Yamato and A.I.S ★13 weapons - Potential List

[Manta Oyamada]

http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/270/1270159/160510pso2dps_85.pdf

打撃力：1591 (ex:インヴェ1591)
潜在：機装の印/PP回復減少＋クリアップ＋ダメ(%/%/10%)


D-A.I.Sブラスター (ランチャー/＋35)
射撃1543 (ex:インヴェ1542)

幻創艦砲甲 (ナックル/＋35)
打撃：1517 (ex:インヴェ1517)
潜在：戦果の勲/エネミー撃破1体毎にダメ1%アップ(上限15%)

三連幻創機銃 (TMG/＋35)
射撃：1472 (ex:インヴェ1472)
潜在：戦果の勲/エネミー撃破1体毎にダメ1%アップ(上限15%)


幻創電探
射撃：法撃力????(NT+35)

『戦果の勲』Lv3
エネミー撃破一体ごとに与ダメージが1%上昇する。上限15%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

セイガーシールド (ワイヤー/＋35)
打撃力：1325 (ex:インヴェ1370)
潜在：勇気の証(7%/9%/11%＋時間HP回復)


セイガージャベリン (パルチ/＋35)
打撃力：1255 (ex:インヴェ1297)
潜在：勇気の証(7%/9%/11%＋時間HP回復)

セイガーブレード (ダブセ/＋35)
打撃：1080 (ex:インヴェ1113)
潜在：勇気の証(7%/9%/11%＋時間HP回復)


セイガーアーチャー (弓/＋35)
射撃：1659 (ex:インヴェ1722)
潜在：勇気の証(7%/9%/11%＋時間HP回復)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

マーセナリシュバルツ (ガンスラ/＋35)
打撃：1185 (ex:インヴェ1223)
潜在：


S.CNマンティス (DB/＋35)
打撃1485 (ex:インヴェ1538 )
潜在：殺心必撃(弱点6%＋クリ時5%/7%/10%)

ワルキューレA30 (AR/＋35)
射撃1360 (ex:インヴェ1407)
潜在：殺心必撃(弱点6%＋クリ時5%/7%/10%)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


ソードレボルシオ (ソード/＋35)
打撃力：1543 (ex:インヴェ1591)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)

ランスレボルシオ (ワイヤー/＋35)
打撃力：1333 (ex:インヴェ1370)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)


スピアレボルシオ (パルチ/＋35)
打撃：1263 (ex:インヴェ1297)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)


スラストレボルシオ (Tダガー/＋35)
打撃：1017 (ex:インヴェ1040)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)


ストームレボルシオ (ダブセ/＋35)
打撃：1088 (ex:インヴェ1113)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)


スパイクレボルシオ (ナックル/＋35)
打撃：1474 (ex:インヴェ1517)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)


スラッシュレボルシオ (ガンスラ/＋35)
打撃：1193 (ex:インヴェ1223)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)


サイカレボルシオ (カタナ/＋35)
打撃：1310 (ex:インヴェ1346)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)


ブレードレボルシオ (DB/＋35)
打撃：1508 (ex:インヴェ1538 )
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)


ショットレボルシオ (AR/＋35)
射撃1383 (ex:インヴェ1407)
潜在：正中必壊(射撃弱点ダメ%/%/9%)


キャノンレボルシオ (ランチャー/＋35)
射撃1498 (ex:インヴェ1542)
潜在：正中必壊(射撃弱点ダメ%/%/9%)


バレットレボルシオ (TMG/＋35)
射撃：1429 (ex:インヴェ1472)
潜在：正中必壊(射撃弱点ダメ%/%/9%)

[sparab]

Sega really enjoys giving critical chance up potentials to non Fi weapons.

[FANSean]

C-Crit Strike rings!

Anyways I'm gonna wait on translations of those, google translate is being completely incomprehensible this time.

[sparab]

Yamato series: 1% damage up per enemy kill, up to 15%
The weapon of choice for raid boss, best used with +0 20 element

AIS series: 10% damage up, crit (chance?) up, pp regain down
A nerfed version of austre/orbit that can only be obtained in 6 weeks

[final_attack]

Revolucio, Seiga, and other Tokyo-based weapons is included in there though.
Here, grouped. Not sure if Gunslash is in Tokyo-based or not.

AIS Series
[SPOILER-BOX]AIS-Sword (D-A.I.S Saber)
D-A.I.Sセイバー (ソード/＋35)
打撃力：1591 (ex:インヴェ1591)
潜在：機装の印/PP回復減少＋クリアップ＋ダメ(%/%/10%)

AIS-Launcher (D-A.I.S Blaster)
D-A.I.Sブラスター (ランチャー/＋35)
射撃1543 (ex:インヴェ1542)[/SPOILER-BOX]
Yamato-Series
[SPOILER-BOX]Yamato-Knuckle
幻創艦砲甲 (ナックル/＋35)
打撃：1517 (ex:インヴェ1517)
潜在：戦果の勲/エネミー撃破1体毎にダメ1%アップ(上限15%)

Yamato-Tmg
三連幻創機銃 (TMG/＋35)
射撃：1472 (ex:インヴェ1472)
潜在：戦果の勲/エネミー撃破1体毎にダメ1%アップ(上限15%)[/SPOILER-BOX]

Seiga Series
[SPOILER-BOX]Seiga-WL (Seiga Shield)
セイガーシールド (ワイヤー/＋35)
打撃力：1325 (ex:インヴェ1370)
潜在：勇気の証(7%/9%/11%＋時間HP回復)

Seiga-Partizan (Seiga Javelin)
セイガージャベリン (パルチ/＋35)
打撃力：1255 (ex:インヴェ1297)
潜在：勇気の証(7%/9%/11%＋時間HP回復)

Seiga-DS (Seiga Blade)
セイガーブレード (ダブセ/＋35)
打撃：1080 (ex:インヴェ1113)
潜在：勇気の証(7%/9%/11%＋時間HP回復)

Seiga-Bow (Seiga Archer)
セイガーアーチャー (弓/＋35)
射撃：1659 (ex:インヴェ1722)
潜在：勇気の証(7%/9%/11%＋時間HP回復)[/SPOILER-BOX]

Tokyo-(other than Seiga series?) HFB / S.CN / Walkure
[SPOILER-BOX]Tokyo(?)-Gunslash (Mercenary-something? Mercenary Schwartz maybe, if the google translate is correct on シュバルツ part)
マーセナリシュバルツ (ガンスラ/＋35)
打撃：1185 (ex:インヴェ1223)
潜在：

Tokyo-DB (S.CN Mantis)
S.CNマンティス (DB/＋35)
打撃1485 (ex:インヴェ1538 )
潜在：殺心必撃(弱点6%＋クリ時5%/7%/10%)

Tokyo-Riflle (Walkure-A30)
ワルキューレA30 (AR/＋35)
射撃1360 (ex:インヴェ1407)
潜在：殺心必撃(弱点6%＋クリ時5%/7%/10%)[/SPOILER-BOX]

Revolucio Series
[SPOILER-BOX]Revolucio-Sword
ソードレボルシオ (ソード/＋35)
打撃力：1543 (ex:インヴェ1591)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)

Revolucio-WL
ランスレボルシオ (ワイヤー/＋35)
打撃力：1333 (ex:インヴェ1370)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)

Revolucio-Partizan
スピアレボルシオ (パルチ/＋35)
打撃：1263 (ex:インヴェ1297)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)

Revolucio-Dagger
スラストレボルシオ (Tダガー/＋35)
打撃：1017 (ex:インヴェ1040)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)

Revolucio-DS
ストームレボルシオ (ダブセ/＋35)
打撃：1088 (ex:インヴェ1113)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)

Revolucio-Knuckle
スパイクレボルシオ (ナックル/＋35)
打撃：1474 (ex:インヴェ1517)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)

Revolucio-Gunslash
スラッシュレボルシオ (ガンスラ/＋35)
打撃：1193 (ex:インヴェ1223)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)

Revolucio-Katana
サイカレボルシオ (カタナ/＋35)
打撃：1310 (ex:インヴェ1346)
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)

Revolucio DB
ブレードレボルシオ (DB/＋35)
打撃：1508 (ex:インヴェ1538 )
潜在：刹那の決撃(JA%/%/8%)

Revolucio-Rifle
ショットレボルシオ (AR/＋35)
射撃1383 (ex:インヴェ1407)
潜在：正中必壊(射撃弱点ダメ%/%/9%)

Revolucio-Launcher
キャノンレボルシオ (ランチャー/＋35)
射撃1498 (ex:インヴェ1542)
潜在：正中必壊(射撃弱点ダメ%/%/9%)

Revolucio-Tmg
バレットレボルシオ (TMG/＋35)
射撃：1429 (ex:インヴェ1472)
潜在：正中必壊(射撃弱点ダメ%/%/9%)[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Kondibon]

AIS series: 10% damage up, crit (chance?) up, pp regain down
A nerfed version of austre/orbit that can only be obtained in 6 weeksAll of the collection 13*s have been drops too so far, there's no reason to think these won't either. That said, I do think the fact that all the collections are time limited is kinda lame.

[TheszNuts]

Yamato series: 1% damage up per enemy kill, up to 15%
The weapon of choice for raid boss, best used with +0 20 element

How is this for raid boss? This implies a reset count on quest start which means 0% on EQs such as PD.

[Kondibon]

How is this for raid boss? This implies a reset count on quest start which means 0% on EQs such as PD.I'm pretty sure that post is sarcasm based on the rest of it.

[sparab]

How is this for raid boss? This implies a reset count on quest start which means 0% on EQs such as PD.

But kankore weapons are so badass they musst be good, like my ideal units!

[hoangsea]

brilliant !!!
fk those new weapon, orbit and aus are 10 times better
i hope for smt better than this, you dissapoited me SEGAAAAA !

[Tunga]

Yamato series: 1% damage up per enemy kill, up to 15%


So basically near useless in a 12 man mpa too.

[matt4394]

brilliant !!!
fk those new weapon, orbit and aus are 10 times better
i hope for smt better than this, you dissapoited me SEGAAAAA !

Pro tip: SEGA doesn't care what you think.

[Xaelouse]

Make weapons that are better than orbit/aus now and people will complain all their hard work and multi-shipping went to waste.
Right now they're just gearing new players up and old players that want to try other classes/make rainbow weapons quickly with the collect file system. Any weapon that's on the same tier as Ares or above is simply overkill for the game, anyway.

[SteveCZ]

Make weapons that are better than orbit/aus now and people will complain all their hard work and multi-shipping went to waste.
Right now they're just gearing new players up and old players that want to try other classes/make rainbow weapons quickly with the collect file system. Any weapon that's on the same tier as Ares or above is simply overkill for the game, anyway.

Agree. :roll:

[Achelousaurus]

So basically near useless in a 12 man mpa too.
Useless almost everywhere. Where do you find 16+ enemies so close you can kill 15 within a couple of seconds of each other and start fighting the 16th?
incredibly situational and then a mere 15% max.


Make weapons that are better than orbit/aus now and people will complain all their hard work and multi-shipping went to waste.
Right now they're just gearing new players up and old players that want to try other classes/make rainbow weapons quickly with the collect file system. Any weapon that's on the same tier as Ares or above is simply overkill for the game, anyway.
True, but that is precisely why we got Revolucio and Tagami. Revolucio is like 1% weaker than ares at full pb and Tagami is similar as well Both are good but lose to orbit and austere.
These new weapons are all utterly worthless.

These new potentials are beyond pathetic. Revolucio did something great, reviving a decent old potential. Would have wanted a stronger version cause it's 2 rarities higher but it works quite well.

Now Sega went back to the BS of adding new potentials just so they are new and not giving a single fuckign thought about usefulness.

Sega once again took the wrong way instead of doing the simple thing, needing almost no effort but still giving people what they want.
Like, for melee all they need is a next tier stance boost potential.

PS: I'm really disappointed cause even though I upgraded sword recently, I would have gotten the AIS sword if it was good. But now there is no point whatsoever.

[Gwyndolin]

The potentials on these new weapons are rather disappointing. Looks like I'll be sticking to orbit/austere until who knows when.

[MightyHarken]

what's the pot in the AIS rifle and launcher?

[Tunga]

Useless almost everywhere. Where do you find 16+ enemies so close you can kill 15 within a couple of seconds of each other and start fighting the 16th?
incredibly situational and then a mere 15% max.


It only resets on Quest restart, no? Still getting the kill(x15) with 12 people for the potential to work is ridiculous. Solo is somewhat bearable i guess.

[MightyHarken]

Very very dissapointed in these weapons, what are they thinking with these pots? AIS not only gives a crap damage boost but it also nerfs your pp regen, gg

[Bellion]

I think you just have to be in range for the kill for it to count towards the potential; not having to deliver the final blow yourself.

Someone will test the waters when the update drops, so wait and see. It'll be guaranteed to be horrible for boss EQs, that's all.

[Nyansan]

Was planning on getting the AIS sword but seeing how ass the potential is I'm getting Orbit instead

[NightfallG]

See, the problem is they spoiled us; you start us off with Ares, Austere and Orbit and everything else is just turbo trash.

Though I will say, if anemic shit like this is their new gold standard, I don't have high hopes for the FF14 collab.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Useless almost everywhere. Where do you find 16+ enemies so close you can kill 15 within a couple of seconds of each other and start fighting the 16th?
incredibly situational and then a mere 15% max.


I'm also fairly certain that the kill counter will reset when you change areas.

If so, it'll be bad for free field explore that lead into a boss area, aka, all of them.

[Keilyn]

I am one who considers Austere to be Garbage. I prefer Ideal Weapons... ^_^

[sparab]

Reminded me when 10200 ideal weapon and 5s original affix ideal units were PUG meta

...and still is!

[NephyrisX]

Are people really asking Collection weapons to have potentials far better than Austere/Orbit weapons?

SEGA can be criticised for many things. Not making easier-to-obtain, non-schedule-limited power creep weapons is not one of them.

[MightyHarken]

No one wants them to be better, I just wanted them to have almost as good dps + some versatility like seiga or orbit weapons

[Keilyn]

Reminded me when 10200 ideal weapon and 5s original affix ideal units were PUG meta

...and still is!
Is your order different? As in a +10, 20% element weapon with no potential unlocked? I am used to 10360. I actually do not put anything in my weapon pallete unless its at least 10140. That is as low as I will go.

Only time I go below 40% element is when I am testing something like the Knuckles I got the other day. There are potentials that are killer, for example.... I have a 51% Serafi Daggers which are Fire Element. I also have a Nagel Banther Crafted Twin Dagger. Against Natives, the 10051 weapon was comparable to a Nagel Banther Fire Twin Dagger at 10350 w/ race slaying potential (+20% vs native). Once I brought the Serafi Daggers to 10151. The Damage different was around 7.5% and once its 60% element it will be even higher.

However, I had to actually raise a 13* weapon to 10150 or 10160 to actually have a significant difference. I don't like marginal increases as they are a waste of time, energy, and resources. In short, the difference between a crafted 8* twin dagger and a 13* twin dagger at 10151 was +7.5% vs natives..

1.6/1.51 = 1.059
1.059 * 1.075 = 1.138% (once I get it to 60% element)

Now I just have to affix these decently too, and I can use these daggers against all fire, replacing my Nagel Banthers... However, against Natives even the first set of 13* did not win against its native slaying ability or versatility... and I only use Fire weapons in Lillipa UQ or Forest.

In my opinion, 13* weapons are useless unless they are at least 10140....and unless I am testing them out, I really wont rely or use them much....until they are 50 - 60% Element...

[sparab]

1060(50)3 is what JP used to describe a fully upgrade weapon. I have seen many players with +10 60 element *13 with no potential, which makes me wonder if they don't know how the potential system works.

NT weapons solved such issue as you are forced to unlock potentials during upgrade process. But NT10200 is a thing.

[Tunga]

I am one who considers Austere to be Garbage. I prefer Ideal Weapons... ^_^

I prefer Ideal rifle myself simply because it was 1000x easier to get. Austere still stops tho.

[ArcaneTechs]

I am one who considers Austere to be Garbage. I prefer Ideal Weapons... ^_^
In terms of stats, majority of them are top still. In Terms of getting them (calig) ya, its a bit garbage outside multi-shipping but Yes to your question

[[Ayumi]]

I'm 10000000% fine with this.
I thought the AIS and Yamato weapons looked very meh and uninteresting.
Now their portentials match their looks. Thanks Sega. Think I will do the Yamato EQ once and never touch it again after that... just to see how it is and all.

[lunamaniac]

Seems like some of these new 13*s could have a niche. They look visually interesting.

No complaints, it's much better than new 13*s just being linear upgrades.

[Shinamori]

I can see the Yamato weapon being niche in TDs.

[MightyHarken]

It would be kind of cool if sega added nerfs and buffs to all 13* weapons, that would actually make them interesting lol

[MightyHarken]

Still no info on the AIS rifle though, anyone know's what's up?

[Sirius-91]

Here's the full list of percents of the AIS weapons pulled from es.

機装の印 Lv.1 - ＰＰの回復効果が減少し クリティカル性能と 与ダメージが5%上昇。
機装の印 Lv.2 - ＰＰの回復効果が減少し クリティカル性能と 与ダメージが7%上昇。
機装の印 Lv.3 - ＰＰの回復効果が減少し クリティカル性能と 与ダメージが10%上昇。

And here's yamato's full percents.

戦果の勲 Lv.1 - エネミー撃破1体毎に 与ダメージが0.2％ 上昇する。上限15％。
戦果の勲 Lv.2 - エネミー撃破1体毎に 与ダメージが0.25％ 上昇する。上限15％。
戦果の勲 Lv.3 - エネミー撃破1体毎に 与ダメージが1％ 上昇する。上限15％。

[MightyHarken]

Here's the full list of percents of the AIS weapons pulled from es.

機装の印 Lv.1 - ＰＰの回復効果が減少し クリティカル性能と 与ダメージが5%上昇。
機装の印 Lv.2 - ＰＰの回復効果が減少し クリティカル性能と 与ダメージが7%上昇。
機装の印 Lv.3 - ＰＰの回復効果が減少し クリティカル性能と 与ダメージが10%上昇。

And here's yamato's full percents.

戦果の勲 Lv.1 - エネミー撃破1体毎に 与ダメージが0.2％ 上昇する。上限15％。
戦果の勲 Lv.2 - エネミー撃破1体毎に 与ダメージが0.25％ 上昇する。上限15％。
戦果の勲 Lv.3 - エネミー撃破1体毎に 与ダメージが1％ 上昇する。上限15％。

That's in japanese though, I translated it using google, but it says this: Recovery effect a reduction in the 10% rise the damage given to the critical performance.

Does this mean that it will only give 10% damage on critical hits? if that's the case, this is the worst weapon potential in history

[Kole]

huh, that's rather lazy - you only put the potential for the AIS weps under the sword one, and didn't list the rifle.

And MAN what a let down for the AIS weapons. (you'd think if you were basing weapons off the strongest things in pso2, they'd be better)

[MightyHarken]

huh, that's rather lazy - you only put the potential for the AIS weps under the sword one, and didn't list the rifle.

I assume they all have the same potential. But I want to make sure if it gives 10% damage and 10% critical chance, or if it's 10% critical damage

[Sirius-91]

I assume they all have the same potential. But I want to make sure if it gives 10% damage and 10% critical chance, or if it's 10% critical damage

They're all the same potential.

[MightyHarken]

They're all the same potential.

can you confirm my question though? that really scares me lol..

[Alenoir]

That's in japanese though, I translated it using google, but it says this: Recovery effect a reduction in the 10% rise the damage given to the critical performance.

Does this mean that it will only give 10% damage on critical hits? if that's the case, this is the worst weapon potential in history

ＰＰの回復効果が減少しクリティカル性能 と 与ダメージが10%上昇。

"Reduces the PP regeneration rate while increasing the critical (performance, so rate?) and damage by 10%."

It could mean something else completely different in some crazy way, but that's how I read it as.

[MightyHarken]

ＰＰの回復効果が減少しクリティカル性能 と 与ダメージが10%上昇。

"Reduces the PP regeneration rate while increasing the critical (performance, so rate?) and damage by 10%."

It could mean something else completely different in some crazy way, but that's how I read it as.

Thank you for confirming!, so there's that. AIS rifle is the 3rd strongest rifle in the game, a fine choice of weapon if you're not killing bosses.

[Xaeris]

Unimpressive, but I'm perfectly fine with sidegrades for a while. We're OP as hell as it is, we don't need any more help in that department, at least until a new difficulty.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Unimpressive, but I'm perfectly fine with sidegrades for a while. We're OP as hell as it is, we don't need any more help in that department, at least until a new difficulty.

I like less reasons to spend money on upgrades as well. I'd like austere to be the best for at least another 6 months.

[Keilyn]

@Tunga & @ Kril

The feelings I have about Austere is that most of us get Ideal Weapons first, or something to cover the slot until we put in what is considered to be BiS (Best in Slot). My problem with Austere is that if we Upgrade from Ideal, it means actually lessening the damage one does vs Bosses. In my case I use Ideal Units and I like both set bonuses...

The garbage factor behind Austere to me is that I feel the reason one gets Austere given this situation is to actually become better at mobbing and slightly worse against bosses. My build specifically uses certain weapons for Mobbing and certain Weapons for Bossing. This means a Potential like Austere that is "damage vs everything" makes me feel kind of "All Purpose" which there is nothing wrong with that until we meet precision and specifics.

The second Garbage Factor is what it takes to get an Austere in the first place and raise it. On a side-note....First time seeing an 80K hit against a boss using Wand Reactor thanks to Weak Bullet..... Not bad for a Crafted 10* weapon vs a Level 80 Boss. Of course, I am sure anyone else out there can just hit the bosses for 6 - 7 digit numbers and kill them. I rather actually stand and fight.

SHAQ Forest +50 (LvL. 80 enemies)
http://www.smashmybrain.com/pso2ss/shaqforestmaxrisk.png

[Tunga]

^ Uh Austere is stronger than Ideal everywhere, and even with units i doubt Ideal wins. The garbage factor to austere is getting one. I only got one austere to 60% (Fire DBs) and I've been skipping EQ ever since. I really wanted a light rod too but meh, f*ck doing XQ again. I may get revolution rod if i ever get the motivation.

[Selphea]

^ Uh Austere is stronger than Ideal everywhere, and even with units i doubt Ideal wins. The garbage factor to austere is getting one. I only got one austere to 60% (Fire DBs) and I've been skipping EQ ever since. I really wanted a light rod too but meh, f*ck doing XQ again. I may get revolution rod if i ever get the motivation.

Depends on weapon. Low ATK weapons like Twin Daggers, Ideal comes ahead because Austere ATK is only a tiny bit higher. High ATK weapons like Knuckles where the difference is a few hundred, Austere wins.

The difference is very small either way though.

[Tunga]

Every Ideal is around 3% weaker than austere. Unless you meant with ideal set mixed in then idk.

[Flaoc]

@Tunga & @ Kril
My problem with Austere is that if we Upgrade from Ideal, it means actually lessening the damage one does vs Bosses.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

[NightlightPro]

so in the end austere is still the OP one

[Selphea]

Every Ideal is around 3% weaker than austere. Unless you meant with ideal set mixed in then idk.

Set + LB + Shifta + Drink @ ~5000 ATK or so.

Realistically people aren't going to be Random Drinking for Weak Drink across 4 Maggys.

[Hrith]

Yamato weapons could be decent depending on how the potential works. Does the 15% bonus stay active until you change weapons, load a new area?

AIS weapons look quite bad...

Glad to see the four new Seiga weapons will have the same potential as the sword and launcher - definitely getting the double sabre.

[sparab]

Yamato potential may be useful but the weapon choices are poor.
Knuckle is not the best for mobbing, TMG limits the use of WB, rod...still can't beat talis

[kurokyosuke]

ＰＰの回復効果が減少しクリティカル性能 と 与ダメージが10%上昇。

"Reduces the PP regeneration rate while increasing the critical (performance, so rate?) and damage by 10%."

It could mean something else completely different in some crazy way, but that's how I read it as.

The "performance" part is confusing Japanese people, too. The damage boost is separate from the critical performance, so people are wondering if it means critical rate, damage, or possibly both.
It's pretty good if you get the rifle, since the Orbit launcher can offset the reduced PP recovery.

[Tunga]

Set + LB + Shifta + Drink @ ~5000 ATK or so.

Realistically people aren't going to be Random Drinking for Weak Drink across 4 Maggys.

Can a FI even reach 5000 atk?
I don't play/like Fi enough to know

[Keilyn]

Every Ideal is around 3% weaker than austere. Unless you meant with ideal set mixed in then idk.

Stats: Female Newman Fi/Te w/o skill tree considerations or affixes:
712 + 200 (Pure Mag) + 75 (Ideal Set Bonus)

Ideal Dagger: 989 + 75 + 917 = 1981; 1981 * 1.18 = 2337
Austere Dagger: 989 + 1069 = 2058; 2058 * 1.12 = 2304

This assumes with 0 Affixes on Both Weapons, the +75 is the second set bonus from Ideal Units that also adds +75.

Differences: 2337/2304 = 1.014
Ideal Dagger is 1.4% stronger vs bosses.

Differences: 2304/2337 = 0.9858
Austere does 98.58% of the damage that Ideal does on Bosses.

Note: This does not consider the +120 ATP from Combined Class Masteries.
Note: As we attempt to affix both weapons, the increased power will widen the between Ideal and Austere vs Bosses simply because of the difference in percentages.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me consider Saiki itself along with Both Weapons. Saiki is also a set I use and its a favored set. So posting without at least including the Math for Saiki would be strange.

Female Newman Fi/Te Base: 712 + 200 (pure mag) + 60 (Saiki Set Bonus)

Ideal Dagger: 972 + 917 = 1889; 1889 * 1.18 = 2229
Austere Dagger: 972 + 1069 = 2041; 2041 * 1.12 = 2285

Differences: 2229/2285 = 0.9754
Ideal Dagger inflicts 97.5% of the damage that Austere inflicts vs Bosses.

Differences: 2285/2229 = 1.025
Austere Dagger Inflicts +2.5% vs Bosses.

Now Lets Consider what happens when Ideal and Austere on Saiki is worn by a player who has total class mastery and gains the +120 Attack Power.

Ideal Dagger: 972 + 917 + 120 = 2009; 2009 * 1.18 = 2370.62
Austere Dagger: 972 + 1069 + 120 = 2161 * 1.12 = 2420.32

Differences: 2420.32/2370.62 = 1.020
Austere is still stronger,

but notice what actually happened....Instead of it being a 2.5% difference, the lead narrowed to 2% on Saiki. What if you tried Affixing to gain +600, +150 on each Unit and +150 on the weapon while retaining Class Masteries... Where would we be?

Ideal Dagger: 2609 * 1.18 = 3078
Austere Dagger: 2761 * 1.12 = 3092

Differences: 3092/3078 = 1.0045
In short, its less than One-Half of 1% stronger at endgame.

I will now add in the Five points to "Striking up 1" (+18 S-ATK) and the one point on Rare Weapon Mastery (+30 S-ATK) since both weapons are over 10*. I chose five points because that is what I need to use Limit Break.

Ideal Dagger: 2609 + 48 = 2657; 2657 * 1.18 = 3135.26
Austere Dagger: 2761 +48 = 2809; 2809 * 1.12 = 3146.08

Differences: 3146.08/3135.26 = 1.0034

Now Lets take Shifta itself. It was PSO-W that did tests on Shifta to figure out that it takes Shifta Level, Skill Tree, Mag into account with a character's base attribute. Shifta does not affect Stats gained from Weapons and Units. 712 (base Fi/Te stats on Newearl) + 200 (Pure S-ATK mag) + 48 (Striking Up 1 at Level 5 + Rare Weapon Mastery at Level 1) = 960. Level 17 Shifta is 19.7% (If I am wrong, let me know)...

960 * 1.197 = 1149.12; 1149.12 - 960 = 189.12

Of course I can also do

960 * 0.197 = 189.12 (as I want the difference to add to both values)

Ideal Dagger: 2657 + 189.12 = 2846.12; 2846.12 * 1.18 = 3358.4216
Austere Dagger: 2809 + 189.12 = 2998.12; 2998.12 * 1.12 = 3357.8944

Differences: Ideal has caught up and taken the lead due to its potential percentage.

Note: We still have the tree buff as well as the Shifta Drink itself and Timed Abilities (if we really want to go that far). Also, we have found our closest point to Equilibrium between 12% from Austere and 18% from Ideal on Saiki Armor.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What does this all mean?

If we took a Hardcore player who fully affixed Units and Weapon on Ideal Weapons, at the end of it all, Ideal would match (and even overtake by residual damage) vs Austere when it comes to Fighting Bosses....

If two players aren't affixed and are using SAIKI Armor, the first example shows the 2.5% difference, along with the 2% Difference (determined by whether the player has Class Masteries or not...) but who goes through the trouble of getting Austere without thinking on Affixes?

This brings me back to the point I made about Austere itself as a weapon...

Throughout this MATH JOURNEY, we kept on getting closer and closer on a narrowing range because of two percentages, 12% vs All, and 18% vs bosses. Our power kept on increasing from starting with 0 Affixes and nothing on a Skill Tree all the way up to minimum on a skill tree, fully affixed gear and skill tree, aided by shifta. We went from PUG to Powerhouse....

All of these gains in attack power are there to the point that we can annihilate trash-mobs left and right without the need of the 12% potential. On my Fi/Te, I am already doing that without heavy affixes on my Wands or just the basic Ideal Unit Affixes. For the experienced player, trash mobs aren't a real problem. At least for Fighter/Techer, mobbing is not a problem or an issue at all.......especially with my crafted wands.

It should be noted that a Queen Viera Gunslash using Kreisenschlag is extremely effective vs level 80 trash mobs. I use Gunslash and Wands under different enemy types and environments when mobbing. Zondeel does not work on everything you know. ;) ...and that +80% PP Recovery potential is amazing in Gun Mode that combined with PP Restorate and TAJA PP Save, not only is the damage increased, but I can stay in the air indefinitely with that gunslash....and its T-ATK at 1100 means I can be a lot closer to what I wanted to achieve with Fi/Te... being a Hunewearl like PSO-1.

Queen Viera is a much better recovery option than the 10% Austere Potential on Recovery. I will go on to say that Austere is good on Force and I would gladly use an Austere Rod or Austere Talis since we can Charge Techs and Recover PP. All other classes have your recovery rate reduced to 0 while using PAs...

The other point to consider about weapons is that not all weapons are made Equal. Some weapons are amazing at bossing, but LOUSY at Mobbing. Other weapons are great at mobbing, but not as effective vs bosses. This hurts Austere because the potential is universal....

The same is true for my daggers of serafi. The potential itself works as long as my health is above 30%, but I don't mob with daggers which means that I am better raising an Ideal Dagger to 60% and then turning it to Fire in order to boss with because I use daggers for bossing...but my god.. the PSU nostalgia is there... :) I love the design of the daggers.

--------------------------------------------------

My Stance with Austere

Austere is Garbage because
~At the point in the game we can annihilate trash mobs in our sleep on what we have already. Even Ideal weapons with +0% damage vs Mobs annihilates them, what does that say about Austere's Potential? It says its useless...
~Under Saiki, at Endgame under full affixes and Shifta, Ideal Daggers surpasses in residual amounts Austere vs Bosses. Residual meaning 1% or below.
~Under Ideal Armor, Ideal surpasses Austere vs bosses.
~Obtaining Austere is a Hardship and feels more like a Prestige Weapon...
~The 10% PP Recovery is far better achieved with a Queen Viera's Potential (+80% PP Recovery during normal attack) in gun-mode.


Ok , so where is the Killer Damage Coming in?

I will be so bold to say
Saiki as a Unit Set is better than Austere as a Weapon.

Saiki came at a time players really needed the Unit Set. Crafting Improved the unit through PP Gains, and it opened doors for many players. Austere is just a weapon of prestige that doesn't really increase any power against bosses at endgame, and by then your power is so great that the potential is meaningless against trash mobs...

You do all you need to do. You grind, you affix, you get killer gear.... just to find that your TOP OF THE LINE weapons does better against mobs than bosses over a "lesser" weapon. Remember, you didn't gear yourself to fight trash all day long. You geared yourself to be able to take the fight to the bosses, and with everything that you've got, in order to win!...

@Tunga

Not only were you wrong. You offered no evidence. Nothing to my level.

@Agent Falco

Yeah, Seriously!!!

[MightyHarken]

^ Uh Austere is stronger than Ideal everywhere, and even with units i doubt Ideal wins. The garbage factor to austere is getting one. I only got one austere to 60% (Fire DBs) and I've been skipping EQ ever since. I really wanted a light rod too but meh, f*ck doing XQ again. I may get revolution rod if i ever get the motivation.

between ideal larc and austere rifle the difference is as minimal as 40 atk when you have 3000 r atk and above, so yeah, austere is not worth the effort when it comes to rifles

[Tunga]

Till this point i have never read your walls of text, and i don't plan to start now.

- I was unaware rare cases like Ideal TD could beat austere (under certain conditions). Selphea already explained in a short sentence, no need to read your wall. (like honestly why do you type so much stuff?).

- Just strolling through the post but it seems you forgot weapon element bonus.

[Bellion]

Oh boy, PSO2 damage formula?? My favorite! :- )
It can basically be broken down to: [(Total attack - enemy defense)/5]* modifiers
You can't just directly multiply a weapon's actual stats by its potential just like that.

Not factoring in enemy defense just for pure numbers on the weapons.
Ideal Daggers 60 element Pot 3 (917*1.6)/5 = 293.44 * 1.18 = 346.26
Austere Daggers 60 element Pot 3 (1069*1.6)/5 = 342.08 = 383.13

Ideal Daggers 60 element + Ideal weapon bonus w/ set + 600 S-atk total affixes
[(917*1.6)+150+600]/5 = 443.44 * 1.18 = 523.26
Austere Daggers 60 element + Saiki set + 600 S-atk total affixes
[(1069*1.6)+60+600]/5 = 474.08 * 1.12 = 530.97

I'll just use my stats fully buffed and whatnot for this.
Ideal Daggers w/ Ideal set 4395.2/5 = 879.04 * 1.18 = 1037.27
Austere w/ Saiki set 4573.4/5 = 914.68 * 1.12 = 1024.44
Ideal Daggers w/ Saiki set 4330.2/5 = 866.04 * 1.18 = 1021.93

Factor in enemy defense with 300/5 = 60.
Ideal w/ Ideal set 879.04-60 = 819.04 * 1.18 = 966.47
Austere w/ Saiki set 914.68-60 = 854.68 * 1.12 = 957.24


tl;dr: Get Austere that actually have higher base attack due to elemental modifier. Ideal can be better than Austere that have low attack values. Factoring in enemy defense does favor Austere slightly or closes the gap for the weakest Austere ever put against an Ideal w/ units. Also, divide your total attack by 5 before multiplying.

[sparab]

I can't believe people are waging wars between austre and ideal when the majority of players use ares or below.
Also reminds me a interesting debate on zanverus, hyper sunlight, galewind, ideal wand, red tmg, tebo, tefo, tesu, tegu, gute, bote, bohu, moment gale spammer, bad players, name shaming, act plugin, overparse, dps simulator, and sakai's hair

[Bellion]

Eh, I'm more than happy seeing someone with 10501 Red weapon and 60 atk affixes. Got something better? Good for you.

Just here with the math, though.

[Tunga]

and sakai's hair

Sakai's hair? :wacko:

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Lots of math

-Doesn't look like you mentioned element bonus atk anywhere.

-Austere with saiki has 12pp over ideal with ideal units, better mobbing damage, slightly increased PP regen, and is at least just as good at killing bosses as ideal. If you want that extra 12 PP with ideal weapon, that means -90atk to use saiki units; the very atk that even gives ideal a chance at being on par with austere's damage.

-Better than literally every other niche 13* at a glance.

-What it takes to get austere: when austere came out, most of us had the majority of the stones, cubes, etc waiting in storage. Really all we had to do was do PD a bunch, which we're going to do anyway since it was one of the only fun and rewarding things to do in game. Xmas EQ came out less than a month later speeding up nero stone income. People who multiship got 60 ele austere before then. I got mine by the end of december iirc.

Calling austere garbage is absurd.

[Keilyn]

-Doesn't look like you mentioned element bonus atk anywhere.

-Austere with saiki has 12pp over ideal with ideal units, better mobbing damage, slightly increased PP regen, and is at least just as good at killing bosses as ideal. If you want that extra 12 PP with ideal weapon, that means -90atk to use saiki units; the very atk that even gives ideal a chance at being on par with austere's damage.

-Better than literally every other niche 13* at a glance.

-What it takes to get austere: when austere came out, most of us had the majority of the stones, cubes, etc waiting in storage. Really all we had to do was do PD a bunch, which we're going to do anyway since it was one of the only fun and rewarding things to do in game. Xmas EQ came out less than a month later speeding up nero stone income. People who multiship got 60 ele austere before then. I got mine by the end of december iirc.

Calling austere garbage is absurd.

Hi ^_^

Element Bonus Attacks as in Element Percentages? Like 60%?

Both weapons would be 60% meaning that multiplying Numerator and Denominator in comparisons would only act to scale a number.

(Total Character Power w/ Ideal * 1.6)/ (Total Character Power w/ Austere * 1.6) =

First 1.6/1.6 = 1, so we are left with

(Ideal)/(Austere)

This is actually a Division Property and Comparison Property in Number Theory. Since we assume both weapons would be 60% Element, it becomes a "Constant" shared by both sides being compared meaning that they cancel out.

ab/b = a/1 = a

Our case was

ab/cb = a/c


-----------------------------------------------------------

You are Right that Saiki has more PP, but I play Fighter/Techer.

I have:

PP Restorate
Super Treatment
Queen Viera Gunslash
Limit Break Photon (recover health and PP after Limit Break Ends)
Photon Blast
PP Convert

for PP Recovery.... PP is not an issue with my build.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Better Mobbing damage you say?

Bigger numbers is a nice thing vs mobs is nice, until you realize that reducing the total number of hits required to KILL a Target is the most important thing.

Numbers are a way of trying to figure out the total health pool and number of hits.

I am going to give you a Math Formula. This formula is used to determine how much power you need in order to reduce the total number of hits required to kill an enemy by 1 hit assuming your damage is equal on all three hits.

Setting Up:

Lets say it takes you Four Hits to Kill an enemy and you wish to Reduce the Total Number of Hits required to Kill an Enemy.

Four hits would be

25 25 25 25

You want enough power to make this into

33.33 33.33 33.33

You have to take the number 25 and increase it by a percentage to reach 33.33. It just so happens that 8.33 is one third of 25. This means in this case we need a total power increase of +33% in order to reduce the hit count by one.


The formula is:

1/(Current number of hits - 1) = the amount of power you need to increase by in order to reduce the hit count by 1 to make a kill.

Lets try it with 3 hits.
Lets say you kill an enemy in 3 hits, and you want to reduce to 2 hits..

1/(3 - 1) = 1/2, meaning it takes +50% more power to reduce the amount of hits required to kill an enemy in this case.

The long version is

Three hits =

33.33 33.33 33.33

and we want

50 50

So in order to get from 33.33 to 50 we need to increase 33.33 by +50% We take a calculator and multiply 33.3333 * 1.5 and it rounds to 50. (remember that 33.33 x 3 is 99.99 but we round to 100).

Austere's Percentage is +12% but with the higher power base, I've calculated +15%+ when fighting mobs....

That seems nice... if the mob actually took 7 hits and you wanted to reduce the amount of hits needed to kill the target by 1. So we have

1/(7-1) = 1/6 = +16.66%

and yes, Austere combined with its affixes and potential can do that against mobs..

-------------------------------------------------------------------

So yes...
Austere is a Garbage Excuse for a weapon for minimal increases against the ever closing gap of 13* and the fact that another "lesser" weapon called IDEAL WEAPONS matched and beat it in Boss Damage made Austere a Joke in my eyes.

Arguing that Austere is Important is the same as telling me that you are insecure in your ability to mob by comparison. Only in AQ can mobs be a problem and I destroy them in a breeze with crafted 10* Wands and a Queen Viera Gunslash. 2 -3 hits is how many hits it takes for me to kill trash-mobs (not counting large enemies) with my wands...

..Or perhaps you feel sad, and even under attack on the notion that many people worked their ass off for it. That is not my problem, nor is it my own fault.

This is why Education Exists,
Why Mathematics are Important
Along with Logic and Reasoning Skills....

...Bravery is a risky thing
Having enough mercy and spirit to prove the world wrong
when no one sides with you on the matter.
Takes real courage you know...

I didn't have to write the math
I didn't have to make the argument...
I could have just walked away...

...but I did it to prove a point.
I could have been a Jackass and written only about Ideal
I wrote about Saiki too because its loved and cherished

I don't like to be the bearer of bad news
but my life is bad news, split fifty ways at times...
When I'm awake, I feel in stasis
When I'm asleep, I feel solace...

I was asleep once you know...
and I woke up after Time of Death was recorded...
I don't live for Drama, I just live
..and when I die, I will just die.

I am not mocking your Austere weapon.
In fact I am rather Angry that SEGA's Top weapon isn't as powerful as it should be, nor as strong as it should be. Something that takes that much time and energy to attain should have come with an insurance policy to increase its power as the game ages to retain its position as the best of the best....

You didn't realize that when Ideal or Austere get dethroned, it will be a dual-death on that day. Both Ideal and Austere will fall together you know... or haven't you realized that yet? Their fates are both bound together... so in effect I am really speaking about the same thing.

SEGA ensuring that the Challenge Weapons remain ageless and worthy
SEGA ensuring that the top weapon to attain in-game retains its power.

Would SEGA live up to that responsibility, or simply just replace those weapons and force us to restart the gearing process all over again? It doesn't really seem fair does it?

But it is what it is...
...and the worse for me was that I checked all my math trying to make sure things were correct and that in some hopes I was wrong, but I wasn't and it pained me to have to let you know like this.

...and the worse for everyone is that if SEGA does make a new difficulty mode, they will make new weapons and displace all the old ones like 13* initially did. Its a really vicious cycle.

Well, Good Night everyone.
Its the weekend. Lots to do. :)

[toragyo]

I guess I should keep using my +3 Vraolet since I think it's perfectly fine for mobbing :wacko:

AQ mobs are a joke by the way.

[milranduil]

You play FiTe and thus only considered the melee side of austere wand... a single weapon which you used to generalize all austeres. Needless to say, I find your lack of logic disturbing.

[Bellion]

So, a certain individual thinks that (1069-300)/5*1.6 = ((1069*1.6)-300)/5?
In other news, the Earth is flat.

[milranduil]

So, a certain individual thinks that (1069-300)/5*1.6 = ((1069*1.6)-300)/5?
In other news, the Earth is flat.

i didn't know B.o.B. came to pso-w :wacko:

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

You are Right that Saiki has more PP, but I play Fighter/Techer.

I have:

PP Restorate
Super Treatment
Queen Viera Gunslash
Limit Break Photon (recover health and PP after Limit Break Ends)
Photon Blast
PP Convert

for PP Recovery.... PP is not an issue with my build.


Good for you. Too bad there's alot more weapon categories, classes, and playstyles that don't have that luxury, and with varying value on PP. Hell on that note, how many people even play a combo like Fi/Te? Why would you bring that up? Most people maining Fi are subbing Hu.




Better Mobbing damage you say?

It is. Period.



So yes...
Austere is a Garbage Excuse for a weapon for minimal increases against the ever closing gap of 13* and the fact that another "lesser" weapon called IDEAL WEAPONS matched and beat it in Boss Damage made Austere a Joke in my eyes.

Ideal karen does not beat austere galland vs a boss unless I use ideal units to MAYBE match it, while giving up 12 PP, and better PP recovery. You're actually just straight up wrong about that. Hint: I have both weapons.


Arguing that Austere is Important is the same as telling me that you are insecure in your ability to mob by comparison. Only in AQ can mobs be a problem and I destroy them in a breeze with crafted 10* Wands and a Queen Viera Gunslash. 2 -3 hits is how many hits it takes for me to kill trash-mobs (not counting large enemies) with my wands...

..Or perhaps you feel sad, and even under attack on the notion that many people worked their ass off for it. That is not my problem, nor is it my own fault.

This is why Education Exists,
Why Mathematics are Important
Along with Logic and Reasoning Skills....

...Bravery is a risky thing
Having enough mercy and spirit to prove the world wrong
when no one sides with you on the matter.
Takes real courage you know...

I didn't have to write the math
I didn't have to make the argument...
I could have just walked away...

...but I did it to prove a point.
I could have been a Jackass and written only about Ideal
I wrote about Saiki too because its loved and cherished

I don't like to be the bearer of bad news
but my life is bad news, split fifty ways at times...
When I'm awake, I feel in stasis
When I'm asleep, I feel solace...

I was asleep once you know...
and I woke up after Time of Death was recorded...
I don't live for Drama, I just live
..and when I die, I will just die.

I am not mocking your Austere weapon.
In fact I am rather Angry that SEGA's Top weapon isn't as powerful as it should be, nor as strong as it should be. Something that takes that much time and energy to attain should have come with an insurance policy to increase its power as the game ages to retain its position as the best of the best....

You didn't realize that when Ideal or Austere get dethroned, it will be a dual-death on that day. Both Ideal and Austere will fall together you know... or haven't you realized that yet? Their fates are both bound together... so in effect I am really speaking about the same thing.

SEGA ensuring that the Challenge Weapons remain ageless and worthy
SEGA ensuring that the top weapon to attain in-game retains its power.

Would SEGA live up to that responsibility, or simply just replace those weapons and force us to restart the gearing process all over again? It doesn't really seem fair does it?

But it is what it is...
...and the worse for me was that I checked all my math trying to make sure things were correct and that in some hopes I was wrong, but I wasn't and it pained me to have to let you know like this.

...and the worse for everyone is that if SEGA does make a new difficulty mode, they will make new weapons and displace all the old ones like 13* initially did. Its a really vicious cycle.

Well, Good Night everyone.
Its the weekend. Lots to do. :)

You know, trying to go psychiatrist just makes you look foolish when you're wrong about every prediction about me. The rest of it is barely relevant ramblings that no one really cares about right now.

[Tunga]

wall of text

Why do you write so much gibberish instead of going directly to the point? It's a video game forum there's no need to go that far...

[SteveCZ]

Why do you write so much gibberish instead of going directly to the point? It's a video game forum there's no need to go that far...

Let me help translate what he's saying in a single sentence: Austere isn't better than Ideal in most cases IMO. Is that it? No? Okay ... :(

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Let me help translate what he's saying in a single sentence: Austere isn't better than Ideal in most cases IMO. Is that it? No? Okay ... :(

That conclusion would still be wrong though.

In 'most cases', we're killing mobs. Austere wins.

Starting at katana Br/Hu levels of atk, ideal can, at best, break even with austere in boss damage as long as you use ideal units with it. Doing so invites drawbacks including less PP, and less PP regen. Weapons with lower bases than a katana may benefit more from ideal (while still missing out on more PP). Fi happens to have two weapon categories of that description: daggers and dual sabers.

[SteveCZ]

That conclusion would still be wrong though

No idea. May wanna ask the guy again. :D

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

No idea. May wanna ask the guy. I'm just lurking on the joke. :D

Yeah I got that impression. At this point, I'd rather respond to anything that isn't an annoying wall of text.

[Selphea]

The damage calc exists for a reason :wacko:

[wefwq]

Why do you write so much gibberish instead of going directly to the point? It's a video game forum there's no need to go that far...
No one noticed him until he put on the wall of text.

[Xaeris]

If I put him on ignore, would he die?

[SteveCZ]

If I put him on ignore, would he die?

Maybe.

[Achelousaurus]

Yamato weapons could be decent depending on how the potential works. Does the 15% bonus stay active until you change weapons, load a new area?

AIS weapons look quite bad...

Glad to see the four new Seiga weapons will have the same potential as the sword and launcher - definitely getting the double sabre.
I just want the ARKS Immense Sword for looks.
And either way the potential is beyond retarded, it's Sega's desperate attempt to add something new and shiny for its own sake and not cause it makes any kind of sense.
No one in Sega sits down and does some math and then decides with the game's current balance it's necessary that pp refill gets reduced and you need 15 kills for the full damage and crit increase. Rather someone has an idea while on the crapper and thinks making a funky conditional potential will make people play some more cause it requires a lot getting used to and people will want to experiment...if at all, the actually more likely is that his thoughts stopped at the funky part and he didn't even think about whether it makes people play more or not.


1060(50)3 is what JP used to describe a fully upgrade weapon. I have seen many players with +10 60 element *13 with no potential, which makes me wonder if they don't know how the potential system works.

NT weapons solved such issue as you are forced to unlock potentials during upgrade process. But NT10200 is a thing.
That's just being lazy. A 13* at full element is still pretty strong. While it makes a big difference for some weapons, others are almost the same.
Some xie weapons get a tiny 6% pp reduction and a pointless 3% dmg increase from pot3. Even Invade only gets 5-6% damage increase.
And a 10600 13* is still vastly preferable to a crappy 11* or non max ele 13*.
For example, Ares Katana without pot is still 12% stronger than Beurayearl pot 3.


I like less reasons to spend money on upgrades as well. I'd like austere to be the best for at least another 6 months.
I am still waiting for Guren and especially Shouren. Shouren with tier 6 graphics will be nothing short of glorious.
I just hope it has a good potential.
Or maybe Sega will just turn it into another camo :v


Eh, I'm more than happy seeing someone with 10501 Red weapon and 60 atk affixes. Got something better? Good for you.

Just here with the math, though.
Yeah. As I said before, the gap between decent and really good is far smaller than the gap between crap and decent.
If someone does 20k damage per pa or 25k is not that much of a difference. It only is a real difference if that is 5k per pa.

Also, default affix +10 Ideal units are nice. People don't die like flies with them and that is more important than a bit more damage.
With people like that I can at least finish TD4 even if it's C rank but when people use crap gear all I see is a bunch of corpses around broken towers.

BTW for the whole austere vs Ideal matter we could actually just say both are strong and more or less the same vs bosses, but vs mobs austere has a big advantage. And a very large part of the game is mobbing. Infact ideal is so weak vs mobbing that it has notably less damage than Invade +0.
At least for knuckles.

[sparab]

Shit/Lazy tier equipment, in most cases, reflects the user has little to no knowledge of this game. Thus, you may not expect a flat 60 attack difference between someone with proper affixed saiki and default ideal units.

In the earlier PD I saw someone did 34k total damage...which was nearly 100 times difference from average players. And he wasn't AFK

[Achelousaurus]

That was obviously not cause of units.
Units even with good atk should be a ~15% damage difference (considering ~500 atk from units).
So even with like 150 atk on the units it still would have been <40k.
The main difference must have been crappy build (like Guard Stance hu) and a crappy weapon like 20 element 13* without potential.

I've seen someone deal ~700 per hit with Bullet Squall despite using 130 atk Saikis and a 150atk Orbit tmg with Urgent Maneuver 1 at 3.

[Coatl]

Did anyone mention the latents of the Quartz fists?

[Keilyn]

My last post in this topic..

People who fail to understand Applied Fifth Grade Mathematics, and reply through opinion rather than fact, do not deserve a shred of my time or energy; nor do they deserve a shred of consideration from anyone in the professional world.

[MightyHarken]

I just want the ARKS Immense Sword for looks.
And either way the potential is beyond retarded, it's Sega's desperate attempt to add something new and shiny for its own sake and not cause it makes any kind of sense.
No one in Sega sits down and does some math and then decides with the game's current balance it's necessary that pp refill gets reduced and you need 15 kills for the full damage and crit increase. Rather someone has an idea while on the crapper and thinks making a funky conditional potential will make people play some more cause it requires a lot getting used to and people will want to experiment...if at all, the actually more likely is that his thoughts stopped at the funky part and he didn't even think about whether it makes people play more or not.


That's just being lazy. A 13* at full element is still pretty strong. While it makes a big difference for some weapons, others are almost the same.
Some xie weapons get a tiny 6% pp reduction and a pointless 3% dmg increase from pot3. Even Invade only gets 5-6% damage increase.
And a 10600 13* is still vastly preferable to a crappy 11* or non max ele 13*.
For example, Ares Katana without pot is still 12% stronger than Beurayearl pot 3.


I am still waiting for Guren and especially Shouren. Shouren with tier 6 graphics will be nothing short of glorious.
I just hope it has a good potential.
Or maybe Sega will just turn it into another camo :v


Yeah. As I said before, the gap between decent and really good is far smaller than the gap between crap and decent.
If someone does 20k damage per pa or 25k is not that much of a difference. It only is a real difference if that is 5k per pa.

Also, default affix +10 Ideal units are nice. People don't die like flies with them and that is more important than a bit more damage.
With people like that I can at least finish TD4 even if it's C rank but when people use crap gear all I see is a bunch of corpses around broken towers.

BTW for the whole austere vs Ideal matter we could actually just say both are strong and more or less the same vs bosses, but vs mobs austere has a big advantage. And a very large part of the game is mobbing. Infact ideal is so weak vs mobbing that it has notably less damage than Invade +0.
At least for knuckles.
You got confused there son, yamato is one thing and AIS is another thing.

Yamato requries 15 kills to get max damage.

AIS nerfs pp regen by 10% + boosts crit and damage by 10% + has the same attack power as an austere weapon

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

My last post in this topic..

People who fail to understand Applied Fifth Grade Mathematics, and reply through opinion rather than fact, do not deserve a shred of my time or energy; nor do they deserve a shred of consideration from anyone in the professional world.

Good, unless you want to come back to math this away:

Katana comparison

http://4rt.info/psod/?rDZYc

Dagger comparison

http://4rt.info/psod/?4W5z2

Added 90 stk to barehand to simulate ideal 4 set bonus advantage over saiki.

Like bel and I both said, low atk weapons can benefit more from ideal, and you ran numbers for the LOWEST base atk weapon category in the game; daggers!

Whether or not your numbers are accurate is one thing. The only thing you've proven is how narrow you chose to see things by testing ONE weapon category, in the hands of ONE class combo, for ONE specific application, ignore/marginalize the advantages outside of said application, and used the advantages of that specific class combo as grounds to ignore another advantage of austere, and decide austere is crap across the board, which is your opinion, and an inaccurate blanket statement.

No one would take YOU seriously in a professional setting for the amount of convenient omission you used to make point.

Yes, ideal is better than austere... for 1-2 specific weapon categories, against bosses only, and if you ignore every advantage austere has! That is literally what your conclusion is. For all of your knowledge on the game's calculations, and algebra, you're an idiot. This is why I, or anyone else haven't bothered to respond to you with walls of math!

[Losvaize]

My last post in this topic..

People who fail to understand Applied Fifth Grade Mathematics, and reply through opinion rather than fact, do not deserve a shred of my time or energy; nor do they deserve a shred of consideration from anyone in the professional world.

Someone already replied with what I wanted to say but I had went through the trouble of making this so I'm gonna put it up anyway.

[Selphea]

Someone already replied with what I wanted to say but I had went through the trouble of making this so I'm gonna put it up anyway.

You cut off the class bonuses. Did you turn on 1pt Rare Mastery, Crazy Beat and Deadline? Why only 60 ATK affixes and why is barehanded ATK left at default?

[Losvaize]

You cut off the class bonuses. Did you turn on 1pt Rare Mastery, Crazy Beat and Deadline? Why only 60 ATK affixes and why is barehanded ATK left at default?

The whole point was to just show base differences between the two weapons. Even before factoring any of those extra skills, which would be applied to both sides equally, you can see the difference between the two weapons. The variance between the two would be larger as the numbers increase but the point is to show the difference between the two weapons to prove the point that austere is stronger than ideal EVEN against bosses. Yes technically with ideal set you can push slightly higher numbers than austere against bosses only, but as I said in the image you lose lots of quality of life stuff from running full ideal set that austere plus saiki would give you in return.

[TaigaUC]

Was wondering why this topic was so popular.
Popped in and it's people arguing about weird stuff again.
Figures.

[Tunga]

Was wondering why this topic was so popular.
Popped in and it's people arguing about weird stuff again.
Figures.

Is this what you consider weird?


Mreply through opinion rather than fact,

To be fair, you also used opinion to support your idea that Austere is garbage...

[Zeroem]

I seriously wonder how a topic about Yamato and AIS' weapon potential become a somewhat pointless and borderline sad math debate between Ideal and Austere.


......Then I remembered where the thread was located.

[Keilyn]

Good, unless you want to come back to math this away:

Katana comparison

http://4rt.info/psod/?rDZYc

Dagger comparison

http://4rt.info/psod/?4W5z2

Added 90 stk to barehand to simulate ideal 4 set bonus advantage over saiki.

Like bel and I both said, low atk weapons can benefit more from ideal, and you ran numbers for the LOWEST base atk weapon category in the game; daggers!

Whether or not your numbers are accurate is one thing. The only thing you've proven is how narrow you chose to see things by testing ONE weapon category, in the hands of ONE class combo, for ONE specific application, ignore/marginalize the advantages outside of said application, and used the advantages of that specific class combo as grounds to ignore another advantage of austere, and decide austere is crap across the board, which is your opinion, and an inaccurate blanket statement.

No one would take YOU seriously in a professional setting for the amount of convenient omission you used to make point.

Yes, ideal is better than austere... for 1-2 specific weapon categories, against bosses only, and if you ignore every advantage austere has! That is literally what your conclusion is. For all of your knowledge on the game's calculations, and algebra, you're an idiot. This is why I, or anyone else haven't bothered to respond to you with walls of math!

I had left this thread and this poster decided to visit my profile and posted a link to this thread. You can blame him for having me respond to a thread I had walked away from.... It won't be long as I don't have much to say:

Your defense for AUSTERE not being GARBAGE and being "WORTH TO GET" For the full hardcore endgamer who will run six slot (or more) weapons and units is that I didn't calculate "everything" on all weapons and post it!? You then declared me to be an idiot, when you can't tell the difference between Algebra and Fifth Grade Arithmetic Concepts.....while failing to realize that some weapons are utter garbage to mob with, but stellar at wiping out bosses. Tell me something... Are you High?

FACT: Austere is the weapon that has to prove itself as the ENDGAME weapon to get, not Ideal.

When all calculation is said and done on fully powered players, the damage difference between the two is residual (1% or less on SAIKI vs bosses) during a time when we wipe out level 80 mobs in 2 - 3 hits. A 12% potential is not going to increase my power vs mobs by 50% in order to reduce the hit count from 3 hits to 2 hits (3 - 1 = 2, reciprocal being 1/2). I have no problems mobbing with what I mob with now......and against level 80 enemies.

My previous calculations did not include a Full Skill Tree, Rings, Shifta Drink, Tree Buff, Food, or Timed Buffs. My previous calculations DID include the Equilibrium for a range of 150. 3800 ATP vs 4000 ATP is the Equilibrium for a difference of 200 ATP among the two weapons. Equilibrium was determined for Saiki Units....

When this thread started, everyone thought that it was AUSTERE or Bust, but I proved that Austere was mostly hype. I guess it seems that top players seem to have a mobbing problem if they are willing to defend a mobbing weapon to the end of time.....

Ideal and Austere remind me of Linux and Windows. Windows is designed for the general public to be good to decent at just about everything. However, Linux is designed to be great at the one thing that truly counts in the industry.....Networking! Windows can try to come close, but it won't beat an OS designed from the ground up for networking. It doesn't mean that Windows doesn't have its purpose. Most users are on Windows, while most webservers, databases, and file servers are on Linux.

Do I want to be good at everything through one weapon when I have six options for weapons? or do I want to have a Weapon that is good against a boss, and the other five good towards other things?

This is a choice everyone has to make.
In my build, Wands and Gunslashes are mobbing weapons, while Daggers and Knuckles are Bossing Weapons.

[HentaiLolicon]

uhmm, can we put the train back on its rail now?

[BWS-1]

Came here for A.I.S. pron...

... stayed for the math.

[femme fatale]

keylin guy, seek help

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Your defense for AUSTERE not being GARBAGE...


... Is that it's better than ideal for nearly every weapon category with more base atk than daggers at everything from mobbing, to bossing, to pp sustain. The damage calc can tell you that. I don't care about your calculations.

If austere is garbage to you, yet it performs better than ideal, wouldn't that make ideal garbage by your standards? Hell, that would make all 13*s garbage to you.

Calling something garbage is to berate everything under it, including your own weapon of choice.

How about we end it here?

[SteveCZ]

Hint: Not many would listen to a person who is acting such a smart ass even whether he is right or wrong, cause you will always be wrong or ridiculed.
Especially when it can be explained in one single sentence instead of being equipped with gibberish words.

It's definitely not rocket science to explain things in game and even rocket science is not filled with why babies are born and died to explain stars and constellations.
This post is an example of my gibberish words of this post, but at least it doesn't take more than 5 lines including a line break. :D

[Tunga]

When the first spawn in solo UQ clocks in at near 2,000,00 HP (or more) or heavy mob XHEQ that extra 20%+ mobbing power comes in handy. But enough about this, it's getting old..

Lets get the real debate going now... windows vs linux hipsters!
Nah, jk lets stop pls.

[NephyrisX]

FACT: Austere is the weapon that has to prove itself as the ENDGAME weapon to get, not Ideal.

The heck does this mean, anyway? Does it in anyway change the fact that Austere is a superior choice in virtually all categories?

[otakun]

Ideal sucks simply cause challenge mode. Argument settled.

[Vatallus]

Stay classy, PSOworld.

[Coatl]

I don't really think you could farm for an ideal weapon reliably anymore. I got the rifle and I'm content with it, but if I were to try to obtain another one it would take way too long due to challenge blocks inactivity.

[Flaoc]

Hint: Not many would listen to a person who is acting such a smart ass even whether he is right or wrong, cause you will always be wrong or ridiculed.
Especially when it can be explained in one single sentence instead of being equipped with gibberish words.

It's definitely not rocket science to explain things in game and even rocket science is not filled with why babies are born and died to explain stars and constellations.
This post is an example of my gibberish words of this post, but at least it doesn't take more than 5 lines including a line break. :D


... Is that it's better than ideal for nearly every weapon category with more base atk than daggers at everything from mobbing, to bossing, to pp sustain. The damage calc can tell you that. I don't care about your calculations.

If austere is garbage to you, yet it performs better than ideal, wouldn't that make ideal garbage by your standards? Hell, that would make all 13*s garbage to you.

Calling something garbage is to berate everything under it, including your own weapon of choice.

How about we end it here?


these 2 posts should sum it all up

[Zorak000]

yamato weapons seem to be Fire on the collection file

gonna get me that Phantom Radar as a sweet new rafoie/fomelgion stick for mining bases and ulti lilipa

like, do we know for sure that YOU need to deal the killing blow to get the +1% damage or will it work like basically everything else in the game where you just need to be in exp/drop range when it dies. it feels like like some people were jumping to conclusions in here

[Lorne]

So do we know for sure what "critical performance" means on the AIS weapons yet?

[Loveless62]

yamato weapons seem to be Fire on the collection file

gonna get me that Phantom Radar as a sweet new rafoie/fomelgion stick for mining bases and ulti lilipa

like, do we know for sure that YOU need to deal the killing blow to get the +1% damage or will it work like basically everything else in the game where you just need to be in exp/drop range when it dies. it feels like like some people were jumping to conclusions in here
I don't think anyone is going to know exactly how that weapon potential works until someone obtains one and has a chance to experiment with it (which should be soon, of course). Otherwise there are too many possible variables to guess at how it will work exactly.

[Ordy]

So do we know for sure what "critical performance" means on the AIS weapons yet?

I know it might sound absurd to ask a question about Yamato weapons potential in the Yamato potential thread, but I'd like to know the answer as well.

There's more information on swiki, could anybody translate?

PPの回復効果が(60%)減少し、クリティカル性能(7%)と与ダメージが10%上昇。

PP自動回復速度・攻撃時PP回復量が両方とも減少する。
クリティカルが発生したとき、ダメージ上昇効果は乗算で適用される。
たとえば、潜在Lv3なら(100×1.10×1.07 = 117.7)で17.7%ダメージが上昇する。
クリティカル率が上昇するのかは不明


Google translation:
[SPOILER-BOX]
PP recovery effect of (60%) decrease, critical performance (7%) and given the damage is increased by 10%.

When the PP automatic recovery speed and attack PP recovery amount is reduced both.
When the critical occurs, damage rise effect is applied in multiplication.
For example, 17.7% damage increases at if potential Lv3 (100 × 1.10 × 1.07 = 117.7).
Whether the critical rate rise is unknown

[/SPOILER-BOX]

So auto PP regen and PP regen per hit reduction? (comments on swiki are saying -50~60%)
7% boosted critical damage, 10% critical damage at lv3
They are not sure if there is a critical rate boost.

If i understand it correctly, the critical performance (7%) part is a critical damage multiplier, so it's it isn't going to stack with the 10%, that's why they said 17.7% (1.10*1.07) critical damage at lv3 and not 17% (10+7).

So with a critical damage ring, we'd have a 21.23% critical damage? (1.10*1.07*1.03)

Could anybody, who isn't Keilyn, confirm this? ... can't trust someone saying shit like "Austere is garbage". (;¬_¬)

[Saagonsa]

like, do we know for sure that YOU need to deal the killing blow to get the +1% damage or will it work like basically everything else in the game where you just need to be in exp/drop range when it dies.

According to swiki, yeah you are the one who needs to get the kill for it to count.

[arokidaaron]

Not gonna bother with Yamato weapons. But AIS weapons are kinda tempting to get because of that crit damage increase, and the base damage of the weapons are 2nd best according to swiki.

[Coatl]

So what are the AIS weapon's latent? Are they 10% dmg only when you crit? The translation is weird.

[final_attack]

So what are the AIS weapon's latent? Are they 10% dmg only when you crit? The translation is weird.

I think I saw something like 10% damage up, then 7% crit damage up (which got boosted again by 10%) ... making it 17.7% up.
PP recovery at 60% only though. So probably need to play weapon switching a lot.

[Ordy]

So what are the AIS weapon's latent? Are they 10% dmg only when you crit? The translation is weird.

Why are people ignoring me? (;_;)/~~~

http://puu.sh/oPiYu/7cba2332fd.png

[SteveCZ]

Why are people ignoring me? (;_;)/~~~

Most likely cause nobody has the answer yet and don't wanna assume.

[Aine]

- Both auto and on-hit PP regen reduced
- Bonus damage on crit is multiplicative with constant bonus damage (1.1 constant damage times 1.07 critical damage = 1.177 damage on crit)
- Unknown if critical rate is increased

That's all it says, doesn't mention anything about how it interacts with rings.

[Tunga]

- Both auto and on-hit PP regen reduced

60% reduction to both?

[Coatl]

Seems so. They have decent potentials otherwise but that PP reduction is really harsh.

[dr apocalipsis]

Well, it looks like still good for a rifle. You don't use normal attack for pp anyway.

[Caetho]

My only question for Yamato weapon potential is if it stays on after you switch out. 15% damage after a few kills is absurd for mobbing EQs.

[merchat7]

My only question for Yamato weapon potential is if it stays on after you switch out. 15% damage after a few kills is absurd for mobbing EQs.

On swiki, it says 武器を持ち替えると効果がリセットされる which means "When the weapon is switched, the effect (potential) will be reset".

[Keilyn]

This makes me think about potentials in EQs... as combined damage numbers are pretty high already in MPAs

Let me indulge in order to forget that I turned three-dozen years old today...

Suppose we hit an enemy an equal number of hits + 1 player to destroy the enemy. How would the damage appear to be if we factored out the potential of the weapons the MPA is carrying and just have +10 weapons?

3 hits on 4 players
Base DMG / % = DMG w/o potential on 4 players hit on equal DMG
---------------------------
33 / 1.09 = 30.27 * 4 > 100
33 / 1.12 = 29.46 * 4 > 100
33 / 1.15 = 28.69 * 4 > 100
33 / 1.20 = 27.5 * 4 > 100; VF
----------------------------

This annoys me, and resorting to number theory... I would try five players on four hits (25%) though I know the result already (Sadly).

4 Hits on 5 Players
Base DMG / Pot. % = DMG w/o potential on 5 players hit on equal DMG
------------------------------------------------------------------
25 / 1.09 = 22.93 * 5 > 100
25 / 1.12 = 22.32 * 5 > 100
25 / 1.15 = 21.73 * 5 > 100; VF
25 / 1.2 = 20.83 * 5 > 100; VF
------------------------------------------------------------------

VF = Variance Factors into it, creating values lower than 100, raising the hit count.

Just for the hell of it, I should be running 2 on 3 as well. Its just good practice..

2 Hits on 3 Players
Base DMG / % = DMG w/o potential on 3 players hit on equal damage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
50 / 1.09 = 45.87 * 3 > 100
50 / 1.12 = 44.64 * 3 > 100
50 / 1.15 = 43.47 * 3 > 100
50 / 1.2 = 41.66 * 3 > 100
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 25: Variance becomes an issue. Potentials are important.
On 33: Variance is less of an issue, Potentials are nearly useless vs trash mobs.
On 50: Potentials are useless vs trash mobs.

Which of course leads to three conclusion:

1) Player power is insanely high already.....perhaps too strong.
2) EQs are about Coordination for efficiency and speed above all else.
3) Potentials are important when fighting bosses and sub-bosses.

...now I shall go eat cake,
so that tomorrow, I eat blade! ^_^

[HentaiLolicon]

^
In short, just get Austere or Orbit ( i'm a scrub RA with austere rifle and orbital launcher)
P/S: Damn shame though, that AIS launcher looks good

[Shinmarizu]

On paper, it seems that the AIS rifle is worth it despite the latent's PP regen demerit. As for sword and launcher, Orbit is better. Heck, pair the AIS rifle and Orbit launcher together and switch between.

Also, the Yamato latent is very lacking.

[Loveless62]

...
So when 20+ Goldrahdas bumrush a tower during Mining Base Defense, do you pull out an Ideal weapon to try to save that tower?

Not all non-boss mobs are as weak as an Oodan. Mobbing potentials do matter.

[cheapgunner]

So would the Phantom radar ( Yamato Rod ) 13* be weaker than the other 13* Quotz rod? Seeing that it's latent is the 1% per mob kill. I might skip it since it looks weaker than the revos.

[Mizel]

So would the Phantom radar ( Yamato Rod ) 13* be weaker than the other 13* Quotz rod? Seeing that it's latent is the 1% per mob kill. I might skip it since it looks weaker than the revos.

Well, on paper the Yamato rod is stronger than Quotz, Revo, and even Austere in terms of pure damage with the potential maxed, but the potential resetting upon weapon switch is a big problem. That and the fact that you actually need to get the kill yourself, meaning that unlike Ares potential, you won't be able to get any % boost by just hitting things and doing a lot of damage. If the guy next to you kill steals you or good ol' gaijin ping delay keeps you from dealing the finishing blow then you're screwed. I personally think it's useless. Quotz rod is the better choice.

[oratank]

yamato rod with fire element fire tech will melt everything no need to worry :p

[Keilyn]

So when 20+ Goldrahdas bumrush a tower during Mining Base Defense, do you pull out an Ideal weapon to try to save that tower?

Not all non-boss mobs are as weak as an Oodan. Mobbing potentials do matter.

Hi Loveless. ^_^

As Fighter/Techer
Zondeel (to push them away from the tower) + Fast-Cast or Uncharged Zanverse + Knuckle PAs to hit the bunched up Goldrahdas. :)

[BWS-1]

Maaan, having lurked around for the past couple days made me think that I MIGHT be 4 years too late to consider playing PSO2.

Granted, seeing threads (and parts of threads derailing) like what I see here likely means people are trying to find ways to get things done and also have fun in the process with new and old content alike; you know, nothing wrong with trying to max effectiveness and efficiency in a game or reality...

... but I might fall into PSO2 in such a n00b state that by the time I won't suck anymore, either the game will be gone or whoever the few that ARE still playing it that could be fun/functional to be playing with will be long gone in God-tier-meta-different-gamingLAND. Good thing PSO2 has AI partners though, I guess!

[Macmaxi]

i dont even really pick up items anymore, getting stronger only makes things less fun. there is simply no motivation for me personally.

[Loveless62]

Well, on paper the Yamato rod is stronger than Quotz, Revo, and even Austere in terms of pure damage with the potential maxed, but the potential resetting upon weapon switch is a big problem. That and the fact that you actually need to get the kill yourself, meaning that unlike Ares potential, you won't be able to get any % boost by just hitting things and doing a lot of damage. If the guy next to you kill steals you or good ol' gaijin ping delay keeps you from dealing the finishing blow then you're screwed. I personally think it's useless. Quotz rod is the better choice.
Actually, due to the way that PB energy accumulation works, for Ares potential you do need to get killing blows (or get punched in the face). You get PB energy for how much overkill damage you do to an enemy. However, unlike for Yamato, you might maximize the potential in less than 15 kills, depending on how much damage you do (or how many times you get punched in the face).

[Caetho]

Since it resets on switch it serves near 0 purpose outside of mobbing EQs which it already may not perform well on because you need to switch weapons usually to deal with the situation, making its potential nearly unusable, use it if you have nothing else. But since they released Quotz and Seiga(Tokyo), which are almost unconditional damage increases, it might be better to go for those instead. Yamato potential serves little to no purpose unless you have nothing else, but since the 2 series that I just mentioned exist, it's a better idea to simply go with that instead.

[Kondibon]

Actually, due to the way that PB energy accumulation works, for Ares potential you do need to get killing blows (or get punched in the face). You get PB energy for how much overkill damage you do to an enemy. You get PB energy based on how much of a percent of the enemy's max hp you do in damage, regardless of if its a kill or not. Overkills help, but you aren't required to get the finishing blow.

[Achelousaurus]

AIS weapons give 10% dmg boost at all times and another 7% on crits?
That is actually very good.

Oh and using aoe makes pb rise faster for techs, does it also do the same with weapon pas?