Primordial Glare from the Void - Final Raid

[ArcaneTechs]

Discuss, did you like it? hate it? was it a good farewell Raid? etc

9/10

REALLY REALLY wish Sega would put this level of effort into every single raid this game has had in the past (and hoping NGS is on this level). Absolutely loved this Raid, it just felt fun as hell to run the entire time and just brings me back to PD and Persona raid days. Don't really have any complaints about it really atm, looking forward to it every time.

Now I await the solo Sodam fight (hopefully its in the new XQ)

[Kondibon]

Calling it now. Unless they added new stuff that wasn't in the story version everyone is going to call it easy and boring. The fight is really cool, but it isn't mechanically complex.
We'll probably get some people complaining about the oneshots from the platforms being destroyed, or not immediately knowing the mechanics in the second phase.

[Ransu]

Calling it now. Unless they added new stuff that wasn't in the story version everyone is going to call it easy and boring. The fight is really cool, but it isn't mechanically complex.
We'll probably get some people complaining about the oneshots from the platforms being destroyed, or not immediately knowing the mechanics in the second phase.

Probably this tbh. The fight itself in the story is just running back and forth between weak points and the DPS check is extremely lenient so it'll probably never even go off either. If people complain about one shots though then they probably are blind to the flashing red indicators.

[Kondibon]

Is there a DPS check? I remember them outright saying there wouldn't be.

[B00mt00b]

There -was- one instance in the Gom fight where you're face to face and he spends a long amount of time charging a lazer ight before he falls back down. Never bothered standing there long enough to find out if it is a DPS check, but it felt like one.

[the_importer_]

Calling it now. Unless they added new stuff that wasn't in the story version everyone is going to call it easy and boring. The fight is really cool, but it isn't mechanically complex.
We'll probably get some people complaining about the oneshots from the platforms being destroyed, or not immediately knowing the mechanics in the second phase.

Ya probably just going to be a giant sponge. But hey, 3 titles and a new weapon line.

[echofaith]

Dunno what went wrong, but last phase started with half map with white juice doing damage over time and then 30 secs in, whole map has it. MPA kept dying for a whole 4 mins while doing minimal dps between deaths. Long EQ compared to say Persona(but better than Deus at least) and drops were meh(not even a 14). Bad first impression ):

[cheapgunner]

Looking at the new 15^ and the upgraded 15^ for trade-in, I like the damaghe reduction added to it. If I was honest, I'd make a Rod one for FoHu rod smacking just for the memes.

[Ransu]

Over 1 billion HP with both phases accounted for. Kinda fun fight, specifically the Sodam Phase. The cutscene after beating it was really nice with the music added in. But was immediately followed up with mediocre drops. I give it a 7/10 for being fun and somewhat challenging.

[the_importer_]

Dunno what went wrong, but last phase started with half map with white juice doing damage over time and then 30 secs in, whole map has it. MPA kept dying for a whole 4 mins while doing minimal dps between deaths. Long EQ compared to say Persona(but better than Deus at least) and drops were meh(not even a 14). Bad first impression ):

Well I don't think anyone was expecting a 3rd phase. Hell, even his final punching bag stance does 1 hit kills. The sad part is that I had 922% rare drop boost on me, that fight lasted close to 30 minutes and all I got for my trouble was 5x 13★ weapons 😭

To add fuel to the fire, I had some Lv87 guy who joined my party, died more than anyone else and probably hid in a corner at some point because his HP stopped lowering and my S&D boost stopped reaching him. Expert mode, right !! 😤

[Kondibon]

I need to replace all my atlas weapons with Ayer now. I dunno how much I'm looking forward to that.


Dunno what went wrong, but last phase started with half map with white juice doing damage over time and then 30 secs in, whole map has it. MPA kept dying for a whole 4 mins while doing minimal dps between deaths. Long EQ compared to say Persona(but better than Deus at least) and drops were meh(not even a 14). Bad first impression ):

The last phase is a DPS race, if you do enough damage then you push it back. I personally prefer how long it is considering it's the last big boss EQ in the game.

[the_importer_]

The last phase is a DPS race, if you do enough damage then you push it back. I personally prefer how long it is considering it's the last big boss EQ in the game.

Well it's good that you enjoyed it, because you need to kill it 49 more times to unlock all the titles for it :p

[echofaith]

Apparently deaths count toward rank. So if the MPA is bad not only it will take slightly longer than usual, but it will cause your rank to plummet if last phase gets fully white and sticky(quite sure sega did this on purpose v: ). Lately my MPAs has been very meh but since they dont affect drops I didnt really mind. But I guess this time it will be both a long and painful ride ):

[Tyreek]

Was this not the case for every other boss? Anyway, I quite welcomed this new final phase for this boss. Kept the fight from being predictable like the story mode iteration. Seeing as this is supposed the be actual finale of PSO2, I was under the expectation that it would be as dramatic as possible.

[Kondibon]

Can the goo even cover the whole arena? I saw it get far, but it still left a little space.


Well it's good that you enjoyed it, because you need to kill it 49 more times to unlock all the titles for it :p

I know, I assumed as much when they said the eye stones would come from a title.

[the_importer_]

I know, I assumed as much when they said the eye stones would come from a title.

Yup, and in a year, they'll hand those out like candies :p

[Kondibon]

In a year we'll probably be playing NGS.

[the_importer_]

In a year we'll probably be playing NGS.

I have no intention of starting this new game, I'm still playing PSO2 for completion sake. Once I hit Lv100 with my main character in all classes and unlock all the titles that I can, I'll retire and play some good old Offline games 😁

Not saying that I won't log on the old PSO2 once in a blue moon if I miss it, but after all of these years, I can't wait to dive into my huge backlog.

[echofaith]

Yeah, goo can go full arena. Happened to my first run which basically means tons of deaths and lower rank. Second run went better thankfully and sticky got pushed back, but still got bad drops despite no deaths this time. Bright side is that by the 50th clear, you will have enough materials for 3 full weapons so if I get the units before then, I can skip this quest altogether afterward :p

[the_importer_]

Hmm, 1 down 5 to go I guess

[spoiler-box]https://i.postimg.cc/BbsjvsP7/pso20200902-082746-005.png[/spoiler-box]

[silo1991]

Hmm, 1 down 5 to go I guess

[spoiler-box]https://i.postimg.cc/BbsjvsP7/pso20200902-082746-005.png[/spoiler-box]

how the hell you got that weapon in day 1 if profound erebos stones are the main limitation here :O

i liked this raid , beautiful just like original PD , i dont know if this is normal but when i fought the hunar form i didnt saw the cinematic , is there a cinematic in that part or it bug out for me ?

[echofaith]

The first clear gets you 10 stones from title. EQ seems to drop 6-10 based in both rank and RNG, so 2 clears should guarantee one Ayer. Havent done proper math but Ayer seems to be close or even better than Puras and muuuch easier to get so is perfect for alts.

[the_importer_]

The first clear gets you 10 stones from title. EQ seems to drop 6-10 based in both rank and RNG, so 2 clears should guarantee one Ayer. Havent done proper math but Ayer seems to be close or even better than Puras and muuuch easier to get so is perfect for alts.

Ya, but too bad that just like Puras and Still weapons, we'll have to play that fucking Divided Quest to get the material. Oh well, woke up early during my vacation time to play those 3 rounds, back to sleep bed now 😴

[quickasker]

ever since this eq comes around, Grind Cap +1 that i hoarded a month ago about 4-6mil a pop now sold at 15M. oy vey such profit!

[KaizoKage]

ever since this eq comes around, Grind Cap +1 that i hoarded a month ago about 4-6mil a pop now sold at 15M. oy vey such profit!

my biggest regret even tho I got 100m in the storage, I should have hoarded some too :<

[Ransu]

3 runs and still haven't seen any notable drops outside of some 13* trash that wasn't even 8s. Barely any Origin or Shiva Glare either. Maybe it's just my luck though.

[KaizoKage]

oh yah, forgot the mention. The other new weapon series which are called "Nike" are Phobos weapon recolored (similar color scheme to Nova weapons I think)

[NightlightPro]

one of the funniest Raid Boss i must say
i don't see the point of players retiring from the EQ
mpa turned out like 8/12

[echofaith]

If you die too much, your rank and drops get worse, so I would assume some people rather leave and try again if that happened to them. This EQ is too long though, so depending on how far it is, I wouldnt take such risks.

[the_importer_]

one of the funniest Raid Boss i must say
i don't see the point of players retiring from the EQ
mpa turned out like 8/12

lol, it's Magatsu all over again.

[NightlightPro]

you cannot go back to campship once dying
so you can't do anything but retire if others players don't revive you

[the_importer_]

you cannot go back to campship once dying
so you can't do anything but retire if others players don't revive you

Oh, well now, guess SEGA wanted to sell some Scapedolls while the AC is the relevant in this game :p

[mother clusterfck]

Was 2nd phase also a gigantic clusterf*** for you guys where you got interrupted most times you tried to heal and literally every second there were several explosions on screen and you got hit most of the time from off screen multiple times?

And is the massive HP boost in phase 3 supposed to happen after 3/4 or more of phase 3 is over?

I was in a 55 minute run (only one I did) and while it was obvious that damage was low cause half the mpa was constantly dead, it was confusing as hell why the boss was spamming extreme cheap shots nonstop that constantly killed everyone without even the option to go back to ship to stock up on moons.

TBH not sure if some people just didn't use moons for a long time or if there was an autorevive every 5+ minutes but sure as hell felt like pay to win.
I only died a few times but twice I had to wait for several minutes in phase 3 cause I died near the boss and then a 2nd time because resta was too slow to counter instant death.

I'm wondering if this was some kind of lag (didn't feel like anything special, nothing that would cause any real problems in other boss eqs) or what the hell happened, cause a friend of mine did non expert once in 21 and once in 38 minutes.

[Loveless62]

If you die too much, your rank and drops get worse, so I would assume some people rather leave and try again if that happened to them. This EQ is too long though, so depending on how far it is, I wouldnt take such risks.
That's interesting, since I think the rule is still in effect that you can be banned when you leave or disconnect from EQs too many times.

[the_importer_]

So does big ugly drop Luminmech Emer Fragments, or are we stuck doing Divided Quests after all?

[Klubbah]

And is the massive HP boost in phase 3 supposed to happen after 3/4 or more of phase 3 is over?


That is one of the possible bonuses that happen after breaking all the yellow rings(?) on the boss' fingers, Matoi will buff everyone. Otherwise Harriet can do like a single 8 million damage(?) or Hitsugi stuns the boss for a while. Can break them at least 2 times in one run for 2 possible outcomes, have not seen 3 in one run.

[Meteor Weapon]

Its just the first day, people will get used to it and start punching bag the boss like any other bosses.

[Gwyndolin]

EQ got people's panties in a bunch as per usual it seems. Anyways, I enjoyed the encounter, felt appropriate for a last boss. I'll eventually get what I need from it over time. I'm not really trying too hard because as was mentioned it will only get easier to acquire over time. I'm using Stil weapons and it doesn't seem a huge jump for me, especially since I think Stil wand is still better because of the S5 for Etoile. Mainly just want the units so I can make my super units and sail into the sunset and into NGS.

[TehCubey]

Sounds like pre-nerf Deus all over again. People complaining about the difficulty and taking 30+ minutes to clear. Non-expert MPAs, not even once.

So, did anyone get Matoi or Harriet to show up? I only got Hitsugi so far.

[Ransu]

Sounds like pre-nerf Deus all over again. People complaining about the difficulty and taking 30+ minutes to clear. Non-expert MPAs, not even once.

So, did anyone get Matoi or Harriet to show up? I only got Hitsugi so far.

Got Matoi on my first run. She gives a massive HP increase and doubles your PP.

[Ezodagrom]

So, did anyone get Matoi or Harriet to show up? I only got Hitsugi so far.
I got Harriet in my first run, she did a 7.8m damage attack against the boss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ZmIBSRk04#t=17m27s

[ArcaneTechs]

going to have to make a poison/burn Xie weapon just for pug runs, man what i drag

[Kondibon]

What do poison and burn do in the fight?

[Meteor Weapon]

Sounds like pre-nerf Deus all over again. People complaining about the difficulty and taking 30+ minutes to clear. Non-expert MPAs, not even once.

Pre-nerf Deus difficulty was great as a climax raid boss ngl, until people start complaining to nerf it, it got really boring.

[Ransu]

What do poison and burn do in the fight?

Each Burn/Poison tick deals 10m damage. You can carry with that alone.

[Kondibon]

Each Burn/Poison tick deals 10m damage. You can carry with that alone.Wait, what? Status effects work on it??

EDIT: According the S-wiki it's only burn, and only on the last phase with the goop, but that's still a pretty big deal, and would probably explain why some runs go so dramatically better than others in that part.

[otakun]

This must be why we got the gunslash in Beach Wars.

[ArcaneTechs]

This must be why we got the gunslash in Beach Wars.

X for Doubt

[TehCubey]

Pre-nerf Deus difficulty was great as a climax raid boss ngl, until people start complaining to nerf it, it got really boring.

Agreed. Kinda a shame it got nerfed so quickly but I was there in the first, pre-nerf week and no one can take that memory away from me.



EDIT: According the S-wiki it's only burn, and only on the last phase with the goop, but that's still a pretty big deal, and would probably explain why some runs go so dramatically better than others in that part.

Burn and poison.

[Vatallus]

The fight is worth the 20 minutes it took.

[Gwyndolin]

I think my issue with Deus was Gracia pugs that were generally abysmal with the death counter almost always maxing out and the quest failing. Even on expert. Ain't nobody got time for that.

[GHNeko]

damn shit wont drop my arm

great boss tho

fuck sodom because he fucks over elemental stance lmao

[Loyd Azakuya]

The quest is quite fun, I really liked it, I was hoping there would be a third phase and I'm glad I was correct
The only bad thing is that the drops are really bad

[Ransu]

damn shit wont drop my arm

great boss tho

fuck sodom because he fucks over elemental stance lmao

Break SD still works just fine but I get what you mean really. Bo stances are way too conditional for that fight.

[echofaith]

So after several runs and understanding how it works, only phase I can enjoy fully is the 2nd. The 1st is thematically good and gameplay was good the first few times, but is basically a scripted quest to avoid OHKO and hitting a pinata, so is just tedious after a while. The 2nd phase I like because the boss isnt too hard, but isnt a pushover either. His random 1hko I would have expected to be annoying, but they make the battle less boring overall.

The 3rd phase is acceptable, but I am kinda biased(traumatized) because my first mpa didnt know about the rings and pushing boss back(which is fair, being 1st run and all). The mpa wasnt even bad afterall, as they did managed to DPS the phase faster than other smoother MPAs I had after, despite dying every 6 seconds due to white juice. Thematically is the best phase, but gameplay wise is kinda meh(better than 1st phase though)

Overall though, I dont like it very much. The quest takes too long(with 1/3 being super boring), which on itself isnt bad cause is only 1 run anyway and I dont multiship, but that also means dcing will make getting a clear much harder compared to shorter EQs. That coupled with the fact that drops are crap regardless of rank makes this one of my most disliked EQs. Still not as bad as Deus though :p

[the_importer_]

..because my first mpa didnt know about the rings...

What do you mean by "the rings"?

[Coatl]

last phase he has rings on each of his fingers. breaking them all stuns him and lets you beat on him, usually resulting in killing him and completing the mission. it's completely possible to not do this and kill him anyway, but the fight takes much longer this way.

[the_importer_]

last phase he has rings on each of his fingers. breaking them all stuns him and lets you beat on him, usually resulting in killing him and completing the mission. it's completely possible to not do this and kill him anyway, but the fight takes much longer this way.

I see, thanks.

[Zeota]

I agree that the loot could've been a little better, but I did enjoy this fight. For an "end-of-episode" raid boss, I think they did a great job. Also had a nice "end of an era" feel to it, for what it's worth. I hope they put the same amount of care into these encounters in NGS.

[Suirano]

damn shit wont drop my arm

great boss tho

fuck sodom because he fucks over elemental stance lmao

Yeah, I noticed that Sodam has no elemental weakness in Phase 2. That sucked since I mostly use JBs. Never tried to see if Break Stance was worth using in that but man come on, couldn't have at least changed his elemental weakness per field change or something?

Also, total fun at the end where if you don't meet the DPS threshold, Sodam spams a OHKO shockwave over and over again until it dies. I enjoy the fight overall. It's fun and feels like a final boss but I do see people's argument of expecting more. Surprised the final phase didn't use the vocal version of "The Whole New World".

[Anduril]

I've only been able to run it twice, and the first run was rough, but the second one went much better. Overall, I love the aesthetic of the entire fight (especially having the NPCs in the waiting areas) and it really did feel like a finale without overdoing the mid-fight cutscenes (*coughDEUSESCAcough*).

Also, am I the only one who finds Sodam's design to be weirdly beautiful?

[GHNeko]

Break SD still works just fine but I get what you mean really. Bo stances are way too conditional for that fight.

FiBo so no Break SD for me!



Yeah, I noticed that Sodam has no elemental weakness in Phase 2. That sucked since I mostly use JBs. Never tried to see if Break Stance was worth using in that but man come on, couldn't have at least changed his elemental weakness per field change or something?

He fucks over my Ripper/PW affixes so I REALLY get bodied when it comes to damage output.

[Ransu]

FiBo so no Break SD for me!

That takes an actual madman to be using nowadays so my hat is off to you.

[GHNeko]

That takes an actual madman to be using nowadays so my hat is off to you.

It aint that bad. Class is really good actually.

[ArcaneTechs]

the only thing so far that i dont like about the raid is the shitty drop rates, i mean ya 15* drops understandable, same with the units but the fact i can go a run with no rainbow drops, anywhere from 1-3 drops with 700% RDR+ is just ridiculous

[Kondibon]

The drops wouldn't be so bad if they at least threw in more resources. There's MAYBE one decent affix fodder every once in a while, but not enough stuff drops for that to even be reliable. There aren't a bunch of dim weapons to desynth even.

[Ransu]

Hopefully they address this soon or maybe it was just intended for the drop rates to be this way. I just find it weird that more units have dropped than camos or even the weapons. Spending 10 - 15 minutes just to get nothing is really annoying.

[the_importer_]

Hopefully they address this soon or maybe it was just intended for the drop rates to be this way. I just find it weird that more units have dropped than camos or even the weapons. Spending 10 - 15 minutes just go get nothing is really annoying.

All I can say is that after my 50 raids, I'll probably be done with this quest unless they give us better drops.

[Zulastar]

It reminds me the time when old PD was released: I got first 13* drop from it only after 2 years.

[echofaith]

They should really buff the rewards, even if its just junk 13/14* weapons for cubing or desynths. I remember Armada giving more 13* than this, though I guess that was also longer overall. At this point I dont even care about an Ayer dropping, I just want the units but they are as rare as always. Wiki says that units will be added later in an exchange, but not sure where they got that info and if its reliable or not. Hoping is true though.

Kinda unrelated but this new final weapon is good and all, but feels kinda meh for being THE final weapon. The pot switching itself brings a slight downtime which can be super annoying for certain classes(Force, or Rangers who want to keep their WB)and then it lasts 30 seconds with another 30 seconds of cooldown afterwards, not to mention you also lose the PP reduction and healing. It feels only slightly better than Stil which I guess was the goal, but at the same time is kinda a down if this is the last thing we are getting. I am hoping Stil gets another upgrade(with tons of farming to keep the tradition) that will surpass this.

[Kondibon]

I don't see any need for significant power creep, since, unless NGS flops, the game probably isn't going to get anything that would need it anyway.
I'm not sure what you mean by losing pp reduction and healing though, the Cras weapons have s1-5 and still have the Ayer pot effects. You can easily fit some healing into one of the SSA slots, and you always get the 20% pp cost reduction/20 pp every 10 seconds. The 3 normal attacks are just for the extra damage, super armor, and damage reduction, but even without those, the weapons are still good.

[ArcaneTechs]

I don't see any need for significant power creep, since, unless NGS flops, the game probably isn't going to get anything that would need it anyway.

its literally the last raid of the game, there SHOULD BE massive power creep compared to Stil series. Theres no reason this should only be marginally better than Stil weapons either.

and lately I've been reading a lot of people dont like the way Cras pot works and apparently in some weapons, Stil beats it but the difference isnt too significant? idk but with the amount of complaining people are doing, they'll likely buff the pot in some way. I dont have the weapon yet so I cant actually say anything about this myself (only like half way there for my space rock)


They should really buff the rewards, even if its just junk 13/14* weapons for cubing or desynths. I remember Armada giving more 13* than this, though I guess that was also longer overall. At this point I dont even care about an Ayer dropping, I just want the units but they are as rare as always. Wiki says that units will be added later in an exchange, but not sure where they got that info and if its reliable or not. Hoping is true though

Agreed

and ya I read the same thing about the units being added later on, when? no clue, no one knows, probably when NGS is out and no one cares about PSO2 anymore lol

[echofaith]

The way I understood it is that if you trigger the 3 attacks buff, you replace the whole base pot for the new one, so PP reduction and PP healing is gone during those 30 seconds. So you would get around 6% damage extra, damage reduction and super armor, but lose the PP benefits.

If the PP part does stack at least which is what I was expecting originally, then yeah, it would be an insane pot. But at least from the translated moonspeak in the wiki, it seems there is no stacking. For classes that dont use normals(or ranger) the boost is quite small for the trade off. Is not a bad pot at all, I just think is disappointing for the final series.

[Kondibon]

its literally the last raid of the game, there SHOULD BE massive power creep compared to Stil series. Theres no reason this should only be marginally better than Stil weapons either. But why? To do what with?


The way I understood it is that if you trigger the 3 attacks buff, you replace the whole base pot for the new one, so PP reduction and PP healing is gone during those 30 seconds. So you would get around 6% damage extra, damage reduction and super armor, but lose the PP benefits.

If the PP part does stack at least which is what I was expecting originally, then yeah, it would be an insane pot. But at least from the translated moonspeak in the wiki, it seems there is no stacking. For classes that dont use normals(or ranger) the boost is quite small for the trade off. Is not a bad pot at all, I just think is disappointing for the final series.

I just checked the wiki, they do mention that the other pot effect is lost. Which is honestly really lame. :I

[ArcaneTechs]

But why? To do what with?

do you not play other RPGs or games in general where beating the last boss gives you the most OP weapon in the game? (excluding niche stuff that can make op weapons), its like asking why give this OP weapon to the player for beating the game? dont reward them for finishing. Especially if NG+ is a thing, let the player feel OP, thats the point

in this case with PSO2, its the final raid, massive power creep should be a given regardless if current content calls for it or not. theres still going to be new content to do, especially that new XQ which while doing with Stil, I'm sure most people would want to use Cras instead or Meta gear along with w/e other content people are working on (Endless, etc). people expect big power creeps from Raids like this, why put something thats only for example, 1-5% stronger than Stil out as a final goodbye raid? underwhelming for a series especially with how hard its time gated and currently only one being obtainable whereas Stil is basically obtainable any time (barring people who lack certain weapons for not playing the game or w/e reason they have)

I mean we could look at WoW gear, every expansion just destroys w/e current Meta gear thats out, its what gets the players working toward BiS stuff over and over but Sega decided against that and insisted on the Plus pots instead which personally, dont care but eventually let that gear die, stop buffing it consistently over time because its less incentive for people to bother with the newer gear when they can just not play because they know Sega will buff the old gear anyways

[Kondibon]

do you not play other RPGs or games in general where beating the last boss gives you the most OP weapon in the game? (excluding niche stuff that can make op weapons), its like asking why give this OP weapon to the player for beating the game? dont reward them for finishing. Especially if NG+ is a thing, let the player feel OP, thats the point

in this case with PSO2, its the final raid, massive power creep should be a given regardless if current content calls for it or not. theres still going to be new content to do, especially that new XQ which while doing with Stil, I'm sure most people would want to use Cras instead or Meta gear along with w/e other content people are working on (Endless, etc). people expect big power creeps from Raids like this, why put something thats only for example, 1-5% stronger than Stil out as a final goodbye raid? underwhelming for a series especially with how hard its time gated and currently only one being obtainable whereas Stil is basically obtainable any time (barring people who lack certain weapons for not playing the game or w/e reason they have)

I mean we could look at WoW gear, every expansion just destroys w/e current Meta gear thats out, its what gets the players working toward BiS stuff over and over but Sega decided against that and insisted on the Plus pots instead which personally, dont care but eventually let that gear die, stop buffing it consistently over time because its less incentive for people to bother with the newer gear when they can just not play because they know Sega will buff the old gear anywaysI guess I've just never really seen the appeal of just raw power, over utility. Making my numbers really big doesn't make me feel as "OP" as letting me do things I couldn't do before. I'm not happy with the pot either, but not because it doesn't blow Stil out of the water or anything.
The idea of a weapon that gives you super armor, pp costs reductions, pp regeneration, all 5 weapon SSA slots, and has good stats is way more interesting to me than if it just made my damage waaaaaaay higher or something. My only complaints are that both parts of the pot aren't active at once, and it doesn't synergize well with certain classes.
I wouldn't complain if they were crazy strong or anything, I just don't see why it's "disappointing" that they're not.
The comparison to WoW feels kinda moot though, WoW (and most mmos of that style) typically don't have unique effects on equipment. They're pure stat sticks, which isn't the case in PSO2. I personally feel that games like PSO2 benefit more from focusing on differences in type rather than differences in scale, and raw power creep really takes away from that.

TL;DR: I think a weapon that does almost every basic utility thing is more interesting as a final weapon for PSO2's design than having a huge raw power gap.

[ArcaneTechs]

I guess I've just never really seen the appeal of just raw power, over utility. Making my numbers really big doesn't make me feel as "OP" as letting me do things I couldn't do before. I'm not happy with the pot either, but not because it doesn't blow Stil out of the water or anything.
The idea of a weapon that gives you super armor, pp costs reductions, pp regeneration, all 5 weapon SSA slots, and has good stats is way more interesting to me than if it just made my damage waaaaaaay higher or something. My only complaints are that both parts of the pot aren't active at once, and it doesn't synergize well with certain classes.
I wouldn't complain if they were crazy strong or anything, I just don't see why it's "disappointing" that they're not.
The comparison to WoW feels kinda moot though, WoW (and most mmos of that style) typically don't have unique effects on equipment. They're pure stat sticks, which isn't the case in PSO2. I personally feel that games like PSO2 benefit more from focusing on differences in type rather than differences in scale, and raw power creep really takes away from that.

TL;DR: I think a weapon that does almost every basic utility thing is more interesting as a final weapon for PSO2's design than having a huge raw power gap.

i agree with your utility view and after knowing that we dont get to have those utilities on all at once is kinda dumb, i absolutely want all this on the weapon, S1-5 etc but i also want a good power jump on top of it all, not something minor to the series before it.

[Kondibon]

i agree with your utility view and after knowing that we dont get to have those utilities on all at once is kinda dumb, i absolutely want all this on the weapon, S1-5 etc but i also want a good power jump on top of it all, not something minor to the series before it.Well, at the end of the day, I only disagree, I don't really think you're wrong for wanting that, so I don't really have a position to stand on.

[Coatl]

I mean the new weapons are really strong. People are saying with their raw stats alone they are 3% stronger than stil. And that's in their DORMANT state. Plus...with the DQ update it's quite possible the stil will get another buff or another weapon stage entirely. This new weapon is just the new liberate.

My only complaint with the EQ is the miscellaneous drops that aren't a rainbow drop are so terrible. If you get lucky enough to get a puras or one of the new weapons or units then it feels great, but if not you can't even look forward to cubes or deynth/grind fodder or anything.

[Kondibon]

You do get cubes, they drop raw, it's just not noticeable if you have autopickup and material storage. I got like 40 from a run, and a few class cubes too I think, but that's still not really a huge selling point.

[Zephyrion]

do you not play other RPGs or games in general where beating the last boss gives you the most OP weapon in the game? (excluding niche stuff that can make op weapons), its like asking why give this OP weapon to the player for beating the game? dont reward them for finishing. Especially if NG+ is a thing, let the player feel OP, thats the point

in this case with PSO2, its the final raid, massive power creep should be a given regardless if current content calls for it or not. theres still going to be new content to do, especially that new XQ which while doing with Stil, I'm sure most people would want to use Cras instead or Meta gear along with w/e other content people are working on (Endless, etc). people expect big power creeps from Raids like this, why put something thats only for example, 1-5% stronger than Stil out as a final goodbye raid? underwhelming for a series especially with how hard its time gated and currently only one being obtainable whereas Stil is basically obtainable any time (barring people who lack certain weapons for not playing the game or w/e reason they have)

I mean we could look at WoW gear, every expansion just destroys w/e current Meta gear thats out, its what gets the players working toward BiS stuff over and over but Sega decided against that and insisted on the Plus pots instead which personally, dont care but eventually let that gear die, stop buffing it consistently over time because its less incentive for people to bother with the newer gear when they can just not play because they know Sega will buff the old gear anyways

Cras IS a massive power increase though. Sure it's not the "this weapon completely obliterates every other one" but it's still the highest creep for a BiS. Just it's not as noticeable due to the increase being in small increments in several instances rather than a "this number is that much bigger". Let's detail it

Cras with its base stat and base pot is actually on average about 0.5% weaker than Still at full power. Let's remember that Still pot is conditional here, Anyone that claims they never get hit and stay at full all the time probably don't play that much recent content, because as good as you are you still get hit at times, and even though Still regenerates quickly, the loss over time is actually very noticeable. So on a flat line Cras power should already be higher than Still. Then you have to factor the existence of S4, which is actually huge (most striking is Braver getting a literally free Skilled Balance, and Hero getting Calming, everyone else can get either Raising or some really good utility there).
You then add the friggin 6% for 30 seconds which is on a 30 seconds recast btw. meaning it adds on average 3% to a weapon that's already a few % above Still played on a class that easily avoids damage (reminder that every class aside Hero usually requires some form of facetanking in a lot of situations for DPS upkeep so the average may vary)

All in all it's an increase of 5-6% on average (not even accounting for Stil variance) (special mention for Braver utterly dunking that and getting a free +10%). Even Austere and Gix jumps weren't nearly as drastic and those were the biggest creeps the game saw.

As for the outdated gear thing, I think this formula suits PSO2 better, due to the combination of having several weapons per class and the game making it very easy, even encouraging playing at least a few different classes. With the limited supply of stones and considering a lot of them were tied to limited campaigns (exception is Stil but it takes 2 month per Stil so lol). This formula lets new player at least get one class with all 3 weapons being slotted with something ok (getting at least Atra EX and Lib while waiting for Stil) and not have one weapon that's godly and the rest trash, and lets older players get Liberate as the lowest power on their weapons in the case they play several classes.

[the_importer_]

Wait, some people actually have a Cane weapon, how? Even you multi-ship, this boss raid is so long that you don't have time to play it more than 2 times and we haven't gotten 25 raids yet.

[echofaith]

I assume people did normal like 4--5 times in different ships, then UH in their last run for the stones. You get like 100 from titles, so you dont need that many from clears.

[the_importer_]

I assume people did normal like 4--5 times in different ships, then UH in their last run for the stones. You get like 100 from titles, so you dont need that many from clears.

Oh that makes sense.

[the_importer_]

Well, only need to play that quest 36 more times now -_-

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[Loveless62]

The comparison to WoW feels kinda moot though, WoW (and most mmos of that style) typically don't have unique effects on equipment. They're pure stat sticks, which isn't the case in PSO2.
What you said about WoW is false. A lot pieces of equipment in WoW are simply stat sticks, but not all of it. Iin many cases, the set bonuses on tier gear would have a strong unique effect. Some of them were strong enough to affect optimal attack/spell rotations. Most legendaries, some epics, and many trinkets had effects strong enough to affect how you played as well.

I realize that I risk hijacking the discussion, but I don't think I can let what you said about WoW pass.

[Kondibon]

What you said about WoW is false. A lot pieces of equipment in WoW are simply stat sticks, but not all of it. Iin many cases, the set bonuses on tier gear would have a strong unique effect. Some of them were strong enough to affect optimal attack/spell rotations. Most legendaries, some epics, and many trinkets had effects strong enough to affect how you played as well.

I realize that I risk hijacking the discussion, but I don't think I can let what you said about WoW pass.Are they actually functionally different or just give you enough stats to do things that wouldn't normally be advised? I was mainly talking about in comparison to stuff like spread needle and the s5, where it adds an entirely new mechanic that doesn't otherwise exist.
That's not to say I don't believe you, I just wanted to be sure we're talking about the same things.

EDIT: That said, my main point was that trying to have vertical progression and horizontal progression at the same time doesn't work as well if the vertical progression is too high but also tied to the horizontal progression. It works a lot better if the mechanics are separate, which is why I like SSAs so much.

I admit most of my perspective on gear treadmill mmos comes from XIV which is probably a LOT stricter about gear progression than WoW is.

[Vatallus]

Not really important but it is possible to get all 3 buffs in the same run. Takes some dedication to break just the fingers though. Really easy to do it with PAs that can hit multiple enemies.

[Tyreek]

I can confirm this as well since last night. Started off with Matoi's Prayer, then halfway through we got Harriet's Divinity, then Hitsugi's Ambition came quickly afterwards. Made for a good finale. Its also the first time I ever heard Hitsugi have a line for the final stretch.

[ArcaneTechs]

Almost a month since this has come out, done roughly a little over 100 runs (I stopped waking up for runs after I got my stone), this EQ is still fun to me but what I don't find fun is still no unit drops. It's unreal how much worse it was compared to when I ran Persona over 330+ times just to get a full set which seems like it may be the same case here for me again. idk how grindy that exchange shop is going to be but i'm forced to wait on it just to use my new affixed gear thats sitting in storage atm.

my only beef is with pugs (as usual) picking Matoi's useless stat buff over Hitsugi's impalement hold or even Harietts sniper shot. We could be getting the run done quicker if people would just pick Hitsugi instead of waifu choice everytime but thats just pugs like 70% of the time (some people have picked up on the better choice).

anyways, still 0 units, 0 puras and 0 ayer drops, hell even 0 rainbow drops 20% of the time

[echofaith]

I didnt even know you could pick a buff, thought it was random lol. But yeah, the drops rates are depressing. I managed to get a leg unit and know people who got the others(and seen randoms with all 3) but majority of the team has gotten none. The sad part is that they are going to welfare the units I think in 2 weeks from the Shiva/Varuna Armada V2.0 thingie and I am assuming they will be as fast as regular DQ as far as module farming is(which isnt too bad imo, and you CAN buy them if you have meseta)

If they do that though, there is almost no reason to do primordial after you get your stone. The drop rates in general are REALLY bad. Almost no cubes, sometimes not a single 13* at all, 14* seem as rare as 15* from older EQs, and 15* well...I think I only know 2 people getting one so far, with one being a Puras. I am not a fan of the EQ as far as gameplay goes, I consider it the the 2nd most boring only behind Deus, but if they remove the only carrot on a stick it had(being the only source for Cras Units) then I will be skipping this EQ for good unless they add something new.

[Ransu]

The heroine that is talked to the most at the second teleporter influences the first buff that goes off. Personally I prefer Harrieto's godly bitchslap. Anyway, I already stopped doing this EQ after making my Cras and only came out with one unit from 50 runs. I generally just dislike all the phases in some way. The first phase is back and forth and the boss feels extremely unresponsive and it's just a sandbag fest. Phase 2 is probably the "best" one just because it's more active but it's still just more sandbagging. Phase 3 I could have enjoyed more if it weren't for people trying to spam burns rather than actually damaging the boss but even then it only cycles through like 4 attacks. Even worse that the EP6 Credits version of The Whole New World isn't even used there so it's even more meh for me.

Honestly, with such an unresponsive boss it doesn't feel as grandiose as I could have hoped for the final boss of the game. Others may love it but I generally find it boring. Original PD honestly felt more epic and had a better transition with music and presentation throughout all the phases.

[TehCubey]

my only beef is with pugs (as usual) picking Matoi's useless stat buff over Hitsugi's impalement hold or even Harietts sniper shot. We could be getting the run done quicker if people would just pick Hitsugi instead of waifu choice everytime but thats just pugs like 70% of the time (some people have picked up on the better choice).


I'm glad MPAs on ship 10 have wisened up and usually pick Hitsugi, at least on expert. I see others but only sporadically.

[Meteor Weapon]

Matoi is useful for people with low health to not get one shotted by his slam due mistaken dodge timing.(not useful when people got in his semen puke line of fire and punching bag phase flashbomb tho)

Hitsugi momenterily stops PD from doing anything giving chance for people to dish out massive damage.

Harriett's kamehameha is still pretty good, but I rarely see people going for that.

They are all useful in a way, depending on players I guess.

[Kondibon]

I think getting Hitsugi or Harriet first and maybe second would lead to faster kills, but getting Matoi>Harriet>Hitsugi would make it easier to see all three in a single fight, since Harriet and Hitsugi lead to a lot of damage being dealt directly to PD when its rings aren't available. I saw that once though, I'm in no hurry to slow down runs for it again.

[Suirano]

I was unaware you could choose the buff. I just go into autopilot when doing the EQ cause I want my 50 kills to be done with it and others usually choose it. I have always noticed Matoi/Harriet the most lately when before it was Matoi/Hitsugi. How do you even determine which buffs go off?

The droprate is abysmal in this EQ. You'd think for a final boss, it would feel more rewarding but it really doesn't. Don't even know why Gix drops and it would be nice if the Ray weapons had higher affix slots than 3. Also, still really dislike how Sodom is basically anti-JB since it has no element weakness.

[Dimate]

I get about 3 class cubes and 30 cubes every run, I thought that's the reason the crystal barely has anything else
But yeah it's sad how I could be swimming in 13* and 14* by bumrushing Step 30 but the final boss of the game drops nothing but Noxes, Gixes and low slot units
There has to be another difficulty coming where the drops will finally not be garbage. Right now you don't even get 10 boss stones per run

Matoi buff gives me some breathing room when the run's lagging to hell lol

[ArcaneTechs]

Matoi is useful for people with low health to not get one shotted by his slam due mistaken dodge timing

you shouldnt be at low health in general if you just affixed even basic stuff and general everything else (by low health, i mean thats your max health), I get mistakes but even then, someone can pick you up. Matoi buff just extends the run longer, not by a massive amount but an unneeded amount.


They are all useful in a way, depending on players I guess.
ya non expert runs


Hitsugi > Hariett > Matoi



I think getting Hitsugi or Harriet first and maybe second would lead to faster kills, but getting Matoi>Harriet>Hitsugi would make it easier to see all three in a single fight, since Harriet and Hitsugi lead to a lot of damage being dealt directly to PD when its rings aren't available. I saw that once though, I'm in no hurry to slow down runs for it again.

was this a 30min run? didnt think getting all 3 could be possible

[Kondibon]

was this a 30min run? didnt think getting all 3 could be possibleIt was a little over 20 minutes iirc. It was mostly that the majority of the mpa was trying to do it, combined with PD not doing the attacks that make it hard to hit the rings as often. Also, Matoi was first and Hitsugi was last iirc.

[Loveless62]

How do you even determine which buffs go off?
From what I can tell from SWiki, the order of the buffs (effects) are determined by the order that you talk to each what heroine you talk to before that phase of the fight starts. I am not clear on this, but I think SWiki also says that it counts the order for each player, not just who talks to them first. So, in essence, the players vote on the order?

I might be wrong about how it works, but, frankly, I am pretty annoyed that no one else in this thread has tried to explain it yet.

The heroine that is talked to the most at the second teleporter influences the first buff that goes off.
Oops, I guess it was mentioned. ^^;

Edit again: SWiki explicitly states "Only the character that each player speaks to first is counted." The order that a player speaks to the other characters doesn't matter.