Pros/Cons Between PSOGCN and PSOX?

[DeLiRiUmTrIgGeR]

Could someone give me some of the differences or good things and bad things between the two? I own both an Xbox and a GCN, I'd just have to purchase XboxLIVE to play PSOX, since currently i'm on the Gamecube format.

Maybe someone could swing me one way or the other?..

[satoshi1]

I'd go with gamecube because it's cheaper overall. On the Xbox one you have to buy Xbox Live, even to play offline PSO, then ya still gotta add in Sega's fee... The only real downside that I can see is that the cube doesn't have a harddrive so saving takes a bit longer and it doesn't have voice chat, but you could always get a Datel Powerboard for $20.

But the decision is up to you, i'm only providing some of the facts, you may ask others for their input.

[Skuld_0]

it depends really...IMO i would go for the x-box becouse my friends play, you get the keyboard and voice chat which ever you like... SOOOO many characters its not even funny.No double savingin game online..it hardly ever does any of that noticably...when people join the game its fast as crap.... psox is a lot xmoother and faster ...id say if you have both systems by the xbox version...its all about the same anyway


xbox - 200 GC - 150
xbl- 50 BBA/Modemadapter- 40
pso - 40 pso - 50
two free months one free month
8.95 after 8.95 after

after three months of playing about the same amount for both systems so.. you make the call

[The_Pew]

I agree with Skuld_0

[DeLiRiUmTrIgGeR]

Ok guys, have you played the GCN version at all? or did you just start out on PSOX?

[DeLiRiUmTrIgGeR]

Oh and another thing I forgot to mention, aren't there tons of people hacking their characters to LV200? I also heard they have that annoying thing where if you piss them off they can turn your character into a level 15 RA with a handgun and a frame..that's it.

Also, aren't there thousands of hacked weapons with like 100% for every stat? If it's really like what I've heard from my sources (i.e.-Robomonke) It doesn't sound like a very fair/fun environment to be playing in.

[NodMan]

On 2003-04-24 09:15, satoshi1 wrote:
I'd go with gamecube because it's cheaper overall. On the Xbox one you have to buy Xbox Live, even to play offline PSO, then ya still gotta add in Sega's fee... The only real downside that I can see is that the cube doesn't have a harddrive so saving takes a bit longer and it doesn't have voice chat, but you could always get a Datel Powerboard for $20.

But the decision is up to you, i'm only providing some of the facts, you may ask others for their input.




I agree and I think after seeing both played GC runs a little smoother online.

[SirDonovanIII]

No sure about Deleriums post, i havn't seen it yet, but have heard of it.

As for gameplay, XBOX is pretty much the same as GC. Little differances, nothing major. Personally, I changes over to XBOX for the voice chat. I have had GC PSO since the beginning of NOV, and love it, but I preferr talking as opposed to typing. I thingk that would be the major deciding factor. Either way you are gonna have fun.

[Mumfo]

I have a gamecube and an Xbox, i would go with the Xbox version 100%.

[Blenjar]

On 2003-04-24 11:39, Mumfo wrote:
I have a gamecube and an Xbox, i would go with the Xbox version 100%.


Same here. And its NGC, not GCN. Type it right.

[Reanimated]

aren't there tons of people hacking their characters to LV200? I also heard they have that annoying thing where if you piss them off they can turn your character into a level 15 RA with a handgun and a frame..that's it.

Also, aren't there thousands of hacked weapons with like 100% for every stat? If it's really like what I've heard from my sources (i.e.-Robomonke) It doesn't sound like a very fair/fun environment to be playing in.


Wow, I don't think I've ever heard so much complete bulls*** in one post before.

[x66Shadow66x]

I have both Gamecube and Xbox and I would got with PSOX. Xbox Live is just the deciding factor IMO. It is great in the way it is set up, has voice chat, and there are no 56kers on to lag it up. And that post about all that hacked shit, it is bs. There maybe one or two ppl with a modded xbox who have hacked characters but thats all I've seen so far. Stop spreading bullshit.

[Symtex]

On 2003-04-24 12:17, x66Shadow66x wrote:
I have both Gamecube and Xbox and I would got with PSOX. Xbox Live is just the deciding factor IMO. It is great in the way it is set up, has voice chat, and there are no 56kers on to lag it up. And that post about all that hacked shit, it is bs. There maybe one or two ppl with a modded xbox who have hacked characters but thats all I've seen so far. Stop spreading bullshit.



Amen to that. Get over that the xbox is made by microsoft and you are gonna love the xbox live. Trust me. I've been playing online for a long time and the voice chat is so intuitive and add another dimension to the gameplay.

[kat]

Just thought that I'd add one thing: all debate is invalid if you only have dial-up internet.... X-Box live requires a broadband connection. So if you're stuck with dial-up you don't really have a choice if you want to play online.

[x66Shadow66x]

This is true but it's totally worth it. How is the lag factor in GCN with the 56Kers?

[Starherozz]

I would go for the Xbox cause i played both and i like the xbox more cause it got more people

To answer this question "How is the lag factor in GCN with the 56Kers?" You never play GC before dont you ? there almost absolutely no lag at all , you can't feel a thing.

[Pungee]

One major con for the Xbox version:

http://www.psolife.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1842

[RagMasterRappy]

On 2003-04-24 13:09, Pungee wrote:
One major con for the Xbox version:

http://www.psolife.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1842

Yep, it's true and not BS.
Also, you can check out these related topics:
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=46115&forum=4&73
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=49142&forum=4&13
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=48485&forum=4&47
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=48599&forum=4&13

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RagMasterRappy on 2003-04-24 13:30 ]</font>

[ancutcho]

maybe since the japanese version was hacked, those are just pics from the japanese psox. i duno but i hope those pic are fake.

[DeLiRiUmTrIgGeR]

In the most sincerest way, thanks RagMaster, these people are just a little too hot-headed when it comes to PSOX..

Anyway, thanks guys (most of you), for now I'm sticking with the GCN version (yes you retard that IS how it is typed). Unless my Powerboard never comes, I'm sticking with it.

[Reanimated]

The cheating is EXTREMELY limited on PSOX due to the fact that you have to have a SECOND Xbox with a Modchip installed to be able to perform these hacks.

There is only one known player that has been seen with a hacked character and he has been reported to MS by several hundred people.

So, saying that cheating is rampant on PSOX is a complete bullshit statement. Not only that but PSOX has a reporting system built into the game, therefore making it easy to keep the hacks and hackers out becuase the community polices itself.

Thank you, please take your dumbass happy meal and drive the fuck through.

[Starseed]

Xbox Live- no keyboard and voice chat

Xbox- 199
Live- 49
PSO- 39
keyboard adapter- 7 or be happy with voice chat
Hunter fee- 8.95 after 2 months


GameCube- 149
BBA adapter- 45
PSO- 49
keyboard- 40- 50
Hunter fee- 8.95 after 1 month

Really not much difference! It's preference really. I have played both and prefer at this point the Xbox. Either way though- you're playing PSO- why complain http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

peace

[Danderdag]

I don't own the cube one, but I'm a longtime vet of DC PSO. The keyboard worked for the time, but honestly people saying 'i don't like voice chat' or 'voice isnt a big deal' must have never used it.
I will NEVER play this game without voice chat again. I have the KB adapter for my xbox and I use my keyboard alot, but voice is THE factor. Nothing else matters.

[Kurosawa]

Not even as nice a feature as voice chat can make up for weapons with hacked 100's as far as I'm concerned. It's pretty sad, really. They need to go server-side with the saves. X-Box PSO is ruined already.

[Danderdag]

Uh, there's like 2 people hacking. From what I understand the cube one is way worse off. And I think Malcolm X might have finally been banned, I didn't see him yesterday at all (you can report people for cheating, lots of people did).

[Para]

please refer to my post =O
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=48879&forum=4&3

pso pc has something to do with this... trust me...

[Nishpa]

Another factor to consider if you have broadband and a computer is external voice chat. You can just use a computer voice chat program (I use ms sidewinder game voice, shareware version supports up to 4 people at once), and I always have the server going when I play with friends. So for me the gamecube version usually does have voice chat.

[Danderdag]

And then you can only chat with your friends, and you have to have your PC in the same room, etc. I mean seriously now, that's only an option for very few people. The plain facts are that the only compelling reason to choose the GC version is that you can play on foreign servers.

[DeLiRiUmTrIgGeR]

why don't you people leave me the fuck alone about "spreading my bullshit rumors"? I just said i HEARD from someone that's how it was. What kind of fucking grounds do you have to get mad at me?

[mightyJoeDunn]

About this post

http://www.psolife.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1842

I don't think that is the Japanese version. Wouldn't it have the item writing in Japanese, not English? Oh, and by the way it is GCN not NGC, get it right. It may sound weird but that's how it is.

[Danderdag]

Nobody gives half a rats behind whether its NGC or GCN or whatever. I just say 'cube' or GC personally.
Both games are hacked, but the dupes and hacks are FAR more prolific on the cube version.

[WEBSTER]

I wonder if those pictures of all the hacks where from an online game? And about those hacks being in english you can always change the japanese text to english in the import. Maybe that might add a little light on all the aparrent ramps of supposed hacks on the Xbox.

[rena-ko]

its GCN, not NGC - NGC would be neo geo color

then... if you have both consoles, dont mind to not be able to play with europeans and/or japanese people and if you have broad band and if you'd like to play more games online besides pso, then get the x-box version.

if you'd like to chat with people all over the world, get the cube version and get yourself an ascii-keyboard or else something to type.

[Danderdag]

there is no such thing as a neo geo color.
There is NGPC, but that's neo geo pocket color (which I also own, EXCELLENT system).

[s3rial_one]

I've played both versions, and I'm with Danderdawg: the only reason to choose the GCN version over the Xbox would be to play internationally. Availability of broadband and what systems you currently own, notwithstanding.

The hacks in PSOX are anything but prolific. Supposedly, Malcom X; the guy who was doing it, has been banned. I've not seen anyone with (obviously) duped or hacked weapons. As for the GCN... I wish I could've said the same.

[nivek-wolf]

well if your asking this queston i asum you have xbox live and if you dont you should ask your self
one queston do i play one online game on a system that has no other online games or do i play all
kinds of veraity of games online [xbox live is
a camunity of gamers] that can talk to each other
weather its smack or stratagy.As much as i lovce nintendo i totly disagre with there remarks about online gameing.i realy would love to see mario cart
online or evan a star fox flight online game oh
well E3 will tell

[MadCowChuck_]

Ah, Delirium. I think you and I both know the answer and out come to this.

Personally...and you know me...I'd stick with the GCN (GameCube of Nintendo) version of PSO. I know right off the bat you have your spanky broadband adapter and such, so that is not withstanding there.

Personally, I don't appreciate voice chat too much. There are a lot of people that do, but I personally (and don't flame me--this is called an "opinion") do not think it improves the game much at all. Voice chat is handy and all, but I have enough voices in my head as it stands...I'd think you'd feel the same way http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

That, and hopefully Nintendo will pick up their Internet line of games. The major argument seems to be that XBox has a wider selection of games for the 50 buck fee. This is true, and there's no denying that fact. However, do not forget that you're paying for those games, as well as the PSO fee after two months. I know you're online and paying that fee already on GCN, and I wouldn't think at this point that you have a whole lotta money to blow. Stick with what you have.

Finally...the GCN community is much more developed at this point in terms of level and variety. There are still many PSOWers like myself on GCN, and that ain't gonna change. The community is strong, and it'll stay that way.

And what about duped items? Live with it. If someone is so anal about the duped items, then don't trade. Simple. Duped items are a part of life now, it's been that way on other RPGs...and it seems there will always be online RPGs with duping. Again, if you're anal about duped items...don't trade. You can't get illegit items if you don't trade...unless of course you dupe. But I know you don't. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, my final argument is that you already have GCN PSO, and that's your safe bet for now. Duped items, voice chat, international servers aside, it's the same damn game. If you have one version, there's no point to switching now. Live with the dupes, without the voice chat, and just have some damn fun. It's pathetic in sorts that people become so divided over two versions of the same game that they resort to console bashing and debate over whether or not a picture is real. There is two versions. There will be two versions for a while. But for God's sake, people: It's the same game.

Well...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[august]

both games are duped, haxored, etc. and banning one person isn't going to do shit about that.

i play PSO on a 28.8 connection, and there is NO lag. only problem i get, is about a 1 second delay after picking up items, and rarely people will see monsters in different places than i do... which doesn't affect anything.

[Danderdag]

Actually, banning one person helps tremendously, when there are so few people capable of hacking the xbox version. Malcolm X was really the only menace out there.

[Kenks23]

On 2003-04-25 00:22, Danderdag wrote:
there is no such thing as a neo geo color.
There is NGPC, but that's neo geo pocket color (which I also own, EXCELLENT system).



AMEN TO THAT

[Droxitr]

On 2003-04-24 11:41, Blenjar wrote:
Same here. And its NGC, not GCN. Type it right.


Yes the thing is called Nintendo GameCube, but it is abbreviated as GCN.

I dunno. Some stupid thing Nintendo did to... uh... look retarded? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[CrashCat]

The main differences I can think of between XBox and GCN versions:

Advantages to XBox:
Voice chat available
Keyboard adapter cost/ease of ordering
Lower retail game cost
Number of free trial months
Hard disk (large number of chars storable)
Somewhat increased security
Seems to be faster saving
Built-in ethernet adapter
Controller layout somewhat more similar to Dreamcast

Advantages to GCN:
More established playerbase (since released earlier)
Modem adapter available
Screenshot feature
Can be played offline for only box cost (no Gamertag)
Non-retail game cost can be same or lower (used/ebay)
System is easier to transport
More of the online quests currently available


Of course, some of those differences are not PSO's fault but just the consoles' features. There are some other differences I can't think of and I might not be 100% accurate on this, but it should be enough for you to pick one or two features that are most important to you and make your choice. Of course, you also want to consider the REST of the games for each system, in case you don't want to just play PSO forever...

[Getintothegame]

On 2003-04-24 11:41, Blenjar wrote:

And its NGC, not GCN. Type it right.



I am speechless... but laughing.

NGC= Neo-geo pocket color
GCN= Nintendo Gamecube

[PlatinumGame]

On 2003-04-25 08:45, MadCowChuck_ wrote:
Ah, Delirium. I think you and I both know the answer and out come to this.

Personally...and you know me...I'd stick with the GCN (GameCube of Nintendo) version of PSO. I know right off the bat you have your spanky broadband adapter and such, so that is not withstanding there.

Personally, I don't appreciate voice chat too much. There are a lot of people that do, but I personally (and don't flame me--this is called an "opinion") do not think it improves the game much at all. Voice chat is handy and all, but I have enough voices in my head as it stands...I'd think you'd feel the same way http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

That, and hopefully Nintendo will pick up their Internet line of games. The major argument seems to be that XBox has a wider selection of games for the 50 buck fee. This is true, and there's no denying that fact. However, do not forget that you're paying for those games, as well as the PSO fee after two months. I know you're online and paying that fee already on GCN, and I wouldn't think at this point that you have a whole lotta money to blow. Stick with what you have.

Finally...the GCN community is much more developed at this point in terms of level and variety. There are still many PSOWers like myself on GCN, and that ain't gonna change. The community is strong, and it'll stay that way.

And what about duped items? Live with it. If someone is so anal about the duped items, then don't trade. Simple. Duped items are a part of life now, it's been that way on other RPGs...and it seems there will always be online RPGs with duping. Again, if you're anal about duped items...don't trade. You can't get illegit items if you don't trade...unless of course you dupe. But I know you don't. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, my final argument is that you already have GCN PSO, and that's your safe bet for now. Duped items, voice chat, international servers aside, it's the same damn game. If you have one version, there's no point to switching now. Live with the dupes, without the voice chat, and just have some damn fun. It's pathetic in sorts that people become so divided over two versions of the same game that they resort to console bashing and debate over whether or not a picture is real. There is two versions. There will be two versions for a while. But for God's sake, people: It's the same game.

Well...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



That has to be...the best post I have read on these forums--ever. All message boards needs more like you, Chuck.

[Webapprentice]

The question was asked about how bad lag is for 56 K users. There is not that much of a lag for modem users on the Gamecube. The game runs on the client side, so even if there brief periods of lag, the client side can deal with it.

The latency is much more noticeable if modem users play with broadband, but I've played with a broadband user (T3 connection at a college) regularly, and I don't see any lag. In fact, it seems when there's lag, it is often on that person's end (probably because everybody is trying to do stuff on that T3 - filesharing, etc.)

I'm glad that the modem option is available. I don't have a strong need for broadband right now (I don't have a need to download movies, music, or play network games), and it costs at least twice as much as dial-up.

Rant:
I tend to respect developers who program for modem users a lot more, since a game has to function well with such limited resources. With so much computing power these days, I think a lot of developers don't bother to optimize code, especially networking code. That's why I enjoy PSO a lot: it is playable on a modem.

[Danderdag]

PSO runs fine on any connection, yes, that's cause it was originally designed with 56k in mind on the DC. I must admit though, it's disappointing that there's so little client synch going on in this day and age. Now voice chat simply wouldn't work on dial-up of course.

[sparktenks]

I have a X-Box and a GCN, I liked the idea of voice chat on PSO since you can comunicate much faster this way. But I went with the GCN version. There are few reasons I did. First reason is most of my friends from the DC version went with teh GCN version also alot of PSOW people too. Second reason is that the GCN version cam out first and I couldn't wait. Three and this is the best reason for me. I had to choose whether I was going to purchase another GCN or X-Box so me and my g/f could play together online. The GCN version was cheaper even with broadband adapter.

From what I see of the X-Box version it look pretty much the same, so there really isn't any good reason to bash it. I think it will establish itself as another fun version of PSO. It's to bad that GCN players and X-box players can't play with each other.

[Danderdag]

No it's not, threads like this have proven it...can you imagine the lobbies and games?
'XBOX SUXX0R!'
'GC SUXX0R!'

[Blue147]

The only real pro I can thing of for xbox is it has voice chat,but thats not that great.Cons for xbox only broad ban/cable and there are hacked weapons with 100% on then and so on.Pros for game cude little to none hacked weapons,you can use 56k and up,and lager fan base because it can out first and you can use 56k and up.Oh xbox has the hard drive wicjh lets you save alot more chars,but cause of the hard drive there are hacked weapons.

But who cares the xbox,game cube,and ps2 blow.
The SNES and the sega shall rule all.MWUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

[Mello]

I hate these "which is better GCN or XBOX posts". it doesnt matter, as about the Nintendo Internet issue. Miyamoto announced that there shall be a BIG announcment at E3.but that actully has nothing to do with PSO.the GCN and XBOX versions of PSO are the same (in a way). all the really matters is that it is a PSO game.

[PlatinumGame]

It is not just a typical "which is better" topic. If you read the title, and at least skeemed the entire thread, you would see that some posts have value, and are worth reading.

[Para]

frankly..
security GCN > XBOX
loading time, technological issues XBOX > GCN

the rest is up to you

[Danderdag]

Where does everybody get off with this 'security is better' and all that jazz. Have you even logged onto the xbox version? The hacks are virtually nonexistant, especially now that Malcolm X has been banned. Security on the xbox version is FAR superior.

[Blue147]

On 2003-04-26 22:21, Danderdag wrote:
Where does everybody get off with this 'security is better' and all that jazz. Have you even logged onto the xbox version? The hacks are virtually nonexistant, especially now that Malcolm X has been banned. Security on the xbox version is FAR superior.



LMAO.That's funny.Do you try to be stupid?I have the xbox codes,if you want to see them I'll pm them to you.

[Danderdag]

Why would I want to cheat? I'm saying are other people stupid? I mean seriously, you can cheat in every version, at least on xbox you can be banned, or if you try to cheat while you're connected IE: you mess up or whatever, your xbox and XBL account will be banned basically automatically.

[Danderdag]

I mean honestly, like I've said the hacking is far from prolific on xbox, but it will exist in every PSO until SEGA wises up and makes a sequel that is either online-only, or stores all character data online (IE like diablo 2, if you have a realm character you can only play that character on b.net).

[Blue147]

If M$ told you that you could fly and all you had to do was jump off a building you would beleive them.

[s3rial_one]

You have the codes, eh Blue?

PM them to me, I'd like to see the "codes" that let one cheat on XBL...

You are aware that "codes" aren't capable of causing dupes and the like for XBL, right? No, unlike most consoles, when someone says someone hacked (or cracked) the Xbox to cheat in PSO, he's actually right. Cheating in PSO on XBL requires a degree of skill and knowledge that's way beyond the average gamer's; it's not just some talentless assclown sitting there with an Action Replay, punching in a couple hex strings from a manual. The current method requires a second, extensively-modded Xbox.

How many people do you know, or have you even heard of, that have a second chipped Xbox and the capability to get Linux up and running on it? And of those people, how many actually have PSOX and the desire to cheat?

Why is it that every doomsayer I've seen regarding cheating on PSOX hasn't even played it? It's like some sort of inbred thought process, where they've all heard from a friend who heard from a friend who read some guy's random post on a chatroom who has an anonymous "source" who doesn't have a bloody clue what he's talking about, that cheating is rampant on PSOX.

I'm not naive enough to say there's no cheating on PSOX; it's always possible, and any cheater with half a brain wouldn't make his actions publicly known, but I've never seen it, no one on the baords seems to have seen it, and no one I know that plays has seen it, either.

PSOX is, for all practical purposes, cheat, dupe, and hack-free.

EDIT: closing BBcode tags is a good thing. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: s3rial_one on 2003-04-27 12:53 ]</font>

[Blue147]

I'm sorry did I say code sdur stupid me,I meant game saves.But if you want the site sure I'll pm it to you.

[Revilo]

There is none

[Para]

if you've seen the PSOX files... its exactly like PSO PC files.... since PSO PC has many hacks for it already... the accessibility and the ground work available makes XBOX an easy target for hacking.

[Danderdag]

I imagine the file structure is basically the same in every version of pso =p Seeing as this is basically the same game as the cube version.
And yes, I've seen Malcolm X spreading his hacked items everywhere with his level 200 self, but not for many days, because SUPPOSEDLY he's GASP been banned. Other than that, I don't think I've seen anyone using anything that made me think they had hacked items or whatnot.

[Para]

On 2003-04-27 16:25, Danderdag wrote:
I imagine the file structure is basically the same in every version of pso =p Seeing as this is basically the same game as the cube version.
And yes, I've seen Malcolm X spreading his hacked items everywhere with his level 200 self, but not for many days, because SUPPOSEDLY he's GASP been banned. Other than that, I don't think I've seen anyone using anything that made me think they had hacked items or whatnot.


but your missing a mjaor point

because XBOX's relativity to a PC is so similar... its very easy to access those files... think about it! logic and deduction dictates if GC dont have such hacks then it means GC has something done right that XBOX doesnt??

[s3rial_one]

Nites,

Quit trying to wax philisophical. The format for saved files is the same. The only reason the GC hasn't been (hardware-wise) cracked is because there's no interest in it from the people who can do such. The Xbox has been cracked to hell and back because it's from Microsoft, and the hard drive makes it very appealing as a specialized PC, with the necessary mods. I can attest to that; XBMP is freaking incredible; so much so that I'm tempted to pick up a second Xbox just so I can use XBMP.

THe Xbox's similarity to a PC is meaningless in its ability to be hacked. Hard drive, memory card; they still store data the same way. They both access the internet the same way, and they both have their guts made by major PC players. Calling an Xbox a PC is like calling a 747 a F-16 because they both have engines made my Pratt & Whitney.

[Blenjar]

On 2003-04-27 17:18, s3rial_one wrote:
Nites,

Quit trying to wax philisophical. The format for saved files is the same. The only reason the GC hasn't been (hardware-wise) cracked is because there's no interest in it from the people who can do such. The Xbox has been cracked to hell and back because it's from Microsoft, and the hard drive makes it very appealing as a specialized PC, with the necessary mods. I can attest to that; XBMP is freaking incredible; so much so that I'm tempted to pick up a second Xbox just so I can use XBMP.

THe Xbox's similarity to a PC is meaningless in its ability to be hacked. Hard drive, memory card; they still store data the same way. They both access the internet the same way, and they both have their guts made by major PC players. Calling an Xbox a PC is like calling a 747 a F-16 because they both have engines made my Pratt & Whitney.


Go s3rial_one

[Para]

On 2003-04-27 17:18, s3rial_one wrote:
Nites,

Quit trying to wax philisophical. The format for saved files is the same. The only reason the GC hasn't been (hardware-wise) cracked is because there's no interest in it from the people who can do such. The Xbox has been cracked to hell and back because it's from Microsoft, and the hard drive makes it very appealing as a specialized PC, with the necessary mods. I can attest to that; XBMP is freaking incredible; so much so that I'm tempted to pick up a second Xbox just so I can use XBMP.

THe Xbox's similarity to a PC is meaningless in its ability to be hacked. Hard drive, memory card; they still store data the same way. They both access the internet the same way, and they both have their guts made by major PC players. Calling an Xbox a PC is like calling a 747 a F-16 because they both have engines made my Pratt & Whitney.



did i ever say XBOX was a PC no....
i said its similar to a PC not a PC. stop putting words into my mouth.



Hard drive, memory card; they still store data the same way.
but is it easier to access a hard drive's files than a memory card?? just because they store the same way doesnt mean they are the same.

think about it this way!
if hackers loved PSO on dcv2 obviously theres a good chance that they got GC PSO ep1 and 2 to continue on right??


They both access the internet the same way, and they both have their guts made by major PC players.
what does this prove??? this doesnt prove anything! right now the argument is about hackers and the XBOX not how the GC is like the XBOX.

just because XBOX is from microsoft, do people really care?? i mean why waste time to hack on XBOX on one single game??? i mean one single game which makes it that hackers all want to target XBOX
hackers have their own reasons and you are just stereotyping them.

frankly you havent concluded properly that its not XBOX's reason that hackers are all targeting XBOX and hacking it. there is a definite flaw in XBOX which allows it to be modified easily and hacked. why not a hacked GC?

[shiznitty]

im no expert on the subject, but i just dont really see the point in switching to xbox. I mean, if your already lv 200 why go anywhere? if you dont have a gc, then go for it, get psox. Thats how i think of it.

Ill probabliy get hate mail, andbill gates will hunt me down personally, but i think microsoft is a little .. ummm.. cant find the word for it, ahhhhh.... pompous?

[s3rial_one]

First off, you earlier claimed that an Xbox was so PC-like, that it was hackable with the same tools used to crack the PC version. While you didn't outright claim the Xbox was a PC, the insinuation was that they are so similar that the difference is irrelevant.

Second, no, it is no easier to access the Xbox's hard drive than it is the Gamecube's Flash Memory card.

As for the comparison between the GC and the Xbox, my point was that Nintendo didn't do something right that the Xbox didn't, it's that the systems are largely similar, save for the inclusion of a hard drive, and that the Gamecube isn't more secure, it's just that the crackers don't give a rat's ass about it.

And as for the product coming from Microsoft making a difference, yes, it does. Maybe not widely, but with the Slashdot/Freshmeat crowd it sure as hell does.

And where the hell are you getting that I'm stereotyping crackers?

*boggle*

...and not to be rude, but is this even English?:


frankly you havent concluded properly that its not XBOX's reason that hackers are all targeting XBOX and hacking it.

Look: there's no reason for anyone to crack the Gamecube. Cheaters have the action replay available, plus the duping bugs. The Gamecube doesn't do anything but play Gamecube games. It can't browse the web, it can't be a file server, it can't be a streaming audio system, it can't be a media box, and it can't store data. The Xbox, on the other hand, can do all those things, and more. Thus, there are many projects aimed at modifying the Xbox.

See, and now I'm hitting a wall, because I don't know how to counter your point because I'm not even sure what the hell it is. That the Xbox has some design flaw that the Gamecube doesn't? I already dealt with that. What else it could be is beyond me.

The bottom line is this: the Xbox is no less secure than the Gamecube. In fact, it's so far proven moreso, being resilient against the duping bug, and having Microsoft actually take action against cheaters, while Sonic Team and those morons from Sega of America sit their with their thumbs up their butts.

Nite, you obviously have very little technical, practical, or first-hand knowledge of this subject. I would think that would be rather apparent to anyone who reads this. So, to that end, what exactly are your trying to accomplish? What's your point?

[Kenks23]

lol this is really entertaining to read

[Blue147]

On 2003-04-27 15:48, Revilo wrote:
There is none


Want me to pm the site to you too?lol

[Danderdag]

there is no 'flaw' in Xbox that allows it to be hacked. There are things that can only be good, like a hard drive, and more common interface, that allow people to do some pretty awesome things with it. DC was the same way, although not NEARLY as much so. Does this mean that it makes hacking the game easy? NO. The people who are hacking their systems to run linux games ETC are for the omst part NOT the people who want to run around on PSO for 9 bucks a month spreading duped items. Whereas on cube, you don't NEED to 'hack' it, you just grab a codebreaker or action replay or whatever simple hex editing device is available, and edit the files.
Seriously, I say again, do any of you people actually have any experience with PSOX? This is the least hacked I'd EVER expect to see PSO. I'm amazed there aren't dupes all over the freakin place, I mean PSO is one of the most f'd up games of all time in that regard.

[JJ]

I own every version of this game I just recently bought the X Box version. Not only is the voice chat a big plus but the loading times are out of hand. The loading times on X Box are really fast its a huge difference. Sonic Team also did a few minor graphically changes so the X Box version does look a little better along with a more consistent framerate (not perfect though). Sound has also been improved. Hacking, you guys should stop assuming things. I have yet to see anyone hacking this game yet. If it was as easy as you claim everyone would be doing it. If you don't believe all this 'bout the X Box version you should go to IGN and video their video comparasion if you have insider. I'm not talkng crap.

[PinkyBloodyArt]

On 2003-04-28 00:37, Danderdag wrote:
there is no 'flaw' in Xbox that allows it to be hacked. There are things that can only be good, like a hard drive, and more common interface, that allow people to do some pretty awesome things with it. DC was the same way, although not NEARLY as much so. Does this mean that it makes hacking the game easy? NO. The people who are hacking their systems to run linux games ETC are for the omst part NOT the people who want to run around on PSO for 9 bucks a month spreading duped items. Whereas on cube, you don't NEED to 'hack' it, you just grab a codebreaker or action replay or whatever simple hex editing device is available, and edit the files.
Seriously, I say again, do any of you people actually have any experience with PSOX? This is the least hacked I'd EVER expect to see PSO. I'm amazed there aren't dupes all over the freakin place, I mean PSO is one of the most f'd up games of all time in that regard.



o boy, I can't believe that I am goin
to post this, please do not flame me and
call me a cheater, as I have never cheated
at pso. The reason That i am posting this
because i am tired of all the rumors.

Danderdag is right in that the box makes a
big target for hackers. where else can you
get a $200 server, more importantly the HDD
lets u place media on it from the net, ripped
games, build game mods, run LINUX, replace
the DVD drive and u can burn cd or DVD and
even games. Never underestimate the fact
that hackers get a thrill out of causing
trouble for M$. while the small disc size,
lack of a HDD and Ready internet ability make
the GCN less of a target.

But the real issue is security, and the
difference between GCN and XBOX. 1st know
that I graduated Devry with a degree in CEET
(Computer Electronic engineering Tech).
I have hacked into both my XBOX and GCN. Helped
make MOD chips for both as well. (please do not flame
me, we make mods that only override lockouts)
both are based on a PC design and are not
hard to hack. At least for someone with
training or experience. But how many of you
could do that? (even with help from the
web sites desiegned to help u do this?)
Both devices have a cheat disk (AR) one
the GCN alows you to input hex code, while
the other, XBOX, let you use modified game save files. You deciede which is easier to create
or use to dup items. But the real issue is
network security, and XBOX live has this in
spades over Sonic Team. Live is very hard to
hack. get around by turning off your chip yes,
but to hack no. m$ is looking for hacking on live all the time (again the power of m$). So
many people can hack offline in the PSOX but
few can translate that to an online ability,
and even if they do they will not evade m$
forever. For now PSOX has less hacked and
duped weapons, items and char goin around that GCN

on a side note playing both GCN PSO and PSOX
I would have to say the player base of PSOX
is at least more active than GCN as I see more
people on in the US servers. Yes I can get on
the JP servers, I imported PSOX JP.

PinkBloodyArt

[Para]

On 2003-04-27 22:13, s3rial_one wrote:
First off, you earlier claimed that an Xbox was so PC-like, that it was hackable with the same tools used to crack the PC version. While you didn't outright claim the Xbox was a PC, the insinuation was that they are so similar that the difference is irrelevant.

Second, no, it is no easier to access the Xbox's hard drive than it is the Gamecube's Flash Memory card.

As for the comparison between the GC and the Xbox, my point was that Nintendo didn't do something right that the Xbox didn't, it's that the systems are largely similar, save for the inclusion of a hard drive, and that the Gamecube isn't more secure, it's just that the crackers don't give a rat's ass about it.

And as for the product coming from Microsoft making a difference, yes, it does. Maybe not widely, but with the Slashdot/Freshmeat crowd it sure as hell does.

And where the hell are you getting that I'm stereotyping crackers?

*boggle*

...and not to be rude, but is this even English?:


frankly you havent concluded properly that its not XBOX's reason that hackers are all targeting XBOX and hacking it.

Look: there's no reason for anyone to crack the Gamecube. Cheaters have the action replay available, plus the duping bugs. The Gamecube doesn't do anything but play Gamecube games. It can't browse the web, it can't be a file server, it can't be a streaming audio system, it can't be a media box, and it can't store data. The Xbox, on the other hand, can do all those things, and more. Thus, there are many projects aimed at modifying the Xbox.

See, and now I'm hitting a wall, because I don't know how to counter your point because I'm not even sure what the hell it is. That the Xbox has some design flaw that the Gamecube doesn't? I already dealt with that. What else it could be is beyond me.

The bottom line is this: the Xbox is no less secure than the Gamecube. In fact, it's so far proven moreso, being resilient against the duping bug, and having Microsoft actually take action against cheaters, while Sonic Team and those morons from Sega of America sit their with their thumbs up their butts.

Nite, you obviously have very little technical, practical, or first-hand knowledge of this subject. I would think that would be rather apparent to anyone who reads this. So, to that end, what exactly are your trying to accomplish? What's your point?



first of all.... rat's ass?? how would you know?? are you a hacker?? jesus.. you aren't listening. so far you haven't proved that hackers really do give a 'rat's ass' in hacking the gamecube or not.


It can't browse the web, it can't be a file server, it can't be a streaming audio system, it can't be a media box, and it can't store data. The Xbox, on the other hand, can do all those things, and more. Thus, there are many projects aimed at modifying the Xbox.

how does this relate to PSO?
right now we are discussing PSO and hacking related to it not other side projects.

put it this way.... is there a special flash reader that you think you can use to read GC memory cards?? not to my knowledge but what about... hard drives?? if u use the pc then i guess u probably know that you can take apart a harddrive and simply connect it to your computer and take a look inside..

what about a flash memory card??? how would you do that?? get a special reader and look whats inside?? oh opps i forgot... those flash card readers dont really exist or they are a rarity!

so what if cheaters can dupe on GC?? why did they stop there?? i mean why make lvl hacks and not make them for GC?? why hack XBOX more??? why the lvl hack so fast on PSOX and not GC?? maybe its easier?? maybe they couldnt hack GC cuz its harder??

[Broomop]

PSO X-BOX, DC, GC And PC are the same file system, now X-Box you can rip files onto HDD and stuff, and edit them meaning you can hack them, and PSOPC Guides can be used as guidelines on hacking it. And PSOGC you cant do this so its more secure, but if any link to pc can be established with it, it can be as bad as X-Box knowing a bit of ASM and finding the static address. Thus making action replay codes. Heres a website you should check to see about X-Box.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/psoxnop2k1/

[s3rial_one]

first of all.... rat's ass?? how would you know?? are you a hacker??

In the sense that you're using the term, yes, I am. I'm a network security specialist by trade.


so far you haven't proved that hackers really do give a 'rat's ass' in hacking the gamecube or not.

My point is that they don't, and if you're asking me to prove that they don't, why not let the complete and utter lack of evidence speak for itself?


how does this relate to PSO?
right now we are discussing PSO and hacking related to it not other side projects.

No, we're discussing how you seem to think everyone and their dog is hacking an Xbox because it has some massive security issue.


put it this way.... is there a special flash reader that you think you can use to read GC memory cards??

What, you mean something like this? (http://www.bestbuy.com/detail.asp?e=11095220&m=488&cat=511&scat=513)

Yeah, $40 at BestBuy for a multi-format reader... a real rarity.

...as if you couldn't just use the Gamecube itself.


so what if cheaters can dupe on GC?? why did they stop there?? i mean why make lvl hacks and not make them for GC?? why hack XBOX more???

This is the last time I'm going to try to explain this to you:

The Xbox has already been extensively cracked because of the very large appeal it carries for people interested in using it for things other than playing games. The vulnerabilities have already been discovered and exploited, mod chips created, and other operating systems booted.

To someone that wasn't to cheat in PSO, most of the legwork is already done, as opposed to the Gamecube, which doesn't carry that sort of appeal or support any other functions than playing games, and therefore, hasn't been cracked.

[Para]

ok lets say this...
xbox no doubt has been a bigger target... but doesnt this mean that GC PSO is safer to play since less hackers will target it?

[s3rial_one]

Not necessarily.

Microsoft, especially when compared to SonicTeam and SoA, have been far more pro-active with security. Microsoft actively tracks and disables cheaters' accounts, while SonicTeam's too busy finding ways to rehash PSO to bother doing anything about issues with their servers, like fixing the duping bug.

Most of the alarmists shrieking about Xbox being hacked haven't taken into account that while it may have been offline, Xbox Live has proven to be nearly immune to it.

[Para]

On 2003-04-28 17:48, s3rial_one wrote:
Not necessarily.

Microsoft, especially when compared to SonicTeam and SoA, have been far more pro-active with security. Microsoft actively tracks and disables cheaters' accounts, while SonicTeam's too busy finding ways to rehash PSO to bother doing anything about issues with their servers, like fixing the duping bug.

Most of the alarmists shrieking about Xbox being hacked haven't taken into account that while it may have been offline, Xbox Live has proven to be nearly immune to it.



psox is still very early its in life
we will see...

[s3rial_one]

There's a large motivational difeference, too. Microsoft relies on XBL to drive its console sales. If XBL is compromised in a major way, the appeal of the Xbox is drastically reduced. You're right in that it may one day happen, but don't expect Microsoft to just sit their and watch their pet project go down the crapper. They're investing $3 billion in the Xbox over the next few years, and I'd hazard quite a bit of that's going towards some pretty tight security for XBL.

[Danderdag]

Heck, aren't the mod checks and bannings even automated? (XBL servers doing a check for mods when you log on, and banning your serial/live account automatically if they're detected is what I mean).
This is a good test though, so far no other game has really needed to be protected in the way PSO does. PSO is like diablo 1, in that your offline game can completely affect the online game. Other XBL titles can be hacked offline, but it will have no effect online and since you can't screw with the game while you're connected, they're safe. The only games that really can have any sort of problems are games like PSO where the files transfer over between sessions and whatnot, and where the files are stored locally. A true MMORPG has nothing to worry about since nothing is stored clientside, whereas FPS's and whatnot don't have anything that would affect the game stored anywhere but on the disc (which you can't mess with while you're playing).

[ZoWnX]

Just to clarify something here. You do realize that the xbox uses encryption so involved that the only real way to crack it is brute force. And that would take 10 times more cycles (if i am quoting this correctly, sorry i remember reading the facts somewhere) as seti@home has done. I bieleve its somewhere in the 1.0 x 10^16, which means true cracking of the xbox is by all standard mathmatical logic, IMPOSSIBLE. Now since cracking it is impossible, all we have to worry about is modding it, and since even tho PSOX is not run server side, XBL is. Thus m$ can easily add to the search when you log into XBL, causing new mod chips to get banned.

Like previously posted, XBox came out to late and doesnt have a large enough user base to give up something that gives them an edge, that being... XBL


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ZoWnX on 2003-04-29 03:38 ]</font>

[Danderdag]

I have no idea what you just said...

[s3rial_one]

Xbox and its games use a 2048-bit RSA key, IIRC. That is an incredibly strong key; to brute force it, even with the muscle of some modern distributed networks, it'd take years. Impossible, not by a long shot, but it certainly is practical.

Now, that being said, there's a specific game out there that can be used to cause a buffer overflow error, which in turn allows a cracker to bypass the security.

[Jack]

Not just Agent Under Fire, there's other games that have the same save bug. AUF is the most widely publicised one.



On 2003-04-26 14:28, Danderdag wrote:
Now voice chat simply wouldn't work on dial-up of course.

Pshaw. Alien Front Online on the Dreamcast supported up to eight players, with voice chat. I'm not sure what the lag was like, but it can be done.

[Reanimated]

The bottom line really is that MS cares a lot about security on XBL and is constantly doing things to keep the cheaters/hackers/lamers out. Not only do they give the community the ability to police itself but they are extremely proactive in staying ahead of the network security game. You won't find Sonic Team or Nintendo putting this kind of effort into security... not even close.

XBL is their baby and they're not going to let some cockblow hackers come in and ruin their service, becuase that undermines their ability to tout it as a "service".

Morons like Malcom X learned that lesson the hard way. That's one little hacker that isn't a problem anymore.

[Danderdag]

Alien Front Online was nowhere near the quality of XBL voice if I recall, and it synced relatively little, like PSO. Again I haven't played in years, so this is going on memory.

[Para]

On 2003-04-28 18:38, s3rial_one wrote:
There's a large motivational difeference, too. Microsoft relies on XBL to drive its console sales. If XBL is compromised in a major way, the appeal of the Xbox is drastically reduced. You're right in that it may one day happen, but don't expect Microsoft to just sit their and watch their pet project go down the crapper. They're investing $3 billion in the Xbox over the next few years, and I'd hazard quite a bit of that's going towards some pretty tight security for XBL.


yea microsoft will definitely be tight on security issues... Nintendo needs to clean up its act and abomlish its petty rivalries... nintendo should support sega more to ensure a better relationship

[nivek-wolf]

alien front online had a window of chating for about
three secends you could only heir mufless most
the time or screems lol but psox you can heir peeps
in the back ground talking to the player[one time a friend was geting chowed out bye his girl friend]also
you can some times aspecily when your on ragul
with just the four of ya heir two peeps at once
only some times [please excuse my spelling and gramer]