PDA

View Full Version : Guide How to Dark Falz Double + Profound Darkness (rewrote the Double section)



TaigaUC
Oct 28, 2015, 06:55 AM
Guide is just about done now.

When the EQ is defeated, Arks Level increases. When it increases, everyone will get huge HP boost and PP regen, making the entire EQ somewhat trivial for later attempts.
Arks Level 2 occurs at 50%. Level 3 occurs at 100%.

Note that throughout this battle, Weak Bullet's multiplication value is nerfed to x1.2, and its affect will be blue instead of red.


Dark Falz Double:
Fairly straightforward boss fight. Travel PAs are very, very helpful here.
There is no loot gem after Double, so save your 250% for Darkness.
Dark Falz Double is vulnerable to Panic, which will cause a unique stun.


General Strategy:
Double always starts out with 3-5 stomps towards the multi. It will then randomly pick from one of the attacks listed below.
Two "leg" towers will light up with red hoops. These will have glowing red balls sticking out of them. Focus on attacking these.
The easiest way to figure out which towers to attack is to simply cycle lock-on.
Damage on these will seem low, because they don't have "weak point" multipliers.

Note that attacking the balls can be difficult because the towers move a lot.
The safest time to attack is when they tilt forwards on an angle. They will stay tilted for a lengthy amount of time.

Once two red balls are destroyed, the center tower will open its mouth and stick out its tongue with a glowing red ball on the end.
When two of Double's leg towers have been broken, it will always emit a whiny cry, which is a good notification that the tongue is revealed
The tongue will be revealed for a long amount of time. Deal as much damage to this as you can.
When you reach damage threshold, Double will retract the tongue and repeat the tower ball phase.
If Double's leg towers aren't broken in time and it reveals others, damage carries over when they re-open later.

After the tongue is retracted a second time, Double will always fly away and do two charges.
At this point you can completely avoid both charges by standing in the corner 4 tiles of the map.
After the second charge, Double will always try to stomp on players. Avoid the circles on the floor.

When Double returns, it will repeat the tower ball phase. When the tongue is retracted for a third time, Double will enter its final phase.
The final phase will reveal the tongue, and Double will usually spit out some cars from the central tower.
It will still use its spin attack and occasionally jump into the sky, or jump to the sides of the map.
Watch out for cars converging upon the entire multi.


Double's Attacks:
- Towers will wind up and then spin. Watch for the wind up and move away. Notice that the spin increases in range, meaning you need to stand further back than the initial range, or you will get hit.
- Towers will move backwards, and then swing forwards.
- Double may lift towers and then bring them down to stomp on players. Stomps can be avoided by avoiding the glowing red circles on the ground.
- The central tower may spit out toy cars and flying toy robots that circle around the map, leaving pools that inflict Panic.
- Toy cars will drive towards players. They can be dangerous if many players are gathered in a single spot.
- Toy robots always follow the red circle trails. Simply don't stand on the red circles.
- Double will hop a short distance away. It will then hop further away and line up in a row, shoot a set of lasers from each tower, then split up again. This tends to be over very quickly.
- Double will hop a medium distance away (usually towards the side of the map). It will then line up on the side of the map and fire two sets of walls at the players. You can step dash through them.
- These walls have a gate to run through, but the easiest way is to hug Double as soon as the towers line up.
- Double's tower legs will tilt forward, and then rotate slowly. There are always toy robots and cars during this.
- Double's energy attacks (eg. the pools, the lasers) can inflict panic. If you get panicked, you can still use lock-on and travel PAs to get to targets quickly.


Class Strategy:
- Casters should stay in the center of the towers, for best range positioning.
- Il Barta is the Tech of choice for damage here. Use Barantsion when it's up, but make sure you won't get interrupted. If you think the ball will retract in mid-cast, save it for later.
- If you have Techer's Super Treatment skill, you can intentionally stand in the red pools to get debuffed with Panic, and then Anti yourself for faster PP regeneration.
- Massive Hunter can be useful for preventing interruptions, particularly when there are lots of cars/robots flying about, or during the final phase.



Profound Darkness:
Profound Darkness is also reportedly vulnerable to Panic, which will cause a unique stun.
Note that some of Profound Darkness' attacks may inflict Bind debuff (golden electrical effect). You won't be able to move, but can still attack.
Profound Darkness is considered a DA and not a regular Darker, thus Ultimate Buster works on it.

Phase 1:
Darkness will fly around from one side of the map to another. When it's within range, it'll reveal one attackable section.
These can be broken, and Darkness will rotate itself to reveal different sections.
Breaking three of these sections will cause Darkness to reveal its core, so prioritize unbroken parts if you can.

After enough damage is done, it will simultaneously reveal two attackable sections instead.
With each retreat and return, these sections individually change shape into different attacks.
Watch for the shape to know what kind of attack it will be.

Sometimes, walls will spawn ala Mining Base: Despair. Destroy these as soon as possible.
WB applied to the wall seems to be the full version (ie. the effect is red instead of blue).

Section types/attacks:
- Claw-like hole. Will periodically open to detonate an AOE explosion attack. Sometimes extends to strike the multi? Can suck people up before using the explosion.
- Two hooks. These will extend and slam around the map. They won't hit you if you're hugging Darkness.
- A-shaped with crab-like red pincers. This will extend, grabbing multiple players and slamming them. Just dodge it when it comes out.
- A whitish eyeball shield. This shoots energy spheres that seem to home-in on players, as well as shooting mini lasers.

In addition to the above, Profound Darkness also has these attacks:
- Darkness will fly near the map, and charges the long tail-like section of its body before swiping across the entire map. This attack can come from either the left or right. Watch for the glowing tail.
- Darkness will fly above the map and then drill downwards. You can hit the body very briefly as it retracts from this attack.
- Darkness will fly far away, pause, collect glowing energy into its "petals" and then charge through the multi. You can see this coming and dodge it.
- Darkness will fly far off into the distance and circle the map, knocking asteroids into the map ala Dark Falz Elder. These will be marked by red circles on the floor. Avoid these circles to be safe.
- Darkness will seemingly drop off the map and then charge straight down through the multi from above.
- Darkness will fly above the map and shoot pillars of energy down onto the floor.

After dealing significant amounts of damage, Darkness will show its huge glowing white core for about 7 seconds.


Phase 2:
After enough damage is dealt, the background will turn white and Darkness' petal-like extensions will turn black-red.
Many lightning whirlwinds will spawn around the map. Avoid these. Walls may still randomly spawn.

Darkness will continue to use the same attacks as Phase 1.
When Darkness moves close to the map, it will either reveal three attackable sections, or two sections on the left/right and a glowing white ball in the center.
These sections will use the same attacks as part 1. If you see the glowing white ball, it will shoot a huge laser cannon. But don't worry, as it won't do much damage.
Again, breaking three of these sections will cause Darkness to reveal its core, so prioritize unbroken parts if you can.

Simply keep attacking the two attackable sections.
Note that when the white ball is in the center, Darkness will hover left and right, making the sections move out of range of melee.
Melee may have to switch between the two targets.

After dealing significant amounts of damage, Darkness will again show its huge glowing white core for about 7 seconds.


Phase 3:
Darkness will sprout a burly winged gold-armored man with a tinny high-pitched voice that tells the multi they cannot escape and will die.
Sometimes, Darkness will change to this form without the cutscene and open with an attack, so be warned.

Attackable points:
Face (primary weak point), hands/arms, chest.

Attacks:
- Swings one arm after another, sometimes 2-4 times with varied timing (saying "shi ne", "nigasan"), and then finishes with a large map-wide double fist slam attack (saying "ochiro").
- Uses one arm to grip the floor, whilst the other arm will shoot lasers and stuff at the multi. Clinging to the side of the map next to the arm seems to be a somewhat safe spot, although you will still get hit.
- Uses both palms to create a vortex to suck players in, which detonates into huge explosions that should be avoided.

Darkness will spawn about 15-20 flying balls. These will fly around the map, shooting lasers and such.
As soon as these are destroyed, he will be stunned and faceplant into the floor, allowing players to attack his face for about 8 seconds.


Phase 4:
Darkness will fly away and charge a red Spirit Ball. The player will then be teleported away to fight Persona alone.
Persona has various attacks, and some of them stun, so be ready to shake out ASAP.

Attacks/Abilities:
- Over End. Note that it won't always end in the overhead slash, and may have a follow up horizontal slash after.
- Satellite Cannon-ish geysers, sometimes multiple in a row.
- Throws a huge ball of energy, sometimes multiple in a row.
- Will dash through the player, removing lock on.

The multi has roughly 30 seconds to defeat Persona.
Damage and Weak Bullet to Persona are shared throughout the multi. Chain Trigger is shared between party members.
If the multi does not defeat Persona in time, Persona will use a ~999999 damage attack (may start with Persona saying "nigasan").
This may be dodgable, or survivable via Never Give Up or Photon Blast.


Phase 5:
Once Persona is or isn't defeated, the multi will all be teleported back to Darkness.
If you successfully dealt enough damage to Persona, Darkness will have a headache and crash into the ship.
This causes him to faceplant and open his mouth, allowing the multi to deal massive damage for roughly 11 seconds.

If Persona was not defeated in time, Darkness will keep his chin to the floor and arms to the side of the map.
He will then use AOE attacks repeatedly, including scrolling lasers and other explosions, while moving his face in and out of attack range.
Simply hug his face and most of the attacks will likely miss. Keep attacking his face.
When enough damage is dealt, he will faceplant and open his mouth similar to had Persona been defeated.

Now is a good time to use 250% rare drop.


Unsorted points:
- When PD's breakable parts are panicked, they will be unable to attack
- PD's double hook breakable part can shoot a slicing projectile
- When there are multiple crab pincers on both sides, they can grab people on the opposite side of the map, and they can also grab people who've just been grabbed (double slam)
- PD can also rain small energy balls, which are preceded by small circles on the ground
- You can still get hit by rocks hitting the floor even if you are not standing in the red circles. To avoid this, you must avoid standing parallel to PD's flight (ie. stand at a side angle to the circles).
- Damage to PD's breakable parts carry over to the next phase
- In general, remember the shape of PD's breakable parts, and keep attacking the ones you feel have taken most damage, so as to cause breaks
- Sometimes PD glitches and flies through the floor, this can be a huge pain if it's revealing its core and positions itself opposite everyone
- PD must reach certain damage threshold or it won't change forms/summon Persona.
- PD can only summon Persona after Xiao's notice and after certain points, such as after it's been stunned, or after it lifts its hand from the floor
- PD will always do the suck-in energy pillars on second spawning of small eyeballs
- PD has a rare attack where it will fly above the multi and shoot both the breakable parts and lasers down at the multi from above.



The End:

Players end up in a pretty flower field with invisible walls. Enjoy your phat loots.

Notable drops:
- Mothership-themed stuff (the black and teal 11 stars).
- Nox-themed stuff
- Toy-themed weapons nobody cares about
- Granfol (the crit latent 11 star Dual Blades that drop from rare Bal Lodos)
- Dio prefix 10 star stuff
- Traitor Cage (the melee latent wand)
- Invade 13 stars (latent seems to be +15-+25% crit)
- Invade 11 star unit set (Rear+Arm 2 piece set bonus, Leg+Invade Weapon 2 piece set bonus)
- Austere 13 stars (latent seems to be +damage +pp regen)

Total of roughly 30 cubes with a +250% rare drop ticket.


Big thanks to everyone contributing information in this thread and the one in general forum.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 28, 2015, 07:17 AM
Hit it really hard.

Avoid the BWOAHSHIT.

Collect lewts which may or may not be 'phat'.

Maenara
Oct 28, 2015, 07:23 AM
It's [Profound Darkness], not Dark Falz Abyss.

Rakurai
Oct 28, 2015, 07:23 AM
Does Double inflict any status effects that can be abused for Super Treatment?

I know those homing spheres PD launches inflict Bind for that purpose.

TaigaUC
Oct 28, 2015, 07:24 AM
Okay.

A JP friend GJ'd me yesterday saying " 深淵 (Abyss) tomorrow", so I thought it was Abyss.

The PD thing is absolutely confirmed? Maybe I got the kanji wrong.

Edit: Oh, I see. Shin'en naru yami = Profound Darkness.
And Profound Darkness isn't a Dark Falz.

Nyansan
Oct 28, 2015, 07:26 AM
Disney castle reject is EZ with TD/DB. Gap closers are your friend since he likes to hide his 'balls'. kek
Got a friend saying that he changes weaknesses to weapons, much as Anga changes resists.

wefwq
Oct 28, 2015, 07:27 AM
It seems that on Persona fight segment, that if someone shot a weak bullet, it'll shared with everybody else.


Total of roughly 30 cubes with just a +250%.
Well RIP, i only get like 11 cubes.

TaigaUC
Oct 28, 2015, 07:29 AM
Yeah, I noticed the WB thing was shared. I'd better write that.

Sora3100
Oct 28, 2015, 07:31 AM
If WB is shared, can I assume that if I'm in a party chain is shared too?

Renvalt
Oct 28, 2015, 07:33 AM
Something to note about the solo portion - if you take too long, Persona will use an attack that will insta-kill you. The video I checked showed that it hits for just one point shy of a million damage. (I myself killed it before its ZA WARUDO attack would've killed me, but my party members weren't so fortunate).

So this particular portion of the fight is a self-DPS check. If you can't kill it in time, it will wipe the floor with you.

final_attack
Oct 28, 2015, 07:36 AM
Would have to see if Chain is shared or not ...... I was in a mpa with 1 other Gu-main ...... As far as I know, it only on cooldown once I activated it.

TaigaUC
Oct 28, 2015, 07:36 AM
Maybe I was lagging then.

I hit Persona a few times and then after about 5-10 seconds of me running around, it suddenly died by itself.

Azure Falcon
Oct 28, 2015, 07:46 AM
Something to note about the solo portion - if you take too long, Persona will use an attack that will insta-kill you. The video I checked showed that it hits for just one point shy of a million damage. (I myself killed it before its ZA WARUDO attack would've killed me, but my party members weren't so fortunate).

So this particular portion of the fight is a self-DPS check. If you can't kill it in time, it will wipe the floor with you.

I don't feel that it is as simple as a solo DPS during that part, there is no way on earth I could possibly have passed that DPS check running a full support Te/Bo, yet I never saw the attack. There must be some mechanic involving how much damage the party deals as a whole, or something we don't know about how skills affect other players during that part. I was abusing Zanverse fairly heavily to boost my pitiful damage output while Weak Bullet was in play and our entire party survived Persona.

Ryziou
Oct 28, 2015, 07:46 AM
Can confirm WB is definitely shared across the MPA on Persona. You also want to stick close to Double, it's way easier to stick close to him during all his phases than to run away due to his wall attack. Double also hits you with Panic that stays on for a long time, it'll keep switching directions every 30 seconds or 1 minute so it's best to clear it fast with someone who can Anti or just use a Sol Atomizer.


It's most likely based on your MPA's total damage and not a self damage check. My friend is a full healer and he didn't die so I'm 99.99% sure it's an MPA damage check.


I also got 30 cubes with 350%

Yurixeva
Oct 28, 2015, 07:47 AM
During double fight, those towers with exposed balls also light up so it is easy to tell which tower to aim for.

TaigaUC
Oct 28, 2015, 08:03 AM
Thanks for the information. Added to the guide.

Rakurai
Oct 28, 2015, 09:25 AM
Those pools that the exploding cars leave behind are what inflicts Panic.

They barely do any damage at all, so they're an easy way to trigger Super Treatment.

Flaoc
Oct 28, 2015, 09:59 AM
apparently austere itself drops

TaigaUC
Oct 28, 2015, 10:42 AM
Heavily updated the guide. Pretty sure I got nearly everything now.

Poyonche
Oct 28, 2015, 11:13 AM
During Phase 2, Profound Darkness can go far away then suddenly tackle all the MPA

LonelyGaruga
Oct 28, 2015, 11:55 AM
After dealing significant amounts of damage, Darkness will show its huge glowing white butt for about 7 seconds.

Just a nitpick, the exposed weak point is actually its face (well, more or less, that's where the upper torso emerges in phase 3). To add to the above post, PD can perform the same dashing attack in phase 1 as well.

Oh yeah, and Weak Bullet is a 1.2x effect for both Double and PD according to swiki.


Notable drops:
- Rindbloom-themed stuff (the black and teal 11 stars).
- Nox Cadina (possibly more)
- The crit latent 11 star Dual Blades that drop from rare Bal Lodos
- Toy themed weapons nobody cares about
- Invade 13 stars
- Austere 13 stars?

Going off swiki and personal findings

The black/teal 11*s are Mothership themed. Lindblum's series are 12*s and a different aesthetic.
11/17 of Nox weapons confirmed so far, presumably the full series does drop.
Many miscellaneous 11*s like Bloody Nails, blue Magatama WL, and Traitor series.
Austere series is confirmed.

Shinamori
Oct 28, 2015, 05:19 PM
Nice that Austere drope.

Selphea
Oct 28, 2015, 06:03 PM
JOh yeah, and Weak Bullet is a 1.2x effect for both Double and PD according to swiki.

That's how much it should have been all along!

Sora3100
Oct 28, 2015, 09:17 PM
Ok, so apparently chain is also shared during the 1v1 part.

Konquer
Oct 28, 2015, 10:47 PM
sorry, where does it say that invade and austere drops from PD?

Bellion
Oct 28, 2015, 10:50 PM
Taken from another thread, that shows the quest record drops of invade and aus:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/n6CucNM.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Konquer
Oct 28, 2015, 11:02 PM
demn, thats nice. so we dont have to actually collect the stuff and just use rdr and pray to rng

CrossOmega
Oct 29, 2015, 01:02 AM
During Persona fight, your mpa have approximately 35seconds bfore he gives you the middle finger. On a separate note, SEGA really overdid it with the ARKs buff thing. It literally turned PD from a horror story that would leave you begging for your life to a soft toy that would merely graze you at ARKs level 3.

Rakurai
Oct 29, 2015, 03:08 AM
I didn't realize Double is vulnerable to Panic. Guess I'll have to spam Il Grants instead of Il Barta next time.

On a side note, does it have a headshot weak spot? I'd assume you'd have to hit that smaller face above the eyes, because its entire head being vulnerable would be kind of silly.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 29, 2015, 05:12 AM
V V V
V V V
V V V


That's how much it should have been all along!

^ ^ ^
^ ^ ^
^ ^ ^

TaigaUC
Oct 29, 2015, 08:23 AM
Updated the guide. Thanks for all the info.

Flaoc
Oct 29, 2015, 08:31 AM
That's how much it should have been all along!

yes please

final_attack
Oct 29, 2015, 09:36 AM
ChainFinish is Limited? o-o I did CT on phase 2 (Core) ..... should've been 6-7 hits of SatAim on hit for ChainFinish.

But only 3 damage shown (only 3 absurd life-steal from Megiverse) o-o

It's like .....

Hit - block (no damage) - Hit - block (no damage) - Hit - block (no damage) for 3 SatAim (ChainFinish).
Looking at my recording again ... doesn't seems to be a lag. Since hits after ChainFinish is done, SatAim did 2 hits like usual o-o

[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJqqhreM3ks[/SPOILER-BOX]

Head ChainFinish - 5 hit window only?

[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgV2BOsVy8k[/SPOILER-BOX]

Rakurai
Oct 29, 2015, 09:41 AM
After actually trying it, it's really not worth using panic on Double.

The stun duration is only about two seconds, and their recovery animation is really short. It doesn't happen very often, either. Better off just using Il Barta or Ra Grants.

TaigaUC
Oct 29, 2015, 09:51 AM
Was in two awful groups. One took 20 minutes and another 14 minutes.
But thanks to that, noticed a few more rarely seen attacks.
Updated the guide with that info. Clarified some stuff as well.

Noticed Persona has the ability to remove lock-on by dashing through the player.

Poyonche
Oct 29, 2015, 10:30 AM
I noticed the Despair Walls like can also appear during White Phase.

TaigaUC
Oct 29, 2015, 10:34 AM
White phase as in, Darkness is still white? Not background white?

Will make a note of it, thanks.

Poyonche
Oct 29, 2015, 10:44 AM
Oh uh yes, White petals

Kondibon
Oct 30, 2015, 09:57 AM
I dunno if it's been mentioned yet, but, since Double always goes through the center in both directions during the rocket attack, it's easier to go to the corners of the room as soon as you see it start to take off, than to wait for the lights to avoid it.

Arkanoid
Oct 30, 2015, 09:59 AM
Any info on how Brave/Wise stance works in these battles? Does the position on the platform affect this like in the Elder fight?

TaigaUC
Oct 30, 2015, 11:41 PM
Updated the guide.

I haven't noticed anything strange when using only Brave stance.

Rakurai
Nov 1, 2015, 08:01 PM
Does Double only start spitting boats at you in that spam mode they enter at low HP?

I've never actually seen the boat, but someone far away got OHKO'd by something while Double was floating high in the air and no other recognizable attacks were happening, so I'm assuming that's what it was.

Maenara
Nov 1, 2015, 08:36 PM
By the way, Bind status prevents you from being able to Step Dash. Noticed in your guide that it says you can step dash while afflicted with Bind, which isn't true.

Achelousaurus
Nov 6, 2015, 07:56 AM
Is there a way to keep df double from moving all the time?
Sometimes it doesnt move much and I can actually attack with melee and sometimes it moves nonstop and I have to run after it all the time.
Is that just ai rng? Or can you actually influence that?

TaigaUC
Nov 6, 2015, 11:29 AM
I don't think I've seen the "boat"?

First few PDs, I step dashed a bunch of times while bound, but last time it didn't work, so I am pretty confused.

I asked the Double question in the other thread, and consensus was it's RNG.

Achelousaurus
Nov 6, 2015, 07:23 PM
._.
Thanks. I guess it's Penetration Arrow for me then. For the 0.0000001% of austere katana drop I wanna go as braver but with katana I sometimes do like 500k dmg the entire fight and since the vulnerable part is often obscured by the legs I don't think much else is a sustainable option for braver.

milranduil
Nov 6, 2015, 07:31 PM
just guren from leg to leg and do banish kami arrow when he drops tongue.

AmanoMai
Nov 6, 2015, 07:56 PM
What are the most effective PAs a RaHu has on this EQ?

I normally on toy:
use sneakshot on leg, one point when it moves around
tongue: fully charged EA

Flower:
Charged or non-charged EA , depends on if it looks like i'm gonna get interrupted or not

big guy:
charged EA on flying bits
charged EA on head when down
non-charge EA on hand when it's down, because of homing lazer I don't have time to charge

persona:
parallel slider spam


asking for tips on more effective ways to do this

Z-0
Nov 6, 2015, 08:32 PM
You can Sat Cannon Persona.

Start charging as the humanoid backs away and you'll have it fully charged by the time Persona spawns. You don't lose any charges on that warp, so this also applies to holding techniques as well (and other various attacks).

Strobo Nights
Nov 6, 2015, 09:30 PM
Crafted Bullet Squall is TMG's best friend here. GB/DA for travel and Sat Aim when boss is stationary.

Spiral
Nov 8, 2015, 12:23 AM
You can Sat Cannon Persona.

Start charging as the humanoid backs away and you'll have it fully charged by the time Persona spawns. You don't lose any charges on that warp, so this also applies to holding techniques as well (and other various attacks).

Great tip, worked other way around too with charging while persona defeat/despawning wait time and firing across the stage upon return/humanoid headbutts stage.

Rakurai
Nov 8, 2015, 06:32 AM
Is PD really vulnerable to Panic? I've never seen it act unusually despite me only ever spamming Light techs on it.

Double's animation for the Panic stun is extremely obvious, though (Sprawls out on the ground with stars swirling over the head, and also makes a goofy dizzy sound effect).

TaigaUC
Nov 8, 2015, 10:28 AM
I don't recall seeing PD vulnerable to Panic either, but I've only tried it with Force twice.
Maybe it's only on the armored guy phase?

LonelyGaruga
Nov 8, 2015, 12:56 PM
No confirmation given on which phase, but swiki indicates it might be first phase. There doesn't seem to be a question that Panic does work, though.

There isn't really a point in trying to apply Panic in the first place though, just Ragrants spam.

Bellion
Nov 8, 2015, 01:50 PM
You can see the panic effect applied on the breakable parts, panic cannot be applied on the humanoid form nor the 1v1 part. When panic occurs PD does nothing but float around.

https://youtu.be/QpT2riD1a48?t=4m27s
Look closely to the 3rd part on the right.

Achelousaurus
Nov 20, 2015, 09:08 AM
Which stance do I use for Double?
I noticed a relatively small difference between brave and wise, does that mean both work?
Do different parts of Double require different stances?

And PD is just straight forward brave all the time? I tried to compare damage but it changed so fast I wasn't able to properly compare even one pa.

TaigaUC
Nov 20, 2015, 10:10 PM
I just use Brave.

Stuff I should add to the guide:
- Double always starts out with about 3 forward stomps
- Double always winds up before doing a spin
- As caster, you can stand in the center of Double to avoid the spin completely
- At the start, when Double's legs tilt slightly, I think this is when the legs will stop moving around
- Double always hops all towers a fair distance before going into the row laser or wall attack
- Double always does only one row laser, and always two wall attacks before resetting
- When two of Double's leg towers have been broken, it will always emit a whiny cry, which is a good notification that the tongue is revealed
- If Double's towers/legs aren't broken in time and it reveals others, damage carries over when they reopen later
- Double's cars and such follow the red tracks which always seem to be positioned to circle around where players would be standing when attacking either the legs or the center tongue
- When Double's cars are driving around the tracks, the tower legs usually slowly rotate
- Standing in the corner 4 tiles of the map will always avoid Double's charging attacks

- When PD's breakable parts are panicked, they will be unable to attack
- PD's double hook breakable part can shoot a slicing projectile
- When there are multiple crab pincers on both sides, they can grab people on the opposite side of the map, and they can also grab people who've just been grabbed (double slam)
- PD can also rain small energy balls, which are preceded by small circles on the ground
- You can still get hit by rocks hitting the floor even if you are not standing in the red circles
- Damage to PD's breakable parts carry over to the next phase
- In general, remember the shape of PD's breakable parts, and keep attacking the ones you feel have taken most damage, so as to cause breaks
- Sometimes PD glitches and flies through the floor, this can be a huge pain if it's revealing its core and positions itself opposite everyone
- PD must reach certain damage threshold or it won't change forms/summon Persona.
- PD can only summon Persona after Xiao's notice and after certain points, such as after it's been stunned, or after it lifts its hand from the floor
- PD will always do the suck-in energy pillars on second spawning of small eyeballs

Additional Double behavior (some repeats):
- At the start, stomps forward 3-5 times (may depend on multi positioning).
- After that, it will randomly pick from a variety of attacks, all of which have wind up motions, rise up before stomp motions, etc.
- If a leg moves backwards, it is going to thrust forwards.
- If the legs all rotate horizontally slightly as if winding up, it will spin. Note that the spin range increases, so you need to stand further away than the initial collision range.
- The safe time to attack the legs is when they "settle down" and tilt a 45 degree angle forwards. They will not move for a long while, but Double may spawn cars that get in your way.
- If all the legs seem to hop a short distance away, they will always go into a row attack after.
- Mid-map row will always be red lasers, which are so fast that melee won't have time to get a strike in before they reset to non-row positions.
- Side-map row will always be the walls. You can step dash through the walls if you time it right.
- Sometimes Double will start running away repeatedly for a long time just before legs are broken, and then switch the leg weak points because they didn't break in time.
- If the above happens, don't worry because the damage to each leg carries over (ie. faster break the next time they're revealed).
- If you get panicked, you can still use lock-on and travel PAs to get to targets quickly.
- Massive Hunter is really great for Double in general. I pop it at the start and before it dies, so that I won't get knocked away while attacking the last tongue.
- I think the red circle trails on the ground are for the flying fatso toys.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 20, 2015, 10:26 PM
Reading swiki, it seems to indicate that Brave/Wise follows the same principles as with the Dark Falz Elder fight, it's based on the stage and not the target. Which makes sense, since the latter half of the fight is a stationary target you cannot possibly get behind.

But it seems there's also conflicting reports...it's a little hard to tell what's accurate.

And for the debris attack where PD flies far away and sends debris flying, the debris flies at a diagonal angle, so watching where PD launches the debris from can help avoid the attack.

TaigaUC
Nov 20, 2015, 10:35 PM
Yeah I was thinking that was the key to avoiding the debris but I hadn't tried it yet.
I assume it's... follow the direction PD is attacking from, and stand to the side of the circles (ie. not directly parallel PD's flight).

Saffran
Nov 21, 2015, 07:36 AM
There's a WL solo PD run which shows that (at least for the humanoïd) that the part of the stage near him is subject to Brave and the part in the far end is subject to Wise. (like DF)

Achelousaurus
Nov 21, 2015, 09:24 AM
Thanks.
Also, I noticed the cars sometimes abandon the circles and come right at you. Probably depends on how much damage you did so far.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 21, 2015, 11:18 AM
Cars actually chase players, they don't intentionally drive in circles.

EDIT: These guides really need class-specific advice, general guidelines don't cut it. It's not very funny to see an MPA with two other Forces that think Namegid > Ilbarta on Double.

TaigaUC
Nov 21, 2015, 03:14 PM
Yeah, I've seen the cars running amok.
What are the dark red circle trails on the ground for then?

And I've thought about adding class specific stuff before.
Just lazy, I guess.

I think people who use a specific other Tech are going to keep doing it because:
- It's probably their main, ie. they're not specced otherwise
- They probably like that specific Tech and won't use others
- IF they aren't using the enemy's weak element Techs, then they've probably never thought of trying them out
- They probably don't know how Il Barta works, or don't like the small numbers

LonelyGaruga
Nov 21, 2015, 04:47 PM
One of Double's attacks is a sort of carousel of the bear/rabbit darkers, which face downwards and fire lasers from their cores. The trail indicates the course that they follow.

Anyway, Ilbarta is superior to Namegid no matter what the circumstance when it comes to Dark Falz Double so I'm not amused by bad player logic. The only positive thing that can be done about it is create sections of the guide that inform people how to play their class effectively, which is something that I would think is necessary for a quality guide. It's not like reading what you currently have for any of the guides is gonna make what's covered run smoothly, gotta go in-depth for people to be able to learn what they should do.

NoobSpectre
Nov 23, 2015, 04:08 AM
I do think that the dreaded neros are actually dropped from DF Double instead of Profound. But as Taiga advises to save it for profound, it might've not been proven. like maybe the profound twin falz which should've drop both falz drop at the end of the boss combo.

RNG messing up time aside. Maybe one person should try burning a 350% during double and finish PD before it expires, and check whether the neros drop increases or not.

Welp, just a suggestion.

HentaiLolicon
Nov 23, 2015, 04:30 AM
I do think that the dreaded neros are actually dropped from DF Double instead of Profound. But as Taiga advises to save it for profound, it might've not been proven. like maybe the profound twin falz which should've drop both falz drop at the end of the boss combo.

RNG messing up time aside. Maybe one person should try burning a 350% during double and finish PD before it expires, and check whether the neros drop increases or not.

Welp, just a suggestion.
I once used booster just before PD dies, and still got 2 neros, other times, I had boosters on for whole run yet still get 1 to 0 nero. A bit off topic, in last loser EQ, i got 3 nero, but in another one, i got none, both with 250, nero droprate is one fucking funky thing

AmanoMai
Nov 23, 2015, 04:34 AM
pretty sure drop rate applies before you break the crystal so the bosses are kind of irrelevant

Saffran
Nov 23, 2015, 05:22 AM
I've had a 350% time out during the result screen of DF and got a Lamda Jareido and *lots* of meseta. So as far as I am concerned, the only thing that matters is to have the rare boosts at the moment the crystal breaks. But maybe that was a specific DF EQ thing...

Shinamori
Nov 23, 2015, 05:32 AM
If I remember, they stated that the roll happens when the the enemy HP = 0.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 23, 2015, 07:05 AM
The check is on crystal break. I was told by a friend that if you're dead when Dark Falz Double dies, you don't get drops from them, but I'm pretty sure that's incorrect since not a single enemy works like that.

AmanoMai
Nov 23, 2015, 07:41 AM
on that note, about falz elder and loser

says if you do the arms phase on SH
then do phase 2 on XH

would that affect drop? do you have to do both on XH?

escarlata
Nov 23, 2015, 07:45 AM
Elder drop rate is unaffected by the arm kills, not number nor diff. You just need to do any difficulty once in order to do Elder.
Loser drop rate gets maxes out at 4 Doritos kills @ any difficulty.

AmanoMai
Nov 23, 2015, 08:51 AM
Elder drop rate is unaffected by the arm kills, not number nor diff. You just need to do any difficulty once in order to do Elder.
Loser drop rate gets maxes out at 4 Doritos kills @ any difficulty.

wait what
you need to kill 4 doritos to max out loser drop?
maybe that explains why i never got anything from that guy

TaigaUC
Nov 23, 2015, 12:11 PM
I should add that to the Eluther guide. Completely forgot.
Edit: Done.

My reliable trustworthy source of information Japanese friend told me this a few weeks ago:
Some people on the swiki started saying that rare drop boosts are calculated when the boss dies, not on crystal break.
So the JP friend did a bunch of testing and found that's BS. Drop boost is clearly reflected if you use boost tickets after boss death but before crystal break.

Also, this is from me: not being alive for a boss death means you get a lower rank. Not sure if that affects quality of loot drops (it does for Tower Defense).
But you will still get loot. It just might be crappier. Also, I don't think Neros drop exclusively from Double.
Something I noticed is that some specific rares have a random chance for either Double or Darkness soul, which kinda suggests that the loot is "shared".

TaigaUC
Dec 12, 2015, 10:20 PM
So yeah. I completely forgot about Super Treatment.
I normally only play as Fo/Te once in a few months, so I'm pretty rusty.

Will add it to the guide.

Edit: Rewrote the Double guide in general.

TaigaUC
Dec 16, 2015, 09:55 AM
Was in a run where PD summoned Persona and then died before Persona could do anything.
Anyone ever seen that?

final_attack
Dec 16, 2015, 10:34 AM
Pre-charge SatCannon ....... release on Spawn + WB? :o
In semi-organized runs I usually did, sometimes Persona didn't even attack.

Spawn - land - dead?

Edit : you can attack Persona the moment it's seen (still in the middle of lights, forming body).

LonelyGaruga
Dec 16, 2015, 01:12 PM
Was in a run where PD summoned Persona and then died before Persona could do anything.
Anyone ever seen that?

What, PD died? Probably a glitch. If Persona, that's what normally happens in an organized MPA. Persona only has 2m HP, so pugs can probably annihilate Persona instantly too if they were strong enough.

TaigaUC
Dec 16, 2015, 05:18 PM
Yeah, it was like... Persona spawned and then it skipped to the PD death cutscene.

Achelousaurus
Dec 16, 2015, 08:23 PM
here some things I noticed:

Often after the initial stomps, Double will move the leg with the hittable part forward but then retract it again half a second or a second later, and then again half a second to a second later it will slightly kick out again with this leg.
The small kick deals damage and in general this will screw up the range of most melee weapons.

Also, the best option to avoid Double's flyby attacks is getting used to the timing.
You will never have the time to reach the corners unless you are already really close.
You don't even have the time to search for Double if you lose sight of it.

Also, anyone with Super treatment should try to charge anti cause most likely a number of other people are also inflicted with panic and this way several people get a big damage boost. This counts for Double as well as PD. PD has this stun like status as well as wound status (or whatever it's called).

And seems like when Double gets inflicted with panic it can cancel out the phase where it exposes the tongue, even if you destroy 2 balls.

TaigaUC
Dec 16, 2015, 09:06 PM
I always make it to the corners, but then I'm usually either using TMG or Knuckles.
Yeah, I should add use Anti to cleanse other people during both battles. Forgot about that.

And yeah I think I have seen panic cancel out the tongue before.

Achelousaurus
Dec 21, 2015, 09:40 AM
I got a question about Ilbarta cause it's confusing the hell out of me.
Garuga recommended to use my tree with the most ice boost and spam Ilbarta with that, so I did.

But my results are not very impressive.
For light (fully boosted from tree) I got an Amaterasu at 1070 atk and for ice I got an Elder Rod at 963 atk (20% + 8%).

My average ragrants was 16-17k per tick while my average charged ilbarta was 9500, 12k on 4th and 14k on 7th hit.

Never saw any higher number with Ilbarta despite using it on almost the entire Double fight and counting my hits.

Or is Ilbarta the tech of choice cause it won't get blocked by Double's legs and has sustainable damage instead of patchy damage cause Ra/Ilgrants don#t hit that much?

final_attack
Dec 21, 2015, 09:46 AM
You sure other Fo didn't burst the 7th blast? Since 7th hit should be much higher that 4th~6th

As far as I remember, Il Barta's hits are shared between all Fo's on mpa o-o

jooozek
Dec 21, 2015, 10:09 AM
yeah, crest being shared by whole MPA is the whole gimmick of it

Achelousaurus
Dec 21, 2015, 10:22 AM
Yeah, I guess I never actually got a 7th and maybe not even a 4th hit.
Went to caves and got 27k on 4th and 112k on 7th on Vol.

So basically Ilbarta means everyone shares damage and lets hope the b1 guy with his +3 rod never gets the 7th hit.

milranduil
Dec 21, 2015, 11:23 AM
Yeah, I guess I never actually got a 7th and maybe not even a 4th hit.
Went to caves and got 27k on 4th and 112k on 7th on Vol.

So basically Ilbarta means everyone shares damage and lets hope the b1 guy with his +3 rod never gets the 7th hit.

Something is seriously wrong with your damage if you're doing 27k 4th and 112k 7th. You should be shooting for at least 27k on 1st meaning 54k 4th and ~215k 7th.

Loveless62
Dec 21, 2015, 12:25 PM
A note about the wall attack: it cannot be blocked, at least not with katana. I have not had a chance to try blocking it as Hunter with All Guard to see if is an attack-direction issue (i.e. that blocking towards the wall is the wrong direction to block).



Also, the best option to avoid Double's flyby attacks is getting used to the timing.
You will never have the time to reach the corners unless you are already really close.
You don't even have the time to search for Double if you lose sight of it.

There is a delay of a few seconds between when he retracts his tongue and when he initiates the flyby. If you head toward the corner immediately after the tongue disappears, I think you have enough time to get there without the assistance of a PA (it might be close).

However, Double can do the flyby attack again (I wonder if this is what you were referring to) at random times in the final phase, and it comes out with little delay. This time it is not centered on the map, so running to the corner will not be effective (unless you are lucky enough to be near the edge). You can still see where Double is coming from by looking at the flow of the visual indication on the ground, so you may still be able to evade the castle as it approaches. It is time to evade as soon as you see the castle since it flies so quickly.

TaigaUC
Dec 28, 2015, 11:55 PM
I tried Double on normal.
Smack him real hard on the first tongue and he runs out of HP. Warning comes up, too.
But you can't kill him until he reveals the final tongue.
You have to go through all the phases and stuff.

PD can skip multiple phases though. Punch the part hard enough and it'll go straight to last pahse.

TaigaUC
Feb 14, 2016, 03:08 PM
http://mmoloda.com/pso2/image.php?id=74590

Brave/Wise Stance guide.

TaigaUC
Apr 22, 2016, 09:16 AM
Uhh. When fighting PD, we broke 3 faces and then PD flew off into the distance, stayed in the distance in an upside down pose and never came close to let us hit the core.

Anyone ever seen that before?

sparab
Apr 22, 2016, 09:40 AM
Uhh. When fighting PD, we broke 3 faces and then PD flew off into the distance, stayed in the distance in an upside down pose and never came close to let us hit the core.

Anyone ever seen that before?

And not coming back whatsoever?

The only bugs I have encountered are invincible double on day 1 and floating PD that still attacks with claw and laser

TaigaUC
Apr 22, 2016, 09:48 AM
He came back after his "reveal core" time ran out. Flew away and came back.
Never seen that happen before.

He also did the "fly into the sky and attack from above" thing 3 times in a short period.
Never seen that happen so many times before either.

Wondering if maybe they changed it and it bugged up.

sparab
Apr 22, 2016, 10:02 AM
Sounds like lag caused by crappy host. I had many bizarre experiences during loser raid as well.

TaigaUC
Apr 22, 2016, 02:39 PM
Hmm. I guess you're right. We did have a ton of EN players.
It was a very weak multi, took 20 minutes to clear.

TaigaUC
Jun 16, 2016, 12:09 AM
Thought I'd try PD to see how people are doing in it. Haven't done it for months.
Multi was super ultra weak. As in, it took forever to stun Double once, took forever to stun PD once, etc.

So, bumping.

sparab
Jun 16, 2016, 12:47 AM
Your bump is futile because enhanced PD is coming next week.

Unless the two version co-exists, you probably need to rewrite 1/2 to 2/3 of this guide.