Changes to Flomegion?

[Squal_FFVIII]

Did SEGA make some changes to this tech?

I seem to be doing less damage with it now that I have the max lvl cap bonuses?

For example, I used to do around 130K per hit on bal rodos, but now that I have more t-atk on my units, max lvl bonuses I do LESS damage?

Something's off here. I was only hitting around 126K or so. I've noticed this on bother bosses aswell.

Like a slight decrease in damage eventhough my character is stronger now.

Or did sega make adjustments to the enemies resistance? Mainly the bosses cuz mobs feel the same. All of my techs do more damage now which is great, but this one seem to be off.

[HentaiLolicon]

they sneakily boosted quite alot of R-def for maga, so that might be the case if they did that on other bosses too

[reaper527]

they sneakily boosted quite alot of R-def for maga, so that might be the case if they did that on other bosses too

so ultimately the main purpose of the cap boosts was just a sneaky way to make it possible for people to equip end game weapons on new characters that are still low level since the enemy def was raised at the same time as our atk?

[Squal_FFVIII]

Wow that sucks....

[KLMS1]

Maga gets tweaked every now and then because people figured out overly effective ways of killing it, that's why it nowadays has ice resist for ex. Hard to see why they'd bother with boss critters outside "raids".

[Bellion]

Are you using the exact same skill tree and boosts? Also, have you changed weapons by any chance? Something like Psycho Wand doesn't boost compound techs with its potential.
My Fomelgion definitely hits a little higher now and all that has changed for me was the titles update.

[Perfect Chaos]

What?! Psycho Wand's new potential doesn't work on Compound Techniques? Weird, since those are still techniques. The element technique-boosting potentials work on Compound Techs, so it's weird that Psycho Wand's new potential doesn't.

[LonelyGaruga]

Looks like it only works on techs that actually have PP costs.

悠久の加護はPPを消費するテクニックを使用した際に軽減と威力上昇が行われる模様で、そのためPPを消費 しない複合テクには威力上昇が反映されないようだ。

Eternal basket seemed to reduce the power increases when using the techniques that consume PP is made, it seems power increase is not reflected in the composite tech that does not consume Therefore PP.

Looks like tech weapons got shafted with the Photon Booster update!

[Bellion]

Yep, it specifically states Technics, not Compound Technics.
Meanwhile, elemental tech potentials apply to both elements as long as it has one of the elements in the mix.

[EvilMag]

Does the Ares pot boost compounds at least? Never really got a clear answer to that.

[Bellion]

Yeah, Ares does.

[Perfect Chaos]

Looks like tech weapons got shafted with the Photon Booster update!Indeed they did...


Yep, it specifically states Technics, not Compound Technics.
Meanwhile, elemental tech potentials apply to both elements as long as it has one of the elements in the mix.Well, the element boosting ones also states Techs specifically, as well, but they still work on Compound Techs, so it's not a valid argument by saying that Psycho Wand states Techs. Specific element Techs are just a subset of all Techs in general. The one that LonelyGaruga mentioned is valid, though, since the potential decreases PP consumption and also increases damage, but if it doesn't do that former, then it won't do the latter. That's the most understandable logic for why this is.. Not that I'm happy that it can be made logically sound... >_<


Does the Ares pot boost compounds at least? Never really got a clear answer to that.Ares just increase all damage in general, so it would just be stupid if it had an exception.

[Bellion]

Yeah, that is a much better way of putting it.
The elemental ones are just as long as it's an elemental technic.
The Psycho Wand just states vaguely technic in general.
With the Magical Piece it states compound elemental technic.
I've been pretty much thinking the elemental part is why, but if SEGA really intended on the potential checking if it uses PP or not first to determine the second part, then lol.

[Squal_FFVIII]

Well that explains it. I changed to Pwand for my new build. I sold off all of my elemental rods in favor of the pwand since the pwand is better. Or so I thought!

That's pretty shit that it doesn't boost the damage of the compound techs. Well that explains everything perfectly clear. The only reason i'm not seeing a huge decrease is because of my new units and the new max lvl 120 t-atk bonus.

I got my pwands thinking that all techs would get the bonus. Well in reality they all do just not the 3 compound ones.

[Perfect Chaos]

Even if it worked for Compound Techs, you shouldn't have sold your element Rods, anyway, unless you have a rainbow set of Psycho Wands. Off-element Psycho Wand will still be significantly weaker than an on-element element-boosting Rod.

[TaigaUC]

Well, just an example of how we have to be on our toes with how the game mechanics actually work.
Thanks for the heads up.

Maybe they'll fix it later. Who knows, maybe the coders just selected affected Techs from a list and forgot to include Compound Techs.

Copy-pasted relevant discussion from the Psycho Wand JP wiki page:
[spoiler-box]
新潜在のテキストを読む限り複合テクに乗らなそうな気がするんですが、検証できた方いますか？夜桜の仕様と 同じならPP消費を軽減した際に威力をUPなのでPPを消費しない複合テクには乗らない気がして怖いのです が -- 2015-08-28 (金) 02:10:24 New

「テクニック使用時にPP消費量が減少する」「テクニック使用時に威力が上昇する」の２文をくっつけただけ で、「テクニック使用時にPP消費量が減少した場合だけ威力が上昇する」って意味じゃないと思うが。検証も しないで言うのもアレだけど。 -- 2015-08-28 (金) 05:59:08 New

どこだか忘れてしまったけど、夜桜の｢PP軽減対象でないと、威力増加しない｣的な情報は私もどこかで聞い た気もする。確かに将来限界駆動のような潜在がテク武器に来た場合、それも複合に適用されるなら複合が有利 になってしまうよね。 -- 2015-08-28 (金) 20:46:52 New

思い出した。夜桜JBのページだ。JBPAの派生に威力増加効果が乗らないことからそう判断されたみたいだ けど。でも複合に夜桜が乗ってるかどうかっていうのは情報は無い感じかな？ -- 枝1? 2015-08-28 (金) 21:00:52 New

PPを消費しないアクションに潜在乗らないからな。これは検証待ちだけど -- 2015-08-28 (金) 21:09:56 New

今さっき悠久Lv3サイコと死中Lv3ノチウハウを炎闇ツリーのTe58Fo60でフォメルギオンを両方非 弱点の同じエネミーにぶつけたんだけどサイコが21000にたいしてノチウハウが25000だったからのら ないっぽそう -- 2015-08-28 (金) 17:06:31 New

そうなると正直ノチウでよくね？ってなりそうだな... -- 2015-08-28 (金) 17:41:26 New

常に複合撃てるならノチウでいいんだろうな（（まがお -- 2015-08-28 (金) 18:39:19 New

法撃同値なんだしノチウでいいと言うよりどっちでもいい、じゃないかな？ -- 2015-08-28 (金) 18:47:01 New
ん？乗るぞ普通に -- 2015-08-28 (金) 19:50:45 New

とりまSS頼めるか　同敵クリダメで頼む -- 2015-08-28 (金) 20:06:07 New

クリ特化Te/Boでノチウとサイコ撃ち比べたらすぐだな。(サイコ高すぎて検証できない貧乏人) -- 2015-08-28 (金) 20:55:07 New

公式に問い合わせ殺到したら乗るか否かが仕様かどうかって公表されたりしないかなぁ？ -- 2015-08-29 (土) 00:58:40 New

遅くなりましたがもう１回悠久サイコとノチウハウを同条件でフォメルギオンをロドスにぶつけたら青ダメージ でこのようになりました　サイコ　ノチウハウ　ダメージの当ててる部位は同じです。(ノチウ終わった後に打 撃マグだったことに気付いたけどまあ関係ないよね) -- 子木主 2015-08-29 (土) 02:52:42 New

子木主さんのＳＳは信用に足るものと判断してＯＫかな？情報を元に追記しましたどうでしょうか？　検証あり がとう -- 2015-08-29 (土) 03:04:30 New

複合ってテク扱いじゃないのか・・・要望送れば修正されるかな -- 2015-08-29 (土) 04:24:56 New

乗ってなさそうね　検証ありがとう -- 2015-08-29 (土) 05:39:44 New

宵白鳳の潜在　月白舞花で複合テクを試してみたがこちらも潜在が乗ってなかった。結晶潜在は、○属性テクニ ックの～という記述で複合テクニックの威力が上昇しているため、悠久の加護も月白舞花と同様にPP消費がキ ーになってると思われる。 --
[/spoiler-box]

[Maenara]

Or maybe Compound Techniques are literally a different thing than Techniques, as indicated by the facts that they are in their own tab in multiple areas and, just because a given class can cast Techniques, it doesn't enable them to cast Compound Techniques, so when something specifically increases the power of Techniques, it logically increases the power of Techniques and not something else.

[Squal_FFVIII]

Even if it worked for Compound Techs, you shouldn't have sold your element Rods, anyway, unless you have a rainbow set of Psycho Wands. Off-element Psycho Wand will still be significantly weaker than an on-element element-boosting Rod.

I have a rainbow set. Seriously you can't blame me for selling the elemental rods. The Pwand has like 100 more t-atk than the basic 11* fire rod. That more than makes up for the lost in 1% from the fire rod. With the new potential the Psycho Wand does more damage and saves PP.

There's no competition.

But of course I had no clue that it didn't power up the compound techs. I figured as much as everyone else that the the 15% was added to all techs seeing as the compound techs are also TECHS. This is pretty stupid. I hope they fix it.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, but I mean, it's possible that when they coded the potential, they didn't consider Compound Techs because they're literally a different thing, in a different place, or with different references.

Who knows whether that was intended or not?
We'll have to wait and see if they officially recognize it as a bug.

[Maenara]

Yeah, but I mean, it's possible that when they coded the potential, they didn't consider Compound Techs because they're literally a different thing, in a different place, or with different references.

Who knows whether that was intended or not?
We'll have to wait and see if they officially recognize it as a bug.

Depends on how the potential is worded. Does it say it increases Technique Damage? Or does it say it increases Damage of Techniques? Compound Techniques inflict Technique damage, yes, but Dead Approach inflicts striking damage, that doesn't make it a striking PA. It's all technical bibble-babble in the same way that, technically, a Talis normal attack is the only thing in the entire game that inflicts T-Atk damage, as opposed to Technique damage, two different things as far as the game is concerned.

[Perfect Chaos]

Or maybe Compound Techniques are literally a different thing than Techniques, as indicated by the facts that they are in their own tab in multiple areas and, just because a given class can cast Techniques, it doesn't enable them to cast Compound Techniques, so when something specifically increases the power of Techniques, it logically increases the power of Techniques and not something else.We've gone over this and how the element potentials, although also mentioning Techs, also works on the Compound Tech involving their respective element. Not to mention how skills like element masteries and Tech Charge Advance work on Compound Techs as well.


I have a rainbow set. Seriously you can't blame me for selling the elemental rods. The Pwand has like 100 more t-atk than the basic 11* fire rod. That more than makes up for the lost in 1% from the fire rod. With the new potential the Psycho Wand does more damage and saves PP.

There's no competition.

But of course I had no clue that it didn't power up the compound techs. I figured as much as everyone else that the the 15% was added to all techs seeing as the compound techs are also TECHS. This is pretty stupid. I hope they fix it.You completely misunderstood my statement. As long as you have a rainbow set of Psycho Wands, then that's logical to sell your old rainbow set beforehand. I'm just saying that if you didn't, and only had one Psycho Wand, then off-element Psycho Wand will be much weaker than on-element element-boosting Rod for the other elements. But since you do have a rainbow set of Psycho Wand, this doesn't apply to you.

[Maenara]

We've gone over this and how the element potentials, although also mentioning Techs, also works on the Compound Tech involving their respective element. Not to mention how skills like element masteries and Tech Charge Advance work on Compound Techs as well.

That's because they're increasing Technique Damage of a certain element, rather than damage of techniques of a certain element.

As for Tech Charge Advance, I wasn't aware it qualified for that.

[Perfect Chaos]

So your argument is implying that "damage of techniques" is not considered "Technique Damage"... Okay...

[LonelyGaruga]

The wording used is exactly the same as the wording used for the two Yozakura potentials, just without the mention of PAs. Psycho Wand's potential is working exactly as intended.

Also, talis normals count as striking attacks actually.

[Maenara]

So your argument is implying that "damage of techniques" is not considered "Technique Damage"... Okay...

Nazan could inflict striking damage and still be considered a Technique because it's a Technique.

[Squal_FFVIII]

Whats the wording on Psycho Wand. I don't speak Japanese so I don't know. I just knew that it made techs stronger by 15%.

[LonelyGaruga]

Psycho Wand's potential reads as テクニック使用時にPP消費量が15%減少し、威力が15%上昇する。
Lunar Deity, for comparison, reads 光属性テクニックのダメージが16%上昇する。

The former reads "When using a technique, PP consumption is reduced by 15%, power is increased by 15%"
The latter reads "light element technique damage is increased by 16%"

Well actually it reads "technic" but I'm guessing that technique was a localization thing.

[Perfect Chaos]

Also, talis normals count as striking attacks actually.But those normals aren't techniques, so it's not a "damage of techniques". Nor would it be Technique Damage due to what you just said.


Nazan could inflict striking damage and still be considered a Technique because it's a Technique.But does it inflict Striking Damage?

And you're also saying that those potentials increase Technique Damage, but the Japanese wording says it increases "the damage of X-Element Techniques", so technically it's the latter or your two statements. But either way, I feel that the two are the same thing.

EDIT: Ninja'ed
But okay, I guess that does make sense for the wording of Psycho Wand. I just never took a close look at its potential's wording until now. But my argument against Maenara's still stands.

[LonelyGaruga]

For the record I actually agree with you. For example, Nazan cannot qualify as a technique if it inflicts striking damage because it cannot be a technique if it inflicts striking damage. The fact that it inflicts wind element technique damage is the very reason Wind Mastery works for it. If it inflicted striking damage, it would be incompatible with Wind Mastery, its related potentials, and every single skill that applies to technique damage. It would still be a technique for conditionals such as the Yozakura series or Psycho Wand's potential though.

Basically, what's going on with Yozakura/Psycho Wand's potential is that they check to see if a move is a PA/tech, and if it is, then it applies the potential bonus. For this conditional, composites do not qualify as techs, because they do not function the same way that PAs/techs do. It's somewhat similar to how Attack Advance does not apply to shift actions or wand's Step Attack/Wand Gear.

Easier way to put it: Composites are not techs, but they do inflict tech damage.

[Perfect Chaos]

This argument is more complicated than it's worth, especially when nothing will come of it, since no matter why Psycho Wand's potential doesn't work on Compound Techs, it's still stupid... LOL

[TaigaUC]

So, "using a Tech" is different from "Tech damage".

[Qualia]

Doesn't Julius Nifta use tech damage? Or are PBs totally different?

[KLMS1]

PBs *scale off* particular damage types, but Hell if I know what they actually count as.

[Perfect Chaos]

Using "particular damage types" is not the right word for it. "Particular attack stats" would be more accurate.

[KLMS1]

Point.

[Qualia]

Honestly surprised there aren't any PB enhancing potentials. PB crafting for Episode 4?

[KLMS1]

PBs are somewhat niche AFAIK. Certainly not available often enough to be relied on.

[Kondibon]

I think anything that boosts all your damage boosts PBs as well. I'm pretty sure stances do, so I don't see why a general damage latent wouldn't work.

That said, the whole problem with clarity for damage types vs stat scaling has made talking about this kind of stuff really complicated.


PBs are somewhat niche AFAIK. Certainly not available often enough to be relied on.They're useful in AQs :wacko:

[KLMS1]

Never said they weren't useful, just kinda... not really a staple, y'know.

On another note I find PSO2 to be positively crystal-clear when it comes to terminology and stuff interacting - but that's probably because I'm used to the bewildering, absurdly poorly worded and only too often plain bugged muddle that is Neverwinter... :wacko:

[Kondibon]

Never said they weren't useful, just kinda... not really a staple, y'know.
Julius Nifta and Ketos Proi are amazing at what they do. I agree that the others probably aren't used for much though.



On another note I find PSO2 to be positively crystal-clear when it comes to terminology and stuff interacting - but that's probably because I'm used to the bewildering, absurdly poorly worded and only too often plain bugged muddle that is Neverwinter... :wacko:Nah, I get what you mean. As soon as a noticed it was even possible it was really obvious to me... It's just not spelled out anywhere, and the only reason I caught it was because I had also seen the concept used in other games (guns in mabi use your int and str stats but deal ranged damage for example :wacko: ).

[KLMS1]

Julius Nifta and Ketos Proi are amazing at what they do. I agree that the others probably aren't used for much though.

It's not like you can't find an use for most PBs (even if they're not necessarily terribly effective), the issue is more having them available when they might be useful. :/

[Kondibon]

It's not like you can't find an use for most PBs (even if they're not necessarily terribly effective), the issue is more having them available when they might be useful. :/Yeah, I wish they charged like Compound techs so it would be possible to use them more than once per boss fight, or during boss only EQs. Seeing PBs in Luther or Magatsu just means people got hit too much. >_>

[LonelyGaruga]

So, "using a Tech" is different from "Tech damage".

Yes. In this case, "tech" and "composite tech" are two different types of attack, like with normal attacks, Photon Arts, and skills that inflict damage (among other additional categories). A sword normal and a sword PA is two separate types of attack, but they both have the same exact properties as far as damage types go. They just qualify for different skills and potentials.

[TaigaUC]

I know, I was just elaborating on the difference.
Well, up to SEGA if they want to keep it that way or whatever.
Either way, I'm not going to bother regrinding again.
If I wait long enough, 14 stars and 15 stars will rear their ugly heads.

[emanresuj]

if i may;

i think compound techniques should benefit from psycho wand's potential. granted, it may be my misinterpretation of the potential, but i do not think the potential's mentioning of pp should preclude it's availabilty to compound techinques. that is to say, 15% of zero pp cost remains zero cost.

more specifically, compound techniques, unlike dual blades gear or wand gear with lovers active (both of which can be charged without pp expenditure), are in fact entirely pp dependent insofar as, if i understand correctly, compound techniques cannot be "charged" by any other means but pp expenditure. in other words, pp must be spent in the form of an initial technique (e.g., gi megid). in turn, a portion of that pp in the form of a quantifiable fraction (1/25th?) of a specified amount of damage is stored as the potential energy waiting to be released by a compound tech. hmmm, i think it's kinda like piezoelectricity, but with photonsssss! zandion!

in any case (and based on my admittedly poor understanding of all this as a budding mini-fo), i think a compound technique can be defined as a pp-dependent (correlative though indirect, it cannot be charged and used in the absence of any pp expenditure on the player's part), element based (compound techniques benefit from elemental mastery), technique (damage scales by technique attack and cannot head shot) optional, but non-spammable attack which can be launched from sub palette. in those terms i feel compound techniques should benefit from my precious boosters. as an aside, thanks to zieg, i managed 120k++ miles you guys! relatively speaking, i know that is not much, but i am proud nonetheless. also, i hope sega adds more zieg and 100%+ boost days; cm requirements are all over the place.

with respect to the yozakura potential, i could say, perhaps to the displeasure of some, that if i apply the same level of pedantry as above, perhaps the latter slices of shunka or even the button spam portion of holding current should not benefit from the potential, yet they do. i will not, however, because i do not feel like it.

i will mention the former on the next survey as well as express my intense frustration with daily craft expert day, if anyone is curious ; ;

[ArcaneTechs]

Next thing you know we have have compound damage increasing 13* series with a 9% dmg increase to all the weapon types. Just wait for it