Force Discussion

[lnvisible]

Since someone in another thread noted we actually didn't have one.. here have some force discussion. Discuss?

[Stickboy]

How to barta?

[Magus_84]

Think we'll get more mixed-element techs like Zandeon in the future? (Which I haven't used yet because I'm only at 60, but I hear good things).

[LonelyGaruga]

How to barta?

Barta as in the tech itself or ice techs in general?


Think we'll get more mixed-element techs like Zandeon in the future?

Certainly so. When new PAs/techs are released in small batches (as has been done with this batch), more small batches are released (presumably with each following UQ) until all weapons and all tech elements get covered. Since Zandeon is a composite tech that covers lightning and wind, it is most likely that Sega will release two other composite techs to cover the remaining elements.

Since Sega claimed that the intent of multi-element techs was to encourage Fo/Te and Te/Fo play (not that they could ever succeed with the latter), it is most likely that the other two composite techs will be a combination of a Force and Techer element. Meaning either Fire + Dark and Ice + Light or Fire + Light and Ice + Dark. My bet's on the former pair.

[Maenara]

I was a Force once. Then I took a rifle to the knee.

[Stickboy]

Barta as in the tech itself or ice techs in general?

the tech itself, derp. i kept missing mobs that are running to the side. note that im still using my old ice motav 'cuz nepto rod is uber expensive for me. (heck, all element rods and talis are expensive)

[LonelyGaruga]

Barta is inaccurate at long ranges. You can TPS with it, but that doesn't work well with a Talis. It'd be more effective to use Gibarta, Sabarta, or Ilbarta for long range targets that you can't accurately aim at.

[horseship]

Would agree with LonelyGaruga. Use Barta in TPS mode with a rod, or don't use it at all.

Now, question of my own: Concentrated or Ice Fang Ilbarta? I have both a 50 ice Elysion and Nepto Rod that I use for ice techs. Currently have concentrated, but was wondering if 6x uncharged and 1x charged with Ice Fang Ilbarta would be better.

By the way, uncharged Zanverse before the 7th Ilbarta rocks. Especially as FO/FI, since you get the TAJA bonus from it too.

And on a side note we might as well get a hunter and ranger thread going too. It's quite a bit easier getting more specialized help than having your questions barely answered or completely glossed over in the simple questions thread, which I've seen before.

[lnvisible]

Would agree with LonelyGaruga. Use Barta in TPS mode with a rod, or don't use it at all.

Now, question of my own: Concentrated or Ice Fang Ilbarta? I have both a 50 ice Elysion and Nepto Rod that I use for ice techs. Currently have concentrated, but was wondering if 6x uncharged and 1x charged with Ice Fang Ilbarta would be better.

By the way, uncharged Zanverse before the 7th Ilbarta rocks. Especially as FO/FI, since you get the TAJA bonus from it too.

And on a side note we might as well get a hunter and ranger thread going too. It's quite a bit easier getting more specialized help than having your questions barely answered or completely glossed over in the simple questions thread, which I've seen before.

I would think if you're spamming with ely then ice fang would be better. And I can second that hunter/ranger thread. It's kinda weird they don't exist already.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I assumed this thread just super old and buried. Didn't think there just wasn't one.

[Perfect Chaos]

Since Zandeon is a composite tech that covers lightning and wind, it is most likely that Sega will release two other composite techs to cover the remaining elements.

Since Sega claimed that the intent of multi-element techs was to encourage Fo/Te and Te/Fo play (not that they could ever succeed with the latter), it is most likely that the other two composite techs will be a combination of a Force and Techer element. Meaning either Fire + Dark and Ice + Light or Fire + Light and Ice + Dark. My bet's on the former pair.It'll be great if Sega will eventually release all 15 combinations (but that seems a bit too much). Going with the thought of them trying to promote the FO+TE combination (do they even need to promote this combination?), it's always possible that they'll have other combinations after the first 3 get introduced. That'll give us a total of 9. Doesn't seem as ridiculous as 15, but getting to 9 at this pace will still take like a whole year. I personally would want a "Twilight" Dark + Light one, but that's purely on Techter's tree, so it probably won't happen. And I, too, think it's going to be Fire + Dark and Ice + Light, for some reason.
But having multiple of these techniques does seem a bit overpowered if they are able to be used independently of each other, as you can spam one after the other. I can see them making it so that all of them run off of the same meter. You charge all at once, but if you use any one of them, it takes up the charge and you have to recharge the meter to use any of them again.

PS: I've always wondered why I couldn't ever find the thread for Force in this forum...

[Z-0]

Has anybody actually found any practical uses for Zandeon that are actually more useful than other things you could do (for example, one-shotting Mizer with Zandeon)? Since it's not faster than Ilzonde either from my experience (although I might be wrong), it's much better to spam that when you just want to kill and move on.

Zandeon seems like a really weak tech to me -- it may do 17 hits of 10K or whatever, but it has a full second charge, requires you to be on your target, takes an eternity to actually fully execute and cannot properly be concentrated on many weak points. You'd be faster using whatever the most efficient tech is at the time, rather than using Zandeon. Add to the fact that for proper damage, you need to have lightning and wind masteries.

The only real use I've found for Zandeon is killing a boss when it's at low enough HP and I feel like I might fuck up and die, since Zandeon has full i-frames once you get it going, although if you don't kill, you may very well get hit on the exit as I've accidently done once or twice. . _.

[Ordy]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25015792

[Hrith]

Funny.

Making my manly dewman scream 'I'm a pretty girl' is a use for Zandeon.

It's good to use when neither Ketos Proi nor PP Convert is available, too.

[Stickboy]

Used on bal rodos when he's down, it flew in static in his mouth and currently dealt 20k per hit

What to craft on sazonde? I planned to craft swift ones for less PP use on elysion

[lnvisible]

Used on bal rodos when he's down, it flew in static in his mouth and currently dealt 20k per hit

What to craft on sazonde? I planned to craft swift ones for less PP use on elysion

Yeah, swift is generally better.

[Aine]

Has anybody actually found any practical uses for Zandeon that are actually more useful than other things you could do (for example, one-shotting Mizer with Zandeon)? Since it's not faster than Ilzonde either from my experience (although I might be wrong), it's much better to spam that when you just want to kill and move on.

Zandeon seems like a really weak tech to me -- it may do 17 hits of 10K or whatever, but it has a full second charge, requires you to be on your target, takes an eternity to actually fully execute and cannot properly be concentrated on many weak points. You'd be faster using whatever the most efficient tech is at the time, rather than using Zandeon. Add to the fact that for proper damage, you need to have lightning and wind masteries.

The only real use I've found for Zandeon is killing a boss when it's at low enough HP and I feel like I might fuck up and die, since Zandeon has full i-frames once you get it going, although if you don't kill, you may very well get hit on the exit as I've accidently done once or twice. . _.

Isn't Zandeon stepping the fastest way to move without PP? It's the same as charge stepping except it costs no PP, so you can step indefinitely as long as you have a wand equipped and Wand Lovers activated. I'm a TA noob so I don't know about all the new steps these days though...

[Z-0]

check bottom post

[LonelyGaruga]

Yeah, swift is generally better.

Eh, Supercharged is roughly 32% more damage at max merit. Sazonde is the only tech that does more damage uncharged with Elysion than fully charged (66% uncharged, 0.66 * 1.7 = 1.122, or 112%, full charge is 100% damage), so it's effectively a power notation of 1113, as opposed to Swift Sazonde's power of 844 (difference of 269 instead of 240 like the craft adds). Not too sure the -4 PP really helps that much compared to the extra damage, though the speed demerit on the power recipe can lead to whiffs on some bosses if you're too far away, something Swift wouldn't have to deal with.

[Terrence]

Since Sega claimed that the intent of multi-element techs was to encourage Fo/Te and Te/Fo play (not that they could ever succeed with the latter)
When I don't use my TEchter/BOuncer, I play as Techter/FOrce. Anyway, I still Main TEchter since having +25% HP, +10% ATK and 3 minutes S/D with one cast is really appreciated.
Of course, you can do way better damage as a FOrce/TEcher... FOrce/TEchter, you know the ones who paper the floor on Ultimate Naberius with 500 HP/DEF because "hail powaaaaa" !

[Z-0]

Sazonde does more damage uncharged per tick than charged even without Elysion, which is far more important than the total damage each Sazonde does when it comes to DPS. Personally, I would much more recommend power over swift. Wand with step can evade bosses so incredibly easily and still keep Sazonde ticking on your boss since it's so fast.

Also:


Isn't Zandeon stepping the fastest way to move without PP? It's the same as charge stepping except it costs no PP, so you can step indefinitely as long as you have a wand equipped and Wand Lovers activated. I'm a TA noob so I don't know about all the new steps these days though...
Deleted my last post because corrections:

Yes, this is a great use for Zandeon, thanks for suggesting it! Now, the reason I said earlier that subpalette cancelling is slower than weapon palette cancelling is because if your weapon gets sheathed when casting techs (so anything that isn't a wand or jet boots in this case, although you need wand for Zandeon), tech cancelling becomes much slower. First time I ever tested this was with Gunslash (Aiming Shot), hence why I came to that conclusion.

[LonelyGaruga]

When I don't use my TEchter/BOuncer, I play as Techter/FOrce. Anyway, I still Main TEchter since having +25% HP, +10% ATK and 3 minutes S/D with one cast is really appreciated.
Of course, you can do way better damage as a FOrce/TEcher... FOrce/TEchter, you know the ones who paper the floor on Ultimate Naberius with 500 HP/DEF because "hail powaaaaa" !

And you'd do even better to go Te/Hu, Te/Fi, or Te/Br if you wanted to main Techer. Shifta Strike is still 15-20% weaker than Element Conversion, depending on 13* or not, so mentioning that like it's an advantage isn't very smart.

Try again please.

[ReverseSeraf]

Isn't Zandeon stepping the fastest way to move without PP? It's the same as charge stepping except it costs no PP, so you can step indefinitely as long as you have a wand equipped and Wand Lovers activated. I'm a TA noob so I don't know about all the new steps these days though...

I'd also say there'd be some interesting applications of Zandeon aside from stepping in a TA setting if you take advantage of the bug where you're moving up diagonally. But I haven't played PSO2 seriously the past weeks to confirm this. Maybe someone else can?

[Z-0]

You can't control the flying Zandeon, so it's not really that useful unfortunately. Only place I can think of is getting out of the Banther room quickly in Nab 2, since that would actually be faster, rather than having to waste time platforming.

Skipping the ramps in Area 2 of Lilipa skips the Guardiane spawns, too, so it's pointless. If you're too high, you miss the spawn (I've done it with Jet Boots Ilzonde sometimes, really annoying).

Can't think of anywhere else it could be useful...

[ReverseSeraf]

Accessing the area blocked by the huge block after you're done platforming in A1 Amd TA? I vaguely remember someone taking advantage of Jetboots to jump over it completely (no, I don't think normal double jump worked. The person had to do like a millisecond weapon switch in-between to achieve like a triple-quadruple jump). So no need to wait for the 2 El Ahdas, 2 Katargots to die.

EDIT:
But then again, can't really advance to next area without pressing those two buttons after those four Darkers die. Nvm. It's dependent on what kind of strategy you'd like to employ, I suppose

[Z-0]

Don't think you can get Zandeon by that time, unless you're solo'ing or something, and then the strategy is useless, really.

That being said, I don't think it would save time if you could do it, as the person who goes over the wall with the catapult doesn't have to kill anything if you're running properly, which brings up the catapult before people get to it:

[spoiler-box]http://puu.sh/dwgpu/7d93b5c1ca.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[STNFCST]

The VH lobby players expect me to solo TD1 one tower really? Being level 45/26 Fo/Te. Not sure if they stupid or not.

But one thing I noted that they willingly to first strike(ignoring my rappy talis) so I refuse using zondeel in such sitation at best only capture 3-4 during mob travels. As standing in front burn all my pp and covering two spots.

[ReverseSeraf]

Don't think you can get Zandeon by that time, unless you're solo'ing or something, and then the strategy is useless, really.

That being said, I don't think it would save time if you could do it, as the person who goes over the wall with the catapult doesn't have to kill anything if you're running properly, which brings up the catapult before people get to it:

[spoiler-box]http://puu.sh/dwgpu/7d93b5c1ca.jpg[/spoiler-box]

Wasn't really quite sure how fast Zandeon charged, so I'll take your word for it. It was a possibility, but your explanation's fair. Guess it's really to remove concerns of platforming in some areas.


The VH lobby players expect me to solo TD1 one tower really? Being level 45/26 Fo/Te. Not sure if they stupid or not.

But one thing I noted that they willingly to first strike(ignoring my rappy talis) so I refuse using zondeel in such sitation at best only capture 3-4 during mob travels. As standing in front burn all my pp and covering two spots.

I don't get where you're going with this.

[Z-0]

People on PUG blocks play TD1 is a very unorthodox way (that doesn't really work, mind you). Half of the people seem to think they're most useful just running around collecting crystals, some of them try to solo at the north point despite being weak, some just wait at the tower until mobs get there, some follow all the enemies on the map with no real sort of plan, etc. etc.

If you're playing random parties for EQs, don't expect great parties.

[STNFCST]

Those are common.

But the unusually behavoir lies that they ignore zondeel when I am spawnpoint and when I play at tower one of the player moving on at spawn. Repeat those players doing same next TD run.

[Stickboy]

how many ppl go fo/br? i can't into it 'cuz of shit pp regen

[Sandmind]

Those are common.

But the unusually behavoir lies that they ignore zondeel when I am spawnpoint and when I play at tower one of the player moving on at spawn. Repeat those players doing same next TD run.

Similar to what Z-0 said, those sound like points hogger to me. It's not about completing TD fast and effectively, oh no, it's about personal score for them.

[Sizustar]

how many ppl go fo/br? i can't into it 'cuz of shit pp regen

That isn't really suited for solo play, it's more useful for Eqs, such as TD, where you can stay in the back and deal max damage, you also want to equip a gunslash such as クイーンヴィエラ that enable you to recover PP quickly.

[ReverseSeraf]

Fo/Br is a pretty potent class, but I feel like there needs to be some stuff set up in order for them to shine.

1. You're right in that PP is a problem, which is why a Gunslash with PP recovery is highly recommended. If it's against smaller mobs, you could get away with Zondeel -> step attack with DS/katana.
2. In a situation like TD, if someone is Zondeeling for the Fo/Br, they can literally 1-shot the Golrahdas in SH with a well-placed Ilfoie (probably 2 or 3 in XH).
3. Your PB of choice will most likely be Ketos Proi, but I've seen some skilled Fo/Br get away with Julius Nifta.
4. They have access to Banishing Arrow, which you can do some pretty neat stuff with.

EDIT:
Overall, I feel like Fo/Br has a higher skill cap because there's much more emphasis on you utilizing your techs to their full extent. It's not so much an issue for Fo/Te because of their insane PP regen capabilities, but if you so happened to mess up with a Fo/Br, that's just some downtime for you -> loss of DPS.

[Perfect Chaos]

I max leveled my BR from scratch for the sole purpose of doing TD1 and TD2, and I have never regretted the extra time spent. The downtime between waves helps as you can regenerate PP with Splendid Recovery potential on something like Seras Cure during it. (Waves in TD3 take too long, so PP management becomes too much of a hassle.) My build has roughly 240 PP, so with Zondeel assist, a mob goes down before I come close to running out of PP. I'm also very glad I picked up the Queen Vieira gunslash to replace the Call Cipher, since the extra bit of PP regen helps when you need it. Also, having a Mag with PP Restore J is useful, since you also have the option of not feeding your Mag at all until you need that short burst of PP regen.
Now, if only they would introduce 12* crafting, then I would care for Edel Arrow for PP regen purposes.

[IKnowsTJ]

I play FO/BR and have been FO/BR for a very long time. As stated earlier, you can get over the pp problems by carrying a gunslash, but also crafting techs for -pp has greatly improved my gameplay. With the release of the Rikauteri, banish arrow shenanigans are in full effect and I'm not complaining :D

[milranduil]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25015792

FoBr does more against non-matching element, but only non-matching element weakpoint. FoTe gets the crown otherwise.

[spoiler-box]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sIez0MOLaU
[/spoiler-box]

[Hysteria1987]

Similar to what Z-0 said, those sound like points hogger to me. It's not about completing TD fast and effectively, oh no, it's about personal score for them.

This has always been a pet peeve of mine. I'd understand if the placings actually did something, but as it stands it's just annoying (easy for me to say perhaps, I play a fire/light FO/TE so I end up in the top 3 a fair bit- the better the chance the less other FO's there are! =P).

Someone had a go at me once for not being at the towers to fight, being up the front instead. Maybe if they'd bothered to learn to spawnkill I could have gotten a third run in.

Oh well :-P

[MegiForce]

So I keep hearing that Fo/Br is another way to go than just Fo/Te, but what about Fo/Fi? I can't find any current videos of their gameplay. Of course they have pp problems like Fo/Br, but is the main reason that Fo/Br is used over Fo/Fi because bows against bosses (e.g. banishing arrow + il barta)? Though Fo/Fi would require more strategy and work than mindlessly spamming the same tech over and over again. For example, switching between front and wise stance along with incorporating tech arts JA bonus.

I can see an ice Fo/Fi doing well in UQ switching between ra/gibarta with freeze keep keeping the mobs frozen and chase advance plus dishing out more damage.

As a side note, zondeel+wise stance seems cool with the mobs facing inwards .

[taizero00]

FoBr does more against non-matching element, but only non-matching element weakpoint. FoTe gets the crown otherwise.

[spoiler-box]
ザンディオン (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sIez0MOLaU)
[/spoiler-box]

Don't forget this combo too XD
http://nicotter.net/watch/sm24964662

IF you wanna see more, check my channel...FO/GU is fun to play and dont have alot of problem with pp and got a survival skill too
[spoiler-box]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPg-xhIgeo4
[/spoiler-box]

[ReverseSeraf]

So I keep hearing that Fo/Br is another way to go than just Fo/Te, but what about Fo/Fi? I can't find any current videos of their gameplay. Of course they have pp problems like Fo/Br, but is the main reason that Fo/Br is used over Fo/Fi because bows against bosses (e.g. banishing arrow + il barta)? Though Fo/Fi would require more strategy and work than mindlessly spamming the same tech over and over again. For example, switching between front and wise stance along with incorporating tech arts JA bonus.

I can see an ice Fo/Fi doing well in UQ switching between ra/gibarta with freeze keep keeping the mobs frozen and chase advance plus dishing out more damage.

As a side note, zondeel+wise stance seems cool with the mobs facing inwards .

If I recall correctly from other people, Fo/Fi can be the strongest Fo class combination out there now that they added T-ATK to the slayer skills and Tech Arts JA, but it's still much more conditional. This is purely off vague memory, since I'm too lazy to do the math now.

Also, Fo/Br is used not only because of access to Banishing Arrow, but because Weak Stance applies to elemental weakpoints as well, so it's much easier to work with than the conditions needed to dish out maximum damage as a Fo/Fi. Also, Fo/Br doesn't spam the same tech over and over again, since their damage comes from matching elements. Of course, some techs shine over others within specific elements, but it's not like LOLILMEGIDMASTERRACE back in the days. So it's not as mindless as you make it out to be.

Zondeel + Wise Stance wouldn't really work the way you think it would, since Fi stances rely on your position relative to the enemies'. If a scenario like how you described did turn up, then the only 2 outcomes would be Wise Stance wouldn't apply at all since you're right in the middle and the mobs are facing you (or at least I think it wouldn't), or it would only apply to half of the enemies if you were even remotely off the middle.

[horseship]

I did some brief testing to compare fo/fi and fo/br damage on Rockbear and found that fo/fi damage indeed comes out on top, at least for the final hit of Ilbarta with TAJA and PP Slayer active. I hit around 400k as fo/fi and only around 350k as fo/br, 72/75/70 fo/fi/br. Banish the last two hits of Ilbarta though and fo/br definitely comes out on top for bossing.

A few things I have to say about fo/fi (specifically ice fo/fi):

The thing I like most about the combo is that you don't really have to follow elemental weaknesses like fo/te or fo/br, because fo/fi has no skills that boost EWH damage. Fo/br requires 3 force trees to be as effective as possible, while a single element fo/fi tree can potentially do well everywhere. Ice is also a very well rounded element with good options for mobbing and bossing, so I'd say ice fo/fi is definitely a viable option for freemium users or users who just don't want to buy extra skill trees. Good luck getting a Nepto Rod as a freemium user though.

Fighter stances really aren't that hard to utilize. Sure they're annoying sometimes, but for the most part you'll just be steamrolling things in brave stance. Tech arts JA is also a nice bonus, but you don't have to utilize it all the time. If you kill things faster by spamming the same tech over and over, it's better to just do that instead of trying to utilize TAJA whenever possible. I find TAJA most useful for getting a little extra damage after casting a support tech rather than actually comboing. Zanverse -> 7th ilbarta and zondeel -> any tech is where TAJA shines the most, but you can use it with megiverse, resta, and shifta too. You don't even have to charge shifta if you're just using it for yourself, since two ticks with adrenaline gives you the full duration of the buff.

As for pp issues, I don't really have them except when I'm fighting bosses with Ilbarta. Running out of pp generally means you're playing inefficiently or you're not dealing enough damage, so try to make the most out of your pp bar and take out a gunslash if you have to.

[ReverseSeraf]

Fo/br requires 3 force trees to be as effective as possible, while a single element fo/fi tree can

I wouldn't say it's a requirement. It's definitely nice, but definitely not a requirement. All your techs get boosted by Weak Stance (assuming you match). Same thing with Brave/Wise (except you don't have to match).

Fo/Te probably is in more need of multiple Fo trees than either Fo/Br or Fo/Fi.

[LonelyGaruga]

I wouldn't say it's a requirement. It's definitely nice, but definitely not a requirement.


Fo/br requires 3 force trees to be as effective as possible, while a single element fo/fi tree can potentially do well everywhere.

In this context, it is a requirement.

[ReverseSeraf]

In this context, it is a requirement.

Even within that context, I disagree. Both Fo/Br and Fo/Fi have the potential to do well everywhere with one skill tree. Just Fo/Fi doesn't face the element-matching restriction.

EDIT:
I guess what I'm saying now is basically what I said before... to rephrase:

Even within that context, I disagree. Both classes can potentially do well everywhere with one skill tree.

If what we're considering to be "as effective as possible" is doing more damage for each respective element, then Fire/Ice/Lightning Fo/Fi is no exception. If you're a Fire Fo/Fi, you'd be doing optimal damage by using fire techs, but that's not necessarily saying your techs of other elements are significantly suffering. The same applies for Fire/Ice/Lightning Fo/Br.

I think differentiating the classes based on that is somewhat misleading, though I can definitely see why such a viewpoint would occur.

[landman]

I've always been a rainbow element FO/TE, but since the tech rebalance I have yet to test all techs again and see if my three of each choice in my weapon palette is enough or if I should have like 3-4 element palettes, now that we can save those it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm still currently using: Gifoie, ilfoie, foie, gibarta, ilbarta, nabarta, sazonde, gizonde, zonde, gigrants, grants, ilgrants, ilmegid, namegid, gimegid, Sazan, zan and ilzan. The extra palette has zondeel and razan as utility techs (I only use razan to turn garongos upside down).

What techs that I'm not using should I check? I recognise some of those I barely use them any-more, instead of foie now I use ilzan in TPS, gimegid I only use it on catedransa or zondeeled groups, and zan.... I use it to cut grass lol


FOrce/TEchter, you know the ones who paper the floor on Ultimate Naberius with 500 HP/DEF because "hail powaaaaa" !

That would be the case if Ult enemies actually dealt a lot more damage than SH ones, but they don't...

[MegiForce]

If I recall correctly from other people, Fo/Fi can be the strongest Fo class combination out there now that they added T-ATK to the slayer skills and Tech Arts JA, but it's still much more conditional. This is purely off vague memory, since I'm too lazy to do the math now.

Also, Fo/Br is used not only because of access to Banishing Arrow, but because Weak Stance applies to elemental weakpoints as well, so it's much easier to work with than the conditions needed to dish out maximum damage as a Fo/Fi. Also, Fo/Br doesn't spam the same tech over and over again, since their damage comes from matching elements. Of course, some techs shine over others within specific elements, but it's not like LOLILMEGIDMASTERRACE back in the days. So it's not as mindless as you make it out to be.

Zondeel + Wise Stance wouldn't really work the way you think it would, since Fi stances rely on your position relative to the enemies'. If a scenario like how you described did turn up, then the only 2 outcomes would be Wise Stance wouldn't apply at all since you're right in the middle and the mobs are facing you (or at least I think it wouldn't), or it would only apply to half of the enemies if you were even remotely off the middle.


Yea, I get that switching elements based on elemental weaknesses is key to Fo/Br, but once you get to the quest you're going for it's possible to stick with the same tech (since all mobs have the same weakness on the map except for darkers). Though you could argue about switching techs based on the range of the monsters, unless you use talis, but that goes with every fo main.

Zondeel + wise stance is definitely situational, but the position I've used it in is when the enemies face me in order to attack. That way, they face the center of the zondeel. I just quickly try to hop out of the vortex of doom and launch a tech before they try to kill me. xD

I agree with horeship on less reliance with elemental weaknesses for Fo/Fi compared to Fo/Br. That's probably their main selling point.

[ReverseSeraf]

Yea, I get that switching elements based on elemental weaknesses is key to Fo/Br, but once you get to the quest you're going for it's possible to stick with the same tech (since all mobs have the same weakness on the map except for darkers). Though you could argue about switching techs based on the range of the monsters, unless you use talis, but that goes with every fo main.

Zondeel + wise stance is definitely situational, but the position I've used it in is when the enemies face me in order to attack. That way, they face the center of the zondeel. I just quickly try to hop out of the vortex of doom and launch a tech before they try to kill me. xD

I agree with horeship on less reliance with elemental weaknesses for Fo/Fi compared to Fo/Br. That's probably their main selling point.

It definitely is Fo/Fi's selling point! I was just correcting your earlier assumption that Fo/Br spam the same tech over and over again. In fact, it's just detrimental.

[Z-0]

No Fo combination is the same tech over and over again, if we're talking about efficiency. No class is. . -. While it may work, it ain't efficient.

[ReverseSeraf]

I'm still currently using: Gifoie, ilfoie, foie, gibarta, ilbarta, nabarta, sazonde, gizonde, zonde, gigrants, grants, ilgrants, ilmegid, namegid, gimegid, Sazan, zan and ilzan. The extra palette has zondeel and razan as utility techs (I only use razan to turn garongos upside down).

What techs that I'm not using should I check? I recognise some of those I barely use them any-more, instead of foie now I use ilzan in TPS, gimegid I only use it on catedransa or zondeeled groups, and zan.... I use it to cut grass lol

I guess I'll list some techs along with the craft you want to look for:

Fire techs: Foie (Blazing or Efficient), Rafoie (Blazing), Nafoie (Blazing or Efficient)

Lightning techs: Razonde (Supercharged), Ilzonde (Concentrated)

Ice techs: I've heard Barta is pretty good now, though I haven't tested myself

Wind techs: Nazan (Windslicer), Zanverse (if you like supporting)

Light techs: Ragrants (Concentrated)

Dark techs: Megid (Umbral) and Ramegid (Umbral) are pretty good.

I'll assume you already have good crafts for the techs you use. Someone's more than welcome to fill this list if I forgot to mention a tech.

[LonelyGaruga]

Nafoie doesn't have an Efficient recipe, it has a Concentrated recipe. Ramegid's Concentrated recipe about halves its charge time (and adds +15 to its poison rate), way better than Umbral.

I'd add Safoie (Blazing), Sabarta (Ice Fang, use uncharged), and Samegid (Concentrated) to that list too.

[horseship]

I like charged Wide Sabarta for its pp efficiency, although I do understand that it might not be the best option most of the time just because of the terrible charge time. Ice Fang Sabarta's demerit certainly doesn't help with that, but the Wide craft gives it a nice and large AoE while the damage is still decent for both single target and mobbing.

[ReverseSeraf]

Nafoie doesn't have an Efficient recipe, it has a Concentrated recipe. Ramegid's Concentrated recipe about halves its charge time (and adds +15 to its poison rate), way better than Umbral.

I'd add Safoie (Blazing), Sabarta (Ice Fang, use uncharged), and Samegid (Concentrated) to that list too.

Oops, typo. Yeah, I meant Concentrated Nafoie.

Well, anything that has a power reduction demerit is a huge turn-off for me, so not quite sure whether Concentrated Ramegid is my cup of tea, though I do see the merit for getting it. I chose Umbral not only of the power merit, but also the PP reduction effect.

I never really liked Samegid. Something about that tech seemed.. off. Guess I'll give it another go.

[MegiForce]

It definitely is Fo/Fi's selling point! I was just correcting your earlier assumption that Fo/Br spam the same tech over and over again. In fact, it's just detrimental.
Yea, sorry. Poor choice of words there.


No Fo combination is the same tech over and over again, if we're talking about efficiency. No class is. . -. While it may work, it ain't efficient.
Overexaggeration on my part. I was thinking of the "filthy casual" way of playing and ilmegid spammers (which don't quite exist anymore), but as you said they're definitely inefficient. Just making a stereotype, which we all know doesn't encompass everyone. And again, my bad. I should stop stepping on everyone's toes. xD

Since we're more or less talking about crafted techs right now, are crafted fire techs still considered great or did they get nerfed somehow? I remember reading earlier that people thought they should be nerfed, but this was a couple months ago. xD

[ReverseSeraf]

Since we're more or less talking about crafted techs right now, are crafted fire techs still considered great or did they get nerfed somehow? I remember reading earlier that people thought they should be nerfed, but this was a couple months ago. xD

They're definitely helpful. Even if they were nerfed to hell (which didn't really happen), a little upgrade is still an upgrade.

Foie: Blazing or Efficient
Gifoie: Concentrated (though, if you're going with a Fire Fo tree, may not be necessary) or Blazing
Rafoie: Blazing
Safoie: Efficient or Blazing
Shifta: Multi
Nafoie: Concentrated (same deal with Gifoie) or Blazing
Ilfoie: (I personally don't like any crafts on Ilfoie, but some people seem to enjoy Efficient)

[LonelyGaruga]

Well, anything that has a power reduction demerit is a huge turn-off for me, so not quite sure whether Concentrated Ramegid is my cup of tea, though I do see the merit for getting it. I chose Umbral not only of the power merit, but also the PP reduction effect.

Power merits aren't that great. Ramegid's power recipe is ~6% more damage than regular Ramegid. Not worth losing out on a ~50% charge time reduction, even if you lose out further on 3-6% damage. The PP reduction on Umbral is only 25 > 22, not a big difference either. Good luck poisoning something with that 2-11% poison rate, too.

Guess I should make an overall list of tech craft suggestions.

Foie: Blazing or Efficient (leaning toward Efficient, 8 PP is really nice)
Gi Foie: Blazing (already .5s charge time, not much benefit from Concentrated)
Ra Foie: Blazing (Wide if you really want to burn something, 37 burn rate)
Shifta: Multi or Concentrated (Multi gets faster ticks, Concentrated gets wider range so more people get ticks)
Sa Foie: Blazing or Efficient (leaning toward Blazing, -range demerit on Efficient hurts but for bossing it seems really PP efficient)
Na Foie: Blazing (same deal as Gi Foie)
Il Foie: Concentrated or no craft (both recipes take a lot of damage off Il Foie, so no craft is an option if the charge time reduction isn't worthwhile, even as a fire tech, Concentrated is still .4s less than standard at max merit, which is a little less than standard, but still good)

Barta: Efficient or Ice Fang 2 (Ice Fang 3 has a .1s charge time penalty at best and is only about 2% stronger than Ice Fang 2, comparing max merits, doesn't seem worthwhile when the freeze bonus is its strong point)
Gi Barta: Ice Fang or Efficient (Ice Fang is stronger, Efficient is highly spammable and charges faster, if only a little, leaning toward Efficient for dealing with massive/bulky spawns)
Ra Barta: Multi (Ice Fang is weaker)
Deband: Same as Shifta
Sa Barta: Ice Fang or no craft (swap no for Wide if Sabarta can actually hit more than one enemy, no craft/Wide for charged usage, Ice Fang for uncharged usage)
Il Barta: Ice Fang (Concentrated if you're not using Elysion)

Zonde: Concentrated
Gi Zonde: Supercharged
Ra Zonde: Supercharged
Sa Zonde: Supercharged or Swift (Supercharged is a huge damage bonus, Swift is more PP efficient so you can spam it with Elysion more, leaning toward Supercharged)
Zondeel: Fierce
Na Zonde: Concentrated (Supercharged adds almost no damage)
Il Zonde: Concentrated (Supercharged adds a lot of damage, but between the charge time demerit and the fact Il Zonde is best used for travel...no)

Zan: Concentrated or Windslicer (leaning toward Concentrated, I remember being told that the speed merit on Windslicer was useful, but I've got no solid reasoning backing that, so benefit of the doubt requires me to mention it)
Gi Zan: Windslicer or Concentrated (Windslicer is roughly ~20% more damage, which is nice, but it has worse range, though Windslicer 2 has almost the same damage and a PP demerit instead of range, while Concentrated is a ~.5s charge time reduction and costs less PP, leaning toward Concentrated)
Ra Zan: Multi or Windslicer (Windslicer for Elysion usage, Multi otherwise)
Sa Zan: Efficient (Windslicer is ~15% more damage, but I don't think the PP cost justifies it...but it does warrant an honorable mention)
Na Zan: Windslicer or Concentrated (Windslicer for Elysion usage, Concentrated otherwise)
Zanverse: Concentrated (uncharged is awful and charge time demerit on Efficient is ugh)
Il Zan: Concentrated or no craft (never did find out if Wide was width or length...assuming length, if width then it's a valid option)

Grants: Efficient
Gi Grants: Concentrated
Ra Grants: Concentrated
Resta: Brilliant (almost doubles the amount per healed, way better than Multi)
Anti: Concentrated or Efficient (Concentrated if you ever intend to support someone, Efficient if you only ever use it for yourself)
Na Grants: Multi or Brilliant (Multi has a .1s charge time demerit at best, but has more damage than Brilliant and higher panic rate. If 1.3s is too slow for you, go Brilliant, otherwise, go Multi)
Il Grants: Swift or Brilliant (-10-20 panic rate for faster charge time isn't too bad, but if you prefer the 40 panic rate, Brilliant is roughly ~7% stronger, though the speed demerit means it has worse range, so if both demerits are unbearable, no craft is an option)

Megid: Umbral or Efficient (Umbral is ~25% stronger, which is a huge jump, while Efficient makes Megid extremely low cost in PP, something dark techs sorely lack, and gives a slight charge time increase to boot)
Gi Megid: Concentrated (.3s charge time at max merit and hits almost as hard as Ra Grants, with a PP cost demerit putting it at 17 PP, almost half of what Ra Grants has, definitely worth losing out on the ~14% damage from Umbral)
Ra Megid: Concentrated (.5s charge time is great, and it has the highest poison rate among all dark techs with the +15% poison rate)
Sa Megid: Concentrated (Umbral is ~11% more damage, but Concentrated charges almost twice as fast and costs a little bit less PP, making it more spammable in every way, makes up for the damage loss)
Megiverse: Concentrated or Efficient (Concentrated is better for supporting others and healing during long animation super armored attacks, Efficient is better for quick heals that cost little PP)
Na Megid: Umbral
Il Megid: Umbral

Think that should do it. Suggestions are welcome, this is only intended as a rough draft currently.


Since we're more or less talking about crafted techs right now, are crafted fire techs still considered great or did they get nerfed somehow? I remember reading earlier that people thought they should be nerfed, but this was a couple months ago. xD

Fire techs in general are overpowered, not simply their craft recipes. That said, they haven't been nerfed in any form or fashion, ever, since EP3 launched, even though they were obviously overpowered from its outset.

[landman]

I'll assume you already have good crafts for the techs you use. Someone's more than welcome to fill this list if I forgot to mention a tech.
The truth is... I try to avoid as much RNG as I can, being disk hunt on rare enemy the only thing I've ever farmed in this game. So tech crafting is another thing I've also avoided, I'll read all those suggestions and see what I'm loosing.

[Z-0]

Never bother "avoiding" RNG completely. It makes sense to possibly avoid trying to roll for really high things, but at least do the odd rolls or two which you'll 100% benefit from (which most definitely applies to tech crafting).

Many, many tech crafts now have literally no demerit (by that, it has SE reduction, lol), so any roll you get will benefit you immensely.

Also for Ilfoie I really recommend not crafting it. . . In the events you use it (mostly TD), your charge time is fast enough and you have time to prepare from intermissions anyway. Power is so much nicer, I'd say.
Even with my shitty build, with a few more points in T-Atk, I'm able to one shot Goldrahdas in SH TD with Ilfoie as FoTe. Right now I do 75,000 or so with a dewman using a +60 fire talis.

[Bellion]

Zanverse with reduced Ilfoie charge time makes it worth it, though. And you'll be able to get Zanverse to apply to more attacks before it disappears.

[Hysteria1987]

Resta: Brilliant (almost doubles the amount per healed, way better than Multi)
I do have one suggestion - I find the Resta one is pretty situation dependent. I use multi on my female newman FO/TE because she doesn't have all that much HP as it is, so doubling the amount healed wouldn't do me much good. Using multi, however, I get one more tick of healing in the event that I get slammed partway through my cast... which sadly, does happen.

So I guess the Resta one could be playstyle dependent?

[ReverseSeraf]

I do have one suggestion - I find the Resta one is pretty situation dependent. I use multi on my female newman FO/TE because she doesn't have all that much HP as it is, so doubling the amount healed wouldn't do me much good. Using multi, however, I get one more tick of healing in the event that I get slammed partway through my cast... which sadly, does happen.

So I guess the Resta one could be playstyle dependent?

The argument could be made that one Resta tick with Brilliant craft is all you would need to fully heal, negating the reason for Multi. But I do see where you're coming from.

[LonelyGaruga]

I do have one suggestion - I find the Resta one is pretty situation dependent. I use multi on my female newman FO/TE because she doesn't have all that much HP as it is, so doubling the amount healed wouldn't do me much good. Using multi, however, I get one more tick of healing in the event that I get slammed partway through my cast... which sadly, does happen.

Uncharged Brilliant Resta would give you a full heal, so you have a smaller window of vulnerability with no loss in restoration.

[Hysteria1987]

Fair enough, I hadn't actually considered uncharged. Worth a look in to then.

[Z-0]

Zanverse with reduced Ilfoie charge time makes it worth it, though. And you'll be able to get Zanverse to apply to more attacks before it disappears.
Hmm, good point, didn't think of that!

rng rolls let's go

[Perfect Chaos]

Il Grants: Swift or Brilliant (-10-20 panic rate for faster charge time isn't too bad, but if you prefer the 40 panic rate, Brilliant is roughly ~7% stronger, though the speed demerit means it has worse range, so if both demerits are unbearable, no craft is an option)

Gi Megid: Concentrated (.3s charge time at max merit and hits almost as hard as Ra Grants, with a PP cost demerit putting it at 16 PP, almost half of what Ra Grants has, definitely worth losing out on the ~14% damage from Umbral)I think Swift Il-Grants is the way to go, since the 0.25 second charge reduction is really great due to its above normal charge time. The panic demerit is nothing since you can get around a 95% chance of status if all 10 light streams hit as long as the demerit is above average.
40%-14%=26% chance of panic per hit=74% chance of no panic per hit=>(0.74)^10~4.924% chance of no panic after 10 hits (At the worst demerit, you'll still have over 89% chance of panic if all 10 hits.)
More range also helps a bit.

And the PP Cost reduction for Concentrated Gi-Megid is only -3 PP, so it costs 17 PP (but your point still stands).

[LonelyGaruga]

Status rates aren't on a per hit basis. Status notations work kinda like power notations, except much less accurate now that power notations are generally completely reliable. Presumably, the actual infliction rate is 120% of the given value, like how Ilgrants is with its power notation, which only puts it at 36% panic rate with all hits put together. If you have the minimum demerit, otherwise it can go as low as 24% with all hits. This, as opposed to the 48% total rate you would have with no craft. Again, assuming they work identically to their power notations, this is unfortunately something the JP wikis are quite unhelpful about. 48% rate for uncrafted sounds about right to me though, generally get a panic within two, rarely three casts, if the first one did not panic.

Can't really say range is much of a merit for Ilgrants, it goes about halfway across TD2's map as is. The charge time is the main draw, I feel.

Noted about Gimegid, not sure where I got the -4 from. Ah well.

[Hysteria1987]

So, how about a skill tree review? Always looking for opinions/improvement.


FO/TEnewearl (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIkbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbniN2SGA2XIb6cKIk00000ioIncKIdcAGNGAInIkfGAcA0 00000IbIo0000008doIb0000008)

Built this off memory so it may not be 100% accurate as to what I use, but near enough should be close enough. A few points-

* I'm running 1 element per class (Fire/Light)
* This build is specifically for FO main/TE sub, so I shouldn't take any TE main-only skills.
* I run a Rod, but I'm not averse to Talises (incidentally, if you recommend using a Talis, a specific recommendation would be great).
* I'm sure I'll get comments over Photon Flare =P I really do quite like it, but again, if there's something you feel I'd be better off with over that, please let me know.
* Same deal for the PP ups on the TE- it's my primary source of extra PP at the moment (Heiremjees and Folly set notwithstanding- I'm working on affixing a Saiki set which I may or may not craft for extra PP but it's slow and expensive).


Any comments are as always much appreciated.

[Sandmind]

FO:
-Talis Tech Bonus is pretty nice/easy for most/all tech that doesn't require positionning and can be worked with for most of the rest. But I agree that for general mobbing with techs like Gibarta for example, rod is better. Even if it might feel like only a 10% being ahead, the entire 20% multiply with affix, skill, etc.
-As a Rod only user, what about the new Rod Keep Bonus? I seem to remember the base skill didn't keep the JA bonus, but I feel it should be better having a lower damage tech to JA into, than none (unless if 7th Ilbarta hit or something).
-Not exactly a fan of PF if you're not using a PF latent'ed weapon, but I feel Tatk2 would be a wiser investment (and one less stuff to clutter your subpallettes).

TE:
-Element Weak Hit should be taken. Even if this was a single trees build, the bonus beat shifta advance by such a margin... hell, it apply to infection core iirc.
-Shifta Advance on no TE main, only if nothing better to get. Tatk up2 again, and it even boost regular shifta bonus too since it add to base Tatk.
-PP ups, only if you got nothing else to invest into, which isn't the case here. Not like FOTE are short on PP. (if even an average ice FOFI like me do ok in general...)
-Deband Advance, difference is too minuscule to matter without even Deband Cut...
-Super Treatment is nice, but heavily dependant on the situation. Still only 1 SP, so a staple imo.
-Territory PP Save, an helpfull bonus, even if only level 1.
-Resta Advance, a case of extra SP also, since it also scale from base Tatk (and ups).
-Wand stuff, some FOTE like to have 2 SP there for those time being able to step or wand wacking is helpfull. So it's an option.

[horseship]

You absolutely want to have Talis Tech Bonus and Element Weak Hit on a FO/TE tree. Shifta Advance and Deband Advance aren't really worth it because it only adds 25% of what Shifta and Deband already add. Deband Cut isn't bad if you have nothing else to put points into, since it's a straight 15% damage reduction at max. It's 5% for the first point if you don't want to invest too heavily into it. Super Treatment and Territory PP Save are also worth putting a point into. Super Treatment essentially gives you a free PP Convert after healing off a status with Anti.

And about talises: you should be using them in addition to rods. While rods are useful for aiming techs that have to travel and close range tech spamming, talises do more damage (outside of ice since there's no Frozen Crystal talis yet) and have the utility of casting techs from afar, most notably Zondeel. For Fire and Light, Gifoie and Ragrants are very good techs to use after Zondeeling from a talis. Get a Koushousen for fire and a Gadianna for light.

[Hysteria1987]

Thanks for all the advice, guys. Can't believe I'd skipped over Element Weak Hit- they really hid it well on the skill tree too, all tucked away up there =P

I run a Rabbit Wand at the moment, which does indeed boost Photon Flare. That said, every adjustment I make to the skill tree seems to take more and more points away from PF and its relatives, so it may not last forever.

I will indeed look into the Koushousen and Gadianna- the Gadianna actually dropped for me last night, it surprised me a bit because I remember it from the original PSO as Guardianna. It was a solid Talis there too, nice to see that fact hasn't changed.

[Hrith]

Just gonna post this here...

New potential (so far only on a wand and a pair of jet boots): 悪魔の遊戯 (Devil's Game), decreases charging time for dark techniques.

DOES NOT AFFECT NAMEGID.
Literally the only technique of the seven dark ones for which this would have had any use.
I have no words.

[LonelyGaruga]

Namegid charges differently from any other tech. Same reason you have to charge it a little before you can actually use it, and why it automatically releases when fully charged. Of course it wouldn't work for Namegid.

[ChocoboRRR]

My reward for my speechers has been always absolute and not others. :wacko:

http://i61.tinypic.com/2dtdc9g.jpg

Even Sega agree with me.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2lwuhrn.jpg

[Perfect Chaos]

That is more suited for the Finds/Accomplishment Thread, but all right... Congrats, I guess.

This thread has been pretty dead, though...

[LonelyGaruga]

The second weapon isn't even Force equippable. Why is this here?

[ChocoboRRR]

Have you ever though what criminal syndicate can do being moderator in power?

I wouldn't surprise they would use people forum account passwords to steal stuff.

[Dephinix]

Status rates aren't on a per hit basis.

So this would mean Multi Hit Rabarta has no effect as well, right? I still prefer it as well, but initially got it
when crafting came out thing that it would increase status chance.

[Z-0]

Congrats HnS on your utterly useless weapons!!11!!!one

[LonelyGaruga]

So this would mean Multi Hit Rabarta has no effect as well, right? I still prefer it as well, but initially got it
when crafting came out thing that it would increase status chance.

Nah, Multi recipes don't alter the original damage/status per hit, so they actually add a lot of damage/SE rates. In Rabarta's case, it does 25% of its power notation per hit, so Multi Rabarta is 25% stronger, and presumably inflicts 25% more SE total, but there's really no word on how the SE change per hit is calculated.

But you can definitely take away that Multi does good stuff to Rabarta's SE rates.

[Perfect Chaos]

Assuming the additional +4% status on Multi Ra-Barta applies to only 4 hits, that would mean the chances of not freezing is 0.61, so the take the fourth-root of that for the chance of each hit not freezing (0.884). Then raise that to the power of 5 for the additional hit for the chance of 5 hits not freezing (0.539). So that's a 46.1% chance of freezing. About 18.2% better than having 39% without the additional hit (which is impossible, but that's not the point).

[KazukiQZ]

Want opinion from other Force:

Is it worth to lose out PP Efficient Foie (-10pp, with -15.7meter penalty) for a Blazing Foie (40-60% damage increase)?

[shooshpan]

Hello there! I've came back to the game after a long break. Back then VH AQs were the latest content and I was playing FoTe/FoFi with only one skill tree per class, being able to use every element and feel good enough for every piece of game content. I mean I couldn't kill a Quartz Dragon in a second or run TAs in a minute, but definitely could have some fun with others while not being a burden. How viable are single tree rainbow forces nowadays (endgame-wise)? Have things changed since old VH days? Can i play the same way and if so how would you spec the Fo tree?

[LonelyGaruga]

Things have changed a bit.

-New Force main only skill, Element Conversion. Converts half of your weapon's element into a multiplier if matching element with the tech you're using. 1/4th if non-matching. So 25% for matching 50 element, 12.5% otherwise. 30/15% for 13*s, which can go to 60 element. Makes specialized trees better than they already were.
-Redesigned skill trees allow for fewer useless skills, particularly with the Techer tree. No more T-DEF Up 1 to get PP Convert!
-Tech rebalance. Probably would say Fire > Ice = Light > Wind = Dark > Lightning. Right now, Fire/Ice/Light are easily best, with Fire being even better than Ice/Light overall. Ice is strong with lots of enemies weak to it now, particularly in UQs, where enemies resist elements they aren't weak to. Ragrants is now one of the best boss killers, and with how many bosses are weak to light, that makes light a very good element, easily Techer's best. Ilgrants is good too, dealing heavy damage with a long range and a high panic rate. Right now, 13*s are almost universally the best weapons in the game, so farming the boss that drops them, Anga Fandarge, is typically commonly done nowadays, and it's weak to light and Panic.

The skill tree rebalance lets you specialize in every element without losing on anything too major. Probably go something like this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0lobsiN2SGAIkqndxI2dncFIb00000ioInfpDIbfGAqBIxbXGN 4fn000009bIo0000008doIb0000008), but there can definitely be a lot of adjustments based on preference, like cutting elements you don't want to use.


Want opinion from other Force:

Is it worth to lose out PP Efficient Foie (-10pp, with -15.7meter penalty) for a Blazing Foie (40-60% damage increase)?

Depends on how much PP you currently have, but I would say yes.

[KazukiQZ]

^Mine is 154PP.

Still, wish the -10pp Foie can be converted back into disc form.

[shooshpan]

Thanks, LonelyGaruga! I think I need to play a bit more with all the techs)

So far I've found a lot of playability in Ilbarta, Ilgrants and Sazan (maybe I'm already too much in love with it, especially efficient version).

Lightning doesn't look so useful apart from utility.

Not really impressed by Namegid/Ilmegid, though Ilmegid looks pretty interesting and I keep seeing plenty of people using it in EQs.

And it seems like I should try to play more fire) How much of a PP-hungry burst branch it is now?

Also, iirc 6 points in PP Convert was ok, and now i'm seeing 10s in various builds - more useful expensive techs i guess?

And if panic is so useful on Ilgrants, how about the swift version?

[LonelyGaruga]

Yes, Ilbarta, Ilgrants, and Sazan are all great techs. Elysion Sazan was pretty much the staple tech for a long while up until EP3 rebalanced things, though Ilmegid also dominated the mobbing scene for a long time to.

Elysion Sazonde offers very high DPS, but otherwise yeah, lightning techs aren't in a very good position outside of utility.

Namegid should be good still. Elysion Namegid actually has better DPS than standard Namegid, as it does 30% (51% with Elysion) damage uncharged, but takes about 1s to cast uncharged, and 6s to cast fully charged. Ilmegid, however, got nerfed to hell, 40% reduction from EP2 to EP3. It is really only useful for hitting lots of enemies in one cast for decent damage now.

Fire isn't much more PP expensive than it used to be. If anything, it's less so, because Foie and Safoie have -PP recipes, +10 PP crafts exist for units, and Saiki units give +25 PP as a set bonus, so even with 0s you could have +55 PP. So hitting 200+ PP isn't too unrealistic.

10 SP in PP Convert is partly because stuff like -charge time Ragrants exists (charge time goes as low as 0.3s, got a huge damage buff with EP3 but its PP cost was revised to 30 from 20), and partly because there's simply more SP to spare with the skill tree revisions, and not much else better to grab.

Swift Ilgrants craft doesn't hurt the Panic rate too much, and its DPS improves quite a bit with the reduced charge time, so it's worthwhile. Better than the power recipe at least.

[TaigaUC]

Want opinion from other Force:

Is it worth to lose out PP Efficient Foie (-10pp, with -15.7meter penalty) for a Blazing Foie (40-60% damage increase)?

I was advised to use efficient Foie by a wise JP caster friend.
I think it's good to customize your techs for different situations.
If I want more damage or range, I use RaFoie with+damage.
Efficient Foie is great for long battles at medium range, although it may lack accuracy.
For long battles, you can also use efficient SaFoie, but that's close-range only, so it can't always be used and it's obviously more risky.

[Hysteria1987]

Efficient Foie is great for long battles at medium range, although it may lack accuracy.

Great for manual aim, one might add here- point it between enemies and fry em both... bearing in mind the accuracy point you raise ^^


Fire isn't much more PP expensive than it used to be. If anything, it's less so, because Foie and Safoie have -PP recipes, +10 PP crafts exist for units, and Saiki units give +25 PP as a set bonus, so even with 0s you could have +55 PP. So hitting 200+ PP isn't too unrealistic.

Now this I've been meaning to talk about for a while now- I questioned it a bit in the quick questions topic but not really all that in-depth.

I currently get +20 PP from the Techer skill tree, and +25 PP from the Saiki set. When I finish my affixing, I will get +20 PP from that, meaning I can use a skill-tree reset and put the PP-up skillpoints on the TE tree to better use, and be no worse off.

So, up for everyone to discuss, here's a skill-tree I cooked up. It only differs from what I currently use slightly, and only on the TE tree- I removed +20 points from PP-up, and added most of that to T-ATK up, Wand Gear/Lovers/Reactor. I don't currently use any wands but my thought is if I'm slapping stuff to regenerate PP, I can at least do some damage while doing it.

FO/TEnewearl (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsiN2SGAeX8cKIk00000ioInfcDIbGAGAqAkKIkGAcAdn0 00009bIo0000008doIb0000008)

Please note that the TE tree here is strictly as a subclass for FO, so taking TE-main skills won't bring any benefit. Any thoughts for discussion on this at all? I'm pretty happy with what I've got here but there's always room for discussion.

--

Now the second thing I'd like to talk about is all of your opinions on crafting Saiki for +10PP apiece. I'm a FOnewearl, who is squishy enough as it is, even more so when I throw PP convert on. Crafting will make me squishier still- I will be at risk of even more 1hko's. One may argue that you're not doing it right if you get hit, and that mirage escape makes life good - and while one would be right, accidents and incidents will happen.

So what are your thoughts on crafting Saiki - yay or nay?

[LonelyGaruga]

Force tree looks good, only thing to really suggest is swapping 2 SP from Photon Flare in favor of Charge Escape and Rod Keep Bonus. Charge Escape lets you store techs, so you can do things like charge Ilfoie when you've got nothing better to do, dodge, and then run around wherever you want, then JA and release Ilfoie immediately. Normally, it would cost the 50 PP again, but Rod Keep Bonus removes the requirement to spend the PP a second time.

For the Techer tree, I would recommend against using a wand for getting PP back, as a rod or talis would do it even better, and a gunslash does it best (mainly one with Spirit Collector). Would ditch the SP from Wand Reactor and the 2 SP in Wand Lovers for Super Treatment and uh...well, truthfully, there is very little useful past that. Maybe 2/1 SP in wind/dark or dump it into T-ATK. Thing about wands is that they'll still do low damage, and you'd be better off using a gunslash to regen faster, then resume tech usage.

And as a note in case it's ever useful to know, Wand Lovers adds more damage than Wand Reactor. Wand Lovers benefits both strikes and Wand Gear, while Reactor only applies to the strikes. Level 3 Wand Reactor is about a 6% increase to wand damage, but level 4 Wand Lovers is 9% from level 1.

Regarding squishiness, you can go for 1 HP craft if you feel that's a problem. Take 10 PP away, get 100 HP in return. Craft even has strike resistance (4% I think). Should make things accident-proof.

[Hysteria1987]

Thanks for the notes, I always think it's a good idea to get other peoples' views on things.

I'd never thought there was much value in Charge Escape/Rod Keep Bonus but then I'd always thought of it from the perspective of dodging in the middle of a fight to dodge an attack- useful, sure, but nothing I'd spent SP on. Charging an Ilfoie at the start of the quest to hang on to for that prime moment, though- now I can see many uses for that, most notably that one moment you run out of PP but the thing in front of you isn't dead yet =P

Duly noted on the Wand points- I haven't actually used Wands, or had Wands in the skill tree, since Ep2 before we had most of these skills. You found the same trouble I had - for a single-element subclass-only tree, there really isn't a lot of options for TE. I'd considered Wind as I run Zandeon, but sooner or later they'll release a compound tech with at least one of my elements, so T-ATK up will probably be (most of) the go. And look into a Gunslash with Spirit Collector, along with that Fire Talis I still have to get.

And I always get caught up in all or nothing, I'd never thought about two for PP and one for HP, haha =P I've been thinking about just where these little accidents tend to happen, and why. Maybe then I could do a bit about it. I know I get too stuck in front-and-centre in ultimate (keeping at the edges and throwing talises would help here), and Quartz Dragons occasionally get too close for comfort (remembering to remove the lock-on before dodging would save a lot of hassle!).

Plenty to think on there anyway. Thanks for the advice.

[Perfect Chaos]

Definitely get Super Treatment! It's my favorite Techter skill by far. On some stages like Coast and Volcano, you can pretty much have permanent level 6 PP Convert for just 1 skill point. No reason not to get it with it being only 1 point now.
Also, Shifta Advance adds a very insignificant amount to damage. If you use Zanverse at all (which you should at least in certain 12-man MPA quests), then adding the extra points that you have to Wind Mastery will also increase Zanverse's damage in addition to Zandion's damage. So I suggest taking all 10 points from Shifta Advance, 3 points from Wand Reactor, and 2 points from Wand Lovers, and gives those 15 to Super Treatment, 2 & 1 for the two Dark Masteries, and 10 & 1 for the two Wind Masteries.

[Hysteria1987]

Thanks for the advice. Having never ran a Wind TE, I'm not entirely familiar with Zanverse (I've used the light one before, but never really looked into the others), but I've looked into it and it seems it makes 20% of the damage I do into Wind element. Not so sure about this skill tree but it could be handy for if I ever get other skill trees set up- and for Zandion now, but I'm taking the long view here and realising I won't be using Zandion forever.

In any case, I'm still a couple weeks off having my affixes done (making meseta was easy when I was on holidays and could make most of the TDs) so I have plenty of time to mull things over...

[LonelyGaruga]

Zanverse works for your damage as well as everyone else within the Zanverse field. All of the damage done by Zanverse counts as damage you've done though. It's also boosted by Wind Mastery skills, along with a few other miscellaneous odds and ends (Sharpshooter, Shifta Drink, some potentials like species hunters, etc). Just apply the % increase to Zanverse's 20%.

In most cases, taking Wind Mastery skills actually increases your damage further than stuff like T-ATK Up 1 or Shifta Advance, but only when you have Zanverse active so the actual damage increase is only higher in theory. Still, it adds damage, so it's an option regardless of build.

[Perfect Chaos]

I've looked into it and it seems it makes 20% of the damage I do into Wind element. Not so sure about this skill tree but it could be handy for if I ever get other skill trees set up- and for Zandion now, but I'm taking the long view here and realising I won't be using Zandion forever.It doesn't just convert 20% of your damage into wind, if that's what you're saying; it deals an additional 20% of all combined damage done by anyone within the area of effect. The 20% is affected by some multipliers but not others, like LonelyGaruga said. Max Wind Masteries makes it deal 28.8% of the total damage done by other things, for example. And even though you might not be using Zandion forever, by the time that another multi-element tech comes, they'll probably give you another reset pass by then and you might need to reset the tree again, due to new skills being added.

[Hysteria1987]

Aha, I understand a little better now. Next time I get on PSO2 I'll stick it on my subpallette and have a play around with it, to make sure I have it all down.

[Alma]

some question:

is it good idea to max craft elysion wand?

i have a total 600+ dex from saiki and stigma alone, and according to dex list required i read, it more than enough for a *11 wand type. but im still unsure about it...

[Perfect Chaos]

If you have enough DEX to get the 90% minimum, then there's no reason to not craft weapons that become stronger at max craft if you can afford it (unless you are thinking of selling it later). If you think that you will never want to sell it, then craft it.

[ChocoboRRR]

Gotta love to kill those Force casting illmegid in b14 TD1 XH. What they are thinking by adding time and force them out of zondeel range.

Anyway make it up rank careboost using PB on final wave killed out of 19/20 at purple spawnpoint instead of blue. While they are waiting at tower. Lol

[Hysteria1987]

That's always been one of my pet peeves :p as a FO, we can spawn kill with the best of them. I've always felt that waiting by the towers first and foremost makes the runs longer, and secondly puts the towers under unnecessary risk.

I can understand it well enough in TD2 where several of the spawn points are basically on top of the towers, but in TD1 they're far enough away to make it a problem. Still, that's the way it is in random games :p I do like team games not just because I like my team, but because they can strategise and stuff beforehand.

[Raid_Hirsh]

These days, I've been hearing that Thunder Forces are pretty strong (in terms of the utility and unique attack properties for that element).

Once I did a (casual) Time Attack set with Natsuru and Daniel, I was simply dumbfounded on how Daniel was utilizing Zonde, Razonde, and Ilzonde with his Jet Boots.

Does anyone know where I can watch more videos regarding to Thunder users? In addition, what's a good skill build for Thunder Forces as well?

Thanks in advance~

[Hysteria1987]

I posted this skilltree in the last page- it's geared for Fire on the FO side, and you can see what advice I got around it for tweaking with in the posts afterwards- for FO it can basically be condensed to consider Charge Escape and Rod Keep Bonus (TE got some more advice and could well use a bit more tweaking).

But with a simple switch over to Bolt Mastery from Fire, it should do you some good.

FO/TEnewearl (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsiN2SGAeX8cKIk00000ioInfcDIbGAGAqAkKIkGAcAdn0 00009bIo0000008doIb0000008)

I can't help out with videos unfortunately, or how FO will work with BO, which you sounded interested in (mine is only about lv15). I'm not gonna be great at pointing out weapons here either as Cirno's down and Google Translate won't be 100% accurate, but that skill tree was built around using a Talis. Given that, Swiki is recommending a ピオニリンク ('propionylthio link'), which is an 11* Talis.

Also good - ロゼフロッツ ('Rozefurottsu'), which are 11* Jet Boots, or ヘルマウォン ('Herumau~on'), an 11* Wand (go for a Club of Zumiuran if you aren't a high enough level). Each of those weapons have that Thunder Crystal potential to boost lightning, and the Talis of course gets that skill tree percentage boost too.

Good luck with this, there aren't an awful lot of lightning FO's out there so you'll be something a little different =P

[Sizustar]

So, the new Ice Tali from PSO2es, http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AD%E3%82%A2%E3%83%BC%E3% 83%AA%E3%82%B8%E3%82%A7

246 T-atk less then the Ice rod..

[Alma]

871 T atk at +10... D:

[LonelyGaruga]

Still the second strongest talis for ice techs (Ares Talis is 1st). 871 is not that bad, Bio is only like 50 more.

[Perfect Chaos]

So how does one go about getting this within PSO2es? I've never really used PSO2es to get anything other than Soul Receptor fodder, so I'm not sure how to get this there. ^_^;

And since I'll be crafting this, anyway, I wish it was just a 10* to make grinding a bit easier... <_<

[Sizustar]

So how does one go about getting this within PSO2es? I've never really used PSO2es to get anything other than Soul Receptor fodder, so I'm not sure how to get this there. ^_^;

And since I'll be crafting this, anyway, I wish it was just a 10* to make grinding a bit easier... <_<

Play the Eq in PSO2es, do the Lilipa Scratch till it's level 5 scratch, then hope you get one from it.

[ChocoboRRR]

Get the most stuff from Force

http://i58.tinypic.com/28vatz5.jpg

Now wondering it is worth going for misculine weapons cause of very little boost?

Except that 12* gunslash ofcourse that is wanted for every Force.

[Alma]

speaking about that 12 gunslash...

queen viera need 450 base dex to equip...
and my newearl has only 449 base dex at 75/75...

:wacko:

[ChocoboRRR]

wut?

That is some silly way Sega.

[KASKADE]

So I just got an extra skill tree for both classes, I'm a 71/52 Fo/Te with a Fire Tree and a Light/Dark tree. I plan to add Ice/PF for Force, but not sure what to add for the Tech tree. I know I want a wind tree, but not sure which of the other tech elements would pair better with it.

Open to any suggestions

[Perfect Chaos]

speaking about that 12 gunslash...

queen viera need 450 base dex to equip...
and my newearl has only 449 base dex at 75/75...

:wacko:Yeah, that's pretty stupid. What I ended up doing was put 1 skill point on DEX on my Techter tree, since I have a couple of extra points there that I have nothing to do with.

[Charmeleon]

What I do is play FO/TE on a cast. Enough dex for Queen Viera AND enough S-atk for Elysion!

*not recommended


So I just got an extra skill tree for both classes, I'm a 71/52 Fo/Te with a Fire Tree and a Light/Dark tree. I plan to add Ice/PF for Force, but not sure what to add for the Tech tree. I know I want a wind tree, but not sure which of the other tech elements would pair better with it.

Open to any suggestions

I would suggest light if you're not going to get a separate tree for every element, since darkers appear everywhere. There currently aren't any areas where both wind and dark are useful together as far as I know. Though light isn't very useful outside of Ragrants and Ilgrants, that's really all you need for darker bosses. Use other elements for mobbing.

[Hysteria1987]

Gonna second Light, I run a Fire/Light FO/TE and that covers most situations quite well. There are a few enemies (Vol Dragon and Quartz Dragon come to mind) that will be straight-up resistant to you, and a few areas where the bulk of enemies will not be weak to you (Tunnels, Amduscia), but if you're running multiple elements you may be less likely to run into these situations.

[cheapgunner]

I'd like to know which tails/jet boots to get for Fo/Te. I imagine the seimei kikami, Pioni Link ( thunder crystal ), the new one from pso2es and Koushousen. But are there any others I might have missed?

[Perfect Chaos]

Gardianna for light, and if you want a wind one, either a Green Duel Gaze or a Maisen (the former is better if you don't craft it due to not having enough DEX).

[Z-0]

For Jet Boots on FO, you want the TD boots for PP reduction, otherwise:

ハルトブリズ (Machine)
スターカルディア (Darker)
ジギリバルティ (Black Titans)
ネプトスライダー (Oceanids)
ロゼフロッツ (Lightning, if you want it for some reason)

I personally have fire and lightning TD boots because they one shot everything in those areas anyway, and nothing else because I don't really see any reason to get them since you never play those areas.

Well, I have the Darker boots but they're for FiBo. Gotta kick!

[cheapgunner]

Thanks for the advicw. I plan on doing COs like crazy and grabbing the tails/boots I need for my FO. I know we have a 10% grinding and affix possibly in the future so I have quite the road ahead of me (only 9.8 mil atm >.< ).

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I've decide to mess with FO again (which isn't much but still haha)

Wanted to make an Ice/Dark Build on FO/TE Was advise of this build) Ice/Dark Build (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsfHn2SGBexlkGAin00000ioInfcKIbdnGAqBIxcK4IgNd A000009bIo0000008doIb0000008)

I was considering just getting a Weddle Park and Elder Rod (Ice potential) seeing that I only have about 20 mil to work with but i was told the talis counterpart's for ice and dark are better.

How much difference is the damage between rod/talis between the two elements?

[Anduril]

I've decide to mess with FO again (which isn't much but still haha)

Wanted to make an Ice/Dark Build on FO/TE Was advise of this build) Ice/Dark Build (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsfHn2SGBexlkGAin00000ioInfcKIbdnGAqBIxcK4IgNd A000009bIo0000008doIb0000008)

I was considering just getting a Weddle Park and Elder Rod (Ice potential) seeing that I only have about 20 mil to work with but i was told the talis counterpart's for ice and dark are better.

How much difference is the damage between rod/talis between the two elements?
Talis damage comes down to whether or not you fully invested in the Talis Tech Bonus skill. Full points into the skill and a thrown Talis should regularly out-damage Rods, but Talises do have the disadvantages of being difficult to control properly at first and not gaining the damage boost if they aren't casting from thrown, thus limiting it at close range; with practice, these two things are no longer a problem.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

Talis damage comes down to whether or not you fully invested in the Talis Tech Bonus skill. Full points into the skill and a thrown Talis should regularly out-damage Rods, but Talises do have the disadvantages of being difficult to control properly at first and not gaining the damage boost if they aren't casting from thrown, thus limiting it at close range; with practice, these two things are no longer a problem.

And of course the Ice Talis only dropped from that limited quest in pso2es. Think base was 10 mil but grinding never seems to like me......

Unless I'm missing something....the dark talis is the 10* Seimei Kikami?

[Tyroki]

Would it be possible to dump Tech JA Advance and Tech Charge Advance 2 in favor of full Photon Flare, Photon Flare Advance and Photon Flare Afterburst as a jack of all elements sort of caster?

I'm a Fo/Te and I'm contemplating going a fair bit of rainbow.

[milranduil]

Would it be possible to dump Tech JA Advance and Tech Charge Advance 2 in favor of full Photon Flare, Photon Flare Advance and Photon Flare Afterburst as a jack of all elements sort of caster?

I'm a Fo/Te and I'm contemplating going a fair bit of rainbow.

No because the 3 aforementioned skills work for all techs all the time instead of during PF only (except for uncharged elysion spam, ofc). Your tree should have room for ~5/10 PF and afterburst anyway even with those skills maxed.

[SkylyVi]

Hello all! Just rolled a Force and its very overwhelming, I have a couple questions if you guys can help me.

1. Techs, There are way too many techs for me to keep track of. Could you guys dummy it down to like, One for Normal Mobs / One for Bosses per element?

2. Tech Customizing, Im reading up on this now http://pso2.cirnopedia.info/craft_3.php#nav
Exactly how many tech effects can I put on one skill? Like, could i put Power and -PP cost onto Foie?
Also is it a one time thing? Or can you change it as many times as you like?

3. Tech Trees, I think(?) I've read that focusing on one element is better than spreading out to everything. Im probably only going to have 1 skill tree, So I'm guessing Fire or Ice would be best?

4. I only have basic gear now, Should I be using Rods or Talis?

5. Palletes, Whats your guys pallete set up like? Is there a way to Set up my weapon pallete skills to be like a Hunter (where if I normal attack the chained skill will change with every swing) So I can get more JA Charged skills off?

Thats all I can think of for now

Thanks all!

[Alma]

these reply by lonely garuga in another thread may answer some of your question:


When attacking an enemy with a tech that matches its elemental weakness, damage is usually increased by 20-30% (20% is typical for enemies with two weaknesses, 30% for one weakness). This is on top of the 20% damage increase from Element Weak Hit (so 44-56% more damage). As a result, it's generally better to match weakness where possible, but some exceptions exist with very powerful techs, like Ilbarta. However, since you're not using Ice Mastery skills, that means losing an additional 44% damage from Ilbarta.

Anyway, best boss killing techs for each element would probably be

Fire: Nafoie (power craft)
Ice: Ilbarta (power craft)
Lightning: Sazonde (power craft)
Wind: Nazan (power craft for Elysion, charge craft without)
Light: Ragrants (charge craft)
Dark: Gimegid/Namegid (charge craft for Gimegid, power for Namegid)

Nafoie has good damage and charge time, but Ragrants is better for insect darkers. Safoie is an option for when PP Convert isn't available. PP craft gives Safoie a cost as low as 10 PP and does about 72% of the damage a max power craft Nafoie does. Alternatively, you can craft Safoie for power to reduce the difference to about 7%, for 20 PP instead of Nafoie's 35 PP. Probably the better route, Safoie has better damage/PP spent regardless.

Nazan is very short ranged, but has high power and costs merely 16 PP. Charge time craft reduces the cost further, to 13 PP. On targets weak to both fire and wind (Rockbear mainly), Nazan is better damage than Nafoie and charges almost as quickly (0.55 max charge time craft vs Nafoie's 0.5), and costs almost 1/3rd the PP, making it highly spammable. Some enemies have 110% weaknesses to wind (Fang pair, Snow pair, and Big Vardha are all I know of, their rare variants do not have this weakness, besides rare Fang Banther being 130% wind), but this doesn't trigger EWH. You can also use Razan (Multi recipe is stronger than Sazan) or Sazan (PP craft for 8 PP cost) for their auto-target range and high damage.

Ragrants is pretty much one of the best DPS options Force has right now, along with Ilbarta. Tremendous damage and a ridiculously low charge time, with the 30 PP cost mitigated by PP Convert and other PP restoration methods. Between fire, wind, and light, Ragrants is the single best DPS option available, being the strongest (next to Ilfoie) and fastest tech available. Ragrants does have poor range and no tracking to speak of once fired off, so Ilgrants is another option for long-range combat. Ilgrants uses 120% of its power notation listed when charged instead of the typical 100%, making it 20% stronger than the power notation indicates. It has good range and high damage, with a high panic rate on top of that, making it very good for inflicting panic on bosses vulnerable to it (namely Apos Dorios and Dark Vibrace, don't go out of your way for Vibrace Yuga though, panic has an incredibly low proc rate on it). Swift recipe comes with a -0.25s charge time bonus, making Ilgrants take slightly less than a second to charge fully.

Think that should cover what to use for bosses.

[LonelyGaruga]

1. Techs, There are way too many techs for me to keep track of. Could you guys dummy it down to like, One for Normal Mobs / One for Bosses per element?

2. Tech Customizing, Im reading up on this now http://pso2.cirnopedia.info/craft_3.php#nav
Exactly how many tech effects can I put on one skill? Like, could i put Power and -PP cost onto Foie?
Also is it a one time thing? Or can you change it as many times as you like?

3. Tech Trees, I think(?) I've read that focusing on one element is better than spreading out to everything. Im probably only going to have 1 skill tree, So I'm guessing Fire or Ice would be best?

4. I only have basic gear now, Should I be using Rods or Talis?

5. Palletes, Whats your guys pallete set up like? Is there a way to Set up my weapon pallete skills to be like a Hunter (where if I normal attack the chained skill will change with every swing) So I can get more JA Charged skills off?

1) No because you should be using pretty much every tech. Judging from 5, I think your problem is that you haven't set the options so that you have to hold the weapon action in order to switch from attack + tech 1 to tech 2 + tech 3. When you do that, all you have to do is let go of the weapon action and it'll automatically switch back to attack + tech 1. Makes it a lot easier to use all of your techs. Though, I guess a list of what to use for mobs and bosses would be good.

Fire:

Mobs: Foie, Gifoie, Rafoie, Safoie, Ilfoie
Bosses: Safoie, Nafoie

Ice:

Mobs: Barta, Gibarta, Rabarta, Sabarta, Ilbarta
Bosses: Rabarta, Sabarta, Nabarta, Ilbarta

Lightning:

Mobs: Zonde, Gizonde, Razonde, Zondeel, Ilzonde
Bosses: Sazonde, Nazonde

Wind:

Mobs: Gizan, Razan, Sazan, Ilzan
Bosses: Zan, Razan, Sazan, Nazan

Light:

Mobs: Grants, Gigrants, Nagrants, Ilgrants
Bosses: Ragrants, Nagrants, Ilgrants

Dark:

Mobs: All of them
Bosses: Gimegid, Ramegid, Samegid, Namegid

Generalizing, of course.

2) One effect. You can override the effect of a crafted tech any time by using another crafted tech (so you can have +power on Foie, but use a -PP Foie to override the power craft, or override a power craft with another power craft).

3) Fire or ice would be best, yeah. Probably best to go fire.

4) Both.

5) Covered in 1. You can't make it like Hunter (though as mentioned above this is how jet boots work), but you can change it so that you can perform any of the actions set on your weapon just by pushing the right buttons. This actually makes it much more versatile than what Hunter can do.

[Charmeleon]

If you use jet boots to cast techs, you'll have a 1-2-3 palette like most melee weapons do. Although I don't know why you'd want that over having a selector. Boots can be useful for forces, but if you use them you should be casting from the subpalette instead of the weapon palette (save for one tech, the one mapped to the weapon).

[ChocoboRRR]

Here I give some quick summary.

Why force kickass.
[spoiler-box]http://i58.tinypic.com/143mdkz.jpg[/spoiler-box]
No problem with distant kill or whatever spawn location.

Farming EQ solo while carry three more npc for extra mobs?
[spoiler-box]http://i62.tinypic.com/kcl552.jpg[/spoiler-box]
Easy mode.

[yucachann]

Tried FOBR once in XHTD. It was fun. Though the main downside is the fact that PP has slower restoration rate (since you're not subbing TE), though the multipliers for Weak Stance makes everything worth it. Easy 80k on Ilfoie, easy 50k on Rafoie

Maybe I wasn't playing it correctly. I don't know about you guys but even 210PP doesn't feel enough for me on FOBR :S

Should I invest 5SP on Attack Advance? Note that I am using Rikauteri on bosses too. Which also makes a question : What techs should you use while on Banish Arrow (and on Weak Stance)?

Usually I either Nafoie/Ilfoie/Safoie, 5 Uncharged + 2 Charged Ilbarta or Nabarta, Sazonde+Nazonde, Razan (extra tick craft) or Nazan, Ragrants or Ilgrants, and Gimegid spam or Namegid.

Chase Arrow damage isn't really as great as compared to playing RABR/BRRA, but I guess it doesn't hurt for very little PP usage since you should have high PP as an FO anyway.

[LonelyGaruga]

BA techs look good to me. I can't think of anything that would be worth using with it that you didn't name. Gotta ask though, do you really have a full set of Rikauteri for each element? That's pretty nifty if so.

I take it the Braver tree looks something like this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09bDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0lo00000007oIn00000000ebIo4NjJf2mxrklb00008doIb000 0008)? Seems like the next best stuff to get would indeed be improving bow damage, since everything else is less valuable. There'd be room to max Attack Advance and go 3/5 into RSU1/2. I don't know if Charge Shoot is any good as Fo/Br, I recall having a conversation with a Ra/Br player about how Charge Shoot's velocity increase actually messes up a BA combo for it due to the normal triggering BA's detonation faster. Dunno if that could be a problem for Fo/Br BA combos, but even if it wasn't, RSU applies to PAs like Chase Arrow, so why not? Not like it's a bad deal either, 220 R-ATK for 8 SP (albeit during Rapid Shoot).

I dunno how amazing bow PP regen is for Fo/Br, but if the PP regen isn't sufficient, or Rapid Shoot is on cooldown, maybe pulling out a Queen Vera would help.

[Ce'Nedra]

Rather new to FO/TEing, didn't properly gear yet etc but I want to run 2 builds. One would be a fire FO for TD and such and other for fun a Lightning/Wind build (wind for Zandeon) with Motav and Lightning Talis (Motav more for cosmetic reasons then its Latent). I run into the issue I don't know what to get on my TE sub skill wise. I pretty much can spend 50 SP but get stuck after that. Also for sake of making things easier, I still calculate my builds with only 85 SP since I cba to grind for class cubes just yet, that and my FO/TE is only 55/55 right now.

What I currently have is both Wind Masteries, PP restorate, Element Weak Hit, Territory Burst, Teritory PP save and Super Treatment. Is there any other thing on there I overlook for this specific build to squeeze more damage out? Shifta skills maybe? I could also go for more T-atk but since I make a pure T-atk mag I will already have 870 T-atk at 75/75 so I don't think I will need more.

I might run into this same issue on as Fire FOTE as well actually now I just think about it ^^; Thanks for any tips/advice.

Edit: how viable is wandsmacking as FOTE? I run a TEHU with melee wand smacking (elysion) and I quite enjoy it but dunno how FOTE would handle it.

Edit2: How good could Rikauteri be for pure casting and now for bowing as FOTE considering it has Ancient Oath (and loving the look)

[yucachann]

BA techs look good to me. I can't think of anything that would be worth using with it that you didn't name. Gotta ask though, do you really have a full set of Rikauteri for each element? That's pretty nifty if so.

I dunno how amazing bow PP regen is for Fo/Br, but if the PP regen isn't sufficient, or Rapid Shoot is on cooldown, maybe pulling out a Queen Vera would help.

Only got a 50 element light Rikauteri at the moment (because originally I use the bow for TEBR), but since the bow is getting cheaper now (currently around 7M at Ship8 that might be worth considering as well, too bad I don't have a Queen Vera :()

RSA at 5SP has a PP regen of 140% so it's pretty close to Techer's PP restorate. Maybe when 12* crafting is out the Magatsu bow seems to be worthy to take since the latent makes the cooldown to 112.5 seconds (though.... it would be really expensive considering you're going to +40 a bow just so that you save few seconds on the cooldown)


Ce'Nedra : For me I just proc on two element masteries. Something like this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09bqbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsiN2SGBIkdnibfcKIx00000ioInidjGAdBIkcK4IGN2N0 00008ebIo4Ni2Jf2mxrklb00008doIb0000008)

[LonelyGaruga]

Rather new to FO/TEing, didn't properly gear yet etc but I want to run 2 builds. One would be a fire FO for TD and such and other for fun a Lightning/Wind build (wind for Zandeon) with Motav and Lightning Talis (Motav more for cosmetic reasons then its Latent). I run into the issue I don't know what to get on my TE sub skill wise. I pretty much can spend 50 SP but get stuck after that. Also for sake of making things easier, I still calculate my builds with only 85 SP since I cba to grind for class cubes just yet, that and my FO/TE is only 55/55 right now.

What I currently have is both Wind Masteries, PP restorate, Element Weak Hit, Territory Burst, Teritory PP save and Super Treatment. Is there any other thing on there I overlook for this specific build to squeeze more damage out? Shifta skills maybe? I could also go for more T-atk but since I make a pure T-atk mag I will already have 870 T-atk at 75/75 so I don't think I will need more.

I might run into this same issue on as Fire FOTE as well actually now I just think about it ^^; Thanks for any tips/advice.

Edit: how viable is wandsmacking as FOTE? I run a TEHU with melee wand smacking (elysion) and I quite enjoy it but dunno how FOTE would handle it.

Edit2: How good could Rikauteri be for pure casting and now for bowing as FOTE considering it has Ancient Oath (and loving the look)

Force builds usually have around 1000+ T-ATK. 870 at 75/75 sounds low. Here's what I use for reference.

Fire (+Wind) (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsiN2SGBekIb6cKIx00000ioInfcKIbwNGAqBIxIkfGA2N 000009bIo0000008doIb0000008)

Lightning build is identical, but with SP in lightning skills instead of fire (obviously). Wind skills are for Zanverse and Zandeon as well as just using wind techs.

I wouldn't call Fo/Te viable for wand smacking. Force's only way of increasing wand damage is through bolstering T-ATK. Not one skill benefits striking damage. You're better off just using techs for the most part. You can use wands, they just won't be anywhere near the effectiveness of Te/Hu.

Fo/Te Rikauteri could be viable, but I dunno if the PP regen on a bow without any of the bow skills could be called good. Bows don't have very good PP regen without bow skills when you compare them with assault rifles or TMGs, but the comparison with rods and talises could be more favorable. Though you could use Queen Vera. Queen Vera's T-ATK is only a little higher, and its potential doesn't buff damage, but between the superior PP regen and the faster step, it seems like it'd be more versatile.

At any rate, Rikauteri is going to have worse damage than a rod/talis, so the main reason to use it is either faster PP regen or step access. Rikauteri has better damage than most wands and JBs (only Ares weapons have higher T-ATK, though species latents should beat Rikauteri anyway), so it has that going for it.


RSA at 5SP has a PP regen of 140% so it's pretty close to Techer's PP restorate. Maybe when 12* crafting is out the Magatsu bow seems to be worthy to take since the latent makes the cooldown to 112.5 seconds (though.... it would be really expensive considering you're going to +40 a bow just so that you save few seconds on the cooldown)

The PP regen is a multiplier to bow normals rather then natural PP regen. Though, charged bow normals regen 12.6 PP per hit with it, so that's 37.8 PP if all three hits land. Pretty good regen. Rapid Shoot Advance also reduces the cooldown of Rapid Shoot, so it'll have 105s cooldown. The 12* Magatsu bow's potential would reduce this to 78.75s. Subtract the active time and the actual cooldown is 18.75s. Without it, the cooldown would be 45s.

Though, dunno how the cooldown reduction works. If it requires you to use the bow throughout Rapid Shoot then it's meh.

[Perfect Chaos]

Edit2: How good could Rikauteri be for pure casting and now for bowing as FOTE considering it has Ancient Oath (and loving the look)Banish Arrow is the main reason you'd want to use a Bow over a Rod/Talis, and as FOTE, you won't have, so you lose the biggest incentive. Also, even as FOBR, Talis is still better DPS than Bow unless you're under Rapid Shoot (they are practically the same in this situation, but in this case, there's no need to waste time throwing a Talis), so there is even less reason to use it as a FOTE due to no Rapid Shoot.


Only got a 50 element light Rikauteri at the moment (because originally I use the bow for TEBR), but since the bow is getting cheaper now (currently around 7M at Ship8 that might be worth considering as well, too bad I don't have a Queen Vera :()If you only have a Light Rikauteri, then you're better off using a rainbow palette of Vibras Bow for TD when using non-Light techniques, as that will net you higher damage for the other elements.


Though, dunno how the cooldown reduction works. If it requires you to use the bow throughout Rapid Shoot then it's meh.Since the cool-down time is determined at activation and the countdown starts immediately, you probably only have to have equipped when activating Rapid Shoot to get the 78.75 seconds of cool-down. I don't see the countdown timer dynamically changing as you switch in and out of that bow, as that would just require complicated programing that Sega wouldn't bother to do.

Also, why do you include Katana Finish in that tree for FOBR builds? Is it really worth it to switch to Katana, and build up hits, just to get one strong (would it even be that strong with zero S-ATK investment?) attack every 3 minutes for a FOBR build?


PS: This is bothering me... ヴィエラ is the way the Japanese katakana-ize the name Vieira (a Galician and Portuguese word and an actual surname for people), so it bothers me when someone calls the 12* gunslash by anything but Queen Vieira. LOL

[LonelyGaruga]

Banish Arrow will always out-damage talises. It's doubled damage.

I expect Rapid Shoot cooldown will work like that, but I would completely believe that Sega would make it so that the cooldown only starts counting at the end of Rapid Shoot so you'd have to switch to the bow before it ends. Not that it matters a whole lot, but still.

Katana Combat Finish doesn't need to have hits built up to do decent damage. You can Zondeel enemies to rapidly build up hits anyway. Aseracta is also good for tech usage, so you can Zondeel enemies, hit them, eliminate them with techs, Asagiri to the next spawn, then Combat Finish them. It's a TA staple at the very least. Besides that...is there anything better to take? Also the cooldown is actually 2:40, minus the time spent during Katana Combat.

Queen Viera and Queen Vera are used by different translation sources. Far as I'm concerned the names are interchangeable. It's pronounced the same way anyway.

[Perfect Chaos]

Banish Arrow will always out-damage talises. It's doubled damage. When I said that Talis out-damages Bows without Rapid Shoot for FOBR, I forgot to mention that it was for instances when dealing with a bunch of small-fry that gets killed in 1 or 2 hits, making Banish Arrow not ideal to use. But for bosses and super bulky stuff, then yeah, Bow will still be better.


I expect Rapid Shoot cooldown will work like that, but I would completely believe that Sega would make it so that the cooldown only starts counting at the end of Rapid Shoot so you'd have to switch to the bow before it ends. Not that it matters a whole lot, but still. When you activate things, the cool-down countdown starts immediately. You just get the active time countdown overlayed over it immediately, so you don't get to see the cool-down timer. But in situations where the server lags when you activate stuff, you can actually see the cool-down timer for a few seconds before the server tells the game that it's okay to make the skill active. Cool-down is client side while the active duration is server-side, hence why going through loading tunnels depletes your active time but not your cool-down time.


Katana Combat Finish doesn't need to have hits built up to do decent damage. You can Zondeel enemies to rapidly build up hits anyway. Aseracta is also good for tech usage, so you can Zondeel enemies, hit them, eliminate them with techs, Asagiri to the next spawn, then Combat Finish them. It's a TA staple at the very least. Besides that...is there anything better to take? Also the cooldown is actually 2:40, minus the time spent during Katana Combat.I'm aware the cool-down is 2:40, but with the time it takes to activate Katana Combat, activate Katana Finish, and things in between like racking up hits and moving to another mob, ect., it's closer to 3 minutes between each finisher, so I rounded it.
I only do TD1 and a few bosses with FOBR, though, so I'm not sure how much Katana Finish would help me. I haven't personally tried it myself (never even touched a Katana with my main character), but maybe I should... I just don't want to have to buy a new tree just in order to test it, since there's a possibility I won't like it. Either that, or waste 2 reset passes if I don't like it. *shrugs*
And right now, I have maxed Weak Stance Critical, just to get the most out of Technique damage as possible, so I guess it's not a big loss if I take 7 points of that and 1 point of J Reversal Cover for Katana Finish. LOL

BTW, do the hits you accumulate for Katana Finish have to be done with a Katana? Like, there're three situations: hits with Katana attacks/PAs, hits with Techs while a Katana is equipped, and hits when a non-Katana is equipped. Do you know which one(s) of those 3 builds hits for Katana Finish? (I'm too lazy to check swiki for that right now. LOL)


Queen Viera and Queen Vera are used by different translation sources. Far as I'm concerned the names are interchangeable. It's pronounced the same way anyway.Viera is simply the direct transliteration of the syllables used (i.e. ヴィ=Vi, エ=e, ラ=ra), so in a way, it's not wrong... But considering that Vieira is an establish name and Viera is not, and how the weapon has "Queen" in front of it, there's a sense that it's meant to be based on someone's name, Vieira makes more sense. Translation sources that uses Viera probably just aren't aware that Vieira is a actual name, so they transliterated it direct, syllable-wise.
And Vera is just completely wrong, as it's not even the same pronunciation, anymore.

EDIT: I guess Viera is a race in Final Fantasy, spelled the same way in Japanese, but that's probably because the localization team for Square Enix wanted to just romanize it directly for each syllable (either that, or they just wanted to make it different from an actual existing name). I guess I'm fine with Viera, as it's not technically wrong, but Vera definitely is incorrect.

EDIT2: I guess I can see why people could think that Vera and Viera could be pronounced the same, if you pronounce "ve" and "vie" like "vee". But "vie" in this case is indeed two syllables.

[LonelyGaruga]

There's no reason to use Banish Arrow for small fry. It's like using Holding Current on mobs. Switch weapons. Though, bows would actually be better as long as you already do enough damage to annihilate the enemies at the same pace. Doesn't make a difference if you do 20K or 17K to an enemy with 15K HP.

Combat Finish only counts actual physical attacks from a katana. Techs don't count, and Katana Combat ends if you switch weapon.

Viera falls into a similar problem with Klotho/Chroto/whatever you want to call him. As I recall, it was a weapon in a previous PS game, right? Maybe it was called Queen Vera there, the same way that Tekuta is called Techer. I don't know or care to be honest, and I don't think anyone calling it Vera does. Everyone knows what's being referred to.

[Perfect Chaos]

I might try incorporating Katana Finish in TD runs in the future...
Is there a point in using Aseracta if you already have Rikauteri for technique usage? If one were to use a Katana exclusively to take advantage of Katana Finish, wouldn't it be better to use a crafted Katana (to be Force-equipable) with S-ATK affixes? Also, what would be the best potential on a katana to have for TD? Ancient Oath? Or is there another potential with a better multiplier for this purpose?

[LonelyGaruga]

There aren't really any katana that are good for tech damage. Aseracta gets used because it has Splendid Recovery, which is great for both tech usage and Asagiri dashing. Of course there's also Dragon Hunter, but that's just dragons. Aseracta's T-ATK is tied with the Susano palette swap, but that one has Fury Stance latent so it's not useful.

As far as exclusively using it for Katana Combat Finish, there isn't much point in doing so since katana can actually use techs just fine. Think Bio would be best, but crafted species hunters might be better depending on damage variance. So either Bio or crafted light Yasha for TD.

[Perfect Chaos]

Aseracta has Fragile Assault (Weak Stance bonus potential), not Splendid Recovery. Either way, with how low its T-ATK is and only a 11% multiplier on its potential, I don't see a use for casting techs with it over other weapons available.
Bio would do less damage due to a smaller multiplier on its potential, so I guess I'll craft a Sange (it'll be the same as Yasha after crafting, but it costs less to buy and I like how it looks more). Too bad there's no potential that boosts Katana Finish damage... :(
(And I have Stigma on Saiki units, so I have enough DEX to get the max 90% damage variance on crafted weapons.)

EDIT: Unless I'm misunderstanding something, but two things you said seem to contradict each other.
"There aren't really any katana that are good for tech damage." and "katana can actually use techs just fine".

[LonelyGaruga]

Oh right, the rod and wand have Splendid Recovery, but the katana does not. Derp. Anyway, the point of casting techs with it is for having immediate access to Asagiri for dashing and Katana Combat. If you have good affixes it'll wipe out (some) enemies just as fast as if you were using a rod or a talis anyway. Example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOBiJ-7iJI4).

Bio doesn't have damage variance to the same degree as crafted weapons, which makes it more consistently damaging. Forgot Sange had Ancient Oath though, that would be better than Yasha. Cheaper to grind and affix, easier to acquire.

[Perfect Chaos]

Well, Sange would be the same to grind, since it's still an 11*, but yeah...easier/cheaper to get. LOL
And from my understanding, with at least 541 DEX, the damage variance for crafted Katana (at level 8 that uses Silva-grade materials) will have the same variance as a non-crafted rare Katanas, due to the recent buff in crafting. Hence why Sange crafting became so popular and made its price go way up from what it once was.

And I guess I can see Aseracta's use in TAs, where the enemies aren't very bulky and speed is the main priority. But since I'm using FOBR for XH TD, it's not a great idea with how bulky everything is. LOL

[LonelyGaruga]

That's for level 65 enemies. Level 80 enemies require 595 DEX for katanas to hit that, and some enemies need more than that. 595 is just minimum. Doesn't seem worth it at all.

[Perfect Chaos]

Well, I have 40 DEX in affixes per unit, for a total of 660 DEX when I'm FOBR, so that's fine.

[Ce'Nedra]

Force builds usually have around 1000+ T-ATK. 870 at 75/75 sounds low. Here's what I use for reference.

Fire (+Wind) (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsiN2SGBekIb6cKIx00000ioInfcKIbwNGAqBIxIkfGA2N 000009bIo0000008doIb0000008)

Lightning build is identical, but with SP in lightning skills instead of fire (obviously). Wind skills are for Zanverse and Zandeon as well as just using wind techs.

I wouldn't call Fo/Te viable for wand smacking. Force's only way of increasing wand damage is through bolstering T-ATK. Not one skill benefits striking damage. You're better off just using techs for the most part. You can use wands, they just won't be anywhere near the effectiveness of Te/Hu.

Fo/Te Rikauteri could be viable, but I dunno if the PP regen on a bow without any of the bow skills could be called good. Bows don't have very good PP regen without bow skills when you compare them with assault rifles or TMGs, but the comparison with rods and talises could be more favorable. Though you could use Queen Vera. Queen Vera's T-ATK is only a little higher, and its potential doesn't buff damage, but between the superior PP regen and the faster step, it seems like it'd be more versatile.

At any rate, Rikauteri is going to have worse damage than a rod/talis, so the main reason to use it is either faster PP regen or step access. Rikauteri has better damage than most wands and JBs (only Ares weapons have higher T-ATK, though species latents should beat Rikauteri anyway), so it has that going for it.

Well I would like to point out I'm no real minmaxer and mostly just go with that I find working well, just came here for some advice what I could go use. Therefore I wonder why I need over 1k T-atk when there is nothing that requires it to equip, I think 850 is the max or so that I ever seen. Is it because there are no more multipliers when focusing on 1 element?

Also I see that you didn't put much points in Photon Flare and instead a few in the followup skills. I can imagine the After Burst but wouldn't it be better to put the rest in regular PF?

How did Zanverse work again? I been told a few times but I tend to forget what it really does.
Hm I thought Wand Explosion could make them be on par to TEHU since I heard Wand Explosion damage is T-atk related so could do more damage maybe then a TEHU.

Bow PP regen is terrible yeah...I do have a few Queen Vierra's around but I don't think I will be able to bother +40ing one just for the sake of more PP recovery. My luck with grinding is pretty terrible and I get annoyed really fast when I grind too ^^; Maybe I will give one a spin and just latent it once instead of 3 times if I have money over after finishing my units and other weapons. I pretty much like how Rika looks and I just love bows so I was wondering how it would be as casting weapon instead of subbing in BR. I might still sometime level BR on this char and give it a spin down the line.

[LonelyGaruga]

Yes, there are no further multipliers for one element so getting around 1100 T-ATK is normal. Since Shifta (Drink) uses base T-ATK, increasing your base T-ATK makes it better, so having 1100 T-ATK is actually a lot more than 850 T-ATK.

Shifta: 19.7%
Shifta Drink: 20%

1105 T-ATK (from the build I gave): 217 + 221 (1543)
870 T-ATK: 171 + 174 (1215)

Difference of 328 T-ATK, which is roughly 13-16% damage.

Photon Flare is a bad deal. It's 20 T-ATK per 1 SP for 45 seconds, which amounts to 9 T-ATK per 1 SP. Photon Flare After Burst is 100 T-ATK for 30 seconds, which amounts to 30 T-ATK for 1 SP, equal to Rare Mastery Force. Since Motav adds the same amount of ATK regardless of Photon Flare's level, there's no reason to max it out or anything. Main reason to grab it is After Burst. The 1 SP in Photon Flare Advance has the same effect as putting it in Photon Flare, so I just put it there in case more PF skills get released.

Zanverse performs an attack equal to 20% of any attack performed by a person standing in the field. Wind Mastery applies its damage bonus to that 20%, increasing it to a max of 28.8% damage. It's affected by several other modifiers such as Shifta Strike, an enemy having wind weakness (or resistance), and some weapon latents, among other things. It adds a ridiculous amount of damage if you get a decent amount of people grouped in, but even by yourself it's worth using, since it can be crafted to reduce its charge time to as low as 0.5s and doesn't cost much PP due to TB PP Save.

Wand Gear uses T-ATK, but is a striking attack. Force has no striking modifiers at all and lacks Shifta Strike. Hunter boosts WG by 60% and wand strikes by 76% (with Shifta Strike, this is 76% and 93% respectively). Force just can't compete.

[final_attack]

How did Zanverse work again? I been told a few times but I tend to forget what it really does.

Everyone inside Zanverse will have their damage recorded, and you'll deal around 20% (+ other that buff Zanverse) of that damage.

[InvertedWyvern]

Anyone mind posting a picture of their weapon pallettes + subpalletes?

Kinda confused how to set up my Fo/Te

[Hysteria1987]

I want more subpallette slots =((((((((

Setup 1:
Koushonen: Attack / Rafoie; Shifta / Deband
Subpallette 1: Resta, Anti, Photon Flare, PP Conversion, Photon Blast, Gifoie, Ilfoie, Zandion, Moon Atomisers, Zondeel

Setup 2:
Guardianna: Attack / Ragrants; Shifta / Deband
Subpallete 1: Resta, Anti, Photon Flare, PP Conversion, Photon Blast, Gigrants, Ilgrants, Zandion, Moon Atomisers, Zondeel

[Perfect Chaos]

Sometimes, I find that 18 subpalettes isn't enough for what I want to do...
More weapon slots would be nice, too.

[KASKADE]

My sub-pallette looks a little odd but I have it set-up in such a way that I can access whatever is in slot 6 or 8 with 2 extra buttons on my mouse (usually something like ilgrants/namegid and ilzonde). I keep all damage techs on mouse actions aside from these two though. I find it awkward to charge/spam techs while moving on the keyboard so I reserve it for occasional techs like zandeon and zondeel.

[ChocoboRRR]

Well I would like to point out I'm no real minmaxer and mostly just go with that I find working well, just came here for some advice what I could go use. Therefore I wonder why I need over 1k T-atk when there is nothing that requires it to equip, I think 850 is the max or so that I ever seen. Is it because there are no more multipliers when focusing on 1 element?

Also I see that you didn't put much points in Photon Flare and instead a few in the followup skills. I can imagine the After Burst but wouldn't it be better to put the rest in regular PF?

How did Zanverse work again? I been told a few times but I tend to forget what it really does.
Hm I thought Wand Explosion could make them be on par to TEHU since I heard Wand Explosion damage is T-atk related so could do more damage maybe then a TEHU.

Bow PP regen is terrible yeah...I do have a few Queen Vierra's around but I don't think I will be able to bother +40ing one just for the sake of more PP recovery. My luck with grinding is pretty terrible and I get annoyed really fast when I grind too ^^; Maybe I will give one a spin and just latent it once instead of 3 times if I have money over after finishing my units and other weapons. I pretty much like how Rika looks and I just love bows so I was wondering how it would be as casting weapon instead of subbing in BR. I might still sometime level BR on this char and give it a spin down the line.

My base t-atk with units is only 1585 point. Tryhard.

[Perfect Chaos]

That would require a capped FOTE Newearl will ALL T-ATK increasing skills (which shouldn't be happening...), a pure T-ATK mag (a given), and about 120 T-ATK per unit. Unless you're counting Shifta?

[ChocoboRRR]

That would require a capped FOTE Newearl will ALL T-ATK increasing skills (which shouldn't be happening...), a pure T-ATK mag (a given), and about 120 T-ATK per unit. Unless you're counting Shifta?

No shifta and No Force T-Atk 1 and 2 up. The other skill are maxed and each of my unit give 120 T-Atk. Ofcourse a pure T-Atk mag. Aren't hard to play a simple role playing game that has been simplified for super casual.

[LonelyGaruga]

Pics or get out. Math adds up, but I don't believe you actually have that unit setup.

[Alma]

My base t-atk with units is only 1585 point. Tryhard.


1585 - 90 - (120x3) = 1135 base atk

female newman race? (cmiiw)



@lonely garuga:
getting 120-125 atk affix on unit is doable now with cheap 4slot affix (diabo/tech IV/modulator/vinculum or techbus)

[Ce'Nedra]

Yes, there are no further multipliers for one element so getting around 1100 T-ATK is normal. Since Shifta (Drink) uses base T-ATK, increasing your base T-ATK makes it better, so having 1100 T-ATK is actually a lot more than 850 T-ATK.

Shifta: 19.7%
Shifta Drink: 20%

1105 T-ATK (from the build I gave): 217 + 221 (1543)
870 T-ATK: 171 + 174 (1215)

Difference of 328 T-ATK, which is roughly 13-16% damage.

Photon Flare is a bad deal. It's 20 T-ATK per 1 SP for 45 seconds, which amounts to 9 T-ATK per 1 SP. Photon Flare After Burst is 100 T-ATK for 30 seconds, which amounts to 30 T-ATK for 1 SP, equal to Rare Mastery Force. Since Motav adds the same amount of ATK regardless of Photon Flare's level, there's no reason to max it out or anything. Main reason to grab it is After Burst. The 1 SP in Photon Flare Advance has the same effect as putting it in Photon Flare, so I just put it there in case more PF skills get released.

Zanverse performs an attack equal to 20% of any attack performed by a person standing in the field. Wind Mastery applies its damage bonus to that 20%, increasing it to a max of 28.8% damage. It's affected by several other modifiers such as Shifta Strike, an enemy having wind weakness (or resistance), and some weapon latents, among other things. It adds a ridiculous amount of damage if you get a decent amount of people grouped in, but even by yourself it's worth using, since it can be crafted to reduce its charge time to as low as 0.5s and doesn't cost much PP due to TB PP Save.

Wand Gear uses T-ATK, but is a striking attack. Force has no striking modifiers at all and lacks Shifta Strike. Hunter boosts WG by 60% and wand strikes by 76% (with Shifta Strike, this is 76% and 93% respectively). Force just can't compete.

Hmm guess its a fair point to get more flat T-atk if there are no more multipliers. I don't fancy mixing 2 elements of the FO tree at the same time cause that would probably kill access to skills that do matter. A difference of 13~16% is quite huge o.o I'm not to sure if I will spend all SP On the T-atk skills since I tend to also like a little support (TE tree has some but sadly most good ones need main class) but T-atk up High is one I will get at least.

I'm not sure if I follow the calculating of the PF you use I never understood formula's and that kind of stuff in games really. I do have a Motav to go along with PF since that the char my FOTE is based on wields a book. Most likely will use that the most for normal regular playing and switch to Lightning Talis/Rod for when I need more damage or switch to Fire tree in general.

Zanverse is quite good then, I know a few people who use it but I never bothered to give it a shot myself. I will play around with it once my levels are higher. Does level of Zanverse matter anything or is a lv1 Zanverse just as good as a LV17?

Also most likely going Fire/Light and Lightning/Wind builds. Ice and Dark just doesn't appeal me that much.

[ChocoboRRR]

Pics or get out. Math adds up, but I don't believe you actually have that unit setup.

No, you are poor. I am rich it is simple as that.


female newman race? (cmiiw)

Female newman masterrace*

Edit: In reality Garuga you are just a hater. During mhp2 days. While I simply reached final boss within 1 week release date using a new weapon called tachi. People like you who come at mh3 only to fend hate on people who can't read Japanese language and getting them banned on msg board despite many of them got great potentional. And those guy now crushing the gaming tournament. And you are wondering why USA trash tier? You know nothing in life.

[KASKADE]

http://i.imgur.com/8zXCq.gif

Anyway, what's a solid amount of PP to have as a Fo/Te? Upgrading to Saiki set soon and wondering if I should go for just pure t-atk (diabo/tech/modulator/t boost) or at least throw in an elder soul instead of diabo since Saiki gives 150 hp bonus. I currently run with around 160-170 depending on the weapon but my current units are extended for PP bonuses.

[LonelyGaruga]

Hmm guess its a fair point to get more flat T-atk if there are no more multipliers. I don't fancy mixing 2 elements of the FO tree at the same time cause that would probably kill access to skills that do matter. A difference of 13~16% is quite huge o.o I'm not to sure if I will spend all SP On the T-atk skills since I tend to also like a little support (TE tree has some but sadly most good ones need main class) but T-atk up High is one I will get at least.

I'm not sure if I follow the calculating of the PF you use I never understood formula's and that kind of stuff in games really. I do have a Motav to go along with PF since that the char my FOTE is based on wields a book. Most likely will use that the most for normal regular playing and switch to Lightning Talis/Rod for when I need more damage or switch to Fire tree in general.

Zanverse is quite good then, I know a few people who use it but I never bothered to give it a shot myself. I will play around with it once my levels are higher. Does level of Zanverse matter anything or is a lv1 Zanverse just as good as a LV17?

The tree I gave has all of Techer's relevant non-staple support skills grabbed. TB PP Save, Reverse Bonus, and Super Treatment. The other support skills are main only or awful (Shifta Advance is the sole last remaining damage booster which is why I put 7 SP in it). Force has no support skills whatsoever, it is a purely offensive tree. Don't worry too much about support skills, Techer and support techs already cover that. And besides that, there isn't any spare SP for T-ATK Up 1/2 on the Force tree anyway unless you spec in ice (or no element at all), so nothing lost there.

Photon Flare lasts for 45 seconds and has a cooldown of 100s. 45/100 = 45%. Photon Flare gives 20 T-ATK per 1 SP. So if you have 1 SP, you have +20 T-TAK for 45 seconds and +0 T-ATK for 55 seconds. 45% of 20 is 9, so in practice, using Photon Flare as often as possible (which you more or less should due to After Burst), every SP in Photon Flare is equivalent to getting +9 T-ATK. This is for comparison with T-ATK Up skills, since they both work basically the same way. Same principle applies to Photon Flare After Burst. It's active for 30 out of every 100 seconds. It provides 100 T-ATK during the time it's active. 30% of 100 T-ATK is 30 T-ATK. The same idea can also be applied to Motav Prophecy. +400 T-ATK for 45 out of every 100 seconds. 45% of 400 is 180 T-ATK (which is actually really weak by the way, this is equivalent to about 7-9% when you could be using elemental tech latents for 16% damage buffs or species latents for 20%). Since the potential is only dependent on Photon Flare being active, Photon Flare giving +20 or +400 T-ATK doesn't make a difference, Motav will always add +400 during its duration.

The only thing that changes about Zanverse as it levels up is the proc rate for mirage. Level 1-4 = 18%, level 5-9 = 19%, 10+ = 20%. There's no reason to go past level 10, in other words.


Edit: In reality Garuga you are just a hater. During mhp2 days. While I simply reached final boss within 1 week release date using a new weapon called tachi. People like you who come at mh3 only to fend hate on people who can't read Japanese language and getting them banned on msg board despite many of them got great potentional. And those guy now crushing the gaming tournament. And you are wondering why USA trash tier? You know nothing in life.

I didn't even play MHP2. I was introduced by a random guy months after MHFU came out. I've never even joined a forum for MH. Stop talking please.

Also, Tachi/LS was introduced in MH2. Not MHP2. And reaching the final boss is no big deal, people regularly do that in a couple days of a MH game's release.

[ChocoboRRR]

Also, Tachi/LS was introduced in MH2. Not MHP2. And reaching the final boss is no big deal, people regularly do that in a couple days of a MH game's release.

And what make you think people do to that? There is not a single hindsight about MH1 speeding game to less than 1 week same to MH2.

[Sizustar]

http://i.imgur.com/8zXCq.gif

Anyway, what's a solid amount of PP to have as a Fo/Te? Upgrading to Saiki set soon and wondering if I should go for just pure t-atk (diabo/tech/modulator/t boost) or at least throw in an elder soul instead of diabo since Saiki gives 150 hp bonus. I currently run with around 160-170 depending on the weapon but my current units are extended for PP bonuses.

130~150 PP should be enough.
There are people that go for 200+ PP...

[milranduil]

I sit around 175 and am pretty happy with that amount. I do still run out on occasion, but usually due to my own mistakes more than anything (or lag!).

[Z-0]

That would require a capped FOTE Newearl will ALL T-ATK increasing skills (which shouldn't be happening...), a pure T-ATK mag (a given), and about 120 T-ATK per unit. Unless you're counting Shifta?
Nah, it's easy.

As a dewman, I have 1525 T-Atk with just my units and no weapons in lobby.
[spoiler-box]http://puu.sh/fEAWJ/5529360929.jpg[/spoiler-box]
Skill tree is this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09fbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm0 jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo000000jd BbsiN2SJIeXlkGA000007oInfcKIbGAGAkbIxIkGAcA000000I bIo0000008doIb0000008). (well not when I took this screenshot, but has the same amount of T-Atk as the tree I had anyway)
Units are the negro set with +120 T-Atk (very attainable now if you know what you're doing)

[Webst3r]

Are there any updated guides on Elysion builds? I can't seem to find any.

[Perfect Chaos]

I forgot to include unit set bonus when I did my calculations. LOL
Still coming 30 T-ATK short of 1585, though, from what ChocoboRRR's saying he has. Skill simulator says 1105 (unless it's wrong?) with those skills and pure mag, and I'm assuming he has a Negro set. 1105+360+90=1555. Am I forgetting something?

[Z-0]

It's Rare Mastery Force. If you unequip your weapon and don't move the cursor, it still shows:

http://puu.sh/fFaoV/a4e5ed5ad4.jpg

[ChocoboRRR]

What happen if you play FO too good.
[spoiler-box]http://i61.tinypic.com/2jf9kn.jpg[/spoiler-box]
Solo lane.

[Dephinix]

Yeah, Fire Force is incredibly difficult to play.

[LonelyGaruga]

Wow, Chocobo is so good he wiped out the mobs before they even spawned. Amazing.

[Ce'Nedra]

The tree I gave has all of Techer's relevant non-staple support skills grabbed. TB PP Save, Reverse Bonus, and Super Treatment. The other support skills are main only or awful (Shifta Advance is the sole last remaining damage booster which is why I put 7 SP in it). Force has no support skills whatsoever, it is a purely offensive tree. Don't worry too much about support skills, Techer and support techs already cover that. And besides that, there isn't any spare SP for T-ATK Up 1/2 on the Force tree anyway unless you spec in ice (or no element at all), so nothing lost there.

Photon Flare lasts for 45 seconds and has a cooldown of 100s. 45/100 = 45%. Photon Flare gives 20 T-ATK per 1 SP. So if you have 1 SP, you have +20 T-TAK for 45 seconds and +0 T-ATK for 55 seconds. 45% of 20 is 9, so in practice, using Photon Flare as often as possible (which you more or less should due to After Burst), every SP in Photon Flare is equivalent to getting +9 T-ATK. This is for comparison with T-ATK Up skills, since they both work basically the same way. Same principle applies to Photon Flare After Burst. It's active for 30 out of every 100 seconds. It provides 100 T-ATK during the time it's active. 30% of 100 T-ATK is 30 T-ATK. The same idea can also be applied to Motav Prophecy. +400 T-ATK for 45 out of every 100 seconds. 45% of 400 is 180 T-ATK (which is actually really weak by the way, this is equivalent to about 7-9% when you could be using elemental tech latents for 16% damage buffs or species latents for 20%). Since the potential is only dependent on Photon Flare being active, Photon Flare giving +20 or +400 T-ATK doesn't make a difference, Motav will always add +400 during its duration.

The only thing that changes about Zanverse as it levels up is the proc rate for mirage. Level 1-4 = 18%, level 5-9 = 19%, 10+ = 20%. There's no reason to go past level 10, in other words.

Right, so FO should just 100% focus on nuking stuff. I got other chars that main TE for supportive play anyway. I guess Deband Cut /could/ be nice to use but costs to much SP to get that deep in the tree as offensive force and I'm sure there will be Techers around that have them all maxed anyway.

Ah I see now, this makes quite a lot more sense now. I will mostly use Motav for casual play anyway and switch to elemental tech latents when needed but it's still fun to read what Motav can do with its latent (I didn't select it for it's latent though heh).

Shame Zanverse doesn't add more after level 10. Is it even worth to use Mirage Boost to make Zanverse mirage work more? I guess not since its no raw damage boost and you can manually dodge enemies anyway. Just trying to check my options here.

Anyway thanks for answering all my questions so far.

[LonelyGaruga]

SE Boost skills are lame because they multiply the SE odds instead of adding to them. They also cap at 1.1x. So if you max out Mirage Boost, you get a whopping 22% chance to inflict Mirage instead of the normal 20%. Pretty awful use of 10 SP.

[Ce'Nedra]

Right, noted, won't waste SP to that stuff.

[Skize]

Is Seimei Kikami still the best talis weapon for Dark FO/TE?

[Perfect Chaos]

Yes, it is.

[Bellion]

Dark Ares Talis is the best, Seimei is 2nd.

[Perfect Chaos]

Well, I guess, technically, but one does not simply walk into UQ and grab themselves a Ares Talis (let alone 2 dark ones). XD

[Z-0]

You do if you're Bellion. （’・＿・‘）Mr. 3 Rifles in 3 hours.

[milranduil]

You do if you're Bellion. （’・＿・‘）Mr. 3 Rifles in 3 hours.

Wow stealing kemi face.

[yucachann]

Got the 11s Jet Boots from the Stone Shop and don't think it's any worth at all.

I got it to Lv.1 and although it feels a bit faster, I still think a Seimei Kikami is still better. If I just want quick damage I should just use an uncharged Namegid from Elysion.... Maybe it's useful just because it's Jet Boots, nothing much really IMO

Also should I get power craft Ilfoie or charge craft? Feels like power craft is more worth it, but I don't know.

Speaking of Ares Talis, 300+ Anga with 350%+Daily+LR3+Temptation and not even a unit (´・ω・｀)

[LonelyGaruga]

Bio Boots are trash for Force because their potential doesn't boost techs at all. Besides crafted boots, your best option would be the TD Combo ones (there are barely any other Force equippable jet boots, regrettably). But given the potential starts at 3%, crafted weapons are basically always better.

Ilfoie doesn't have a power recipe. Do you mean another tech?

[GoldenFalcon]

Ilfoie got shit on. The negative power crafts (both of them) became twice as penalizing with the update to power notations.

This also entirely ruined power crafts for Ilgrants and Nazonde. I am not pleased, and stopped playing force because of this

[milranduil]

You stopped playing FO because 3 of the more balanced techs got craft nerfs while the rest of it became more broken?

[SakoHaruo]

If only someone would craft me a Super Saiyan Namegid, my power could rule worlds. v_v


Stupid RNG machines holding me back from greatness. D:

[GoldenFalcon]

You stopped playing FO because 3 of the more balanced techs got craft nerfs while the rest of it became more broken?

Yes. Their blatant disrespect to Technics tore me apart.

[SakoHaruo]

Yes. Their blatant disrespect to Technics tore me apart.

What a huge crybaby. You act like you can't kill with current tools. o3o



I can't kill with Namegid v_v

[Perfect Chaos]

Bio Boots are trash for Force because their potential doesn't boost techs at all. Besides crafted boots, your best option would be the TD Combo ones (there are barely any other Force equippable jet boots, regrettably). But given the potential starts at 3%, crafted weapons are basically always better. He wasn't talking about Bio Jet boots; he was talking about エルアエトス, the one that reduces Dark Techniques' charge time (which happens to be Force-equipable).


If only someone would craft me a Super Saiyan Namegid, my power could rule worlds. v_v


Stupid RNG machines holding me back from greatness. D:To my surprise, Na-Megid is the only tech that I have with absolutely perfect merit on its craft. Plenty of perfect demerits, but getting perfect merit is so much more difficult. >_<
Glad it didn't land into your hands, though, since I like the world as it is now: one without a dictator.

[Natsu Nem]

You stopped playing FO because 3 of the more balanced techs got craft nerfs while the rest of it became more broken?

B-But...
B-But...

Elysion/Sazan 16 :-(

[milranduil]

B-But...
B-But...

Elysion/Sazan 16 :-(
I was looking for the perfect picture to respond to this... I was not displeased.
[spoiler-box]
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/331/811/0d6.jpg
[/spoiler-box]

[LonelyGaruga]

Ilfoie got shit on. The negative power crafts (both of them) became twice as penalizing with the update to power notations.

This also entirely ruined power crafts for Ilgrants and Nazonde. I am not pleased, and stopped playing force because of this

Ilfoie was still better off uncrafted. Ilgrants is better off with the swift recipe. Nazonde is junk and never beat out Sazonde anyway.

Minor complaints at best, especially since Force is a top tier class right now. It was hugely buffed with EP3.


He wasn't talking about Bio Jet boots; he was talking about エルアエトス, the one that reduces Dark Techniques' charge time (which happens to be Force-equipable).

Ah, right. Bio weapons use stones, while that one uses pyroxenes, so I thought they meant Bio.

Still kinda bad considering the lack of damage. Boots aren't really useful unless you can take advantage of their double jumping or their hover. Don't think that applies for any dark techs beyond something really gimmicky like floating out of range of a boss while charging Namegid. But who would wanna do that, hah.

[schnee4]

why 90% english player give Ares Rod fire?
where is common sense???

[Z-0]

Seems like it's part of 90% of English Players, apparently.

[LionHeart-]

Wouldn't mind some analysis on my builds guys!

Fire Tree with Light/Dark Techer: http://tinyurl.com/k2v8pww
My Ice tree is here: http://tinyurl.com/poc3zu6 -

On the Force Fire/tree I Currently have 8 points (10 with Fo cubes) in Photon Flare but I'm thinking of resetting and shoving them into T-Atk 2? Well its either more T-Atk or PP but I prefer the T-Atk in a way. Though there is the talis boost but I cba with that lol.

For the Techer tree, I decided to max out Light and Dark for; both my fire/ice trees on Force. Don't know why I spent a point on wand gear, but after getting all the goods; I have about 7sp's left, 8 counting the 1 from wand gear lol, should I put them into T-atk? I think i'll soon get a Lightning Fo tree with wind Techer tree to max out Zandion or something of that sort; as Ultimate Desert and the rest are probably Wind/Lightning. Though I am not so sure what to spend points in for the Lightning/Wind Tree, since I will have like 20 or so free; I guess I could always S+D? or Put into T-atk?

What do you guys propose? Thanks :3

[Dephinix]

Ditch Freeze Ignition, Freeze Keep, I'm not sure. It helps, but overall, I still don't find it worth it.
I don't think you really need maxed Territory PP Save, having PP Charge Revival, but surely preference.
Talis Tech Bonus is always great if you don't mind using them. The extra power for Ilbarta is always nice.
Putting 2 points in Photon Flare and 1 in Photon Flare Afterburst isn't a bad idea either. 40 t atk for 45 seconds, and then 100 t atk for 30 after.
Ice tree has a lot of points left over after getting rid of the gimmicky stuff. Normal Tech Advance can be a thing for Sabarta, Ilbarta, and I believe Nabarta.

[Perfect Chaos]

Only get Normal Tech Advance and use those three aforementioned Barta tech if you plan to use Elysion, though.
As for the Techter tree, get Super Treatment! It's personally my favorite skill in PSO2. 1 skill point for a level 6 PP Convert without the HP reduction whenever anyone gets statused is pretty great (and you heal a bit of HP in the process). On some stages like Volcano and Coast, you essentially have infinite PP Convert since you can self-inflict status on yourself pretty easily. Also, I would suggest putting two points into Wind Mastery 1 and one point in Wind Mastery 2, since that's a significant boost (for Zandion and Zanverse, if nothing else) for just 3 points. Also, if you plan to use Wand Gear, you should put 1 point into Wand Lovers as well, as it gives you infinite gear and access to a regular step (good for Zondeel -> backwards step -> smack!).

[LionHeart-]

Ditch Freeze Ignition, Freeze Keep, I'm not sure. It helps, but overall, I still don't find it worth it.
I don't think you really need maxed Territory PP Save, having PP Charge Revival, but surely preference.
Talis Tech Bonus is always great if you don't mind using them. The extra power for Ilbarta is always nice.
Putting 2 points in Photon Flare and 1 in Photon Flare Afterburst isn't a bad idea either. 40 t atk for 45 seconds, and then 100 t atk for 30 after.
Ice tree has a lot of points left over after getting rid of the gimmicky stuff. Normal Tech Advance can be a thing for Sabarta, Ilbarta, and I believe Nabarta.

Yeah, I am having two thoughts about Freeze Ignition because it doesn't do that much damage I expected it to do, and you sometimes forget pressing the activation button anyways lol. It does around 10 - 16k, which is barely anything in Ultimate Mode/EQ.

I like Freeze Keep because its very handy since Ice enemy status has become quite popular and in the future, I think Ice freeze status will come very handy for irratic and high HP monsters. Though, I haven't tested it out with or without properly to see the difference.

Well I support quite a bit, so its handy for multiple S&D and resta, along with Zondeel too. Do you mean PP Convert? I tried its lower levels for a while, before I max it and at max its excellent in having a great amount of PP constantly being recovered. But I keep them on the back burner for now. Hah, makes sense with the PF thingy, xD!


Only get Normal Tech Advance and use those three aforementioned Barta tech if you plan to use Elysion, though.
As for the Techter tree, get Super Treatment! It's personally my favorite skill in PSO2. 1 skill point for a level 6 PP Convert without the HP reduction whenever anyone gets statused is pretty great (and you heal a bit of HP in the process). On some stages like Volcano and Coast, you essentially have infinite PP Convert since you can self-inflict status on yourself pretty easily. Also, I would suggest putting two points into Wind Mastery 1 and one point in Wind Mastery 2, since that's a significant boost (for Zandion and Zanverse, if nothing else) for just 3 points. Also, if you plan to use Wand Gear, you should put 1 point into Wand Lovers as well, as it gives you infinite gear and access to a regular step (good for Zondeel -> backwards step -> smack!).That's true and what I was thinking. Even with rod and Sabarta, the damage would still be shit and not worth the points. That's a great idea! Thanks for that, I will deffo invest in it, as that makes total sense, meohaah! Yeah that's a good reason for the extra boost in Zandion, even on a tree that doesn't specialized in it, the extra % does help. I do use a TE/BR just to level up TE with Wand smacking but I probably leave it out on my future ST.

Thanks for the response guys, interesting ideas... Wouldn't mind some more input though :3

Here's something I drafted up quickly for:

Fire Tree/Techer: http://tinyurl.com/kt9rncu
(http://tinyurl.com/kt9rncu)
Ice Tree/Techer (Same TT as Fire): http://tinyurl.com/mwthxe4
(http://tinyurl.com/mwthxe4)
Lightning Tree/Wind (Zandion): http://tinyurl.com/n9t6r6z

[Perfect Chaos]

Even if you want Freeze Keep, level 5 is overdoing it. Level 2 is significant for non-XH/UQ, as enemies die before they unfreeze with that. For bulkier enemies in XH/UQ, having up to level 4 may help a bit.
If you take 1 point from Freeze Keep, moving it to Bolt Mastery is an option to boost Zandion. If you take 3 off from it, then going for Photon Flare Afterburst is an option.

[Alma]

why 90% english player give Ares Rod fire?
where is common sense???

this remind me of my old question on quick question thread that haven't been fully answered.

can anyone provide a breakdown of the pro/con about choosing certain element for ares tech weapon (rod/talis/jb)?

what best for each type?

[HeyItsTHK]

Haven't played Force in a bit and outside of copy pasta techs people are using (in any case my fire and ice trees are just fine, techer wise it seems I need to go light now apparently), what's good with the skill tree? Photon Flare cool to have now or naw? I remember it used to be pooped on even after Ep3, what's good now?

[Valen13]

If I had only one skill tree, what would be the best possible build?

[TaigaUC]

Photon Flare is okay now. I get it when I have points to spare, and I use it alongside PP Convert or when Zandion is ready.
Or you can just try to keep it up all the time.

Best possble build depends on your preferred playstyle and the weapons you happen to get.
Fire and Ice are both strong right now. Fire involves Tech Charge and the Fire casting skills.
For Ice, non-charge damage up skill works well with Elysion's latent + Na Barta. Sa Barta does decent damage that way, too.
Ice will still need Tech Charge for Il Barta. Il Barta works best when you're with many Ice casters.

You could spec Techer to supplement your Fire/Ice with Light or Wind.
Or if you like Wand melee, you could get that instead of Light/Wind but it'll hurt your casting ability a little.
Wand melee works best with Te/Hu (correct me if I'm wrong) and seems very tanky. Makes very short work of trash mobs at close-ish range.

If you don't intend to use Techer as main, you can forego all the main Techer-only skills (Shifta Strike, etc).

[LonelyGaruga]

Haven't played Force in a bit and outside of copy pasta techs people are using (in any case my fire and ice trees are just fine, techer wise it seems I need to go light now apparently), what's good with the skill tree? Photon Flare cool to have now or naw? I remember it used to be pooped on even after Ep3, what's good now?

2 SP in Photon Flare is a staple for Photon Flare After Burst, which grants 100 T-ATK for 30 seconds after Photon Flare expires (this amounts to, in practice, the same amount of T-ATK as Rare Mastery Force, slightly more counting Photon Flare). Photon Flare itself had its HP penalty removed and is no longer in the ice tree, so it's pretty accessible now. Main reason to recommend it now is probably because there's more SP to use than when EP3 first hit? I dunno, I thought it was fine once EP3 hit, it's just that going full Photon Flare is usually unviable unless you're skipping Force elements and relying on Techer elements.

There isn't really anything else that's particularly different about the Force tree. Pick an element and grab all the damage skills, pretty much.

Techer is more or less the same as far as subclassing for Force goes. Max PP Convert is more viable and pretty much a staple due to a fair number of techs exceeding even max PP Convert's regeneration time (Nafoie, uncharged Sazonde spam, Ragrants, uncharged Namegid spam, stuff like that). The increased HP penalty usually doesn't make a difference, it's 5% less HP from level 6 to 10. As a level capped female Newman with no HP from units or affixes (514 HP), that's 385 HP with level 6 and 359 HP with level 10, a 26 HP difference. Most stuff that would kill you with 385 HP would kill you at 359, so no big deal really. Even if you use an HP crafted unit (+100 HP for 614), level 6 is 460 HP and level 10 is 429 HP, a 31 HP difference. Again, most stuff that reaches 429 could usually reach 460. PP Convert level 10 regenerates 33% more PP than PP Convert level 6, which is really vital for DPS.

Probably a bit of an information dump, but point is, max PP Convert is good now, otherwise nothing's different.


If I had only one skill tree, what would be the best possible build?

Fire or ice for Force, light for Techer either way.

Fire example (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsiN2SGBekIb6cKIx00000ioIn00000000IbIo0000008d oIb0000008)
Ice example (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsfHn2SGBdXdnikGAIbIn00000ioIn00000000IbIo0000 008doIb0000008)
Light example (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09rDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0lo00000007oInfcqIbfGAdBIxIkGAJIcA000009bIo0000008 doIb0000008)

Can adjust them in a few ways, those are just what I use. Maybe take out the Wind Masteries from the light build and put them in other areas.

[19026]

Hello all. I'm a new player and I'm currently a Force+Techer, low 60s. My biggest concern right now is how to gear. I'm intimidated to join public groups because I don't want to be seen as a leech. What path should I take to gear? Advanced Quest? Extreme?

I'm not Premium so I can't buy the really nice weapons off player shops. I am using random 9 star rods that I am able to buy, upgraded to 10. I have access to Fahren rod but I never seem to get any abilities on them, and the elements are always low. Is it still worth upgrading Fahren weapons to +10 despite the low elements and 0-1 abilities?

I'm also unable to do Emergency Quests because I am never able to be on during those. Been farming for Nepto Rod and anything 10 star+ with no luck.

I can't submit links because of my low post count but my skill trees are very similar to what LonelyGaruga above me posted for Fire+Light.

Thanks in advance!

[Dephinix]

Personally, I don't consider anyone a leech unless they have really low def units without extension, or have gear that isn't +10. +10 isn't that
hard for most things, but if an 11 star or 10 is too much to ask of, then it would be better to just use a +10 8 star or whatever. A lot of people
don't get that a +5 11 star is really week, from what I've seen, lol. I don't think you have to worry from what I read though. Affix wise, most
people just like seeing 60 atk per piece, just because it's pretty easy nowadays.

[19026]

Personally, I don't consider anyone a leech unless they have really low def units without extension, or have gear that isn't +10. +10 isn't that
hard for most things, but if an 11 star or 10 is too much to ask of, then it would be better to just use a +10 8 star or whatever. A lot of people
don't get that a +5 11 star is really week, from what I've seen, lol. I don't think you have to worry from what I read though. Affix wise, most
people just like seeing 60 atk per piece, just because it's pretty easy nowadays.

Thanks for your reply. My units right now are the T-DEF Fahren set from that crafter robot person. They're not extended because I've read different things on whether or not to extend that set. They are upgraded to only +7 (I know...Monica hates me) but I plan to get them to +10 eventually.

Would it be wise for a Force to go Premium to buy a rainbow collection of Potential Lv3 +10 rod like Vibras Rod, Esca Ermes, etc? (I don't know the best 10 star rods). Or should I just tough it out with my 9 stars (+10, 50 all elements) and try Super Hard Advance Quests for 11 stars and then go Premium to trade in for tickets? I read that they drop 11 stars in there, but I don't know if the drop rate would be practical.

Also, how much more T-ATK would a rod need to make up for a non-50 element attribute? For example, if I could buy a weapon that has +174 over my current weapon, but only 31 Element vs 50, would the +174 still be an upgrade?

[TaigaUC]

Hello all. I'm a new player and I'm currently a Force+Techer, low 60s. My biggest concern right now is how to gear. I'm intimidated to join public groups because I don't want to be seen as a leech. What path should I take to gear? Advanced Quest? Extreme?

You sound like a nice person.

I don't think AQ or XQ are worth doing for gear anymore. XQ is great for cash, though. Do those dailies from Chroto.

Fahren units are pretty decent, although I'd have gone for the Dex/Abi set instead of TDef (my personal preference).
The TDef set gives more PP, but the Dex/Abi set is more balanced between HP, PP and general defenses.

I don't really recommend the Fahren weapons, as they're expensive to grind, and a huge pain to max element.
From what I saw, most of their latents aren't worth the money invested, and they aren't even resellable.
You should learn to affix your own abilities. It's much cheaper to do so nowadays than before. Selphea has a great guide on how to do this.
There's an upcoming affix success rate event coming up. Try to save up and prepare for that.

Personally, I don't bother with rainbow stuff.
My casters are currently either Fire or Ice with Wind or Light sub.
I go for weapons with +Fire or +Ice latents, or -PP cost reduction.
You should be able to buy some cheap 7-9 star weapons with these kinds of latents, or perhaps aim for common 10 stars (not sure if there are any).
Then you can craft extend them by requesting the extensions from other players.
Try to get them to the levels that use silver ASAP, so you won't have as huge a damage variance penalty.
If I recall correctly, a maximum extended weapon is about as strong as a low tier 11 star?
Some 10 stars may not need to be extended.

Edit: I looked up the fire latents. Looks like the only non-10+ star is the Laconium wand.
http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E6%BD%9C%E5%9C%A8%E8%83%BD%E5%8A%9B#gur enkesshou
If you decide to try that, there are probably some on sale with good affixes. Search with Mark Angal as the affix. With fire element, they seem to range from 500k to 2m.
You'll need to buy a Class: Force to apply on final extend, so that you can Force main it. Those are currently 850k.

Tech customization is important. Try to get some good ones ASAP if you haven't already.
Don't bother getting level 1-2 recipes, just aim for level 3.

[19026]

You sound like a nice person.

I don't think AQ or XQ are worth doing for gear anymore. XQ is great for cash, though. Do those dailies from Chroto.

Fahren units are pretty decent, although I'd have gone for the Dex/Abi set instead of TDef (my personal preference).
The TDef set gives more PP, but the Dex/Abi set is more balanced between HP, PP and general defenses.

Thanks for your input! The table of potentials that you linked from the JP wiki was very helpful.

That's too bad to hear about SHAQ and Extremes. They're the only "other" types of quests that are available to me with my play schedule.

As for the Fahren units, my DEX is still too low for the hybrid set. I'll definitely revisit them once I reach level cap. Hopefully a female Newman has enough DEX to use them by then.


You should be able to buy some cheap 7-9 star weapons with these kinds of latents, or perhaps aim for common 10 stars (not sure if there are any).

On my Ship, which is low pop, the common 10 stars are things like Vibras Rod, and a few others which are all fully upgraded with Potentials. There are lots of good 11 stars too that I can afford, but since I don't know where to farm 11 star drops to use as exchange ticket fodder, those feel moot.

[LonelyGaruga]

As for the Fahren units, my DEX is still too low for the hybrid set. I'll definitely revisit them once I reach level cap. Hopefully a female Newman has enough DEX to use them by then.

Female Newman have 430 DEX at level 70/70, so you can equip it by then.

Though, crafted Negro units would be better. They're 9* so you can buy them, but they also drop from TD. You can mix HP and PP crafts as necessary depending on how much HP you need. The set bonus is +90 T-ATK and +10 PP, so you can have anywhere between +10-40 PP from the units alone. The only set bonus with similar ATK are XQ units, which don't have anything else to really offer. You can also go Saiki, but those are 11*. Those are also preferably crafted for PP, with HP as necessary.

[Shinamori]

Is Photon Flare any good? If you want to get the most t-atk you can possibly get?

Also, how is this for a force tree (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsfCA2SGBIk9kIx00000ioInfcKcBGAGAigIkfGAcA0000 09bIo0000008doIb0000008)?

[Z-0]

Absolutely dreadful, because Flame S Tech Charge is a necessity for Fire.

I recommend this one (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsiN2SGAeX8cKIk00000ioInfcKcBGAGAigIkfGAcA0000 09bIo0000008doIb0000008).

[Shinamori]

would you suggest a similar build for lightning and ice?

[Perfect Chaos]

For Lightning, just transfer the points from the Fire branch into the corresponding skills in the Lightning branch. For Ice, transfer the 20 points in the two Masteries to the Ice ones, and as for the other 10 points, you can...
1) Put in Normal Tech Advance if you plan to use Elysion with Ice techniques.
2) Put all into T-ATK Up 2 (although I personally wouldn't)
3) Put all into Photon Flare (Advance)
4) Put 2-4 points in Freeze Keep (more than 2 is really only useful for UQ and maybe XH, and maxing at 5 is overkill, IMO) and the rest into Photon Flare (Advance).

[Shinamori]

Would craft weapons be alright with force? Got like a ice heretic saw with 95 t-atk. I'm currently doing around the same damage as I was with the nepto rod. WHich was 10k~12k (when I was on a cast) on UQ enemies.

[LonelyGaruga]

Heretic Saw is quite good, it should be fine/better uncrafted.

[Shinamori]

Ah, cool. Could I got for Wind one VS a wind talis? Or just get a wind rod.

[KazukiQZ]

^Wind Talis (Either crafted Maisen or Green Duel Gaze) is, IMO, better than other two options.

For Green Duel Gaze tho, you might want to craft it due to having rather large requirement (420 Dex). I have both version (crafted and uncrafted), and they seems to be similar in damage dealing.

If you can get Wind Rod too, use it to use closed ranged Nazan and better Ilzan control. While Talis main Tech should be Sazan and Razan.

[Shinamori]

Okay, awesome. One more thing (maybe:P). Would an fire Ancient oath bow do more damage than a bert or talis, or would fire talis still out damage them?

[LonelyGaruga]

It would do less damage than either since the potential and T-ATK are weaker.

By the way, about wind, this is what I would recommend for them.

Rod: Zan, Gizan, Nazan, Ilzan
Talis: Gizan, Razan, Sazan
Wand (Elysion): Razan, Sazan, Nazan
Jet boots: Zan

[nathanielzor]

It would do less damage than either since the potential and T-ATK are weaker.
Bert Rodan: 1072 T-ATK at +10
Rikauteri: 1072 T-ATK at +10

T-ATK is the same... :( Ofc the Bert Rodan will have 2% more damage from Fire. 14% vs. 16% but still. If you plan on playing Fo/Br the Ancient Oath bow would definitely be the best option because of Banishing Arrow goodness. But as far as Fo/Te goes, Talis ftw.

Just fyi Shinamori.

[Shinamori]

Yes, but talis sucks for casting some techs though.

[LonelyGaruga]

Bert Rodan: 1072 T-ATK at +10
Rikauteri: 1072 T-ATK at +10

T-ATK is the same... :( Ofc the Bert Rodan will have 2% more damage from Fire. 14% vs. 16% but still. If you plan on playing Fo/Br the Ancient Oath bow would definitely be the best option because of Banishing Arrow goodness. But as far as Fo/Te goes, Talis ftw.

Oops, misremembered Bert Rodan has having 1076 T-ATK. Never mind about the T-ATK then. But yeah, no reason to use it unless you're Fo/Br.

Foie, Gifoie, Safoie, and Nafoie all have good reasons to be used with a rod. Talises are good for all of them but Foie, but ideally both would be used.

[Dephinix]

Damage aside, should never aim to cast with a bow, imo.

[Z-0]

Bow is great to cast with for Banish strategies, but that only works as FoBr.

I also like to use Rikauteri over Bert Rodan because it has step, since Mirage Escape is like the worst evasive move ever. It might have a lot of i-frames, but it has a huge duration that might end up getting you hit anyway since a lot of things in SH move quickly.

[Dephinix]

Short hop mirage escape, problem solved.

Said damage aside, cause I believe casting speed is pretty bad with bow. Been a few days since I've really played though.

[LonelyGaruga]

Problem isn't solved because bow has Step Attack access, so you can JA faster after dodging, which actually leads to higher potential DPS. Pity that bows have the worst Step out of every weapon with Step, but eh.

Weapon tech speed is the same for every weapon (including bare-handed) except for wands, which are slightly slower.

[Kayarine]

I find bow step attack terrible because it's so slow, but that can be remedied by snatch step JA, I think. Only briefly checked that it works with bows (and wands) on my TeBr.

Also I don't know if I just have to get good, but I never manage to dodge anything ever with bow step... I can dodge just fine with other weapons that have step.

[Z-0]

All weapons work with Snatch Step JA apart from blades and boots, which is a shame. Would have love it on boots.

[LonelyGaruga]

Also I don't know if I just have to get good, but I never manage to dodge anything ever with bow step... I can dodge just fine with other weapons that have step.

Bows have the slowest Step out of every weapon that has Step, even worse than swords. Dunno if there's less invincibility, but the timing is definitely harder than other weapons with Step.

[Ce'Nedra]

I'm sure its been asked and answered before but how good or bad are the Ice Tree skills? Is there any point in getting them at all cause iirc enemies defreeze the moment you hit them. Same for Dark tree's Ignition.

Just for future purpose, I bought 3 FO and TE trees so I can mix any element I want~

[nathanielzor]

I'm sure its been asked and answered before but how good or bad are the Ice Tree skills? Is there any point in getting them at all cause iirc enemies defreeze the moment you hit them. Same for Dark tree's Ignition.

Just for future purpose, I bought 3 FO and TE trees so I can mix any element I want~
Those skills are garbage. All of the status effect boosts are garbage as well, and all of the ignition skills.

Ice is best with Photon Flare since you'll have so many more points for it because you don't have to grab Flame Charge Boost or Lightning PP Save.

[LonelyGaruga]

Photon Flare isn't that great (beyond the 2 for Photon Flare After Burst) because the 10 SP an ice tree saves compared to fire/lightning can be invested into T-ATK Up 2, for 75 more T-ATK that is affected by Shifta and Shifta Drink (effectively 109 T-ATK). 10 SP into Photon Flare is 200 T-ATK for 45 out of every 100 seconds, which is equivalent to 90 T-ATK, and it doesn't get Shifta (Drink) applied to it, so T-ATK Up 2 is a better deal.


I'm sure its been asked and answered before but how good or bad are the Ice Tree skills? Is there any point in getting them at all cause iirc enemies defreeze the moment you hit them. Same for Dark tree's Ignition.

Enemies have freeze broken on them as something dependent on the attack that hits them. Most techs are 2-3 hits before breaking freeze, while other attacks instantly break it. 1 SP in Freeze Keep increases the durability enough that a frozen enemy can essentially be considered a defeated enemy. More than that isn't necessary. Freeze Boost and Ignition are just plain awful though, so ignore those entirely. Personally, I don't use Freeze Keep, but it does have merits, so you can grab that if you want.

[Ce'Nedra]

Mhh intresting, Might just dump 1 point into it and rest in T-atk up 2 then on my ice tree. Freeze Keep could be nice for UQ I guess.

[ChocoboRRR]

Mhh intresting, Might just dump 1 point into it and rest in T-atk up 2 then on my ice tree. Freeze Keep could be nice for UQ I guess.

Good point on wasting them. My Force don't have T-atk up 2 and freeze keeps. Just a Ice Rod unaffixed and kill UQ mobs using gibarta before they get close. And there is always a crafted Rabarta in my solution.

[Perfect Chaos]

Mhh intresting, Might just dump 1 point into it and rest in T-atk up 2 then on my ice tree. Freeze Keep could be nice for UQ I guess.If you're going to get T-ATK Up 2, then you should max it, since the last point gives the most out of any point from it. If that 1 point in Freeze Keep takes away from that, then it's better to just skip Freeze Keep. But it's possible to max that and still get Freeze Keep, I guess, depending on how you allocate the other few extra points.
Also, you'll definitely need more than 1 point in Freeze Keep for UQ to keep them frozen before they die.

On a side note, if you're have less than 9 points available for T-ATK Up 2 (such as for Fire/Lightning trees), then putting points into Photon Flare would be more effective in every scenario. But even comparing max T-ATK Up 2 and +200 in Photon Flare, one can argue that, even though mathematically 75*1.2*1.197=107.73>90=200*0.45 making T-ATK Up 2 technically superior, some of the downtime of Photon Flare would be nullified since you'll be running around the field without enemies during the cool-down (making the effective Photon Flare average higher). You activate Photon Flare when you begin an engagement with enemies, so you're guaranteed a huge +200 during the fight (then the cool-down is likely to partially take up some time when there's nothing to attack). In situations against most bosses, Photon Flare wins out completely, as ideally, you'll be killing the boss within 45 seconds, anyway. So this is something to consider as well.

[Ce'Nedra]

I don't plan on anything for Ice or Dark right now but I think I would use ice soley in UQs, if i would even run UQ with my FOTE character. How many points of Freeze Keep we talking about to make it last on UQ?

Right now Photon Flare does alot for me due to using Motav still (waiting till boost week to 5s my units and after that hopefully buy elemental rods), it easily adds like 500 T-atk when activating it, pushing me to 3600T-atk range with my Motav. Next time I log in I'll post my skill trees for the sake of it. I'm pretty sure people will comment I should move some SP around but I'm rather satisfied with how they are right now.

[LonelyGaruga]

On a side note, if you're have less than 9 points available for T-ATK Up 2 (such as for Fire/Lightning trees), then putting points into Photon Flare would be more effective in every scenario. But even comparing max T-ATK Up 2 and +200 in Photon Flare, one can argue that, even though mathematically 75*1.2*1.197=107.73>90=200*0.45 making T-ATK Up 2 technically superior, some of the downtime of Photon Flare would be nullified since you'll be running around the field without enemies during the cool-down (making the effective Photon Flare average higher). You activate Photon Flare when you begin an engagement with enemies, so you're guaranteed a huge +200 during the fight (then the cool-down is likely to partially take up some time when there's nothing to attack). In situations against most bosses, Photon Flare wins out completely, as ideally, you'll be killing the boss within 45 seconds, anyway. So this is something to consider as well.

Since you should always have Photon Flare for Photon Flare After Burst, the actual ideal thing to be doing is using it all the time to benefit the most from PFAB, since it's only active during PF's cooldown. Putting it like that, you can have T-ATK Up 2 maxed, 2-4 SP in Photon Flare (depending on how much you allocate to Freeze Keep), and Photon Flare After Burst, as opposed to dumping the 10-12 spare SP into Photon Flare.

T-ATK Up 2: 129-149 for 45s, 209 for 30s, 109 for 25s (average of 148-157)
Photon Flare: 240-280 for 45s, 100 for 30s, 0 for 25s (average of 138-156)

I didn't take into account Shifta Advance for T-ATK Up 2, so with that it's a clear cut advantage in terms of averages, though not by much, admittedly. But either way, it's best to Photon Flare as often as possible to make the most of Photon Flare After Burst.

For a more in practice example, here's my (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsfHn2SGBekIbikGAin00000ioInfcKIbwNGAqBIxIkfGA 2N000009bIo0000008doIb0000008) skill tree as an example.

Assuming I were to take out the 10 points of T-ATK Up 2 in favor of Photon Flare, the comparison would look like this.

T-ATK Up 2: 1180 base T-ATK, PF+80
Photon Flare: 1105 base T-ATK, PF+280

Shifta Drink: 1.2
Shifta: 1.97 * 1.17 (1.23049)

T-ATK Up 2: 1180 + 236 + 271 (1687)
Photon Flare: 1105 + 221 + 254 (1580)

T-ATK Up 2: 1687 + 80 for 45s, 1687 + 100 for 30s, 1687 for 25s (average of 1753)
Photon Flare: 1580 + 280 for 45s, 1580 + 100 for 30s, 1580 for 25s (average of 1736)

Not a big difference, but it's pretty clear that T-ATK Up 2 is the better investment, even if the difference isn't even worth 1%.


How many points of Freeze Keep we talking about to make it last on UQ?

Freeze Keep, at 1 SP, doubles freeze durability. 2 SP is triple durability, 3 SP is quadruple, etc. 2 SP should be sufficient.

[Perfect Chaos]

In instances where Photon Flare gives you more than Afterburst, it's best to not use it all the time, since you get more at the beginning. The playstyle changes depending on which is higher, so it's not effective to compare it directly like that.
I have never liked the idea of activating Photon Flare prematurely, in hopes that the Afterburst comes at the exact right time. Afterburst might not come when you need it, and might come when nothing is around. Then when enemies do come, Afterburst might be over. Due to problematic timing like that, it greatly widens the range of effective gain if one just uses Photon Flare ASAP just to get Afterburst. Hence why I like to have at least +100 in Photon Flare, to avoid such variance and focus on a playstyle where I activate it when I need it. This gives you more control over when the boost happens, which would ensure a more consistent boost for when you need it.

[LonelyGaruga]

Why would you ever not use Photon Flare when it's available? The damage boost is more useful for mobs than it is bosses. Outside of TAs, I'm not seeing a reason for it.

For the record, I just mean always using Photon Flare when enemies are present, not activating it the instant it comes up every single time. That's wasting time. The point of an overall higher average on damage is to be better at mobbing, which is the main focus of the game (and what Force does best), so yeah. Honestly, it's just a few extra %. Saving it for bosses is a waste.

[Perfect Chaos]

Nowhere did I say to save it for bosses. When you said, "you should always have Photon Flare for Photon Flare After Burst, the actual ideal thing to be doing is using it all the time to benefit the most from PFAB," it made it seem like you were activating it as soon as it is available, no matter if enemies are present or not, in order to get Afterburst as soon as possible. What I said was to simply wait to activate it when enemies are present. I didn't say to wait for a boss. (It's just that it'll be more useful than T-ATK Up 2 in the case of a boss.)
I guess there're just a lot of misunderstandings here.

Either way, the two are pretty comparable. For general mobbing, the average of Photon Flare is only a bit lower, but that gets offset at bit by the likelihood that the cool-down is during enemy downtime. I guess it's mainly up for preference in this case.
(None of my Force trees have enough points to max T-ATK Up 2, anyway, so it doesn't even apply to me. LOL)

[LonelyGaruga]

Oh, yeah. When you said "save it for when you need it", that sounds like a boss skill to me, or at least something that's only going to be used occasionally. So just bad communication, haha.

[Ce'Nedra]

So as promised, these are my current skilltrees how I use them, based on the info I been getting here from some of you guys mixed with what I like and how I play.

Lightning/Wind (Motav only right now, will get Lightning Talis and Wind Rod)
Lightning/Wind (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbsiN2SGBdXGAGK7n00000ioInfcKfwNGAqBIkIkfGA2N00 0009bIo0000008doIb0000008)

Fire/Light (Only have Fire Rod atm, getting Caduceus later)
Fire/Light (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0jdBbniN2SGB2k8cKIx00000ioInfcKfwNfqBIkIkGAcAdn000 009bIo0000008doIb0000008)

Ice/Dark (Not using so far but probably going with Ice Elysion and Dark Rod)
Ice/Dark (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?09uDbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm jda8dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 0lobniN2SGAIklkGA000007oInfcKfwNGAqBIkcKcAfdn00000 9bIo0000008doIb0000008)

My TE trees are pretty much the same aside the masteries. I can pretty much mix them however I want but this is what I generally want to use them as. I do find myself using Fire/Wind in stuff like TD right now due to Zandion and Nazan. I'm still in work in progress on gear and my mag isn't lv190 yet (168 right now) and I still lack alot of lv16 and 17 Techs.

[LonelyGaruga]

The light tree for Techer and ice tree for Force are missing some skills (75/87 for Techer, 64/87 for Force). Are you going to max PP Restorate on the Techer tree? Rest of the trees look good, though I'd recommend Talis Tech Bonus for the fire tree since talises work well with Gifoie and Rafoie, and the extra damage helps. That's about all I have to say on them.

Oh, and grab Wand Gear + 1 SP in Wand Lovers for any build you intend to use Elysion with. Having Step is extremely valuable.

[Ce'Nedra]

Oh oops, seems I forgot to get PP Restorate on that one. Ice is left open on purpose cause didn't knew yet what to do with the ice skills. I still don't know if I want to get a fire talis since I already got a fire rod (and I already got no money to gear her up right now, stole fire rod from my FO/FI). Mostly what I use is Rafoie, Nafoie and Safoie. I actually don't use Foie, Gi Foie and Il Foie really.

I planned to add Wand Gear and Lovers when I do the cube SPCOs.

[Perfect Chaos]

Na-foie and Sa-Foie are also good on Talis after a Zondeel, so definitely get the Talis when you can. Although, there is really not much reason to use Na-Foie these days. If you are near the enemy, Sa-Foie does nearly as much damage with almost half the cost. If you're far away, then Na-Foie has a good chance of missing, so Ra-Foie would work out better (and both have a similar Damage per PP ratio). If you're using a Talis, after Zondeeling, you can Na-Foie, I guess, instead if you think Sa-Foie (or Gi-Foie) won't kill the enemies (but make sure the Talis isn't too low to the ground or else Na-Foie would not hit with the ball hitbox). But if Sa-Foie can OHKO in this case, then use that instead.

FYI, you can get a 50-Fire Koushousen right now on Ship 2 for about 3.5 million by getting two Light ones and a Fire change item.

[Ce'Nedra]

I will keep it in mind for later on. I just happen to have scratched a Fire Changer last week. I tried to Nafoie from my Motav before but all that just happened was a bunch of fire on the floor and no damage. I guess my aim was to low but if I aim to high Zondeel won't grab stuff I guess...might work against fliers like El Ahda's?

I'm still getting used to Talis at all, I find myself cast more from my hand then from actual throw talis so far despite the 20% boost.

[Shinamori]

Is the Negro Set still a viable option over the saiki set? I'm also looking at the Diabo Sets which has 100+ atk set bouns. Oh wait, no, you need to weapon with it. ;E

[Ce'Nedra]

I just got Negro set myself, the 9* and crafted them for PP. Diabo set would be awesome if it wasn't for the Partisan requirement. I would farm Diabo like no tomorrow otherwise.

[LonelyGaruga]

I will keep it in mind for later on. I just happen to have scratched a Fire Changer last week. I tried to Nafoie from my Motav before but all that just happened was a bunch of fire on the floor and no damage. I guess my aim was to low but if I aim to high Zondeel won't grab stuff I guess...might work against fliers like El Ahda's?

Try TPS and aim just slightly above neutral.


Is the Negro Set still a viable option over the saiki set? I'm also looking at the Diabo Sets which has 100+ atk set bouns. Oh wait, no, you need to weapon with it. ;E

Yes, Negro's good. Tied with XQ units for highest T-ATK, but has +10 PP over them. Using it myself personally.

[Z-0]

Someone do maths for me because I don't really know how everything works:

20 base T-Atk versus 30 static T-Atk (or if you want specifics, one point in High Up or one point in Rare Mastery Force).

Trying to figure out if I should max T-Atk High Up or leave it at 4/5 and get a point in Rare Mastery Force for my TA trees. Assume that in every case I'm using team tree (18% to whatever it boosts), and don't count Shifta Drink EX (since I will be using weak drink with these trees). Advance and Strike do not count either.

[LonelyGaruga]

20 base T-ATK with ATK boost from tree and level 17 Shifta without any other modifiers (just a heads up, Shifta Strike doesn't affect the gain from Shifta, it's just a separate multiplier) is 20 + 3.6 + 3.94 (27.94), so Rare Mastery Force would be better here.

[Hysteria1987]

Let's pretend for a moment- just a hypothetical situation, of course- that someone, somewhere, is maybe kinda sorta considering being silly enough to try and 8-slot their FO/TE's equipment. Let's talk recommendations for a moment-

Said hypothetical person is currently running the following-
* Diabo Soul
* Latan Fever
* Vinculum
* Technique III
* Spirita Boost

And what they're looking at, for a final result (knowing the above is likely to get worse before it gets better)-
* Diabo Soul
* Latan Fever
* Modulator
* Technique III
* Spirita Boost
* Flict Magia
* Returner III
* Stigma

Are there any recommendations as to what could be better? One thing I found (I mean, this hypothetical person found...) playing around in the Dudu simulator just now is that you can't have both Stigma and Flict Magia- I'd never thought they were related... but that assumes the simulator is correct, and this I don't know yet. If so, there will be a required change there...