How to fo, how about this tree and what about rods?

[Achelousaurus]

I haven'd done much casting yet and thought I'd try it a bit more seriously with more than junk 7* weapons while doing dailies in hard mode.
My fo is lvl 51 and my te is 53 and before I know if I like fo enough for multiple trees, I'd rather try a generalist tree and a single good rod:

Photon Flare build (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09fbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIk0 jdodBdojJkdBGX2SIOcK7n000000doInJ0000000idoib00000 00fdo000000jdBbniN2SGB2XdxitfbFIn00000ioInidIndnGA dBIkcKGNGNIn000009bIo0000008doIb0000008)

No Flare (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09fbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIk0 jdodBdojJkdBGX2SIOcK7n000000doInJ0000000idoib00000 00fdo000000jdBbniN2SGBIkGAdqIxdnIXIo00000ioInidInd nGAdBIkcKGNGNIn000009bIo0000008doIb0000008)

Which would you prefer? or rather a different generalist build?
And what weapon? I thought about Rabbit Wand for flare build but not sure what to get for other builds.

Also, any tips for casting?

[lnvisible]

The no flare build looks good for a safe no need to reset build. It won't be as much damage as a specialized build obviously but you won't need to keep resetting depending on currently spammed content.

For a good allround rod go for something that has the boost to elemental weakness latents like esca hermes or whatever if you're running a general build. I'd go for an element like light on that since there's darkers everywhere so you would at least get full damage for that.

As for casting tips just try to get used to the timing of charging and JA'ing. I personally find jumping helps alot because of the differing charge times of techs. Try to keep distance if applicable, I've seen so many forces be up a mobs ass casting a tech they could cast from miles away. Also, force isn't all about pewpew and screw everyone else. Use resta and buff frequently, it helps everyone around you. You can literally resta carry some groups while still doing some damage. As someone that plays every class, when I'm on a class besides FO or TE it really helps when there's a caster healing frequently. I see less deaths and I'm able to be a bit more reckless to push out some more damage.

[illidelph]

imo: as a force you are either optimal SOME of the time, or sub-optimal ALL of the time

generalist force will be adding static boosts to all elements, but that 400-500 t-atk will not amount to much later on since each mastery is multiplicative and multiplies with itself, so 120%*120%=144% or 1.44 damage modifier and if you have say 2500 t-atk an extra 400 will only be a 16% or 1.16 modifier. so if you only want to get only techer elements or squeeze in ice and spam them as a force main, then photon flare is awesome since it will make your masteries and shifta that much better. otherwise matching elements for mastery and weakness is always going to be the way to go. especially so when you consider force's element convert that gives a 1.25 modifier if you have 50 wep attribute in the element you are casting.

so this brings us to the rods and other force weps. since element convert will be contributing A LOT to your matching element, it makes sense to go for the elemental potential rods and talises or wands for casting techs ALWAYS. the problem with ancient oath that i see is that if you cant match an element to the enemy, you will lose ancient oath, but will still retain the % element damage bonus of an element boosting rod. for example:

if i bring the new 12* dragon rod with ancient oath and 50 ice and nepto rod with 50 ice and 16% ice damage boost potential to the facility and start spamming ice all around they will be about even. however if darkers show up i will lose the ancient oath if i keep spamming ice on them, while retaining nepto rod's ice boost, so overall nepto rod and other elemental rods will have higher damage over time. i could cast light techs with the dragon rod but that will cut my element convert from 1.25 to 1.125 and also by 1.44 if i dont have light mastery. so then the best fo/te weps by element are:

fire: bert rodan rod and koushousen talis
ice: nepto rod and bio talis (since there is no ice boosting talis) or elysion for il/nabarta or Rikauteri bow for ice fo/br (banish arrow + ilbarta with full weak and ice mastery is yummy, but the ancient oath potenital means non-ice enemies wont be as weak)
lightning: satellite riser and bio talis (no lightning boosting talis, ja bonus is next best thing or can have lighting Rika bow for fo/br as well, like lighting bow falz killer?)
wind: stark katze or green duel gaze
light: caduceus or gadianna
dark: weddle park or seimei kikami

i mention the talises even though i never use them because the talis bonus is so good that it will outdamage rods although its harder to play with and im horrible with them

so IDEALLY you would have 4 trees for fo and 3 for te, 1 for each element and 1 generalist force photon flare tree. you then would play your ice force tree with a braver sub for Rika bow fo/br and ice/wind fo/te with elysion or something like that. thats why the joke is that forces are for rich premium kids, since they are LITERALLY better with multiple trees and elemental potential rainbow of weps that are super annoying to find and convert to the right element.

i would go as far as say that for force its worth it to spec your trees around your available elemental weapons since force's damage more than any other class is dictated by your wep and its element. if you ever cant afford or find a rod, get a haze processor since it caps at 885t-atk and can be easily bought with tons of affixes and right elements to make it a 50 element. you can even unlock it for a cheap, cool photon flare potential if you want

for trees you always want to fully max a single mastery since that is a bonus you will get for spamming that color tech no matter if it matches the enemy's weakness or not. i used to have a budget light/dark only fo/te build with a generalist force photon flare side, but i was also lucky enough to have a caduceus and weddle park to rely on giving me an unconditional 16% damage for those colors so i could spam light on darkers and dark on literally everything else

a 3 element fo/te is generally regarded as a good bet and this build below lets you have the full photon flare with 110 proc rate in all elements with full ice for ult/facility, light for darkers and dark for shironia and massive namegids, giving you a very nice planetary coverage. just activate photon flare before you get shifta'ed for a massively better shifta since it works off your base t-atk which p.flare boosts:

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIk jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbniN2SGA2XIxikGA000007oInfcDjGAgOIkcKJIcA00000 0IbIo0000008doIb0000008

for weps just get 3(or 6 to max out their element) haze processors with awesome affixes and make a 50ice, 50light and 50 dark one to maximize your element convert until you find a nepto rod, caduceus and weddle park to replace them accordingly. for the 6wep pallete just make 2 of each rod, 1 set-up for mobbing like: attack-gibarta, barta-rabarta and 1 set-up for bossing: attack-nabarta, ilbarta-sabarta and do that for light and dark too, letting you switch on the fly between all 3 elements and tech ranges.
if you ever want to swap element skills or photon flare for other force mastery or talis bonus it will be easy so with that tree too

for casting just identify your favorite long, mid and close range techs and see what you like casting on what enemy. always charge and just attack and hit pp convert/ketos proi when you can safely spam away for a while. i like having lots of invulnerability triggers(since ketos proi charges fast and trigger happens on full charge) on my fo/te mag too, often hitting pp convert as soon as it activates. you dont really need zondeel but its there if you need it.

for things that are not weak to any of your elements such as mechs in the above set-up, just spam your best aoe(mob) or single target(boss) spells with the corresponding 50attribute rod, since then you will still be getting the full mastery AND element convert bonus! and the rod elemental potential if you have the rod. so if you were to take the above build into tunnels, just ilmegid/gimegid all the mobs and ilbarta/ragrants/gimegid/namegid vardha. if darkers show up then switch to light rod and spam ilgrants/ragrants/nagrants with same effectiveness on the mechs as your dark spam.

for tech crafting i followed this post and had good success with all of the suggestions:
http://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2/comments/2gb9or/help_me_be_a_better_fo_which_technique/

some of my faves: icefang ilbarta 3, fierce zondeel 3, concentrated ragrants3, concentrated gimegid 3, umbral na/il/megid 3 basically designate 1 spell in each element to be the heavy hitter and craft it for power and 1 to be the super-spammer and craft that for charge time and pp cost

hope this helps! just get a 50elem haze processor with the corresponding full 20sp mastery and check out the damage on a matching weakness enemy, i think you will be quite happy

[lnvisible]

@illidelph

He's looking for a general build without buying a bunch of trees. You can still play a decent force without multiple trees though it is tougher to do so.

[illidelph]

@invisible

the ice/light/dark build i provided has maximum damage potential in half of the game's elements that currently contain the toughest enemies (where you want the extra damage bonus) with a full photon flare to boot. the ones that are lacking are fire, lightning and wind.
fire is good but needs the extra charge reducing skill to excel and is currently only best in tower defense and forest/tundra which could be easily soloed with dark. even when extra hard td1 come out i doubt the 11sp in fire mastery will be good enough, making the full light mastery or even full ilmegid better for tagging mobs, photon flare again helping here to push the damage further
lightning isnt essential as mechs will die to dark fast and wind can be gotten instead of light or tech-up since it is a good mobbing element, even tho it does not have good coverage

i never advocated a multiple tree build nor do i have one, but simple truth is that they are better when you have 20-40sp to put into auxillary skills that supplement your build better
multiple trees>3 element>generalist

i personally think that if you supplement photon flare in a 3-maxed-element build you will be able to do better at higher difficulties while a generalist build will feel more and more underpowered. also since techs (and even each individual damage piece of zandion) are single mastery powered that means that a when a generalist build casts a tech he/she is not using 55 of their spent SP while only using 11 of their element's SP to boost damage. a 3-element build will be wasting 40SP while using 20SP for damage boosting and therefore is considered more efficient. when you add to this the fact that casting non-weak element techs with full mastery and matching rod with full elemental convert can beat out the extra damage from an element weakness matching tech, it becomes clear that spamming 3 elements everywhere, especially with photon flare with beat out a generalist build in most cases and put up the highest damage a fo/te can in the most difficult areas

[Achelousaurus]

Thanks.
I forgot that I can just get a rainbow of cheap rods for still lower price than one good 10-11* rod.
I'll go illidelph's build, though I am replacing techer's T-atk up with 11 points in Wind boost (25% dmg for wind sounds better than 3% general dmg boost).

[illidelph]

Yeah once the main 3 (1 force and 2 techer) elements are maxed you basically end up with 22sp in force (curtesy of ice having a crappy auxiliary skill) and 12sp in techer to round out the build and experiment with.

I also went as far as cut out pp covert since it always got me killed in lv70 onward stages but that's just me. i just cant seem to get gud with it :/ So I ended up with 22sp each and dumped them into full lightning and wind to try out a full zandion and ended up with this experimental 5 element fo/te:

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIk jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbniN2SGBIkGAGAIkGAin00000ioInidjGAgOfcKJIJIcA0 00009bIo0000008doIb0000008

That's my most recent respec and I must admit I don't miss using pp convert. I basically just spam aoe tech since the multi-hit techs fill up zandion fast, then zandion charges ketos proi and regens about 40pp during it's animation then hit ketos proi. Also having a unit set crafted for the new r-def recipe gives 10pp per piece so I just used a 10% relaxer to bring it down to 450 r-def which 75/75 fo/te can equip and get tons of pp to solve my lack of pp convert spam power. the 9* bat wing set and 11* star saiki sets are both great candidates. the 12% strike and range res and 150hp lost from the saiki hidden bonuses is ok for a force imo, since the 30pp gained for a total of 55pp gain before affixes is amazing.

My only regret with going more than 3 elements is that you cant procur more than 1 element mastery at a time, meaning that my 5-elem fo/te is wasting 80sp(20sp for each unused mastery) when I cast a tech while only utilising 20sp at a time :/ Plus the more elements you have the less efficient light mastery becomes since each darker beyond agna has a secondary weakness and you should probably stay away from agna anyways and kill mobs instead since it will kill a fo/te super fast. plus the rare darkers are usually weak only to their own element, pushing light further out of the spotlight. my case is unique tho cause my lucky ass found a caduceus somehow so im using light till i die lol

So my thinking is that even though tech-up is only 3% it's a 3% to all elements where the 26% (1.2*1.05=1.26) boost to wind has to be divided by the number of elements you use since you will only be using it for a fraction of the time. In other words if you have 4 elements it's closer to about 7% in terms of "overall" tech damage. That 3% and/or photon flare are there with you throughout all of your elements and also boost your shifta so it's a nice way to "top-off" your main elements.
The opposite argument for more masteries tho is that your elemental weak hit grows that much stronger with each mastery and also makes ancient oath potentials more viable since you have more chance to switch into another mastery element when switching techs

But as you can see I don't follow my own advice in my build and go for most elements possible for better or for worse.. Hindsight is always 20-20 I guess..

Just buy those skills last or get full wind and 11 in light if you get wind rod first since wind has better aoe and range and light's best damage spells are close range. Also I'm sure by the time you reach the level you will need to decide by, you will already know exactly what you will like from experience since everyone plays differently

Basically somewhere between the "general but smaller" and "bigger but conditional" bonuses is a sweet spot for everyone

[Achelousaurus]

Gear is no concern to me, I got premium and quite some spending money. I just got a decent Divine Amaterasu with pot 3 for light.

Anyway, I dislike the long charge times and ran out of pp super fast (only 22 cause I used some random Schlacht set from my storage).

I also like the idea of a rapid fire force, especially because I main braver and I hate being slow in this game. For example Ragrants missed several times cause the enemy made 2 steps away from the location it had by the time Ragrants started.

I also realized Flare sounds great on paper but is wasted on me, I have a severe case of FF Elixir syndrome and that extends to skills with cd, I barely use KC on braver and PBF on bouncer outside of boss fights either.

But here I came up with a new build (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uAbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm 0jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo000000l obniN2SGBIkGAikdncKIn00000ioIncFIdjGAIofcKJIwfn000 009bIo0000008doIb0000008), still generalist but I hope good.

I got points into PP up on Te cause I'd rather have a bigass pp pool (ontop of weapons and units with lots of pp) than do a bit more damage.
I'd craft techs according to that reddit post, mostly for speed and pp reduction.

Zandion is not usable yet, I am lvl 54 and I play melee more than everything else, so it's gonna be a good while before I can get it.

I got a question about weaknesses and damage though. Are there techs so strong that using techs of the element enemies / bosses are weak to deals still less damage? Even with Element Weak hit?
I know the big hitters are Namegid / Ilbarta (4th and especially 7th cast) and Ilfoie. All slow either cause of charge time and pp cost or cause I need to use them several times, so only really good for bosses I guess.

But overall do some elements have strong enough techs that they make other elements niche (Wind seems to have little use outside of Sazan utility?).
Cause if so I'd take points out of wind and if not really necessary, maybe even Element Week hit and put them into boosting individual elements.

[illidelph]

omg... wrote my reply for 2 hours and covered all the points then accidentally closed the tab... such pain...arg..

anyways regarding your build:
take full fire mastery in fire since you like fast and fire will always be the fastest. drop the lightning since you will do more damage to mechs with full fire than half of lightning because your fire is 50%(more with crafts) faster than lightning. same for ice since fire is so sp demanding to be good it leaves you with ice that will be too weak for any later ice-weak areas that you might as well do better damage with your full mastery elements. having full mastery is more that twice as good as having only 10 sp in it

to answer the question whether its better to element match or not or whether some elements render others niche:

depends on your set-up. full mastery is 1.44 modifier

2-element enemy weakness is 1.2 modifier in damage to each element
1-element enemy weakness is 1.3(i believe, but not sure)
so with el.weak hit and matching element is 1.44

BUT its 2.07 if you have full mastery AND e.w.h. and match
OR 1.73 when you have half(10sp) mastery

so see when you full mastery you can almost always match the damage from a non-mastery element plus put up crazy-high numbers when you do match. this is where static boosts/affixes/element potentials and photon flare helps close the gap further letting you spam a couple of your favorite techs EVERYWHERE with minimal dps loss compared to matching. a generalist can put up an AVERAGE of those damages everywhere BUT since multipliers are exponential that little extra jump from 10sp to full(20sp) mastery translates into 34% power boost: 2.07-1.73=.34!! and the gap only widens when you multiply by all the other modifiers like element convert and tech charge, ja, etc

in other words when you have 10sp in each element as you have, you gain a .29 modifier (go up from 1.44 matching+e.w.h. to 1.73) in each element for a total of: .29*6=1.74 of pure numerical gain

when you go full mastery in 3 elements you get a .63 modifier(go up to 2.07 from 1.44) in half of the elements for a total of: .63*3=1.89gain
in other words you will gain a .15 or 15% more damage for sticking to only 3 elements :)

i prefer to get full mastery in 1 element that has the best mobbing tech (fire/wind/dark) then 1 element that has best bossing tech (ice/dark) and then get light for darkers unless i took wind already since wind and fire means that only toy and aqua darkers need off-weakness elements

generally speaking tho you can always tailor a build to spam specific techs with better efficiency and dps everywhere rather than trying to always match weakness, because... SEEEGA! for some reason our beloved game creator made ilmegid and sazan the best mobbing techs and namegid and ilbarta be lightyears ahead on any other bossing tech so those elements are the most commonly tailored for. fire is good too because it can be the fastest and therefore best for mobbing but needs 30 instead of 20sp for best use, leaving no room for a second force element so its most commonly paired with dark since dark has namegid for bosses instead of ilbarta. so there are basically always going to be techs you can spam instead of other matching element techs without too much dps loss. this is better than generalist since a generalist cant max out anywhere while a full mastery force can max out in half the places, especially the ones you want to tailor for

just pick the techs themselves that you like and wanna spam and then make sure that you have all your bases covered in terms of: long-range/short-range, aoe/single-target and mobbing/bossing and then tailor your build to those specific elements trying to get the best damage multiplier, remembering that full mastery is exponentially better. then if you happen to spam your full mastery elements somewhere else, then eh, not much damage loss at all, especially for full mastery ilmegid and namegid and can always spam full light since darkers are everywhere

in regards to boss techs being slow, they might seem slow from the way they are used but if you have full mastery in them, they kill FAST! sure a namegid takes 6 secs to charge but it can kill a boss in 3-4 casts! ilbarta can be cast uncharged the first couple of times you want to just build up weakness then just charge the 4th and 7th hit. and if someone puts a wb on a weak spot its just game over for boss-man

even at 20sp pp-up only gives you 20pp which is 1 cast of a tech at best. i was always eyeing that skill myself but when i realized how much pp hidden unit bonuses give (8pp per piece of zeig's and 10pp a piece for lv10 extended r-def unit that fo/te can equip with 10% relaxer) and how much easier stigma is to affix now i would rather get pp convert and tech-up2 since pp convert will let you spam fire as fast as you can with max power and lowest charge time creating best dps. basically ketos proi/pp convert/pp restore/zandion are your pp batteries letting you non-stop spam, letting you put points into damage to push your dps sky-high

consider having free maxed ilmegid for half a minute as opposed to having 1 more rafoie. the hp loss can be mitigated with diabo soul affixes nowadays as well

also since you mention braver perhaps you might be interested in a te/br? they are not so element mastery dependent but can still tech really well and actually reward element-matching since weak element techs with a generalist boost will procur element weak hit AND weak stance, rivaling those of a fo/te. there are elemental wands for each element as well like rods and you have the benefit of refilling your pp with wand smacks. im not sure what a good te/br tree setup looks like tho since i only know about maining fo

sorry for another text, math-heavy mountain, i just wanted to inform a fellow player the best i can. personally i dont like the way sega did forces in pso2 there should be a better way to be an elementalist without having to sacrifice so many other elements or power. perhaps just have 4, 10sp, each 110% damage boosting "generic elemental mastery" skills each a pre-req for the next and then have 1 or 5 sp skills letting you apply that generic mastery to an element or swap around like boots or something along those lines, since i feel like no other class has to specialize in a type of damage that is only usefull 1/6th of the time :/

p.s. im actually selling a 50 light +40 caduceus and a 50 dark +40 weddle park with identical 4-slots: Elder, Tech3, Spirita3, Latan. if interested, just quote me a price since im willing to bargain

[Achelousaurus]

Firefox usually saves typed text even closing a tab, or even when turning off the pc and there again when you reboot and start Firefox again.


generally speaking tho you can always tailor a build to spam specific techs with better efficiency and dps everywhere rather than trying to always match weakness, because... SEEEGA!
http://pso2.cirnopedia.info/sample/voices/sv_acman_039.swf
Middle sample.

And really, don't apologize! I'm really grateful and this is a huge help! The more text, the more info, the better force I can become :D

I think I'll want this tree. (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIkbxIk jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbniN2SGBIk8cKIx00000ioInidjGAgOfcKJIJIcA000009 bIo0000008doIb0000008)
Basically the same you linked but maxing fire with charge reduction instead of putting points into ice and lightning.
It has 10 points over I am not sure where to put. Maybe 5 points into Lightning pp reduction cause a friend of mine uses a lighting build with this maxed, charge or pp reduction crafted Ilzonde and is zipping around nonstop, looks like a lot of fun.

PS: Ilmegid ._.
I realize it's still good, especially so with such a tree, which seems best for my taste.
But meleeing all through Ep 2 made me hate that tech with a passion and even as Force I am reluctant to use it XD.
Either way, before I commit to a tree I will have to do a lot of testing to see which techs I like and are suited to my play style and which don't care about, so that I can make a buil around those techs and craft them properly.

PPS: those rods sound quite nice, when I found the techs I prefer and know what weapons I need, I'll come back to you.

[Netro Shine]

But as you can see I don't follow my own advice in my build and go for most elements possible for better or for worse..
I like this guy.

Techer/Braver (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217314) is funny as hell if you ask me. I've been playing it for the melee prowess of Attack Advance and I always forget that my casting power is actually half decent. Matching weak elements on the primary melee strike is some like 350% base damage assuming you don't have the tremendous hike from Wand Lovers. And if you're matching weak element and casting, that's some 235% base damage to your casting going off core modifiers. Nothing like a Force, but makes for subsidiary damage if your opponents leave melee range.

I digress, the single thing that I would like to add was kind of touched on before:


even at 20sp pp-up only gives you 20pp which is 1 cast of a tech at best.

My personal opinion is that you should really use the Skill Tree for empowering your character, and while there's something that can be said for having a larger PP pool, I feel this decision should come down to a comparison; are you going to murder all enemies super fast or are you going to be fighting for a long time? Even if you have solid DPS, enemies like in Extra Hard or Ultimate with massive HP pools can take some larger number of casts to kill. Even if you can kill most mobs in one hit, a steady stream of mobs will force you to keep casting. Maybe at the peak of damage, more PP will be the better choice; I couldn't say because I haven't been there, but for the majority of us, I think it's more important to focus on PP regeneration. Even if your PP pool is shallow, being able to efficiently restore your PP (or conversely make Techs cheaper), while the method may stretch out your damage, will give you more DPS in the long run. Sadly, there aren't many solid ways that we can do this through the Skill Trees (PP Restorate, PP Convert, PP Attack Restore, Crazy Heart, Element Restorate PP Field, Deband PP Restorate, Just Reversal PP Gain; 8 Skills between 8 classes and 3 of them come Bouncer). That said, if you're going to be a caster, I'd say Skills that restore PP (for Force/Techer, PP Restorate and PP Conversion) should definitely be a priority. An alternate approach to this could be the (often overlooked) Gunslash. They are inaccurate as hell, but even unaltered they have a generous level of PP recovery and something like the Call Cipher can give you back more PP per shot. Set them to shoot, and for those moments you really need to grab back a chunk of PP in a hurry, they will allow you to get it from a distance, so the squishy caster never has to approach combat. I think that you should be fine with PP Restorate and PP Convert, but if you ever see that you're lacking (for example, the fast casting of Fire may burn through your PP faster than you can keep it up, especially when PP Convert is on cooldown), I wanted to propose an alternative.

TL;DR : That whole thing was a justification for carrying a Gunslash.

[illidelph]

Hmm maybe I should yolo type in Firefox then, my chrome seems to punish my blunders...

that sample had me laughing for a while!
thanks for reading my rants! :)

So tree looks good on the force side. I'd recommend putting the last 10sp into tech-up2 over lightning since it will give you a small but constant boost to all elements you use at all times instead of making 1/6th of your techs 5pp cheaper.

On techer side I'd say lose either wind or light and put those points into pp convert and another tech-up2 since you NEED! pp convert with fire since it will drain you pp super fast from charging so fast and also pp convert rocks with dark since ilmegid is expensive on pp. just imagine having a maxed out free ilfoie for 30 secs...so good..

The 2 tech-up2's will work together and help you close the damage gap when you spam off-weakness tech(spamming your mastery techs on non-weak enemies) and push weakness matching damage to even higher numbers than most fo/te will see. Note that a fonewearl in such a build with a 190 tatk mag will have 1140 t-atk BASE! Making your shifta on yourself/resta etc that much better. very nice indeed

Ilzonde costs 25pp so a 20pp one will give you only 1 extra cast per 100pp. It can only be crafted for charge time or power but is used best for zipping around it you dont charge it making charge time meh. You can always just hit pp convert or ketos proi and zip around for free anyways. If you really want lightning just swap fire for full 30sp in lightning then go full wind instead of light so you'll have an awesome maxed out zandion! I was able to solo a rare zeshy no prob as a 523hp fo/te with a maxed zandion like this since it charges really fast with Multi-hit techs like sazan (or ilmegid if have mobs), then just wrecks bosses if you zip around them in a tight circle especially if they are weak to wind or lightning. Plus zandion charges your pb fast and counts for charge tech and ja tech bonuses and you can just attack out of it too. You can even save a nazonde with the rod keep and just-attack it for free out of zandion! Combo time!

Yeah I really hate ilmegid too since I was playing a sword hu/fi in ep2... Yeah stupid I know, but I was stubborn back then... But I just can't deny ilmegid's awesomeness anymore. Just use it for utility and off-weakness spamming since its good at tagging goldies, doesnt need zondeel, charges zandion fast and good on those extreme quest stages when 20-30 mobs spawn all at once. just use it on dragon mobs and anything else fire or sazan(if you went lightning/wind) cant deal better with

So yeah I'd say either go fire/light/dark like this:

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbnfHn2SGBIk8cKIx00000ioInfcDjGAgOIkcKJIcA00000 0IbIo0000008doIb0000008

this gives you the fastest fire spam sustainable by pp restore and pp convert. max damage in forest, tundra, non-cave amduscia, td1-3, shironia, then bal rodos and nepto/rheo, every darker in the game except some rare ones and burly ilmegid and namegid for things that arent weak to your mastery element

Or lightning/wind/dark like so:

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbnfHn2SGBIkGAGK7n00000ioInfcDjGAgOIkcKcAGAcA00 0009bIo0000008doIb0000008

this will let you mob with wind and dark instead of fire, boss with dark and sometimes lightning, lightning also giving you great utility, mechs and aqua darkers, wind giving you bird darkers and forest, and always having maxed zandion to drop is sweet

Either one will have great mobbing: one having fire/ilmegid, other having sazan/ilmegid and both have namegid for easy bossing. since fire and wind both kind of compete for good mobbing you dont really need both. light and wind together overlap too since wind is so good on bird darkers and lightning on aqua darkers, leaving you with only toy and insect which can be easily killed with ilmegid/namegid. light is better with fire since fire kills insects leaving you with 3 darker types instead of 2 that light can take over for.
Fire will be faster and cover more ground along with light for darkers but lightning will have really cheap techs and sazan which is already cheap and great for spamming any stage heavy with bird darkers or forest plus full zandion. Plus with the new lv80 mech eqs coming out I expect lightning to pick up the pace plus did I already mention full zandion omg? :)

[illidelph]

yay for gunslash! makes me regret selling my bisket-drop...it has 975 t-atk at +10 or can always go for fortunate omen since you want your force rares to be the correct element saving you millions.

also talis can restore pp from throwing the cards from far away

also getting a gunslash or talis with any pp restoration or pp attack restoration potential will be great as well. putting points into talis bonus then would be a good idea since that would definitely let one spam ilmegid everywhere as annoying as it was half a year ago

[LonelyGaruga]

My personal opinion is that you should really use the Skill Tree for empowering your character, and while there's something that can be said for having a larger PP pool, I feel this decision should come down to a comparison; are you going to murder all enemies super fast or are you going to be fighting for a long time? Even if you have solid DPS, enemies like in Extra Hard or Ultimate with massive HP pools can take some larger number of casts to kill. Even if you can kill most mobs in one hit, a steady stream of mobs will force you to keep casting. Maybe at the peak of damage, more PP will be the better choice; I couldn't say because I haven't been there, but for the majority of us, I think it's more important to focus on PP regeneration. Even if your PP pool is shallow, being able to efficiently restore your PP (or conversely make Techs cheaper), while the method may stretch out your damage, will give you more DPS in the long run. Sadly, there aren't many solid ways that we can do this through the Skill Trees (PP Restorate, PP Convert, PP Attack Restore, Crazy Heart, Element Restorate PP Field, Deband PP Restorate, Just Reversal PP Gain; 8 Skills between 8 classes and 3 of them come Bouncer). That said, if you're going to be a caster, I'd say Skills that restore PP (for Force/Techer, PP Restorate and PP Conversion) should definitely be a priority. An alternate approach to this could be the (often overlooked) Gunslash. They are inaccurate as hell, but even unaltered they have a generous level of PP recovery and something like the Call Cipher can give you back more PP per shot. Set them to shoot, and for those moments you really need to grab back a chunk of PP in a hurry, they will allow you to get it from a distance, so the squishy caster never has to approach combat. I think that you should be fine with PP Restorate and PP Convert, but if you ever see that you're lacking (for example, the fast casting of Fire may burn through your PP faster than you can keep it up, especially when PP Convert is on cooldown), I wanted to propose an alternative.

TL;DR : That whole thing was a justification for carrying a Gunslash.

PP Up is idiotic. If you need PP, you can easily get enough from affixes and units alone. Crafted Saiki is +45 PP by itself, not counting affixes. Spirita III/Elder Soul is +28 PP, throw in Spirita Boost if you really need it and you have +48 PP. Mix or swap in Fevers, Stigma, or Anga Soul as needed. With all that, it's easy to hit 200 PP without even using PP Up. With tech crafting, every element has a tech that costs around ~10 PP. Between that, PP Charge Revival, and PP Restorate I, your actual cost is closer to 5-6 PP. For any time that you need extra PP, PP Convert covers it. Fo/Te has no business using a gunslash at any given time. If you need a gunslash, your damage is insufficient.

Even if PP Up was good, there is nothing on the Force or Techer tree worth losing out on in favor of it, so there's no reason to consider using it.

Also, for everyone proclaiming how great Ilmegid is: It's not. It's terrible. Stop being an EP2 Force please.

[illidelph]

on cirno both saiki and hiei are said to give 25pp as set bonus, but when i tried the hiei it only gives 10pp :( so crafted for r-def pp special recipe and using a 10% relaxer to make them fo/te equipable at 450 r-def gives us 40(10+10+10+10)pp for hiei or 55(10+10+10+25)pp for saiki before affixes

just thought id mention the cirno falacy since i wasted millions crafting the hiei thinking it would give me 55pp...grrr

the only time i find pp-up to be viable is if you have an ice/wind fo/te uncharged elysion build that spams crafted sazan that costs 8pp. since pp convert and restore dont work very well with uncharged, and you're only getting wind on techer since you'll boss with ilbarta 20pp could give you 2.5 more casts of sazan and finish your build at ~220pp

ilmegid doesnt suck if you have full mastery and weddle park/seimei kikami with lv3 potential especially if you craft it for power and loss of speed since then it can scoop up even more mobs. why cut it out? just cause its not as op as it used to be?

[LonelyGaruga]

Cirno isn't up to date. Use swiki.

You can charge uncharged techs and release them before they're full charged to benefit from PP Convert. Not a big issue.

Ilmegid was nerfed by 40% with EP3's update, while almost every other tech received buffs, with fire and dark techs being particularly relevant here. Now, not only are fire techs (with light for bosses) the best route to go for TD (particularly XH TD1), but Ilmegid is outclassed by other dark techs when it comes to mobbing as well. Ilmegid is only good for tagging mobs now, whereas it was good in EP2 because it both tagged mobs and killed them very quickly.

[Selphea]

Shachao used a Gunslash to shoot towers for PP. Within the first minute and again at 3:41. Looks like a legit method to regain PP.

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94FlNlGENsw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94FlNlGENsw[/spoiler-box]

[Z-0]

Bow is more effective for TD1/3 if you're spawn killing, though. A fully charged arrow can make it all the way from the spawn points in both of them. For TD2 you can just shoot the wall, and that's not far from the spawn points.

[LonelyGaruga]

Shachao used a Gunslash to shoot towers for PP. Within the first minute and again at 3:41. Looks like a legit method to regain PP.

[spoiler-box]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94FlNlGENsw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94FlNlGENsw)[/spoiler-box]

First one's a little different from what I meant, since that was solely for traveling purposes and is only usable with TD towers. Useful, but not for combat.

Second time, well...yeah, no question about it, gunslash was needed there. I'll adjust that to "rarely necessary" then "never". Or go with what Z-0 said.

PP Up still sucks :v

[Z-0]

Crafted Saiki is +45 PP by itself
55, by the way. （´・ω・`）

[LonelyGaruga]

Derp, didn't bother to actually check Saiki's set bonus, thought it was 5 per unit and 10 set bonus for whatever reason. And then I derped on the math anyway. My bad~

Spirita III + Elder Soul would be 183 PP with crafted Saiki units for just 2s then.

...yeah I don't think PP Up 1/2 is ever going to be useful.

[Achelousaurus]

Alright, thanks.
I got a nice unit set for only 8 mil and got 143 pp without weapon now, this will suffice for now.

And thank god I don't have to use Ilmegid XD
I will go for Foie cause half a second base charge time (1.5 for Ilfoie) is very nice. And then I'll see if I might go even lower with crafting.
This kinda reminds me of my Spamming Monk build in Diablo 3. Sure was fun.

[Z-0]

I'm actually seriously considering putting PP Up 1 on my TE tree, though, simply because there's nothing to really get on elemental trees that are for sub-use only. There's Shifta Advance or Territory PP Save or whatever, but eh...

PP Up is definitely not a bad decision after you've exhausted your major skill points, I'd say, but it's definitely not super duper insanely helpful or necessary or anything like that.

[LonelyGaruga]

If you aren't grabbing any Techer masteries, yeah, the options start to really thin out. Using a build like this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0lo00000007oInfpKjGAqBIkIKgNgNIn000009bIo0000008do Ib0000008), there's 17 spare points to either max out two Mastery skills, grab Shifta Advance, or dump into PP Up 1. Personally I think the first one's the best choice but if you're literally using only one element then it's either Shifta Advance or PP Up.

Hard to say which is worse, really, but I'd sooner opt for Shifta Advance personally. Still leaves SP for PP Up though, at which point there really is literally nothing else to take.

Well, I guess Wand Gear + Wand Lovers, but that's still just 2 SP.

[Achelousaurus]

So, I maxed light on my techer tree, but the damage is rather pitiful.
Especially Ilgrants is weak as hell, 1500-2000 damage a hit, even on darkers and using a pot 3 Divine Amaterasu (Lunar Deity).
My T-atk with it is ~2200.

Granted it's only lvl 1 but it doesn't seem to get any massive dmg boost to allow it damage even close to fire.
And it's not like other light techs are that strong either, Ragrants, Gigrants and Nagrants, all lvl 16-17 do 3000-4000 a hit each. Sometimes 5000.
Somewhat viable, but still not very impressive.

Is light overall a weak element?

Overall I find force very underwhelming so far, how come my damage is very unimpressive when compared with Braver (my Sakura Endo is at 26000-28000 at the moment).

Is force damage overall not that big unless you pop PP convert and spam Namegid/Ilbarta/Ilfoie with the right build?

[lnvisible]

So, I maxed light on my techer tree, but the damage is rather pitiful.
Especially Ilgrants is weak as hell, 1500-2000 damage a hit, even on darkers and using a pot 3 Divine Amaterasu (Lunar Deity).
My T-atk with it is ~2200.

Granted it's only lvl 1 but it doesn't seem to get any massive dmg boost to allow it damage even close to fire.
And it's not like other light techs are that strong either, Ragrants, Gigrants and Nagrants, all lvl 16-17 do 3000-4000 a hit each. Sometimes 5000.
Somewhat viable, but still not very impressive.

Is light overall a weak element?

Overall I find force very underwhelming so far, how come my damage is very unimpressive when compared with Braver (my Sakura Endo is at 26000-28000 at the moment).

Is force damage overall not that big unless you pop PP convert and spam Namegid/Ilbarta/Ilfoie with the right build?

Is your T-atk 2200 with shifta drink/shifta? Do you have a 50 light amaterasu? Were you testing vs darkers or others? Ragrants with concentrated 3 craft and pp convert is some of the highest dps you'll find.

I have a lv1 potential amaterasu with multi class affixed units (i.e anga soul/stam 3/spirita 3). Here's a vid for reference (Disclaimer: I suck at this game) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IGm7pnKfco. You may be missing some things if your damage is that low on a weak to light enemy.

[STNFCST]

I am seriously starting to like pso2 FO more than RA on Nova. Really Safe and no damage lose over long range. Besides that there is no enemy that can counter FO but FO can. FO being is low apm and high reward.

I wonder when they going introduced PSNOVA mobs that spam backdash better than fast 5 step and gatling you. Will be really annoying for melee. Lol.

[Z-0]

Well, FO right now is the best class in the entire game. Nothing comes close to it.

Things like Ranger and Bouncer are situationally better than FO for some things (mostly bosses), and while Ranger on PSO2 is very good at most things, it just doesn't come close to what FO can do.

It's really sad that Episode 3 tried to "balance" everything, but all they managed to do was make FO ridiculously overpowered compared to everything else.

[EvilMag]

I think the issue with Force is just how stupidly overpowered Fire techniques are. They seriously need a nerf...

[horseship]

Nerfing Force's damage probably wouldn't do much. In my opinion the two most broken aspects of Force are Zondeel and infinite range insta-hit techs. If all techs had to travel, and Zondeel wasn't a thing, Force would be pretty balanced.

[Achelousaurus]

My Amaterasu is pot 3 with 50 element and I maxed both light boosts on techer.
I get 5k Ragrants on average, it is nice but not op.
Ilgrants is weak, though.

Is the low damage because of my level?
When I made that post I was 62/55 FoTe (lets not talk about TeFo dmg).
I am also very disappointed about my Namegid.
I just did Cougar at 62/56 with both dark boosts maxed and a 50 dark pot 3 Weddle Park (85 t-atk, too).
50-65k only.

It's just, those numbers aren't very impressive compared to my braver. And I'm just using a fire sukei suzumi.

Indeed only fire comes close to that kind of damage but even then my average Ilfoie is 25-30k and my average Nafoie is 13-16k.

I still kill faster and more reliably (no projectile with travel speed that can miss) with Sakura Endo.
And that is confusing me cause whenever I do an EQ I see forces annihilating everything almost instantly.

PS: my ilgrants is only lvl 1, does that really make such a huge difference? Cause I would stop considering it weak when it does 4-5k damage a hit, no less and that's almost triple damage.

[LonelyGaruga]

5K per tick Ragrants is 25000 damage with a 0.3s charge time when crafted, and your T-ATK is pitiful and you aren't even close to level capped. Typical Force has at least 3K T-ATK. Ilgrants is 7 hits and isn't even supposed to be a power tech, it's for range and panic.

What the hell are you even whining for when you can clearly see other Force players annihilating things? Should be easy enough to infer that your setup is inferior by a wide margin if your results are so dismal.

[Bellion]

Just get level 75/75 or at least 70/70+ before you start comparing damage between classes. Make sure there is little to no gear or mag bias either.

Not to mention, doing 20k+ Sakura End per hit is clearly on a weakpoint. It's like you're comparing weakpoint to non-weakpoint damage with the numbers you're throwing out.

Let me tell you right now, my lvl 75 Fo beats the crap out of my lvl 75 Br in mobbing and bossing with how things are now. Although, I don't exactly have lvl 17 PAs of the major 4 katana ones; an extra 10% damage isn't going to change things in favor of Br.
Now if we had to compare on Biblas specifically with DAT ASS taking more damage from striking, then yeah, Br>Fo there. But we have Bo for that now!
My numbers of Hatou and Combat Finish are actually weaker thanks to Fury stance nerf compared to Braver in its former glory:
[SPOILER-BOX]www.youtube.com/watch?v=11_nJQdf9cU[/SPOILER-BOX]

[lnvisible]

There's a number of factors. T-atk is low for example. Also, what about the rest of your TE tree and your FO tree? Are your techs crafted? Crafting your techs makes a huge difference. With ragrants it's pretty strong but more importantly it's spammable as hell for example. If so are the bonuses good or can you get far better (Not talking about best possible value just something close to it)? Are you hitting weak points or just wherever? Also, tech level does make a difference. Probably moreso than alot of PAs due to the fact that forces are a very spammy class so those extra %s that you're missing stack up very quickly.

[NexusAZ]

Just get level 75/75 or at least 70/70+ before you start comparing damage between classes. Make sure there is little to no gear or mag bias either.

Not to mention, doing 20k+ Sakura End per hit is clearly on a weakpoint. It's like you're comparing weakpoint to non-weakpoint damage with the numbers you're throwing out.

Let me tell you right now, my lvl 75 Fo beats the crap out of my lvl 75 Br in mobbing and bossing with how things are now. Although, I don't exactly have lvl 17 PAs of the major 4 katana ones; an extra 10% damage isn't going to change things in favor of Br.
Now if we had to compare on Biblas specifically with DAT ASS taking more damage from striking, then yeah, Br>Fo there. But we have Bo for that now!
My numbers of Hatou and Combat Finish are actually weaker thanks to Fury stance nerf compared to Braver in its former glory:
[SPOILER-BOX]www.youtube.com/watch?v=11_nJQdf9cU[/SPOILER-BOX]

RIP Hatou Butts

Also, I want to say they were counting both hits of Sakura, which seems more normal.

[Achelousaurus]

I wasn't saying Braver is the better class. I was just saying my force is so weak it's not as good as my braver (26-28k Sakura Endo total damage, 13-14k per hit).

As I said before, I see other forces annihilating everything and was wondering why my own dmg is so low.

Of course I know I am not close to maxed but compared to BrHu the damage difference wasn't this big for me.

Especially because I already maxed the light and dark boost skills and already use great weapons.

As for Ilgrants, that is disappointing. Then what light do I use for long range darker killing? Just fire again? Cause my Rafoie was 10-11k on a Lanz Vareda's weakspot even though it's not weak to fire.

[NovaanVerdiano]

What about your units btw? Are they a set, decent affixes etc.? That can change a few things too.

Anyway, I came here with a few questions. Now, I'm no horrible player, but I'm horrible with math. My currently gearing my FO and I'm pretty much done, buuut I still have to decide a few things.

Which is better in terms of damage? Koushousen or Bert Rodan? I usually use Foie, Gifoie, Rafoie; sometimes Nafoie, but I know it's a pain to aim that one off a talis because it just drops to the ground.

Also, how much of an upgrade is Cadeceus over Divine Amaterasu (in %, approximately)?

[LonelyGaruga]

As for Ilgrants, that is disappointing. Then what light do I use for long range darker killing? Just fire again? Cause my Rafoie was 10-11k on a Lanz Vareda's weakspot even though it's not weak to fire.

Welll...Ilgrants, actually. Just mean that you shouldn't expect more damage than Ragrants, or 4-5K damage per hit. As a Te/Fi, my Ilgrants was only 1.7K per hit (no light masteries, only things applied were Brave/CAP/Shifta Strike/EWH), but a Lanz Vareda goes down in two shots of it. 1.7K per hit * 7 is just short of 12K. And that's Te/Fi, your Ilgrants should be able to do considerably higher damage.

Divine Staff Amaterasu is horribly outdated by the way. Caduceus has over 100 more T-ATK with the same potential.


Which is better in terms of damage? Koushousen or Bert Rodan? I usually use Foie, Gifoie, Rafoie; sometimes Nafoie, but I know it's a pain to aim that one off a talis because it just drops to the ground.

Also, how much of an upgrade is Cadeceus over Divine Amaterasu (in %, approximately)?

Koushousen. But use Bert Rodan for Foie and any time Nafoie can't be used effectively off a Talis.

About 5-6% stronger.

[NovaanVerdiano]

Koushousen. But use Bert Rodan for Foie and any time Nafoie can't be used effectively off a Talis.

About 5-6% stronger.

Welp, time to keep farming Koushousen and wait for Bert Rodan to drop in price. Also looks like I need to upgrade to Cadeceus.

Thanks for the info.

[Bellion]

How about showing your skilltrees, then? Does it look even close to this? You're missing like 70+ t-atk for not capping both classes. Also, yeah, your units too with their affixes.

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09dEbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk dt0fdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbniN22GAIk8cKIk00000ioInfbDjGAdBIkIkGAcA000000 IbIo0000008doIb0000008

[NovaanVerdiano]

How about showing your skilltrees, then? Does it look even close to this? You're missing like 70+ t-atk for not capping both classes. Also, yeah, your units too with their affixes.

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09dEbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk dt0fdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbniN22GAIk8cKIk00000ioInfbDjGAdBIkIkGAcA000000 IbIo0000008doIb0000008

Your tree is empty. I guess you meant this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08hDbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk jdt8dodBIb00000000jdoIniNfeAGKGKIAHqISI200008doib0 000006do000000jdBbsiN2SGAIk8cKIk00000ioInidjGAqBIk cKcAGAcA00000ibqB4Ni2J2e2mxIk00008doIb000000f) one from the build guide thread, just with points in light instead of dark and/or wind, in case he plays Fo/Te. Though the one I linked is still at 80 SP.

[Bellion]

Well, I'm basing it on OP's current levels of 62/55.

[Rukoto]

As for Ilgrants, that is disappointing. Then what light do I use for long range darker killing? Just fire again? Cause my Rafoie was 10-11k on a Lanz Vareda's weakspot even though it's not weak to fire.

From my limited experience, I find that talis ragrants works pretty well for long ranged light damage. Though if you don't have a light ele talis, namely, ガディアンナ (Gadianna) (http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%AC%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2%E3% 83%B3%E3%83%8A), then you're probably better off with ilgrants or fire techs.

[Sizustar]

So for light... how mcu worse is a 50 ele. grinded カジューシース compared to a ガディアンナ?

[Bellion]

For me it's like an 8% difference in favor of the Gad. It's still good to keep a Cad for Ragrants PP Convert spamming.

[Achelousaurus]

Wasn't expecting Ilgrants to outdamage Ragrants but get closer to it cause atm 1500-1700 (2000 is rare) per hit is a lot less than Ragrants.

I start crafting techs but it takes a long time, even if I wouldn't request others toc raft my techs it would still take a long time to even unlock the recipes I want. And of course I have to craft numerous times until I get good values. For example my Blazing Rafoie 3 is only at 89% after 5 crafts but I want to get to 100%+

I can link my skilltree later when I get home. But as mentioned before it's similar to the one ilideph posted, maxing Fire + charge on force and light + dark on techer. Ligth and dark I already maxed and fire has boost 1 and charge maxed with boost 2 at 4/10 or so.

I also already maxed EWH and tech ja charge 1+2 and tech ja advance and t-atk high up (talis boost I'll max later when I can use them cause atm it's just a mess).

[lnvisible]

Wasn't expecting Ilgrants to outdamage Ragrants but get closer to it cause atm 1500-1700 (2000 is rare) per hit is a lot less than Ragrants.

I start crafting techs but it takes a long time, even if I wouldn't request others toc raft my techs it would still take a long time to even unlock the recipes I want. And of course I have to craft numerous times until I get good values. For example my Blazing Rafoie 3 is only at 89% after 5 crafts but I want to get to 100%+

I can link my skilltree later when I get home. But as mentioned before it's similar to the one ilideph posted, maxing Fire + charge on force and light + dark on techer. Ligth and dark I already maxed and fire has boost 1 and charge maxed with boost 2 at 4/10 or so.

I also already maxed EWH and tech ja charge 1+2 and tech ja advance and t-atk high up (talis boost I'll max later when I can use them cause atm it's just a mess).

Force generally has lower damage per hit than other classes but makes up for it with high spammability and upkeep. You won't see too many rediculously high numbers but if you can quick mental math add together all the hits of a given skill you would see how decent the damage is. If your ilgrants is doing 1500 a hit that's 10.5k/tech which isn't bad given how spammable techs are. Of course, there's better like ragrants for example. If you just want to see rediculously high numbers then you're probably not looking at the right class. The damage is there though, just not packed into one single hit or PA.

[Achelousaurus]

10.5k? Ilgrants hits 7 times? I thought it was only 5 times. With 7 hits and over 10k the damage isn't so bad actually.

I hope I can get to a reliable 2k without weakpoint, then the damage will be nice.

Anyway, here is my tree. (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uHbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jdG8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsiN2SGBIk8cKIx00000ioInfGDjGAgOIkcKJIcA000000 IbIo0000008doIb0000008)

The 10 points in te s-atk are for early Elysion, I got 5 characters and only use 2, so I can just use an all tree reset pass to put them elsewhere once I can equip elysion without skills.

Zondeel/Zanverse/Megiverse count as support techs, right? Cause then I might just max Territory PP save to make them really spammable.

[LonelyGaruga]

10.5k? Ilgrants hits 7 times? I thought it was only 5 times. With 7 hits and over 10k the damage isn't so bad actually.

Actually it's 10 hits. I said Ilgrants was 7 hits earlier, I was thinking of Nagrants' number of hits and got them confused. My bad. Your actual damage is 15K.

Grants and Ragrants are 5 hits, Gigrants is 6, Nagrants is 7, and Ilgrants is 10. Multi Nagrants is 9 hits at max. You can find more detailed information about techs here (http://pso2.net/%E5%85%89%E5%B1%9E%E6%80%A7%E3%83%86%E3%82%AF%E3%8 3%8B%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF) than on the swiki (link's for light techs, the other elements are readily accessible from that page). As you can see, it even gives what % of damage uncharged and charged techs do compared to their power notations. Gigrants, Nagrants, and Ilgrants are all stronger than what the notation actually says when charged.

2K per hit on Ilgrants is easy to get as a Force, so you should be golden for it. Not really sure why you aren't already hitting it. Must be the level 1 Ilgrants. Level 16-17 should help.

They're support techs, yeah.

[Sizustar]

10.5k? Ilgrants hits 7 times? I thought it was only 5 times. With 7 hits and over 10k the damage isn't so bad actually.

I hope I can get to a reliable 2k without weakpoint, then the damage will be nice.

Anyway, here is my tree. (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uHbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jdG8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsiN2SGBIk8cKIx00000ioInfGDjGAgOIkcKJIcA000000 IbIo0000008doIb0000008)

The 10 points in te s-atk are for early Elysion, I got 5 characters and only use 2, so I can just use an all tree reset pass to put them elsewhere once I can equip elysion without skills.

Zondeel/Zanverse/Megiverse count as support techs, right? Cause then I might just max Territory PP save to make them really spammable.

Why do you have 10 point into S-atk up on Techer?

[LonelyGaruga]

The 10 points in te s-atk are for early Elysion, I got 5 characters and only use 2, so I can just use an all tree reset pass to put them elsewhere once I can equip elysion without skills.

It's in the post you quoted.

[Achelousaurus]

So, I reworked my tree a little. (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09fbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm0 jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo000000lo bniN2SGBIkGAdnjcKIx00000ioInidjGAkicKJIJIcA000009b Io0000008doIb0000008)
PP Convert is somewhat questionable for me, that would set me at 500-600HP (i.e. I can easily get oneshotted) and in the end it doesn't seem like I could spam techs truly that much faster, at 150pp with pp restorate I don't run out of pp often and if I got a Nero Parasol with pot3 and only need a handful shots to be back at full pp.

I'd rather max wind for a 4th element and also put some points into lightning, this way I'll have a far stronger Zandeon.

Oh and the points in tb reduction are for spammy zondeel.

PS: is Ilfoie really that good? At the mention I have crafted Nafoie with +79% power and vanilla Ilfoie cause I can't get a good crafting result but the damage difference is usually ~10k.
Considering how likely Ilfoie is to miss and that it roots me into place, it seems Nafoie is much better for sustained dpm.

Ilfoie charge is only 1.5 seconds but the travel speed is far too slow. WTB Swift Ilfoie 3.

[LonelyGaruga]

How do you get one shotted at 500-600 HP? Most attacks are in the 300-400 realm with no resistances, and stuff that surpasses that is either a boosted TD wave (in which case you should know to be more careful with PP Convert) or something that by no rights should ever hit you as a Force. Not sure why you aren't running out of PP either, if you're spamming Nafoie for example, you only have enough PP for four casts in a row without Convert...maybe 5 with regen. That lasts you about 3-4 seconds before you're empty. But with PP Convert you'd be able to continuously use it without any downtime, way better damage output than whatever you must be doing.

Nafoie is better than Ilfoie for sustained DPS, Ilfoie is more for wiping out mobs as they spawn. Pretty awful outside of set spawn points like in TD or TAs, but it does better than anything else in those scenarios.

[Achelousaurus]

Thanks.

And yeah, normally dmg is 300-400 but I don't like having to heal after every hit and dying from any slightly stronger hit (XH and stuff).

Also, I still want to zondeel and that is risky or slow cause I mirage step right after.
I haven't used it that much so I still need to find a way to do it consistently without getting hit and while using a tech right after.

[Sizustar]

Thanks.

And yeah, normally dmg is 300-400 but I don't like having to heal after every hit and dying from any slightly stronger hit (XH and stuff).

Also, I still want to zondeel and that is risky or slow cause I mirage step right after.
I haven't used it that much so I still need to find a way to do it consistently without getting hit and while using a tech right after.

Try casting it while in mid jump, or using it with a tali.

[Z-0]

Wands / Jet Boots are also great for dangerous Zondeels, since you can immediately step out of techniques right after you cast them, plus they have step attack which lets you attack sooner than if you were to Mirage Escape out.

[LonelyGaruga]

And yeah, normally dmg is 300-400 but I don't like having to heal after every hit and dying from any slightly stronger hit (XH and stuff).

Also, I still want to zondeel and that is risky or slow cause I mirage step right after.
I haven't used it that much so I still need to find a way to do it consistently without getting hit and while using a tech right after.

Brilliant Resta craft lets you heal to full with an uncharged Resta, but the best solution really is to just not get hit. A Force player is generally fine with 500-600 HP, just need to play smart.

Zondeel from Talis is an option, like Sizustar mentioned, and so is using Step from Wand (but you don't have Wand Lovers, do you not intend to use Elysion?) or Jet Boots, like Z-0 mentioned, but you can also just watch all the enemies you're Zondeeling up and take measures to avoid any attacks that any of them might be in the middle of. Or just wait until they attack before releasing Zondeel. It sounds like you just need practice with Zondeel though, nothing particularly complicated. Watching videos of players on Nico and YT could help too, if you aren't already doing that.

[ShinMaruku]

I get 1 shoted at 700 hp with those stupid ass attacks by bosses mainly. Or if I get double tagged by those punting monster. Serously sega you buff their speed and you still heal the old rate, not thinking. They are almost as stupid as ubisoft Jesus Christ. But yeah Just need to play smart.

[Achelousaurus]

Yeah, I know you can zondeel without getting hit, I need to practice more and see which is best for more.
Switching weapons isn't feasible for my cause it may take a full second even without special lag.

I decided to also forego talis tech boost in favor of lightning on my fo tree, maxing boost 1 and 1 point in getting boost 2. High powered Zandeon sounds nice, I can get an Eylsion for nice Sazonde combos and in general I got more techs to use on mechs.

For wind I'll also get an Elysion, but that sadly means waiting a good while to use it. Even if I start putting points into s-atk on te now it's at least 4 lvls.