What is more absurd?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

partizan+vol graptor, or WL+holding surrent shenanigans on stunned bosses?

[Hexxy]

Vol + 2 slide ends (and maybe other pa's now) will beat that pretty easily and is easier to pull off. If there is any trash nearby, it also won't leave you very vulnerable.

[GALEFORCE]

Lol, I'm only learning about vol + slide end today. Wouldn't vol -> slide end -> assbuster be better to get the tech arts bonus twice?

[Xaelouse]

Holding current with zanverse
HU/BO master race

[UnLucky]

Lol, I'm only learning about vol + slide end today. Wouldn't vol -> slide end -> assbuster be better to get the tech arts bonus twice?
Or Speed Rain!

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Lol, I'm only learning about vol + slide end today. Wouldn't vol -> slide end -> assbuster be better to get the tech arts bonus twice?

Assuming Fi/Hu. I'm still doing Hu/Br because combat escape is for cowards (though seriously I haven't needed it much outside of occasional XQ solo) and I still like my katanas.

Though, after testing for hours I find myself gravitating to holding current just because of the PP cost (sometimes shit happens where I find myself without 68 PP/need to recover the 68PP after doing that once).

Wish I could better see the numbers holding current does rather than them flooding out of the target as if I was playing borderlands 2 as maya again.

Still on the fence.

[Hexxy]

Lol, I'm only learning about vol + slide end today. Wouldn't vol -> slide end -> assbuster be better to get the tech arts bonus twice?

Technically yeah, if you have FI you'll want to abuse that.

[Hexxy]

Found a ragne while running around and decided to take a look at the numbers I could pul. I didn't bother screenshotting because my hu equips are subpar and I have no hu gears in my tree. But just to get an idea. This is with br/hu.

Partisan (~2300 satk with a drink)
I used Vol Graptor + Slide End x2 on his weak point. Both Slide Ends did 34k. Vol did 104k. I MAY have missed the core with Vol itself, couldn't tell. Still, looking at around 172k here for 68 PP.

Wlance (A little over 2200 satk with drink)
Holding Current on ragne core. I don't know how many times it hits, but I averaged 5500. I lied, I did actually screencap this.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/ieyFabq.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
Edit: Looking at it again, in retrospect, I also may have missed the core here. LOL Sorry I can't aim :3

So 172k@68pp vs a flurry of 5500's@30pp. Also the time it took to do one holding current was the same as doing a full vol combo and then some.

Would really need someone to do this with actual good equips and gear up, but eh I tried.

Gah this was awful. When EQ is over I'll grab a proper tree and test this out for real (unless someone else gets to it first)

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Yeah you did miss the core xD

My stats are similar without the drink with both weapons. I've seen similar damage with vol->slide end x2 with gear. With bio WL's 8% JA, 2300ish s atk, and WL gear, I get a flood of 14ks and 8ks together if I use in on a weak point right. Almost feels like gwana gets roasted faster by the WLs somehow.

Holding current sorta behaves like hatou? Like there's a 'sweet spot' where the wire and the tip of the lances are in the weak point at the same time?

[Sanguine2009]

does holding current actually deal damage along the wire now instead of just at the tip? i have not used it recently.

[Hexxy]

does holding current actually deal damage along the wire now instead of just at the tip? i have not used it recently.

Yes. That's where the variance comes from basically.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Okay, more testing;

The higher of the two damage sources hits far more often. From here, I'll use JP wiki to fill in the blanks and say I got 10 hits of ~14k with 5 hits of 8.5k with two extra hits that i'm not even sure what they hit for...

Assuming I got the WLs from black vibras with the holding current potential, that's at least 200k from me as Hu/Br on an ideal weak point with gear. I guess I wasn't imagining gwanada melting faster to WLs.

So it really comes down to how and when. Partisans may not leave themselves open and immobile doing their combo, so it can be used against more enemies/opportunities but it costs more than twice the PP, and a misplaced attack = me being better off using shunka or sakura.

WLs don't have that problem since I could always throw in a second current before the boss recovers fully (might not be for full damage though, but still more than a partisan), but it has the hatou-hitbox thing going on, and it's slightly more situational than partisan's wombo combo.

edit: in the middle of my theorycraft I just realized I could do the same damage as that whole partisan combo with two shunkas as Hu/Br :/. Guess I'll ready WLs with the last day of PSO2's xmas week.

[SakoHaruo]

I thought partisan were overpowered, then I bought myself a 流星棍. >_>

The lack of skill required to pull absurd damage right out of your ass doesn't even compare. >_>

It's like have an infinite Deadly Archer with better... everything.


Oh and, since we're talking about partisans; with Trident +40 I can easily hit over 250k on Vol's horn as soon as he spawns in Sanctum TA.

[Achelousaurus]

I may need a Trident.
No.
I DO need a Trident.
I got a nice Helen but no potential anyway, so I might as well go for a Trident to get some ridiculous numbers.
Just hope I can afford one...and find some 11* for the passes so I don't have to waste a weapon I could sell for 400k again >_<

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Oh and, since we're talking about partisans; with Trident +40 I can easily hit over 250k on Vol's horn as soon as he spawns in Sanctum TA.

How? With the usual combo as Fi/Hu?

[Flaoc]

wait whats so special about meteor cudgel.. wouldnt the ancient oath double saber and bio double saber do even more damage

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

wait whats so special about meteor cudgel.. wouldnt the ancient oath double saber and bio double saber do even more damage

The gauge regen is a bit redic, and chaos riser hits for ~25k easily to everything in a huge radius at 3 bars. You could pretty much just go from spawn to spawn and one shot almost everything as long as you get to full gear first, which isn't hard because of that D saber's new potential. Anything still alive is knocked down, and pulled into illusion rave range. Enemies slightly further away from the attack will be pulled in from like a half a grid-block away.

[Flaoc]

The gauge regen is a bit redic, and chaos riser hits for ~25k easily to everything in a huge radius at 3 bars. You could pretty much just go from spawn to spawn and one shot almost everything as long as you get to full gear first, which isn't hard because of that D saber's new potential. Anything still alive is knocked down, and pulled into illusion rave range.

cudgel got a new potential? wish cirno would update

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

cudgel got a new potential? wish cirno would update

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E6%B5%81%E6%98%9F%E6%A3%8D

[Lumpen Thingy]

Holding current with zanverse
HU/BO master race

thats cute

[SakoHaruo]

How? With the usual combo as Fi/Hu?

I lied. It only does about 180k true damage on Vol. I was only able to reach 250k when someone else grabs aggro (which leaves Vol and most bosses in a neutral position) during TAs. So yeah, if you were to solo him and go straight for the horn before he can use any attacks you'd hit 180k right out the gate. Tilting his head back is what fucks it up.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

For what it's worth on bal rodos' mouth:

(2232 s atk 7% average stance) cetos proi, katana combat, 6 hatous-> finish ~641k damage

(2300 s atk 14% holding current) two holding currents in the same window of time with WL gear saved ~560k damage (280k per current with a bar of gear)

(2182 s atk) two vol graptor-> slide end x2 combos was ~460k with gear

This was done with no shifta drink, or any buffs at all as Hu/Br

Also, managed to fit in 3 full shunkas, and most of the 4th hit bal in the mouth for ~500k damage in the same window of time (each shunka was about 129k damage to his mouth).



Holding current deals more damage the fastest as well. Went back to gwanada. Can kill him in one stun phase with no major prior damage with two currents. I can't do the vol graptor combo twice before its body goes back under. Can't fit in that much damage with katanas no matter what I try in that small window either.

[Hexxy]

In a barebones situation yeah maybe. I'm guessing gears weren't involved in this? The real test now is doing it with common buffs going (drink, full gears, and shifta at most), because they significantly affect damage. Although WL gear provides a superior boost compared to partisan gear so no real change should happen there.

[Rien]

You know what's more absurd?

They nerfed bow animation speed so banishing arrow is not a thing anymore

[GALEFORCE]

Partisan doesn't compare too badly considering the lack of damage latent. I'm sure you could make up for the higher pp costs with ketos proi like you did with hatou. I'm glad I made myself one of those WLs during dudu christmas though.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

In a barebones situation yeah maybe. I'm guessing gears weren't involved in this? The real test now is doing it with common buffs going (drink, full gears, and shifta at most), because they significantly affect damage. Although WL gear provides a superior boost compared to partisan gear so no real change should happen there.

I had gearsup for all weapons, and used them (except I didn't bait my way to triggering katana gear).


Partisan doesn't compare too badly considering the lack of damage latent. I'm sure you could make up for the higher pp costs with ketos proi like you did with hatou. I'm glad I made myself one of those WLs during dudu christmas though.

Same here. Bonus points for black vibras' WL not looking out-of-place. Not enough classic photon weapon looks.

[UnLucky]

You know what's more absurd?

They nerfed bow animation speed so banishing arrow is not a thing anymore
You need more than WB+Banish+Final Nemsis?

[Rien]

Yep. Now you do.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Yep. Now you do.

Wait... explain. How did they mess with bow animation, and the resulting effect on the WB, banish arrow, final nemesis 360 no scope headshot of doom? :-?

[Rien]

They slowed down animations of the bow, stopping you from fitting two Final Nemesis into Banish Arrow's timespan.

Edit: They also slowed down Kamikaze Arrow as well so even though they buffed their PAs you don't see as much damage over time

[GALEFORCE]

I don't remember ever being able to last nemesis twice during banish arrow, and you can still get in 3 kamikazes during it. Not that KA is any good for ra/br or br/ra anyway. You can also just barely get off a charged normal after BA->LN, which does more damage than a KA headshot. It might even depend on range because of travel time.

On another note, they really need to make bullet save work with all weapons. I hate playing ra/gu and ra/br and not being able to use my TMGs or my bow because I'm afraid of losing my bullets.

[TaigaUC]

I never used bow that often, but I got two Nemesis during a Banish Arrow a few times a while back.
Then I suddenly found I couldn't do it anymore. This was before episode 3.

Haven't used bow much in episode 3 yet.
Didn't notice anything the last time I did (vs Apos Dorios).

[Rien]

I never used bow that often, but I got two Nemesis during a Banish Arrow a few times a while back.
Then I suddenly found I couldn't do it anymore. This was before episode 3.

Haven't used bow much in episode 3 yet.
Didn't notice anything the last time I did (vs Apos Dorios).

I myself have managed to get banish -> 2x nemesis right before episode 3 rolled in.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, I've been trying to do 2x Nemesis since the first few times I did it, but haven't figure out what changed.

Maybe it's something like... Banishing Shot has to be done from a long enough distance.
That way, you'd start Nemesis before Banishing Shot hits, gaining time for another Nemesis.
Perhaps it becomes impossible when using the new Charged Shot speed-up skill?

[Rien]

But last nemesis is not a charged attack

[TaigaUC]

I mean, Banishing Shot is/can be a charged attack.
If we gain time based on Banishing Shot's travel -> contact time to the target.
If Banishing Shot becomes faster, then we get less time to use two Nemesis.

It'd also explain why I was having trouble doing 2x Nemesis before Episode 3, as I was probably using Banishing Shot at close range.

[gigawuts]

Yes, that's the only way I was ever able to get in double last nemesis - be at long range when firing banish arrow, to gain time while the orb travels.

[GALEFORCE]

I'm pretty sure the banish arrow timer only starts counting down after your first hit anyway, so it wouldn't matter if you were able to buffer the first last nemesis animation during the banish arrow's travel time. Long range would help slightly because last nemesis itself has travel time, but it's pretty fast either way. After the first hit, you'll have a 3 second timer to get off the next LN. According to swiki, LN does take a little under 3 seconds to charge up and hit. The window is probably razor thin thanks to the delay from the first one.

[TaigaUC]

If that were true, wouldn't Banish Arrow's effect stay on targets indefinitely if you never hit the target?
That doesn't actually happen, as far as I can recall.

[GALEFORCE]

It lasts 10 seconds if you don't inflict damage on the BA'd enemy, but a separate 3 second timer starts as soon as you damage it. I think the 3 second timer overrides the 10 second cooldown if activated, but I'm not 100% sure. This is all on the swiki btw.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It lasts 10 seconds if you don't inflict damage on the BA'd enemy, but a separate 3 second timer starts as soon as you damage it. I think the 3 second timer overrides the 10 second cooldown if activated, but I'm not 100% sure. This is all on the swiki btw.

The countdown to detonation after the first hit overrides the initial mark duration completely. Doesn't matter if you hit the marked target immediately after banish lands, or 9 seconds later; after hitting the target you will have X seconds before it blows regardless.

[Rien]

...Which is what strikes me as odd about people talking about getting distance since the countdown starts the moment your first last nemesis hits so by right it shouldn't really matter assuming your aim is not off.

[Helvetica Standard]

regardless bow requires balance. It screams for it. Right now its use is one extreme or the other; either you go aggression and mow down mobs with Hu+stances and then get raped by the bosses or go technical and sub Ra+weak to insta kill bosses but get gang raped by mobs.

If Bow is going to be sold as good single target damage then at least its base damage requires a buff. It's too damn slow to be comfortable on any situation.

[KuroKanden]

well, on topic.

They each have their own uses, but more or less the same.

Vol grap + SE/AB/SR combo requires more time and precision to setup, tends to work better for idle targets.
HC works better for specific tasks, such as quickly breaking a boss' part while still dealing damage at the same time. Or demolishing a boss quickly in one go, such as SH gwana in TA.
HC also leaves you completely vulnerable during its animation whereas you can easily cancel out of a Vol and react on the fly.

[GALEFORCE]

regardless bow requires balance. It screams for it. Right now its use is one extreme or the other; either you go aggression and mow down mobs with Hu+stances and then get raped by the bosses or go technical and sub Ra+weak to insta kill bosses but get gang raped by mobs.

If Bow is going to be sold as good single target damage then at least its base damage requires a buff. It's too damn slow to be comfortable on any situation.

I wouldn't say bow br/hu is too bad against bosses, but I haven't played it since ep2. If they really wanted to buff it, buffing KA and dorito shooter would be the best bet, since ra/br can't make good use of those anyway.

Something ra/br needs is for some of its PAs to get the weak hit damage bonus on body shots. There are just too many enemies without easily accessible headshots for bow to be viable at mobbing. If penetrate arrow and gravity point got a ~3x damage increase vs body shots, it would go a long way towards helping ra/br's mobbing potential considering body shots currently do damage on par with enemies on hard mode.

[Achelousaurus]

Gotta say that Holding Current isn't very good.
Certainly strong now and compared to ep2 it's very useful but compared to all the ep3 buffs I don't find it that good.
Cause I got lvl 16 and a good WL (Crater Nails) but I have about 3200-3500 dmg per ticket.

Really pointless considering I got 2500-3000 dmg per tick on Kaiser Rise which I can spam from a massive distance, which is much faster and about 100 billion times safer.

And when I use Vol Graptor, well I can easily squeeze in 2 Slide Ends.
That's like 20k dmg with Holding Current and like 120-160k dmg with Vol graptor + 2 Slide Ends (each used on a Gwanahda's Belly, Slide End does 30-40k for me with Helen Pala...whatever it's called).

On a side End, how much more dmg can I expect from Assbuster 16?
Are the asses busted completely now?
I got lvl 15 and I do a little less dmg than Slide End considering both are charged but when uncharged it's barely half of Slide End.
Also, Assbuster has a habit of missing for no reason whatsoever.
I stand 1 body width away from the enemy, facing directly towards it with lock-on.
Still, Assbuster misses 4/10 times.

Slide End has a very nice aeo and if I am too close for a weakspot I can easily attack once for ja and turn around in time to hit my target AND a whole bunch of other enemies.
Atm I don't see any use for Assbuster besides traveling faster.

[milranduil]

...Which is what strikes me as odd about people talking about getting distance since the countdown starts the moment your first last nemesis hits so by right it shouldn't really matter assuming your aim is not off.

Because typically the idea is you normal attack after you banish and then Final Nemesis after so that Banish explodes momentarily after final nemesis hits.

Like this.
[spoiler-box]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ukG4CE9Cg
[/spoiler-box]

[RadiantLegend]

Your holding current shouldn't be that low. What's your setup?

[HeyItsTHK]

Gotta say that Holding Current isn't very good.
Certainly strong now and compared to ep2 it's very useful but compared to all the ep3 buffs I don't find it that good.
Cause I got lvl 16 and a good WL (Crater Nails) but I have about 3200-3500 dmg per ticket.

Really pointless considering I got 2500-3000 dmg per tick on Kaiser Rise which I can spam from a massive distance, which is much faster and about 100 billion times safer..

For one, your HC REALLY shouldn't be that low. What set up are you using with it?

For two, are you spacing your HC properly (make sure to hit with the tip), you'd get waaaay more damage (in terms of ticks) out of it that way, even with empty wired lance gear.

Kaiser is safer, but weaker and slower. It's honestly a when and where type of thing (in any cause I'd just use kaiser to fill gear. and heavenly fall & HC bosses)

[Hexxy]

HC is far from not very good. It's strong enough to one-shot any large enemy on a weak point grab, and you can use it at least twice on most stunned bosses to do several hundred k @ 60pp.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Gotta say that Holding Current isn't very good.
Certainly strong now and compared to ep2 it's very useful but compared to all the ep3 buffs I don't find it that good.
Cause I got lvl 16 and a good WL (Crater Nails) but I have about 3200-3500 dmg per ticket.

Really pointless considering I got 2500-3000 dmg per tick on Kaiser Rise which I can spam from a massive distance, which is much faster and about 100 billion times safer.

And when I use Vol Graptor, well I can easily squeeze in 2 Slide Ends.
That's like 20k dmg with Holding Current and like 120-160k dmg with Vol graptor + 2 Slide Ends (each used on a Gwanahda's Belly, Slide End does 30-40k for me with Helen Pala...whatever it's called).

On a side End, how much more dmg can I expect from Assbuster 16?
Are the asses busted completely now?
I got lvl 15 and I do a little less dmg than Slide End considering both are charged but when uncharged it's barely half of Slide End.
Also, Assbuster has a habit of missing for no reason whatsoever.
I stand 1 body width away from the enemy, facing directly towards it with lock-on.
Still, Assbuster misses 4/10 times.

Slide End has a very nice aeo and if I am too close for a weakspot I can easily attack once for ja and turn around in time to hit my target AND a whole bunch of other enemies.
Atm I don't see any use for Assbuster besides traveling faster.

You're not shocking with the tip.

[GALEFORCE]

Remember: just the tip.

[Achelousaurus]

.-.
damn it.

[Rien]

Gotta say that Holding Current isn't very good.
Certainly strong now and compared to ep2 it's very useful but compared to all the ep3 buffs I don't find it that good.
Cause I got lvl 16 and a good WL (Crater Nails) but I have about 3200-3500 dmg per ticket.

Really pointless considering I got 2500-3000 dmg per tick on Kaiser Rise which I can spam from a massive distance, which is much faster and about 100 billion times safer.

Kaiser Rise hits 5 times

Holding Current, if you get both the tip and the wire on the enemy, hits 17 times.

I think you can get about 3 Kaiser Rises in the span of one holding current which amounts to 15 hits

Holding Current still wins in pp efficiency, though if you're using holding current for non boss mobs then you're kinda doing it wrong to begin with (since they tend to die before it ends)

[Achelousaurus]

doingitwrong.jpg

I tried some more Holding Current now.
Sure, only tried on mobs but I got a bit over 5k per tick.
And I have some real trouble finding the right distance, if the difference between my 5k and the real dmg at the real tip is a few mm on screen, I gotta say ah, f*** it.
cause rather than prancing around to find the right distance which is as hard to get and as easy to break as BHS aoe, I rather do reliable damage.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Bumping this to ask, what's the most number of master shots/final nemesis you can fit into a banish arrow window at different ranges? Want to know to get an idea of how much PP I should re-affix to my crafted bow for things like cross-map-destroying VTOLs and darker particle beam towers using banish arrow combos in TD3. I figure that would make a good minimum.

Also...


doingitwrong.jpg

I tried some more Holding Current now.
Sure, only tried on mobs but I got a bit over 5k per tick.
And I have some real trouble finding the right distance, if the difference between my 5k and the real dmg at the real tip is a few mm on screen, I gotta say ah, f*** it.

It's hatou range from what I see (i think they even say this on the jp wiki). Play braver enough, and you can eyeball it with minimal prancing involved ;-)

[HeyItsTHK]

Well timed you can get 2 final nemesis' in there (nemesi?), otherwise you tend to get one. Master Shot I actually have no idea. I've only Kamikazed and Nemesis'd with Banish, not Master.

[final_attack]

Never tried 2x Final Nemesis for Banish .....
As far as I know, 1 Master Shot + 1 Last Nemesis is the most I can do at long range (I chose Master Shot for 1st PA because it maintains Standing Snipe, and I felt Master Shot travel slower than Nemesis ....... )

Edit : I haven't checked again with Charge Shot available. Will do it tomorrow at best, I think.

[Achelousaurus]

It's hatou range from what I see (i think they even say this on the jp wiki). Play braver enough, and you can eyeball it with minimal prancing involved ;-)
Yeah, I main braver and Hatou is quite epic.
But it's a hassle if you want to use it on bosses for kfc and get hits + damage.
KC makes you get up close and personal with the boss so you have to step back a bit for dmg.

BTW, how is the damage of Banish Arrow + Million Storm?
Is it worth using?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Never tried 2x Final Nemesis for Banish .....
As far as I know, 1 Master Shot + 1 Last Nemesis is the most I can do at long range (I chose Master Shot for 1st PA because it maintains Standing Snipe, and I felt Master Shot travel slower than Nemesis ....... )


I was considering leading with master shot->nemesis because of the slower projectile as you've said, and the much faster recovery after firing.



So getting off anything after 2 final nemesis/master shot+final nemesis with banish arrow is impossible?

[HeyItsTHK]

Yeah, I main braver and Hatou is quite epic.
But it's a hassle if you want to use it on bosses for kfc and get hits + damage.
KC makes you get up close and personal with the boss so you have to step back a bit for dmg

Step attack forwards or backwards to maintain position while you get the just attack for Hatou.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Tried bow combos with rockbear from as far as possible.

Doesn't seem like getting off more than one final nemesis is possible

Getting in 3 master shots is hit and miss (I think firing from as far as possible, and the walking to him while charging may be able to make 3 possible)

One master shot followed by final nemesis is easy

I might have missed a trick or something to possibly get two final nemesis in, or maybe something after master+nemesis. If I did, someone tell me.



One final nemesis does the damage of two master shots.

[Achelousaurus]

Step attack forwards or backwards to maintain position while you get the just attack for Hatou.
Yeah I know, stilla hassle compared to just standing/jumping in place and spam hatou outside of kc.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

So... never knew master shot/final nemesis damage falls by ~20% at near-max lockon range.

[UnLucky]

Every ranged attack's damage falls off passed a certain range.

Well, assuming it can actually hit something that far away in the first place.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Every ranged attack's damage falls off passed a certain range.

Well, assuming it can actually hit something that far away in the first place.

Well that makes... not alot of sense -_-. There's no reason for that when they already have range limits before the projectile just vanishes from existence.

[Kondibon]

Every ranged attack's damage falls off passed a certain range.

Well, assuming it can actually hit something that far away in the first place.What? Really?


Well that makes... not alot of sense -_-. There's no reason for that when they already have range limits before the projectile just vanishes from existence.Mech guns are the only ranged weapons that have their bullets not reach as far as you can target in the first place. I've hit enemies with my rifle that were outside the draw distance. What would be worse is if they couldn't even make it to that range.