Not considered sequels

[StreetFighter2242]

I found out a while ago from TV tropes that one of the original series creators Reiko Kodama Doesn't consider Any of the Post Classic era Phantasy Star games to be considered sequels to the original games, now granted this came from TV tropes so I have no idea where the source came from but I was wondering what do you guys think of this?

[Dark Mits]

They're not sequels. They're different stories set in possibly the same universe. You do not need to have played the originals to understand what's going.

Think of it as the numbered Final Fantasy games.

[landman]

At this point I wouldn't even consider them the same universe, since they will not care to knot all the ends of the story, they just use the lore as they please without caring about continuity. And that's perfectly fine, you don't want to sell a game with 30 years old lore only to a few 30-40 yo players, you want to sell a new and totally independent game to as much players as possible, every single time.

[Anduril]

Well, PSPo2i's PSO1 sidestory and Emilia&Vivienne's appearance in PSO2 have the games tied together via Subspace in what basically seems like a comics-style multiverse.

[landman]

Yes, and that's why we should not consider them in the same universe, subspace is basically a means to move between universes, and Emilia changed the story of Ragol, basically nothing happened because they stopped falz before Rico was killed, which either totally removes PSO+Zero story or creates another universe (the same way PSIII creates 4 timelines/universes if all of them are canon). Until episode 4 I was considering PSO2 to be the ancient story of Great Light and Profound Darkness, until they put TOKYO SCHOOLGIRLS which totally destroys any possible connections unless there are multiple universes with multiple earths and multiple profound darkness. I don't even know if Omega has memories from the past AND future or from multiple universes where photons reach either, it makes no sense for PS1 characters to be there in a universe where the PD is basically rampant.

[Anduril]

Yeah, I basically see it akin more specifically to DC's Multiverse and Hypertime where you may or may not have a "prime" universe that all other universes echo in some way to explain why there are similar, yet different, themes, places, and beings. That allows for things like the PS1 characters in Omega actually being representations of the PSO2 universe's versions of them (who could very well have been Photoners based on what Omega is supposed to be) rather than of the original characters. It also allows me to believe that Nyau comes from a Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew style universe in the multiverse, and he is just a member of that universe's version of the Musk Cat race.

[Zipzo]

A lot of Phantasy Star Online, PSU, and PSP story seems to infer that there's an interdimensional connection between all the Phantasy Star worlds, with Dark Force (or Dark Falz whatever you wanna call him) being the chief example of an etity who can willfully cross in-between them. That's why a lot of the planets have similar names and eco-systems in alignment with those names, similar society from planet to planet with similar currency, and all that other what-not.

In PSU, there was a VR mission that was basically a recreation of data that they retrieved from a battle with Dark Falz in his middle-inter-dimensional boss fight area or whatever, and the mission was basically a remaster of a lot of the old PSO zones, ie forest, caves, mines, ruins. Then of course we have the straight up obvious gimme reference in PSP2i with Flowen and Rico.

So aside from trivia and easter eggs (iconic weapons, notably), there hasn't been such a direct connection made between the clearly-connected PSO/PSU multi-verse, and the classic Phantasy Star worlds, but I guess the natural assumption is that their connection is made in pretty much the same way given the near limitless possibilities when you're dealing with a multi-verse. If you ask me, multi-verses are kind of the lazy way to go about things, but it's not that big a deal, because I've hardly ever played Phantasy Star for the story anyway.

[landman]

Multiple universes can actually have interesting connections, an example would be xenoblade 1 2, X and other Xeno games, where basically something (akin to the 2001 space odyssey monolith) from another dimension gives a lot of power, and someone even uses this power to see the birth of a new universe. They will never make a clear line between all the series, since one is square, the other namco and the other one nintendo, sega does not have that problem but they just don't care.

Gurhal is just fanservice, in the end in psp2 we just discover it's a breeding place for an ancient race to be reborn using them as hosts after 20 millennia, the fact the system is similar to algol, that there are newman and CASTs, an people named to algolian characters is pure coincidence / fanservice, and in the end I think omega is the same.

[Anduril]

I feel multiverses make for some more creative writing potential and help avoid writing yourself into a corner becuase of established continuity or having to ret-con stuff to fit the new stuff.
The retconning of Gurhal as a breeding experiment for the Ancients is one of my biggest gripes as it actually killed the potential connection to the classic series established in the webcomic that they put out bridging PSUEp1 and AotI where it was stated that Humanity came to Gurhal from elsewhere in the universe (possibly via the Neo Palm in one of the endings where it isn't destroyed).

[Zipzo]

Multiple universes can actually have interesting connections, an example would be xenoblade 1 2, X and other Xeno games, where basically something (akin to the 2001 space odyssey monolith) from another dimension gives a lot of power, and someone even uses this power to see the birth of a new universe. They will never make a clear line between all the series, since one is square, the other namco and the other one nintendo, sega does not have that problem but they just don't care.

Gurhal is just fanservice, in the end in psp2 we just discover it's a breeding place for an ancient race to be reborn using them as hosts after 20 millennia, the fact the system is similar to algol, that there are newman and CASTs, an people named to algolian characters is pure coincidence / fanservice, and in the end I think omega is the same.

Xeno has done plenty to bridge the connections in their multiverse though and they do have that ability, because the Xenoblade games are all in their own universe by themselves. This was pretty much doubled down on with the various DLCs added, and yeah you could just say "Doesn't count, it's fan service", a lot of the smaller details of those DLC such as things said by Elma especially, indicate that while yes, it is fan service, it wasn't purpose-less.

True, they don't seemingly have the ability to link up to Xenogears and Saga, due to licensing, but either way, the connections are pretty clear given the shape of the monolith is un-touched between the games lol. There's even a bald-faced connection to Xenogears made in Xenoblade 2 text in the package with Mythra's mech model sold in Japan.

Phantasy Star edges on having a similar narrative space to work with, but it doesn't seem as though they have nearly the scope of inspiration for how they want it to play out that they would need to for the story to be...truly intriguing.

Shame though, I do remember back when PSO was current, thinking that so much of the backstory was super interesting. There's just something about large, lovecraftian webs of the unknown that really suck you in and make you want to know more, ya know.

[landman]

I had to watch some bits of the shadow of the arkguard (https://youtu.be/FtLpjkLxl0o?t=16m16s) to remember lol I think to remember that at some point in Episode 2, either because the ones talking were illiterate or something (was it Tonnio? can't remember), but the player had more info of the real history of Gurhal than the actual characters, they didn't even know the races where human engineered. Of course the illuminus would explain this in their supremacist way, and Lunz way of explaining is also off from the previously known official history of Guthal (http://psupedia.info/History_of_Gurhal.html), where only the existence of the ruins and the confinement system point to an ancient civilisation, speculating they came from the starts instead of being native to Parum is quite an imagination on his part. But then of course, the symbols on the ruins make us remember of the espers in Algol, the same way as the Muut Dits Poumn in PSO, we could still establish the ancients are from Algolian origin. But I completely forgot what that Pioneer lookalike was in Infinity...

The Xenoblade 2 DLC is fanservice indeed, as stated by the Nopon Sage himself lol the case of Elma is exactly the same as the Persona Dancing games "you are dreaming, you will forget everything it's happening there, so just dance!" :wacko: but just sticking to the main story it's obvious there are connections I won't detail since they are hard spoilers, and XCX on its own talks at least about an ancient civilization that came from another universe and dominated the galaxies around (then there is the fan speculation that Mira is the Bionis / Mechonis world, AND provably in a different dimension than X intro (which MAY be xenogears universe), since even Time Travellers can't escape, AND provably the origin of the ancient civilization, which would make Shulk and Elma be in the same world, but extremely separated in time, but that's not a problem for the Nopon Sage).

[Zipzo]

This is extremely off-topic but I can't resist a Xenoblade lore romp. I've spent a great deal of time going over the information we have and I've played Xeno games to obsession so I'm one of the best people to talk on this. I'll tell you what I've come up with.

We know how 1 and 2 are connected, that's given to us. The connection to X is however not as clear, leaving people to try and piece together a link, but it's 100% there. Elma as a blade in 2 has a lot of dialogue that's extremely curious and forthcoming but as you said it's fanservice so I'll try to ignore it.

X speaks of an ancient civilization (Samarrians) that essentially "appeared" and dominated their region of the universe and ultimately took residence on Mira. We find out in side-quests that Samarrians are basically 100% identical to humans (key word, not that they ARE humans, but biologically identical).

It's right in front of our faces. We have the nopons speaking of an ancient hero (who used a very curiously monado-like-looking weapon), and an escapee Telethia, fashionably named "the endbringer" because that's what its purpose was...

The homs, after the revelation of Xenoblade's conclusion, eventually discovered a way to leave their dimension, and popped in to the timeline of X's story in faaar distant past. Homs = Samarrians.

Homs took up shop on Mira and brought with them a few envoys of Nopon migrants, who persisted on Mira to this day.

Homs either died out or hopped to another dimension again, leaving Mira altered by their interdimensional presence and whatever else they had going on at Mira (remember, the civilization was absolutely advanced as hell, think the giant structures in Oblivia like the huge ring).

So yeah, multi-dimensional stuff can definitely be interesting, but the writers have to be inspired to make the connections with artistry.

Phantasy Star hasn't really done that well IMO, they're just falling on it as a way to Easter egg a lot of elements between games. It's just a single plain way for them to link Dark Falz as a frequently returning enemy in all the games. There's no actual interesting interaction between these dimensions that we can field like in a series like Xeno.

[PrinceBrightstar]

There are still so many things that could still happen for Phantasy Star. Personally if they ever go back to Algol, I'd like to see a game centered around how Waiss unified Palma.

But in terms of OPs post, there is something that needs to be considered. Reiko Kodama may actually be right. The events that are playing out now in PSO2, what if it's all a prequel to the Algol series and the battle between the ARKS and Shiva is the battle that was spoken of in the intro to End of the Millenium?

[StreetFighter2242]

*Sighs* I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the odds of that actually being the case is next to nothing.

Although there may be a chance..... Only for something to happen where a new game is made that ' de cannonizes PSO2 if it really were to be whatever it is you're saying..

[landman]

If PSO2 ends with Harriet creating a star and 3 planets as a seal to the final prison for the PD, then we will have a lot of fun speculation to do again.

[thepeaguy83]

I'm surprised these discussions have been ongoing for 20 years.

When Yuji Naka was head of Sonic Team, he decided to reboot the series to promote the online capabilities of the Sega Dreamcast. (He was also one of the creators of the original series, as he was their main programmer.)

The main villain of the original series - The Profound Darkness - has been vanquished for good in IV. The story has been wrapped up back in 1993. (Kodama discussed ideas with her colleagues to create a sequel to expand upon the relationship between the adversarial gods of Light and Dark, but that has never come into fruition.)

While the modern games borrow concepts from the classic games, they're based on their own continuity.

[landman]

The main villain of the original series - The Profound Darkness - has been vanquished for good in IV. The story has been wrapped up back in 1993.

And yet, Phantasy Star 3 takes place a millennia after Phantasy Star 4, PD away or not, little falzes are still around destroying spaceships, being sealed by swords, and unsealed to be fought again. The original chronology (that is, the Japanese one, English games were mistranslated) of the classic series is not closed at all, if a sealed Falz in the Alisa 3 survived when PD was destroyed, other falzes could too, just like... a certain falz sealed into a spaceship that was buried on Ragol, with monolith's texts describing 1000 years resurrection cycles and with an image at the ending that hint's an esper like figure sealing falz in a monolith using the psychowand.