Critical worth to get now ?

[hoangsea]

the mechanic still the same but many skill which gives flat crit rate are avalable such as

gu/hu
zero range critical + fury critical = 70% crit rate at close range

fi/te
critical strike + brave critical + shiftta critical = 50% crit rate
critical strike + wise critical + shiftta critical = 55% crit rate

that 's just the flat from skill
there are still more crit rate that i don't know how to calculate from base (or adding from MAG) DEX yet

[Silver Crow]

Ignore crit there is always something better to take.

Edit: I've made a detailed response below with the exact maths, turns out Fighters Critical Mastery and Gunners Zero Range critical are actually worth it. Everything else is still bad though.

::Summary:: (minimum damage increase)
Fighters Crit Mastery: 1% per point (excellent)
Gunners Zero Range crit: 1% per point (excellent)
Wise Stance Crit: 0.25% per point (abysmal)
Brave/Fury/Average/Weak Critical: 0.2% (disgusting)
Shifta Critical: 0.1667% per point (avoid like the plague)

With Fighter Skill:
Wise Stance Critical: 0.625% per point (significant increase, puts it on par with Fury Up 2 [15points for 10% damage]
Brave/Fury/Average/Weak: 0.5% per point (bad/meh)
Shifta Critical: 0.4167% (still eww)

[final_attack]

I dunno about FiTe ..... But for GuHu, it'll depends on your equipment too, I guess.

Using crafted tmg (should the rng hates you the most, and made you doesn't have *10 or *11), will make use of critical build to it's fullest at melee range.

If you're using rare weapon (non-crafted), it'll be less useful. Though personally, I found critical build fun ...... that amount of blue numbers ^^; The damage difference is kinda minimal, too, unless you're aiming for maximum damage available ......

Be warned though, ZRC only take effect at melee range, so, for high-speed bosses that run around a lot, it won't help much.

From what I've tried (using ShowTime + HighTime buff, headshot on Fang, and full gear point-blank Messiah Time),
ZRC dealt 9439 (can be lower) - 9770 -> Mostly 9770 due to point-black range
R-Atk dealt 9713 (Can be lower) - 9975.

[XrosBlader821]

Outside of Fighter Crits are pretty much useless.
Crafted Equipment is also meh since the recipes get weaker, there is less recipes for higher * weapons and hidden bonuses will get overwritten.

[btw-Niji]

Ignore crit there is always something better to take.
Thread should have ended here.

[Vetur]

Yeah, considering you could be spending SP on things that boost your overall damage or have utility, I wouldn't spend on crits, especially with how low they increase it. :(

Maybe as a "for fun" character, or if you have money for extra skill trees and wanna experiment.

[Stormwalker]

I can see some value in taking some crit on a FI/HU if you aren't interested in Chase Advance. It only costs 5 SP to finish maxing out Fury Crit in your HU tree since you'll already have 5 points of it (assuming you have a dedicated subclass-only tree as I do), and if you're not interested in Chase it's not hard to put 5 points in Critical Strike for the damage bonus.

That's about the only use I see for it, and I wouldn't invest any deeper in it than that.

[Silver Crow]

The Fighters skill and Gunners is definitely worth the points, I'll leave the maths below explaining why.

Credits to Outer Haven: http://ohpso2.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Formula

With a Ten star+ weapon 25% of it's attack is added as dexterity (hidden statistic). The reason why everyone is so scared to give a solid figure is because they try to take into account Dex, when they simply should assume damage variance is 90% (the minimum variance) when calculating crit, since then it tells you the MINIMUM damage you will get from increasing crit percentage. Underestimating is more accurate.

So critting 100% of the time is a pathetic 10% damage increase. Investing 10 points into Fury Critical for example gives you 20% increased chance to crit. Which means a 2% damage increase (that's 0.2% per point, or 5 points for 1% damage to put it in perspective).

Okay so now let's add Fighters Critical Strike mastery to the mix. At 5 point you get a 15+10% damage increase (taking into account minimum variance) if you was to crit 100% of the time. So for Fury Critical again, that's a 5% damage increase for 10 point which means 0.5% per point. Not as horrendous, still really bad.

Now let's see how much damage Critical Strike mastery provides on it's own: 20% crit (+5% passive) * 1.25 = 5% damage increase, that's 1% per point making it definitely worth while without even having to bother with further crit. But let's say you also maxed Fury Critical, that's a 3% damage increase it would have never had.

So the Crit mastery gives you a MINIMUM of 1% damage per point, and the potential to get higher when you max Fury Critical on Hu side.

As for Gunners skill, it's also worth it point for point it gives a minimum of 2% damage increase for the first point, then 1% per point to a maximum of 5% increase.

Conclusion, the only Crit skills worth the points are Fighters Crit Mastery and Gunners Zero Range Crit

P.S. these are all absolute MINIMUM damage increases, against bosses (they have higher dex) crit will actually scale upwards providing you with up to a 50% increase to the values I stated. All the more reason to get the Fighter and Gunner skill

edit: turns out rare weapons set variance to 90%, meaning everything I said was minimum is actually maximum damage according to gigawuts reference to Sakai stating that and in game testing. ugh crit is horrible still I guess

[gigawuts]

The Fighters skill and Gunners is definitely worth the points, I'll leave the maths below explaining why.

Credits to Outer Haven: http://ohpso2.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Formula

With a Ten star+ weapon 25% of it's attack is added as dexterity (hidden statistic). The reason why everyone is so scared to give a solid figure is because they try to take into account Dex, when they simply should assume damage variance is 90% (the minimum variance) when calculating crit, since then it tells you the MINIMUM damage you will get from increasing crit percentage. Underestimating is more accurate.

So critting 100% of the time is a pathetic 10% damage increase. Investing 10 points into Fury Critical for example gives you 20% increased chance to crit. Which means a 2% damage increase (that's 0.2% per point, or 5 points for 1% damage to put it in perspective).

Okay so now let's add Fighters Critical Strike mastery to the mix. At 5 point you get a 25% damage increase (taking into account minimum variance) if you was to crit 100% of the time. So for Fury Critical again, that's a 5% damage increase for 10 point which means 0.5% per point. Not as horrendous, still really bad.

Now let's see how much damage Critical Strike mastery provides on it's own: 20% crit (+5% passive) * 25% = 5% damage increase, that's 1% per point making it definitely worth while without even having to bother with further crit. But let's say you also maxed Fury Critical, that's a 3% damage increase it would have never had.

So the Crit mastery gives you a MINIMUM of 1% damage per point, and the potential to get higher when you max Fury Critical on Hu side.

As for Gunners skill, it's also worth it point for point it gives a minimum of 2% damage increase for the first point, then 1% per point to a maximum of 5% increase.

Conclusion, the only Crit skills worth the points are Fighters Crit Mastery and Gunners Zero Range Crit

P.S. these are all absolute MINIMUM damage increases, against bosses (they have higher dex) crit will actually scale upwards providing you with up to a 50% increase to the values I stated. All the more reason to get the Fighter and Gunner skill

This is wrong. All of this is wrong.

It has been known for a while now that rare weapons do not give a dex bonus. They give a static minimum damage value. A rare weapon ignores dexterity completely, and instead sets minimum damage at 90% of its own atk values. That is, same as maximum minus 10% of its own atk. This is confirmed by Sakai on his blog some time ago, and observed as correct with ingame testing. (edit: This is obviously removed when you craft the weapon)

Due to weapons making up roughly half of a player's atk stats that is frequently estimated as 95%. As our weapons become stronger and the cap is slowly raised this becomes less accurate, but a more accurate figure would only be off by a few percent so that's still typically accepted as true enough to work with.

Because of this their damage variance is exceptionally small regardless of your or the enemy's dexterity, making crits mediocre at best. I've already done the work on the utility of Critical Strike and compared it against a common build:


Numbers with a few basic builds:
http://puu.sh/7TnUi.png
Builds (5 fighter sp reserved for Critical Strike):
Crit Strike & HU Mult Skills: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06dAbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0lbk IqBGWsBdqInfJiGA000006ebHoJbIbA2kBfGDIo0000ib00000 0lb000009b000000lb0000000Ib000008
Crit Strike & HU Fury Crit: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06dAbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0lbk IqBGVaBdqInfCnfGA000006ebHoGBbowSkBeAGDIo0000ib000 000lb000009b000000lb0000000Ib000008
CS, HU Mult, Chase: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?06dAbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIkbnIk0lbk IqBGWsBdqInfJiGA000006ebHoGBbowSkBeAGDIo0000ib0000 00lb000009b000000lb0000000Ib000008

So yeah, don't go all in with crits until that critical damage bonus is more than 1.15x. The Crit Strike HU Mult and Crit Strike HU Fury Crit build damage won't break even until Critical Strike's bonus is 1.4x, which is actually one of the first numbers I spat out as saying they should have used. They never will of course, but hey.
As you can see, it does indeed raise your damage - but so does SATK Up. This skill is only viable as a result of having no better alternatives for bossing. We're talking about a class with so few decent options that +200 static satk when below 50% PP is considered good. Any time Chase is in effect it wipes the floor with Critical Strike with a mere 5 sp investment. Take that to 10 sp and guffaw heartily.

For christ's sake, Critical Strike is such a weak skill that investing into Fury Critical 6->10, which is 5 SP for +13% critrate (which is actually .6/.47=28% more crits), at the expense of 1% damage skills totaling 5% damage to everything is actually worse.

Oh, and Critical Strike gives a 15% damage bonus, not a 25% damage bonus. Also, crit rate increases are additive.

[Silver Crow]

This is wrong. All of this is wrong.

It has been known for a while now that rare weapons do not give a dex bonus. They give a static minimum damage value. A rare weapon ignores dexterity completely, and instead sets minimum damage at 90% of its own atk values. That is, same as maximum minus 10% of its own atk. This is confirmed by Sakai on his blog some time ago, and observed as correct with ingame testing. (edit: This is obviously removed when you craft the weapon)

Due to weapons making up roughly half of a player's atk stats that is frequently estimated as 95%. As our weapons become stronger and the cap is slowly raised this becomes less accurate, but a more accurate figure would only be off by a few percent so that's still typically accepted as true enough to work with.

Because of this their damage variance is exceptionally small regardless of your or the enemy's dexterity, making crits mediocre at best. I've already done the work on the utility of Critical Strike and compared it against a common build:


As you can see, it does indeed raise your damage - but so does SATK Up. This skill is only viable as a result of having no better alternatives for bossing. We're talking about a class with so few decent options that +200 static satk when below 50% PP is considered good. Any time Chase is in effect it wipes the floor with Critical Strike with a mere 5 sp investment. Take that to 10 sp and guffaw heartily.

For christ's sake, Critical Strike is such a weak skill that investing into Fury Critical 6->10, which is 5 SP for +13% critrate (which is actually .6/.47=28% more crits), at the expense of 1% damage skills totaling 5% damage to everything is actually worse.

Oh, and Critical Strike gives a 15% damage bonus, not a 25% damage bonus. Also, crit rate increases are additive.

Yes, I added them together >.<

15% yes but like I said I included minimum damage variance to it which means overall you get 25% more damage when you crit compared to your minimum value. Argh I have exams soon I wish I didn't write this, I'm more in the mood of playing now.

I'd appreciate you not calling it wrong like that, all my info was based on Outer Havens wiki post. Plus they stated the cap was 90%, if someone finds new information that it's not the case then it would throw everything into a muddle again.

ionno then *shrugs*

[gigawuts]

Well, since minimum damage is just that - minimum, that places it at the bottom end of your average damage. Your average damage is most likely close to 97.5% with a rare weapon, making any crit with Critical Strike 18% stronger. With a 60% crit rate - costing you 5 (fury crit) + 10 (brave crit) + 5 (critical strike) = 20 sp - you're looking at 8% more damage due to that 15% bonus damage (.4*.975 + .6*1.15 = .39 + .69 = 1.08 ).

That's 8% average dps for 20 sp.

Averages aren't everything though. If you nail a crit on something that would have dealt 87% of an enemy's hp - the big hitters, like let's say Assault Buster, Backhand Smash, Meteor Fist, etc. - you'll 1shot them. The problem is that this is random, and most players who are going to be minmaxing the dickens out of their classes don't like random. They like consistent.

[Silver Crow]

Well, since minimum damage is just that - minimum, that places it at the bottom end of your average damage. Your average damage is most likely close to 97.5% with a rare weapon, making any crit with Critical Strike 18% stronger. With a 60% crit rate - costing you 5 (fury crit) = 10 (brave crit) + 5 (critical strike = 20 sp - you're looking at 8% more damage due to that 15% bonus damage (.4*.975 + .6*1.15 = .39 + .69 = 1.08 ).

That's 8% average dps for 20 sp.

Averages aren't everything though. If you nail a crit on something that would have dealt 87% of an enemy's hp - the big hitters, like let's say Assault Buster, Backhand Smash, Meteor Fist, etc. - you'll 1shot them. The problem is that this is random, and most players who are going to be minmaxing the dickens out of their classes don't like random. They like consistent.

thanks for the info :) so do you think overall the Fighters Critical Strike mastery and/or Gunners Z Range Crit are worth the five point? or atleastg one point in Gunners case?

for example what would be better, Crit Mastery or 32 more S-atk?

[KatsuraJun]

The only time you should be getting ZRC on Gunner is if you're using crafted 2000Hs or something because no meseta to grind and no premium.

otherwise you're dumping points into the pretty terrible showtime tree and you're going to have to take some points of out Attack PP Restraint.

I mean losing 20% PP regen is preferable if you ARE using a crafted weapon as opposed to wild damage variance but here's pretty much no reason to do that for a person with access to 10*+

[Silver Crow]

The only time you should be getting ZRC on Gunner is if you're using crafted 2000Hs or something because no meseta to grind and no premium.

otherwise you're dumping points into the pretty terrible showtime tree and you're going to have to take some points of out Attack PP Restraint.

I mean losing 20% PP regen is preferable if you ARE using a crafted weapon as opposed to wild damage variance but here's pretty much no reason to do that for a person with access to 10*+

welp, looks like I'm going to buy another skill tree :s Showtime invested in the current one

[Stormwalker]

Saying that it is 25% would be assuming that every attack was doing minimum damage before critical were applied, which certainly is not the case. If you want to be technical, it's. 15% plus however much less than max damage that hit would have done had it not critter.

In my case, I have a dedicated HU tree that I use as my subclass for both FI and GU. Because of this, in my HU tree I have 75 points in the Fury tree and 5 points devoted to picking up Step Attack and Just Reversal. Sure, I could choose not to max out Fury Critical, but where else am I going to put the points? I'd have to waste three of them in Guard Stance just to get to S-ATK Up.

By contrast, I have 5 extra points to work with on the FI side. These drop easily into Critical Strike requiring no changed to my existing PP Slayer build.

The problem with Chase is it only works on things I don't need it on, mostly.

[KatsuraJun]

welp, looks like I'm going to buy another skill tree :s Showtime invested in the current one

I would personally just wait till the next skill reset. It's not like it's the two points you have to give up somewhere else to max out ZRC are a crippling loss, it's just not something you'd ideally use with a rare weapon available.

Hell, if you don't care for Chain Trigger you could knock it down to a one point loss.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?07fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0lbIn 00000000Ib000000lb000000lb2QHSm2IcfGAhnrC0000ib000 0000Ib0000000Ib000000j

[gigawuts]

Saying that it is 25% would be assuming that every attack was doing minimum damage before critical were applied, which certainly is not the case. If you want to be technical, it's. 15% plus however much less than max damage that hit would have done had it not critter.

In my case, I have a dedicated HU tree that I use as my subclass for both FI and GU. Because of this, in my HU tree I have 75 points in the Fury tree and 5 points devoted to picking up Step Attack and Just Reversal. Sure, I could choose not to max out Fury Critical, but where else am I going to put the points? I'd have to waste three of them in Guard Stance just to get to S-ATK Up.

By contrast, I have 5 extra points to work with on the FI side. These drop easily into Critical Strike requiring no changed to my existing PP Slayer build.

The problem with Chase is it only works on things I don't need it on, mostly.

Yeah, this is my problem with Chase.

It should work on bosses during their special SE animations/weakening, and then work on stunned bosses. Chase does work on the stun status effect, so when Ragne is downed he should be taking Chase damage.

[Stormwalker]

That's very much in line with my view, and if it worked that way I'd be much more inclined to invest in it.

*looks at quote of his previous post, winces at typos*. I really gotta stop posting from my phone.

[gigawuts]

I do it too, on keyboards. I'll be multitasking, won't proofread, and surprise your + signs are = signs and you forgot to close your parenthesis.

[Stormwalker]

The worst part about posting from the phone is auto"correct" changing game terms or abbreviations into words it thinks you meant.

[hoangsea]

Ignore crit there is always something better to take.

Edit: I've made a detailed response below with the exact maths, turns out Fighters Critical Mastery and Gunners Zero Range critical are actually worth it. Everything else is still bad though.

::Summary:: (minimum damage increase)
Fighters Crit Mastery: 1% per point (excellent)
Gunners Zero Range crit: 1% per point (excellent)
Wise Stance Crit: 0.25% per point (abysmal)
Brave/Fury/Average/Weak Critical: 0.2% (disgusting)
Shifta Critical: 0.1667% per point (avoid like the plague)

With Fighter Skill:
Wise Stance Critical: 0.625% per point (significant increase, puts it on par with Fury Up 2 [15points for 10% damage]
Brave/Fury/Average/Weak: 0.5% per point (bad/meh)
Shifta Critical: 0.4167% (still eww)

whut ?
for example wise stance at lv 10 is 25% it's 2.5% per lv :-?

[Rendezvous]

Wouldn't FI crit make the need for DEX on Mags less relevant?

[omgwtflolbbl]

People don't put dex on their mags unless they want to be able to equip a specific weapon usually, or they're a hybrid Braver (even then I think a lot of hybrids still probably favor one direction).

[Silver Crow]

whut ?
for example wise stance at lv 10 is 25% it's 2.5% per lv :-?

I was talking about %dmg increase not crit, but this was based on Weapons under 10* rarity, so it's useless now that Sakai stated 10*s set minimum at 90%

[GoldenFalcon]

So am I allowed to be a Fi/Gu with Crit Mastery, Brave Crit, and Zero Range Crit? : D
(Fi/Gu can get over 100% critical rate...)

[Terrence]

I'm playing FIghter/TEcher (with an adequate use of Element Weak Hit which gives me a rather good DPS) and that Critical Strike skill is really great. Well, I have no precise numbers but I feel it every time I play.

[Stormwalker]

So am I allowed to be a Fi/Gu with Crit Mastery, Brave Crit, and Zero Range Crit? : D
(Fi/Gu can get over 100% critical rate...)

Nothing stops you, but it would be terrible DPS. Fury Stance by itself significantly outweighs the damage increase from 100% crit rate. Not the Fury tree, either. *Just* Fury Stance. Also, does ZRC even work on melee attacks?

[XrosBlader821]

No, which makes a Fi/Gu Build pathetic except you main Fi but use TMG multiclass weapons.

[Stormwalker]

No, which makes a Fi/Gu Build pathetic except you main Fi but use TMG multiclass weapons.

Well, that makes it even more terrible. I mean, with the right TMG the only disadvantages of /GU as opposed to GU main are the loss of 30 R-ATK from Rare Mastery Gunner and missing out on High Time... Neither of those are any big deal... but FI really doesn't offer much to TMG's compared to HU or RA.

FI gets you Brave/Wise Stance, Brave/Wise Stance Up, Critical Strike(meh), Brave Critical(waste of SP), and... does PP Slayer give a damage bonus or is it straight S-ATK? I can't remember off the top of my head, and I can't check while posting on my phone. And the stances are mutually exclusive.

HU gets you JA Bonus 1&2, Fury Stance, Fury Stance Boost 1&2, Fury Critical (meh), and Fury Combo Boost. All of which can be active on ALL your attacks, plus JA Bonus synergizes with SRoll JA beautifully.

RA gets you Weak Bullet, Weak Hit Advance 1&2, Standing Snipe 1&2, First Hit, Killing Bonus, and Weak Hit Blast Bonus.

Fi simply doesn't measure up.

Crit isn't something you build for in this game, it's something you take when you run out of better options.

[XrosBlader821]

PP Slayer, Halfline Slayer and Deadline Slayer gives both S-Atk and R-Atk (I suppose for Gunslashes?) But if 20 Atk are compareable to 1% Dmg then all 3 Skills Combined give arond 20% Dmg buff. And for it you need to be almost dead and have little PP.

If you count everything beneficial for Gu on Fi you get
Brave 40%/ Wise 60%, Chase 55%, Slayer 10%~20%, Crit C 15%~40%, Crit D 15%.

Hunter has
Fury 50%, JA 20%, Crit C 7%~20%

Now lets look at Fighter with specific Numbers from a Fi/Gu build.
Brave 35% / Wise 55% (rarely used), Chase 40% (almost never used), Slayer 10%, Crit C 15%, Crit D 15%
If you crit with Brave under 50% PP you get 60% boost. It's less than what Fury does all the time.
If you Crit while in Wise Stance you get a 80% boost. which is more than what Fury gives all the time.
However you loose 15% Damage from High Time, 1,5% Damage from Rare weapon Mastery and 5% damage by loosing almost 100 R-Atk.
So criting in Wise stance gives you unstable 4,5% increased damage at best. But if you plan to use Showtime you loose 10,5% stable damage.
No matter how you look at it you are sacrificing stable damage for less unstable damage.However this might look different if Sega finally releases Brave up 2 and Wise up 2.

[Stormwalker]

If it is true (I have seen this said several times, but never seen it tested) that the kicks on PAs like Heel Stab and Reverse Tap are considered striking attacks, then the equation shifts further in favor of Hunter in those attacks, as Fury Stance's larger Striking bonus applies.

[gigawuts]

With Fi/Gu you get 5+20+15+50=90% critrate, or 5+25+15+50=95% critrate. You'd need a techer with Shifta Crit to get the rest.

[hoangsea]

guys

Zero Range Critical only work when shooting stuff isn't it :\

[XrosBlader821]

we already established that.

(...)Also, does ZRC even work on melee attacks?

No, which makes a Fi/Gu Build pathetic(...)

[GoldenFalcon]

With Fi/Gu you get 5+20+15+50=90% critrate, or 5+25+15+50=95% critrate. You'd need a techer with Shifta Crit to get the rest.

There's a 10* mechgun that gives a Brave Stance Critical latent > u>

[gigawuts]

There's a 10* mechgun that gives a Brave Stance Critical latent > u>

I feel violated.

[UnLucky]

That sounds like a perfectly good idea yes you should totally do that it sounds really powerful and effective and viable and good.

[Walkure]

Please do that, and then run all the testing for ranged PAs so I don't have to do work on them.

And yes, Critical Strike is mostly useful because it's on the one class that has such bad returns on average damage with SP that Stat Ups were a serious contender.

[final_attack]

The idea of FiGu seems fun to try, though I don't think it'll be optimal.

Too bad I don't have high level Fi to test it ==" Mine's still 28 =="

But I tested it anyway ..... Using my usual Fang Banther - point-blank Messiah Time - headshot - full gear

[SPOILER-BOX]Lv 28/70 FiGu - Crafted Yash2k (ExLv 6 - 998 R-Atk - Potential Lv3, affix included) - 90% critical rate (5 + 20 + 15 + 50)

R-Atk - 1674 -> 4884 damage (critical damage shown)
With : Critical Strike (Maxed), Brave Stance (Lv 5), Brave Stance Up (Lv 5). Skill Tree Link (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?07ntbsIkICfbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkfdt0I bIn00000000IbrIsN0l20000lb000000lb2QaS4QIpfGAhorCb n0000Ib0000000Ib0000000Ib000000j).

Considering it still got .....
PP Slayer = +200 R-Atk
Units affix = +90 (I was using +30 R-Atk on all units, no set effect)
Set effect = +90 (or +60, depending on your units)
base stat = +171 (if Skill Simulator is correct, it'll have +171 R-Atk at level cap)
Weapon = +44 (Max crafted tmg with +60 R-Atk will have 1042 R-Atk (?))
Multiplier = +10% (Brave Stance Up Lv 10)

Rough calculation ........

It'll have 2269 R-Atk and give around 7000 damage/hit(?) at level cap maybe? But, considering enemy defense too on SH .... it'll be less than that, right? Or crit doesn't count enemy defense?[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Stormwalker]

Let's just say that if FI/GU or GU/FI was actually good, I would have been doing it a long time ago, because then I'd only have to level my two favorite classes.

[Nitro Vordex]

But...200k crit meteor fists ;_;

[Shinamori]

I did 200k without crits with God Fists. Or is it God's Fist? :E

[Rien]

I've done 300k+ without crits or WB.

I don't know what a crit would have even done.

[UnLucky]

Let's see, if we just pretend like ZRC actually worked for knuckle PAs, and throw in ZRA while we're still in happy speculation fantasy land, and you're at full health, and you somehow got Aerial Advance at the same time, you're looking at 190% damage from Gunner, which goes to 219% on crit (from Fighter's tree, but we'll just attribute that to Gunner's boosted crit chance in the interest of fairness).

Oh wait, subbing Hunter instead gives 220% damage even without a critical hit. And the only condition is to JA.

Oops!

[Silver Crow]

I've done 300k+ without crits or WB.

I don't know what a crit would have even done.

just how powerful is this PA, I know it's rng but jesus that's a lot

[XrosBlader821]

Very powerful
made me reconsider using knuckles

[gigawuts]

Godfisting things is what makes me consider getting a second fighter tree to spec into critical strike.

The thought of a 15% damage bonus to a crit max damage godfist on a weak bulleted bibras weak point is just plain arousing.

[omgwtflolbbl]

And then you get weak single meteor fists for life. Woo!