Why is Megatsu generally considered to be 'disappointing'?

[NephyrisX]

Since I wasn't here during EP3 and the subsequent EQ with Megatsu, can someone inform me why is he considered to be 'disappointing'?

[AlphaBlob]

Probably because it used to be not scheduled only and no run limit, and ever since Sega changed it, all new EQ since has been scheduled only with run limit.

[silo1991]

just because this is the only raid boss which is possible to lose , along with TD4 demise

and losing with a serious fight

[SteveCZ]

I don't find it disappointing though.
But some people don't really enjoy a DPS only boss and the fact stated by AlphaBlob.

[HentaiLolicon]

it gibs ~100cubes, sounds good enough for me

[Zysets]

It's not one of the better fights, but at least to me it's one of the most fun.
I can't explain why it is, but it's exciting to me, and at this point, that's all I'm looking for in this game anymore.

[Tunga]

No other EQ even came close to giving as much excubes as pre-nerf Magatsu. Sure it was nice getting mountains of excubes but it was clearly broken and in need of a nerf. And when they did nerf they punished players for farming him, gave him ice resist to cancel iibarta chains, HP nerf, reduced the rewards for SH and they made him into a scheduled EQ only. (imho) Limiting runs should've been enough instead of doing that + limiting him to a schedule only quest. His design is basically hit the big red circle in his belly to dps because if you try to play like intended you will: Clip through him, Lag right off the platform, Sometime get launched of a platform for some reason, most classes have a hard time breaking faces to get platforms, etc.

In-short: Sega basically created an excube farming simulator and punished players for doing just that.

[pkemr4]

because parser made it a who can stack the highest dps run

[isCasted]

Lag, teleportation, falling off platforms.

[D-Inferno]

Dies too fasts; requires the gate to break to see some of it's content (fake-Kuronites). And what others said. Overall, a gigantic failure of game design.

[wefwq]

Maybe because of the adjustemnts made by SEGA?
Personally i liked Magatsu fight, even until now minus the teleport lag though.

[Tenlade]

Dies too fasts; requires the gate to break to see some of it's content (fake-Kuronites). And what others said. Overall, a gigantic failure of game design.

it lasted to the end and even some mpas lost even in the highest difficulties, back when it first came out. Of course now everyone has 13*s so its lucky if it manages to get past the first gate.

and yeah everyone complains if its too easy but if there's even a hint of an mpa losing any emergency quest, it immediately starts losing players which triggers a chain reaction. throw in a run limit and if they even think the run will take too long they'll drop out.

[SteveCZ]

Magatsu can be fun if you create a new character and play in a pub H / VH MPA, filled with new player and players with low level who don't even have the skill tree yet for him/her to do anything. Chaos. :D

[echofaith10]

Meh, the battle itself for me is boring because is only a DPS race, just spamming your attacks and with some occasional dodging and climbing. And even at that, is an annoying race because of the teleporting and clipping.
Then there is also the pressure of relying in the mpa to finish all 4 runs in time (and not fail the 2nd part).

You can argue that doing EQs in general is a chore in order to get rocks, but for me this is the biggest chore of all EQs right now. Thankfully cubes can be gotten in several ways, so I can often skip this eq without regret.

[Z-0]

Also disappointing because AIS Magatsu is just flat-out boring. AIS vs. raid-boss is just simply not fun, especially since Z-Axis control on AIS is piss-poor.

[jooozek]

because it doesn't really fight back, people only leave if the DPS is garbage

[Keilyn]

SEGA wants to validate that their content is good, so of course they control what players can find and get. This is the same as working a job. If you run Profound Darkness during those EQ times, we can get data for our shareholders that our game is EPIC because its populated at the times the "best" and "latest" events are being held. In exchange we will pay you 6 Stones. If you choose to not run it, you get nothing for not helping us.

Its amazing how deep SEGA actually is when it comes to using their own social culture to condition their own people (and many others) to their will. It creates populations of people who will eat, breathe, and sleep PSO, and regardless how many failures SEGA commits, the conditioned will continue to give them their money and support.

Some people call it Love.
Medical Science and Psychology call it "Addiction"

Stages:

Experimentation - People try PSO2 and feel its an ok game as the game does a stellar job of making it nice to new players and new characters. These new players are more in tune with their previous game or real life conversations and being more human and open.

Social/Regular Use - People grow into the game and perhaps find a guild. Conversations shift away from the real world and begin entering the player's mind in regards to game mechanics and the developer. Players start committing more time to the game as their hope to raise their characters and finally the game becomes common to them.

Abuse/Risky Behavior - Players start sacrificing and exchanging real-world values for in-game values. Conversations about the game, their characters, and the developer become more and more common. Actions of the developer affect psychological and neurological functions such as sleep and judgement, where distortions exist between the world of the game and the real world. More time is devoted to the software and less time is devoted everywhere else as the player gains more and more power.

Dependency/Addiction - The player accepts the world of the game as a higher priority than the real world and in many cases replaces the real world with the game world. Sociological, psychological, neurological and Physical functions become distorted and attuned to retaining or achieving high-standing within the game world and its people. Impairments and Disorders from the Mild to Severe category present themselves in the individual. Complete Loyalty, similar to effects of Stockholm Syndrome present themselves in Social-Addiction Patients. The real world is displaced in conversation as the player is completely consumed by the game world and even can be drawn from response into the Game World through real world action tying the two together from the developer. The gamer loses interests in other games as he or she attempts to find games that play similar in order to continue feeding the addiction.

I've read many psychology books and many medical review books, but I am not a psychologist, nor a physician. What I wrote is based on my knowledge of the category of Long-Term Exposure - Social Addictions. Now imagine if I brought over someone who had a Doctorate in Psychology and a thirty-one year career of it to write on this matter. Such would blow your minds away if you dared to even read over a paragraph without assuming that every psychologist in the world is a Corporate Psychologist.

[TaigaUC]

I don't really understand the context of this thread.
Who is saying it's disappointing?

I know people who find Magatsu really boring.
Some people hate how glitchy the platforms are. It's very easy to fall through them.
I personally enjoy the challenge of trying to play as efficiently as possible.
But if the server is laggy (which is fairly often) it becomes an exercise in frustration.
Lagatsu will keep suddenly teleporting forward large distances, leaving everyone standing on thin air in its wake.

AIS Magatsu is indeed not very interesting.
First two phases are boring, because it's mostly just focusing on the knees and center/head. Also because you have to limit your attacks.
Only the third is okay. You have to fly around and dodge attacks while breaking major faces.
The problem is, people tend to do whatever the hell they want, instead of co-operating and focus-firing.
It also doesn't help that a lot of EN people still don't know that the first two have high resistance to melee, and then ranged.
Apparently, the English patch does not translate the radio operator messages that tell players this. It's not very obvious otherwise.
There also isn't much room for strategy variation during AIS Magatsu. Everyone has to use pretty much the same strategy.

In both regular and AIS Magatsu, if the multi isn't strong enough, you will fail and waste tons of time.
It doesn't matter if you are the strongest player in the galaxy. Very heavy reliance on other players to not suck.
Another major problem is that if there isn't a Weak Bullet, people immediately leave. Weak Bullet is crucial for Magatsu.
If there's more than one Weak Bullet, EN people usually fight over where to place it, and abuse each other.
A bunch of players in general also don't seem to know how to use the AIS.

Magatsu was more exciting when it first came out.
It felt like a battle to stop Magatsu from breaching the final wall.
Now it just feels like a battle to get as many cubes as you can.
That's probably why it's "disappointing".

[Suirano]

I know from my experience that when Magatsu first came out whenever that was, people were failing it left and right. The challenge was trying to be one of the few who could take out that 75 million+ HP he had.

You would get to hear all versions of the theme and then the ECs that came held relevance. Now its just kill before he reaches first gate, if there is no WB, the run is done for the most part. Even with his nerfed HP, that mentality still sticks. It's all runs for excubes rather than any enjoyment in the fight. You aren't viewing Magatsu as some big epic godlike boss, he is a walking excube pinata you are breaking.

I don't really even do him anymore because its not fun. I might do it just to do the AIS vs Magatsu Sai because that can be kinda fun if the MPA is decent. I dunno, I am probably repeating what several have said already. :V

[jooozek]

speaking of actually running magatsu - can't run him when he's scheduled at 3-6 am in my timezone :wacko:

[Selphea]

I associate Maggy with some DJ going "PUT YO' HANDS UP! PUT, PUT YO' HANDS UP!" and doing a laser show.

[Z-0]

You can't expect people to find things enjoyable 1 year later when there's no real challenge to be gotten from it, apart from optimising, which most don't seem to be interested in (for example, you can KO Magatsu in around 30 seconds with the right strategy, feels great accomplishing it).

I only ended up running the TDs later on, because it was always fun to try and push out those extra runs or do it within a certain time -- I certainly don't enjoy "just clearing", I never PUG even though it's easy 2x S-Rank because it's just not fun and I don't care for the stones.

[Achelousaurus]

Default Why is Megatsu generally considered to be 'disappointing'?
Cause being Megatsu is suffering.


Lag, teleportation, falling off platforms.
This.
Also, Megatsu barely has any collision detection so you easily clip through his body in any direction.

The real problem with Magatsu has never been the challenge or lack thereof. It has always been that it is a perfect showcase of Sega's unbelievably bad coding skills and play like an early alpha of a game that doesn't even have a set release date yet.
What makes it even worse that is that you have to do it for the cubes cause if you want any kind of good affixing or grind some 13* you need a ton of them and Magatsu still gives 2-3 times as many as any other EQ (new ones only, old ones still give like 10% of magatsu).
So now we are stuck with a total bs quest that is not fun and incredibly frustrating due to the glitches but cannot be ignored due to the massive rewards.
It's PSO2 in a nutshell, slog through a ton of BS cause at the end there is the reward of something fun.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, there's a lot of incentive to gather cubes. That's not fun either.
It's nice that even if I don't get what I want, I'm still gaining in some way, but I mean...
I'm still not getting what I want after years of doing the same old shit.

The challenge of Magatsu has also steadily decreased with gradual buffs and stronger gear.

[Sora3100]

just because this is the only raid boss which is possible to lose , along with TD4 demise

and losing with a serious fight

..what?
I have not failed a single magatsu run since they added the run limit and other stuff, literally impossible to fail nowadays, always dies before he even reaches the first gate
As for TD4, same deal, haven't really failed it on XH yet

Or am I reading this incorrectly?
You're saying that Magatsu was difficult before he got nerfed? (even then it wasn't really the case, you just had issues with getting on his platforms and magatsu teleporting and whatever)

[Petunia]

Seeing some of the explanations from people who joined PSO2 Post-nerf made me giggle. It's like they know they're meant to dislike it but don't know why.

The main reason people hate Magatsu is because of how they changed the fight from being a Random+Scheduled EQ into just Scheduled and put a cap on how many times you could run the fight.
iirc he was changed to resist ice, but I don't know if that's still a thing. I actually took a break from PSO2 Pre-Magatsu Nerf and didn't come back till PD had just been released so I don't much about the resist. Apparently it was to stop pre-mades from Ilbartaing him to death in mere minutes, forcing you to drag the fight on. Unless you adapted and started bringing Br/Gu's.

Then there's the way the game itself handles lag. The first person to enter a fresh Field is the host, so if that host happens to be a western player then GG, that Magatsu is gonna be teleporting forwards.

That and the resist (which if it still a thing makes no sense cus we literally FREEZE Magatsu's face to the floor) means that a Magatsu run takes longer than it used too, and we're limited to just per EQ because nothing says "Please have fun playing our game" more than telling us how long we can play the game for. :^)

For a few weeks it was this awesome, desperate battle to stop Magatsu before he reached the wall. That huge HP pool he had really made the fight last a long time and made it feel more like a real struggle against a being that might as well be a deity. But then they nerfed his HP big time, along with all the previously mentioned changes, and it turned him from an epic fight into an Excube pinata. This shifted people's mindsets when going in too.
Now it was possible to nuke him down before the first Gate was broken, so this became the norm. No longer did we care about the fight, it was just "nuke him down, grab the rares and retry".

Thats probably why most people are now disappointed with him.
I, for one, still enjoy the fight and find it pretty fun. I still leave groups with no WB or if we haven't even broken both knees by the first corner (or more than 1 face by the time we freeze him) as I still want my 4 runs worth of cubes, but I do enjoy the fight.

[Qualia]

For me, Magatsu just got boring. The EQ was really cool the first few times, but by the time they added the AIS fight, the first phase already felt stale. That, and the numerous already discussed limitations SEGA decided to keep adding to the EQ. During release, the EQ was really cool though, and reminded me a bit of how epic the DF Loser fight was when that released. Too bad none of the new content lately makes me feel the same way; PD felt lackluster, and I feel like Yamato will also be disappointing.

[Keilyn]

Seeing some of the explanations from people who joined PSO2 Post-nerf made me giggle. It's like they know they're meant to dislike it but don't know why.

The main reason people hate Magatsu is because of how they changed the fight from being a Random+Scheduled EQ into just Scheduled and put a cap on how many times you could run the fight.
iirc he was changed to resist ice, but I don't know if that's still a thing. I actually took a break from PSO2 Pre-Magatsu Nerf and didn't come back till PD had just been released so I don't much about the resist. Apparently it was to stop pre-mades from Ilbartaing him to death in mere minutes, forcing you to drag the fight on. Unless you adapted and started bringing Br/Gu's.

Then there's the way the game itself handles lag. The first person to enter a fresh Field is the host, so if that host happens to be a western player then GG, that Magatsu is gonna be teleporting forwards.

That and the resist (which if it still a thing makes no sense cus we literally FREEZE Magatsu's face to the floor) means that a Magatsu run takes longer than it used too, and we're limited to just per EQ because nothing says "Please have fun playing our game" more than telling us how long we can play the game for. :^)

For a few weeks it was this awesome, desperate battle to stop Magatsu before he reached the wall. That huge HP pool he had really made the fight last a long time and made it feel more like a real struggle against a being that might as well be a deity. But then they nerfed his HP big time, along with all the previously mentioned changes, and it turned him from an epic fight into an Excube pinata. This shifted people's mindsets when going in too.
Now it was possible to nuke him down before the first Gate was broken, so this became the norm. No longer did we care about the fight, it was just "nuke him down, grab the rares and retry".

Thats probably why most people are now disappointed with him.
I, for one, still enjoy the fight and find it pretty fun. I still leave groups with no WB or if we haven't even broken both knees by the first corner (or more than 1 face by the time we freeze him) as I still want my 4 runs worth of cubes, but I do enjoy the fight.

I find the biggest problem was putting a limit simply because of the premade parties that are out there. I can play almost any game out there and I won't get punished for actually putting together a premade group and running the content. If a limit exists, there usually is a special reason for it. I can understand the limit on the main boss of the episode.

Sure, premades were able to nuke down a boss and farm excubes...

However, that is the point of a well ran team as well! To be able to actually work together and actually run the content together, meaning the efficiency is there because a team worked to build up to that efficiency. In fact pre-nerf it was one of the few things that a good team truly showed a difference in running..

One of the main reasons why I left this game for a good nine months before returning was because the whole Team Situation was majorly fucked up in this game beyond the scope of other games out there. I was in three teams which claimed to have max member count and as usual, it was under ten people logging in....Joining other teams I usually ask "How often do you actually do planned things together" and the response is usually is "Oh we have fun together" (which is what every damn team tries to sell.... and once I am told the number of people logged in is under 10, I tend to say No.

Final Fantasy XIV has the same problems with Guilds. Thanks to Party Finder, outside of the Hard Mode Raids one does not need a guild to run anything. So most of these guilds are just a social hour waiting to be ran. The sad thing is that the guilds with the largest activity base (leveling players trying to reach endgame) are in the top 5 on each server... most of them breaking down to doing nothing.

It seems this is a recurring problem in Japanese Games, because I play a lot of American and Korean games and I can easily find a competent Guild/Team or whatever things go by, and not be given a speech about how teams or guilds are about being social. If I wanted to be social, I would spend my time on Facebook, Skype, or actually go to a Carnival...

Magatsu Pre-Nerf had teams recruiting at the time for Magatsu as well as the Pre-Nerfed UQs. Who needs a team for any of the Mining Base runs when even on PUGS it hardly fails.

[SteveCZ]

..., so if that host happens to be a western player then GG, that Magatsu is gonna be teleporting forwards.

It's still teleporting regardless of who the host is.

[TaigaUC]

Yes. I'm pretty certain the teleporting happens regardless of area host.
But area host does make things worse.

[FantasyHeaven]

It was fun during the first week when people were failing
Not anymore now that you get 100 cubes every run without even a chance of anything interesting, and the biggest danger when fighting the boss is lagging through the platforms.
I haven't played after the change but managing your inventory for 100 weapons and turning in those cubes became so much of a hassle after the 100th run that I just ended up not even bothering with the boss solely because of that.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, like I said before, when it first came out, it was like, "holy shit we have to stop Magatsu!"
Now it's pretty much "holy shit people suck I won't get my 100 cubes!"

Doesn't help that SEGA only adds something like Magatsu once a year.
After people beat it a few times, of course they're not really going to care about doing it again except for rewards.
That's why they really need to add more fresh, unique experiences.

[Raujinn]

Magatsu is disappointing because it's barely more than a motionless wooden doll that you smack for a while until it dies. Like if Magatsu had _no attacks at all_ it would be almost no different an encounter. The lag-warping and wonky collisions only make a boring fight frustrating.

Like I seriously can't believe most of the responses in here are "it was fun when people failed". Are you serious? The difference between beating Magatsu and failing it are "hit near motionless punching bag for 15 minutes" or "hit near motionless punching bag for less than 15 minutes" (was it 15 minutes to fail? I don't know, its been a long time since I've seen a failed run). The most challenge there was in Magatsu is "work out the bits to break". That was basically it.

The reason it was disappointing was it was a major failure in game design. Magatsu has all the components of an interesting raid fight that just don't quite come together well enough. I'm not experienced enough in game critique to pin down the exact reasons as to why, but I reckon if they had spent a little more time on it people would be remembering it fondly beyond "IT GAVE MORE CUBES WHEN THEY DIDNT LIMIT IT!!".

e: To clarify, yeah I get that the chance to fail adds some spice to the encounter. Right now as things are failing the quest isn't even a thing, making victories against an already dull encounter devoid of meaning. I still argue that that's not the chief reason that Magatsu was a disappointment however.

[Shadowstarkirby]

I'm reading all the responses here and a lot of them are solid reasons why Magatsu is a testament to show that Sega's developers are inept at designing fun and balanced quests, but of all the responses I can't understand are the ones that love the possibility of a quest failing.

Do people really enjoy the possibility of being able to lose that much? Losing a quest in this game is stupidly punishing. I get absolutely no enjoyment out of having my 30 minute schedule quests at the early hours of the morning and late hours of the night when I could be sleeping utterly failing because some jackoffs aren't decently geared or play like idiots. At the time of writing this, I have 10 13*s I'm currently working on, the amount of cubes I'd need to safely max them out is ridiculous. EQs are the only way of getting all those cubes, I couldn't care less if a quest can fail or not in this game, it's not like I can get another shot at quests for the full reward (Magatsu and TDs) until it's too late. It's really not like say, GW2 where if I fail a raid you just lose the time you spent and can try again to perfect a strategy, no, you fail in PSO2, you lose the time you spent and worst case, you don't get to try again, leaving you with nothing until SEGA decides when you get to try again, which could be days.

While I understand completely that game isn't a game if you can't lose at all, I don't exactly see why a quest is bad (or more appropriately, disappointing ITT) just cause you can't lose to it anymore. Like, when Profound Darkness came out, some people bitched how you couldn't lose and I could only think, "Wow, so what?", it's not a bad quest, at least not the Profound Darkness half cause fighting Double is a shitshow for anybody but Forces. The quest was just made as a fun grand finale spectacle, and in my opinion it succeeded in doing that, it really felt epic as far as PSO2 quests go. Yeah, it could've been done without the Arks Boost and Double shouldn't have been absolutely horrible to fight as a melee player, but I liked it for what it was.

Maybe instead of having issues with if a quest can fail or not, maybe have more of an issue if quests have interesting fights that aren't biased towards having Forces flooding the MPA, better mob behaviors, giving bosses a wider array of attacks, mechanics, and Weak Bullet jammer so they aren't so trivial to fight and die in minutes.

Anyway, I went off on a tangent. People probably don't like Magatsu from what I understand is maybe because:

1. He caused a lot of unjust bans due to people killing him too fast or some bullshit.

2. He was the start of the current slew of scheduled only EQ content.

3. He's a laggy clipping asshole.

4. He's a boring DPS check sandbag (I personally have fun fighting him as Gu/Ra though).

5. He's the only boss in which a certain class is required to be present to be finished in a timely matter for the maximum reward of 100 cubes.

6. He's the cause of a mentality shift from playing EQs regardless of cube gain to only playing certain handful quests that only gave a lot (honestly this was probably gonna happen regardless, Magatsu probably just sped up this shift tenfold).

Those are probably all the big ones.

[Tyaph]

For me, its because I already have ~1k cubes stored away and it is pretty much just a cube run for me. There aren't any 13* drops that I can have false hope for and the stones are mildly useless to me. I personally think its time they took certain EQs like Magatsu off the scheduled "only" list and let them occur randomly. Certain scheduled EQs that are more worth doing don't happen enough IMO.

[JCry]

Anga and Magatsu are best girls. anyone who says otherwise is playing pso2 wrong.