How can I make launcher not miss?

[Achelousaurus]

And sometimes rifles, too.

So, launcher speed is so absurdly slow (on the ground) that half the time I can't even attack.
Sure, when it does actually hit the damage is very high and very nice and all.
But the problem is hitting in the first place.

I use lockon (limited ranger but at least that means I don't miss cause my aim sucks).

The point is with a launcher I often do not have the time for normal JA > PA.

Whether it's in an mpa where others steal all kills or solo where I got all the aggro and have to dodge a lot, I get interrupted at least half the time I try to use a PA.

When I was fighting Vardha for the 2nd ranger SPCO I was standing at the rear towards the right and shooting the side cannons and missile pods.
I got a lucky cluster bullet hit and took out everything but one missile pod.
After that there were literally 20 tries of me using JA > Divine Launcher / Cluster Bullet but not being able to.
Either I had to dodge a split second before using the PA or I got hit in that exact moment when I tried to get the PA just half a second before I got hit.

I just did TD1 on my ranger and I was standing on one of the raised areas and using Cluster Bullet / Divine Launcher but I rarely got any hits cause almost everything died before my ja > pa bullets hit the enemy.

How the hell do people get kills in mpas?

I always hear I should Cosmo Breaker into the ground for mobs, is that the only reliable way to deal good damage?

PS: Is there something to replace Sneak Shooter for good quick damage at a distance?
It's bullet travels at launcher speed and often misses, too.

PPS: even with lockon WB works very well, doesn't take long to get the right spot.

[horseship]

If you're just killing trash mobs, don't bother JAing Cluster Bullet or Divine Launcher. They do enough damage to OHKO most things without JA, especially if you have First Hit. First Hit is still useful in MPAs since you won't need the 20% bonus if someone else hits the enemy before you, unless they do like 1 damage or something.

You should almost always TPS Cluster Bullet if you don't want to miss. I use a controller and I have horrible aim, but you don't need to be very accurate with Cluster Bullet so it's not really a problem. I usually start the PA with auto target, then switch to TPS mode during the startup animation and adjust a bit so I can hit all of the mobs I want to. If you only use lock on, you'll probably have trouble clearing a lot of groups of mobs in one PA, and you'll never be able to hit moving targets.

Other mobbing PAs you can use besides Cluster and Cosmos Breaker are Rodeo Drive and Additional Bullet. Cluster Bullet should still be your main mobbing PA, but you'll find situations where other PAs work better.

Launcher normal attack is slow, but it was way slower in Episode 2. You'll just have to get used to it when you need to JA for damage.

As for rifle PAs, try Impact Slider for long distance damage, then use Homing Emission or Diffuse Shell once you get up close.

[Evangelion X.XX]

@Megidolaon:

Your Primary PA's will undoubtedly be Divine Launcher, Cluster Bullet, Cosmo Breaker, and sometimes Rodeo Dive.

(1) When using Launcher, you should ALWAYS be in TPS-Mode; I'm not exaggerating when I say this because TPS-Mode will allow you to have greater control of your shots, ESPECIALLY manually aiming for head-shots, or for killing mobs are "too near" or are "chasing after you" by performing a PA onto the ground its AoE Effect.

(2) When using Divine Launcher/Cluster Bullet, it's better to: Jump--> Normal Shot ---> JA into PA. Jumping makes it more difficult for enemies to interrupt your shots. When using Cosmo Breaker, however, I find that it's better to not jump, and to do the PA on the ground: faster this way.

(3) For mobbing:

(a) Far-Enemies: use Divine Launcher.

(b) Mid-Range Enemies: use Cluster Bullet/Divine Launcher/Additional Bullet or do a Cosmo-Breaker and then throw a Gravity-Grenade to suck enemies in. Gravity-Grenades/Stun-Grenades are in general great for mobbing, keeping enemies off of you, and getting back your PP (if you have the skill: "Tactics Trap", which I recommend).

(b) "In-Your-Face"/"Get-EFFIN'-OFF-of-Me"/Close-Range: You can Divine-Launcher-to-the-Ground-for-AOE-Effect and then Dive-Roll away. You can also Cosmo-Breaker to the Ground AND IMMEDIATELY Dive-Roll back to either toss a Gravity-Grenade, Divine Launcher, or Cluster Bullet... which makes for an awesome combo. And of course, you can just use Rodeo-Dive to get the hell away.... or simply toss a Gravity-Grenade/Stun-Grenade to the ground and get the hell away....


Note:

Divine-Launcher will be your Default-to-go-to-Launcher-PA since it can hit at any range: it's kind of like Gunner's "Infinite-Fire" that can be used in all/any situation. Also, best used when Jumping (JA'd, of course). So when in doubt, Divine-Launcher.

Cluster Bullet wreaks havoc, but it's important to remember that it's ONLY a mid-range PA.

Cosmo Breaker should be used primarily at Close Range and for mobbing only since it's slow as hell. Remember to Cosmo-Breaker to the ground and then immediately Dive-Roll back/away.

Additional Bullet gets a worthy mention. Why? Because it hits hardest when you're a Ranger, it's faster than launcher when you're in a pinch, and it's all around great for mobbing. But of course, you have to be in TPS mode.

Using just Divine Launcher and Cluster Bullet in an MPA, you should be able to annoy the melee classes by obliterating mobs of enemies before they get to them.

TPS mode isn't always necessary when using Rifles, in fact sometimes, it's better to not use it especially when placing a WB. However, for using Launcher, TPS-Mode is absolutely crucial.

Also instead of using Sneak Shooter long range, I recommend that you use Impact Slider instead: it's faster and hits harder.

In general: Rifles -----> Bossing. Launcher -----> Mobbing.

The most efficient way to kill Vardha is NOT to destroy every single part but instead to go directly for the kill. Use Rifle. Place a WB on Vardha's primary-big-center gun----> JA Homing Emission to put it out of commission and to open up its breast plate exposing the core. After that, WB ----> JA Homing Emmision on Core for quick Boss kill.

And as for making "launchers not miss", and rifles too for that matter, I think the main thing is is just to play Ranger for a while so that you can get used to how it works, which takes some time. When I first started playing Ranger, it felt slow, clumsy, and boring as all hell since I started off as melee. But that's only because I didn't really understand how the class functioned, or how to use the given PA's given the situation. Also, when I first started, being in TPS-Mode the majority of the time felt really weird. I also had to master WB ----> HE which was awkward at first but with practice it isn't so difficult. But yeah, I think the main thing is to just play the class for a while, and then before you know it, everything will just come naturally. Once you master Ranger though, this class is seriously like God-Tier.... no lie.

[Sanguine2009]

why do people still recommend divine launcher? its weaker and more expensive to use than concentrate one with similar mobbing ability.

[GALEFORCE]

I like both divine launcher and concentrate one. DL is sometimes useful for its larger radius, but CO lets you disperse your damage better. The latter is great if you're TPSing headshots, but DL is preferred for nuking (where cluster bullet doesn't get the job done, anyway). It's pretty dandy getting a DL headshot on a group of the shironia giants and seeing them all drop.

[UnLucky]

I use lockon
There's your problem. Locking on means your shots will always be late and your misses won't hit the ground for easy splash damage unless you're in the air.


why do people still recommend divine launcher? its weaker and more expensive to use than concentrate one with similar mobbing ability.
Because it's faster. It gets its damage out in one shot, whereas CO needs to fire twice more.

If each individual shot in the triple burst can individually kill things, sure. But if you need at least 2 hits then DL is better.

[DrCatco]

Since the introduction of Gravity Bomb, mobbing with launchers has been a dream to me. It's Zondeel for rangers! I prefer to change to TPS, throw a GB at the site where I think the mobs wil move, and then use Cosmos Breaker, Cracket Bullet, or even Zero Distance or Flame Bullet I f I feel a little pyromaniac that day :-P TPS mode it's important when using launcher, because with some practice and experience you can guess where the mobs are moving before they do so.

For Big Vardha, I prefer to destroy those annoying missile pods first, putting myself at the rear, looking up and and then I let autolock do its job while I destroy them. From that, you're pretty much free to do what you want.

[Achelousaurus]

Thanks a lot, especially to Evangelion.

Well, I don't use TPS mode except in rare situations, so I guess my launcher will always be gimped.
It requires switching to mouse and the transition is far too slow unless enemies are far away and I am in no danger whatsoever.

Especially cause I have the choice between gamepads that don't allow to dash during lockon or gamepads that have no vertical axis support for right stick, so I cannot aim up or down this way.

I guess I will try to become a pro at jump jaing then.

PS: the Vardha I was destroying parts of was King Vardha and I wanted to get some King 10* weapons and units.

[horseship]

I believe you lose standing snipe when you use launcher PAs in the air. Although you can keep it with Additional Bullet for some reason. I think it has to do with vertical movement, not exactly sure. It came up in the fighter thread a while ago.

Not being able to dash while locked on sounds like sounds like your dash and lock on buttons are on the same axis (triggers I'm guessing). I use a 360 pad and don't have this problem because I use L1 for lock on and R2 to dash. Try remapping your controls, since TPSing is quite important for using launcher.

I used to hate TPSing myself (I still do), but eventually I got sick of missing all of my launcher shots. Like I said before, you don't have to be accurate at all. Divine and Cluster have giant hitboxes. Just enter TPS mode as you start up the PA, adjust a bit, then exit right after. It's that easy.

Now with rifle, you do have to be accurate while using TPS mode. You can get by without it for the most part, but it's useful for hitting some weak points you can't lock onto. De Malmoth and Biol Meduna are two bosses where I find it pretty useful. Of course, you don't have to bop them in one Satellite Cannon, but I find it pretty satisfying when I can pull it off. Killing them with lock on works fine too.

[Z-0]

why do people still recommend divine launcher? its weaker and more expensive to use than concentrate one with similar mobbing ability.
Divine Launcher is stronger because First Hit will apply to all of its damage, rather than just one third of it.

[Sanguine2009]

Divine Launcher is stronger because First Hit will apply to all of its damage, rather than just one third of it.

and first hit is useless 90% of the time, thats hardly a selling point.

[LonelyGaruga]

First Hit is great for one-shotting many enemies, what are you talking about?

[Sanguine2009]

you one shot them either way as long as you dont have shit gear and its useless on bosses, not to mention other players break it.

[horseship]

You won't need the damage bonus to finish off the enemy if someone else breaks your first hit. First hit helps with non JA OHKOs and getting those might be a bit harder once cluster bullet gets nerfed.

[LonelyGaruga]

you one shot them either way as long as you dont have shit gear and its useless on bosses, not to mention other players break it.

I don't think you understand. First Hit helps you one-shot a lot of mobs that you otherwise couldn't even with excellent gear, and with more attacks than otherwise possible, enabling greater versatility and faster kills. You know Ra/Hu one-shotting mobs with Assault Buster is a thing because of First Hit, right? Being less useful against bosses is not a point against it, and what else would you take instead of First Hit? Not seeing anything better.

Other players breaking it is basically the same thing as saying Zondeel is bad because people can detonate it. It isn't a good point against it. It works fine in solo play, TAs, TD, 4 player parties, basically anything that isn't a generic braindead MPA where the only goal is to vaporize everything on sight. Not a problem.

[Sanguine2009]

I don't think you understand. First Hit helps you one-shot a lot of mobs that you otherwise couldn't even with excellent gear, and with more attacks than otherwise possible, enabling greater versatility and faster kills. You know Ra/Hu one-shotting mobs with Assault Buster is a thing because of First Hit, right? Being less useful against bosses is not a point against it, and what else would you take instead of First Hit? Not seeing anything better.

Other players breaking it is basically the same thing as saying Zondeel is bad because people can detonate it. It isn't a good point against it. It works fine in solo play, TAs, TD, 4 player parties, basically anything that isn't a generic braindead MPA where the only goal is to vaporize everything on sight. Not a problem.

the difference between zondeel and first hit is its easy for other players to avoid detonating zondeel assuming they are not totally awful players who run bolt forces where there is no reason to but they have to sit and do nothing to not break first hit. its a poorly designed skill much like break stance. it is effective soloing and potentially useful in some 4m groups(depending on who ya play with) but in large mpas(including TD) its not reliable.

not to mention you either have to JA off crazy smash killing your PP efficiency even more, use tps to purposely miss a shot to JA off lowering divine launchers speed advantage a bit, or not JA it all killing any advantage it had in damage.

back to CO vs DL even when taking into account first hit being active CO with first hit would do similar damage to DL with first hit due to doing that much more to start with. the only real advantage DL has is execution speed of the attack which is great when you have the PP to spare and it manages to kill it in that one shot but any other time CO is more efficient. CO is also more reliable at mid to long range due to allowing you to correct your aim for the 2nd or 3rd shells if you miss the first and is more effective vs spread out groups for the same reason.

[LonelyGaruga]

You just gave a decent argument for using Divine Launcher in your last paragraph, so I'm not really seeing your point. Speed matters, Divine Launcher can get kills faster than Concentrate One, therefore Concentrate One does not outclass Divine Launcher and people would recommend Divine Launcher, since efficiency is good and Divine Launcher is efficient at what it does. In other words, I see no point in contending this further. If you want to insist Concentrate One is completely superior to Divine Launcher and the latter PA is useless, prove it.

Not really interested in teaching you how to play a class you should already understand, so I'm just gonna ask you to keep your bad advice away from players that need advice from people that have a more thorough understanding of the class.

[UnLucky]

If someone else is attacking your mobs yet aren't killing them then you're playing with noobs.

You should each individually be able to oneshot (or clear faster than that through actual teamwork)

Like, every class should have the first hit on their own target. You engage, you kill, otherwise you're just leeching.

[Sanguine2009]

If someone else is attacking your mobs yet aren't killing them then you're playing with noobs.

You should each individually be able to oneshot (or clear faster than that through actual teamwork)

Like, every class should have the first hit on their own target. You engage, you kill, otherwise you're just leeching.

in an ideal world yeah, however unless you only play with pre made MPAs thats not always the case. you cant trust randoms to always be effective, even in good blocks.


You just gave a decent argument for using Divine Launcher in your last paragraph, so I'm not really seeing your point. Speed matters, Divine Launcher can get kills faster than Concentrate One, therefore Concentrate One does not outclass Divine Launcher and people would recommend Divine Launcher, since efficiency is good and Divine Launcher is efficient at what it does. In other words, I see no point in contending this further. If you want to insist Concentrate One is completely superior to Divine Launcher and the latter PA is useless, prove it.

Not really interested in teaching you how to play a class you should already understand, so I'm just gonna ask you to keep your bad advice away from players that need advice from people that have a more thorough understanding of the class.

divine has its purposes just like concentrate does, for what TC was asking concentrate one is more reliable.
concentrate one is more efficient in situations where pp efficiently, raw damage, or long range accuracy matter. when divine cant one shot, you need to attack moving targets from long range, or against targets that are spread out enough that divine's AOE wont cover them concentrate one is better.

[LonelyGaruga]

And on the other hand actually competent players and organized parties are having no difficulty getting people to cooperate and taking advantage of game mechanics that are ruined by poor party planning.

Don't see your point here.

EDIT: That isn't what you were saying before.


why do people still recommend divine launcher? its weaker and more expensive to use than concentrate one with similar mobbing ability.

=/=


divine has its purposes just like concentrate does, for what TC was asking concentrate one is more reliable.

[Sanguine2009]

And on the other hand actually competent players and organized parties are having no difficulty getting people to cooperate and taking advantage of game mechanics that are ruined by poor party planning.

Don't see your point here.

that's true, however im just saying that's not always the case. while its possible for randoms to be decent enough and great when you can organize MPAs that's not always the case/not always possible. even one less than competent player or troll can ruin the whole thing and its not rare to find at least a few in a random MPA. its also not always possible to organize MPAs due to a variety of reasons. its best to prepare for the worst rather than rely on things that require ideal circumstances to be effective and can be spoiled by players playing normally.



EDIT: That isn't what you were saying before.

"why do people still recommend divine launcher? its weaker and more expensive to use than concentrate one with similar mobbing ability."

"the only real advantage DL has is execution speed of the attack"

"divine has its purposes just like concentrate does, for what TC was asking concentrate one is more reliable.
concentrate one is more efficient in situations where pp efficiently, raw damage, or long range accuracy matter. when divine cant one shot, you need to attack moving targets from long range, or against targets that are spread out enough that divine's AOE wont cover them concentrate one is better."

looks pretty consistent to me. or at least i dont see any direct contradictions.

edit: to clarify what im saying. im not saying concentrate one is 100% superior, its just a better general purpose PA while divine launcher is more specialized. both have their jobs.

[LonelyGaruga]

Preparing for the worst at the cost of efficiency is never a good idea when it comes to arguing about efficiency and has no relevance to arguments regarding high level play. Players can and do things that violate every level of common sense. Planning around them just hurts your maximum efficiency to make bad runs slightly less bad, and every run without bad players in it worse than it could have been. That doesn't make sense to do.

There's no direct contradiction, but from the context of your first post, it appeared you were suggesting Divine Launcher was something that shouldn't be recommended, that its disadvantages compared to Concentrate One while carrying similar mobbing capabilities made it outclassed by Concentrate One, and thus not something to recommend. Going from that to saying it has uses is completely different, especially when your given uses for Divine Launcher were already stated by other people as an argument for its usefulness, when it would have made the most sense to clarify that you were not actually calling Divine Launcher useless, just more specialized than Concentrate One. Since you didn't do that when it made the most sense to do so, it does look like you're contradicting yourself, even if that's not actually the case.

Either way, you should have just said what you meant in the first place, but at least everything is clarified now.