Should COs, Tickets and Enemies Give Out More EXP?

[the_importer_]

First up, this happened today:

https://s8.postimg.cc/hzpmamhtt/pso20180617_021928_000.png (https://postimg.cc/image/hzpmamhtt/)

Being the 3rd time now that I've level capped all the classes, I can say for a fact that it was a pain in the ass having to get over 50m EXP for each classes with only Bonus Keys and "A World Engulfed in Shadows" to get any sort of worthwhile EXP in the process. This wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that we still have 15 levels to go for each class before the assumed final Lv100 cap. Considering that we'll get 2 or 3 more episodes with 2 or 3 new classes in the next 4 years, capping all of them will be a nightmare if SEGA doesn't add more ways to get significant EXP.

Putting aside Bonus Keys and "A World Engulfed in Shadows", I did the 4 featured quests every day with:
-Daily Triboost
-Premium Triboost
-Premium Drink
-75% EXP Boost
-100% EXP Boost (when I had some)
-4% Team Boost (when it was activated)
-25% Triboost with 3 NPCs
-Did most of the featured quests' COs

Adding this to the fact that I did all of Kressida and Franka's COs every week (support partners), this barely gave me half a level. The only reason I managed to get these 9 classes to Lv85 within 8 weeks was by getting 2 levels with "A World Engulfed in Shadows" per class. The rest, I got with Bonus Keys, half of them using meseta (and 10 SG per day for a 2nd shot) and using:

-150% EXP Boost
-125% Triboost
-Daily Triboost
-Premium Triboost
-Premium Drink
-4% Team Boost (when it was activated)

Now that you've seen the dedication it took to get 9 classes to Lv85, would you agree that SEGA try to give us more EXP with COs, EXP Tickets and Enemies? That or guaranteeing a Bonus Key everyday if you do all of the Featured Quests (2 of you're premium)?

[Ceresa]

Have you tried actually gearing and learning the classes and playing them in relevant content...?

In the past 4 weeks I've gained 235 class cubes solely from chasing 14s in forest and the occasional dragon and loser. That's roughly 470 million exp with another 40-50m of bonus key xp towards techer 80>85.

Exp seems pretty fine.

[ArcaneTechs]

take the grind out of the game gotcha (Hans etc client orders giving more exp would be great)

[Dark Mits]

Congratulations on reaching lvl85 on every class!

Disclaimer: All of the following are my opinion, not only for PSO2 but for every PvE online game

No, we do not need more exp. The "ideal' situation would be to earn exp at such rate so that a player who actively tries to max every class, should reach the cap for all of them right before the servers go down for maintenance to apply an even newer level cap. For PSO2 I think they mentioned that they may release lvl90 within the year. This means that players should aim to reach lvl85 in a new class every 3 weeks (or so).


Regarding exp sources and how they should be "balanced":

1) There should not be a single quest or type of quest that is the "best" source for more than 1 of the 3 important things in a game (Experience, Equipment, Currency). If a player can get the most exp (or close to the most exp) and the best equipment in a single quest, then other content existing in the game is devalued. This is why I believe that EQs should give the best Equipment, but should give very low exp for the time investment compared to other sources.

2)If a developer does not want players to burn out running the same content all the time, they must make sure that players do not feel like they do not progress if they do not run the "optimal" quest, or limit how often and how many times it can be run. The 4th Daily Featured quest goes against this because the exp from it is of an order higher than any other available source that isn't a Gold Bonus Key, and it is spammable. Which is why I consider Bonus Keys to be "good" design on this issue: They are limited, and they are a good source for exp alone; they are bad for equipment, they are bad for meseta.

3) Performing actions or selecting paths in a quest that are not of the "go go go" mentality should almost always provide rewards that outscale the possible rewards of "go go go". This is where PSO2 is entirely the opposite; outright ignoring everything and running to the end point provides in 99% of cases the best result in exp, meseta and equipment. It is highly advised to ignore everything in a Free Field or ARKS Quest and run to the end point because of this. At least to me, that's bad game design. It seems that the PSO2 design team also acknowledges this, because they have been designing every new quest since EP3 with gates, where you have to exterminate everything to proceed.

4) Now where do Client Orders fit here? Client orders should encourage spending time in a quest. And they do. Take for example the revised COs for the old Free Fields: 30k for 60 enemies, 30k for 70 enemies. That's like saying that the first 70 enemies in the quest give 857exp extra each. This is 3x-5x the exp they give without any boosts other than 50% daily and 40% party. It's an incentive to both take the CO, and to spend time in the quest to get those 70 enemies. The fact that players still prefer to "go go go" is not because the COs give few exp, it's because the 4th Daily FQ is just too good to pass up.

However, COs that are not "farmable" should provide better rewards. Girard's COs should give a lot more than what they currently do, because outside of events with extremely high propability of a rare enemy appearing, it's almost never worth your time to go to pick these COs. Not only that, they have a cooldown of 6 days 22 hours, unlike Hans's who have only 22 hours. Same for Lottie's, same for that dude with the weather. I'd argue that Franca's orders should also be updated (the old one's give 5k-10k exp, while the newer ones 30k+), because you have to stop and collect drops, which also means that you have to manage space if you only have a backpack of 50 like us Free players.

5) Tickets are another source of exp. Through PSO2es and normal PSO2 play, I get around 87 tickets per month. Let's average it to 3 per day. That's 45k exp per day just for logging in. It seems pretty generous to me.

[XrosBlader821]

because you have to stop and collect drops, which also means that you have to manage space if you only have a backpack of 50 like us Free players

Or you just tell your support partner to do the collecting for you. With Material storage costing SG this is even more manageable on free accounts than ever before.

[Saffran]

Girard COs can be done with EX quests as they have 100% spawn rate. Outside of some oddball enemy, of course. I do agree that they should give more, considering they have such a cooldown.

As for the original poster and question, some tweaking could be done. The Engulfed quest is so broken it's not even funny. It does help to level up, and arguably it was made for us to level up, but it's still so much better than any other option that I do think it's a problem.

Dark Mits made a lot of points that I can agree with, but the bottom line is, spread the rewards out. Otherwise the hamsters will run the exact same wheels all the time and ignore every other one. (same problem with skill trees and play styles actually. I think I'm starting to see a pattern...)

[FantasyHeaven]

No the leveling could take forever for all I care.

[Kondibon]

The "ideal' situation would be to earn exp at such rate so that a player who actively tries to max every class, should reach the cap for all of them right before the servers go down for maintenance to apply an even newer level cap.
I disagree entirely. The level cap should be an achievable goal with enough time to actually experience content at it (which, honestly it has been for active players so I don't see too much of a problem here). Of course I also disagree with constantly increasing the level caps in games and prefer gear based progression, vertical or horizontal, at end game, so eh.

I agree with everything else except the 60/70 mob COs and the tickets. The exp you get from those is a drop in the bucket compared to how much you get just grinding.


Dark Mits made a lot of points that I can agree with, but the bottom line is, spread the rewards out. Otherwise the hamsters will run the exact same wheels all the time and ignore every other one. (same problem with skill trees and play styles actually. I think I'm starting to see a pattern...)I think this is one of the biggest problems with the game. People flock to the most recent content because it's the most rewarding. I've been playing a few other games lately and it feels like PSO2 is comparatively devoid of progression outside of very specific content. I like to get on and just play, but getting on and just playing instead of grinding a specific quest over and over means I'm not actually making any progress towards my goals.

[Dark Mits]

I disagree entirely. The level cap should be an achievable goal with enough time to actually experience content at it (which, honestly it has been for active players so I don't see too much of a problem here).I agree with this, but for a player's desired class and subclass. For example, I agree that players should be able to reach the level cap of their preferred class/subclass combo in less than 5 weeks, and then work with parallel/vertical gear progression as you state.

My point about it needing until the next level cap release refers to capping all the classes. This is not something that a casual player should be working on towards actively, but rather passively and in their free time. A power player who focuses on it should of course reach it a lot quicklier. But the game should not be designed around such playstyle.

[Kondibon]

I agree with this, but for a player's desired class and subclass. For example, I agree that players should be able to reach the level cap of their preferred class/subclass combo in less than 5 weeks, and then work with parallel/vertical gear progression as you state.

My point about it needing until the next level cap release refers to capping all the classes. This is not something that a casual player should be working on towards actively, but rather passively and in their free time. A power player who focuses on it should of course reach it a lot quicklier. But the game should not be designed around such playstyle.I personally feel all the long term power play min-maxing stuff should be relegated to gear/affixing. Getting all your classes to cap doesn't need to be a "hardcore" thing when there's plenty of other long term goals. Leveling in this game at the point we're at is just a means to get more SP and the level 85 skills, some of which, like the Te, and Gu ones feel weird to even have gated that way because of how much they they can change the gameplay up. If those skills didn't require level 85 I don't think I would care as much.

[Zephyrion]

The bottom line is really to either nerf that one exp LQ or buff other levelling content (Advance Quests, other LQs) to at least come remotely close to how efficient that one quest is . The fact that the best exp/time ratio is locked to one of the most mind-numbing quests (since there is literally no variation whatsoever) is kind of a problem. I wouldn't mind running in circles and triggering random e-trials because at this point it at least keeps your brain somewhat alive.

[KaizoKage]

Or you just tell your support partner to do the collecting for you.

What the hell are you saying?! he have a feature like that? omg I didn't know

[Dark Mits]

What the hell are you saying?! he have a feature like that? omg I didn't knowYep, that's how he gains level. My support partner in fact is higher levels than my main character

[Aexorcet]

I wouldn't mind at all. Leveling has never been a big draw for me in MMO's or similar games. I just get it out of the way and then get on to playing the things I like. When I started to try other classes I would have been perfectly fine just starting at the level cap instantly with gear and then focusing on learning how to play them. In my opinion PSO2's strong point when it comes to playing content is its combat system, but mindlessly rushing through quests like World Engulfed with a full MPA doesn't make the most of it. I also have to admit I don't like repetitiveness either. While it would probably not be popular I'd rather level in a really long, diverse quest with a big reward (maybe 1 level per run?) than a fast quest that is run over and over.

[Saffran]

Kaizokage > I have an inkling you don't mean it the same way. You're thinking of letting the Support Partner automatically pick up items, right? If this is a thing it certainly is news to me as well. YOu can however give your Partner some missions (in the my room menu) and ignore quest items altogether.

[TheFanaticViper]

What is the point to cap every classes ASAP? I mean classes you don't play or just for fun. SG reward? to see orange numbers again ?

[Sayara]

Completionist sake I guess.
Im kind of torn about this because leveling up classes, to help understand them (for the most part) is good but forcing to do anything "80/80 only" for most of anything of "Any relevence to progress" is dreadful, and just make the grind that much worse cuz its like, can't do anything unless youre 8080 just burns me out so fast.

[Saffran]

Class perks. We got some extra stats at level 75 cap IIRC, then 80 was a thing for the 80/80 quests, and now we have some extra sauce (85SG and a passive) at level 85, for each class.
I play every class (and apparently I'm bad at all of them) so I want to reach max just to make sure I can unlock everything. Still about 20 millions short for Gu, then fo, te, br, bo left...

[Shoterxx]

If hitting level cap wasn't a requirement for so much stuff, then I'd say it's somewhat fine. Hitting level cap should require effort, much more so to cap them all. But that should be more about bragging rights, rather than a requisite to reach the peak of the game.

[Youmu Konpaku]

i level capped all class just so i can get class cubes faster. i just have really bad luck for RNG with Enchanted Forest Free Field. playing almost all class and get *14 only from crest is a pain. i hope just keep or buff the EXP LQ engulfed of shadows so i can get class cubes faster. i'm glad tough (edited).

[Saffran]

*redacted by the government*
Shhh. Don't say it in public, Sega might hear about it and fix it...

[Youmu Konpaku]

....

ah, sry, i deleted it so please delete may quote .. ^^;

[the_importer_]

Great replies so far everyone. To answer a commun question, it's mainly a goal I set for myself in the game. Some people like to get the new rare weapons when they come out and will hunt like crazy, I like to level cap. As for why this is an issue, well this is why:

https://s33.postimg.cc/or8ms5xq7/E6_ACA1_E383_ACE38399_E383_ABE7_B58_CE9_A893_E580_ A4312_D38302_E706_E67.png

Look at the peak of EXP requirement once you hit Lv76, this is far from being a natural progression. If you had huge-ass stats after Lv75, I would somewhat understand, but no, nothing special when reach that.

[wefwq]

EXP from boosters and tickets is fine. Boosters is easily accessible for very cheap and early, and for tickets you can keep whole stack in your storage so that you can use it later whenever you like it and they will never penalized unlike CO when your class is underleveled. Even if not too glaring, I hope that they rebalance EXP payout of some COs, to make the effort : reward ratio better, especially the older one.
Some level up quest LQ should receive slight buff too, though i wouldn't go that far since SEGA is lazy as hell when it comes to touching older contents.

EXP starting from level 75 is terrible, the curve is way too steep however this is probably because the cap is released quite recently. We can hope that they revise EXP curve after some time in the future, just like what they did back then.

[Flatflyer]

If anything, I think the lvl 50-70 mission EXP should be increased a little bit, ran some stuff trying to get a friend beyond that point and without stuff like bonus keys helping out, it is honestly a not fun experience since it feels like the EXP jump from SH to XH is so huge on some missions.

I'd like to see SH exp values get bumped up a bit higher to make it easier to get over that hump of 60-70, since its kinda a low point in the game right before getting into the main meat of the game (13* weapons etc.).

[Saffran]

The exp to 75 is the same as the exp from 75 to 80. I think it sounded like a neat idea when they decided to extend the limit, but they couldn't replicate it this time.
Quite frankly with all the new weapons and meta I think if anything they should lower the entry (have 13 stars drop more commonly in SH or so) and make the grind more progressive.