I'm getting frustrated with people being outraged by censorship

[Zorafim]

This Overwatch thing is what's getting to me, though it's just the latest issue on the subject. Looking at the original post and the followup, it seems like the original complaint was that a female character was performing a fairly sexy victory stance which clashed with the character's personality, and Blizzard agreed and removed that stance from the game. What people got out of this was that the character was too sexy, and Blizzard censored the sexiness.

And this is what frustrates me. Both the stance and Blizzard's response are both the minorest of deals. But the internet has exploded on this, turning it from a design decision to a war against sexuality. People are making it about things that it's not about.
The stance wasn't removed because it's too sexy. In fact, even compared to what's already in the game, it's not all that sexy. It was removed because it was a character flaunting her sex appeal when she had no reason to. There's no problem with the character having sex appeal, but she's acting out of character when she poses like that. It's like Link stripping off his tunic and flexing his muscles after completing a dungeon; there's nothing wrong with Link appearing shirtless, but there's no reason for him to do it.
And Blizzard removing the stance isn't a statement on Blizzards take on sexuality. Blizzard's employees had already been discussing whether that stance worked or not, and that post was one of the things that made them decide against it.

Honestly, what I'm getting out of this is that people hate that every character isn't as overtly sexual as possible. And loads of female characters are already as sexualized as possible. Loads of Blizzard characters are already sexualized as possible. We have enough sexualization already, so stop trying to come up with excuses to be outraged at less sexualization. Allow women to play as something besides a male sex fantasy for once. Hell, allow me to play as something besides a male power fantasy or male sex fantasy. There are loads of neat character concepts that we're losing out on because females are required to be as sexy as possible because men keep on complaining that they aren't sexy enough. And I'm tired of my video game news feed being filled with people shaming companies for deciding against even more sexiness. I don't care about sexiness, I get sexiness wherever I look. I just want more Zelda WiiU and Nintendo NX information!

[Kondibon]

Honestly, what I'm getting out of this is that people hate that every character isn't as overtly sexual as possible. And loads of female characters are already as sexualized as possible. Loads of Blizzard characters are already sexualized as possible. We have enough sexualization already, so stop trying to come up with excuses to be outraged at less sexualization. Allow women to play as something besides a male sex fantasy for once. Hell, allow me to play as something besides a male power fantasy or male sex fantasy. There are loads of neat character concepts that we're losing out on because females are required to be as sexy as possible because men keep on complaining that they aren't sexy enough. And I'm tired of my video game news feed being filled with people shaming companies for deciding against even more sexiness. I don't care about sexiness, I get sexiness wherever I look. I just want more Zelda WiiU and Nintendo NX information!That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? I don't know everything about the situation, but people seemed more angry at the fact that blizzard (seemingly) gave in to complaints so quickly because it sets a bad precedent, not because she became less sexy. If she never had the pose in the first place I don't think anyone would be demanding it or hating the character for not being "sexy enough".

[Zorafim]

It might be if not for the way they're expressing the outrage. And if that was the case, then everything would die down once Blizzard explained that not only were they stewing on that decision for a while before this complaint popped up, but that the reason they're having a Beta in the first place is to make decisions like this. They're completely justified in their decision.
But not only are people continuing their outrage, they're making it seem like the reason for the change was because Blizzard was scared of offending people for being too sexy. Look at any response to this, and the person will say "Look at this picture, does this seem too sexy to you? There's no reason to change it!". And that is just not the issue. So either they're not doing any bit of research (reading the original post and Blizzard's reply is enough to see all the information), or they're changing the issue to suit their needs.

[Kondibon]

So either they're not doing any bit of research considering how often I've seen people jump on bandwagons without doing any research at all so many times I don't see why you think the majority of people wouldn't be doing that.

And as far as I can tell it IS dying down. I mean, there's always gonna be people complaining, there's always people complaining about everything, but I guarantee you this isn't going to be an issue in like a month.

[Zorafim]

Until then, I'm going to complain about people complaining until I can't complain anymore.

[Kondibon]

Fair enough. Not like I'm any better.

[BIG OLAF]

because men keep on complaining that [women] aren't sexy enough.

I mostly agree with the rant, even though I hate censorship in general for any reason (as I strongly believe anyone should be able to state their opinions or preferences about anything anywhere they wish without serious repercussion). It's just getting to be a chore. However, I know complete silence will give the Social Justice Totalitarian crowd exactly what they want, so it shouldn't ever be let go so easily.

That being said, where exactly does the above quoted statement actually happen? I've never seen this.

[The Walrus]

Things probably wouldn't have been as bad if Blizzard made it known beforehand that they weren't sure if they wanted to keep the pose or not. But alas they didn't and things exploded.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go delete my battle.net account in protest.

[Kondibon]

Things probably wouldn't have been as bad if Blizzard made it known beforehand that they weren't sure if they wanted to keep the pose or not.That's not reasonable at all, especially since it's kinda expected that these kinds of games change a lot in various ways. And the whole Beta thing.

[PhotonDrop]

Smells like marketing to me.

[The Walrus]

That's not reasonable at all, especially since it's kinda expected that these kinds of games change a lot in various ways. And the whole Beta thing.

i never said it was reasonable

it also doesn't really look reasonable to change something about a game because of one post/topic to be fair

sure they eventually explained that they were thinking about changing it anyway, but it was just too late for them then.

[isCasted]

The problem with the change in Overwatch was not that it removed some "sexual" thing. The problem is in the fact that it was literally single person's request, while everyone else in the orignal thread was against it. Devs made it look like they simply don't give a shit about their fanbase.

The follow-up post that explained the situation more clearly would have been fine if the first one wasn't a thing (and thread wasn't locked after it). They essentially contradict each other, because they state wholly different reasons for the pose's removal, so it's like Blizzard devs are just fucking with their fans.

[Z-0]

Even if Blizzard came forward with their justifiable reasons for removing the pose in Overwatch, people would have still acted like entitled manchildren. Take away anything that people might like, even if for the right reasons, and you will always get a negative response.

While I don't know much about the Overwatch situation, I can't help but feeling like both sides are just as bad as each other. The people who complain about censorship aggressively are usually entitled twats who can't seem to see outside their own little boxes. I disagree with a lot of the censorship too, but some people can't take the other side of the argument and everything has to boil down to "I don't like it, therefore it's wrong".

Take the Star Ocean 5 change, for example. One of the characters got a slight change because western audiences felt like her outfit was a bit too sexy and/or revealing, specifically around the underwear area. Perfectly understandable, as Star Ocean 5 is not exactly about fanservice, and it was something that didn't necessarily fit in the game. The response?

[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/6D9UHsm.jpg[/spoiler-box]
While I can understand the principle, people need to pick their battles wisely and understand that sometimes, censorship is not really censorship per se, but a perfectly justifiable change because something doesn't actually fit.

Oh yeah, here's what they were raging about by the way:
[spoiler-box]http://puu.sh/o6TPQ/9210f06b2c.png[/spoiler-box]
Longer skirt = Censorship.

[Nitro Vordex]

ITT: we bitch about the vocal minority

[The Walrus]

Even if Blizzard came forward with their justifiable reasons for removing the pose in Overwatch, people would have still acted like entitled manchildren. Take away anything that people might like, even if for the right reasons, and you will always get a negative response.

While I don't know much about the Overwatch situation, I can't help but feeling like both sides are just as bad as each other. The people who complain about censorship aggressively are usually entitled twats who can't seem to see outside their own little boxes. I disagree with a lot of the censorship too, but some people can't take the other side of the argument and everything has to boil down to "I don't like it, therefore it's wrong".

Take the Star Ocean 5 change, for example. One of the characters got a slight change because western audiences felt like her outfit was a bit too sexy and/or revealing, specifically around the underwear area. Perfectly understandable, as Star Ocean 5 is not exactly about fanservice, and it was something that didn't necessarily fit in the game. The response?

[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/6D9UHsm.jpg[/spoiler-box]
While I can understand the principle, people need to pick their battles wisely and understand that sometimes, censorship is not really censorship per se, but a perfectly justifiable change because something doesn't actually fit.

Oh yeah, here's what they were raging about by the way:
[spoiler-box]http://puu.sh/o6TPQ/9210f06b2c.png[/spoiler-box]
Longer skirt = Censorship.

actually they changed what was basically a thong into normal panties

[Zorafim]

ITT: we bitch about the vocal minority

I'm bitching about the vocal minority getting all up in my face. It's in the webcomics I read, it's on my youtube feed, it's on my game videos. If you take the time it takes to make one of those videos or comics, and use it to research the subject, you'll see they kinda have a point. The pose doesn't fit, woops, let's replace it with something else. But nope, you've gotta flood my news with the war against sexiness.
Freaking one of the characters you play in the game has cleavage going down to her naval! Why can't you be happy with that? Stop talking about this probably okay game and give me some news I care about!

[The Walrus]

the war on anti-censorship heroes is always news

[PhotonDrop]

If they really were going to remove it anyway, they should have stayed quiet about it. Full stop. Assuaging some soccer mom, worried her child would develop a complex from seeing a butt, was a bonehead move. Following up on the criticism the way they did even more so. "W-well we were gonna remove it anyway!" sounds like serious back-pedaling. Screw the narrative about it being "overly sexualized" or "out of character".

The whole thing is blown so far out of proportion it must have been a deliberate move on Blizzard's part. Nobody cared about the game until this happened and boy did that change over night. Mission accomplished.

I agree Zora, having everyone and their mother coming out of the woodwork to share their half-baked opinion on the topic is very annoying. There is literally no escape from Tracer's posterior. Not even PSOW is safe.

The video I'm about to link is not directed toward you or anyone else bothered by the furor surrounding the topic, they are just wise words that people should consider to ensure these things don't blow up in the first place.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlKao_Pox5A

[Zorafim]

I have to admit, all this talk got me to check out their animation shorts. In typical blizzard fashion, they're pretty good. I have no idea what the game is about, but I was highly entertained for a solid six minutes.

[The Walrus]

literally blizzard tf2

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/nkC6MH3.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
oh hey they showed off the replacement pose. is literally butt pose 2.0

[Zeroem]

.......[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/nkC6MH3.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
oh hey they showed off the replacement pose. is literally butt pose 2.0

I just saw it this morning, and Blizzard actually made the pose better. And still on the same 'spirit' as the original pose.
Basically, nothing changed and actually elevated, in a sense. I'm impressed.

And inb4 another person complain about this pose.

[isCasted]

Blizzard devs are just fucking with their fans
CAAAALLLLLEED IT. (http://i.imgur.com/RGBZSlh.png)

[Akaimizu]

ITT: we bitch about the vocal minority

As long as they pollute the airwaves with constant complaints, it never feels like a minority. It's becoming vocal spam nowadays. Heck, I'm beginning to feel similar to the TC just due to the fact that the yelling about censorship has now become "what flavor of the month can we complain about now". It's become so constant, it basically moves from game to game, every month. And with almost every case, they want to trash a whole company over it.

If it isn't, Bravely Default, it's DOA, if it isn't DOA, it's Fire Emblem, if it isn't Fire Emblem, it's Street Fighter V, if it isn't Street Fighter V, it's Overwatch. I feel the moment Overwatch dies down some more, people will just raise another effigy to burn.

The noise never ceases, and it wouldn't be so bad if they didn't invade *every* forum, *every* YouTube post, and *every* thing completely not related to said game save for the publisher. (And sometimes that isn't even the barrier). They bring it up like some people bring up Politics while you're talking about (for example) Chuck E Cheese and the Beach Boys.

What people fail to understand is that they feel that they are protecting the artist *vision*, when they don't realize that the game industry never fully worked that way. Not outside of Indies. Sure, they pick on sexualization (as seems to be the main thing people complain about what might be toned down), but their heads will absolutely explode if they ever realized how many (often more meaningful) artistic changes happen as something they felt would broaden their audience for a better chance at sales. All kinds of subtle alterations happen, and things get dropped in the process. That's life.

I'm all for the artist's vision, but I also am a bit of a realist in certain ways of the business. There are also times when the censorship may be messier than others, and does cause a bit of a change in how a character is perceived in translation. Nothing super drastic, though. However, if it was drastic, you better believe I would voice disappointment, but I at least use more civil methods to talk about it. But what I also see are changes that don't even take anything of substance away from the game, for which people are putting just as much of a stink about. "Everybody. Flood all the Airwaves! Make 100 Youtube videos on it!! Grab your Pitchforks!!!!! I hope they die!!!"

[Enforcer MKV]

literally blizzard tf2

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/nkC6MH3.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
oh hey they showed off the replacement pose. is literally butt pose 2.0

The pose looks worse now and still shows off the butt. :lol:

Oh MAN, the laugh I got when I first saw it.

[Noblewine]

Zorafin is triggered! =0

[isCasted]

Zorafin is triggered! =0

You are not helping.

[Zorafim]

Should I know what that is?

[The Walrus]

you don't know what being triggered means?

[BIG OLAF]

Someone who doesn't know what being triggered is is my trigger.

http://i.imgur.com/SEX0vgg.gif

[Kondibon]

Should I know what that is?They're being sarcastic, but a "trigger" is in reference to something that "triggers" a mental disorder. For example fireworks are a common trigger for soldiers with PTSD.

It kinda turned into a joke when people started trying to use it for anything that made them uncomfortable or angry, but the actual thing is pretty real.

[Noblewine]

You are not helping.

I'm not? But he's triggered over something he can simply just ignore. Problem solved!

[Scejntjynahl]

Censorship should be done with pragmatism and not voyeurism in mind. It is that simple. I always find it amusing how many plot devices developers will create (sometimes very poorly than others) just to find a reason/excuse to promote T&A of digital females. I have heard/read a plethora of reasoning, it is part of the story, she is evil and thus skanky (lol what a load but lets move on), oh sure she is like a child but is 1000 years old! (btw... a 1000 year old egg... is still an egg), so much so that at the end of of the day those "defenders" wind up saying stuff like "lighten up it is only a game"... ok... only a game... but you just spent hours, if not days, defending what?... digital t&a... if it doesnt matter it shouldnt matter if she is covered up or not. If it is only a game why be so salty at the lack of your digital booty? How is a character not sexing it up ruining the game for you? And if it is ruining the "game" for you... are you actually even playing... or just staring? =/

[SilkaN]

Censorship should be done with pragmatism and not voyeurism in mind. It is that simple. I always find it amusing how many plot devices developers will create (sometimes very poorly than others) just to find a reason/excuse to promote T&A of digital females. I have heard/read a plethora of reasoning, it is part of the story, she is evil and thus skanky (lol what a load but lets move on), oh sure she is like a child but is 1000 years old! (btw... a 1000 year old egg... is still an egg), so much so that at the end of of the day those "defenders" wind up saying stuff like "lighten up it is only a game"... ok... only a game... but you just spent hours, if not days, defending what?... digital t&a... if it doesnt matter it shouldnt matter if she is covered up or not. If it is only a game why be so salty at the lack of your digital booty? How is a character not sexing it up ruining the game for you? And if it is ruining the "game" for you... are you actually even playing... or just staring? =/

Do you really think people ONLY complain about a missing butt once it has been removed? Really?

[jooozek]

one day we all will be neutered

[Zorafim]

God that would make life simpler.

[Scejntjynahl]

Do you really think people ONLY complain about a missing butt once it has been removed? Really?

Honestly, every time I hear an uproar about "censorship" it revolves around one form or the other of T&A... I dont ever recollect an uproar say... about removing the crosses in the earlier games of Castlevania... but on noes give a Succubus a bra and everyone screams MY FREEDOM!!!! pfft.

[Powder Keg]

The shit that occurred during all of this was pretty insane.

I mean, at the end of the day the company can do whatever the hell it wants to it's own product. People can argue all day and all night about this that and the other thing, I think they're just trying to silence any influence that's against what they believe in (both sides)

This is why all that mess happened with the Nintendo employee who was conveniently canned after some questionable articles of hers were brought to light. Personally I believe what someone does/says outside of their job is their own business, particularly if it's only a belief and not an act, but at the same time this person used their status from their work to push their agenda. There are "social justice warriors" on both ends of the argument. Above all else, I'm kinda disgusted that people today are more disgusted by words and views moreso than actions.

[SilkaN]

Honestly, every time I hear an uproar about "censorship" it revolves around one form or the other of T&A... I dont ever recollect an uproar say... about removing the crosses in the earlier games of Castlevania... but on noes give a Succubus a bra and everyone screams MY FREEDOM!!!! pfft.


Tbh I think that most of the people are just sick of hearing stupid news about feminism, social justice and politically correctness and don't want any of this in their video games. Games exist to forget reality for a couple of hours and have some fun, not to remind us of all the non-issues people are offended about.

Bringing up one or multiple problems in a clever way is always interesting, but when they are shoved down our throats like in the new Baldur's Gate expansion, people have every right to get angry.

[jooozek]

The shit that occurred during all of this was pretty insane.

I mean, at the end of the day the company can do whatever the hell it wants to it's own product. People can argue all day and all night about this that and the other thing, I think they're just trying to silence any influence that's against what they believe in (both sides)

This is why all that mess happened with the Nintendo employee who was conveniently canned after some questionable articles of hers were brought to light. Personally I believe what someone does/says outside of their job is their own business, particularly if it's only a belief and not an act, but at the same time this person used their status from their work to push their agenda. There are "social justice warriors" on both ends of the argument. Above all else, I'm kinda disgusted that people today are more disgusted by words and views moreso than actions.

lol

she was canned because she was found to have a second job of being a an escort looking for "sugar daddies" quoting her website :wacko: real good PR for nintendo :wacko: very family outlook :wacko:

[Zorafim]

Hey, remember that time when Nintendo made games where the title screens had corpses? Or where their levels took place in torture chambers? Or their stories had plots of genocide and incest?
What happened to that?


Tbh I think that most of the people are just sick of hearing stupid news about feminism, social justice and politically correctness and don't want any of this in their video games.

This is pretty much me. I don't care whether horrible monster in front of me is wearing a bra, or if one optional outfit has more cloth on it than it could. I'd rather the artists be able to express themselves however they want, but in the end I just want to whip vampires and shoot robots, and find new games where I can repeat these actions. Being told that one character will no longer occasionally spank herself or one victory pose will be changed does not make my day any better.

[SilkaN]

I'd rather the artists be able to express themselves however they want, but in the end I just want to whip vampires and shoot robots

I think that accepting anything they throw at us just for the sake of "playing some games" isn't the best solution. We should be vocal if something we don't like invades our hobby.
Of course, there are people who immediately go overboard and scream censorship (for example the Tracer controversy, even though Blizzard could've handled it much better), but I wouldn't just simply blame them for being passionate about their hobby. After all, they only really popped up because of all the controversies about radical feminism and the regressive left. Most of them, at least.

[Zorafim]

Here, freaking, thank you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmLkVtqjf1A

This goes over why the Overwatch thing is ridiculous, as well as being honestly enlightening. It goes over pose design, and how it conveys information about the current action and the character, and why that is critical for this discussion.
Seeing this was so satisfying for me.