GU/FO - The Magical Gunner (Discussion)

[WNxTyr4el]

So I've been thinking of the concept of a Technique using Gunner, GU/FO (or when Ep3 launches, GU/BO or GU/TEC. Has anyone successfully created a character like this? I'm Cast so I have low TATK values but nothing some gear can't fix. Has it worked for anyone and what are some pros/cons of a character of this nature?

I'm currently just going GU/RA and loving it but considered alternatives as well.

[GALEFORCE]

I think the main thing holding gu/fo back, aside from the lack of t-atk TMGs, is the lack of techs that put out good damage. Most of them do pretty low damage, but have low costs to balance them out. This doesn't mesh well with a playstyle that forces you to do a flip with a set animation time before each cast.

The discussion about this build in the gunner topic seemed promising, but that's mostly due to the current ilmegid and its very high damage potential per cast. We'll have to see how the tech balancing goes with ep3. It'll make or break gu/fo.

[WNxTyr4el]

I think the main thing holding gu/fo back, aside from the lack of t-atk TMGs, is the lack of techs that put out good damage. Most of them do pretty low damage, but have low costs to balance them out. This doesn't mesh well with a playstyle that forces you to do a flip with a set animation time before each cast.

The discussion about this build in the gunner topic seemed promising, but that's mostly due to the current ilmegid and its very high damage potential per cast. We'll have to see how the tech balancing goes with ep3. It'll make or break gu/fo.

Does anyone know roughly/vaguely what those changes are going to be in Ep3? I think it's a really sweet concept that SEGA needs to let the players explore by at least buffing or nerfing certain things to make it possible.

[ShinMaruku]

I think the main thing holding gu/fo back, aside from the lack of t-atk TMGs, is the lack of techs that put out good damage. Most of them do pretty low damage, but have low costs to balance them out. This doesn't mesh well with a playstyle that forces you to do a flip with a set animation time before each cast.

The discussion about this build in the gunner topic seemed promising, but that's mostly due to the current ilmegid and its very high damage potential per cast. We'll have to see how the tech balancing goes with ep3. It'll make or break gu/fo.
I used ilfoi as well as ilmegedi on my gu/fo. Really the only thing really holding them back is the T-attacl TMGs you can still use your shooting for trash and what not if you really feel tempted to go there.

[GALEFORCE]

Nazonde, Ilfoie and Nafoie also look promising currently. I'd probably use nafoie to end chains if I don't have anyone to keep my chain going for namegid. You may be able to get off two nafos per chain finish.

But no, we don't have many details. We just know ilmegid, ilgrants (idg this one honestly), and ilbarta are getting nerfed somehow, and most techs are getting some kind of buff.

[Stickboy]

you would want to use fo/gu instead for element conversion skill
having pure t-atk mag and t-atk high with fo/gu would give you over 800 t-atk, but less than that as gu/fo. base stats at lv70, no equips included
sroll would be nerfed next week, so you'll lose 40% of damage
not sure if chain trigger affects techs, but if it does, that'd be pretty sweet

[Sanguine2009]

you would want to use fo/gu instead for element conversion skill
having pure t-atk mag and t-atk high with fo/gu would give you over 800 t-atk, but less than that as gu/fo. base stats at lv70, no equips included
sroll would be nerfed next week, so you'll lose 40% of damage
not sure if chain trigger affects techs, but if it does, that'd be pretty sweet

correct me if im wrong, but wouldn't using Brauvint for its 570 t att provide a larger boost to all techs regardless of element than the +25% damage to matching tech elements from element conversion? assuming the general rule of 20 attack equals about 1% damage.

[Stickboy]

element conversion gives extra 50% for matching element, but 25% for non-matching element. you could get 6 different tmg of different element if you want

untested 'cuz i haven't maxed level force yet. i might be wrong on this part
[SPOILER-BOX]assuming he's a male cast, having t-atk high up and 175 t-atk mag as gu/fo build would give him 761 t-atk. brauvint gives extra 570 t-atk, which is 28.5% damage increase, if you want to follow the general rule
when he use fo/gu, he could get 838 t-atk. he won't have access to brauvint but he could use element conversion. using any tmg and casting tech of the same element would give 50% damage increase[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Kikikiki]

element conversion gives extra 50% for matching element, but 25% for non-matching element. you could get 6 different tmg of different element if you want

untested 'cuz i haven't maxed level force yet. i might be wrong on this part
[SPOILER-BOX]assuming he's a male cast, having t-atk high up and 175 t-atk mag as gu/fo build would give him 761 t-atk. brauvint gives extra 570 t-atk, which is 28.5% damage increase, if you want to follow the general rule
when he use fo/gu, he could get 838 t-atk. he won't have access to brauvint but he could use element conversion. using any tmg and casting tech of the same element would give 50% damage increase[/SPOILER-BOX]

Hahaha talk about misinformation.

[Kondibon]

element conversion gives extra 50% for matching element, but 25% for non-matching element. you could get 6 different tmg of different element if you want

untested 'cuz i haven't maxed level force yet. i might be wrong on this part
[SPOILER-BOX]assuming he's a male cast, having t-atk high up and 175 t-atk mag as gu/fo build would give him 761 t-atk. brauvint gives extra 570 t-atk, which is 28.5% damage increase, if you want to follow the general rule
when he use fo/gu, he could get 838 t-atk. he won't have access to brauvint but he could use element conversion. using any tmg and casting tech of the same element would give 50% damage increase[/SPOILER-BOX]I'm pretty sure it's 50% or 25% of your element bonus on the weapon, which means the damage bonus is actually 25% or 12.5% with a max element weapon.


Hahaha talk about misinformation.
I was trying to find a witty gif to respond this but I can't. I:

[Vintasticvin]

I was always a gun/warrior mage before it became cool

[Kondibon]

I was always a gun/warrior mage before it became coolHow can you do all 3? ._.

[Vintasticvin]

How can you do all 3? ._.

The two were meant to be splitted like a ine or the other and just carry all class weapons even though you may not have the ranged or melee PAs available to you :p

[Kondibon]

The two were meant to be splitted like a ine or the other and just carry all class weapons even though you may not have the ranged or melee PAs available to you :p
Good for you then I guess.

[WNxTyr4el]

you would want to use fo/gu instead for element conversion skill
having pure t-atk mag and t-atk high with fo/gu would give you over 800 t-atk, but less than that as gu/fo. base stats at lv70, no equips included
sroll would be nerfed next week, so you'll lose 40% of damage
not sure if chain trigger affects techs, but if it does, that'd be pretty sweet

Wait. Hold up.

S-Roll is getting nerfed? By 40%? Why did I become a Gunner then?!

[Vintasticvin]

Wait. Hold up.

S-Roll is getting nerfed? By 40%? Why did I become a Gunner then?!

Cause its freaking awesome and mows stuff down!

[Cypher_9]

Wait. Hold up.

S-Roll is getting nerfed? By 40%? Why did I become a Gunner then?!

Because you wanted power.... and that is the WRONG way to even think about a class....

Power only leads to self-destruction... which leads to pain and suffering... *flashbacks of people dying during the over-end era... shunka era... pre and post force era...* HUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGH


The pang... make it... st-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggghghnn!

[WNxTyr4el]

Because you wanted power.... and that is the WRONG way to even think about a class....

Power only leads to self-destruction... which leads to pain and suffering... *flashbacks of people dying during the over-end era... shunka era... pre and post force era...* HUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGH


The pang... make it... st-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggghghnn!

Yoda? Is that you?

http://gph.is/XHtPq2

[Vintasticvin]

Thr joys of seeing a Shunka hero die xD

[GALEFORCE]

Wait. Hold up.

S-Roll is getting nerfed? By 40%? Why did I become a Gunner then?!

50% according to the datamined entry. This is "only" a 25% overall nerf to the gunner class though, not including the nerfs to hunter. You shouldn't notice a major difference as a gu/ra. Gu/Fo is not going to appreciate it in conjunction with the ilmegid nerf though.

[Kondibon]

Don't forget, a good chunk of Gunner's PAs are being buffed too, which most likely means they're going to have higher damage multipliers as well.

[GALEFORCE]

Woah, I forgot they were buffing 8 PAs. I thought it was gonna be like 4, with reverse tap, bullet squall, and dead approach being obvious ones. Hopefully Elder Rebellion and Infinity Fire get a small boost to compensate.

Honestly, I think they only really needed to nerf messiah time and maybe shift period.

[WNxTyr4el]

Don't forget, a good chunk of Gunner's PAs are being buffed too, which most likely means they're going to have higher damage multipliers as well.

Ahhh, okay. I was concerned for a minute lol. Thought I might have to switch classes completely. I was just able to use my +10 TMGs with pot. unlocked. I'm very happy about it. I feel badass.

Poor, poor Fo/Gu though :(. They really just need to make the class (see discussion in General).

[ShinMaruku]

Chain Trigger does works on techs, if you have a good party that can keep the chain going up use namgeid when it peaks 30 and then laugh. I think some people do 600k on quartz but I need to test that myself.

[Cypher_9]

Yoda? Is that you?

http://gph.is/XHtPq2

More so of Professor X: This is me when I meet a DEEPs hero.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7RNjsiNgdM

Yoda would be more like - "To self-destruction, power only leads..." "Pain and suffering, which leads too..."

[ShinMaruku]

More so of Professor X: This is me when I meet a DEEPs hero.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7RNjsiNgdM

Yoda would be more like - "To self-destruction, power only leads..." "Pain and suffering, which leads too..."

POWER!!!!! NYAAAAAAAH, INCREDIBLE POWER! AHHHH ლ(>益<")ლ

[Kondibon]

Woah, I forgot they were buffing 8 PAs. I thought it was gonna be like 4, with reverse tap, bullet squall, and dead approach being obvious ones. Hopefully Elder Rebellion and Infinity Fire get a small boost to compensate.

Honestly, I think they only really needed to nerf messiah time and maybe shift period.No mech gun PAs are getting nerfed. I don't see why dead approach needs to be buffed It has uses outside it's damage. Unless you mean making it stun instead of sending enemies into orbit. I would very much welcome that.

[ReverseSeraf]

Woah, I forgot they were buffing 8 PAs. I thought it was gonna be like 4, with reverse tap, bullet squall, and dead approach being obvious ones. Hopefully Elder Rebellion and Infinity Fire get a small boost to compensate.

Honestly, I think they only really needed to nerf messiah time and maybe shift period.

Infinity Fire honestly is as good as it's going to get. You can move around, you can shoot just about anything, you can dish out a decent amount of damage for the 35 PP it costs...

There's no nerf to TMG PAs, if I recall collectly, but regardless...

Why nerf Messiah Time? That PA actually has limited uses unless you actually know what you're doing. Shift Period is definitely nerf material.


No mech gun PAs are getting nerfed. I don't see why dead approach needs to be buffed It has uses outside it's damage. Unless you mean making it stun instead of sending enemies into orbit. I would very much welcome that.

No one would use Dead Approach for the stun when they already have Reverse Tap for that!

[GALEFORCE]

I didn't say TMG PAs were getting nerfed. I just said it might've been a better move to nerf the problematic PAs rather than sroll. Then again, I doubt SEGA had gu/fo in mind when nerfing it.

Infinity Fire is very good right now, but after the gu and hu nerfs? I have my doubts. Consider that if IF doesn't get any kind of counterbalance, it's gonna be doing ~63% of its current damage on a guhu. It'll probably still work with manual aim and ZRA abuse, but we'll have to see.

Messiah Time is the only thing that puts out ridiculous levels of damage on a guhu. I wouldn't call it situational at all even. If it's a boss, MT can wreck it, with few exceptions. And if you have a Guld Milla? Messiah Time is literally god-mode thanks to its i-frames, and you're still putting out high tier damage only second to a weak bullet class and maybe BHS spam under very ideal conditions.

Dead Approach has pretty much no use at the moment. I don't really ever see a need to send an enemy flying 30 feet with lovetap-levels of damage. It's always a better choice to just kill an enemy with SP/IF/ER/HS. As a travel tool, it has too much delay, which makes it slower than walking. Not even considering possible damage buffs, it could use a travel distance increase and a lower pp cost.

[Akaimizu]

Just saw this topic, and it was like somebody just mentioned Tynselle's name. If the magical gunner architype really comes back, I'll have to really try to figure out how to get connected again. Alas, I haven't been home for the last two months, so no VPN for me. I'll just have to wait some more since no place I've been since then, can connect to this game.

[ReverseSeraf]

I didn't say TMG PAs were getting nerfed. I just said it might've been a better move to nerf the problematic PAs rather than sroll. Then again, I doubt SEGA had gu/fo in mind when nerfing it.

S-Roll JA Bonus is way more problematic than PAs for the same reason that Fury Stance + JA was problematic: for little trouble, you gain 200% damage. I'm actually glad that SEGA's doing an overall nerf of Gu and buffing some PAs so that people will actually come to appreciate the different PAs offered by Gu.


Infinity Fire is very good right now, but after the gu and hu nerfs? I have my doubts. Consider that if IF doesn't get any kind of counterbalance, it's gonna be doing ~63% of its current damage on a guhu. It'll probably still work with manual aim and ZRA abuse, but we'll have to see.

That's fair enough. I guess my main problem with Infinity Fire is that it really stands in contradiction with what I believe Gu is supposed to be, so I just have a natural hatred for it. :L This is all based on how I've seen people using it.


Messiah Time is the only thing that puts out ridiculous levels of damage on a guhu. I wouldn't call it situational at all even. If it's a boss, MT can wreck it, with few exceptions. And if you have a Guld Milla? Messiah Time is literally god-mode thanks to its i-frames, and you're still putting out high tier damage only second to a weak bullet class and maybe BHS spam under very ideal conditions.

I call it situational because it almost has the same problem as Backhand Smash, other than the range: the boss really does have to be stunned for you to use it effectively, or you just gotta predict very accurately the boss's movement. Using it on mobs is also situational at best when there are other more effective PAs in dealing with them.


Dead Approach has pretty much no use at the moment. I don't really ever see a need to send an enemy flying 30 feet with lovetap-levels of damage. It's always a better choice to just kill an enemy with SP/IF/ER/HS. As a travel tool, it has too much delay, which makes it slower than walking. Not even considering possible damage buffs, it could use a travel distance increase and a lower pp cost.

It's useful for a gameplay which requires Gu to be in the air the majority of the time. Probably not the most effective, but sure as hell is fun.

[WNxTyr4el]

S-Roll JA Bonus is way more problematic than PAs for the same reason that Fury Stance + JA was problematic: for little trouble, you gain 200% damage. I'm actually glad that SEGA's doing an overall nerf of Gu and buffing some PAs so that people will actually come to appreciate the different PAs offered by Gu.

This. I feel like all the Gunner videos I watch is just the Gunner flipping back and forth using some combination of Infinity Fire and Elder Rebellion. However, with the nerf to S-Roll, people will start to appreciate the individual PAs a little more I think like you said.

[GALEFORCE]

Well, people are still going to use s-roll 100% of the time. 60% is still a massive damage bonus. Like it or not, the only way PA chains are going to be used with TMGs is to introduce a combo JA bonus that competes with it (say ~30-50%), or by nerfing s-roll into oblivion. The only silver lining about nerfing s-roll instead of just the PAs is that they might introduce that combo JA skill eventually, which could make rifles a pretty decent choice for gunner. Let's hope they go that route someday.

Hunter was problematic for many more reasons than s-roll. Gunner isn't a subclass battery for every non-teching class, and it doesn't force you to haemorrhage 70 skill points into 1% damage skills. The only good thing about nerfing s-roll is, again, the possibility of a combo JA skill that competes with it later on. In the short term it's not gonna do much other than nerf gu.


It's useful for a gameplay which requires Gu to be in the air the majority of the time. Probably not the most effective, but sure as hell is fun.

But with a few tweaks, it can be fun AND effective.


I call it situational because it almost has the same problem as Backhand Smash, other than the range: the boss really does have to be stunned for you to use it effectively, or you just gotta predict very accurately the boss's movement. Using it on mobs is also situational at best when there are other more effective PAs in dealing with them.

It really doesn't. It has substantial i-frames that allow you to flat out ignore enemy attacks. You can jump right into a banther's face, break a leg with your first burst, and unleash streams of headshots that also hit one of its legs at the same time while taking no damage. It's silly-good. The only time I wouldn't use it on a boss is against a charging wolga, or rockbears, which take more from manual aim ER/IF.

[ReverseSeraf]

Well, people are still going to use s-roll 100% of the time. 60% is still a massive damage bonus. Like it or not, the only way PA chains are going to be used with TMGs is to introduce a combo JA bonus that competes with it (say ~30-50%), or by nerfing s-roll into oblivion. The only silver lining about nerfing s-roll instead of just the PAs is that they might introduce that combo JA skill eventually, which could make rifles a pretty decent choice for gunner. Let's hope they go that route someday.

Hunter was problematic for many more reasons than s-roll. Gunner isn't a subclass battery for every non-teching class, and it doesn't force you to haemorrhage 70 skill points into 1% damage skills. The only good thing about nerfing s-roll is, again, the possibility of a combo JA skill that competes with it later on. In the short term it's not gonna do much other than nerf gu.

That's a good point. But hopefully that problem will be solved with Fi as a subclass (specifically, Tech Arts JA), which is viable in ep3 (still is now, imo).

It really was a nightmare to see Gu's only invest 9 points to do one simple twirl and then gain 200%. Comparatively to what Hu as a subclass was facing (around 60 points to get just a bit less), this is much more problematic, imo. I am solely talking about Gu/Hu when I say this; this is, in no regards, related to any other class.


But with a few tweaks, it can be fun AND effective.

Only tweaks I can think of is to increase the distance slightly, and maybe make it cost 20 PP as opposed to 25.


It really doesn't. It has substantial i-frames that allow you to flat out ignore enemy attacks. You can jump right into a banther's face, break a leg with your first burst, and unleash streams of headshots that also hit one of its legs at the same time while taking no damage. It's silly-good. The only time I wouldn't use it on a boss is against a charging wolga, or rockbears, which take more from manual aim ER/IF.

I wasn't really referring to the danger of enemy attacking, but moreso of the enemy moving.

It may not be a real problem when you're soloing, but when you're in a MPA where the boss's aggro is drawn to the character who dealt the most damage (and no, it will not always be you)... it can get quite annoying to position yourself correctly to make sure the hits from Messiah Time does more than what you would do with Infinity Fire.

[Cypher_9]

POWER!!!!! NYAAAAAAAH, INCREDIBLE POWER! AHHHH ლ(>益<")ლ

I couldn't stop laughing at the thought of Prof. X in that scene - and this made it funnier when i seen it...

Now I want a SA with the exact moment of his - INCREDIBLE POWER! AHHHH ლ(>益<")ლ

[GALEFORCE]

That's a good point. But hopefully that problem will be solved with Fi as a subclass (specifically, Tech Arts JA), which is viable in ep3 (still is now, imo).

Fi will be strictly suboptimal for gu. If you really wanna play a class with more conditionals for less damage, it'll be an option, but it's not gonna change what most people play. If tech arts is 15% like the dataminers say it could be, it definitely won't be enough.




I wasn't really referring to the danger of enemy attacking, but moreso of the enemy moving.

It may not be a real problem when you're soloing, but when you're in a MPA where the boss's aggro is drawn to the character who dealt the most damage (and no, it will not always be you)... it can get quite annoying to position yourself correctly to make sure the hits from Messiah Time does more than what you would do with Infinity Fire.

I usually don't see an issue with getting set up in MPAs. Usually the enemy is still enough for you to do enough damage to grab aggro. The only time this'd be an issue is if the dingbat is kiting the enemy while running away for some reason, and no one really wins there. In any case, I presume MT is gonna be one of the PAs that gets no change, so it'll end up getting indirectly nerfed 25% from its current performance.

[UnLucky]

The nerf to SRoll JA isn't going to suddenly make Reverse Tap->Bullet Squall an effective combo. All it's really going to do is make you not feel so bad about finishing off trash with a Satellite Aim.

PA rebalancing notwithstanding, of course.

But this isn't really the Gunner thread, it's more about teching, which I'm fairly certain is going to die before it ever got a chance to get off the ground in the first place.

You've got like... PK and that's it, unless you really wanted to try for Aerial Advance. Then it's either High Time and T-Atk TMGs, or Element Convert with all-class guns.

But even assuming you have just as much T-Atk as a pure caster with as much general multipliers even before S-Roll JA, for the majority of techs it won't be worth flipping first for the exact same reason half of Gunner's own PAs are shit: they don't last as long as the flip. You lose DPS despite gaining a 2x multiplier since you take twice as long to do it.

Of course, there are benefits for "charging" longer to deal more damage, but I don't see it being very useful for general mobbing on account of the game's fast pace.

[GALEFORCE]

Oh right, Satellite Aim exists. Add that to the definitely-getting-buffed list.

Tbh, this whole topic could have been done in the gunner thread. There was some recent discussion of gu/fo there. Whatever though.

[Zorak000]

hi. I did a lot of work on my Gu/Fo build. I also didn't read this whole thread so I MIGHT be repeating some things.

First: this build is EXTREMELY GEAR DEPENDENT. You need at least a ブラウヴィント/Brauvint (http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A6%E3%83%B4%E3% 82%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88) to get this idea to do any sort of respectable damage. Alternatively, if you can acquire the Talis ザフリジェ/Zafrige (http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%B6%E3%83%95%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B8%E3% 82%A7) that is also good too.

so onto the next thing: skills. let's Look at the skills that can help boost tech damage as a gunner main.
Stylish Roll JA Advance: the main bread-and-butter skill that made me consider this build in the first place. it's gonna eat a nerf in Episode 3 but I think some of the other changes might keep this build possible.
Perfect Keeper: since you are Fo sub you can always just Resta-away any damage you take to always keep it up. ザフリジェ/Zafrige (http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%B6%E3%83%95%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B8%E3% 82%A7) has the Perfect Keeper boosting potential, and even though I deal less damage with this talis than S. Rolling with Brauvint, the damage is still quite close with only a level 1 potential and Fo's Talis Tech Bonus working for you.
Attack PP Restorate: Great skill for keeping your PP up independent of Photon Blasts or Mag actions.
High Time???: while TMG Gear does not work with techs, I am unsure if the damage bonus from High Time does. If it does, I guess it would be fine to invest in the Showtime Skills then. reading the thread has told me that High Time does work. so I guess "It's Showtime!"
Chain Trigger: hard to recommend right now, but the changes in episode 3 might make it worth using on at least bosses/minibosses in this build.
Aerial Advance: while it works with techs, I really think it isn't worth the effort, much less the Skill Points. Stylish Roll takes a bit of time to pull off so most things might hit the ground already.

Techs to use: the main theme here is to go with the techs that have a long casting time, mainly to offset the DPS cut you are suffering by having to roll before every tech.
Fire techs: Ilfoie and Nafoie are good for it given their high-power and long casting time. Ilfoie is the stronger choice here but after the rebalence we will see. Craft Recommendations: for Ilfoie both recipes cut the power down. and at the same time the one that reduces the charge time does not reduce the power as much as the PP-cutting one. Tough call for me but my gut tells me Efficiant Ilfoie 3 might be better if you can get the best demerit roll.
Ice Techs: Ilbarta and Sabarta. Ilbarta's chain is too strong to ignore, especially if there are other tech-users around. Sabarta is feeling a bit weak by comparison right now but I feel it will see a buff or something in EP3 to make it a solid alternative when you don't have a chain buddy for ilbarta. Crafts: make them both Ice Fang. there really isn't a better choice for them. Ice Fang Barta 3 might also be good since we can work with the charge time demerit.
Lightning Techs: Ilzonde and Nazonde Nazonde roots you in place for the duration so it has potential I think. Ilzonde is quite strong so I included it too. Crafts: Like with Ice, just go Supercharged 3.
Wind Techs: Windslicer Sazan 3 Wind lacks good long-charging techs, so I guess just stick to what works. I included the craft in the name because wind is really lacking for this build.
Light Techs: At long range:Brilliant Grants 3 and Ilgrants are competitive I guess, depending how the buffs/nerfs go. At close range: Nagrants, with either Gigrants or Ragrants honestly I don't think you can really go wrong in light for this build.
Dark Techs: You already know I am going to say Namegid and Ilmegid, so I will say to go with Efficiant Ilmegid 3 instead of the pure damage craft instead.

That's about all I can really say; stick a bunch of those techs on your sub-pallet and go to town. the Talis and maybe a Bio Rod can help you use any of the faster-charging techs if you still want to use them.


EDIT: oh I forgot to mention that Ilbarta is really skill-dependant in this build. S. Roll eats a fair chunk of your time to get the next Ilbarta off, so there is very little room for error to build the full chain solo. but try to still get some shots off while you are S. Rolling to restore more PP! if you can pull that off consistently then you can maybe even do multiple full chains of Ilbarta in a row, but I am not sure.

EDIT2: here have some skill trees:
pre-EP3: http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?07rIbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0lbI n00000000Ib000000lb000000lbeD52msIxfGAhNbpbn00004O I22SqxjbncAIkfbn00000Ib0000000Ib000000j there are unspent Fo SP to encourage build variance.
post-EP3: http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v2/skillcalc.php?08rIbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk 0jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006dold2OGXqFq ncxhf20000loI2iN2NGAIkqnIk000000IoIn0000000lbIo000 000fdoIb000000f there is a LOT more leftover Fo SP here. heck you could even still max the Photon Flare skills if you wanted!

[Vintasticvin]

This thread is like Sword Arts Online. Looks very promising and but winds up to be utter garbage.

[ReverseSeraf]

You've got like... PK and that's it, unless you really wanted to try for Aerial Advance. Then it's either High Time and T-Atk TMGs, or Element Convert with all-class guns.

I'm fairly certain Fo/Gu would be a more optimal set-up, simply because Element Conversion gives a much higher multiplier than Hightime and isn't nearly as restrictive unless players really don't feel like dishing out the extra cash for a rainbow palette. Of course, Element Conversion only applies to techs whereas Hightime applies to both, but I can't really see scenarios where TMG would benefit from this.


Of course, there are benefits for "charging" longer to deal more damage, but I don't see it being very useful for general mobbing on account of the game's fast pace.

I'd like to think that, with Gu/Fo (or Fo/Gu), gameplay in terms of mobbing would be similar to Hu/Te: Zondeel -> unleash hell. Except Gu/Fo would have a much smoother transition from the Zondeel to the tech through S-Roll, which conveniently buffs the tech.

Bosses would be tricky: I'd assume Chain Trigger would be the most viable way to boost damage.


This thread is like Sword Arts Online. Looks very promising and but winds up to be utter garbage.

Your comment is like teenage pregnancy: it's unwanted.

[Zorak000]

EDIT: oh I forgot to mention that Ilbarta is really skill-dependant in this build. S. Roll eats a fair chunk of your time to get the next Ilbarta off, so there is very little room for error to build the full chain solo. but try to still get some shots off while you are S. Rolling to restore more PP! if you can pull that off consistently then you can maybe even do multiple full chains of Ilbarta in a row, but I am not sure.

I just realized that the reason chaining Ilbarta is Really Hard was because me using Ice Fang 3 on it gave me +.18 charge time WHOOPS. so if you are going to use Ice Fang 3 you need to make sure you get less than +.20 on the charge time for the demerit, or else it is flat-out impossible to chain S. Rolled Ilbartas.

this also means you can get yourself more room for error by going for Concentrated Ilbarta 3 to reduce the charge time. so it is up to you, play the more skilled route with Ice Fang or take the safe route with Concentrated.

[UnLucky]

I'm fairly certain Fo/Gu would be a more optimal set-up, simply because Element Conversion gives a much higher multiplier than Hightime and isn't nearly as restrictive unless players really don't feel like dishing out the extra cash for a rainbow palette. Of course, Element Conversion only applies to techs whereas Hightime applies to both, but I can't really see scenarios where TMG would benefit from this.
AFAIK there are no Force equippable TMGs with T-Atk on them, so you lose like 500 T-Atk right there (accounting for main class base stats as well), although the Brauvint potential is worthless for techs.

It pretty much evens out with any old all-class guns with 0 T-Atk as a Force with Element Convert, so it's really just your weapon potential vs High Time.

[Sandmind]

I'd like to think that, with Gu/Fo (or Fo/Gu), gameplay in terms of mobbing would be similar to Hu/Te: Zondeel -> unleash hell. Except Gu/Fo would have a much smoother transition from the Zondeel to the tech through S-Roll, which conveniently buffs the tech.

Bosses would be tricky: I'd assume Chain Trigger would be the most viable way to boost damage.

From first hand experience, trying to do an Sroll right after Zondeel will not work, there is a delay. On the flip side, there is no delay if using a dodge roll and then doing Sroll Shift Period back into that group...

For Chain Trigger, I have seen a vid of a FOGU in TD3 pulling capped number (aka, 999 999 damage and above) on boss with Chain and Ilbarta, so you're right there.

Element Conversion should be close to match Brauvint in theory, until we factor in specie latent matching each element. But then, High Time Brauvint should still be solid for Teching on top of being better to actually doing gunning also.

Edit: Found that FOGU TD3 video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24061944) I personally use http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html to watch that website's videos.

[ReverseSeraf]

AFAIK there are no Force equippable TMGs with T-Atk on them, so you lose like 500 T-Atk right there (accounting for main class base stats as well), although the Brauvint potential is worthless for techs.

It pretty much evens out with any old all-class guns with 0 T-Atk as a Force with Element Convert, so it's really just your weapon potential vs High Time.

I swore Brauvint was Fo equippable, but it's actually Te... welp, you're right.

All of this really makes you wonder how SEGA designed their skill trees and weapons... they have PP Bullet Save in RA that affects techs too, but the best AR for it would be a 190 T-ATK one. Not to mention the potential on it... :I


From first hand experience, trying to do an Sroll right after Zondeel will not work, there is a delay. On the flip side, there is no delay if using a dodge roll and then doing Sroll Shift Period back into that group...

I can't imagine the delay being that substantial to where it wouldn't work. Been doing Zondeel -> tech for the majority of my time as Fo/Br, unless there's a difference in delay time inherent in each class.

[Sandmind]

I swore Brauvint was Fo equippable, but it's actually Te... welp, you're right.

All of this really makes you wonder how SEGA designed their skill trees and weapons... they have PP Bullet Save in RA that affects techs too, but the best AR for it would be a 190 T-ATK one. Not to mention the potential on it... :I



I can't imagine the delay being that substantial to where it wouldn't work. Been doing Zondeel -> tech for the majority of my time as Fo/Br, unless there's a difference in delay time inherent in each class.

Sega must had seen it coming, meaning they might actually test their stuff once in a while in the past. Now that Sroll is getting nerfed, maybe we will now see FO able tmg with Tatk. Or at least new option for crafting, since apparently one of the item slot isn't used right now (1st being -req ticket, 3rd being class ticket, what about the 2nd one?).

And as a FO main myself, yeah zondeel cause no problem to immediatly mirage/step/roll dodge, jumping, starting a PA/tech/normal or walking out of it, but Sroll refuse to work immediatly right after casting it.

[WNxTyr4el]

Question though - you can't cast any techs without a Rod or Talis equipped, right?

[UnLucky]

And as a FO main myself, yeah zondeel cause no problem to immediatly mirage/step/roll dodge, jumping, starting a PA/tech/normal or walking out of it, but Sroll refuse to work immediatly right after casting it.

Could always jump cancel the casting animation, but then you obviously can't do that if you're already in the air


Question though - you can't cast any techs without a Rod or Talis equipped, right?
You can cast with any weapon equipped if you set techs to your subpalette

[Maenara]

Question: How does the Chain Finish multiplier work? Because I'm thinking Nabarta as a chain finish to rack up dat multiplier time.

[GALEFORCE]

The Chain Finish multplier only lasts for about 2-3 seconds, so Nabarta would not be a good finisher. I would say use either namegid with a team that can keep your chain going, or nafoie if solo.

[Sandmind]

No one looked at that FOGU vid? I know it was long, but I saw that Lilipan magical gunner pull Chain Finish with ilbarta 6th and 7th cast a few time on boss. Also confirming Galeforce saying CF last 2-3sec.

Concerning Nabarta and Chain, I know that tech count as "uncharged", that could be a cool way to raise chain number while doing damage I guess if it work.


Could always jump cancel the casting animation, but then you obviously can't do that if you're already in the air.

Jump cancel? ... now I feel extremely silly.

[Kondibon]

No one looked at that FOGU vid? I know it was long, but I saw that Lilipan magical gunner pull Chain Finish with ilbarta 6th and 7th cast a few time on boss. Also confirming Galeforce saying CF last 2-3sec.

Concerning Nabarta and Chain, I know that tech count as "uncharged", that could be a cool way to raise chain number while doing damage I guess if it work.



Jump cancel? ... now I feel extremely silly.At which point in the video? If it's TD then it's entirely possible that someone else built up the ilbarta and the FO/GU just finished it, which isn't what I think anyone had in mind.

Last time I checked uncharged techs still count as finishes, so I dunno what you're talking about.

And jump canceling is when you cancel an animation by jumping. It's usually done to do something faster than you normally would be able to.

[Dinosaur]

messing around with this about a month ago

http://www.twitch.tv/gmcustom/c/4947994

Uncharged techs do add to chain count. So, you uncharge 5 then charge the 6th and 7th(both will get chain finish bonus)

[UnLucky]

Uncharged techs can apply and build CT but can't activate CF nor get the bonus damage. Same with Katana Finish if you're interested. They count as normal attacks.

[Kondibon]

Uncharged techs can apply and build CT but can't activate CF nor get the bonus damage.
http://i.imgur.com/tKy4rG2.gif

[Maenara]

So technically, Nabarta could easily build up a chain?


Also, I can't seem to pull off a Chain-Finish Namegid, is it not possible?

[final_attack]

Isn't to do Chain Finish using Na-Megid, you'll need a friend help to keep the chain alive while Na Megid is still charging?

[Maenara]

I can't seem to get Chain Finish bonus damage even when I use something that loads as quickly as Nazan, which is amazing by the way. Do you have to detonate the chain and THEN the damage bonus happens?

[UnLucky]

You should get the bonus on whatever activated CF, along with anything else until it wears off.

Although uncharged techs won't.

[batokage]

Anyone have thoughts on if GU/BO is even somewhat viable? I figure with Elemental Stance, Elemental PP field, and even one point in the Deband PP buff could at least make GU/BO better than GU/TE from a more front-lines perspective anyway. Love the option of having a tech weapon that actually has more flair than swinging a wand around continuously (no offense techters, I used to love wand lovers...then jetboots came along).

[Sandmind]

Since I have Guild Milla, I went ahead and level'ed BO a little on Tasia. The result: no damage from sub, obviously, but I was a walking mini megiverse with Heal Share and that Deband atk PP combined with atk pp restore is insane regen.

That's about it, I didn't dig further, but a rainbow palette of TMG get more damage from BO than TE sub. Utility wise, both have it's up.

[batokage]

So speaking as a GU who doesn't own a guld milla, does it make more sense to stay GU/BO with a chain trigger emphasis on my gunner skill tree along with he 20% unconditional boost of perfect keeper and attack PP restorate or is it better to go with RA/BO since there's weak bullet, trap PP tactics/gravity bomb as well as damage boost for long distance attacks (provided this actually boost more than shooting attacks).

[taizero00]

im currently playing fo/gu with crafted tmg with chain finish potential.
Furthermore, you can zondeel-stylish roll without any delay if you jumb after casting tech to cancel the animation.
Also, fo/gu is not amateur-friendly as it required a lot of skill to master the chain and ilbarta.
watch this video and analyse it. However, sega plans to nerf chain in the future too.
therefore, dont get your hope up.

http://youtu.be/hbAKC_sNnds

in this video, i messed with chain as only 18 combo applied while >19 combo is much more damage.

check out my channel, there are some old video from ep2 when gunner dont get nerfed yet.

[batokage]

O___O holy hell. I'm assuming you have at least chain finish and elemental conversion maxed right? Why did it never occur to me to use uncharged auto target techs like rafoie, ra/sazan, grants, or ilbarta to keep up a chain...

Either way is a crafted Ilbarta the only way to do respectable tech chain finish damage because of its stacking damage nature?

[taizero00]

my ilbarta is crafted ice fang with +150% power. charge time is 1.2s
my chain finish is max and ofc element conversion. also only ilbarta chain combo is most natural combo with tmg while doing a huge damage.
* one more thing, i never run out of pp if i spam the ilbarta normal without chain unlike anything other force have to switch to gunlash or pp convert or PB.

[ShinMaruku]

Well good to see this nuttery still works.

[taizero00]

The most satisfied Challenge ever make with FO/Gu

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uvkbYR6UGo[/spoiler-box]

[GALEFORCE]

That looks really promising. Be sure to update us when the Chain nerf hits. I hope it's still viable after.

[taizero00]

hugest nerf to stylisJA;;;60%->10%..
now fo/gu is no longer viable....just a quick updating...
thanks sega... now i cant play the class i love anymore

[Sandmind]

Yeah, GUFO leveling was good fun at the end of EP2, but I had been busy level capping TE and leveling BO in EP3, and with the announced further change to GU, I didn't invest more time/meseta on that class combo. I'm glad I did now...

One has to wonder if that grave making was because FOGU, as it standed, was going to outshine the eventual R+Tatk class next year?

On the flip side (no pun intended), maybe, just maybe, Sega will release some good TMG with great Tatk and PK latent and have it FO, TE and BO (why not?) able.

[Vintasticvin]

So lemme get this straight (Have mercy I'm a Lv30 Gunner) you guys activate chain trigger, spam uncharged techs, then finish with a charged? Also should I be flipping tables in a fit of rage over the gunner changes?

On another character I have FO52/GU25 with a mag that has tech as the dominant stat (50) with shots at 30 >_>

[Sandmind]

Sroll JA used to make up for the lack of Tatk on TMG. The final damage multiplier was so high it could match standard rods. Now GU offer less Tech multipliers than BO and TE and Average Stance BR not requiring TMG (let's not count arieal advance).

Even accounting for Brauvint barely reaching under 600 Tatk pre-affix'ing, but it's not able to be used by FO sadly, so cannot make use of Element Conversion. High Time can only go so far (and lower base Tatk as GUFO). But right now it would be the only option left to this class combo's two feets in the grave. That and having some spare SP on FO for Photon Flare I guess.... but I saw Taizero was already using it on his great solo Luther vid.

To answer your question, Chain Trigger synch very well with Ilbarta. Build chain with normal attack and uncharged Ilbarta, then charge 6th and could still Sroll 7th in time before it wear'ed off. I saw a few vid where Ilbarta was doing 500k-700k on 6th and 999999 on 7th hit and boss melted in EP2.

[ShinMaruku]

If only Sega saw the brilliance of the goofy s-roll modifer and put it in other places. However that's expecting Platinum or Kojima Productions work out of Sega, never will happen.

[Zorak000]

there is a new TMG with T-atk that has 450 base and maybe 877.5ish at +10, so I guess the dream still lives?

[GALEFORCE]

there is a new TMG with T-atk that has 450 base and maybe 877.5ish at +10, so I guess the dream still lives?

Not equippable by fo means no element conversion or masteries. I don't see the tatk making up for the loss of sroll JA and fo's skills.

[taizero00]

new tmg マドゥラードヴァリス : only Gu & TE: with +10-877tatk with fire tech latent.
forcing people go GU/FO to cancel the element conversion and get high time instead
Also from tmg potential, sega want people to go max fire instead of ice...
i have found the treatment for Fo/GU ...doing slightly more damage than previous tmg combo but still less than ep2. that method is using motav prophecy and photon flare to finish the chain instead of using tmg

[Sandmind]

That TMG's Tatk is in the ballpark of Motav I see. It's a start.

I personaly always prefered Ice tech to other element to combine with GU, not only because of Ilbarta and CT, but because Gibarta and Sroll combined very well for mobbing (not the fastest, but safe and fun, at least for me). But fire does burn PP fast and their tech should combine well also (and Sega afraid of ilbarta CF).

If I had AC, I might dig in and visit GUFO again and test that new toy. With maybe something like this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08rdbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk jdt8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006dBIbid2Og XqoqxcKhf20000lolN2SGA2X8cKIk00000ioIn0000000lbIo0 00000fdoIb000000f)? Could alternate HT and PF for mobbing and combo'ing both with CT I guess.

[taizero00]

as promised, i upload the video after nerfing to stylish roll

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6N2SYiDE_o[/spoiler-box]

And new combo:

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73uEtxdEk2M[/spoiler-box]

[Kondibon]

as promised, i upload the video after nerfing to stylish roll

[spoiler-box]current old tmg combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6N2SYiDE_o)[/spoiler-box]

And new combo:

[spoiler-box]new chain combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73uEtxdEk2M)[/spoiler-box]New video is 2 seconds longer. Fo/Gu is dead.

[ShinMaruku]

You guys keep this up and Sega will kill it. This offends them. http://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/jtv_user_pictures/emoticon-2867-src-f02f9d40f66f0840-28x28.png

[Vintasticvin]

You guys keep this up and Sega will kill it. This offends them. http://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/jtv_user_pictures/emoticon-2867-src-f02f9d40f66f0840-28x28.png

This will weed out the true Gunners from the flavor of the month kids.

[Chdata]

ew, having to weapon switch.

[Maenara]

>new T-atk TMG
>Fire tech latent
>clearly intended as tech-range hybrid weapon
>multiclass equipable by the teching class that has nothing to do with fire

At this point I feel like Sega is trolling.

[Sandmind]

>new T-atk TMG
>Fire tech latent
>clearly intended as tech-range hybrid weapon
>multiclass equipable by the teching class that has nothing to do with fire

At this point I feel like Sega is trolling.

My exact feeling.

Also, it look like a bone thrown at players to keep us from raging and to see what we end up doing with said bone. We're the beta tester as usual and I wouldn't be surprised if the data end up being used to work on the future guntech class.... wait ... guntecher? Sigh ...

[ShinMaruku]

>new T-atk TMG
>Fire tech latent
>clearly intended as tech-range hybrid weapon
>multiclass equipable by the teching class that has nothing to do with fire

At this point I feel like Sega is trolling.

Don't mistake trolling for stupidity.

[Maenara]

Don't mistake trolling for stupidity.

There's literally no way you could possibly get ANY closer to what FO/GU needs to become a serious thing. There's no way you could get that close without it being on purpose.

[taizero00]

EVEN with the nerf, im still able to kill the new bosses with ease

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0LA4JjuK9k[/spoiler-box]

[taizero00]

i found the new method to increase the damage thank to extend duration of chain.
therefore, even without switching talis, the damage still didnt fall down

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyxoTkl3Jh8[/spoiler-box]

[Selphea]

Have you tried using uncharged Zanverse in place of SRJA? Since SRJA is down to 10% I wonder if uncharged Zanverse might be more worth doing to buff the finisher.

[taizero00]

uncharged zanverse duration is 1.5s....even with full charged 5s and bigger aoe, the tech forces you to stay in one place which make you vulnerable for SH aggressive boss. Furthermore, my crafted ilbarta is power with 1.2sec charge so if you wanna to use zanverse, the charge reduction is recommend but you lose around 20% damage which is same damage bonus from zanverse.

[davenger]

So i love this concept and would love to become a gu/fo but first i what would be the way to do it now and what would the skill trees/gear be for thisafter all the nerfing,thanks in advance

[taizero00]

There are two possible builds for this Force. Units you can either have folly set with pp+10 arm unit or any crafted units. My current units is gunne units which known as the strongest 11* units atm.

+GU/FO with マドゥラードヴァリス with Fire tech potential. with this build, you lose around 100t-atk with Gunner main. also you cant use talis,rod and element conversion.
THerefore, you can only use fire and ice tech with that tmg. As far as i know, this tmg is 11* and expensive so unless you are premium and have decent meseta finance. I dont recommend this build. However, this build has the highest damage output with fire and ice techs

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08rIbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk jdt8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006ebld2NgXq oqxcKhf20000jdBlNdsGAIklkGAcKIk00000ioIn0000000lbI o000000fdoIb000000f

+Fo/Gu with crafted パンドラエクストリーム with potential chain finish and Force class accessibility. This build you use talis as your mob killing tools and tmg as your boss killer weapon. you can also switch to talis to finish the chain for higher damage output. In my opinion, this build is my favourite build with more freedom than other build.

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08ogbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk jdt8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006eold2NgXI 2qxcKhf20000jdBbsiN2SGBeKdnixGAIb00000loIn0000000l bIo000000fdoIb000000f

[davenger]

There are two possible builds for this Force. Units you can either have folly set with pp+10 arm unit or any crafted units. My current units is gunne units which known as the strongest 11* units atm.

+GU/FO with マドゥラードヴァリス with Fire tech potential. with this build, you lose around 100t-atk with Gunner main. also you cant use talis,rod and element conversion.
THerefore, you can only use fire and ice tech with that tmg. As far as i know, this tmg is 11* and expensive so unless you are premium and have decent meseta finance. I dont recommend this build. However, this build has the highest damage output with fire and ice techs

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08rIbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk jdt8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006ebld2NgXq oqxcKhf20000jdBlNdsGAIklkGAcKIk00000ioIn0000000lbI o000000fdoIb000000f

+Fo/Gu with crafted パンドラエクストリーム with potential chain finish and Force class accessibility. This build you use talis as your mob killing tools and tmg as your boss killer weapon. you can also switch to talis to finish the chain for higher damage output. In my opinion, this build is my favourite build with more freedom than other build.

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08ogbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk jdt8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006eold2NgXI 2qxcKhf20000jdBbsiN2SGBeKdnixGAIb00000loIn0000000l bIo000000fdoIb000000f
thank you very much for this info,but in this case wouldn't crafting the first one just be better off?
also from this page http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222297 it would seem that by crafting it all the way and with a full gunne set the damage variation would be incredibly small(approx 80 dex from making it to the same level as non crafted that can be solved with ability 3 on units and weapon to a level).

[Sandmind]

Crafting 1st one? Wait, you mean crafting the new fire tech latent TMG? I'm sorry, but that wouldn't work. Crafting replace most paramaters with the standard from the recipe and there is currently no crafting recipe that add Tatk on no tech weapon. You would lose far too much more than you would gain from making it FO able.

[taizero00]

only crafted the second tmg if you wanna play FO/GU. first 11* star tmg is the reason for GU/FO builds because main FO will have more benefits than main GU.
MAIN FORCE: Element conversion 25% and the new charge escape is nice too.
Main GUnner: HIgh time....20% but need show time to be active and lose the bonus if you get hit and have to wait at least 10s without damaging to be effective.

[taizero00]

ENJOY

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPg-xhIgeo4[/spoiler-box]

[Xanlarel]

So, looking for recommendations.

I just got back from a 1 year hiatus, and this seems like a fun thing to try, my Fo tree is around 45 and my Gu tree is around 55, im probably going to pick up a couple of 10* weaps and units to upgrade my old stuff(king unit set + trans TMG)

Recommendations for both Fo\Gu and Gu\Fo on weapons\units\skill tree?

[taizero00]

Originally Posted by taizero00 View Post
There are two possible builds for this Force. Units you can either have folly set with pp+10 arm unit or any crafted units. My current units is gunne units which known as the strongest 11* units atm.

+GU/FO with マドゥラードヴァリス with Fire tech potential. with this build, you lose around 100t-atk with Gunner main. also you cant use talis,rod and element conversion.
THerefore, you can only use fire and ice tech with that tmg. As far as i know, this tmg is 11* and expensive so unless you are premium and have decent meseta finance. I dont recommend this build. However, this build has the highest damage output with fire and ice techs

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/sk...00fdoIb000000f

+Fo/Gu with crafted パンドラエクストリーム with potential chain finish and Force class accessibility. This build you use talis as your mob killing tools and tmg as your boss killer weapon. you can also switch to talis to finish the chain for higher damage output. In my opinion, this build is my favourite build with more freedom than other build.

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/sk...00fdoIb000000f

You can check my recommendation that i already posted before

[taizero00]

i found a new toy for Fo/Gu. it's all class tmg with decent tatk but the drawback is the obtaining.
エレヌトレーマー with 780tatk at +10 with dark technics potential and unique native namegid on it.

[ShinMaruku]

Ok I am having some issues with gu/fo how do I use the chain finish bonus to do those boss melting crits properly? Should I keep the ilbarta tick at almost where it's almost the big one then use a gun pa and use the last tick to melt the boss or just start up the ramp up with chain trigger on the boss?

[taizero00]

...i got a bit confused from what you said. SO did you mean you wanna use TMG PA to start the chain finish and use tech after that or something similar?
From my opinion, use the chain with Pa and techs together will increase more burden on your control that was already stressful if you playing chain ilbarta. however, if you think you can pull it off then just use it to your liking.

[ShinMaruku]

Oh so I am making it more difficult than it needs to be? How do you do the chain finish thing?

[Maenara]

i found a new toy for Fo/Gu. it's all class tmg with decent tatk but the drawback is the obtaining.
エレヌトレーマー with 780tatk at +10 with dark technics potential and unique native namegid on it.

Why does Sega keep doing this. This is the second unique hybrid weapon they've made obtainable for 1 week only on PSO2es.

[taizero00]

Oh so I am making it more difficult than it needs to be? How do you do the chain finish thing?
take advance of ilbarta first 5 hits to build up the chain to >19, and finish the chain with 6th and 7th ilbarta...or you can just use the 7th ilbarta as finish


Why does Sega keep doing this. This is the second unique hybrid weapon they've made obtainable for 1 week only on PSO2es.

yeah, same case with rifle tatk for RA/FO too. you better get one from player shop before its price escalate further

[taizero00]

XH bosses have almost 4 times HP with the SH bosses. O3O

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM6kcfELEA4[/spoiler-box]

[davenger]

so what do you think we should put the new skill points in now that we have more levels,i was thinking of removing the points from photon flare and fill up the fire mastery,no idea what to do with the gunner points however

[taizero00]

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09oIbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIk 0jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000febld2NgXI 2rKcKhIdF0000jdBbsiN2SGBdXlkGAIxIb00000ioIn0000000 0IbIo0000008doIb0000008
you can check this one if you wanna max fire and ice. gunner extra point in aerial advance may help a bit in fight flying mobs...well other than that i dont quite know what to do with them
Unless you wanna go Gu/Fo, which you can max out fire & ice with access to both two tatk tmg. one disadvantage is you use talis so talis bonus is out of question. completely rely on tmg to kill mobs
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09rIbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIk 0jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000febld2NgXq sqxcKhIdF0000lolN2SGAIklkGAbXIk00000ioIn00000000Ib Io0000008doIb0000008

[davenger]

the skill trees you posted aren't working,though i was thinking of gu/fo with something like this:
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09rIbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIk 0jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdOIbid2Og XqsqxcKhIdF0000lolN2SGAIklxGAbXIk00000ioIn00000000 IbIo0000008doIb0000008
but i am not sure if hightime and gear effects techs or not,the fire tmg should be more than enough
for mobbing with this tree and it gets awesome boss damage if it works,maybe even craft the ice latent rod for the finisher?

[taizero00]

hightime affect the tech damage while the gear will not. because the gear only increase the shooting atk. i'm not sure what happen with the skill tree which is working fine for me. your skill tree is similar with me and only have slightly difference. Also i mistook the extra SP we got...we can have 87 points now

[ShinMaruku]

take advance of ilbarta first 5 hits to build up the chain to >19, and finish the chain with 6th and 7th ilbarta...or you can just use the 7th ilbarta as finish




Will try.

[taizero00]

Well just to show how i fight XH bosses now.

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYsS5COWXdE[/spoiler-box]

[davenger]

have to say i am loving this so far,can't wait till i finally get 75/75 and afford the tmgs

[taizero00]

glad to hear that...apparently, there is one talis you can use it as GU/FO with a lovely potential 8% damage from far range. with talis bonus and high time active, your damage will probably same with FO/GU with nepto rod.
well but ofc, you still have to rely on tmg for mobing cause most of element talis in FO only.

[Sandmind]

glad to hear that...apparently, there is one talis you can use it as GU/FO with a lovely potential 8% damage from far range. with talis bonus and high time active, your damage will probably same with FO/GU with nepto rod.
well but ofc, you still have to rely on tmg for mobing cause most of element talis in FO only.

If that's the talis I think, then it's 1st potential is Perfect Keeper, which is 9% these day iirc. That 2nd potential was probably added because it would had been useless if no GU in the class combo (especially since also RA able).

[davenger]

for gu/fo wouldn't just a crafted nepto rod be better,or you could just take out a couple of points from fire and get out with a quite nice 20% talis bonus if you use this one to finish

[taizero00]

well all about finance which you have... nepto rod is not cheap and once you crafted, you cant resell it. the other talis is quite cheaper compare to nepto rod..
most important thing is personal interest...some people just wanna use rod rather talis

[Maenara]

Gu/Fo might have a new toy:
http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%88%E3%83%B4%E3% 82%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88

Recolored Brauvint. 780 T-atk at +10. Has a new unique potential that boosts damage while moving by 15%, but I'm not sure if it's restricted to shooting-only.

[Bellion]

射撃ダメージ

[Z-0]

射撃ダメージ
nobody can understand though??????????????

[final_attack]

Ranged damage o_o

[Maenara]

Close enough. Tech damage is like ranged damage, but with, like, tech instead of ranged. I bet the potential can't even tell the difference.

[LonelyGaruga]

It is ranged damage only, swiki says so. It's Moving Snipe, but a potential. Standing Snipe and Weak Hit Advance don't work for techs, neither do their potential equivalents. Same thing here.

[Triple_S]

It is ranged damage only, swiki says so. It's Moving Snipe, but a potential. Standing Snipe and Weak Hit Advance don't work for techs, neither do their potential equivalents. Same thing here.

What a waste. Could have been something befitting the T-ATK, like a percent bonus to tech damage while in Showtime, or to techs done during Chain Finish.

[Maenara]

It is ranged damage only, swiki says so. It's Moving Snipe, but a potential. Standing Snipe and Weak Hit Advance don't work for techs, neither do their potential equivalents. Same thing here.

Oh Garuga, you missed my humor.

[LonelyGaruga]

As usual.

Brauvint had the same thing done to it with ZRA latent, so I guess Sega thought it would be funny to do a repeat.

[Xanlarel]

Anyone got skill tree recomendations?

[BlueCast Boy]

Gu/Fo if you want skill that also boost tech damage max Perfect Keeper, If you have TMG that has high rate T-ATK you can try Stylish Roll JA, PP Attack Restorate is Optional but is really nice to have for faster PP espeically if you have queen veirra and its lv3 potential that like 100% + 80% and the gunslash shoot does 5(12~13) at 1st and 9(23~24) at 3rd shot. I don't know if TMG gear, High Time and Aerial Advance boost T-ATK so thats a question i want to know thou.

[Xanlarel]

I see that the last builds posted here are like 4-5 months old, so i dont know if they are still relevant(?).

Any gear\skill tree recommendations for Fo\Gu.

[Dephinix]

What are you planning to do, just ilbarta spam?

[Sandmind]

Gu/Fo if you want skill that also boost tech damage max Perfect Keeper, If you have TMG that has high rate T-ATK you can try Stylish Roll JA, PP Attack Restorate is Optional but is really nice to have for faster PP espeically if you have queen veirra and its lv3 potential that like 100% + 80% and the gunslash shoot does 5(12~13) at 1st and 9(23~24) at 3rd shot. I don't know if TMG gear, High Time and Aerial Advance boost T-ATK so thats a question i want to know thou.
TMG gear only boost R-atk. I can confirm that High Time does boost Tatk from back when I was messing around at end of EP2 and it didn't change since then. Aerial Advance work with every damage type, but have the Chase Advance syndrome of not/rarely mattering when it count. I would definetly get Atk PP restorate for it's PP management, especially if you're using T-atk TMG since you can regen your PP during Sroll. Deadline Automate is also an option to take after the relevant skills and Chain Stuff are taken.


I see that the last builds posted here are like 4-5 months old, so i dont know if they are still relevant(?).

Any gear\skill tree recommendations for Fo\Gu.

As Dephinix said, it depend of what you're planning to focus on.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%A8%E3%83%AC%E3%83%8C%E3%83%88%E3% 83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%BC
All class TMG from PSOes exclusive weapons. Costly, but the best/only option to main FOGU instead of GUFO and still have the option to use TMG as a casting weapon. Also has Dark Tech boosting latent.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%9E%E3%83%89%E3%82%A5%E3%83%A9%E3% 83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%83%B4%E3%82%A1%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B9
Probably the best option as GUFO who focus on casting with TMG, having both the highest Tatk and a fire tech latent. When subbing FO, if you're not using Talis and Photon Flare, you actually have enough spare SP to max both flame and Ice Mastery 1/2 and get 8 SP into Flame S Tech Charge.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%B6%E3%83%95%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B8%E3% 82%A7
Decent'ish Talis with Perfect Keeper latent for 9% damage boost that is GU and RA equipable.

Units wise, the usual for Tatk based characters apply here. Possibly less reliant on having a bigger PP pool.

[taizero00]

im using this talis atm with 16% ice latent technique all class accessible

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AD%E3%82%A2%E3%83%BC%E3% 83%AA%E3%82%B8%E3%82%A7

my FO/GU skill tree atm
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09oIbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm 0jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdOld2NgXI 2skcKhIdF0000jdBbsfHn2SGBeKlkGA000007oIn00000000Ib Io0000008doIb0000008
focus on ice technique. For Gunner skill tree you could take out dive roll relative points to max aerial advance. you will love the damage when you atk the flying mobs or using Razan with ground mobs

you are welcomed to check out my channel with my FO/GU demonstration videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3JxxvNWYxkhFcDC2ROl-dA