XBOX: Discussion on Frequency of Rare Drops

[Alcuin]

Everyone has an opinion on everything.
Opinions are rarely useful.

Background:
3 Characters: Blueful Human Ranger Female lvl 120, Redria Newman Hunter Female lvl 124, Virdia Android Ranger Female lvl 60.

Problem: Increasing frustration with being surrounded by low level Heaven's Punisher and Demolition Comet toting jerks.

Questions:
OK, so the the question at hand is, "What things does the gamer have control over to increase his frequency of obtaining rare drops?"

No one needs to answer the obvious. We all know the telepipe trick and tactics for being closest to the drop and playing online with 4 people, etc.

I'm really interested in:

* THE REAL STORY behind Luck Material. So many sites simply say that it only affects critical hits. Why would it not be called hit material? How reliable is this information? WHERE did this information come from? If you respond to this, PLEASE tell me your source. Every day I talk to someone who says something different. When I ask them how they know this, their response is "I think it's that way." or "Such and such website says it's that way"... but where is the website's source??

* How many hours logged in affects rare drops? Do total hours of all members in the game affect the rare drop frequency? Do hours affect the chances that HIGHER QUALITY rares will drop? Does the amount of time logged in during the day also affect rare drops?

* People say that how high of a level you are affects drops. In what way? At what level do you have to be to start getting something beyond the increasingly annoying junk that continues to litter my inventories.

Your rumors, your opinions, your thoughts, your guesses are NOT WANTED! If you have reliable material you can point me to or facts which you can substantiate with some sort of reliable source, I would GREATLY APPRECIATE IT. Thanks a lot and happy gaming.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alcuin on 2003-05-25 03:27 ]</font>

[VulpesMundi]

On 2003-05-25 03:22, Alcuin wrote:
* THE REAL STORY behind Luck Material. So many sites simply say that it only affects critical hits. Why would it not be called hit material? How reliable is this information? WHERE did this information come from? If you respond to this, PLEASE tell me your source. Every day I talk to someone who says something different. When I ask them how they know this, their response is "I think it's that way." or "Such and such website says it's that way"... but where is the website's source??

For one, there used to be an item called Hit Material back in the DC and PC versions. This item raised ATA (ie. hit rate) by 2. Sonic Team took this item out because it was too easy to max out ATA with them. It balanced the gameplay a bit.

Luck materials raise LCK by 2, and with a maximum luck of 100 the critical hit rate rises to roughly 1 in 3 hits (or 33.3~%). LCK does not effect item drop rates. The proof is simply that people find the same items with the same relative frequency having a low LCK as others do with a high LCK. It has been this way since the very first version of PSO.

My personal examples: I found a Lavis Cannon (11-stars) with a Redria RAmar that had 20 LCK. I found a Psycho Wand (12-stars) with a Purplenum FOnewearl that had 10 LCK. I have NOT found a Meteor Cudgel (10-stars) with a Whitill HUmar that has 60 LCK, and I've taken him through the Ultimate Ruins solo (and defeated Falz) at least 10 times.



On 2003-05-25 03:22, Alcuin wrote:
* How many hours logged in affects rare drops? Do total hours of all members in the game affect the rare drop frequency? Do hours affect the chances that HIGHER QUALITY rares will drop? Does the amount of time logged in during the day also affect rare drops?
* People say that how high of a level you are affects drops. In what way? At what level do you have to be to start getting something beyond the increasingly annoying junk that continues to litter my inventories.

A lot of people will try to tell you that certain beat times offer better chances for certain IDs to find items. This simply isn't true. There is no hot time. The only thing a person can do is just continuously run through the same area until they randomly find what they're looking for.

Total playing time and levels also have no effect on item drops. Again, it's all sheer randomness. A level 50 character in offline Ultimate with only 25 hours could just as easily find a rare item as a level 100 character with 250 hours or a level 200 character with 2500 hours. The only difference is how quickly and easily each of those different characters can kill the enemies they face. A level 200 character is obviously going to be a lot stronger and be able to kill enemies the fastest, so common sense tells us that that character is probably going to find the most stuff simply based on sheer volume of enemies defeated.

My personal example: I found an Aura Field (11-star, overall strongest armor in the game) with an Oran HUnewearl who was level 40 with approximately 20 hours total playing time.



On 2003-05-25 03:22, Alcuin wrote:
Your rumors, your opinions, your thoughts, your guesses are NOT WANTED! If you have reliable material you can point me to or facts which you can substantiate with some sort of reliable source, I would GREATLY APPRECIATE IT. Thanks a lot and happy gaming.

My proof is that I've been playing this game for 3 versions over 2 1/4+ years. It has given me plenty of time to run the gamut of rumors and theories. I'm merely stating what I've learned in that time. Whether you believe my knowledge of this game or not is your call.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VulpesMundi on 2003-05-25 04:16 ]</font>

[Alcuin]

My fault. I KNEW I would forget something:

How long you have played this game by anyone interested in posting to this thread means nothing to me. I think most of us have played this game since the Dreamcast version. I certainly have.

And again, case studies of "This is what I've seen." or "I'm guessing it's this." is completely bunk. I want to know certainty. I don't care whether it's from program code that someone has discovered or certain inside information from Sega, etc... but something along those lines is what I'm looking for.

This may sound harsh, but it has no intention of being that. I'm just tired of all the silly rumors and so-called experts telling everyone what they think. Examples are people online saying, "Hm I think they probably won't release any content till after we start paying." Suddenly, everyone and their mother is an expert, "Yes I found out they won't release any content until we pay." Finally, people start saying "I've been playing this game since infancy and I have a sixth sense about Sega. For a fact I have discovered that we will not get any content until we begin to pay."

[airmig]

There is a probability number stored in the "item file". The range is between 0 and 255.

If the probability is modified to 0, the enemies will drop nothing.

If the probability is modified to 255, the enemies will drop a red box "most of the time". I say most of the time because if the item that a particular enemy drops is not that rare(it does not have too many yellow stars), a red item will be dropped like 98% of the time.

If the item is rare like the max number of stars and the file is modified to 255. The enemy will drop random items and after a few kills it will drop the rare.

Example:

if the probability of delbiter ult bluefull dropping a psycho wand is changed to 255. It will take around 5 kills to get one.

if the probability of doldom ult bluefull dropping fatsia is changed to 255. A rare item will drop like every time you kill one of those things.

So, there is hardcoded number in the file that is used with something else. There is probably an internal equation that noone will never known.

For me, at least the following factors are considered when calculating if a rare item is dropped:

1) The rarity of the item
2) The probability for each item in the item file
3) How often an alternate item should appear instead of a rare weapon. This is also specified in another file

This is as much as I know and I have tested.

[Reenee]

I think Sonic Team made it logical to remove Hit Materials. Accuracy is something one has to hone on their own. The */Arm units probably give focus to the player.

[OrBiTaLMaTRiX]

Think about it logically, when you joing a game it preloads the map, so there is no way a particular character in the game will find more rares than any other character could based on luck.

[Alcuin]

Yes airmig, the information in your post was the kind of information I was looking for.



On 2003-05-25 21:30, airmig wrote:
So, there is hardcoded number in the file that is used with something else. There is probably an internal equation that noone will never known.


This is what I have heard as a rumor too. The RUMOR is that there is this long ass equation that takes into account all these different factors. No one knows the equation or can find it? All the other stuff is just rumors about whether different things are actually in that equation?

[silvermax]

so the "equation" must act like a slot machine...

[Alcuin]

On 2003-05-26 00:38, silvermax wrote:
so the "equation" must act like a slot machine...






I prefer to think of them as pinatas... hit a creature and watch the candy fall out.

[NekoHikari]

When I read your post after what Vulpes Mundi replied with, I had to laugh. You're such an idiot. He proved everything he said in his post and you're interested in some kind of program equation? Get a clue. You say you've been playing this since the Dreamcast version? Really? If that's so then you would most likely remember hit materials now wouldn't you? It would be difficult to NOT remember them, as there were so many that people were giving them away like candy. (This was because ATA was ridiculously easy to max out) But as I type this now I can't help but think to myself, "Why am I wasting my time posting this to some ignorant liar?" Sigh...

[Malkavian]

What Vulpes Mundi said is true.

The only way to increase the odds to find stuff is kill more enemies hehe