GC: Which Force makes the best Tanking Force?

[FluxGryphon]

A fairly straight forward question...

Of the four available Forces, which one of them makes the best tanking Force?

Here are some stat comparisons:

Highest to Lowest HP
1. FOmarl (1273 HP)
2. FOnewm (1232 HP)
3. FOmar (1175 HP)
4. FOnewearl (1148 HP)

Highest to Lowest ATP
1. FOmar (1002 ATP)
2. FOmarl (872 ATP)
3. FOnewm (814 ATP)
4. FOnewearl (583 ATP)

Highest to Lowest ATA
1. FOnewm (180 ATA)
2. FOnewearl (186 ATA)
3. FOmarl (170 ATA)
4. FOmar (163 ATA)

Highest to Lowest DFP
1. FOmar (470 DFP)
2. FOmarl (468 DFP)
3. FOnewm (463 DFP)
4. FOnewearl (390 DFP)

Highest to Lowest EVP
1. FOnewearl (883 EVP)
2. FOnewm (679 EVP)
3. FOmar (651 EVP)
4. FOmarl (588 EVP)

If you vote, please post your reasoning/argument why you voted as you did. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[lain2k3]

FOmarl.

Fonewearl is the only one that'll ever block anything.

more damage is the only bonus for the Fomars higher atp, no extra weapons just for him.

Good HP, best of forces, wont need resta as often.

good DFP as far as forces go.

best all around, nothing incredibly great, just like humar, but with spells that matter.

But then again, she may suffer from her lack of focus.But you have to love her barehanded combo. lol

[Antre]

I'd say FOmarl because she has the highest HP and second highest defense (only beaten by two).

I think the combination of these would let her last longer than a FOnewearl with the lowest HP and DFP.

The FOmar is kind of even to the FOmarl in terms of tanking ability. DFP is pretty even, only 98 less HP and about 75 more EVP. I don't really know how the evade works at higher level though, so I can't say.

You could make a good argument for the FOnewm, being that he has the second highest HP, only 41 less than the FOmarl comparatively, but 91 more EVP. Again I don't really know how that much EVP effects the higher levels. I guess FOnewm would make a good choice for a tanking force as well.

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mushboom.gif

edit: I was only talking about the ability to take punishment part of tanking.. I didn't really think about the damage dealing part. :shrug:


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Antre on 2003-07-14 21:26 ]</font>

[lain2k3]

In ultimate, under 700 EVP will do nothing. over 700 will save you about 2/3 of the hits you would take in the forest. very thin line, but it makes all the difference in the game.

[Sham]

I don't think it really matters because in the end, all of the forces have shit for DFP/HP. But that's not to say they all get thrashed constantly. Deband/Jellen at high levels works pretty well for negating that possibility.

But if I had to pick one, I'd say FOnewearl. She is the only one with a very large amount of EVP, and since the DFP/HP differences don't really matter because of the supportive techniques, the only thing that could make someone stand out is evasive ability.

[lain2k3]

but she cant do fuck worth of damage...



?

[Nani-chan]

Fomarl, is the tank.

1. If your are using max def then your comparisons are messed up according to every guide I've seen Fomarls max def is not 468 ---> 498
b.Highest hp and def.

2.They also can get all the stats maxed without god/abilities.
b. Well just ignore evp mats.. then defiantly.
c.Fomarl stat difference 749 (best of humans)
Fomar 873
Fonewmn 858
Fonewearl 907
Humans can get 500 points of mat stats with 250 mats
Newmans/droids 300 points of mat stats with 150 mats
d. For example the Newmans may have a higher ata max but it's a 52/53 ata difference so if they get to max ata they won't be good with mst for example. 25/26 for mar/marl is easier to reach.

I'm not saying FOmarl is a better melee force than a FOmar.. just a better tank. And just like all forces they have a very easy time offline and sometimes only after a certain level.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2003-07-14 22:32 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

The FOmar. I generally prefer the male character's animations with weapons, for some reason, and the majority of the FOmarl's are just... No. Not even in an ugly sense, I have no trouble taking a FOmar untwinked through Normal Forest meleeing. Tried it with a FOmarl, god -that- was awful... Her saber combo is just plain drek, hands down, and seems to be a bit slow, at least to me. Nothing a God/Battle won't fix, but eh.
The FOmar has signifigantly higher ATP, which will allow him to deal quite a bit more damage per attack.
7 ATA isn't much of a difference, and let's face it, both the mar and the marl stink ATA-wise. No bones about it.
DFP is a bit of a bitchy thing, but if you're good, most of the time you won't get hit.
100 less HP is a bit of a liability, but if you're good at what you're doing you won't get hit much anyways.
EVP means nothing on Ult unless you've got utterly tons of it.
Even though it's not mentioned in the poll, sometimes you -will- want to use techs while tanking, and the FOmar also has higher MST than the FOmarl, which means a bit more damage. Furthermore, his tech bonuses are more useful for dealing damage with. Max your MST. Gibarta may not be great, but Gizonde is quite useful, and Gifoie if used right is safe and deadly...

But anyways. As always, all of this is in my opinion, and your mileage may vary. But I personally feel that the FOmar is a better choice.
So overall, I feel the FOmar is better in the long run. *shrug* Obviously, it's up to the player, but the FOmar is my choice.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ian-KunX on 2003-07-14 22:28 ]</font>

[Soukosa]

You made a mistake with the FOmarl's DFP, it's 498, not 468. For the poll, I personally like FOmarls, but I haven't really tried all of the FO's yet, just FOmarl and FOnewearl.

[Delsaber]

I think FOmar. Why? Isn't tanking all about power? FOmar has the highest ATP and higher MST than a FOmarl. He has nice defense, the highest of the forces. He beats out the FOmarl in EVP as well.

Comparison of FOmar and FOmarl
HP: FOmarl +1
TP: FOmar
ATP: FOmar
DFP: FOmarl
MST: FOmar
ATA: FOmarl
EVP: FOmar

That's 4 points for FOmar and 3 for FOmarl. FOmarl wins only in ATA and HP. FOmar could equip two god/hps and two god/arms or switch one of those out for a god/body and he is ahead in everything.

As far as the best in tanking with techs only, the winner by far is a FOnewm. But for a nice mix of both, I go with the FOmar.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Delsaber on 2003-07-15 00:10 ]</font>

[silvermax]

On 2003-07-14 21:15, lain2k3 wrote:
But you have to love her barehanded combo. lol

just today i was using that unarmed combo:

open hand slap, back hand slap, double arm thrust,

sooo good http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

AND

Fomarls seem to make nice tanks, i puttered along thourgh hard Runis with not to much trouble, died a few times cuase i got carless, but i could take the hits and keep on blasting away, and i love grants *is see you... ZAP!!!* hehehe Grants sniping is so fun combine it with inferno Bazooka, sweet jebus http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: silvermax on 2003-07-15 00:44 ]</font>

[saffaya]

I think FOmar. Why? Isn't tanking all about power?

er .. no. While it is always sweet to have more power, if you're engaging hand-to-hand and dealing blows, you have to be able to sustain getting slapped in the face too.
That's where the FOmarl has an edge.
Being dead greatly lowers your tanking monsters time average.

[Nai_Calus]

If you do things right, 99% of the time DFP and EVP and HP are meaningless. >P

[HavoctheForce]

FOmars are great they are fast and strong and still have good MST.

[soralan]

now that my fonewns at a decent lvl (161) ive started to mess with his setup, and i quite like playing him as a tank at times, with his ata and atp/def maxed and armed with a c bringers in ruins he can have fun, but i only do this when i play with people who i know dont need to much back up from a force, ie costant resta (not that hes any good at resta lol) but i still do j/z of course.

[s.TiNgEr]

FoMarls are great. Well rounded stats as well as the Mst stat

[Solidus_Snake]

My fomar fires grants like a machine gun. Not just any grants but level 30 grants hehehe. Those trifluids are me ammo belts and i deplete them quickly. When in doubt move in with the twin +250 hehehe considering its probablty the strongest melee weapon a FOmar will ever hope to use. But for raw tech power which is the top con of the FOnewm your gonna annihilate the enemy with the right equipment.

[Sham]

On 2003-07-15 03:48, saffaya wrote:


I think FOmar. Why? Isn't tanking all about power?

er .. no. While it is always sweet to have more power, if you're engaging hand-to-hand and dealing blows, you have to be able to sustain getting slapped in the face too.
That's where the FOmarl has an edge.
Being dead greatly lowers your tanking monsters time average.



Of course, since that little extra 30 or so DFP, and 100 or so HP just plain puts her in godly status, with an edge! [/sarcasm]

I really don't understand why people boast the FOmarl's DFP/HP so much. My FOmar at LV160, with a couple God/HP, a God/Body(non-maxed DFP), blocks every area except Ruins/CCA/Seabed. And in the other three areas, he takes love taps. So what does this mean, wow, and equal FOmarl takes like 5 less damage?

[magenta]

yay..

i am the original tanking goddess.
glad to know the fomarl is still the best tanker in pso..
it makes me all feel warm and fuzzy inside.

back in psoi and psov2 days, fomarls were best chars overalls (iMHO) due to their immense flexibility with techs and melee combat.

and wheres the fun in zapping a dark bringer from afar, when one can try and stop them in mid charge using s-rank twin brand combo (sometimes killing them outright) ... or killing multiple delsabers using barta and s-rank scythe..woooo..those where the days.

gotta get a gamecube grrr...

[Bart]

Tanks should be able to take alot of damage or one helluva beating anyways without doing alot of primary damage.

So I would go with FOmarl. Althought I like FOnewearl.

[saffaya]

Of course, since that little extra 30 or so DFP, and 100 or so HP just plain puts her in godly status, with an edge! [/sarcasm]

I really don't understand why people boast the FOmarl's DFP/HP so much. My FOmar at LV160 (...)

LV 160 ? That tells it all !
If you had to wait untill lvl 160 to Tank, I really pity you ..
Which character cannot tank at lvl 160 ?

I was able to follow and support hunters in ultimate Seabed at lvl 80-85.
Of course I was tanking in lower EP II levels at that time.
The DEF and HP edge of the FOmarl you are mocking are especially useful at lower levels.
And I'm glad it is that way because there is no chance I'll ever raise a single char up to lvl 160. I have too many chars for that.

[Sham]

On 2003-07-16 00:44, saffaya wrote:


Of course, since that little extra 30 or so DFP, and 100 or so HP just plain puts her in godly status, with an edge! [/sarcasm]

I really don't understand why people boast the FOmarl's DFP/HP so much. My FOmar at LV160 (...)

LV 160 ? That tells it all !
If you had to wait untill lvl 160 to Tank, I really pity you ..
Which character cannot tank at lvl 160 ?

I was able to follow and support hunters in ultimate Seabed at lvl 80-85.
Of course I was tanking in lower EP II levels at that time.
The DEF and HP edge of the FOmarl you are mocking are especially useful at lower levels.
And I'm glad it is that way because there is no chance I'll ever raise a single char up to lvl 160. I have too many chars for that.

Nice try with the little LV160 thing you had going, but just no. I never said he suddenly hit LV160 and OH YAY I CAN DO RUINS NOW. I, too did Ruins/CCA/Seabed before ever hitting LV100, so what exactly is your point? The main discussion of this thread is maxed status, since that is what most people focus on. (Who the hell really thinks "wow cool my fomarl will have 8 more def than fomar at lv20!!!" other than people like you?) And at the end of the day, her cute little DFP/HP advantage means little to nothing.

It's also funny you used the word "tanking" in seabed at lv80, since that has to be an exxageration. Literally being a shield for HU/RA and taking love taps from all of the enemies in seabed at lv80, (since that's pretty much what 'tanking' means)? Give me a break. Unless got some really special stuff going on in the form of God/Bodies/HPs and eating 250 defense materials, since there isn't any super armor for LV80 forces.

I won't even get onto the subject of how when you look past her DFP/HP compared to the other forces, and her boosts to all supports, she's a pretty useless character. Oops.

[fyrewyre]

the fomarl take a bit more hits but thats about it. a fomarl dishing out damage on ult seabed would be almost impossible. my fomar has angry fists +32(?) and total atp of 2134(1002) so a fomarl which has about...i would guess (874)base atp would but then about 1900 or even less. as far as i know tank (thigns the army uses) take and give hits, i cant think of a fomarl who does damage really.

[Dime]

On 2003-07-15 03:58, Ian-KunX wrote:
If you do things right, 99% of the time DFP and EVP and HP are meaningless. >P



Send me a tape of you beating the game with 1 HP.

I agree with EVP and DFP but you need HP, sometimes it's impossible not to get hit.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2003-07-17 22:48, Dime wrote:


On 2003-07-15 03:58, Ian-KunX wrote:
If you do things right, 99% of the time DFP and EVP and HP are meaningless. >P



Send me a tape of you beating the game with 1 HP.

I agree with EVP and DFP but you need HP, sometimes it's impossible not to get hit.



Did I say anything at all about running around with 1 HP? No. I'm reffering more to your full HP, because the definition of stupidity is not healing yourself. >P And even if you can't heal for some reason, you can still do just fine... Fun is taking on Forest 2 with an untwinked L3 FOmar who's run out of fluids and mates and has taken a hit or two and you're poking a Hildebear to death with your Cane, carefully running around it, praying you hit L4 sometime before that inevitable hit eventually comes along and you die. ^_-
Anyways, what I'm really saying there is that comparing max HP is pointless. If you're too low a level to do something comfortably, an extra 100 HP or so is not going to save your ass, or even two or three hundred. If you don't get hit, it doesn't matter. If you do get hit, well, sure, you might somehow die in one hit from it if you're too low a level/don't meet the HP requirement to survive it(Falz's swipe, anyone?), but that's what God/HPs are for, and under normal circumstances you usually don't die in one hit. And hey, Forces have this thing called 'Resta' they can use to heal themselves if they screw up and get bitchslapped. *shrug*

[happyalloy]

I have to take offense at FOmarls not dealing damage. Sure it's not a lot of damage, but they can deal some with the right equipment.

And the reason that FOmarls are set up the way they are is because they make awesome support characters. They can sit in the middle of the fighting and s/d everyone, without dying from a single hit. They can sit in the middle of the room and resta all the damage givers, both HUs on the front line and attack magic FOs in the back. They are awesome support characters for those who want a change of pace from playing as a primary attack character.

So what if they do way less damage than a HU with weps - that's why you bring a Hunter along! And if you're unhappy about tech damage - bring a FOnew along! And then cast support techs in the thick of battle to keep them alive and hurting the enemies without a second thought for their HP or s/d http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Thats not to say that all other FOs suck. Each FO-type has their own strengths and weaknesses. I just made my first male FOs (one of each), and they seem to be lots of fun so far. Man that FOmar is fast when bare-handed! Does that work with fist weps too?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: happyalloy on 2003-07-18 07:36 ]</font>

[Kanore]

FOmarls... their DFP is great, the ATA is PERFECT, and the MST/ATP combination (melee) is amazing.

I have never looked at it this way, but now... FOmarls seem great to tank..

[Monomate]

On 2003-07-14 21:10, FluxGryphon wrote:



Highest to Lowest ATA
1. FOnewm (180 ATA)
2. FOnewearl (186 ATA)
3. FOmarl (170 ATA)
4. FOmar (163 ATA)

If you vote, please post your reasoning/argument why you voted as you did. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


ummm...heres a quick reference ranking highest to lowest. higher numbers go on top, lower numbers go on bottom. 186 is higher thatn 180 for those of you who don't know. so would it not follow, by all logic, that the FOnewearl goes before the FOnewm?

[Artemidorus]

Well, I choose FOnewm. As a "tank" you can plow through enemies like something sharp and smooth through something soft and buttery. Well, you forgot to mention the MST standings. To tell you the truth, no one in the right mind setting would use a force to attack in Ult. yeah, maybe as a fun past time or something, but not as your actually strategy (sp).
Anyways, I say FOnewm because he has the 1.5 multiplier in the RA and GI class spells. then if you equip something that ups those classes (ex: Sorcerer's Cane up's 20% to GI class spells) then you are one big ass kicking tank of a force!

[ChokingVictim]

fomar....imo defense stats become a moot point as a force if you keep up with jellen and deband.. the only thing holding a fomar back is the lowest ata of the bunch....which also means having to find better hit % weapons to compensate.... i can do decent damage with my soul banish, but all those misses become a serious pain with a base ata at 130 or so right now...

[Dime]

On 2003-07-18 00:40, Ian-KunX wrote:


On 2003-07-17 22:48, Dime wrote:


On 2003-07-15 03:58, Ian-KunX wrote:
If you do things right, 99% of the time DFP and EVP and HP are meaningless. >P



Send me a tape of you beating the game with 1 HP.

I agree with EVP and DFP but you need HP, sometimes it's impossible not to get hit.



Did I say anything at all about running around with 1 HP? No. I'm reffering more to your full HP, because the definition of stupidity is not healing yourself. >P And even if you can't heal for some reason, you can still do just fine... Fun is taking on Forest 2 with an untwinked L3 FOmar who's run out of fluids and mates and has taken a hit or two and you're poking a Hildebear to death with your Cane, carefully running around it, praying you hit L4 sometime before that inevitable hit eventually comes along and you die. ^_-
Anyways, what I'm really saying there is that comparing max HP is pointless. If you're too low a level to do something comfortably, an extra 100 HP or so is not going to save your ass, or even two or three hundred. If you don't get hit, it doesn't matter. If you do get hit, well, sure, you might somehow die in one hit from it if you're too low a level/don't meet the HP requirement to survive it(Falz's swipe, anyone?), but that's what God/HPs are for, and under normal circumstances you usually don't die in one hit. And hey, Forces have this thing called 'Resta' they can use to heal themselves if they screw up and get bitchslapped. *shrug*



For a force HP is very useful, since even a Rappy can pretty much bitch slap you. Not to mention the bosses, who can smack you back to Jesus' birthday. It's mostly useful if you're legit, since a legit will rarely find any good HP units since later in the game.

It would be kinda fun beating the game with 1 HP though...