New pot on God Hand

[SamuraiBooma1]

Can anyone help me out and translate this pot for me? i'd like to know what it does before i regrind it lol

http://imgur.com/ROLEgDF

Edit: i'm new to forums and don't know how to post the pic on this post -_-; (right clicking and showing image in new tab work tho)

[Flaoc]

Can anyone help me out and translate this pot for me? i'd like to know what it does before i regrind it lol

http://imgur.com/ROLEgDF

backhand smash potential

[SamuraiBooma1]

Thank you!

[Hrith]

Just like Ely Sion got Over End, hmm. Now if only they had not nerfed Backhand Smash :< That one really did not deserve a nerf -_-;

[Dephinix]

It deserved it, just didn't deserve that big of one. Or at least reduce it's pp cost to compensate, like wow Sega.

[Z-0]

Backhand Smash never got a nerf. Its displayed number did get reduced, but SEGA specifically stated there was no change in power.

[Dephinix]

I do less damage with it. Ok, let's all correct it, everything else got buffed and it got left in the dust. Dropping from 36k to 27k is a pretty big difference.

[LonelyGaruga]

Backhand Smash was not nerfed, any more than Il Foie or Namegid was (and their notations were halved).

Power notations were not always accurate to what the attack did. Backhand Smash was one of those cases. The power notation displayed 20% more than it actually did in practice. After the EP3 update, Backhand Smash's displayed power notation was reduced by 20% in order to actually match what it did. The damage it did in practice was never touched.

It's been how many months, and there are people that still think it was nerfed? Incredible.

[Bellion]

BHS never got nerfed; Fury Stance did. Since a majority of Fi players go for Fi/Hu, well, you know how it is.

Br/Hu or Hu/Br players currently using Hatou/Shunka are pretty much dealing with the same thing.

[Walkure]

http://i.imgur.com/zQJdw0b.png

Oh cool it's 20% mod too.

Power notations were not always accurate to what the attack did. Backhand Smash was one of those cases. The power notation displayed 20% more than it actually did in practice. After the EP3 update, Backhand Smash's displayed power notation was reduced by 20% in order to actually match what it did. The damage it did in practice was never touched.
It has a 25% mod with max gear. Which means that you had to basic attack two times after jumping or starting an attack in order to BHS at the previous notation if you don't have Knuckle Gear Boost. With Knuckle Gear Boost you go straight to max gear with the first step attack or jump to basic attack then PA. So now unless you're getting hit without a flinch (poison, burn, or area hazards), then you have it up all the time.

Honestly that notation change made it less informative than it was previously, and it's such a big misconception that swiki has in red letters "No this did not get nerfed, there is a damage mod on it that they decided not to account for in the notation, calm down".

[Dephinix]

BHS never got nerfed; Fury Stance did. Since a majority of Fi players go for Fi/Hu, well, you know how it is.

Br/Hu or Hu/Br players currently using Hatou/Shunka are pretty much dealing with the same thing.

Exactly, and it's amazing how some people still don't understand that when people say it was "nerfed". If Fury went from 85% total down to 60% total, and brave only increased by 5%, that would mean BHS should have lost 20% power, no? I mean, everything else was buffed to accommodate for the Fury stance nerf while, like these two also said, BHS was left alone. Did it's power output change? No, not the PA itself, but while every other PA is doing more, it is doing less after the stance danges. Does that really not make sense to more than us?

[Walkure]

Exactly, and it's amazing how some people still don't understand that when people say it was "nerfed". If Fury went from 85% total down to 60% total, and brave only increased by 5%, that would mean BHS should have lost 20% power, no?Be a cool kid and use Limit Break. Problem solved!


I mean, everything else was buffed to accommodate for the Fury stance nerf while, like these two also said, BHS was left alone. Did it's power output change? No, not the PA itself, but while every other PA is doing more, it is doing less after the stance danges. Does that really not make sense to more than us?Backhand Smash currently out-DPS's any orange weapon PA. Now you also don't need to basic attack twice to get the full damage off the first BHS, which was actually a pretty big annoyance for a PA that NEEDs to get into spot-on position, usually requiring a jump, on a weapon that loses gear instantly for jumping.

It's limiting factor is and has been the PP cost. Other weapons could do a bit less damage over time (15-20%) but in return spend a fraction of the PP cost pound-per-pound. This limits BHS to bursting down breakables or a weak bullet'd weakpoint. Just giving it a lower PP cost would help a bit, but it could easily turn into players using BHS whenever possible if it's too decent at PP usage.

With the recent changes give it a pretty solid niche as a bursty PA that's good on fragile mobs and breakables. Problem is that said niche is kinda going to fade away for a bit with XH and UQ HP walls until power creep and better playing makes new mobs relatively fragile again.

[Dephinix]

Fi/Hu not using Limit Break? Madness! Just sucks that kinda becomes a dependent solution.
I agree completely though, and that's all I bother to use it for. I definitely wouldn't want it falling under 35pp though, 40 seems good enough.

[Lego]

I find ducking blow to Be better then BHS does like 75% of the dmg of BHS

[Dephinix]

Takes longer to throw out, but I do have it set right after BHS for bosses. I even liked Pendulum Roll and Flash Thousand a bit after PA changes, but both take a while and that means wasted pp and damage from having to dodge. =/

[red1228]

I've always preferred Flash Thousand over BackHand Smash for big damage (when it comes to knuckles anyway). I make no delusion to say it has better DPS, but BHS is far too finicky with its positioning / hitbox & I already have to deal with that shit using Brave & Wise Stance (not as big of a deal solo, but I'm not here to play an MMO by myself). :nono:

Sega needs to adjust BHS's reach to actually match the weapon model (or hell, include that OBVIOUS shockwave coming out of your hand when you use BHS) so that we don't end up wasting 45pp because we were an inch away from BHS's deceptive hitbox.:argh:

[LonelyGaruga]

It has a 25% mod with max gear

Wait what.

Is this just Backhand Smash or is it present on other Knuckle PAs? I was under the impression that Knuckle Gear had no effect beyond increasing the speed of PAs.


Exactly, and it's amazing how some people still don't understand that when people say it was "nerfed". If Fury went from 85% total down to 60% total, and brave only increased by 5%, that would mean BHS should have lost 20% power, no? I mean, everything else was buffed to accommodate for the Fury stance nerf while, like these two also said, BHS was left alone. Did it's power output change? No, not the PA itself, but while every other PA is doing more, it is doing less after the stance danges. Does that really not make sense to more than us?

It makes sense, but it makes more sense to say "BHS was nerfed because Fury Stance was nerfed", and not simply "BHS was nerfed". If you play Fi/Br for whatever reason, as an example, BHS was actually buffed by 10%. Now of course most people play Fi/Hu, but the nerf was to Fury Stance. BHS not getting buffed to compensate is an indirect nerf. It's a qualifier that completely changes the meaning of the statement.

[milranduil]

Wait what.

Is this just Backhand Smash or is it present on other Knuckle PAs? I was under the impression that Knuckle Gear had no effect beyond increasing the speed of PAs.


I'm not sure if it had some subtle change with Ep3 for other knuckle PAs, but knuckle gear level has always increased BHS's power despite the description for knuckle gear not mentioning any kind of power increase. #sega

[NexusAZ]

Wait what.

Is this just Backhand Smash or is it present on other Knuckle PAs? I was under the impression that Knuckle Gear had no effect beyond increasing the speed of PAs.


It always has(at least as long as I've been playing). A couple of Knuckle PAs get a full gear bonus. Quake Howling gets greater AoE FOR ALL DA STUNZ.

[Dephinix]

I do less damage with it. Ok, let's all correct it, everything else got buffed and it got left in the dust. Dropping from 36k to 27k is a pretty big difference.

LonelyGaruga, upon this statement, did you still assume that I said it was nerfed? I stated it did less damage while everything else was buffed, mostly likely because of Fury Stance's nerf. People constantly mention, "Its displayed number did get reduced, but SEGA specifically stated there was no change in power", but that never had any affect on the mentioning of less damage. It's ignorance met with ignorance. One party neglects the fact it does less with Fi/Hu(still the best, imo, for using fighter weapons), while the other mistakenly called it a nerf. Nerf or not, it got no compensation while most other PAs, if not all, did.

Most people don't care to explain further why, and I respect you for that, but so many others just look at face value and half ass it, hence this argument.

[wefwq]

Be a cool kid and use Limit Break. Problem solved
Have fun playing with ultimate diablos

[LonelyGaruga]

I'm not sure if it had some subtle change with Ep3 for other knuckle PAs, but knuckle gear level has always increased BHS's power despite the description for knuckle gear not mentioning any kind of power increase. #sega

Oh, so like how Sacred Skewer (and Vol Graptor I guess?) was the only Partisan PA pre-EP3 that had its damage buffed by Partisan Gear. OK, thanks.


LonelyGaruga, upon this statement, did you still assume that I said it was nerfed?

Sorry, I was making a blanket statement about what people usually say, which is typically saying that BHS itself was nerfed. You're right, it didn't apply to you, but I said nothing of the sort to indicate that was the case. What you said is quite simply the truth, nothing more and nothing less. Sorry to have implied I thought you meant otherwise, I overlooked that mistake.


Have fun playing with ultimate diablos

Time and place for everything.

[Nitro Vordex]

If you use TD, Limit Break is okay on Diablos.

[Walkure]

I find ducking blow to Be better then BHS does like 75% of the dmg of BHSShouldn't it be 55% at max gear? Ducking Blow is still cool for invulnerability while attacking, though.


Takes longer to throw out, but I do have it set right after BHS for bosses. I even liked Pendulum Roll and Flash Thousand a bit after PA changes, but both take a while and that means wasted pp and damage from having to dodge. =/Flash Thousand doesn't offer anything over Pendulum Roll right now. It actually has slightly lower power at L17, takes slightly longer, it doesn't have those Ep3 invulnerability frames, and it costs a lot more PP. The only reason to use it would be to Tech Arts chain it with Pendulum.

If you're chaining between two rather-lengthy PAs, then you're probably banking on not being interrupted for a while. Knuckle has terrible PP usage in general, and those two PAs have low damage over time to where you'd want to switch weapons for better damage over time, better damage for PP spent, or both. FI/HU has a huge arsenal; use the right tool for the job.


One party neglects the fact it does less with Fi/Hu(still the best, imo, for using fighter weapons), while the other mistakenly called it a nerf. Nerf or not, it got no compensation while most other PAs, if not all, did.
I don't get bold. The problem with fighter weapons isn't that another class can use them better.

You want to see a weapon that's had the world pass it by for bossing? Look no further than Double Saber. Still balanced around Chase Advance and that hurts it so much against bosses. Uncharged Deadly Archer's DpS is now like at the lowest standard for "decent single-target damage" and has sub-standard PP usage.

You really only see people use it on bosses when they're out of PP, or just for funsies.

Have fun playing with ultimate diablos
If you're in a situation where BHS would work well, you'd also really want to Limit Break to put more leverage into it. If you don't want to Limit Break, you also probably don't want to BHS.

BHS is already "risky" all-in gameplay. It's a commit to either being able to leave enough PP to follow up with a different attack style after breaking something, or outright kill the boss before you run out of PP entirely. If you don't accomplish either then you've usually hamstrung yourself pretty badly anyways even if you landed all of your smashes on your target point. Limit Break helps with both the damage requirements to do either of those, and Crazy Heart helps with following up after a break animation.

[TaigaUC]

JP friend who has detailed knowledge of the game's mechanics told me Backhand Smash wasn't nerfed, I trust them.
I probably didn't realize it was the Fury Stance nerf that affected it. Multipliers make a massive difference.

That being said, I'm back to using BHS in combination with Limit Break + Crazy Heart for the faster PP regen.
It hits somewhat harder than Ducking Blow, but the cost is much higher. With high PP regen, it's the better choice for higher DPS.
When I'm not using Limit Break, I use Ducking Blow and Slide Upper.

[GoldenFalcon]

Why not use like Slide Upper before Backhand Smash for the Arts Combo?

[Achelousaurus]

I compared Ducking Blow and BHS damage with or without weakpoint, Duck Blow is always 90-95% of the BHS damage.

[Walkure]

Well what the fuck, did Ducking Blow get a secret and huge-ass modifier then?

Comparing L16 to L16, both with max gear on Tunnels Exploration mobs.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/xTPClNV.png
http://i.imgur.com/bi7rgRh.png
I still got a Fire PSE effect so numbers aren't perfect, but that's still a huge gap.
[/SPOILER-BOX]Guess not? L17 to L17 should be the same, since they both get 15.6% increases.

Are you guys, by chance, comparing L17 Ducking Blow to L16 BHS without building up gear first? Or either of those individually?

[TaigaUC]

Why not use like Slide Upper before Backhand Smash for the Arts Combo?

I've been thinking of doing that. I haven't fully integrated Arts Combo into my setup yet.

Oh, I also wanted to say that Quake Howling is much more viable as a mobbing tool with the instant level 3 gear.


Are you guys, by chance, comparing L17 Ducking Blow to L16 BHS without building up gear first? Or either of those individually?

AFAIK I still only have level 16 of those. I always try to get gear to level 3 when I use knuckle PAs.

[Achelousaurus]

When ep 3 was new I compared lvl 16 / lvl 14 many times and it was always very close.
Does BHS lvl 16 have a huge dmg boost?

[Hrith]

Wait what.

Is this just Backhand Smash or is it present on other Knuckle PAs? I was under the impression that Knuckle Gear had no effect beyond increasing the speed of PAs.It also increases the range of some PAs. Knuckles Gear has been around for over two years, and there are still people who do not know that.

[LonelyGaruga]

Just overlooked it. Messed around with Knuckles a bit just to see how it works, saw that, forgot about it.

Sorry, I kinda tend to forget the really obvious stuff, because who doesn't know that already?

[Walkure]

It's easy to forget those facets on PAs when:

It's gear-dependent and gear is only lost for some small moments
It's on a PA that is very rarely useful, and people tend to not bother even when it is.
Even when you use the PA, it's rare when the effect is truly noticeable.

Quake Howling's AoE bonus is like all of those. It gains like 1-1.5m radial distance (which is like almost double the range), but all I really never utilized that whenever I used it so it usually flits out of my mind until it gets mentioned somewhere. Even when I had it slotted, it was usually the third slot so I was always at max gear by coincidence.

[Nitro Vordex]

Quake Howling needs stun in ultimate, otherwise it's dumb.