Crafting weapons: How much dex is enough

[AkumaYouji]

Ok, so as the title says i am "thinking" (i don't really plan on it/want too but if its a viable option I would consider it) about crafting my elder pain due too it being one of the lowest S-atk 10 star swords. once crafted to the current max level it will gain 162 S-atk, but i know it loses its hidden dex modifier which is a pretty big deal. I have a dex mag and somewhere around 450-ish dex (level 54/45 hu/br) i was wondering if that is high enough to where the lost dex modifier wont result in lower dps overall.

Is there a "reccomended" dex amt to economically craft 10s weps or should i just forget that idea and accept its lower S-atk?

Thanks in advance for any help.

p.s I thought this question was a little hefty for the quick answer/quick question forum so sorry.

[Z-0]

You can never have enough DEX. Extra DEX does not reduce your damage variance by much -- even an extra 90DEX does extremely little.

[Vampy]

Dex lowers your minimum attack damage you need a high amount of dex just to make it up it's not worth it unless you want to see your weapon have severe drop offs. My friend has 100 dex on his mag and he still notices the drop off like with shunka he says sometimes it can hit 20k others like 3k.

[Chdata]

Don't get any because it's marginally pointless

[AkumaYouji]

You can never have enough DEX. Extra DEX does not reduce your damage variance by much -- even an extra 90DEX does extremely little.

yeah, that's what I figured based on what little i know about dex(I think i read that what 20 dex increases the lower bound by 1%?) I WANTED to believe it would make it better, but i knew. Thanks for the quick response! 1035 S-atk it is(factoring in my affixes/+60 for 4 piece elder set), for now at least.

EDIT: thanks for your 2 responses as well, and yeah i'm not a risk taker(especially since its non-reversible for now at least) and that 90-100% to 55-100% just sounded too inefficient for its worth.

[Shadowth117]

You can never have enough DEX. Extra DEX does not reduce your damage variance by much -- even an extra 90DEX does extremely little.

This....^

[gigawuts]

Every point of dex you grab is a point of atk you can't grab, which will harm your damage output with any uncrafted rare besides blue or red weapons.

For weapons that do make use of dex, atk and dex raise average damage by similar amounts (or was this disproven with more accurate information giving one or the other better results?)

Either way, pool into atk. It shouldn't surprise anyone that the game is designed so a person with 3 mags - 1 for each atk - gets the best results. They want you to buy those mags.

tl;dr: the better question is: "how much is too much dex?" and the answer is, unfortunately, "1"

I keep a bit around on some mags for gear equips that require it every so often, but I don't delude myself into believing it's ever useful otherwise

[Vampy]

I read before rare weapons have a 90% dex value and crafting removes that or severely lowers it.

[AkumaYouji]

I read before rare weapons have a 90% dex value and crafting removes that or severely lowers it.

yeah I think it lowers it to 55%-100%. I just figured id ask since i've seen 11 star crafts before that i'm pretty sure resulted in LOWER ATK than originally ^^; thanks everyone for the responses, this makes my decision of crafting or not shift from possibly, to definitely not.

[gigawuts]

Rare weapons do not have a dex bonus. That idea was taken out back and shot by Sakai himself on his blog.

Uncrafted rare weapons have a static minimum damage value. Dex is ignored. If you have dex? It doesn't matter. If the enemy has dex? It doesn't matter. The difference between those values? Doesn't matter.

On 1-6* weapons and crafted weapons your dex matters. It matters on blue and red weapons, which also have an innate dex penalty. Enemy dex is compared with your dex to determine variance using some formula I don't care enough to find.

An uncrafted rare weapon sets its minimum damage to be the same as its max, minus 10% of its own base stats. So a rifle with exactly 1000 atk, plus your 1000 affixes, base, mag, whatever atk? That makes your max like you have 2000 atk. Which makes your minimum damage the same as if you had 1900 atk. This is what you should actually care about. Only atk matters here. For uncrafted rare weapons the dex portion of the damage formula is completely ignored.

[Rakurai]

I kind of hope they fix the whole dex thing and let it raise the minimum damage of rares so it isn't totally useless outside of crafted weaponry and stat requirements.

[Symphie]

You can never have enough DEX. Extra DEX does not reduce your damage variance by much -- even an extra 90DEX does extremely little.

Well, once I hit a total of 620 DEX(when 65/65 was the cap) I reached the sweet spot for ~90%-100% damage variance on extended weapons, so that would be "enough". But then again, not like most would kick around with that much DEX to begin with.

[AkumaYouji]

Rare weapons do not have a dex bonus. That idea was taken out back and shot by Sakai himself on his blog.

Uncrafted rare weapons have a static minimum damage value. Dex is ignored. If you have dex? It doesn't matter. If the enemy has dex? It doesn't matter. The difference between those values? Doesn't matter.

On 1-6* weapons and crafted weapons your dex matters. It matters on blue and red weapons, which also have an innate dex penalty. Enemy dex is compared with your dex to determine variance using some formula I don't care enough to find.

An uncrafted rare weapon sets its minimum damage to be the same as its max, minus 10% of its own base stats. So a rifle with exactly 1000 atk, plus your 1000 affixes, base, mag, whatever atk? That makes your max like you have 2000 atk. Which makes your minimum damage the same as if you had 1900 atk. This is what you should actually care about. Only atk matters here. For uncrafted rare weapons the dex portion of the damage formula is completely ignored.

ah ok, thanks for the clarification.

[Macman]

Dex should only be used to meet equipment requirements.

More dex will boost your low-end, yes, but more attack boosts your low-end AND your high-end.

If dex had a more dramatic effect on your low-end hits it might be worth using, but from what I hear it scales about the same as raising your attack. So why not just get more attack and you'll get higher bad hits and higher good hits at the same time?

Plus there's the whole thing about real weapons capping your low end at 90% damage by default.

[Walkure]

Rare weapons do not have a dex bonus. That idea was taken out back and shot by Sakai himself on his blog.

Uncrafted rare weapons have a static minimum damage value. Dex is ignored. If you have dex? It doesn't matter. If the enemy has dex? It doesn't matter. The difference between those values? Doesn't matter.

On 1-6* weapons and crafted weapons your dex matters. It matters on blue and red weapons, which also have an innate dex penalty. Enemy dex is compared with your dex to determine variance using some formula I don't care enough to find.

An uncrafted rare weapon sets its minimum damage to be the same as its max, minus 10% of its own base stats. So a rifle with exactly 1000 atk, plus your 1000 affixes, base, mag, whatever atk? That makes your max like you have 2000 atk. Which makes your minimum damage the same as if you had 1900 atk. This is what you should actually care about. Only atk matters here. For uncrafted rare weapons the dex portion of the damage formula is completely ignored.If anyone cares enough about the specifics, adding DEX to a crafted weapon essentially adds 2 ATK to the minimum damage. So, in order to hit 90% of your weapon's attack again, you need 45% of your weapon's attack in DEX *over* your enemy's DEX.

It depends on the weapon itself, and and a 65 mob has somewhere around 300 DEX. So basically you could shoot for around your weapon attack * 45% +300 DEX for a crafted weapon.

Well, once I hit a total of 620 DEX(when 65/65 was the cap) I reached the sweet spot for ~90%-100% damage variance on extended weapons, so that would be "enough". But then again, not like most would kick around with that much DEX to begin with.That seems kinda low, unless you're using weapons that have something like 700-800 base attack.


If dex had a more dramatic effect on your low-end hits it might be worth using, but from what I hear it scales about the same as raising your attack. So why not just get more attack and you'll get higher bad hits and higher good hits at the same time?
DEX affects the minimum damage on uncrafted weapons by twice as much as ATK does on both minimum and maximum. The only difference is that base-stats ATK will get amplified by shifta (drink) and tree boost, the 5-12% base critical rate will mean attack is still oh-so-slightly better for average damage.

Even then, I'd argue that improving minimum damage is better for guaranteeing one or two shot kills for most weapons, but then again that's just an even bigger argument against extended weapons.

[GHNeko]

Is there anything? Anything at all? That can help deal with the issues of crafting weapons?

I'm walking around with an ExLv3 Katana sitting at 68x Sack because of affixes throwing in +70 sack and +35 dex.

It's sack is a hell of a lot higher than my old roundeet's barely sub300, but i do find myself hitting minimums of like 180s compared to my roundeets constant 260s.

Granted, roundeet is +10 and this katana (It's 1* less than roundeet) is +6 and I havnt crafted it's element to 50 either.

But its still a bit jarring to have shunka do like 2300 normal on 1 hit and then 2700 crit and then 2900 normal.

Or my favorite, the reverse. 2950 normal 2900 crit, then 2700 normal.

like man. rng pls go.

[Symphie]

If anyone cares enough about the specifics, adding DEX to a crafted weapon essentially adds 2 ATK to the minimum damage. So, in order to hit 90% of your weapon's attack again, you need 45% of your weapon's attack in DEX *over* your enemy's DEX.


That seems kinda low, unless you're using weapons that have something like 700-800 base attack.

10* Katana extended to lv7,, so makes sense I suppose? Also, cheers for sharing those specifics for that matter, saves some serious headache. :>

[GoldenFalcon]

More dex will boost your low-end, yes, but more attack boosts your low-end AND your high-end.

If dex had a more dramatic effect on your low-end hits it might be worth using, but from what I hear it scales about the same as raising your attack.

What I read is that Dex adds 2 to your weapon's minimum attack, as opposed to 1 min and 1 max

edit: derp

[Macman]

Are there definitive numbers for attack variance for 1-6*, red/blue weapons, and extended weapons? I know unextended rares are about 90-100% damage, but I've not seen anything else.