Why do people even think this?

[Brett]

That cheaters have no skill. I remained semi legit for around the first 535 hours of me playing pso. I had chars at level 122, 52, 42, and 39. So frankly why do people even fool themselves into thinking that cheaters have no skill? (and btw, I was semi-legit as in I accepted items from my friends and played with and traded with anyone but didn't dupe or cheat.) PSO really doesn't take much skill except in battle mode and challenge mode, and it only takes strategy in battle mode and u have to know what to do in challenge. So I'd just like to know why people fool themselves into thinking these things??

[gallaugher]

people think this based on experience with their own eyes. Obviously this can't apply to all dupe users but I've seen my fair share of them that don't know simple concepts about how to play the game. Yet, they had the most awesome weapons, mags and armor. I've seen my fair share of whining legits too & lets just say that doesn't thrill me either.

[Aurra]

Well, in almost all games, cheating improves your chances for winning. A lot. In PSO it's used mostly for duping items, hacking them, etc. Sure a Double Cannon is stronger than a Partisan of Lightning, but to say that it gives you an unfair advantage is stretching it a little, imo. People don't think a lot of the time, and use the old definition of cheating for PSO (and the oldschool definition of cheating certainly doesn't apply directly to PSO, since it's a cooperative game rather than a first person shooter or even a racer)

[Zarana]

I agree, to an extent. However, you've got to admit that the majority of dupers are unskilled. So are the majority of legitimate players. For every idiot with a power Mag and J-Sword they were handed at L:1 there's a legitimate Force who doesn't Shifta and Deband, or a legitimate Hunter who's used Mechguns for so long that they can't handle fighting up close.

Of course there are dupe users with skill, but the stereotype came from a fundamental truth somewhere down the line. However, people seem to overlook the skill-less legits, which have a number more vast than most can imagine.

But if you mean actual cheaters, as in the ones who create weapons with 300% from nothing and run around PKing and FSODing everyone, then you're completely wrong. They have no skill whatsoever, not to mention no dignity, no intelligence and are bordering on no basic human rights. A pathetic bunch of idiots.

[Brett]

On 2003-07-22 14:23, Zarana wrote:
I agree, to an extent. However, you've got to admit that the majority of dupers are unskilled. So are the majority of legitimate players. For every idiot with a power Mag and J-Sword they were handed at L:1 there's a legitimate Force who doesn't Shifta and Deband, or a legitimate Hunter who's used Mechguns for so long that they can't handle fighting up close.

Of course there are dupe users with skill, but the stereotype came from a fundamental truth somewhere down the line. However, people seem to overlook the skill-less legits, which have a number more vast than most can imagine.

But if you mean actual cheaters, as in the ones who create weapons with 300% from nothing and run around PKing and FSODing everyone, then you're completely wrong. They have no skill whatsoever, not to mention no dignity, no intelligence and are bordering on no basic human rights. A pathetic bunch of idiots.


real good points! pk'ers/nol'ers or anything of that sort don't deserve respect for the reason these things really DO affect you and they do it purposely, unlike dupers. but again with my point that pso doesn't take much skill cept in challenge or battle mode.

[Zarana]

Actually, once you realize that dying is unacceptable, PSO requires a good degree of skill. There's a clear difference between someone who never dies and someone who gets killed by a Delbiter and says "lol," and saying otherwise is just ignorance.

I actually think PSO requires a lot more skill than people know. As my RAmarl, I use the precise weapons to kill each enemy in the area as fast as I possibly can. I cast Shifta, Deband and Resta on my team whenever needed, as well as Anti whenever they are afflicted with a status. I cast Zalure and Jellen in every area past the Forest, Caves and the Temple, yet I still get the final hit on just about every enemy in the room despite my supporting. I know which switches have traps on them, I know what enemies are going to appear and where. I don't damage negate. I do all of this without ever dying.

Now, how many people can support their team at the same time they're contributing the most offense of any member? How many people equip the right weapon for the next wave of enemies before they even appear? How many people don't die? How many people don't abuse damage negate---How many people even know what damage negate IS?

To just get through the game takes minimal skill, yes, but you can vastly improve past just getting through the game. Skill isn't so much just knowing how to play PSO, but being efficient. To put it in perspective, I play a better Force as my RAmarl than 80% of Forces on PSO. Is it because they're dupers? No, of course not, it's because they're inefficient. And efficiency equals skill in Phantasy Star Online.

[Brett]

lol, good points there too, but that also means it's a big memory game lol

[Zarana]

Actually, memory is just an aid to being better. More efficient. Therefore, it's definitely a skill.

But I still disagree. Even with the best memory in the world, you can still die. I think it requires dexterity, timing, memory, tons of other things to be good at PSO. And there's a big difference between being decent or passable and being good. I've even met L:200s who have yet to figure that out.

Hunters who can't fight up close and dodge just about every hit are unskilled.

Forces who don't give full support to their team and know what technique every enemy is weak to are unskilled.

Rangers who don't know what enemies can be hit by a Strong-Strong-Strong combo and can't turn and hit out-of-sight enemies just by seeing their dot on the radar are unskilled.

And those are pretty broad generalizations, really. I would say that, without a doubt, skill exists in PSO. People these days just settle for being passable, no one cares about being excellent anymore. But in my opinion, passable is unskilled.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarana on 2003-07-22 16:29 ]</font>

[trypticon]

On 2003-07-22 15:50, Zarana wrote:
Actually, once you realize that dying is unacceptable, PSO requires a good degree of skill. There's a clear difference between someone who never dies and someone who gets killed by a Delbiter and says "lol," and saying otherwise is just ignorance.

I actually think PSO requires a lot more skill than people know. As my RAmarl, I use the precise weapons to kill each enemy in the area as fast as I possibly can. I cast Shifta, Deband and Resta on my team whenever needed, as well as Anti whenever they are afflicted with a status. I cast Zalure and Jellen in every area past the Forest, Caves and the Temple, yet I still get the final hit on just about every enemy in the room despite my supporting. I know which switches have traps on them, I know what enemies are going to appear and where. I don't damage negate. I do all of this without ever dying.

Now, how many people can support their team at the same time they're contributing the most offense of any member? How many people equip the right weapon for the next wave of enemies before they even appear? How many people don't die? How many people don't abuse damage negate---How many people even know what damage negate IS?

To just get through the game takes minimal skill, yes, but you can vastly improve past just getting through the game. Skill isn't so much just knowing how to play PSO, but being efficient. To put it in perspective, I play a better Force as my RAmarl than 80% of Forces on PSO. Is it because they're dupers? No, of course not, it's because they're inefficient. And efficiency equals skill in Phantasy Star Online.



That sounds more like a kid gloating than someone professing whatever skill they think they have. Good going Zarana, it's nice to see someone shamelessly promote themselves for absolutely no reason.

[Aurra]

Go Celisse! You are very right about PSO requiring skill. Of course, some parts of PSO take a lot more skill than others. The Room in EN4 requires a great deal of skill and knowledge of what to do and what not to do to survive, while you can pretty much BS your way through all of Forest, no matter what weapon you're using. You also need to know where the ADE Gills and such will appear in the Tower quests or else you're going to end up stuck to the floor and shocked/frozen/dead. Tower just requires that you be on the ball, so to speak, rather than incredibly skilled. If you know where everything is and what to use, you'll probably have no trouble.

[Rappy-Assassin]

I myself am getting sick of the whole legit/dupe user/hack user thing. Why can't people just let eachother be. This is a game it does not reflect on your real life. And if u wanna use dupe or hacked items that is fine by me I don't care. Just let people play the way the wanna play. If your legit that's fine but don't plaster it everywhere that's just annoying and abnoxious. What does it matter if people use hacks or dupes or legit items it's just a game that doesn't effect your real life and if it does you need to get a life and maybe a side dish of self-esteem. I'm sick of this whole duper vs. legit "war" it's just a game. And as for the whole pker/ fsoder issue all I have to say is get a life. I don't see how causing people to lose their progress is either fun or benficiery to them and therefore there is no point in doing it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rappy-Assassin on 2003-07-22 17:58 ]</font>

[RuneScapeMan]

Go to cheat sites and you'll understand that cheaters have no skill.
Most of them are already bored and are just waiting for AR codes.

[Zarana]

Haha, typticon, you're just giving me more promotion by making this account just for that one reply. Congratulations on your first post.

Like it or not, what I say is the truth. Oh, and thanks for refering to me as a 'kid,' that was quite mature of you. Too bad I could absolutely massacre you in an argument if we had one, completely debunking your meaningless allegations.

I'm skilled at this game, there's no other way to look at it. You should learn the difference between shameless self-promotion and the truth before making post number two, save yourself a followup to a bad first impression.

[gallaugher]

Apparently he thinks this is gamefaqs & by talking smack about people he's increasing his 'street cred'

[Zarana]

That wouldn't surprise me. But blatant insults from out of nowhere are just ridiculously stupid, don't you think? What a way to make a first impression. Perhaps I should be honored that he made his first post just to be a jerk to me...

[Brett]

lol, maybe I should watch my topics now, it's turned into a small mini war lol, and maybe i should also watch who I argue with...lol, probly people twice my age, I'm only 13....

[trypticon]

On 2003-07-23 13:22, Zarana wrote:
That wouldn't surprise me. But blatant insults from out of nowhere are just ridiculously stupid, don't you think? What a way to make a first impression. Perhaps I should be honored that he made his first post just to be a jerk to me...




You should be honored. It's very rare that I actually voice my opinion that almost everyone that visits this site thinks they are better than everyone else, but with you, I had to make an exception. You see, by rubbing it into everyones face that you: 1.cast all the spells in whatever group you are in all the time, 2.Hit everything around, and get the killing shot to take the most experience while everyone else would only get 80% of the possible experience IF they hit the thing, and 3.That you have the nerve to complain about other people giving YOU the chance to play with THEM, if they knew that you would not give them a chance to play the best that they could, considering a learning curve. You are acting like a child in this, and you should know wbat a child acts like, as you seem to be a twenty-one year old baby sitter.

[Brett]

On 2003-07-23 18:10, trypticon wrote:


On 2003-07-23 13:22, Zarana wrote:
That wouldn't surprise me. But blatant insults from out of nowhere are just ridiculously stupid, don't you think? What a way to make a first impression. Perhaps I should be honored that he made his first post just to be a jerk to me...




You should be honored. It's very rare that I actually voice my opinion that almost everyone that visits this site thinks they are better than everyone else, but with you, I had to make an exception. You see, by rubbing it into everyones face that you: 1.cast all the spells in whatever group you are in all the time, 2.Hit everything around, and get the killing shot to take the most experience while everyone else would only get 80% of the possible experience IF they hit the thing, and 3.That you have the nerve to complain about other people giving YOU the chance to play with THEM, if they knew that you would not give them a chance to play the best that they could, considering a learning curve. You are acting like a child in this, and you should know wbat a child acts like, as you seem to be a twenty-one year old baby sitter.



damn dude, you are totally right!

[P-Man]

Kudos on getting the entire game memorzied. Now Trypt is right. You're basically stealing all the experience and such.