List of weapons that cause frame drops?

[LonelyGaruga]

Recently, I've been hearing more about weapons that cause frame drops that I had no idea did so before, like Gekitsnata and Gyokumaizuru (the Tagamikazuchi Bow camo). I figure stuff like Oboro/Nishiki/Akane causing frame drops is common knowledge, and I recall seeing a list of Twin Daggers that caused frame drops posted somewhere a few months ago, which included Marie Nails, Niren Kamui, and Kanshou & Bakuya (don't recall any others listed). But Geki and the Taga Bow camo are two I would never have known about if they weren't mentioned to me in casual conversation. Additionally, it's been a concern with people I've been having these casual conversations with, as there could be, and probably are, weapons that cause frame drops that none of us knew about, simply because there isn't as much reason to talk about them as Nishiki and co.

So, my question is, is there a comprehensive list of weapons that cause frame drops? Or at the very least, a way to find this stuff out without personally testing every weapon, like, say, a specific phrase to look for in the JPN wikis? Seems to me that this would be of some importance, since causing frame drops for other players is unarguably bad, and a list would be really helpful for players looking to avoid causing frame drops for others, but don't know exactly which weapons do that.

[SakoHaruo]

I don't know about Geki causing frame rate issues. I use it everyday and HuBr in my party use it everyday without causing in drops on either side.

fun fact: at least 70% of the entire weapon chart for every class in the game does indeed cause lag when switching. So no, it's not just melee classes.

[btw-Niji]

Gekitsunata does not cause FPS drop.

Here's a small list of weapons I have personally experienced FPS drop with. Would be nice if people could pitch in and help compile a comprehensive list for this, but I doubt that will happen. Most people are selfish and don't care about others on this subject when it comes to dashing, anyway.

Knuckle:
Ex Blow
Discade

Dagger:
Bloody Art
Blade Dance
Bloody Art / Nacht
Astella
Lambda Astella
Twin Kamui
Twin Reaping / Licht
Nishiki*
Oboro*
Akane* > These three cause the biggest drop out of every weapon.
Cruel Flouga
Calvenix
Burial Saw
Marie Nails
Mizer Ripper
Kanshou & Bakuya (fate/stay dagger camo)

Katana:
Kalcizma
Lambda Kalcizma
Agito
Kougongin
Lamda Kougongin
Lacruico
Lambda Lacruico
Dio Lacruico

Also, all Falz 11* weapons.


I think Heart of Naberious drops FPS, but I'm not sure. I was in a TACO game with 3 randoms and one guy was WS triple dashing with that dagger + エレヌパラータ (Helen Palata?) partisan and it was hitting my FPS a bit. I'm not sure though-- I could've just had a bad client. Anybody else experienced drops from that dagger?

[Triple_S]

They really need to fix that shit. Someone shouldn't feel pressured not to use certain weapons - even for dashing - because they cause FPS drops on load for everyone.

[Remz69]

[SPOILER-BOX]Gekitsunata does not cause FPS drop.

Here's a small list of weapons I have personally experienced FPS drop with. Would be nice if people could pitch in and help compile a comprehensive list for this, but I doubt that will happen. Most people are selfish and don't care about others on this subject when it comes to dashing, anyway.

Knuckle:
Ex Blow
Discade

Dagger:
Bloody Art
Blade Dance
Bloody Art / Nacht
Astella
Lambda Astella
Twin Kamui
Twin Reaping / Licht
Nishiki*
Oboro*
Akane* > These three cause the biggest drop out of every weapon.
Cruel Flouga
Calvenix
Burial Saw
Marie Nails
Mizer Ripper
Kanshou & Bakuya (fate/stay dagger camo)

Katana:
Kalcizma
Lambda Kalcizma
Agito
Kougongin
Lamda Kougongin
Lacruico
Lambda Lacruico
Dio Lacruico

Also, all Falz 11* weapons.


I think Heart of Naberious drops FPS, but I'm not sure. I was in a TACO game with 3 randoms and one guy was WS triple dashing with that dagger + エレヌパラータ (Helen Palata?) partisan and it was hitting my FPS a bit. I'm not sure though-- I could've just had a bad client. Anybody else experienced drops from that dagger?[/SPOILER-BOX]

once we have all the ones that cause drops, we'd better make a list of the ones which do not drop fps cause the list would be smaller

i'll add what i know for sure to your list

TD:

draal volg
iblis blood
zexia ripper
twin filfin
arc flan - only tested a few times, seemed really small, but still there

DS:

Langritter

you're not gonna dash with DSs but if you're dashing you'll have to go back to your main weapons frequently so it's still bad and worth camo-ing if you're not already camo-ing something else

[Z-0]

Depending on your client, it works like this:

1. Every weapon load will cause FPS drops. I've had times where my 1* crafted daggers will cause me a lot of frame drops.
2. A select number of weapons will cause varying FPS drops. This is what this list is.
3. Nothing causes you frame drops.

I find that all Katana / Bows give me frame drops if my client isn't really good.
Aside from that, I have heard that Heart of Naberius causes frame drops too.

So does Elen Palata, the Partisan camo from the Bingo and probably a few other things I am forgetting.

EDIT: I'm honestly thinking that everything causes frame drops allegedly, but your client is what determines if you'll get drops or not. Assuming on a theoretical scale of 1-100, Nishiki is 100 (you need a banging client to not get a frame drop from it), Bloody Art is 50, while other weapons are 20, 5, 10, whatever.

[Chdata]

list of weapons to buy and main with

[Z-0]

Also, do Marie Nails cause frame loss? I've been in games with people using them and not noticing anything. I was going to get some for dashing too, since they have a PP recovery latent... Guess I'll have to camo.

[btw-Niji]

Also, do Marie Nails cause frame loss? I've been in games with people using them and not noticing anything. I was going to get some for dashing too, since they have a PP recovery latent... Guess I'll have to camo.
Yes, it does. The FPS drop is definitely not as bad as Nishiki, but it's there and it can get annoying if you're quad/penta dashing.

I have one and so does my friend.

[EvilMag]

Even how the game functions is completely random.

Man Sega wasn't kidding when they said they wanted the whole game to be random.

[btw-Niji]

Even how the game functions is completely random.

Man Sega wasn't kidding when they said they wanted the whole game to be random.
Yeah, I think it's pretty bullshit how you have to keep relaunching the game to not feel FPS loss from these weapons.

And you have to put up with that "pso2.exe is already running" prompt which makes the client REing process even more frustrating./

[Bellion]

It's because this game handles memory so bad.
Launch the game once, enter any quest, and then close it.
Re-do the same thing and you're guaranteed to make it load faster unless you've left your computer on for a long time or you've loaded it enough times.
Weapon switches will have less of an effect on your frame drops when comparing a 1st and 2nd game start up.

There's a niconico video going into a bit of detail on the subject of loading and frame drops, but I can't find it.

[LonelyGaruga]

Also, all Falz 11* weapons.

Guess that gives a reason to camo Elysion.


draal volg

Ugh, really? This applies to the Fin Volg too, right? A friend of mine just crafted a set to multiclass so that they could have aesthetically pleasant TDs to dash with without causing frame drops. Lame.


2. A select number of weapons will cause varying FPS drops. This is what this list is.

Hm...well, in that case, I'm not sure how important, exactly, using camos and such to prevent FPS drops would be, outside of the ones with the most significant drop. Is it worth worrying about as long as the weapon in question isn't Oboro/Nishiki/Akane?

[btw-Niji]

As long as you aren't really heavy with weapon switches, no it's not a big deal. But Nishiki series should be avoided at all costs.

[Kayarine]

Bingo partisan camo, Elen Palata and Lambda Kalicizma all cause drops? Well, I probably shouldn't quad dash during an average TACO session then. ;_;

If so many things cause frame drops, maybe a list of weapons that cause the heaviest would be good?
I had some really bad FPS drops with someone using the Taga bow camo, possibly close to Nishiki frame drops. I don't think my client was really bad that day, as other weapon switches didn't affect me so badly.

[ShinMaruku]

Even how the game functions is completely random.

Man Sega wasn't kidding when they said they wanted the whole game to be random.

It's terrible and rushed coding. It's also a side effect of them not really attempting a game like this. But all online games of this ilk have some terrible memory leaks (WoW's memory leak is legend)

[Rev+]

It's weird.. I never had frame drops from even Nishiki. Though I've caused fps lag to my teammates doing quads/pentas w/ all class twin daggers and Helen Palata. Well time to get a weapon camo for the partizan. I didn't know that it caused lag for some people.

[Coatl]

It's because this game handles memory so bad.
Launch the game once, enter any quest, and then close it.
Re-do the same thing and you're guaranteed to make it load faster unless you've left your computer on for a long time or you've loaded it enough times.
Weapon switches will have less of an effect on your frame drops when comparing a 1st and 2nd game start up.

There's a niconico video going into a bit of detail on the subject of loading and frame drops, but I can't find it.

Wait really? So...starting up the game and dashing around, then closing it and starting it again would reduce the frame rate drops?

[ShinMaruku]

Wait really? So...starting up the game and dashing around, then closing it and starting it again would reduce the frame rate drops?

Anything that resets how the memory is used will help. It's temporary of course.

[Zipzo]

I'm not going to argue against the actual existence of frame drops, because if it happens to you...it obviously happens.

What I am skeptical about is eyeballing someones weapon and just plain assuming that weapon causes it, when it may not even be the weapon at all but something completely different.

I'm one of "those" people who have yet to experience, and have never experienced even while playing with folks using Nishiki and other weapons stated explicitly here...a frame drop while people swap weapons (or use them).

So to me, I don't even care about what people use, and although it may be a bit of biased perception given my lack of actual experience with said frame drops, I feel like creating a giant hate train on people who happen to be using said weapons isn't really productive when the cause altogether may be something that has nothing to do with simply switching to the weapon.

[Rehal]

I'm one of "those" people who have yet to experience, and have never experienced even while playing with folks using Nishiki and other weapons stated explicitly here...a frame drop while people swap weapons (or use them).
Can always watch how it's like for the poor pleb folks.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23047524

When your game stutter everything is frozen for you, your movement, your input, monster location, blabla.
Missing a JA or fall behind other pt member or fail to land a hit because boss or goldie become desync after suffering framedrop is normal.

[UnLucky]

Probably just attribute it to server latency when it's actually a client issue.

I've certainly missed a few JAs because of a split second freeze. I cannot rely on muscle memory to time my JAs in MPA EQs because of these hangups. Like I have to wait until they're visually red or it won't count, and that timing is always slightly different.

Would be nice if you could just turn off weapon models for other players entirely. The lowest you can go for detailed models is 5 right now. But I'm not even sure that would fix the problem.

[DJcooltrainer]

Is it just a performance issue? I've lagged before, but I've never had issues with things 'freezing' in place as people are describing. This game does use an appalling amount of vRAM. I've seen my 2gb gtx670 near 100% usage if I have my in-game model count up to 100.

EDIT: By appalling, I mean it uses way more video memory than you would expect based off the quality of the visuals.

[Rev+]

Is it just a performance issue? I've lagged before, but I've never had issues with things 'freezing' in place as people are describing. This game does use an appalling amount of vRAM. I've seen my 2gb gtx670 near 100% usage if I have my in-game model count up to 100.

EDIT: By appalling, I mean it uses way more video memory than you would expect based off the quality of the visuals.

I've seen fps drop when weapons switch. I think 120fps makes it seem less of an issue.
If you run this game at 60fps i can see why it would make it unplayable. 120-110fps vs 60-50fps.
Nishiki drops my fps by 10 lol. Generally ill lose 3-4 fps per all class dagger switch.
Freezing in place has never happened to me before though.. Sounds weird lol.

[DJcooltrainer]

There's a big difference between your framerate lowering, and straight up freezing. It's not like jumping down from 60fps to 45fps, it seems more like their entire client freezes up for a frame, causing desync problems. At 45 fps, even though it might not look as smooth as 60, the animations are still running at the same speed. With the problem people have with some weapons it actually affects the timing of their combos.

[Rev+]

There's a big difference between your framerate lowering, and straight up freezing. It's not like jumping down from 60fps to 45fps, it seems more like their entire client freezes up for a frame, causing desync problems. At 45 fps, even though it might not look as smooth as 60, the animations are still running at the same speed. With the problem people have with some weapons it actually affects the timing of their combos.

This freezing sounds like sega still doesnt know how to make a game 8-)

[DJcooltrainer]

Well, it's never happened to me, so I can't say I'd agree. Poorly optimized, perhaps, but my rig isn't exactly 'high-end' and I can run it just fine. I would suspect a lot of people are running this game on lower-end computers and laptops that can't handle the ridiculous amount of resources it demands.

[Rev+]

Well, it's never happened to me, so I can't say I'd agree. Poorly optimized, perhaps, but my rig isn't exactly 'high-end' and I can run it just fine. I would suspect a lot of people are running this game on lower-end computers and laptops that can't handle the ridiculous amount of resources it demands.

I agree. I've never had these "issues''. My setup isn't god tier, or anything either. Just a 770gtx, i7 4770k, & 16g of ram..

[DJcooltrainer]

Hell, it's way better than what I've got. I'm still using an overclocked Phenom II X6 (4ghz lul), a single gtx670 (dat MSI power edition tho), and 8GB of DDR3. I only ever see FPS dips in highly populated lobbies when it's trying to load all the models. The game does seem to benefit from being installed to an SSD, if you've got the space for it.

[Rev+]

Hell, it's way better than what I've got. I'm still using an overclocked Phenom II X6 (4ghz lul), a single gtx670 (dat MSI power edition tho), and 8GB of DDR3. I only ever see FPS dips in highly populated lobbies when it's trying to load all the models. The game does seem to benefit from being installed to an SSD, if you've got the space for it.

I haven't installed it on my SSD. Its on my 5400 rpm HDD lol.
I might try it out on my SSD later on and compare the two.

[gigawuts]

I used to get these issues, but don't really anymore. Yeah, it interrupted combos and JA timing constantly. I do still get frame skip issues periodically, which can be infuriating if they keep lining up with my Srolling. I had a game where I missed 6 sroll JAs in a row because the game locked during each sroll, that was hilarious.

[Rev+]

I used to get these issues, but don't really anymore. Yeah, it interrupted combos and JA timing constantly. I do still get frame skip issues periodically, which can be infuriating if they keep lining up with my Srolling. I had a game where I missed 6 sroll JAs in a row because the game locked during each sroll, that was hilarious.

What are your computer specs?

[Coatl]

I always just tell people to camo yer shits. Studder is obnoxious. It's not funny to be quad dashing with nashiki.

[Rev+]

Someone switches weapons in front of me and my screen studders. It could be purely
coincidental, but what if it happens again and again and again? T

What are your computer specs?

[gigawuts]

What are your computer specs?

Not superb by modern standards, at all. I don't recall any of the exact specs, but needless to say it wouldn't wow anybody here.

It can run optimized games fairly well, even on very high settings. As soon as optimization is subpar though, I might as well be running the game on a TI-85.

PSO2 is pretty much the most recent subparly optimized game that it can run. GW2 was 20 fps at the very best, when I was alone in an area without tons of fire and shit going on.

[Coatl]

GeForce GTX 770 4GB Graphics Card. Though I must admit my processor isn't as up there but it's not crappy either.

[DJcooltrainer]

Sega's PC games are notorious for being CPU-bound. PSO2 just happens to also suffer from using insane amounts of video memory at the same time. It doesn't actually seem to tax my GPU much at all, when you look at temperatures. My CPU, on the other hand, gets a nice workout from PSO2.

[Rev+]

Sega's PC games are notorious for being CPU-bound. PSO2 just happens to also suffer from using insane amounts of video memory at the same time. It doesn't actually seem to tax my GPU much at all, when you look at temperatures. My CPU, on the other hand, gets a nice workout from PSO2.

PSOBB actually maxes out a single CPU core no matter what lol. Sega should learn how to make a proper game i swear.

[Chdata]

Twin Kamui really cause frame drops?

How about bio weapons?

[Kikikiki]

I never experienced any frame drops in TAs with people running Nishiki's and Kamui's and shit. The only rare occasions when I get frame drops is when I leave PSO2 on for too long, in which case I assumed that the memory flow was rekt somehow. But a game restart usually fixes it.

This applies both to my PC and my laptop.

[Rev+]

There was one time some guy was doing a quad step dash with Marie Nails in an emergency quest.
This was the first time i've experienced this Freezing/Lag.
It reminds me of Micro stutter, but worse. (Macro stutter LOL)
Having a bad start up is really annoying.

[Zipzo]

Would it be out of the realm of possibility to suggest that maybe this is an inherent issue with Twin Daggers overall, rather than specific to any particular Twin Dagger?

Here's the thing, I think I've seen at least every single Twin Dagger that is viably used in Super Hard mode mentioned as a cause for frame stutter when quad-dashing.

It gets to a point where the disadvantages seem to outweigh the benefits, does it not? Why Quad at all at that point if no matter what you swap to, you're going to lag everyone else?

Obviously quad dashing is invaluable for solo runs, but as for any group content...I guess I just don't see the point when you're are basically always running the risk of fucking other peoples game up.

Some people lag with this twin dagger, some people lag with this other twin dagger, it's just not not consistent enough across everyones game individually to make quad-ing in groups a sensible, party-friendly method of play.

In short, it would be beneficial to everyone to just avoid quads at all in groups/MPA. Why even take the risk?

[Z-0]

It's a problem with the game, if you will. All weapon switches can cause frame drops on lower-end computers, but there are certain weapons which can very easily drop frame drops on some of the higher-end computers too, which should always be avoided even if double stepping, preferably (of course, don't avoid weapons because of frame loss if you're using them for damage -- nobody is this thick to scowl on people for this).

Also, in the event that you're not dashing, you probably won't really notice this unless your computer is very bad. Personally, I just LA Triple when playing in randoms (rather than using weapon switch cancels), though.

Realistically SEGA should do something about it, because there's even a dumb phenomenom on PSO2 known as "selective client", which gives you faster loading times and overall less FPS loss when doing things. I'm not even joking, look it up・・・

[Rev+]

Its really dependent on if you have a shit start up, or not.
Some daggers do lag the game more frequently. (Nishiki, etc.)
Knowing that i avoid using stuff that is known to lag.
People who lag to other weapons have a bad load, or a really unoptimal computer setup. (Anyone in the "Can my computer run this thread")
I just LAC triple in MPA, and with people who i know lag really hard when i dash.

[UMVC3_Wolverine]

It seems like everyone has a different story when it comes to weapon switching FPS drops.

I used to get a HUGE fps drops back when I was using my 2007 PC which had a core 2 duo E8500 (was a very strong cpu back in da day!) and a 8800GT and 4 gigs of DDR2 ram. This was on windows XP.

Now 7 years later I made a brand new rig with a 4770K that is OC to 4.4, 16 gigs of DDR3(1600) and a GTX 680 (that I borrowed from a friend since he said I should wait for the 800 series instead of getting a GTX780).

After thus huge upgrade my pso2 runs perfectly smooth 60 fps at all times even if you use nikishi it doesn't matter I don't get any FPS drops. This is with maxed out settings with 1080p res and including Nvidia Inspector to add anti aliasing.

My game is also installed on my Samsung evo 840 ssd but that's mostly to squeeze out the fastest loading possible :3

I like to load first :)

[btw-Niji]

There is something about "higher end" PC rigs that will greatly raise the chance of getting the "best client"... and with that, you won't be affected at all by bad weapons.

I think it might be SSD, but I'm not sure since I don't have one. If there's any other SSD users on this forum who know about "selective clients", please tell us your experience.

With my PC (which isn't that great btw), it can take anywhere from 5 minutes to 2 hours of client relaunching to get the best one for zero FPS stutter from weapon switch.

Edit:

Twin Kamui really cause frame drops?

How about bio weapons?
Yes... I have personally tested Bio weapon and it hits as hard as Nishiki does.

[DJcooltrainer]

Zero micro-stutter here, game is installed on an SSD. Although it used to be installed to a 7200RPM HDD, I never noticed issues with that either, I just installed it to my SSD for faster patching/file checking/loading. I run the game at max settings with vysnc on, if it makes a difference.

What is this 'best client' thing you speak of? It doesn't seem logical to me, if re-launching the game several times improves your performance in any way, I think it might be an issue with caching.

[Rayden]

I still have yet to ever experience this supposed problem. I think people just need to get better computers.

[SammyKiller]

I still have yet to ever experience this supposed problem. I think people just need to get better computers.

i5 3570k at 4.0ghz+, x2 GTX 660ti oc'd, multiple SSD's, 8gb ram minimum at all times.

I still see this issue, although not as frequent. When I "hunt" for a good client and actually get one, it will degrade overtime by different issues with the game itself, such as

1.Multiple characters loading in very populate lobbies (doing this frequently will cause it to degrade and it will be very apparent when playing with other people, the stutter, I mean).
2. Multiple people using Dash/step daggers that cause lag, Nikishi, Marie Nails and a lot other of daggers will cause the client to degrade with time, if you played something like that Cougar EX lilipa EQ with multiple people who dash you will see exactly what I mean, the stutter is real and its super apparent, even on a PC that can run battlefield 4 all maxed at 1080p over 80FPS constant.

There's more things that will cause it to degrade and some people might never even get to know what's the difference between a good and bad client because they simply don't pay attention to these kinds of things.

Justmy2cents.

[btw-Niji]

What is this 'best client' thing you speak of? It doesn't seem logical to me, if re-launching the game several times improves your performance in any way, I think it might be an issue with caching.
I don't know why it's like this, but I have team mates who play on "beast" PCs that need to restart PSO2 for a good client.

Sometimes I can get "best client" after 1 relaunch... sometimes it takes 50+.

Some would say it's "rng", but it's not. There's something going on with the game and how it starts up. I really want to know what causes the game to give you different results of performance after each time you relaunch it, but it seems figuring out the answer to this is impossible . . .

Edit: and yeah, forgot to mention the client degrades over time. I see a noticeable performance drop after ~3 hours of play.


I still have yet to ever experience this supposed problem. I think people just need to get better computers.
Go away, ignorant child.

[Alukard]

Zero micro-stutter here, game is installed on an SSD. Although it used to be installed to a 7200RPM HDD, I never noticed issues with that either, I just installed it to my SSD for faster patching/file checking/loading. I run the game at max settings with vysnc on, if it makes a difference.

What is this 'best client' thing you speak of? It doesn't seem logical to me, if re-launching the game several times improves your performance in any way, I think it might be an issue with caching.

The client is just poorly programmed and there is indeed a "rng client startup". Your fps cap shouldn't affect your loading times either, yet 120 fps has significant faster loading times for me than 60fps. Obviously you are more likely to get less fps drops on higher end PCs. Fps drops are especially annoying when penta dashing due to it's stricter nature, working around fps drops during quad is fairly easy though.

[MountainLynx]

I also have yet to experience noticeable lag on this machine. Client is installed on a pair of 7200 RPM drives in RAID 0.

[Rayden]

i5 3570k at 4.0ghz+, x2 GTX 660ti oc'd, multiple SSD's, 8gb ram minimum at all times.

I still see this issue, although not as frequent. When I "hunt" for a good client and actually get one, it will degrade overtime by different issues with the game itself, such as

1.Multiple characters loading in very populate lobbies (doing this frequently will cause it to degrade and it will be very apparent when playing with other people, the stutter, I mean).
2. Multiple people using Dash/step daggers that cause lag, Nikishi, Marie Nails and a lot other of daggers will cause the client to degrade with time, if you played something like that Cougar EX lilipa EQ with multiple people who dash you will see exactly what I mean, the stutter is real and its super apparent, even on a PC that can run battlefield 4 all maxed at 1080p over 80FPS constant.

There's more things that will cause it to degrade and some people might never even get to know what's the difference between a good and bad client because they simply don't pay attention to these kinds of things.

Justmy2cents.

I have almost the same computer specs as you, but I truly haven't ever experienced this problem. I see plenty of people dashing with those twin daggers all the time in big groups, and I don't get any FPS drops. I even dash with Nishiki and Marie Nails myself with no issues, although I don't know if it's only supposed to be when other people dash with them or not. I leave PSO2 running on my computer all day long (for 16-30 hours), and I don't have to restart it to try to get a "good client" or anything. The game just works fine. :-?

[Alukard]

I have almost the same computer specs as you, but I truly haven't ever experienced this problem. I see plenty of people dashing with those twin daggers all the time in big groups, and I don't get any FPS drops. I even dash with Nishiki and Marie Nails myself with no issues, although I don't know if it's only supposed to be when other people dash with them or not. I leave PSO2 running on my computer all day long (for 16-30 hours), and I don't have to restart it to try to get a "good client" or anything. The game just works fine. :-?

Cg, but do other people a favour and stop using those daggers.

[btw-Niji]

I even dash with Nishiki and Marie Nails myself with no issues
Please tell us your name so we can blacklist you.

Thanks!

[SammyKiller]

I have almost the same computer specs as you, but I truly haven't ever experienced this problem. I see plenty of people dashing with those twin daggers all the time in big groups, and I don't get any FPS drops. I even dash with Nishiki and Marie Nails myself with no issues, although I don't know if it's only supposed to be when other people dash with them or not. I leave PSO2 running on my computer all day long (for 16-30 hours), and I don't have to restart it to try to get a "good client" or anything. The game just works fine. :-?

I wish I had a better way to prove my points to you, maybe recording in video would be one but since almost every program destroys FPS or locks them to 30 means It would probably wont be as obvious as it when playing real time.

Maybe, you still haven't been on parties or groups that say more than 8 of 12 players do quad dash+ constantly with these daggers, its very apparent at this point.

[Alukard]

I doubt you need 8+ people dashing with nishiki to notice the fps drops. My guess is that those people don't notice the inconsistency, because they don't do anything that requires consistency. I wonder if they monitor their fps, so they'd have at least the numbers for comparison.

[SammyKiller]

Good point.

[Rev+]

I have almost the same computer specs as you, but I truly haven't ever experienced this problem. I see plenty of people dashing with those twin daggers all the time in big groups, and I don't get any FPS drops. I even dash with Nishiki and Marie Nails myself with no issues, although I don't know if it's only supposed to be when other people dash with them or not. I leave PSO2 running on my computer all day long (for 16-30 hours), and I don't have to restart it to try to get a "good client" or anything. The game just works fine. :-?

LOL well it won't lag me, but you'll lag everyone else.
Bad load is really the only time i have ever experienced this stutter.
I'm using an OC'd [email protected], 16g of ram, and a 770gtx.
I don't run this game on my SSD.

[DJcooltrainer]

The client is just poorly programmed and there is indeed a "rng client startup". Your fps cap shouldn't affect your loading times either, yet 120 fps has significant faster loading times for me than 60fps. Obviously you are more likely to get less fps drops on higher end PCs. Fps drops are especially annoying when penta dashing due to it's stricter nature, working around fps drops during quad is fairly easy though.

Until someone can prove this to me, I'm going to consider it nothing more than speculative bullplop. Re-launching the game isn't going to make any changes to your client files. I have never found that restarting PSO2 improves my performance at all. In fact, the lobbies seem to run smoother if I've been idling in the lobby for a few hours... There has to be something else happening beneath the surface here. I would be more inclined to believe it's an issue with specific types of hardware (maybe specific GPU's or CPU's cause issues? this is a super common issue with tons of other PC games), or drivers. We need to start documenting who is having problems with frame drops and what kind of hardware they use to try and find a common factor here.

My rig is very much mid-range, not high end. I don't get dropped frames from PSO2, unless I'm in a lobby where it's loading a ton of character models, and that usually only lasts a couple of seconds.

[Z-0]

I can't "prove" it to you, but take my word for it when I say it's true.

Selective Client is a phenomenon known by plenty of players, and it's documented on Japanese websites.

For example:
http://ameblo.jp/yuugenbana/entry-11776107113.html
http://butatogame.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-1760.html
http://butatogame.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-1771.html <--- This entry also had a video explaining the specifics of it and showing it in action. Pay attention how there's less stutter when loading and whatnot on repeated actions, although this isn't always the case.

[Alukard]

Until someone can prove this to me, I'm going to consider it nothing more than speculative bullplop. Re-launching the game isn't going to make any changes to your client files. I have never found that restarting PSO2 improves my performance at all. In fact, the lobbies seem to run smoother if I've been idling in the lobby for a few hours... There has to be something else happening beneath the surface here. I would be more inclined to believe it's an issue with specific types of hardware (maybe specific GPU's or CPU's cause issues? this is a super common issue with tons of other PC games), or drivers. We need to start documenting who is having problems with frame drops and what kind of hardware they use to try and find a common factor here.

My rig is very much mid-range, not high end. I don't get dropped frames from PSO2, unless I'm in a lobby where it's loading a ton of character models, and that usually only lasts a couple of seconds.

Guess why I put precisely that into quotation mark, I merely used it to describe the issue. It's in no way supposed to explain the happenings. I don't get different performance upon starting the game on any other game. If my system performs poor in that game, it doesn't change unless I make some changes myself. If it performs good, it doesn't change until I use higher settings.

What plenty of people are describing in this thread ( even the ones with high end systems) is different performance upon starting their client. Sometimes it's fine, others it isn't. As I said before, it's highly likely that you don't play this game on a level that requires consistency, making the inconsistency less noticeable. Or would you say we are all a bunch of liars making up an issue?

Also, I'd love to see you prove the randomness of an algorithm. ^^;

[Stormwalker]

Just out of curiosity... Is this the phenomenon that causes me to sometimes stutter midair on an SRoll and then either get the JA circle late or not get it at all?

Only ever see this happen during TD or Falz, but I solo or duo most other times...

[Z-0]

Yep, it's exactly that. Someone will be switching a weapon somewhere in the map (doesn't necessarily have to be for dashing, or even close to you), and it can cause frame drops.

[DJcooltrainer]

Guess why I put precisely that into quotation mark, I merely used it to describe the issue. It's in no way supposed to explain the happenings. I don't get different performance upon starting the game on any other game. If my system performs poor in that game, it doesn't change unless I make some changes myself. If it performs good, it doesn't change until I use higher settings.

What plenty of people are describing in this thread ( even the ones with high end systems) is different performance upon starting their client. Sometimes it's fine, others it isn't. As I said before, it's highly likely that you don't play this game on a level that requires consistency, making the inconsistency less noticeable. Or would you say we are all a bunch of liars making up an issue?

Also, I'd love to see you prove the randomness of an algorithm. ^^;

I'm not doubting that people are experiencing the problem, but I am doubting that randomly rebooting your client is actually 'fixing' the issue. There's so many factors you have to take into consideration here. Component temperatures, driver versions, operating system, other software running in the background that might be sharing resources, network speeds, etc.

I saw someone earlier, for example, say that the problem tends to get worse the longer the client is left open. You know what also happens when you leave a 3D game running for several hours? Your temps are more than likely going to increase considerably, which can affect the performance of your hardware.

Sorry for any confusion, based on the term 'best client' I thought people were actually suggesting that restarting the client somehow fixed the problem at hand. I'm not trying to be difficult, but I do make a living on identifying and solving issues like this.

EDIT: And yeah, I could go on for awhile about proving 'randomness', but that's a math story for another time and place.

[Alukard]

I'm not doubting that people are experiencing the problem, but I am doubting that randomly rebooting your client is actually 'fixing' the issue. There's so many factors you have to take into consideration here. Component temperatures, driver versions, operating system, other software running in the background that might be sharing resources, network speeds, etc.

I saw someone earlier, for example, say that the problem tends to get worse the longer the client is left open. You know what also happens when you leave a 3D game running for several hours? Your temps are more than likely going to increase considerably, which can affect the performance of your hardware.

Sorry for any confusion, based on the term 'best client' I thought people were actually suggesting that restarting the client somehow fixed the problem at hand. I'm not trying to be difficult, but I do make a living on identifying and solving issues like this.

EDIT: And yeah, I could go on for awhile about proving 'randomness', but that's a math story for another time and place.

The sad part is that restarting can make the game indeed less laggy. Now being critical of such a claim is only natural and your questions are certainly justified. I'm not sure on how often it happens to people that their game becomes more laggy the longer they have it up. I personally didn't experience that so far since I usually don't play it longer than 2-3h. That brings us to the next issue, what exactly is considered "long"?

I'm sure that the computer enthusiasts around here with their OC'ed cpu and whatnot monitor their temps. I'm confident that updating drivers or testing older drivers for better compatibility is a standard process for those people.

Let me try to frame the divergence between us. It seems that you are indicating this would be more of an user related issue while I am claiming that it's mostly segas faulty programming.

[DJcooltrainer]

Restarting the client seems to help, but only for awhile, right? Methinks that it's a problem that occurs fairly "randomly" (actually probably based on pretty specific things/events, but you know what I mean :D ), and you just happen not to be experiencing it when you restarted the client that time. But, from what I can understand, it will inevitably start happening again.

Again, if this is a fault with the client, why are some people having the problem on high-end rigs, while others aren't? I think we need to dig deeper if we truly want to get to the bottom of things.

[Rev+]

Restarting the client seems to help, but only for awhile, right? Methinks that it's a problem that occurs fairly "randomly" (actually probably based on pretty specific things/events, but you know what I mean :D ), and you just happen not to be experiencing it when you restarted the client that time. But, from what I can understand, it will inevitably start happening again.

Again, if this is a fault with the client, why are some people having the problem on high-end rigs, while others aren't? I think we need to dig deeper if we truly want to get to the bottom of things.

Do you do quad/penta dashes? I would not really notice the lag if i didn't dash lol. It's like having a frame of freeze like micro stutter, and it fucks my inputs up.

[Chdata]

I never experienced any frame drops in TAs with people running Nishiki's and Kamui's and shit. The only rare occasions when I get frame drops is when I leave PSO2 on for too long, in which case I assumed that the memory flow was rekt somehow. But a game restart usually fixes it.

This applies both to my PC and my laptop.

I wouldn't be surprised if PSO2 accumulates memory leaks over time. I like to leave the game open for long periods of time and I noticed yesterday it seemed to be lagging my entire computer, filesystem and everything. I couldn't open notepad or a folder without lag. I restarted my computer since and it's completely fine now.


There is something about "higher end" PC rigs that will greatly raise the chance of getting the "best client"... and with that, you won't be affected at all by bad weapons.

I think it might be SSD, but I'm not sure since I don't have one. If there's any other SSD users on this forum who know about "selective clients", please tell us your experience.

With my PC (which isn't that great btw), it can take anywhere from 5 minutes to 2 hours of client relaunching to get the best one for zero FPS stutter from weapon switch.

Edit:

Yes... I have personally tested Bio weapon and it hits as hard as Nishiki does.

May I ask how you guys are testing for FPS drops? I have fraps but I can't attach it to PSO2.

Also, does anyone know if removing the intro videos through Tweaker actually helps framerate later?

[Alukard]

I wouldn't be surprised if PSO2 accumulates memory leaks over time. I like to leave the game open for long periods of time and I noticed yesterday it seemed to be lagging my entire computer, filesystem and everything. I couldn't open notepad or a folder without lag. I restarted my computer since and it's completely fine now.



May I ask how you guys are testing for FPS drops? I have fraps but I can't attach it to PSO2.

Also, does anyone know if removing the intro videos through Tweaker actually helps framerate later?

Fraps auto-attaches itself to any opengl/directx based game. try pressing f12 ingame or f11 once and f12 twice since that can shift/disable the fps counter.

[DJcooltrainer]

Do you do quad/penta dashes? I would not really notice the lag if i didn't dash lol. It's like having a frame of freeze like micro stutter, and it fucks my inputs up.

Yes, I quad dash pretty frequently. I'm too much of a scrub to penta, tho, lol. I've been able to notice micro stutter in games before. It's the main reason I decided to ditch AMD's Crossfire and join club nVidia. (Google search 'frame rating' with Crossfire vs SLI if you don't know what I'm talking about. I'm quite familiar with microstutter thanks to AMD.) It made the initial release of SSFIV:AE for Steam unplayable. Plinking when you're getting random dropped frames is next to impossible.

[9898]

if ur not poor just run raid 0 like me and you'll be fine

i just periodically restart domU that has games on it so dumb shit like memory leaks don't tarnish performance. i can't say i've any firsthand experience w/ the long term memory issues in the game

guess i'll post my windows 7 DomU specs for ref:

xeon1245v2, 16gb ram allocated to win7, 2x ssd (sata3) in raid 0 w/ 2tb additional storage w/ an old card passed through w/ vt-d. dom0 is deb wheezy for reference

[stroodle]

When I switched from CenturyLink to Comcast broadband, I have been noticing a lot of differences in performance. Negative differences, that is, even though the broadband is supposedly faster (was 20Mbps now 30Mbps).

Before, during TA's I could quad dash (can't pent cuz I suck) with Marie Nails and notice no stutter at all, in fact, I never noticed any kind of stutter from weapon swapping at all. I would camo them when in MPA's and stuff (when I was alone or with friends I wouldn't cuz I think they look cool lol)
Now, I absolutely have to camo them even when I'm solo on an empty block after relaunches/restarts of PSO2 and my computer itself.

Also, ever since the switch to comcast, my chat translator has been displaying [Untranslated] over and over again when I have never ever seen this before. And at times, the english translation will sometimes have trouble keeping up (30 seconds to minutes behind, and will always display [Untranslated])
I used to stay logged in B-011 for an entire week, consistently, until maintenance kicked me.

So internet provider seems to be an issue for me.

My specs are Windows 7 Professional 64-bit, Intel Core i7-4770K CPU @ 3.5 GHz, 16.0GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti

[9898]

When I switched from CenturyLink to Comcast broadband, I have been noticing a lot of differences in performance. Negative differences, that is, even though the broadband is supposedly faster (was 20Mbps now 30Mbps).

Before, during TA's I could quad dash (can't pent cuz I suck) with Marie Nails and notice no stutter at all, in fact, I never noticed any kind of stutter from weapon swapping at all. I would camo them when in MPA's and stuff (when I was alone or with friends I wouldn't cuz I think they look cool lol)
Now, I absolutely have to camo them even when I'm solo on an empty block after relaunches/restarts of PSO2 and my computer itself.

Also, ever since the switch to comcast, my chat translator has been displaying [Untranslated] over and over again when I have never ever seen this before. And at times, the english translation will sometimes have trouble keeping up (30 seconds to minutes behind, and will always display [Untranslated])
I used to stay logged in B-011 for an entire week, consistently, until maintenance kicked me.

So internet provider seems to be an issue for me.

My specs are Windows 7 Professional 64-bit, Intel Core i7-4770K CPU @ 3.5 GHz, 16.0GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti
comcast is significantly worse than centurylink in terms of connection quality, but unfortunately comcast has my area monopolized. i ping anywhere from 70-160 to japan whereas i used to ping 55-120 TOPS to the servers. sometimes i tracert through south america... :/

[stroodle]

comcast is significantly worse than centurylink in terms of connection quality, but unfortunately comcast has my area monopolized. i ping anywhere from 70-160 to japan whereas i used to ping 55-120 TOPS to the servers. sometimes i tracert through south america... :/

Wow, I had no idea...(This is the last time I'll let my roommates make decisions without me)

It's a good thing I haven't cancelled my old service yet, though I have to get someone from centurylink to re-connect the cables that the comcast guy cut...

[Alukard]

comcast is significantly worse than centurylink in terms of connection quality, but unfortunately comcast has my area monopolized. i ping anywhere from 70-160 to japan whereas i used to ping 55-120 TOPS to the servers. sometimes i tracert through south america... :/

I tracert through gb->us->jp. kinda funny, the germans cry on how the nsa and gchq is spying on them, no fucking wonder when it all goes through their pipes.

If they'd use russia and china to go through to japan it'd cut off easily 30% of the ping. you can't trust those either I suppose, but I'm all for the consumer to make that decision.

[Zipzo]

Until I experience it myself I'm going to forever assume that the many reasons people blame for this issue occurring are simply wive's tales.

As I stated in my first post, I certainly believe it happens, I see no reason someone would fib about frame drops, but there are so many speculative theories, and folks who experience this simply need something to blame because it must be impossible that it's an issue with their own gear.

I'm also not saying it's some kind of easy to target issue with clear identifiers.

Memory leaks are a thing. I remember TERA had an awful memory leak, where if the client was open for long enough, opening menus/bags/anything to do with the interface would cause a massive freeze and it only got worse and worse the longer it was open. Absolutely horrible. This honestly is a possible candidate for what's going on here, but so are many other things and different PCs have different capabilities for handling that sort of issue.

As a personal add, I play on a previous generation gaming laptop, and I experience zero slowdown, no matter who is using what.

My opinion essentially flies in two directions on this issue, either ignore all the people who blame you about slow down which will get them to b-list you, or insist that nobody should use Twin Daggers period which will get anybody who uses a Twin Dagger to b-list you. In either case, you're going to get people bitching from either camp. It's just not worth working around the needs of the world population to make sure you aren't lagging anyone. You simply can't take everyone in the world's computer in to mind when choosing how you play.

Those with issues should explore their own issues instead of trying to place blame on someone else for simply playing the game. If it were one single weapon causing this, then sure, we can brood and give anyone that uses that weapon the stink-eye (used to be JUST Nishiki), but now the list essentially extends over a giant smorgasbord of weapons, including almost every single important Twin Dagger in existence. I'm not going to stop dashing with Twin Kamui in the rotation because one person on the internet said "omg even Twin Kamui lags me".

[Chdata]

I think they should be ranked by impact because I think only stuff like Nishiki is what's really bad.

[Alukard]

I'm not going to stop dashing with Twin Kamui in the rotation because one person on the internet said "omg even Twin Kamui lags me".




In short, it would be beneficial to everyone to just avoid quads at all in groups/MPA. Why even take the risk?

Which now? You seem inconclusive, son. At first I thought you mean LA tri, but since you are speaking of a rotation it's obviously regular tri or quad ( do u even penta, son?)

[Rev+]

I think they should be ranked by impact because I think only stuff like Nishiki is what's really bad.

I vote Marie Nails as the one with the most impact.

[9898]

Until I experience it myself I'm going to forever assume that the many reasons people blame for this issue occurring are simply wive's tales.

As I stated in my first post, I certainly believe it happens, I see no reason someone would fib about frame drops, but there are so many speculative theories, and folks who experience this simply need something to blame because it must be impossible that it's an issue with their own gear.

I'm also not saying it's some kind of easy to target issue with clear identifiers.

Memory leaks are a thing. I remember TERA had an awful memory leak, where if the client was open for long enough, opening menus/bags/anything to do with the interface would cause a massive freeze and it only got worse and worse the longer it was open. Absolutely horrible. This honestly is a possible candidate for what's going on here, but so are many other things and different PCs have different capabilities for handling that sort of issue.

As a personal add, I play on a previous generation gaming laptop, and I experience zero slowdown, no matter who is using what.

My opinion essentially flies in two directions on this issue, either ignore all the people who blame you about slow down which will get them to b-list you, or insist that nobody should use Twin Daggers period which will get anybody who uses a Twin Dagger to b-list you. In either case, you're going to get people bitching from either camp. It's just not worth working around the needs of the world population to make sure you aren't lagging anyone. You simply can't take everyone in the world's computer in to mind when choosing how you play.

Those with issues should explore their own issues instead of trying to place blame on someone else for simply playing the game. If it were one single weapon causing this, then sure, we can brood and give anyone that uses that weapon the stink-eye (used to be JUST Nishiki), but now the list essentially extends over a giant smorgasbord of weapons, including almost every single important Twin Dagger in existence. I'm not going to stop dashing with Twin Kamui in the rotation because one person on the internet said "omg even Twin Kamui lags me".

post your specs son. if you thinks memory leaks are an issue post your htop/task manager right now and let's see what you have running son. curious to see your "previous generation" setup that runs the game absolutely perfectly when we have people here who have 3k+ rigs who stutter or have other issues.

honestly though i just don't think you notice these things, which wouldn't be a first (see sig, see ur post history etc)

[Chdata]

I vote Marie Nails as the one with the most impact.

What do you mean by "vote"? This is something that can be tested and ranked objectively, not based on how what you "think".

Also, most weapons don't cause me significant frame drop, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be ignorant/arrogant and completely disregard how much it lags others when I dash with a bio katana (now using a different katana for asagiri dashing).

(I've had people complain, both EN and JP, back when I used to use Nishiki. The EN guy in particular explained that every single weapon switch freezes him for a second and the JP guy just kinda swore at me in weird Engrish).

[9898]

hey guys who has mystic eyes like me and can see 1 frame shit if you can't you shouldn't be posting here really

[Chdata]

I also happened to notice that my switching stutters more often now with bio katana as opposed to the crafted 6* I was using before that.

It's unlikely that memory leaks are the cause of weapon switching related lag. That would be a problem with the game as a whole and leaving it open for long periods of time as I already mentioned.

Weapon switching is more likely related to actually loading the 3D models and textures of the graphics related to them. Who knows, it's possible for this problem to contribute to memory leaks over time as well, but memory leaks aren't a cause of weapon related lag. It's more likely that simply loading these things constantly during dashes is what causes the FPS dropping. Of course, keeping them rendered can too.

Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean that other people who do experience it are "jumping to conclusions" as to why it happens. I think we mostly just have to worry about people using those Nishiki-like daggers, but I don't know just how much of an impact each weapon in Niji's list are.

[UMVC3_Wolverine]

Having a strong CPU and Vid card will def help with the game load times and weapon switching lag.

Its funny how some people here are saying that they never experience this issue. Well if you play on the PSX settings with low res then im sure your game will run just fine.

I for one can speak on both sides. Ive experienced the weapon switching lag many times on my old pc.

The only thing that fixed it was making a brand new rig with high end components. I know this "fix" isn't very realistic but this is what fixed it for me.

[16085k]

I don't think I've ever had a session where people switching their weapons rapidly didn't make it nearly unplayable. I doubt I've had a bad client every time I've launched the game, but depending on what causes the bad client it may be possible. Other than the dashing issue, the only problems I have running the game are very bad startup and load times. My computer is bad but it shouldn't struggle to run this game decently.

[btw-Niji]

I vote Marie Nails as the one with the most impact.
marie nails actually hits the least when it comes to other "bad" daggers, but it can get annoying if there's multiple users and you have a bad client.

some numbers with my system and best client (fraps FPS counter)
campship @flat 500 FPS
nonrare dagger 500->493~493.5
marie nails 500->490
nishiki 500->484
bio wep 500->484~484.5
Twin reaping 500->486

im intoxicated atm but srsly. STFU PSOW. the majority of ppl on this forum don't know what the hellthey're talking abiout. my god, reading the new posts on this thread is givingg my a terrible headache. i think it's time fotr bed.

thx,

[Kikikiki]

For the record, my laptop is an ASUS K53SD-DS51, with 8GB RAM. I also replaced the DVD Reader with an SSD. Obviously I don't play games a lot on my laptop, but PSO2 runs just fine on it.

[Zipzo]

Which now? You seem inconclusive, son. At first I thought you mean LA tri, but since you are speaking of a rotation it's obviously regular tri or quad ( do u even penta, son?)

It's not inconclusive, reading comprehension would assist you here, but I was simply speaking in the form of the devils advocate.

The overall point here is that the real, definitive hypothetical solution for either party flies in the face of other players either way, which makes the contradiction relevant.

Also, it seems pedantic of you to ignore the fact that you don't even have to dash to experience frame drops from other people who are dashing. It's not like dashing is the only thing in this game that requires well-timed inputs in order to execute properly.


I think they should be ranked by impact because I think only stuff like Nishiki is what's really bad.

I vote Marie Nails as the one with the most impact.

What do you mean by "vote"? This is something that can be tested and ranked objectively, not based on how what you "think".

Also, most weapons don't cause me significant frame drop, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be ignorant/arrogant and completely disregard how much it lags others when I dash with a bio katana (now using a different katana for asagiri dashing).

This is sort of what I'm getting at. Everyone has their own theory as to which weapon has a worse affect than the other. Ranking them across a number of opinions from so many different folks with so many different experiences will basically be impossible. All you can do is say "This one causes frame drops, and this one doesn't", in which, you meet in the middle of the road with folks who experience zero frame drops.


post your specs son. if you thinks memory leaks are an issue post your htop/task manager right now and let's see what you have running son. curious to see your "previous generation" setup that runs the game absolutely perfectly when we have people here who have 3k+ rigs who stutter or have other issues.

honestly though i just don't think you notice these things, which wouldn't be a first (see sig, see ur post history etc)

Dear god, having a conversation with you feels like trying to get a a down syndrome child to recite Shakespeare or to say something thought-provoking or useful. Even worse is you actually do speak but everything that comes out is the sheer definition of stupid, but I will actually bite here.

Intel Core i7-2630QM CPU @ 2.00 GHz, 8 CPU ~2.0 GHz
8192MB RAM

Video Card
Nvidia GeForce GTX 460M
4049MB Memory

I don't overclock.

I also do dash now, and experience zero frame drops with people who dash frequently. My computer is not a powerhouse in the slightest, just a regular run-of-the-mill gaming laptop from last generation.

It probably has nothing to do with rig power, seeing as there is such a diverse range of folks who experience no issues. It's probably something completely different. I don't know what it is though, personally. I've also never had to care because I don't have to deal with it.

[Chdata]

This is sort of what I'm getting at. Everyone has their own theory as to which weapon has a worse affect than the other. Ranking them across a number of opinions from so many different folks with so many different experiences will basically be impossible. All you can do is say "This one causes frame drops, and this one doesn't", in which, you meet in the middle of the road with folks who experience zero frame drops.

I also do dash now, and experience zero frame drops with people who dash frequently. My computer is not a powerhouse in the slightest, just a regular run-of-the-mill gaming laptop from last generation.

It probably has nothing to do with rig power, seeing as there is such a diverse range of folks who experience no issues. It's probably something completely different. I don't know what it is though, personally. I've also never had to care because I don't have to deal with it.

@paragraph1

I didn't say to rank them across opinions like the guy you quoted. That would be stupid. Rank them like Niji's list, and have people with different specs do the same test to make sure they're consistent. If it turns out marie nails are worse than nishiki for some people or something, then we actually know that that's not a good frame of reference. You don't even know if the guy you quoted actually tested different daggers and whatnot.

Of course, I'm poor person and can't get marie nails/twin reaping/a bunch of weapons... have to save meseta for other stuff. The only things that have ever really notably affected me are nishiki/bio katana if I'm using them, I've never really much attention to what other people use.

@all

I agree with Niji... the lack of technical knowledge here... I'm not an expert, but obviously some computers with lesser specs or some other issue can/will be impacted more. Maybe you happen to have a good enough graphics card or something.

[Zipzo]

@paragraph1

I didn't say to rank them across opinions like the guy you quoted. That would be stupid. Rank them like Niji's list, and have people with different specs do the same test to make sure they're consistent. If it turns out marie nails are worse than nishiki for some people or something, then we actually know that that's not a good frame of reference. You don't even know if the guy you quoted actually tested different daggers and whatnot.

Of course, I'm poor person and can't get marie nails/twin reaping/a bunch of weapons... have to save meseta for other stuff. The only things that have ever really notably affected me are nishiki/bio katana if I'm using them, I've never really much attention to what other people use.

I'm not talking about opinions.

Different people literally experience different affects with each specific weapon. This person might have a horrid time with Marie Nails, this other person might find Marie Nails to be just fine but Twin Kamui to be awful. Some other person might find both to be bad. Others, neither.

You'd be documenting every single weapon and the increment in which it hurts every single variable computer spec (utterly unreasonable), which still wouldn't even be something concrete to go on, because we still don't even know for sure (with concrete evidence) if it's the computer itself that is the problem. Again, if solution flies in the face of people on both sides, then people will just ignore the list because it's not worth the trouble.

You can't rank them in any order of their affect in a way that will apply to everyone, which means there's no point in ranking them at all.

[Chdata]

Who have you met that have shown you actual tests saying that marie nails has no impact while twin reaping is terrible, etc etc.

We don't need to test it for every possible computer spec. You can come up with a generalization from just a few. We would need a lot of different weapons though of course.

e.g., I won't take your post saying that "different people experience different things with no correlation" until you start actually posting numbers showing that it's inconsistent. Right now it just sounds like you're piecing together random eye witnesses, though I haven't looked through the thread completely to read other people's claims.

[9898]

Dear god, having a conversation with you feels like trying to get a a down syndrome child to recite Shakespeare or to say something thought-provoking or useful. Even worse is you actually do speak but everything that comes out is the sheer definition of stupid, but I will actually bite here.

Intel Core i7-2630QM CPU @ 2.00 GHz, 8 CPU ~2.0 GHz
8192MB RAM

Video Card
Nvidia GeForce GTX 460M
4049MB Memory

I don't overclock.

I also do dash now, and experience zero frame drops with people who dash frequently. My computer is not a powerhouse in the slightest, just a regular run-of-the-mill gaming laptop from last generation.

It probably has nothing to do with rig power, seeing as there is such a diverse range of folks who experience no issues. It's probably something completely different. I don't know what it is though, personally. I've also never had to care because I don't have to deal with it.
performance in games is tied to rig power to some degree, sherlock. what about my post was stupid? a great deal of this thread is of a speculative nature i hope you realize. anything over an i3 in theory should pretty much max this game (c2qs really too but i depending on gpu setup/textures and the fsb rate there could be bottlenecks). i guess ill elucidate and just flat out say that it's the game's coding since you didn't catch the part about me saying that people with 3k rigs didn't play it well. it's obviously something to do with client binning and other factors.

[Rev+]

I'm not talking about opinions.

Different people literally experience different affects with each specific weapon. This person might have a horrid time with Marie Nails, this other person might find Marie Nails to be just fine but Twin Kamui to be awful. Some other person might find both to be bad. Others, neither.

You'd be documenting every single weapon and the increment in which it hurts every single variable computer spec (utterly unreasonable), which still wouldn't even be something concrete to go on, because we still don't even know for sure (with concrete evidence) if it's the computer itself that is the problem. Again, if solution flies in the face of people on both sides, then people will just ignore the list because it's not worth the trouble.

You can't rank them in any order of their affect in a way that will apply to everyone, which means there's no point in ranking them at all.

I think it was a bad load that caused me to lag when someone was using Marie Nails in a MPA lol.

My experience with Freezing is very minimal, because i use a proper PC for this game. For me Marie Nails is the first weapon to give me stutter.

120fps on Max settings 1080p
Stable 120 fps on Campship

I would say based on FPS drop Nishiki is the worst about 10-13fps
All class crafted daggers on average for me dropped about 3-6fps
Partizans like Helen Palata dropped me to about 7-11fps

[Alukard]

It's not inconclusive, reading comprehension would assist you here, but I was simply speaking in the form of the devils advocate.

The overall point here is that the real, definitive hypothetical solution for either party flies in the face of other players either way, which makes the contradiction relevant.

Also, it seems pedantic of you to ignore the fact that you don't even have to dash to experience frame drops from other people who are dashing. It's not like dashing is the only thing in this game that requires well-timed inputs in order to execute properly.


Seems like not even you can make sense of your own bullshit. This pisspoor "explanation" is just a premise. You are making up groups and assigning them w/e attribute you want. You even fail to describe how that would explain your own contradiction. There are no such groups and the contradiction is just a portrait of yourself. You have no clue what you are talking about. son.

I barely said how lag affects me, tell me how I ever claimed that lag doesn't cause other problems for other people. Nice attempt to put words in my mouth, son.

[Zipzo]

Who have you met that have shown you actual tests saying that marie nails has no impact while twin reaping is terrible, etc etc.

We don't need to test it for every possible computer spec. You can come up with a generalization from just a few. We would need a lot of different weapons though of course.

e.g., I won't take your post saying that "different people experience different things with no correlation" until you start actually posting numbers showing that it's inconsistent. Right now it just sounds like you're piecing together random eye witnesses, though I haven't looked through the thread completely to read other people's claims.

Lol, if that's your angle, then this whole post could be considered a giant heaping pile of bullshit because it's made up entirely of nothing but claims of this or that weapon causing frame drops, and the varied extremity of the frame drops. You're asking for something not even provided at a base level for the discussion at its initiation.


performance in games is tied to rig power to some degree, sherlock. what about my post was stupid? a great deal of this thread is of a speculative nature i hope you realize. anything over an i3 in theory should pretty much max this game (c2qs really too but i depending on gpu setup/textures and the fsb rate there could be bottlenecks). i guess ill elucidate and just flat out say that it's the game's coding since you didn't catch the part about me saying that people with 3k rigs didn't play it well. it's obviously something to do with client binning and other factors.

Why don't we pretend for a second, as in, cut your wannabe elitist retard gimmick for just a moment, that I understand, at a default level, how to play the game and how to work a computer.

Obviously I think it's a problem with the games coding, otherwise there wouldn't be such a diverse range of folks in this very thread claiming they have no issue (people with both good and bad computers).

Discussing the core reason for why the issue occurs doesn't really lead us to a solution that works for everyone unless it's an inherent-to-your-rig issue. We can only discuss and speculate what triggers the cause in-game, if there's even anything we can do to circumvent it, and if it's reasonable to ask that everyone follow the necessary guidelines to do so.


Seems like not even you can make sense of your own bullshit. This pisspoor "explanation" is just a premise. You are making up groups and assigning them w/e attribute you want. You even fail to describe how that would explain your own contradiction. There are no such groups and the contradiction is just a portrait of yourself. You have no clue what you are talking about. son.

I barely said how lag affects me, tell me how I ever claimed that lag doesn't cause other problems for other people. Nice attempt to put words in my mouth, son.

I'm sorry, so because it's not good enough for you, it's invalid? I never put words in your mouth. I explained why I phrased both, you either take it or shove it.

I couldn't even begin to try because I find it difficult to think on the level of some wannabe elitist scumbag. At any rate, the wonder twins both you and 9898 are now in a topic, and I can already see the ball rolling in to another repeat of what the two of you always tend to do in a topic that originally intended to be helpful.

Anyone with some sense will abandon thread.

Oh and since he thought it was relevant, this here is the guiding light of PSO2 who's knowledge we should be thankful for...I didn't remember exactly the phrasing but it was pretty much near to this...


ill let my twin respond...im gonna grab a cold one and get my dick sucked...

[Chdata]

Lol, if that's your angle, then this whole post could be considered a giant heaping pile of bullshit because it's made up entirely of nothing but claims of this or that weapon causing frame drops, and the varied extremity of the frame drops. You're asking for something not even provided at a base level for the discussion at its initiation.

You're right, I am considering your posts to be "bullshit", but I'm not as privy to swearing like an adolescent about it.

So far Niji and that other guy are the only one's who've posted numbers showing a comparison. Unless they're working together to make up falsified information, I don't see how that's "bullshit". And if it were, enough testing may or may not bring that in to question. I haven't done any testing myself yet to see how much certain things impact what. All I have now is "bio katana/nishiki do have notable impact on my gameplay but I don't know how much it really changes my FPS".

Also I really don't understand your usage of English in that last sentence. I'm asking for something that hasn't been provided yet... yeah... that's why I'm asking for it. Or if you're trying to say that a discussion about weapons causing frame drops doesn't have anything to do with me asking for how much various weapons cause frame drops for people... ...

...?

[Zipzo]

You're right, I am considering your posts to be "bullshit", but I'm not as privy to swearing like an adolescent about it.

So far Niji and that other guy are the only one's who've posted numbers showing a comparison. Unless they're working together to make up falsified information, I don't see how that's "bullshit". And if it were, enough testing may or may not bring that in to question. I haven't done any testing myself yet to see how much certain things impact what. All I have now is "bio katana/nishiki do have notable impact on my gameplay but I don't know how much it really changes my FPS".

Also I really don't understand your usage of English in that last sentence. I'm asking for something that hasn't been provided yet... yeah... that's why I'm asking for it. Or if you're trying to say that a discussion about weapons causing frame drops doesn't have anything to do with me asking for how much various weapons cause frame drops for people... ...

...?

Mis-communication. By "post" I meant the entire thread. I think you knew that though. Also, cursing is not a sign of adolescence, though it is adolescent-ish to label someone at the mere sign of curses.

My point was that you can't invalidate what I'm saying because of a lack of hard numbers when nobody has provided hard numbers. We're all in the same boat, champ.

Oh, and since you seem to love playing this game where we can simply just invalidate peoples posts simply because it isn't good enough for you, I'm going to go ahead and say Niji's post is still not a good way to document this phenomena in a way that would apply to everyone. There are innumerous reasons why his frames might drop within a window of 10-20 (in the overall glamour of 500 FPS).

[Chdata]

I thought you were saying my own post was bullshit, cause it's the post you quoted.

Also you get what I mean by cursing. Immature, doesn't have any bearing on your argument, has the opposite effect of me taking you less and less seriously.

[Zipzo]

I thought you were saying my own post was bullshit, cause it's the post you quoted.

Also you get what I mean by cursing. Immature, doesn't have any bearing on your argument, has the opposite effect of me taking you less and less seriously.

The question there-in is if I'm concerned with your taking it seriously or not.

It's really not difficult to just let curse words be a part of someones speech without letting it affect anything in how you comprehend a thought. Adults curse in the real world. That's just how it is.

In any case, the a-typical over-cursing stereotypical adolescent is nowhere to be seen in the thread, so I really don't see it as constructive to go on a sub-rant about the usage of the world "bullshit" being the sole reason you refuse to read in to any logical argument presented.

[Chdata]

In the real world I don't mind cause it's easy to slip, but people who do it online... I feel like you're managing to not pay attention to your typing at all. It doesn't help that your latest post was confusing to even understand, and that you're showing a lack of understanding of technology.

Also, you're assuming I haven't read your post for signs of logic. I haven't found any, that's why I'm arguing with you. You seem to be dragging out this tangent over cursing instead of addressing the replies I already gave you.

Edit: And really, I take adults who swear/get emotionally angry less seriously too. I can't think of anywhere that that's really acceptable, but I'm a college student and have a job if you want some perspective on the society I'm in where stuff like that doesn't always pass as a 'who cares'. I could just say "grow up" and leave it at that. I just don't like feeling as if I'm arguing with children over something that should be factual to begin with. I mean I understand this forum's userbase is probably teenagers as well, but eh.

When I say 'I don't mind' I mean I don't mind it if it's actually casual or something but in a debate you just sound dum/annoying.

[UnLucky]

Was that video with a full party constantly switching weapons posted in this thread?

Something like that is what we need, but for a variety of weapons.

Get like 10 people each with Twin Kamui, Marie Nails, Nishiki, Bio weapons, and all that stuff. Have them all switch as fast as possible between the weapon in question and a control like barehanded.

They would each record their FPS and note any drops over a set period.

Repeat for each different weapon you intend to test.

[Zipzo]

In the real world I don't mind cause it's easy to slip, but people who do it online... I feel like you're managing to not pay attention to your typing at all. It doesn't help that your latest post was confusing to even understand, and that you're showing a lack of understanding of technology.

Also, you're assuming I haven't read your post for signs of logic. I haven't found any, that's why I'm arguing with you. You seem to be dragging out this tangent over cursing instead of addressing the replies I already gave you.

Edit: And really, I take adults who swear/get emotionally angry less seriously too. I can't think of anywhere that that's really acceptable, but I'm a college student and have a job if you want some perspective on the society I'm in where stuff like that doesn't always pass as a 'who cares'. I could just say "grow up" and leave it at that. I just don't like feeling as if I'm arguing with children over something that should be factual to begin with. I mean I understand this forum's userbase is probably teenagers as well, but eh.

When I say 'I don't mind' I mean I don't mind it if it's actually casual or something but in a debate you just sound dum/annoying.

Honestly, cursing to me is nothing.

Non-sensical tripe like this is what makes me find someone dumb and annoying.

How am I displaying a lack of understanding of technology? Where is any kind of logical reasoning behind a curse word invalidating someones argument?

Just like your melee techer thread "input", you're failing to make any kind of notable progress in making any kind of rational or constructive point (and certainly not on-topic). My latest posts wasn't difficult to understand at all, you just have faulty understanding. If you'd like me to reiterate or rephrase something for you, go ahead and point out what doesn't make sense.

Instead you sit there and bitch about me not making sense like as if it's my fault you don't get it.

It's like you're just talking to talk. Arguing to argue.

Was that video with a full party constantly switching weapons posted in this thread?

Something like that is what we need, but for a variety of weapons.

Get like 10 people each with Twin Kamui, Marie Nails, Nishiki, Bio weapons, and all that stuff. Have them all switch as fast as possible between the weapon in question and a control like barehanded.

They would each record their FPS and note any drops over a set period.

Repeat for each different weapon you intend to test.

At the end of the day you'd likely have different figures from each tester for each weapon...so how exactly can you make a definitive list that anyone could reliably go by even after a small task force of 10 or so people have actually managed to do something like this?

[Alukard]

At the end of the day you'd likely have different figures from each tester for each weapon...so how exactly can you make a definitive list that anyone could reliably go by even after a small task force of 10 or so people have actually managed to do something like this?

I think you never understood what data, information and knowledge is. Go visit a class for a 101 guide on how information works in this world.

[ChinaSue]

Was that video with a full party constantly switching weapons posted in this thread?

Something like that is what we need, but for a variety of weapons.

Get like 10 people each with Twin Kamui, Marie Nails, Nishiki, Bio weapons, and all that stuff. Have them all switch as fast as possible between the weapon in question and a control like barehanded.

They would each record their FPS and note any drops over a set period.

Repeat for each different weapon you intend to test.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23047524

Is this the one you are talking about?

[Alukard]

Thanks, i know I play bb so fast, it seems like we are hacking. In fact, we cleared ma4c ep4 faster than chriskalin did with his trainers. good thing we have vids to prove our legitimacy.

[Zipzo]

Thanks, i know I play bb so fast, it seems like we are hacking. In fact, we cleared ma4c ep4 faster than chriskalin did with his trainers. good thing we have vids to prove our legitimacy.

Yeah dude, after I watch those we can go to Chads house, crack some colds ones and play Gamecube.

[Alukard]

Yeah dude, after I watch those we can go to Chads house, crack some colds ones and play Gamecube.

yeah, maybe you can finally teach me how to use dark flow

[tt3_get_on_ts]

The question there-in is if I'm concerned with your taking it seriously or not.

It's really not difficult to just let curse words be a part of someones speech without letting it affect anything in how you comprehend a thought. Adults curse in the real world. That's just how it is.

In any case, the a-typical over-cursing stereotypical adolescent is nowhere to be seen in the thread, so I really don't see it as constructive to go on a sub-rant about the usage of the world "bullshit" being the sole reason you refuse to read in to any logical argument presented.

accusing someone of cheating out of the blue is pretty logical huehuehuehue

so adult like

[9898]

Naw bro, just use TJ Sword with infinite special and Red Ring.

I mean you seem to like using hacked items, completely illegitimizing anything you do in the game anyway.

Let's take this to the school yard and punch each other, bruh.

1/10

wheres the infinite tjs spec!!!! i wanna seeee!!! there are a few videos with legitimate (private server wise) red rings though!

[Alukard]

1/10

wheres the infinite tjs spec!!!! i wanna seeee!!! there are a few videos with legitimate (private server wise) red rings though!

who cares w/e he has to say about it. he is an expert of nothing and all he does is drag the conversations down to accusations. This is not the first thread that he got locked.

[Chdata]

Honestly, cursing to me is nothing.

Non-sensical tripe like this is what makes me find someone dumb and annoying.

How am I displaying a lack of understanding of technology? Where is any kind of logical reasoning behind a curse word invalidating someones argument?

Just like your melee techer thread "input", you're failing to make any kind of notable progress in making any kind of rational or constructive point (and certainly not on-topic). My latest posts wasn't difficult to understand at all, you just have faulty understanding. If you'd like me to reiterate or rephrase something for you, go ahead and point out what doesn't make sense.

Instead you sit there and bitch about me not making sense like as if it's my fault you don't get it.

It's like you're just talking to talk. Arguing to argue.

At the end of the day you'd likely have different figures from each tester for each weapon...so how exactly can you make a definitive list that anyone could reliably go by even after a small task force of 10 or so people have actually managed to do something like this?

I never said cursing invalidates your argument, you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying it doesn't help your argument. Not to mention, it is actually recognized as a logical fallacy anyway, not that using any form of cursing anywhere always means your argument is invalid. There's something called ethos as well.

Here's a list of of fallacies if you like: http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm

That techer thread, I was pretty sleep deprived when I posted that and already explained that I did mix up some things. I haven't actually bothered to look at the latest replies yet because of the aforementioned sleep deprivation.

Also, I don't understand how me talking about weapons causing frame drops is not on-topic with a thread titled "List of weapons that cause frame drops".

I already mentioned that there was only one sentence I couldn't understand (and later said that your word is kinda confusing). I already did point it out and you didn't rephrase it. Maybe you're the one lacking reading comprehension here.

As much as you can accuse me of not understanding you, what if you actually were just being confusing. I mean, I could really nitpick and look at the grammar I just quoted but that's a small typo and not as completely mixed up as some other stuff.

You displayed a lack of technical understanding here:



Memory leaks are a thing. I remember TERA had an awful memory leak, where if the client was open for long enough, opening menus/bags/anything to do with the interface would cause a massive freeze and it only got worse and worse the longer it was open. Absolutely horrible. This honestly is a possible candidate for what's going on here, but so are many other things and different PCs have different capabilities for handling that sort of issue.

As a personal add, I play on a previous generation gaming laptop, and I experience zero slowdown, no matter who is using what.

Those with issues should explore their own issues instead of trying to place blame on someone else for simply playing the game.

I mentioned memory leaks and you thought it actually had something to do with weapons causing lag. I already explained why that's not necessarily true.

You say your lackluster computer doesn't experience issues, and give off this tone as if you don't care if it hurts other people's performance. (Even though you did mention them).

You assume based off of little actually in-game tested evidence that there is absolutely no good correlation between what weapons cause what amount of impact based on what you think you know about computers and in-game rendering.

This kind of stuff is what really hurts what you're saying anyway.

Just so people know, it's possible that there's no problem with the actual code being used to load graphics, and that it could just be something faulty with the design of the graphics themselves. Infact, if you pay attention to the already shown fact that some weapons cause less lag than other weapons, you can already tell it's very likely that it's a graphical issue.

[Chdata]

Was that video with a full party constantly switching weapons posted in this thread?

Something like that is what we need, but for a variety of weapons.

Get like 10 people each with Twin Kamui, Marie Nails, Nishiki, Bio weapons, and all that stuff. Have them all switch as fast as possible between the weapon in question and a control like barehanded.

They would each record their FPS and note any drops over a set period.

Repeat for each different weapon you intend to test.


This. Just shut the baseless arguing and start putting together groups of people for testing.

Does anyone else happen to have a bio katana?




At the end of the day you'd likely have different figures from each tester for each weapon...so how exactly can you make a definitive list that anyone could reliably go by even after a small task force of 10 or so people have actually managed to do something like this?

This is what I've been arguing against. The way you're assuming what the results will be of a test that hasn't even been done yet. Are you psychic or something? This kind of thing is what's really annoying. You have no actual factual basis for your argument assumptions at all so far.

[Triple_S]

Just so people know, it's possible that there's no problem with the actual code being used to load graphics, and that it could just be something faulty with the design of the graphics themselves. Infact, if you pay attention to the already shown fact that some weapons cause less lag than other weapons, you can already tell it's very likely that it's a graphical issue.
Personally, I think it's a combination of both poor loading/memory allocation and just bad optimization. There's evidence of both in the game, so...

[Chdata]

Personally, I think it's a combination of both poor loading/memory allocation and just bad optimization. There's evidence of both in the game, so...

Yeah, that's likely as well. I mention graphics cause I happen to run TF2 servers with custom models and I've seen people make messed up ones that F up the server and anyone who connects.

On my normal servers, it usually takes two days for memory leaks to accumulate enough for me to need to restart them for performance issues. The map itself has to be refreshed constantly (map changes load a new world/etc which takes care of that and happen every 40 minutes).

[9898]

I never said cursing invalidates your argument, you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying it doesn't help your argument. Not to mention, it is actually recognized as a logical fallacy anyway, not that using any form of cursing anywhere always means your argument is invalid. There's something called ethos as well.

Here's a list of of fallacies if you like: http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm

That techer thread, I was pretty sleep deprived when I posted that and already explained that I did mix up some things. I haven't actually bothered to look at the latest replies yet because of the aforementioned sleep deprivation.

Also, I don't understand how me talking about weapons causing frame drops is not on-topic with a thread titled "List of weapons that cause frame drops".

I already mentioned that there was only one sentence I couldn't understand (and later said that your word is kinda confusing). I already did point it out and you didn't rephrase it. Maybe you're the one lacking reading comprehension here.

As much as you can accuse me of not understanding you, what if you actually were just being confusing. I mean, I could really nitpick and look at the grammar I just quoted but that's a small typo and not as completely mixed up as some other stuff.

You displayed a lack of technical understanding here:



I mentioned memory leaks and you thought it actually had something to do with weapons causing lag. I already explained why that's not necessarily true.

You say your lackluster computer doesn't experience issues, and give off this tone as if you don't care if it hurts other people's performance. (Even though you did mention them).

You assume based off of little actually in-game tested evidence that there is absolutely no good correlation between what weapons cause what amount of impact based on what you think you know about computers and in-game rendering.

This kind of stuff is what really hurts what you're saying anyway.

Just so people know, it's possible that there's no problem with the actual code being used to load graphics, and that it could just be something faulty with the design of the graphics themselves. Infact, if you pay attention to the already shown fact that some weapons cause less lag than other weapons, you can already tell it's very likely that it's a graphical issue.
zipzo is really too dumb to get this, you can't really respond too seriously and expect them to take anything away from the post

do we actually have concrete evidence of what game engine pso2 runs on, that would be a start tbh in figuring out how it allocates memory and what/if are the limitations for things like textures etc.

[Zipzo]

I never said cursing invalidates your argument, you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying it doesn't help your argument. Not to mention, it is actually recognized as a logical fallacy anyway, not that using any form of cursing anywhere always means your argument is invalid. There's something called ethos as well.

Jesus, are you trying to be obtuse?

I'm not putting words in your mouth at all. I simply constructed a sentence. Why is it that you have to have said it for me to simply make a point that's relevant? No where in what I said did I say you said anything.


Here's a list of of fallacies if you like: http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm

Here's a picture of a banana if you like: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Banana-Single.jpg/250px-Banana-Single.jpg It's almost as relevant as your link.


Also, I don't understand how me talking about weapons causing frame drops is not on-topic with a thread titled "List of weapons that cause frame drops".

I already mentioned that there was only one sentence I couldn't understand (and later said that your word is kinda confusing). I already did point it out and you didn't rephrase it. Maybe you're the one lacking reading comprehension here.

As much as you can accuse me of not understanding you, what if you actually were just being confusing. I mean, I could really nitpick and look at the grammar I just quoted but that's a small typo and not as completely mixed up as some other stuff.

You're not addressing the actual issue, you're just making wide, vague accusations of a lack of understanding because you disagree. How am I not understanding? I am making a simple observation : some people experience slow down. Some do not. This is a fact. It is observed by the very posts in this very thread stating either "I experience slowdown" or "I do not experience slowdown at all".

The only people who do things like this are those who don't understand it themselves but just want something to bicker over with a person.


You displayed a lack of technical understanding here:

I mentioned memory leaks and you thought it actually had something to do with weapons causing lag. I already explained why that's not necessarily true.

I'm sorry, but you are not nor do you possess definitive proof that a memory leak could not possibly be the cause of frame drops. Right now, nobody has definitive proof of anything, so accusing anyone of lacking understanding of something because you disagree with it just makes you the foolish one.

I said memory leaks could be a possible candidate, simply because of the nature of the effect of a memory leak, I didn't say it that it was definitively a memory leak.


You say your lackluster computer doesn't experience issues, and give off this tone as if you don't care if it hurts other people's performance. (Even though you did mention them).

No, I do care, I just question the validity of a singular, all-encompassing list that would be viable for everyone to go off of because of the difference in experiences from user to user. That was your idea and I think it's a fruitless one.


You assume based off of little actually in-game tested evidence that there is absolutely no good correlation between what weapons cause what amount of impact based on what you think you know about computers and in-game rendering.

What? How do you know what I assume? Are you just making this shit up as you go?

I fully understand and see the logic in finding a correlation between poor performance due to switching and the weapons/rig of the person in question, what you can't seem to understand is that it's not the same for everyone, so a singular list cannot be viable for everyone.


This kind of stuff is what really hurts what you're saying anyway.

Just so people know, it's possible that there's no problem with the actual code being used to load graphics, and that it could just be something faulty with the design of the graphics themselves. Infact, if you pay attention to the already shown fact that some weapons cause less lag than other weapons, you can already tell it's very likely that it's a graphical issue.

You're guessing out of your ass like anyone else what the issue is, as seen here. The only way this issue goes away is something SEGA does to fix it. Until then all we can do is mull about on which Twin Daggers are the most guilty, and if it's worth actually getting any number of people to stop using them.

The people who experience no lag will likely continue to use the weapons they like to use, seeing frame drop issues as simply a technical issue on your end (as in, sourced from that of the game in tandem with your rig) and see no point in changing how they play.

People who experience lag will black list those people and never play with them anyway. Solution reached.


Personally, I think it's a combination of both poor loading/memory allocation and just bad optimization. There's evidence of both in the game, so...

So then I task you with a question...what about the folks who do not experience slow down even when using a medium grade rig?

[9898]

So then I task you with a question...what about the folks who do not experience slow down even when using a medium grade rig?
do you even understand what triple s suggested? this would hit anyone on ANY RIG.

[UnLucky]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23047524

Is this the one you are talking about?
That's the one.

It does a really good job of showcasing that there is an issue, but it doesn't really document how bad the effect is.

If we can find a correlation between specific weapons and the severity of the frame drop, consistent across multiple players with varying setups and client instances, we'd have a lot more than simple guesswork.

But if it really does turn out that the same specs with the same client has disproportionate degradation, we'd know for sure that the various weapons cannot be ranked. Or at least, there's less reason to.

Since there are various factors involved, we need structured testing. Because one person with a particularly bad client that day could run into the only Marie Nails user they've seen all week and have just the worst delay they've ever seen. Then the next day, with a good client state, they join a party where everyone is using Nishiki but have no problem whatsoever.

Yet what I want to know is if in that one instance of using the Marie Nails it was a Nishiki instead, would the problem have been even worse? Or would that fix it? And then the next day if every single person had Marie Nails, would they still not notice anything? As in, no matter what specs you have, no matter how many times you've launched the client, do certain weapons always have more impact than others?

[Zipzo]

do you even understand what triple s suggested? this would hit anyone on ANY RIG.

Yes! We are almost there 9898, you can do it!

Now tell me...if this is a problem that is utterly un-related to your rig...................

What is the point of crafting a list with varying computer rig setups and their according frame drop variances?

Furthermore...why does one person have problems and the other does not? Obviously it doesn't affect every rig, you moron.

[9898]

Yes! We are almost there 9898, you can do it!

Now tell me...if this is a problem that is utterly un-related to your rig...................

What is the point of crafting a list with varying computer rig setups and their according frame drop variances?

Furthermore...why does one person have problems and the other does not? Obviously it doesn't affect every rig, you moron.
i have multiple setups, some have issues and some don't. in fact even on the same system it's not consistent.

if i run my windows 8 domu instead of my win7 pro domu one i have more stutters even though i'm using THE EXACT SAME DRIVERS for both.
so no this problem is not unrelated to me... and yes... that is two different results on the exact same pc.

on my older i3 setup i don't get stutters, for the record.

more information is always good, saying "WE SHOULDNT COLLECT INFORMATION" is always a bad idea and doesn't accomplish anything or set forth a mentality that will look for solutions or possibly find something of worth, even in a dead end.



how about you directly address the points chdata made? you gave a lot of non-answers.

[Zipzo]

i have multiple setups, some have issues and some don't. in fact even on the same system it's not consistent.

if i run my windows 8 domu instead of my win7 pro domu one i have more stutters even though i'm using THE EXACT SAME DRIVERS for both.
so no this problem is not unrelated to me... and yes... that is two different results on the exact same pc.

on my older i3 setup i don't get stutters, for the record.

more information is always good, saying "WE SHOULDNT COLLECT INFORMATION" is always a bad idea and doesn't accomplish anything or set forth a mentality that will look for solutions or possibly find something of worth, even in a dead end.



how about you directly address the points chdata made? you gave a lot of non-answers.

I did address Chdata's points, if there's any specifically you think I missed, go ahead and mention them, but I feel like an entire post dedicated to quote pyramiding his words is quite specific.

Um, I'm not against the collection of data, but I will say when I think that certain data is irrelevant. For example, no matter what the list looks like, someone who experiences zero issues will ignore it anyway. At that point, what was the purpose of the list? To deter that exact person from using any of those weapons?

The ultimate goal should be finding out why the problem even exists in the first place, not which weapons do it more or do it less...because that is something that differs from user to user so it's not a precise value that can be documented and 100% viable to for everyone.

[Chdata]

Jesus, are you trying to be obtuse?

I'm not putting words in your mouth at all. I simply constructed a sentence. Why is it that you have to have said it for me to simply make a point that's relevant? No where in what I said did I say you said anything.

http://i.imgur.com/I997hDc.png


Here's a picture of a banana if you like: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Banana-Single.jpg/250px-Banana-Single.jpg It's almost as relevant as your link.

http://i.imgur.com/I997hDc.png

Not necessarily relevant to the thread but was relevant to that.


You're not addressing the actual issue, you're just making wide, vague accusations of a lack of understanding because you disagree. How am I not understanding? I am making a simple observation : some people experience slow down. Some do not. This is a fact. It is observed by the very posts in this very thread stating either "I experience slowdown" or "I do not experience slowdown at all".

The only people who do things like this are those who don't understand it themselves but just want something to bicker over with a person.

You seem to have changed your position from "Some people experience slowdown with no clear correlation" (e.g., someone can see marie nails as slow but twin reaping not; whereas someone else can see twin reaping slowdown but none from marie nails) which you had no factual evidence of.

I am addressing the actual issue by saying to actually go test stuff before you make assumptions of how things are.


I'm sorry, but you are not nor do you possess definitive proof that a memory leak could not possibly be the cause of frame drops. Right now, nobody has definitive proof of anything, so accusing anyone of lacking understanding of something because you disagree with it just makes you the foolish one.

I said memory leaks could be a possible candidate, simply because of the nature of the effect of a memory leak, I didn't say it that it was definitively a memory leak.

That's actually testable... except PSO2 hides itself from Task Manager.


No, I do care, I just question the validity of a singular, all-encompassing list that would be viable for everyone to go off of because of the difference in experiences from user to user. That was your idea and I think it's a fruitless one.

You're misquoting me. My idea has been to test it more. Please at least bother to read what you're replying to.


What? How do you know what I assume? Are you just making this shit up as you go?

I fully understand and see the logic in finding a correlation between poor performance due to switching and the weapons/rig of the person in question, what you can't seem to understand is that it's not the same for everyone, so a singular list cannot be viable for everyone.

Obviously it's not the same for everyone. What you can't seem to understand is that there's probably still a correlation (e.g., nishiki causes more frame drop than anything else for everyone, even if one person experiences little to no frame drop and another person experiences a lot). Just because people experience different impacts doesn't mean they can't be ranked in this way. You're the one who replied to Unlucky's proposal for a test saying that it doesn't matter if we do this because you seem to already know the results will be inconclusive.


You're guessing out of your ass like anyone else what the issue is, as seen here. The only way this issue goes away is something SEGA does to fix it. Until then all we can do is mull about on which Twin Daggers are the most guilty, and if it's worth actually getting any number of people to stop using them.

Yes, saying "it's possible" means it's a guess. Duh?

[Zipzo]

You seem to have changed your position from "Some people experience slowdown with no clear correlation" (e.g., someone can see marie nails as slow but twin reaping not; whereas someone else can see twin reaping slowdown but none from marie nails) which you had no factual evidence of.

My position hasn't changed at all, you just might actually be beginning to understand it.


I am addressing the actual issue by saying to actually go test stuff before you make assumptions of how things are.

Uh, derp, people have already tried testing this and yet here we are still floundering over what the hell causes this issue. If it were that easy, we'd all already know the answer. I'm not making any assumptions, just guesses, like you.

It should be obvious that anything stated in a thread with an inconclusive issue that all suggestions are likely, well, inconclusive suggestions.


You're misquoting me. My idea has been to test it more. Please at least bother to read what you're replying to.

Ditto.


Obviously it's not the same for everyone. What you can't seem to understand is that there's probably still a correlation (e.g., nishiki causes more frame drop than anything else for everyone, even if one person experiences little to no frame drop and another person experiences a lot). Just because people experience different impacts doesn't mean they can't be ranked in this way. You're the one who replied to Unlucky's proposal for a test saying that it doesn't matter if we do this because you seem to already know the results will be inconclusive.


Yes, saying "it's possible" means it's a guess. Duh?

What a concept, right? It's funny how you jumped all over me for calling a memory leak a "possible" candidate, and here you are, using the same damn logic to defend your own words. Pick a side, Chdata. Look, I'll quote myself just for emphasis...


This honestly is a possible candidate for what's going on here, but so are many other things and different PCs have different capabilities for handling that sort of issue.

[Chdata]

What a concept, right? It's funny how you jumped all over me for calling a memory leak a "possible" candidate, and here you are, using the same damn logic to defend your own words. Pick a side, Chdata.

There's a difference between using lack of evidence to guess something and asking for better evidence to be brought to the table to validate a guess. That is also different from saying it's worthless to collect data to validate a guess.

Your position is "Some people don't experience lag and some people do; therefore it's worthless to try and find any correlation in what causes lag and we shouldn't do any testing". What if it's only a specific selection of graphic cards that don't lag as much or as often, yet a lot of other builds do have a correlation even if some get impacted less?

As 9898 said, it's generally better to collect data before you make strong statements.

[Zipzo]

There's a difference between using lack of evidence to guess something and asking for better evidence to be brought to the table to validate a guess. That is also different from saying it's worthless to collect data to validate a guess.

Well, my lack of evidence stems from the fact I don't have this issue at all. So technically, I can be a viable statistic here. I am a person who never experiences this issue, thus I am valid form of evidence that those with my (at least with my specific PC) likely do not encounter the issue.

That's pretty clear-cut evidence of something, and worth adding if the goal here is to actually discover the source of the issue.

I've also never said collecting data is worthless, what a stupidly broad accusation of my words. What's important is for you understand the purpose and the ultimate objective of said data, if there's no clear reasoning for said data to exist (as in, it's irrelevant to the issue), it can be deemed a waste of human effort to acquire it because it has absolutely no application.

You want to make a list, ranking weapons in order of what hits your PC more...but for what? So you can say "Damnit Zipzo, you're using the #3 ranked laggy weapon on my list, move down to at least #6 or be kicked"? Personally, if there was a definitive list of weapons that lagged people conclusively, no matter what PC they had, I would avoid using those weapons entirely because I wouldn't want to screw people over. When that list is utterly inconclusive and provides no insight on to who gets hit the most by what...then yes, the list is pointless!

[Chdata]

I've also never said collecting data is worthless, what a stupidly broad accusation of my words. What's important is for you understand the purpose and the ultimate objective of said data, if there's no clear reasoning for said data to exist (as in, it's irrelevant to the issue), it can be deemed a waste of human effort to acquire it because it has absolutely no application.

You want to make a list, ranking weapons in order of what hits your PC more...but for what? So you can say "Damnit Zipzo, you're using the #3 ranked laggy weapon on my list, move down to at least #6 or be kicked"? Personally, if there was a definitive list of weapons that lagged people conclusively, no matter what PC they had, I would avoid using those weapons entirely because I wouldn't want to screw people over. When that list is utterly inconclusive and provides no insight on to who gets hit the most by what...then yes, the list is pointless!

http://i.imgur.com/fCGnFsU.png

Even here you don't seem too sure about it. Saying it's irrelevant == saying it's worthless. You're contradicting yourself. Maybe you didn't say collecting data "in general" is worthless, but you are arguing that this would be worthless based on your clairvoyance.

If a standard can be made and proven, it's very possible that people will start following it. People used to spend all their time breaking Falz's arms until now where that's wasting time for people with alts. It may be also worthwhile to test whether or not weapons that aren't as bad as Nishiki (any other twin dagger) really needs to be avoided or if they're not that bad.

Here you're contradicting yourself again; You just went from assuming that such a list won't change many people's minds about what weapons they use if it doesn't really affect them, to you just conceding you would. And again, we know there's no conclusive list. That's why the aim is to make one. Even if we can prove that it does impact some (a good amount of) people and not everyone, it's worth looking in to.

I don't see why you're so insistent on defending your idea that doing this research won't really help anyone.

[UnLucky]

Please don't inline an image almost 1500px wide. :L

If everyone's list of weapons ranked by amount of frame drops is different, then it might not be very helpful, true.

But we don't know that yet.

[Zipzo]

Even here you don't seem too sure about it. Saying it's irrelevant == saying it's worthless. You're contradicting yourself. Maybe you didn't say collecting data "in general" is worthless, but you are arguing that this would be worthless based on your clairvoyance.

No, those two are not the same thing at all. One is saying it holds no worth period, the other is saying it's irrelevant to the issue. Those are two different things.


If a standard can be made and proven, it's very possible that people will start following it. People used to spend all their time breaking Falz's arms until now where that's wasting time for people with alts. It may be also worthwhile to test whether or not weapons that aren't as bad as Nishiki (any other twin dagger) really needs to be avoided or if they're not that bad.

In my case, none of them are bad. So I apply no standard to anybody. Don't you see how this mucks up the entire basis for your idea?


Here you're contradicting yourself again; You just went from assuming that such a list won't change many people's minds about what weapons they use if it doesn't really affect them, to you just conceding you would. And again, we know there's no conclusive list. That's why the aim is to make one. Even if we can prove that it does impact some (a good amount of) people and not everyone, it's worth looking in to.

I don't see why you're so insistent on defending your idea that doing this research won't really help anyone.

Honestly, I'm done deconstructing your nonsense. I'm not contradicting myself. I made a very clear point, with a very clear reason for that point. You go ahead and get lost in the details all you want, but I'm here to discuss the possible presence of an issue with the game, or the Twin Dagger weapon while you flap on and on about making a list that won't be of any particular use to everyone with a certain computer spec (or whatever you want to blame it on).

Will the list affect who I play with at all? Nope, because none of it affects me in the first place, therefore I've just objectively proved that there is a party of folks who see no positive or negative benefit to your list.

Since there are people that do experience this issue, I'm willing to partake in discussions as to why this issue exists, but I'm not going to support some god damned pitchfork and vile march over the community "ban" of certain weapons (which is what making a list would do) simply because you stuck it on a list that doesn't even necessarily apply in the same way to every player.

[UnLucky]

I still don't see how the existence of a group of players with no perceivable issue negates the usefulness of testing of nor the formation of a list of offending equipment.

If it's discovered that a subset of weapons are indeed consistently worse for those that do suffer heavy frame loss, then anybody who uses one is doing a disservice to the community, regardless (or especially) if it doesn't affect them.

If it truly does not matter what you use and different people experience different levels of slowdown no matter what, then there's nothing anybody could do about it except not play at all until Sega fixes it.

[Uncle_bob]

Who cares what they use as long as they're having fun.







Right? 8º)

[Zipzo]

I still don't see how the existence of a group of players with no perceivable issue negates the usefulness of testing of nor the formation of a list of offending equipment.

If it's discovered that a subset of weapons are indeed consistently worse for those that do suffer heavy frame loss, then anybody who uses one is doing a disservice to the community, regardless (or especially) if it doesn't affect them.

If it truly does not matter what you use and different people experience different levels of slowdown no matter what, then there's nothing anybody could do about it except not play at all until Sega fixes it.

I think that's a bit of a narrow conclusion.

I think ultimately it's on SEGA for the problem existing in the first place...but have you considered that the weapon lag in concern to Twin Daggers...may not even be the majority experience? Maybe it's a minority? In which case, those attacking others who use said weapons aren't really in the right.

Let's say it's a rig specific issue, that's technically (under the first priority of SEGA) secondarily the user's responsibility to fix, not everyone else.

Why should everyone else have to adapt to the needs of one player, instead of the other way around?

At the end of said test, you will have a list of weapons that affect only certain players. You're simply obfuscating the real issue in favor of implementing a black-list-on-sight mentality.

"Oh he uses X weapon, what a douche, BLACK LIST"

It's a given there are some common denominators, otherwise Nishiki wouldn't have such a bad rap, but you understand my point.

Go ahead, do the tests, but as long as you realize that the results will not be even nearly close to absolute in regards to all players...I have to question what the constructive purpose of forming that list in the first place would be. Hell, I like testing to see what will happen if I throw X chemical in to a can of soda, and there's definitely no purpose to that. As long as you recognize the very real, lack of relevance to the issue such a list would have.

[Ratazana]

Who cares what they use as long as they're having fun.







Right? 8º)

Indeed. You all better worker harder through the lag to carry the whole mpa while ark and zitzo hold the group back with their nishiki dashing fi/te.

[UnLucky]

I think that's a bit of a narrow conclusion.

I think ultimately it's on SEGA for the problem existing in the first place...but have you considered that the weapon lag in concern to Twin Daggers...may not even be the majority experience? Maybe it's a minority? In which case, those attacking others who use said weapons aren't really in the right.

Let's say it's a rig specific issue, that's technically (under the first priority of SEGA) secondarily the user's responsibility to fix, not everyone else.

Why should everyone else have to adapt to the needs of one player, instead of the other way around?

At the end of said test, you will have a list of weapons that affect only certain players. You're simply obfuscating the real issue in favor of implementing a black-list-on-sight mentality.

"Oh he uses X weapon, what a douche, BLACK LIST"

It's a given there are some common denominators, otherwise Nishiki wouldn't have such a bad rap, but you understand my point.

Go ahead, do the tests, but as long as you realize that the results will not be even nearly close to absolute in regards to all players...I have to question what the constructive purpose of forming that list in the first place would be. Hell, I like testing to see what will happen if I throw X chemical in to a can of soda, and there's definitely no purpose to that. As long as you recognize the very real, lack of relevance to the issue such a list would have.
Uh huh. "I want to use Nishiki so everyone else should just buy a new computer until they don't have an issue anymore."

or

"There are likely going to be people in this MPA who will be negatively affected by my conscious decision to use this weapon. Maybe they should just leave?"

Completely reasonable, I agree. There's no reason to avoid using something that has no bearing on your own enjoyment of the game.

[Zipzo]

Uh huh. "I want to use Nishiki so everyone else should just buy a new computer until they don't have an issue anymore."

or

"There are likely going to be people in this MPA who will be negatively affected by my conscious decision to use this weapon. Maybe they should just leave?"

Completely reasonable, I agree. There's no reason to avoid using something that has no bearing on your own enjoyment of the game.

What if it's even smaller than that.

If 1 out of every 100 people I play with is negatively affected by a Twin Dagger, is it really something I should be concerned about? Will it affect my game play or performance in activities (even from a team perspective) if I use it anyway even once they are in my MPA?

The real question here is who is the onus really on, the players using the weapons, or the players affected. You might initially say that the player using the weapons have a choice, where as those affected don't really have one. Reasonable, but let's talk about what is being affected here. At a very primarily level, as a person that does get negatively hit by Twin Dagger use, even when in an MPA...approx. how costly is it to the overall performance of the group in the end?

Is that cost effectiveness being lost...worth not using an entire weapon class? Then ultimately, when you contrast that with the mixed views on who experiences it and who doesn't...is it even worth discussing why anything should or shouldn't be used when you have no chance of convincing someone who likes daggers to simply not use daggers?

Research and data, fine and dandy, but let's be real here. Just how much value to a party is being lost here by simply "dealing" with your frame issues when someone else uses a Twin Dagger? Maybe that Twin Dagger player is an incredibly good player and would offer more to the overall performance than you without those frame drops. Maybe those frame drops don't even hinder the players ability to contribute as much as they're able to. Maybe they simply use Twin Daggers for dashing, and are a kick-ass Braver that murders everything on sight. You just can't calculate that stuff mathematically. Furthermore, ~ how much value are you losing as a player being "hindered" by those frame drops.

I don't doubt the existence of some pretty serious frame lag from this issue, but it doesn't strike me as making things unplayable for folks.

That's why charting a list full of weapons people use for legitimate reasons is not really purposeful, because A. Nobody will follow it, and B. It won't even be correct for everyone.

[UnLucky]

The entire point is to figure out which ones are particularly bad so people using them solely to dash with can choose something that won't hurt anybody.

And it only matters on weapon switch, so nobody would notice even if you main the worst one all the time.

There's no cost/benefit analysis here. You either make a bad choice or you get a good weapon instead. And failing that, use a camo (that's not also on "the list").

[Rev+]

Zitzo needs to take his meds.

I'll use nishiki and twin reapz in his games to see if he will lag or not :)

I don't care if it lags you zitzo because u don't contribute to the party anyway.

I will blacklist you once im done sodomizing ur fps little boy.

Btw kids stop falling for zipzo's trolling lol.
It's so obvious its sickening.....
Past 20 posts have been contradictions etc....
(Maybe Im giving him too much credit)

[Zipzo]

Zitzo needs to take his meds.

I'll use nishiki and twin reapz in his games to see if he will lag or not :)

I don't care if it lags you zitzo because u don't contribute to the party anyway.

I will blacklist you once im done sodomizing ur fps little boy.

Btw kids stop falling for zipzo's trolling lol.
It's so obvious its sickening.....
Past 20 posts have been contradictions etc....
(Maybe Im giving him too much credit)

I welcome you to try but don't get your hopes up.

I'm not sure if you're expecting me to be devastated or not that I would never get to play with you.

[btw-Niji]

I thought I told you to go back to B20, Zitzo.

[infiniteeverlasting]

Holy shit this thread.

Back on topic tho, is nightmare blood bad? Should I stop using it? :/

[btw-Niji]

No, nightmare blood is fine.

When I feel like it, I'll get a good client and dump some numbers in this thread. Maybe later today/tomorrow.

edit: for now, I'll repost this:

Best client on my system-
campship @flat 500 FPS
nonrare dagger 500->493~493.5
marie nails 500->490
nishiki 500->484
bio wep 500->484~484.5
Twin reaping 500->486

[btw-Niji]

Oh yeah, forgot to follow up on my 1st post in this thread.

Heart of Naberious is heavy on FPS. It's about the same as Nishiki.

[isCasted]

Who cares what they use as long as they're having fun.







Right? 8º)

Let them have fun breaking their keyboards while my brain hurts because of stutter. For me it isn't even as much about missing JA or stuff like that - lag interrupts my gameplay flow, and if I'm trying to concentrate on the game it's like biting my vertex.

[infiniteeverlasting]

I play on a dell Inspiron that lags like hell, I'm used to it:-?

[9898]

What if it's even smaller than that.

If 1 out of every 100 people I play with is negatively affected by a Twin Dagger, is it really something I should be concerned about? Will it affect my game play or performance in activities (even from a team perspective) if I use it anyway even once they are in my MPA?

The real question here is who is the onus really on, the players using the weapons, or the players affected. You might initially say that the player using the weapons have a choice, where as those affected don't really have one. Reasonable, but let's talk about what is being affected here. At a very primarily level, as a person that does get negatively hit by Twin Dagger use, even when in an MPA...approx. how costly is it to the overall performance of the group in the end?

Is that cost effectiveness being lost...worth not using an entire weapon class? Then ultimately, when you contrast that with the mixed views on who experiences it and who doesn't...is it even worth discussing why anything should or shouldn't be used when you have no chance of convincing someone who likes daggers to simply not use daggers?

Research and data, fine and dandy, but let's be real here. Just how much value to a party is being lost here by simply "dealing" with your frame issues when someone else uses a Twin Dagger? Maybe that Twin Dagger player is an incredibly good player and would offer more to the overall performance than you without those frame drops. Maybe those frame drops don't even hinder the players ability to contribute as much as they're able to. Maybe they simply use Twin Daggers for dashing, and are a kick-ass Braver that murders everything on sight. You just can't calculate that stuff mathematically. Furthermore, ~ how much value are you losing as a player being "hindered" by those frame drops.

I don't doubt the existence of some pretty serious frame lag from this issue, but it doesn't strike me as making things unplayable for folks.

That's why charting a list full of weapons people use for legitimate reasons is not really purposeful, because A. Nobody will follow it, and B. It won't even be correct for everyone.
actually anything in a video game by virtue of being a video game is deterministic and can be calculated mathematically. there is always limited entropy to any computer simulation, period. in fact, calculating how much time lost over a run in frames is arithmetic. i don't see how losing x frames which is a fraction of a second is incalculable, or something as simple as weighing how much time is gained/lost through a player's poor choice of not lacing vs ohkoing a spawn w/ a pa (it's a net loss by default since it's suboptimal).

frame drops are a hinderence by definition and as such hinder performance. whether you are skilled enough to attest to the finer points of this or not: you cannot argue that losing fps is neutral or a good thing for any player. i don't need to go over all of the possible situations where slowdown could get you killed, fucked over or somehow put into the red. this is a real problem to all players, there's no two ways about this.

what's the point of a wiki in your opinion then? the info is there, no one is going to use it to min max, right? there are no objective truths as you profess?

[pkemr4]

>all these toasters

[UnLucky]

all these nonspecific builds with varying amounts of frame drops regardless of raw specs

[btw-Niji]

>all these toasters
this isn't 4chan mr. pokemon4

[UMVC3_Wolverine]

>all these toasters

Most people in B20 play on toasters.

Everytime I run TA's there I always load like 8 seconds before everyone else hahaha.

They must be on a single core pentimum.

By the time they load in Nab1 I already pressed both switches lol.

[Alukard]

Most people in B20 play on toasters.

Everytime I run TA's there I always load like 8 seconds before everyone else hahaha.

They must be on a single core pentimum.

By the time they load in Nab1 I already pressed both switches lol.

loading time is also a matter of ping. 8s is far too much though.

[UMVC3_Wolverine]

loading time is also a matter of ping. 8s is far too much though.

Loading is mostly based on your hardware.

Even when I do my VH TA's in B27 with JP's I usually load just as fast as them or a couple seconds before them.

Further proving that its hardware related since I mean they are in Japan with a MUCH better ping than me yet I still load faster? =P

[Alukard]

Loading is mostly based on your hardware.

Even when I do my VH TA's in B27 with JP's I usually load just as fast as them or a couple seconds before them.

Further proving that its hardware related since I mean they are in Japan with a MUCH better ping than me yet I still load faster? =P

obviously, as in every other game, the hardware is the main reason for slow loading times, that's why I said "its also a matter of ping". Ping is just another factor that slows you down.

[UnLucky]

I always get way slower load times on my first map load of the day, but after that I'm one of the first people out of the ship and ready to go.

[Tivor]

I'm kinda new to the forum. So, hello to you all.

I'd like to ask, is that pink heart weapon cammo and the purple branch ones for twin daggers ok? I have them both, and I'm using them over marie nails.

Thanks for the help.

[Z-0]

I hear the Pink Heart Camo drops frames, but the purple branch is fine.
Optimally, the Gemini camo is the best, though.

[Tivor]

Thank you, I'll stay with the branches, then. I don't like the looks of the gemini one. The twins are kinda weird shaped.

[Rev+]

I hear the Pink Heart Camo drops frames, but the purple branch is fine.
Optimally, the Gemini camo is the best, though.

Pink Heart Camo lags for sure.

[Tivor]

What's then the status of Sacrifice Darker (サクリファイス・ダーカー)? Is it lag heavy also? I was thinking of investing into one instead of the Bio (I'll use my stones for the TMG actually).