Normalizing movement speed and then messing it up again? =/

[MidCap]

I just don't understand why Sega would normalize movement speed by increasing the running speed and thereby decreasing the need / desire to use exploitative frame skips; only to turn around and add MORE skills and PAs that make the classes that can dash (ie. BR) even FASTER than before?

I certainly understand the benefits of having different types of attack speed in relation to power to add diversity, but this disparity in out-of-combat movement speed is very unfair.

*HU shows up to crack some skulls and everything is already dead.

Looks like we're back to the good old days.

Mods: I meant to post this in the general PSO2 forum, so if you see this, feel free to move it.

[Z-0]

Does it really matter?

It's not like anyone complaining about "exploitive movements" are going to do anything that requires it, anyway.

[MidCap]

Well, it's exploitative inasmuch that it only occurs because it's an imperfect video game.

In real life, there's a cost to participating in additional activities in relation to how fast one can propel oneself. The greatest sprinters in the world are not swinging swords while sprinting because doing so would COST them movement speed. It would NOT cause them to move faster or instantly re-position their legs so they could take another step sooner.

Dashing in video games by frame-cancelling has been a persistent problem for decades. It reduces the suspension of disbelief, usually causes annoying, repetitive noises and jerky animations, and just looks dumb.

It's really sad that the gaming industry has not identified or dealt with this problem yet. I put it on the same level as polygonal tearing, except tearing is always being worked on. =/

[LonelyGaruga]

Well this takes the cake for dumb complaints on this forum.

[MidCap]

Why is it a dumb complaint?

[TaigaUC]

I would rather have a game with disbelievable step dashing mechanics than some realistic game limiting the player to believable-only stuff.
Devs nowadays are afraid to do anything fancy in case it breaks immersion.
I miss old games which had stylized simple graphics where you could do anything and it wouldn't break immersion because it wasn't trying to be realistic.
You could get away with simply writing what's happening in a text box, without having to animate it. Now people rage if your character doesn't visibly enact everything in fine detail.

Notice how a lot of these modern games have attacks that barely move position? That's because a lot of them are motion-captured instead of keyframed by hand.
Makes for static, boring animations. Realistic, yes. But realism is boring as shit.
I remember when I introduced WoW to a high school friend, and he just constantly bitched about every single little thing that wasn't "realistic".
Needless to say, I no longer talk to that guy.

Anyway, PSO2 is not a game anyone should expect detailed realism from.
It doesn't have hand animations, and it doesn't even have IKs on the legs for standing on slanted ground.
Characters don't display facial animations unless you tell them to, and the available facial expressions look pretty awful on most characters.
That is all pretty standard stuff for modern games.

That being said, I understand your concern about movement speed not being able to match PA stuff.
But the fact is it takes skill to do fancy cancelling stuff. It doesn't take skill to hit V and go AFK.
I'm grateful that at least regular running isn't slow as molasses like it used to be.

[Waku Waku]

I don't think the running speed increase was even about balancing movement between classes. I thought it was about reducing the incentive for things like quad stepping w/ weapon switching.

[LonelyGaruga]

Why is it a dumb complaint?

Faulty logic. Realism does not create a better game. Fun does. Although realism can create fun, it can also detract from fun. Ergo, it is a subjective problem and stating that it's a problem with video games is total BS.

Even if you wanted to go for the realism route, dashing with attacks works just fine if you consider that ARKS most likely are not running at their maximum speed all the time, merely what can be sustained without exhaustion. When they perform an attack that propels themselves faster than they can run, it's because they're exerting themselves more than they would while running normally (or aren't even running in the case of Ilzonde/Zandeon travel).


I don't think the running speed increase was even about balancing movement between classes. I thought it was about reducing the incentive for things like quad stepping w/ weapon switching.

This is the stated intent yeah. Just like how Magatsu was capped because Sega wanted there to be more equalized reward between casuals and organized players, because the organized players were getting too much reward compared to the casual players. It wasn't because of how much EX cubes it gave, but because the organized players were getting so much more cubes than casual players that Sega deemed it unfair.

[TaigaUC]

If PSO2 wanted realism they wouldn't have put in those super deformed faces.
Or any other number of weird stuff that PSO2 has.

If you want realism you're in the wrong place. Go play Call of Doody or something.
Those games are designed to focus on delivering a reailstic cinematic experience.

I really wish traditional games and cinematic games were separated genres.
It's a huge pain having to deal with people expecting one or the other from everything.
There's a line where you can't have both fancy gameplay and cinematic realism, because they cancel each other out.
Depending on the type of game, of course. It's easy to have cinematic realism in something like a scripted FPS.
You can only do so much to suspend disbelief. Easiest way is to limit what the audience experiences/sees/does. That's why it negatively affects gameplay/control/possibilities.

Also, fun is subjective.

[Flaoc]

i have to say i dont mind the quad step dash not being as effective for a legit reason

weapon swap stutters.. in ep2 if you had a quad dasher and you werent on good client rip being able to do anything. besides theres better methods now that dont even need constant non stop weapon swapping to do. oh and this thread is incredibly stupid just saying.

[Gamemako]

I've never been a fan of that sort of movement mechanic, and was quite pleased with the change to increased movement speed. If such a mechanic supplements normal activity in certain cases, that's fine. If the mechanic replaces normal activity, then it either needs to be automated (e.g. by making all movement that fast) or discouraged. In the case of Guren, you can address it a few ways: making it teleport only a very short distance when used without a target, cost the full amount up front, and/or mitigating canceling mechanics which allow movement in a single direction without making the second attack.


reailstic cinematic

That would be an oxymoron.

[TaigaUC]

Not when you consider that some people's sense of reality is heavily influenced by cinematic media.

I would personally be extremely glad if they just removed running through maps.
I just want to fight the damn bosses.

[MidCap]

Gamemako: Thank you for sharing. At least I'm not the only person in the world who feels this way.

To the numerous detractors:

If you think this was only about realism then you missed the point.

We have a character who can dash AND basically creates a wall of damage as he moves, rendering many of the more "powerful" characters useless. Everything is dead by the time the slower characters arrive, so they never get to USE any of those more powerful moves.

This thread was about game balance; the fact that dashing via frame-cancelling looks herky-jerky is just the cherry on top. It's unbelievable that some people thought the aesthetic issues were the main argument... -_-;

I don't mind a video game being intense, but I cannot stand the tryhard mentality which asserts that a simple task such as "moving from one room to the next" should be this ritualistic and rigorous button exercise. That sort of gamer finds a way to turn everything into hard labor.

Some of us have to expend our desire for efficiency at these inconvenient things called JOBS, so by the time we get home, we would rather our video games be a combination of fun and difficult things; instead of 100% difficult and tedious things. If tryhard gamers keep on accepting and promoting exploitative game mechanics for the sake of "dat meta," then games are going to continue to get worse.

Developers need to start approaching game balance with the mindset of:

"How will some obnoxious prick try to circumvent the checks and balances I've put in place?"

If developers do this, and are willing to IMMEDIATELY plug any holes that are found, they will succeed.

PSO2 fails miserably at plugging holes; exploitative or overpowered characters / mechanics are allowed to stay "on top of the mountain" for six months, eight months, or even a year at a time. This causes player dissatisfaction.

Imbalance in games and exploits are dangerous. Players "write off" the characters, items, and attacks that are unintentionally affected by imbalance, and huge pieces of enjoyment and fulfillment are lost. Think about how many PAs and Techs look awesome but are NEVER used because they are useless. There's no excuse for a game to suffer like this in the year 2015.

Game developers SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN BETTER AT THIS by now.

Disclaimer: This isn't about being butthurt. I have every single class at Lv. 75. I just hate shoddy work.

[CrossOmega]

Umm just checking.... is this thread supposed to be in the general section and not the gameplay section in the first place?

Edit: Just spotted op edit. I was just checking anyway. Go right on ahead.

[milranduil]

i'm too lazy to learn how to guren dash properly so i made a thread about it instead of playing the game i supposedly find enjoyable

fixed

[Natsu Nem]

I use exploitive mechanics to Zondeel stuff for the MPA behind me to finish off.

Am I a bad person?

[CrossOmega]

I use exploitive mechanics to do my taco faster with everyone else is in front.

Am I a bad person?

[LonelyGaruga]

Some of us have to expend our desire for efficiency at these inconvenient things called JOBS

Love the job card. News flash: The same people that are efficient in video games are generally efficient at a lot of things, including work. It is not a desire, it is an outlook on life.

[Selphea]

Well there's a lot of ways to be efficient. A person can learn to be very fast at copy-pasting and typing into Excel, or simply learn to write code and formulas that automate calculations.

Japanese culture is rooted quite a bit into the former and it shows in their game design, e.g. EWGFs, 1F Links, FRCs. Otoh writing macros and mods is a very Western game thing. Ofc Japanese robots (yes they exist IRL) are pretty amazing too.

P.S. I autorun just because.

[Waku Waku]

Love the job card. News flash: The same people that are efficient in video games are generally efficient at a lot of things, including work. It is not a desire, it is an outlook on life.
That's not really that true. I mean it's definitely true for some people, but making it a generalization like that makes it just as silly as his comment (which is also definitely true for some people).


@MidCap
It's unfortunate that you aren't happy with the existence of travel PAs, but they've been around a while and it's unlikely SEGA will ever kill them as a concept. If you hate them that much this might not be the game for you. If it's just that you're unhappy that sword Hu can't keep up (you seem to be singling that out in your posts, but I don't play sword Hu so I can't really comment if that's true or not) then just take advantage of a different weapon like from your subclass for traveling.

[TaigaUC]

I addressed the gameplay aspect as well as the realism aspect. I wasn't "detracting" you.

I've said a ton of times that game companies, usually JP ones, often don't bother trying to make up for the possibility of people being assholes.
Mainly because those are the minority in Japan.

I really don't know what "character" you're talking about that "can dash AND basically create a wall of damage".
Assault Buster? Straight Charge? Tornado Dance? Twister Fall 0? Il Zonde?
I can't imagine that you're referring to Guren Tessen, because it hasn't worked that way for me. I haven't seen others mowing anything down with it either.
And yes, I have tons of characters at 75 for every class too. It doesn't mean much, really. I have seen 9999 shitty players at level 75.
Personally, I can't say too much about Guren Tessen as I haven't played Katana much lately. There's something about it I just don't like, not sure what.
My preferences are Knuckles, and now Double Saber. TMG, Rifle and Bow, too. Then Wand. Techs bore me.

The whole game is full of stuff where everything dies before other people can catch up.
It's not just class design issues, but progression issues. There are tons of people with fancy gear rendering the rest of the game pointless for people at lower difficulties.
Aside from incentive, stronger gear is there for weaker people to play at higher levels of difficulty, but when higher skill people can obtain the same gear, the gap never closes.

All melee was vastly far worse before they buffed melee damage, sped up and reduced hitpause of many melee weapons multiple times, and increased the speed/distance/limits of melee travel attacks.
That's the way it was for like 2 damn years. Or at least a year. i don't remember, but it was terrible and sucked. They are still buffing melee even now.
Sword in general has always been slow as shit. Sword Gear needs to go to hell.
I've complained about it a billion times and I'm sure tons of other people have.

Sure, you can complain about these things all you want, but SEGA are just not very bright at fixing these issues.
Much of the game has clearly been an exercise in experimentation.
There's no point going off at us about it as if we don't know or are ignorant of the issues.
I don't think anybody's disagreeing with you so much as you're mish-mashing strange irrelevant points.
That's probably why everyone focused on the realism aspect.

Finally, that job comment was ridiculous and irrelevant.
Ironically, one of the reasons other people kill stuff so quickly is because they have jobs that they earn money from, that ends up being spent on PSO2.
So, "jobs -> money -> PSO2 AC scratch items -> sell -> ingame cash -> stronger character".
It's not "no job = free time to learn a very simple thing -> obnoxious unobtainable 100% difficult skill". That's not how it works.
See those guys finishing time attack insanely quickly? They've very likely spent tons of cash on PSO2 to fancy up their character.
People without jobs are much less likely to have done that.

Difficulty is subjective, as is fun.
It doesn't take me long to learn stuff like step dash, and I am very far from being top player.
That kind of thing is not "100% difficult", nor is it even necessary for regular play.
It's not like you're missing out on much by smacking trash mobs anyway.
Whether it's by you or someone else, they're going to go splat in a few seconds.
Multi is flawed. If you don't like boring multis (I hate them) then just play alone or in small groups like I do. Problem solved.

I taught a friend how to use step dash in a very short amount of time. He hates it, but he learned how to use it well.
If I and my friend who hates PSO2 and hates step dashing/travel PAs can learn this stuff in probably less than an hour, then what the hell is your excuse?
It's ironic that you complain about shoddy work when you yourself don't seem to want to put an effort into learning stuff.

Protip: If other people can do something you can't, it does not mean that you're the only person in the world with a job.

And I am absolutely certain I hate shoddy work a bazillion more times than you or anybody else on here.
So don't try and dismiss my posts by saying I'm detracting from your argument, because I'm not.


Extra disclaimer: I'm lacking sleep again.

[HentaiLolicon]

@TaigaUC: TL,DR
@MidCap: get yourself a Snickers. I know how to dash, but been running normally since beginning. People have choices so as you, give less fuck and you can achieve a happy life

[LonelyGaruga]

That's not really that true. I mean it's definitely true for some people, but making it a generalization like that makes it just as silly as his comment (which is also definitely true for some people).

That's why I said generally. Everyone I know that plays efficiently takes an efficient mindset toward other things as well, myself included, so I find it especially insulting that every single casual player seems to view high level players as no lifing losers that put all their time and energy into a single video game and have no job or responsibilities to speak of.

[Z-0]

I don't really see the issue because it's not like you have to dash around to do anything in PSO2...

And if the supposed problem is that the "weaker" players are able to kill everything before the "stronger" players can, doesn't that just mean the enemies are too much of a pushover? Last I checked, movement speed is supposed to be a strength that classes could have, but apparently not!

[GoldenFalcon]

I would be happy if they removed the frame canceling of weapon switching and la, since it doesn't make sense. Travel PA's are supposed to be fast though *cough buff rising flag cough*

[MidCap]

I would agree that in-combat movement speed should be class-diverse, as diversity in combat, when balanced, makes a good game.

However, when those in-combat abilities allow for some characters to travel significantly faster outside of combat, it creates an unfair environment.

This sort of movement exploit does not give a SLIGHT advantage as we would expect between different classes in different situations, it gives a SIGNIFICANT advantage to those who possess the speed, and a crippling disadvantage to those who do not.

Again: I could easily switch over to Braver and start doing this. I'm not mad at presence of lack of ability on my own part. I'm upset, however, that this isn't seen as an issue when it's been so clearly illustrated.

If you want your online RPGs to contain huge advantages and crippling disadvantages, then so be it. I am not satisfied with this. I expect better game design.

People have been pulling this kind of crap since Ocarnia of Time or even before. It's something that should have been routed out of games long ago. Plus the wear and tear on the controller is devastating...

[Kondibon]

I would agree that in-combat movement speed should be class-diverse, as diversity in combat, when balanced, makes a good game.

However, when those in-combat abilities allow for some characters to travel significantly faster outside of combat, it creates an unfair environment.

This sort of movement exploit does not give a SLIGHT advantage as we would expect between different classes in different situations, it gives a SIGNIFICANT advantage to those who possess the speed, and a crippling disadvantage to those who do not.

Again: I could easily switch over to Braver and start doing this. I'm not mad at presence of lack of ability on my own part. I'm upset, however, that this isn't seen as an issue when it's been so clearly illustrated.

If you want your online RPGs to contain huge advantages and crippling disadvantages, then so be it. I am not satisfied with this. I expect better game design.

People have been pulling this kind of crap since Ocarnia of Time or even before. It's something that should have been routed out of games long ago. Plus the wear and tear on the controller is devastating...An advantage at what?

[LonelyGaruga]

People have been pulling this kind of crap since Ocarnia of Time or even before. It's something that should have been routed out of games long ago. Plus the wear and tear on the controller is devastating...

I'm sorry, what did you say earlier?


To the numerous detractors:

If you think this was only about realism then you missed the point.

This thread was about game balance

Are you sure?

Anyway, every class has great dashing methods so complaining about Guren is pretty dumb. Only class I can think of that doesn't have a great dashing method is Ra/Hu I guess? Any Fighter combination can Heartless Impact, any Gunner combination can Grim Barrage, any tech using combination can Ilzonde...yeah. Guren's the best dashing method, but not significantly faster than these options, either.

[MidCap]

Guren can be used many more times on the same amount of PP. =/

[Z-0]

idk, Guren is kind of its own class in TA.

Nothing comes close to it because of its non-existant PP cost and extreme distance travelled at speed... just sayin'.

[MidCap]

Right. And that's precisely what makes it unfair. "Nothing comes close to it" in terms of the advantage it provides.

Usually when things like this are encountered in RPGs- things that create large imbalance, people say, "That needs to be fixed."

Why is this being so arduously defended?

When it's clear that something needs to be buffed or nerfed, but players argue against it because of bias toward their own preferences; THAT is an indication of immaturity as a gamer. You're willing to allow the game's environment to remain in a worsened state so that you can continue to enjoy an undeserved benefit.

[HentaiLolicon]

If you want it to be fixed so bad, just send send an email to SEGA. Whinning here won't help

[Kondibon]

Why is this being so arduously defended?Because it's unimportant to anyone who doesn't want to be a competitive TAer, and if someone DOES want to be a competitive TAer then they'd just use it anyway.

[LonelyGaruga]

idk, Guren is kind of its own class in TA.

Nothing comes close to it because of its non-existant PP cost and extreme distance travelled at speed... just sayin'.

Well, yeah, that's fair, but in typical gameplay every spawn is close enough that the advantage Guren has in cost and speed isn't that big.

Certainly not enough to warrant balance adjustments like OP is arguing, at least.

[vantpers]

Normal movement is awkward in PSO2. You move like a snail until you put your weapon away and pick up speed. Those travel PAs are a godsend since shitters like me can only double dash. Sometimes I wish double taps on movement keys would let you enter sprint mode that is a bit faster than current full run speed and cancels some PAs.

People killing all the stuff before you get there is more of a problem of Sega being unable to give enemies some proper HP and class balance. If it weren't "dash exploits" it would be Forces with Rafoies and death lasers.

[Kondibon]

If it weren't "dash exploits" it would be Forces with Rafoies and death lasers.Before multi dashing became common that's EXACTLY what it was. :wacko:

[vantpers]

Rafoie actually died to XH hp increase since there were more efficient ways to kill stuff then. Even SH wasn't that bad up until you had like 3 of those. Similar things with spooky hands, they only got supper annoying for melee when you gathered a few of those guys in one place. I miss Ilmegid. It was less annoying than EP3 fire fo.

[Z-0]

I personally think you're making a mountain out of a molehill though, because last I checked, hardly anyone dashes around and just walks everywhere.

Personally I hate walking like the guy above me says -- it feels so unnatural and sluggish, stopping and starting again like that.

[KazukiQZ]

There's 11* ilzonde wand and 12* grim barrage TMG, both are all class , for RaHu to dash around owo)b

[TaigaUC]

Yes, I rarely see people dashing around, and even if they do, a single person rarely kills XH stuff that quickly.

Fundamentally the problem is PSO2 has large amounts of space where there is nothing to do except run.
There are games where, when there is nothing to do but run, you get a massive speed boost.
Or everyone has the ability to dash/run at high speed.

[Selphea]

Gimme Blade & Soul running ;_;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2-VnB0snzw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2-VnB0snzw

[TaigaUC]

I often fell asleep traveling between places in Blade and Soul. No exaggeration.

[HentaiLolicon]

In term of traveling, I miss dem fly wings from Ragnarok 1. Randomly teleports you around map, then drops you right on Boss as it's the last one :|

[Achelousaurus]

Faulty logic. Realism does not create a better game. Fun does.
Amen.


Why is this being so arduously defended?
This game got 99 problems but Guren ain't one.
This game is broken as fuck precisely cause Sega continues addressing the small, unimportant, easy to fix things that don't really matter in the long run to appease enough people so they let the huge gamebreaking flaws slide a little longer.

Atm running speed is enough so that neither guren nor ilzonde make a big difference, let alone the few people that quad+ dash.

In ep 2 you could zone out pretty easily in eqs and be out of range for exp and drops.
Now that only happens cause people run ahead for Gryphon farming and it has nothing to do with how they move.

[un1t27]

Amen.


This game got 99 problems but Guren ain't one.
This game is broken as fuck precisely cause Sega continues addressing the small, unimportant, easy to fix things that don't really matter in the long run to appease enough people so they let the huge gamebreaking flaws slide a little longer.

Atm running speed is enough so that neither guren nor ilzonde make a big difference, let alone the few people that quad+ dash.

In ep 2 you could zone out pretty easily in eqs and be out of range for exp and drops.
Now that only happens cause people run ahead for Gryphon farming and it has nothing to do with how they move.
You continue to complain but still play the game.

https://d.maxfile.ro/uokcrrzejg.gif

[Kondibon]

You continue to complain but still play the game.
People are allowed to complain and still play the game, if anything it just means they care. At least he's writing out this thoughts and having an actual discussion instead of just randomly popping onto the forums to heckle people.

[Superia]

At least he's writing out this thoughts and having an actual discussion instead of just randomly popping onto the forums to heckle people.

Who would do such a thing?

[Kondibon]

Who would do such a thing?
Me. :wacko:

[Saffran]

His point seems fair though. Surely the maps and spawn points were not conceived thinking "well, players will *of course* mix dashing, dash cancel, changing weapons, specific PAs, lobby actions etc to simply travel each and any distance instead of using the dedicated standard moving around mechanisms". And if you look at the comparison videos, some methods are immensely more effective.

Now, that's a good thing when you have contents in the game where you can exploit it, but even Time Attack quests are not really made out with these outrageous combinations in mind. Otherwise, we'd have a lot more spots where a certain PA would allow for a shortcut. Remember TA1? The snow ledges or the first barrier to the sides which we'd bypass with gunslash PAs back then? SEGA made barriers go all the way up after that to prevent these.

My point is, I can clearly see where he's going with this. Someone was asking "what's your excuse for not doing it" but it's the other way around: what's your excuse for using it all the damn time? The tickets, I guess. It makes sense. But giving people a hard time because they're not constantly trying to get the world record in "getting the fastest to the enemy" is downright ludicrous. He's (we're) already *running* towards the enemy, that *will have* to be enough. And it follows that if time and time again all enemies are dead before we actually get to the action, then *you* are the one impeding our game, so *you* have to go. I don't care that you contribute the most damage to the boss or to the run - I'm here to play. I want to smack enemies in the face with my favortie PA, I want to just guard a King Vahrda canon and destroy it in the process because I have lv3 potential Rim Riese, I want to revive fallen comrades and whip out different chats to ask for support with the annoying missile turret whilst asking some person in the party to use an AIS or something, then run to the golrahdas, then go use the freeze barrier of the tower in the nick of time, etc etc etc. If you kill everything before me simply moving around and I don't get to play, I'm not going to be happy. I might be grateful, under certain conditions, but I'm not going to be happy.

[vantpers]

Rather than hoping that everybody will hold back why don't you tell Sega to fix their game already? It's not people's fault that enemies are mostly pushovers.

I am surprised people are whining about travel PAs so much since they are all pretty easy to use compared to x dashing. If you are bothered that your class doesn't have a cool travel PA then you should be asking for a cool travel PA not to take them off everyone because honestly the gameplay would be too sluggish without those. The reason to dash right now is that full run speed kicks in after a few seconds only and stops the moment you attack. All I would want is either an actual sprint option or to give you full speed right away.

[Superia]

[Spoiler-box]
His point seems fair though. Surely the maps and spawn points were not conceived thinking "well, players will *of course* mix dashing, dash cancel, changing weapons, specific PAs, lobby actions etc to simply travel each and any distance instead of using the dedicated standard moving around mechanisms". And if you look at the comparison videos, some methods are immensely more effective.

Now, that's a good thing when you have contents in the game where you can exploit it, but even Time Attack quests are not really made out with these outrageous combinations in mind. Otherwise, we'd have a lot more spots where a certain PA would allow for a shortcut. Remember TA1? The snow ledges or the first barrier to the sides which we'd bypass with gunslash PAs back then? SEGA made barriers go all the way up after that to prevent these.

My point is, I can clearly see where he's going with this. Someone was asking "what's your excuse for not doing it" but it's the other way around: what's your excuse for using it all the damn time? The tickets, I guess. It makes sense. But giving people a hard time because they're not constantly trying to get the world record in "getting the fastest to the enemy" is downright ludicrous. He's (we're) already *running* towards the enemy, that *will have* to be enough. And it follows that if time and time again all enemies are dead before we actually get to the action, then *you* are the one impeding our game, so *you* have to go. I don't care that you contribute the most damage to the boss or to the run - I'm here to play. I want to smack enemies in the face with my favortie PA, I want to just guard a King Vahrda canon and destroy it in the process because I have lv3 potential Rim Riese, I want to revive fallen comrades and whip out different chats to ask for support with the annoying missile turret whilst asking some person in the party to use an AIS or something, then run to the golrahdas, then go use the freeze barrier of the tower in the nick of time, etc etc etc. If you kill everything before me simply moving around and I don't get to play, I'm not going to be happy. I might be grateful, under certain conditions, but I'm not going to be happy.[/Spoiler-box]

I do not see how any of the points made by the original poster are fair, accurate, or even logical. As for Time Attacks, I am not sure how more clear the developers could have been with the implication that they are to be completed as quickly as possible. Adding those upper boundaries just means they believed that particular strategy to be too effective, which is also why they modified the way that mobs spawn on the final wave on the first stage of Naberius II Time Attack.

You must understand that public MPAs are built on players who would like to complete it as quickly and conveniently as possible. This is a fact. The part about asking for a reason not to do these things has not been answered anywhere. It is evident why people do use these strategies (i.e. speed), but the only reasoning against it is that you personally want to use less effective things to preserve some small approximation of difficulty? No one is trying to remove your rights to play the game however you like, but I will say with confidence that most players will prefer that you do it outside of their MPAs.

[Achelousaurus]

You continue to complain but still play the game.

https://d.maxfile.ro/uokcrrzejg.gif
Mentioned it pretty often.
I still like the game despite the flaws but that doesn't mean they don't piss me off. And since it's fundamental flaws I encounter them literally every time I play.

And as far as I'm concerned, dashing/running speed is an issue that has been addressed and fixed already.
Other games are much worse, TERA for example nags you with advertisement that if you feel slow (the running speed feels slower than pre ep 3 PSO2) you could just buy a cash shop item to be faster for a couple of minutes.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Mentioned it pretty often.
I still like the game despite the flaws but that doesn't mean they don't piss me off. And since it's fundamental flaws I encounter them literally every time I play.

And as far as I'm concerned, dashing/running speed is an issue that has been addressed and fixed already.
Other games are much worse, TERA for example nags you with advertisement that if you feel slow (the running speed feels slower than pre ep 3 PSO2) you could just buy a cash shop item to be faster for a couple of minutes.

Player move speed in combat is limited and normalized for balance reasons last I checked.

Outside of combat, everyone has mounts.

[HentaiLolicon]

How about we let this thread RIP? Unless you can ask Sega to do something, things will remain the same.
We all can take dashing-cake. But, if you refuse cake, then don't bitch about those who take it.

[Nitro Vordex]

complaining about HU being slow

not running max speed and/or using guilty break to get in

:lol:

[TaigaUC]

They should just remove the charging on Sword stuff.
Charging in general takes away from fast-paced action feel.
Anticipation is good, but the way it's done for Sword doesn't feel satisfying at all, just cumbersome.

Guilty Break feels awkward as hell, too.
There's no startup animation, it feels like you got ejected forward by a catapult and then you swing upwards?
Who would use their dashing momentum to stop and do an awkward upwards swing? A forward strike seems most obvious.
I actually complained about this in the enquete, but it's probably the least of SEGA's worries.

[HentaiLolicon]

Guilty Break feels awkward as hell, too.
There's no startup animation, it feels like you got ejected forward by a catapult and then you swing upwards?
Who would use their dashing momentum to stop and do an awkward upwards swing? A forward strike seems most obvious.

You are asking for Logic in a game where 1.35m Lolis can high jump up to 2m right on spot, some android/human/ect fall from buildings at the same height as maga but don't even lose 1 hp, or Rangers that shoot a grenade right next to them and nothing happens

[NoobSpectre]

You are asking for Logic in a game where 1.35m Lolis can high jump up to 2m right on spot, some android/human/ect fall from buildings at the same height as maga but don't even lose 1 hp, or Rangers that shoot a grenade right next to them and nothing happens

Actually, Dark Falz Elder Fight is "logic" enough to let non-CAST breathe in space without visible life support.

[Superia]

They should just remove the charging on Sword stuff.
Charging in general takes away from fast-paced action feel.
Anticipation is good, but the way it's done for Sword doesn't feel satisfying at all, just cumbersome.

I think the charging itself is fine (with Sword Gear at full of course), but the damage is never worth the huge hitstop and overall lack of speed. If Sword actually hit as hard as it looked like it was, I feel like it could be a top weapon for bosses. Sword Gear on the other hand just needs to not exist. It takes way too long to build it up even with Fury Gear when compared to other things, and when you also consider that Sword requires Sacrifice Bite in addition to the gear, it kind of feels like Gunner main right after the S-Roll nerf, where you had all these extra parameters that needed to be maintained for no particular benefit.

[TaigaUC]

It's not so much logic I'm asking for, it's the design and animation of the attack in general.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_basic_principles_of_animation

Outside of the charging, Guilty Break lacks anticipation.
You just snap into a ridiculously fast sprint animation, and it suddenly stops with zero momentum. There's no sense of weight.
It doesn't feel like your character is carrying or swinging the sword.
Sword animations should revolve around the size and weight of the sword.

Lately getting the feeling that a lot of professional companies hire animators that don't seem to understand the basic principles of animation.
Probably everyone relying too heavily on motion capture now.

[vantpers]

They should just remove the charging on Sword stuff.
Charging in general takes away from fast-paced action feel.
Anticipation is good, but the way it's done for Sword doesn't feel satisfying at all, just cumbersome.

Guilty Break feels awkward as hell, too.
There's no startup animation, it feels like you got ejected forward by a catapult and then you swing upwards?
Who would use their dashing momentum to stop and do an awkward upwards swing? A forward strike seems most obvious.
I actually complained about this in the enquete, but it's probably the least of SEGA's worries.
Charging is okay and I don't see how charge times below 0.5 second for Guilty Break take away from it being fast paced. Sword is a fine weapon and if it's underpowered it's not because something is inherently wrong with it. Only really annoying thing for sword is Sacrifice Bite.

And Guilty Break animation is fine and logical. You use the power of photons to activate you 100km/h sprint and then shoulder check your enemy (you do a small hop, stop your legs letting your torso and the sword's pommel swing at the enemy), only the second blow after losing your momentum is an upward swing. Guilty Break animation is great your dumbass.