage
Zero range advance 1 and 2 = +40% damage
Perfect keeper = +20% damage
Lightning Tree Masteries 1 and 2 = +40% damage
Chain Trigger and Chain finish = +35% damage

Combine all of that, then get a T.Mech that gives you +16% MORE damage for being close to the enemy and then just do one thing for me. S-Roll and JA Il Zonde.

That could potentially be a fully charged Il Zonde with 251% damage increase on top of whatever damage boost your chain combo will give you. I know none of this works. But SEGA is really shooting themselves in the leg by holding back this kind of potential man. I would LOVE to just sit here and build trees like this all the time.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

so many things wrong with this...Assuming it did all work, it still would be nothing compared to Gu/Hu

[LonelyGaruga]

ZRA applies to R-ATK centric damage, not all damage from Twin Machineguns. The same applies to Zero Effort. To even get the Chain Trigger and Chain Finish bonuses, you'd have to activate the chain and keep it up for a while to max it out in order to get the numbers you came up with. On top of that, your T-ATK damage, regardless of the bonuses that are practical, would be awful because without Brauvint you're looking at 0 T-ATK from your TMGs, barring affixes (which would only add like 100 at most). It's also impossible to get all of these skills maxed out together in the first place unless you sacrifice Twin Machinegun Gear, which might apply to techs (no idea).

While there are other things offering you damage from the Force tree that you missed, you'd be better off not using Gunner at all in there.

EDIT: OK yeah yeah I get that you know this doesn't work, but even if it did it would be bad.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Actually TC never included CT bonus just the Chain Finish skill. Still, you would need a weapon with enough T atk for those bonuses to make any difference.

Aside from that, TC also is saying they want these skills to work for everything, not just guns. Was the point of the whole thing.

None of it matters though because if those skills were improved like that, Hu/Gu would be a top tier class with Elder Pain and CT and Te/Gu would be better than Gu/Fo because Fo is doing nothing for gunner making the whole thing a stupid gimmck.

[LonelyGaruga]

TC doesn't seem to understand that ZRA works on things that aren't Twin Machineguns, or how Zero Effort functions, or that Tech JA Advance and Charge Tech Advance are things. I get that people want to speculate sometimes, but it's kind of important to know how the game functions right now before speculating.

The whole thing is about making Force good anyway, seeing how the entire build is focused solely on making Ilzonde good. It'd be much more sensible to ask for Ilzonde to be calculated with T-ATK using S-ATK % bonuses (Fury tree) than what TC is saying right now, so even discussing changes to Gunner just to benefit Force more is ridiculous. The whole thread's premise is ridiculous, that you can name classes that are impacted more by the suggested changes is proof of this. Won't touch the Hu/Gu stuff since that's really theorycrafting there (Elder Pain would still lose out on damage compared to other swords, swords are generally worse than Hunter's other options, etc).

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Damage from other sword would be marred by survivability and the ease of maintaining perfect keeper. That's far more important than 100 even 200 S atk.

Regardless, this topic is ridiculous. "make gunner make everything else better"? How about just make everything else better?

/thread

[Rien]

T-this is more ridiculous than me minmaxing the light element...

[UnLucky]

The whole thing is about making Force good anyway, seeing how the entire build is focused solely on making Ilzonde good. It'd be much more sensible to ask for Ilzonde to be calculated with T-ATK using S-ATK % bonuses (Fury tree) than what TC is saying right now, so even discussing changes to Gunner just to benefit Force more is ridiculous.
Pretty much. Fury working for techs would be a lot better than SRoll since it doesn't add "cast time"

Also I just have to say ZRA is 15%, not 20%, and bonuses multiply together so both together would be 132%, and 2xMastery=144%

[GALEFORCE]

Tbh, I really would like to try a brauvint gu/fo. They're still too rare and expensive to be buying and affixing for a joke build though.

[LonelyGaruga]

Damage from other sword would be marred by survivability and the ease of maintaining perfect keeper. That's far more important than 100 even 200 S atk.

All right, final nail in the coffin then: Even if Gunner's non Stylish Roll bonuses (excluded because they cannot function on anything that isn't a TMG) applied to any type of damage, it'd still provide worse bonuses than Fighter does right now, barring Chain Finish (and even then there's Chase Advance for S-ATK % and Wise Stance). I don't think not dying ever is going to make Hu/Gu top tier, a lot of Gu/Hu players I see that have Guld Milla prefer the 11* Zero Effort TMGs because it offers the opportunity to boost their damage even further as long as they play well. Same should be applicable to Hu/Gu, so Hu/Gu would just be a weaker Fighter that doesn't rely on Brave/Wise Stance.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

All right, final nail in the coffin then: Even if Gunner's non Stylish Roll bonuses (excluded because they cannot function on anything that isn't a TMG) applied to any type of damage, it'd still provide worse bonuses than Fighter does right now, barring Chain Finish (and even then there's Chase Advance for S-ATK % and Wise Stance). I don't think not dying ever is going to make Hu/Gu top tier, a lot of Gu/Hu players I see that have Guld Milla prefer the 11* Zero Effort TMGs because it offers the opportunity to boost their damage even further as long as they play well. Same should be applicable to Hu/Gu, so Hu/Gu would just be a weaker Fighter that doesn't rely on Brave/Wise Stance.

Even without stylish roll JA, ZRA is a .15 bonus. two of those + an easy to maintain perfect keeper is a 58% damage mod which outclasses brave stance by a good margin and doesn't require stance change unlike weak stance. combine that with APPR for easy PA spam and the scales start to tip. Since we're playing this game in narnia now anyway, just imagine if the stylish roll boost were expanded to work off of step attacks. At that point, Hu would lose top spot for best sub to gunner's staggering 317% damage bonus on step attacked JAed PAs with PK. Fi/Gu step attack + Backhand smash = boss confetti.

/math