Summoner Subclassing General.

[Moffen]

Ignore this.

[Dephinix]

Thank you for starting this! ^^

[Loveless62]

For Gu/Su, I don't see why you would put points into Dive Roll Advance. If you want invincibility frames, you should be using stylish rolls, not dive rolls. You should also have a single point in Rare Mastery Gunner, as gaining 30 R-atk is a pretty good return for a single skill point.

Edit: I would also max Zero Range Critical, due to its synergy with TMG Mastery and the Critical Strike Range ring, as well as some modest gains from reducing damage variance. I would remove two points from Showtime Star and one point from Attack PP Restorate to make this possible.

Here is the result: http://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skillcalc.php?11EIbxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIo bxIofdS0dodBIb000000000doIn0000000jdoib0000000fdoI bid2OgXqqGAaXI2dAIs00009o00000000ioIn00000000IbIo0 000000jdoIb0000000loI2Ik4SfGF4ObnHNJ200006

[Zorak000]

I had to check swiki to make sure support fire stacks onto point assist, and they said it does so that changes my opinion a little.

/su seems like an anti-boss subclass since a good chunk of your damage is tied to point assist and support fire. 1.21x damage for only All Atk Up 1+2, then 1.53065x point assist + support fire. 1.2705x and 1.6071825x if you are utilizing Pet Elemental Weak Hit (it gives 1.05x damage for the player's damage too)

/su's direct competition is /br; with Average Stance granting an unconditional 1.265x damage for uncharged attacks, 1.3915x for charged. Weak Stance gives 1.485x to weak points and 1.6335 to charged attacks hitting weak points. if you do not plan on using Katanas or Bows at all with braver sub, you have more than enough skill points to take both stances. Attack Advance is notable due to stuff like Wands and Sacrifice Bite 0 having really strong basic attacks to begin with

if you are not using Tech damage, then you gotta factor the opportunity cost of /hu too; 1.760913x for striking damage and 1.61417025x for ranged damage, completely unconditional beyond landing Just Attack timings, is something you don't want to overlook. Automate, Massive Hunter, and Iron Will all provide some very appreciated durability. /fi is also notable if you can keep yourself positoned, alternate PAs, and possibly apply some status effects too

I kind of don't want to talk about the advantages of having access to shifta, because there are too many variables involved with the direct benefit. shifta's effectiveness grows with how much of the enemy's DEF you can overcome with your mag, weapon, raw-atk class skills, and affixes; since shifta only boosts your base "(main class + 20% Subclass) x race/gender modifier" stats

tldr; when picking a subclass, you gotta weigh the opportunity costs of not picking a different subclass. While /su does seem at least usable now, you probably don't want to take it anywhere that isn't a Boss EQ unless you are sure the MPA can handle crowds well enough

I do have some questions/comments about some of the things you say in here, so I'll point those out:

Gunner/Summoner

Allowing you to maintain your high HP,use zanverse chains and fly around with safoie Type-0

With orbit TMGs,you'll be able to immediately sheathe them on the ground for your PP regain boost.Safoie 0 can cover vertical distance nicely, but between Grimm Barrage and Arial Shooting (chraged while on the ground, or JA'd into from another PA while in midair) I don't really see too big of a need for using it over those

you can instant-sheathe with lobby actions, or even just swapping to a rifle/gunslash and back again; I don't really know what you mean by this beyond maybe sheathing in mid-air with techs? even then you would need to do something else after to stay in midair, which usually means unsheathing your guns to shoot anyway
Hunter/Summoner

The Hunter/Summoner combo was originally laughed at as being mostly pointless for anything besides being a damage sponge,however recent updates have changed this.

Access to Megiverse renders any need for sacrifices bite mute.
Capable of buffing with Shifta/Deband,which can be used in conjunction with the adrenaline ring for longer duration.
HP gain over time as well as automate and the high HP that the Hunter/Summoner combination have to offer should ensure that you don't die,being able to recover if you're just above the 50% HP mark and being instahealed by automate should you fall below that.
Ilzonde and SafoieT-0 can be used to close gaps on enemies with weapons that have awful gap closers such as the partisan or the wired lances.
What does that even mean; Sacrifice Bite doesn't heal you, it applies a +20% damage boost to sword Photon Arts and Sac Bite Type-0 can make Basic Attacks stronger than most of sword's PAs on top of the 20% boost. also I think you mean "moot" ("a debatable point") not "mute" ("unable to make sounds")
HP Restore, Resta, and Megiverse can allow a hunter to heal with a Gix weapon equipped and not have to reset the potential's boost from 20% back down to 6%. It can help Automate too, but that would only need to happen if you were keeping Monomates on you (I just dont carry monomates if I am running automate)
Adrenaline only increases the amount of time each Tick of shifta/deband are worth, the only skill that actually boosts the maximum possible duration is Techer's Extend Assist main-class-only skill.
Partisan has Rising Flag Type 0, it's not as fast as guilty break but I'd say it does the job well enough; Wired Lance has Adapting Spin and Grapple Charge, the former is an amazing positioning PA since you can backflip away from a boss'es face so you can holding current them at the precise distance for the best damage, and the latter still exists I guess. Safoie can help you fly up to a spot that you couldn't normally reach quickly though.

[Raujinn]

I mean if you were gonna go with the max amount of power you could get from Gix HuSu I'd say drop automate so mate items are never used. Depend on HP Restorate or quick-cast Megiverse if you need heals. If you're swapping weapons though it's kinda not much different to having mates cause then you're resetting the bonus anyway.

This makes HuSu a bit better, sure, but I wouldn't recommend going with it over HuFi which still annihilates it in raw power.

[Kondibon]

EDIT: Also, before anyone accuses me of being wishy washy about this. I've always felt SU was an OK sub. I just didn't like how everyone seemed to think the all class tact is good enough reason to try and use pets with summoner as a sub as your main gimmick.



tldr; when picking a subclass, you gotta weigh the opportunity costs of not picking a different subclass. While /su does seem at least usable now, you probably don't want to take it anywhere that isn't a Boss EQ unless you are sure the MPA can handle crowds well enoughI actually feel the opposite. I think Su sub is better for playing solo. For boss EQs a lot of the utility should ideally be coming from other players. The only real exception I can think of is if the class you're using as a main has really bad or clunky bossing options otherwise. like Te.


Safoie 0 can cover vertical distance nicely, but between Grimm Barrage and Arial Shooting (chraged while on the ground, or JA'd into from another PA while in midair) I don't really see too big of a need for using it over thoseThe vertical thing is actually a HUGE deal considering how slow Gu is at it normally. Also unlike a lot of other movement PAs it doesn't make you stop until you reach the hitbox you were targeting. Which means you won't get stuck on somethings face trying to use it. I agree that you shouldn't stop using Gu's own PAs, but Safoie has a LOT of utility that they don't.

Also I mentioned before that you can stupid fast chains with it and Ramegid-0. :U

[Raujinn]

I think its just wise to make sure that anyone coming across this thread realises this stuff isn't the meta is all. Experimenting with these builds is fine and I agree there's some interesting things that Su can bring to some classes it's just you don't want to see these classes turning up in raids.

HuSu interests me in the same way that HuTe did, only it seems like Su actually offers Hu more than Te did which is good. I found HuTe gameplay really fun its just that big loss in attack power you take. :c HuSu is still a loss its just not as sharp a one and does offer a bit of extra utlity. I'm still levelling Summoner up but for a sub I'm targeting something like this: http://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skillcalc.php?11fbxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIob xIo0jdodBIb000000000doIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo0000 000Io00000000ioIn00000000IbIo0000000jdoIb0000000lo Ibqx4SfGF4OqnHXGAbn0000j
No Hunter build included yet.

I'm ignoring the elemental bonus on this tree but... honestly I was struggling to figure out places to put SP in. Like Photon Blast boost, HP boost and the SE duration reduction skills are kind of "I have no idea where else to put em" so idk you might as well put some points in Pet Element just for that extra bit of damage when it counts.

Otherwise yeah, no Automate to get the most out of Gix sword, build for high HP to get the most out of HP Restorate and other auto-recovery skills (healing guard, maybe Just Reversal HP gain ring if you think you need it). Quick-cast Megiverse and a normal attack should fully heal you if Sacbite 0 is up which it should be at all times. .

One thing to maybe consider is that switching to the all-class Tact just to bring out Ceri or Popple for PP restoration might be pretty effective (there's a PP restore parfait coming up apparently?). I don't know how it stacks up against Orbit or like Queen Viera or something mind.

[Moffen]

I think its just wise to make sure that anyone coming across this thread realises this stuff isn't the meta is all. Experimenting with these builds is fine and I agree there's some interesting things that Su can bring to some classes it's just you don't want to see these classes turning up in raids.

One of the reasons Gu/Su interests me so much is that when I was in a team a while back,I was playing Gu/Ra and a teammate was playing Gu/Hu during pota.
Using chains and Dead approach,he was able to hit about 13mil dmg total ,while I was only ever capable of hitting about 8mil tops. A lot of it being down to having no reliable weak point to hit,but its becoming a trend with a few bosses and I see myself struggling in UQ amdus because of this. Although I can do incredible 999s with wb+chain+IF-T0,I cant do this consistently,which makes me lose a lot of damage and I feel as if I really lag behind the MPA.
Then theres wb jamming,and when I can only fire 1wb just for it to get gimped anyway,its kind of a downer.

Kondibon pointed out that ramegid can build chains super fast,and with Gu/Su having slightly higher PP due to the build,it seems like I can build up super fast chains without relying on weak points or JA's,and set up a zanverse while ramegid is building a chain before spamming the hell out of Dead approach for the chain finish. Zanverse seems like it'd boost that considerably,and the chain finish department is where I'm truly lacking in due to usually needing to rely on weakpoints for all my damage.

Though personally I need to test this myself,but thats why I'm CO spamming my Su on my Gu/Ra atm.
I move a lot fighting mobs,so SS is kinda rendered useless.
And getting SS to proc on bosses such as Deadleon and the other UQ bosses,or even Magatsu and Perennial Apocalypse Double and Abyss is a pain.

This opens up a few R-atk striking PA's for me on the gunner side that I couldnt use to much effect with Ra sub too.

This whole thread is for experimenting,and maybe it might become the meta at some point,depends on peoples findings on Su subclassing for certain builds as a whole,but Gu/Su has a lot of potential and Hu/Su's been used before (Before the point assist buff)

[echofaith]

Point assist doesnt really change my stance much. I alway felt Husu was already good on its own, mostly because hubr was a thing long before sac bite got buffed.Only thing you missed compared to hubr was sidestep JA, and guren traveling. Otherwise, husu have close multipliers to average stance hubr(can even be higher based in element and PAs you use), techs, regen and higher base stats(which should affect all buffs).

As someone said before, not the best class to bring to an mpa boss, but I would argue it have its merits in stuff like TD thanks to their lack of reliance on enemy facing(unlike hufi), and being able to zondeel stuff. Also super good for soloing stuff because of regen and resta. You could even play slightly less yoloish to be able to wear a gix without much hassle :p

[nguuuquaaa]

Depend on if Point Assist/Support Fire can boost Zanverus or not, TE/SU may actually replace GU/TE as Zanverus bot :wacko:
Otherwise, TE/SU is an okay combination, with stronger single target damage than TE/FI. Even more so with the upcoming all-class tact.

Hmmm, I should bring TE/SU to PD then....

[Dephinix]

After reading through this and understanding the recent changes, I think I'll try to make my Ammora Reinslet a Hu/Su with this build:

http://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skillcalc.php?11DubxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIo bxIodS0fdOdBdBIbi2dB5kI26JksNIsIo000000jdoIn000000 0jdoib0000000fdo0000000Io00000000ioIn00000000IbIo0 000000jdoIb0000000loI2Ik4SfGFkbrAHXGAIn0000j

As Moffen said, having 13 characters, this is just a lot of fun to have something decently good, but plays differently from combos already owned. Probably still be only a TA character besides possible Marron bombing, if I can ever get that going, but it's nice to have this new option. Thanks to everyone for their input, I'll sit on the fence and watch the Gu/Su stuff for a while!

[HonorVoided]

hey guys, a little help here in understanding something.
with the wording of point assist/ support fire, it's saying "pets and players" which is somewhat implying that if i use SF it will also increase the damage of other players... kinda like a mini WB. I don't think the damage would increase to all players, but I would like someone to confirm this with.

[Moffen]

hey guys, a little help here in understanding something.
with the wording of point assist/ support fire, it's saying "pets and players" which is somewhat implying that if i use SF it will also increase the damage of other players... kinda like a mini WB. I don't think the damage would increase to all players, but I would like someone to confirm this with.

Support fire is somewhat like a mini weak bullet,but you cast it yourself without any specific weapon,has a cooldown of 15 seconds at +10 and duration of 40+,however its damage bonus will only apply to the person who casted it,I dont think you can see other peoples support fire tags,only your own.

So short,yeah,it buffs only your damage :T

[HonorVoided]

thought so. someone will need to edit the wording on the text and take out that s on players.

[Caetho]

Never change PSO World, never change.

[reinforcers]

i think summoner can be use for all class sub for its all-atk up and all-def up, i use this tree for my summoner as when use it for sub http://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skillcalc.php?11cIbCIobCIobCIobCIobCIobCIobCIobCIo bCIo0jdodBIb000000000doIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo000 0000Io00000000ioIn00000000IbIo0000000jdoIb0000000j dBI2Ix4SfGF4NqnHXH2bn00006

[Dephinix]

The only classes that would be useful on is Hunter and maaaybe Techer. You're also missing support fire which is 10% more damage.

[reinforcers]

The only classes that would be useful on is Hunter and maaaybe Techer. You're also missing support fire which is 10% more damage.

isnt support fire is for pet only?

[Anduril]

isnt support fire is for pet only?

Nope, it was changed to boost damage from the player as well.

[Zorak000]

haha I was about to mention damage modifiers from other classes but I remembered I already posted that in here.

hu/su is pretty great for solo content

for other striking or ranged based main classes however, it's still really hard to beat a fury stance hunter sub for both raw power and damage mitigation options.
if you can take advantage of Tech Arts JA Bonus or Chase Advance/Plus, Fighter is also pretty ahead in power too.

otherwise te/su could be for people who dont have/can't really use a rikaruteri or blood spear but still want a setup that gives them some better bossing ability via marron or aero
if /te didnt have those wonderful PP regen skills I just noticed that a mono-element Fo/Su might not be the worst thing you could do with submoner

[Kondibon]

if /te didnt have those wonderful PP regen skills I just noticed that a mono-element Fo/Su might not be the worst thing you could do with submonerOr you could just use Br or Gu. :wacko: I tried Fo/Su, it really doesn't have anything a different sub couldn't do better and/or more reliably.

[Zorak000]

oh right I see is now; if you are going somewhere that you can best utilize point assist by fighting one thing at a time, those things are probably going to have weak-points to take advantage of, so weak stance will work better than summoner there. /gu is off in it's own category thanks to chain trigger but I getcha

like I wouldn't know how much the stat ups would contribute but I doubt they would make up the difference.

[Kondibon]

I still think Su works best as a faceroll sub for classes that can't normally use techs, and/or as a burst option for Te. It has good general use damage multipliers, but Br kinda fills that role better in most situation anyway. The tech use is its only other advantage and that isn't super amazing, even with all of the utility based tech crafts coming out.

[Moffen]

If you're wondering what happened to the main thread,I killed it off because I realised i posted on PSO-W before people knew how to use sub Su.

Short note.
Fo/Su is amazing in terms of general damage.
Fi/Su chase dominates mobbing for fi.
Hu/Su dominates tower defence
Ra/Su is incredible in that it can zanverse its own end attracts and zondeel for launcher helps though launcher isnt as strong.
Te/Su is good at mobbing and you can still toss marrons.
Gu/Su [Status: Killed by TMG Stance Up,please relocate your guntechers to Gu/Bo,which is also incredible]

I might revamp the whole main post at some point since its,uh,dead.

[nguuuquaaa]

If you're wondering what happened to the main thread,I killed it off because I realised i posted on PSO-W before people knew how to use sub Su.

Short note.
Fo/Su is amazing in terms of general damage.
Fi/Su chase dominates mobbing for fi.
Hu/Su dominates tower defence
Ra/Su is incredible in that it can zanverse its own end attracts and zondeel for launcher helps though launcher isnt as strong.
Te/Su is good at mobbing and you can still toss marrons.
Gu/Su [Status: Killed by TMG Stance Up,please relocate your guntechers to Gu/Bo,which is also incredible]

I might revamp the whole main post at some point since its,uh,dead.

I don't know where to start....
FO/SU has damage on boss, but no PP, nor Light Mastery. Even FO/FI is better.
FI/SU hold no candle to FI/HU at mobbing. FI/HU has better DS damage and has access to partisan for Sacred Skewer Type-0.
HU/SU is good at solo, but bad at group play since less damage than regular HU/FI.
RA/SU is bad. No Massive Hunter + Automate screams death for rifle usage.
TE/SU actually has worst mobbing out of every combination of TE, but yes, you can toss Marons, which make it the best at bossing.

[echofaith]

For fisu I assume it have to do with techs, specifically zondeel and zanverse. Not sure how often chase would trigger to make up for the lack of damage though.
Husu does have an advantage in mobby places like TD because mobs will be all over the place, or giving your their back when they are already in a tower. Being able to zondeel them is always nice too.

Tesu being good at mobbing is probably yet again, because of zondeel. Techer does have a range boosting passive that works with zondeel if I am not mistaken, so you can go crazy with your pillow explosions.

Fosu does have slightly better damage than brave stance fofi when using assist(around 3% more, and like 10% if hitting weakness), but thats mostly on paper, not taking into account having to activate the skill in first place. That, and lack of versatility against mobs kills its appeal for me.
Rasu does feel like the worst combo, but I guess it does have the merit of being able techs while still getting some damage boosting passives and even some tankyness(regen, base stats, and restas) and more importantly, being able to...zondeel v:

[reinforcers]

Ra/Su isnt bad, not the best one but not the worst. it still have more damage then Te or Fo sub but Tech capability means you can do resta/anti (or not at all since there is Hp restorate and quick recovery for Su) and it has more Def too means you less likely to die quickly, low damage on rifle? well there is launcher which can do high damage (combine with non weak bonus skill ring Weak Bonus Advance still work without weak bullet)

Fo/Su, is high damage (dont know which one higher Fo/Su or Fo/Te), PP is problem but can be manage if you got rose skewer, means you can use Popple/Cery for PP Recovery (which is fast)

for me i think the best for Su as sub is if you have that all classes tact, which is only Rose Skewer at the moment, so pet can be utilize too

[nguuuquaaa]

For fisu I assume it have to do with techs, specifically zondeel and zanverse. Not sure how often chase would trigger to make up for the lack of damage though.
Husu does have an advantage in mobby places like TD because mobs will be all over the place, or giving your their back when they are already in a tower. Being able to zondeel them is always nice too.

Tesu being good at mobbing is probably yet again, because of zondeel. Techer does have a range boosting passive that works with zondeel if I am not mistaken, so you can go crazy with your pillow explosions.

Fosu does have slightly better damage than brave stance fofi when using assist(around 3% more, and like 10% if hitting weakness), but thats mostly on paper, not taking into account having to activate the skill in first place. That, and lack of versatility against mobs kills its appeal for me.
Rasu does feel like the worst combo, but I guess it does have the merit of being able techs while still getting some damage boosting passives and even some tankyness(regen, base stats, and restas) and more importantly, being able to...zondeel v:

You don't Zondeel mob in tower, you Sacred Skewer Type-0 them. Which is good at both damage and aggro. Also Zondeel without Territory Burst is... err.
TE can naturally use tech in the first place. TE/SU is the worst at mobbing because worse general multiplier = worse wand damage.


Ra/Su isnt bad, not the best one but not the worst. it still have more damage then Te or Fo sub but Tech capability means you can do resta/anti (or not at all since there is Hp restorate and quick recovery for Su) and it has more Def too means you less likely to die quickly, low damage on rifle? well there is launcher which can do high damage (combine with non weak bonus skill ring Weak Bonus Advance still work without weak bullet)

Fo/Su, is high damage (dont know which one higher Fo/Su or Fo/Te), PP is problem but can be manage if you got rose skewer, means you can use Popple/Cery for PP Recovery (which is fast)

for me i think the best for Su as sub is if you have that all classes tact, which is only Rose Skewer at the moment, so pet can be utilize too

RA/HU works not because of multiplier only, but Massive Automate also. Don't have that? You're going to have a bad time.
FO/TE can use Rose Skewer + Cery for PP recover too.

[reinforcers]

RA/HU works not because of multiplier only, but Massive Automate also. Don't have that? You're going to have a bad time.
FO/TE can use Rose Skewer + Cery for PP recover too.

yes, and RA/SU can Resta, not as great as TE but like i said SU already have passive healing, so currently, not having a bad time with RA/SU.
its true about rose skewer though...

[Altiea]

yes, and RA/SU can Resta, not as great as TE but like i said SU already have passive healing, so currently, not having a bad time with RA/SU.
its true about rose skewer though...

Think you're better off with "instant healing" over "charge + passive healing". RA's T-ATK isn't good enough for Resta to be that great, and passive healing is just... eh. If you're playing RA well, you shouldn't really be getting hit all that much anyways. RA kinda needs Massive Hunter, too, since staying in one place is hard if you're gonna keep getting knocked around.

[reinforcers]

Think you're better off with "instant healing" over "charge + passive healing". RA's T-ATK isn't good enough for Resta to be that great, and passive healing is just... eh. If you're playing RA well, you shouldn't really be getting hit all that much anyways. RA kinda needs Massive Hunter, too, since staying in one place is hard if you're gonna keep getting knocked around.

actually it the other way around, RA still can held just passive healing and resta because it is at high range and keep moving so less likely to get hit by something. Im not saying it will be that easy but still can be done

[nguuuquaaa]

I don't know if it's a good idea to have a class that can't recover PP by normal attack use more PP to heal and even more PP to Zondeel/Zanverse.

[echofaith]

You don't Zondeel mob in tower, you Sacred Skewer Type-0 them. Which is good at both damage and aggro. Also Zondeel without Territory Burst is... err.
TE can naturally use tech in the first place. TE/SU is the worst at mobbing because worse general multiplier = worse wand damage.
.

Zoondel works good when the mob in the tower is separated and you cant hit them all at once with your PAs. Slide Shaker may fit the bill in these cases, but the damage is also one of the lowest. It also works when suicidal goldradas are close to exploding, since you can zondeel them away and let them explode without damaging the tower.

The point of subbing Su as Techer is to use pets as your main damaging source, not wands. Not sure how instant wand mobbing is compared to pillow explosions, but you have other pets like torim and dragon to hit stuff that isnt in range for good damage and aggro too.

[Saagonsa]

EA and Satcan have 0 super armor at all. Considering how long they take to charge up, anything other than a hunter subclass is just horrible for any situation where you would use either of those PAs.

[Moffen]

If you're gonna be a meta tard and not contribute then let the thread die already jesus christ.
I stopped putting effort into this when I realised I posted it on PSO-W.

[Altiea]

I mean, it's not that SU as a sub isn't terrible. It's got lots of unconditional damage bonuses, localized Weak Bullet, an actually decent Stat Up, HP Restorate, Massive Mate for classes that eat Mates to live, and a Pretty Good clone that is worth getting if you're subbing SU. The problem is that other subs provide something specific to mains that makes those mains better (the overcentralization of HU as a subclass is a major offender), which decreases the viability of SU sub.

One of the other problems about SU as a sub is that it's stuffed to the brim with Main Class Skills because of the whole Pet thing, which leaves very little room for any good Skills.

Just for kicks, I cobbled together this (https://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skillcalc.php?11DnbCIobCIobCIobCIobCIobCIobCIobCIo bCIo0jdodBIb000000000doIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo000 0000Io00000000ioIn00000000IbIo0000000jdoIb0000000j dBIbqK4SfGF4OqnHXGFbn00006) SU tree for sub. As it so happens, at Level 80, you have just enough Points to get most of the non-Pet skills on the tree, which gives you +175 ATK/DEF, an extra +100 HP, and all the boons previously mentioned.

[nguuuquaaa]

Zoondel works good when the mob in the tower is separated and you cant hit them all at once with your PAs. Slide Shaker may fit the bill in these cases, but the damage is also one of the lowest. It also works when suicidal goldradas are close to exploding, since you can zondeel them away and let them explode without damaging the tower.

The point of subbing Su as Techer is to use pets as your main damaging source, not wands. Not sure how instant wand mobbing is compared to pillow explosions, but you have other pets like torim and dragon to hit stuff that isnt in range for good damage and aggro too.

Why non-Territory-Burst Zondeel when you have Other Spin.

If you can gather a lot of mobs in one place and your computer won't have fps reduced for each wand swing then wand mobbing is still extremely effective. And when I say TE/SU is the worst at mobbing, I mean the worst among TE combinations. Yes you can use Redran, Cery/Popple and Torim/Aero for mobbing, but TE/BR can Ragrants/Gigrants Type-0, TE/FI has WG Element + Chase and TE/HU is simply good ol' TE/HU.


If you're gonna be a meta tard and not contribute then let the thread die already jesus christ.
I stopped putting effort into this when I realised I posted it on PSO-W.

Then let it die already.
You are the one who want opinion, but when people give you opinion you start flipping out.
The reason /SU is not good is because /HU is too good for striking, /RA is too good for ranged, /TE is too good for tech and /GU is too good for burst. Also, /SU is forced to Point Assist to achieve full multiplier, means less damage vs mobs and bosses with lots of breakable parts. Except TE which doesn't have a good bossing tool naturally, there's no reason to use /SU for pets over main class weapons.

[Altiea]

Then let it die already.
You are the one who want opinion, but when people give you opinion you start flipping out.
The reason /SU is not good is because /HU is too good for striking, /RA is too good for ranged, /TE is too good for tech and /GU is too good for burst. Also, /SU is forced to Point Assist to achieve full multiplier, means less damage vs mobs and bosses with lots of breakable parts. Except TE which doesn't have a good bossing tool naturally, there's no reason to use /SU for pets over main class weapons.

I think it's important to delve into why these classes are better than SU at playing PSO2, but the short answer is probably going to be "SU as a subclass is a master of none". SU as a sub does a lot of things decently, but without the specialization that HU, RA, TE, and GU give, it doesn't do anything another class can't do better.

I believe the original intent of the thread was also missed; it was originally created to discuss what you can do with a SU sub, but as SU doesn't really do much as a sub, it turned into a discussion as to why you shouldn't sub SU.

At least it isn't /BO. Bouncer is a pretty terrible subclass outside of niche builds.

[nguuuquaaa]

Well, I do agree that /SU is actually a nice sub clas (reasonable multiplier, tech usage). But similar to /FI, it doesn't specialize in anything so it falls short compared to /HU, /RA, /TE and /GU.

[reinforcers]

I don't know if it's a good idea to have a class that can't recover PP by normal attack use more PP to heal and even more PP to Zondeel/Zanverse.

if your main does can recover PP fast I dont see the problem for healing, not the favorite one but not bad either, especially if you want to tryout a class since it have all atk and all def


Well, I do agree that /SU is actually a nice sub clas (reasonable multiplier, tech usage). But similar to /FI, it doesn't specialize in anything so it falls short compared to /HU, /RA, /TE and /GU.

indeed, with the pet skill main class only, the only possible to use are mostly stat skill