Discussion: Abolishment of the Trade Forums.

[Ambrai]

We are discussing abolishing the trade forums because the only purpose it is serving to our knowledge is to assist dupers in trading their wares. This is against what we stand for.

I will not start a contrast and compare but I will let you decide the fate of the Trade forums.

[rekonstruct]

I don't know that disbanding the trade forum is such a great idea. Granted its basically duper central, if it were gone, they would probably flood into the general forum. I would hate for this place to turn into gfaqs (even though they have also created their own trade forum, and for the most part there are no more trade posts in their general forum, just bullcrap posts mostly). Now, is that going to happen, maybe, if you think the possibility of traders posting thier wares in the general forum is little or none, and if you dont mind deleting said posts, I would be ok with it.

[Maverick]

I for one feel that the trade forum has run its course. It's sorta pointless now, as everything up for grabs or wanted belongs to a few (highly duped) ultra-rares. The average user no longer uses it. I say junk it. It's only taking up bandwidth.

I used to love the trade forum a awhile back (pre-dupe), but now it's nearly impossible to unload something like a Visk (even with nice percentages) because the dupers have flooded the market with weapons 10x better.

[Manifest]

I dont think it should be done away with. I personally think there is some legitimate trade going on there (although Ive never actually gone through with one from that board, the people I try to trade with never show) and by getting rid of that forum you run the risk of filling this place with threads like "need double saber"

[Socrates]

While I kinda agree, I'd have to suggest that we leave it for a few more weeks, just to see. SEGA's server mods are progressing in a pretty orderly fashion, I suspect in a few weeks (myabe sooner!) they'll have implemented mods to both block dupers as well as duped items. Once this has been done, many (certainly not all) of the dupes will have been purged from the system, and 'legitimate' trading can begin anew.

[Maverick]

Yeah, I failed to take into consideration the influx of "I need a lavis cannon" posts in the general forum. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.

[Glider]

I personaly don't care if you keep it or not. I say delete it, if it will make the site go faster.

[Ratsmack]

I'm another one that doesn't mind either way. I don't trade...like ever, so it really holds no real value to me. I agree with the fact that it's giving dupers a place to spread their crap, but...then again, so is the chatroom.

[Cube]

You know what, you need to give up on your perosnal quest to end Duping. No matter what we all try to do to stop it, it aint gona happen. I am against duping but to abolish the Trading boards because some people choose to do dupe is not fair for people like me who use these boards as a way to trade fairly, and securly. Ever since i began trading on these boards i havent been cheated once.

Now Ambrai, answer me this. Whats more important, pleasing us true PSO World fans by keeping the board up, or by taking it down because you beleive duping has gotten out of hand.

Face it. Ending the trading boards will not stop, or slow down duping. the only people able of doing so is Sega. The only thing you will accomplish buy taking down the Trading post, is a loss of viewers including me.

So I strongly suggest that you DO NOT take it down. And Ambrai, why are you giving duping so much atention?!? It ticks me off when evryone talks about it so much! You are encouraging newbies to find out what this process is. So if you plan doing your job which is moderating do so. Have Raganark block messages of those who encourage duping or anyhting of that nature. Dont hurt us, the fare traders who will be affected the most out of a stupid decision that may arise due to your guy's "quest to end duping".

Sorry if i seem rude, or mean but, I have allways hated the fact that when one person does something wrong, others suffer. Its not fare, and i wont stand for it.

Dont take the trading board down.

Your moderators so moderate. Dont take the lazy way out and ban the whole boards alltogether.

[Kamotz]

Cube, think of the trading forums as a big piece of food that's fallen on the floor. The food attracts ants. The dupers are the ants. What do you do? You dispose of the food. Not because it's going to starve the ants and destroy an entire species, it just so you can get rid of the ants and stop the accelerated spread of the the pests.

[Cube]

Lol. That makes no sense. You are obviously only thinking about yourself. You cant be a trader. If you arent a trader then dont reply to this topic. I wont let the Trading boards be taken down because of a few dupers. How about this. These dupers arent going n e were you know. They will all come here and post trading topics. And then these dupers which are so bad and horrible, and ruin the game (sarcasm) will post here instead of on the "then" trading board. Do you like that solution? Didnt think so.

Im willing to bet money the trading boards wont be taken down. Pso world and hopefully these 'moderators' arent stupid enough to make such a half ass decision to try to end duping.

I wish we could end it but like i stated before only Sega can do so. So dont give it so much atention. Some of these people who are posting right now have duped items or are dupers. And you all know it. So dont try to stop somehting that is way out of hand and incontrollable.

Btw I beleive that sega has slmied duping down a LOT. Like by 50% at least. It is real hard and risky for dupers to dupe right now. Good job sega.

[TwiNCannoN]

Nice analogy.

On the topic at hand anyway, I never started trading with people I don't know and now that I know how rampant dupers are I never will. Trading with friends is good enough for me and I don't need a board for that.. only looked in it once anyway and saw a post asking describing a way to dupe, never went back into that forum section.

[Ambrai]

There will be no trade posts in general, they will be deleted on sight, and if someone gets all cocky about it and keeps posting after mutiple warnings they will find themselves suspended.

Cube, this isnt a personal vendetta. I dont care about dupers, but PSO World's stance is NOT to promote cheating, and in our eyes having such a forum is promoting cheating.

[TwiNCannoN]

Like I said, I never really check out the trade board so can't comment that much, but if it's really that bad, how about a temporary board suspension (if that's possible even).. until some given time, maybe v2 release or something. Just throwing another idea into the soup.

[Spy]

*Ahem*

This has been nagging at me for a bit, but I'm under the impression, as are a few others, that a few of the mods/web admins dupe anyways, so what's the big deal? This action reeks of hypocracy on the part of the top brass around here, no offense to any of you.

[Danger_Girl]

Oh Cube dearhttp://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif. You make a few points the I would like to take issue with.

Quote:
I am against duping. Ever since i began trading on these boards i havent been cheated once.

I've got some real bad news for you Cube. If you trade, you have dupes. Sorry, but its the truth. If you have traded for an "uber rare" there is a 99% chance you've got a copy of a copy of a copy. Now being that you said you are against duping. I assume that means you certainly wouldn't want to be trading for them, which means you've been cheated. In fact if you do a lot of trading, I'll bet your loaded with dupes. Trading for dupes, when you know they're dupes, is no different than duping them yourself.

Quote:

Ending the trading boards will not stop, or slow down duping.

No argument form me here. But at least we wont be helping them spread thier garbage.

Quote:

dont try to stop somehting that is way out of hand and incontrollable.

Actually I find its quite controllable. But it requires you to do some difficult things. Saddly, first of all you need to stop trading. Secondly, if you have items that you suspect may be duped, sell them or drop them. It sucks I know, but if you are truely against duping, it's what must be done. Hey I've got well over 400 hours into this game and I use s-beats and a dragon slayer http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif.

Sorry Cube, honest trading in PSO has been dead for weeks. Its too bad! Trading was supposed to be part of the game. Unless it dosen't bother you to be trading dupes. Some say just play the game how you want and have fun. I guess I don't disagree with that. But when I'm in games with people loaded with every uber cool item in the game it ruins the fun for me. So play how you want, just stay away from me. And I'll stay away from you http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif.

[Spy]

BTW I'm serious about the hypocracy stuff. I mean, how in the flipping heck does somebody get a bunch of items like Heaven Punishment, Lavis cannon, a Pian mag, spread needle, s-beats blades, egg blaster, twin-brands, and other stuff like that?

[Danger_Girl]

Hmmmm....I hate to say it Ambrai, but Spy has a good point here. I'm not going to name any names. And I know for a fact your very honesty Ambrai. In fact if not for you, I may still be lying to myself about that Lavis Cannon. But having said that, Spy and I keep our eyes open. We're not stupid....well he's not anyway. You know who were talking about. And if you tell me its legit I will laugh at you. When you say this is against what "we" stand for, its clear that some of the "we" don't exactly stand to tall.

[Spy]

You go Danger Girl!

[Seutekh]

I say ditch the Trade board with qualifications. (They're at the bottom of this uber-long post... feel free to skip the rest to get to them)

Cube: I've got my reasons, and there's a couple things that it seems you're overlooking.

#1 This is a decision to be made by everyone, and that means that each of us has a responsibility to think of EVERYONE on this board before we make our decision. It's a board most of us don't use, populated by an enormous amount of dupers/GS users, etc. and since the official stance is against that behavior it's hypocrytical for us to allow it to stay up.

Yes, it's nice to have it there, and once upon a time, I used it myself.... but there's so little legit trading on there now that it's become rediculous to keep it up.

#2 They take up bandwidth... and being a guy with nothing but a 56k modem, checking these boards has become a nightmare. Ditching the trade board isn't going to solve the problem, but it'd help tons.

Spy: That's not very nice... I've played with Gideon, Ambrai, and Ragnarok, and have never seen ANY of them use anything I couldn't get myself without trading or hacking. unless you're certain they're doing it (in which case, I'd hate to think of how you found out... forget Big Brother... Spy is watching you while you sleep! ^_~) try not to throw out too many allegations, k?

And as far as hypocrysy goes (as I noted to Cube) it'd be pretty nasty to openly oppose duping and cheating on this site, while giving them their very own place to conduct business.

okay... for the rest of you:

The qualifications:
I think that the board should at least be given a chance... wipe it clean and start from scratch. Post information letting people know that the trading of duped items is not condoned or supported by PSO World... If it continues, Nuke it.

Second, I'd like to hear from Ragnarok first. If he says he's got it under control, then fine, leave it the way it is. If he agrees the thing needs to take a bath... then I agree unconditionally.

There was a third one... but I can't remember it. *shrug* Those were the most important ones anyways.

[Sheogorath]

That WAS a great analogy. There really is no reason to keep the trade boards. I look down upon any and all people who trade, since the act of trading in PSO is nothing less then cheating itself.

Really, who is going to trade a Spread Needle? Hmmm? Spy LEgitmately found one, and he clocked in 400 hours before that, right? I found an Inferno Bazooka, and that was after 280 hours. You think anyone would part with 280 hours of hard work and item searching? I think not.

It's already been proven in another board that the Lavis Cannon originated from an Online Japanese Downloadable Quest, which basically means, we americans shouldnt be using it.

When you trade, that makes you worse then a duper, it makes you a gamer who rides the wave of duping, yet is too lazy to actually engage in the practice.

Give me my Soul Eater and my Meteor Smash 40% dark and I'll show ya what mundane rare items can do. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

/rant finished

Flame away! (Ducks)

(Editors note: Sheogorath is in now way saying trading makes you a cheater, but rather, someone who can shut off the little voice in their head that says, "THATS BAD!!". thank you.)

[Spy]

Seu, as a Spy I simply have my ways http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif I have enough circumstantial evidence to be highly suspicious of some of the people around here.

[Seutekh]

*puts on a shirt, then resumes browsing the boards*

[Lenneth]

Well...

I've often found myself wanting a trade board for the things that I probably could not find on my own; for instance, my FOnewearl Anwynn would love to find a tempest or burning mechgun, but I don't think anyone but a purplenum will find something like that. Conversely, it shouldn't be too long before Anwynn should start findinig those coveted lv.15 techs, which everyone seems to want.

I'd love to get a Chaos Arms, a Geist Rifle, or any number of neat weapons that aren't part of the whole "rare" weapon list; I also want to eventually collect all the "custom" items, just to see what they do. =) I tend to be a pack-rat by nature in RPG's, collecting all the funky items in a game just to see if I can find a way to use them effectively.

The problem is, there's no way for me to do this. =( Even if I chose to try to use the trading boards for this, what "trader" wastes his time with a Geist Raygun? That's only 8 stars, so who cares? "I've got a Holy Ray, that owns sooo much more a$$..."

I'd even love to use some of the wackier weapons out there, but I know that if I do so, I run the risk of possibly alienating some of my friends by doing so. Hell, there are even some times I feel a bit leery of using Anwynn's double saber; "what if they think it's duped?" I mean, I'd love to see what it looks like when a force uses a flame visit (if they even can), but...

-sigh- Bottom line: I want to use the trade boards, but I can't. 8-star weapons and the like are the true rares these days. =( However, I can't help but hope that the dupers are just creating rares these days, so will have no further use for the trade forum... but it does seem to be fairly cancerous these days. Very sad. =(

Pax, Lenneth

[-EnemY-]

I haven't been posting here very long but I have watched this board from afar for a good lil while now (bout a month and a half) and I personally see nothing wrong with shutting down the trade forum. If the position of this staff is to not "condone" dupers/cheaters then that is fine.

start rant

On the topic of "where will they go" u guessed it baby............ general topic. On the topic of cheating, if you are going to get rid of trade you may as well ditch cheaters as well kinda goes against your preaching to get rid of trade because of cheaters yet moderate/flame anyone that may post GS codes or cheating methods in the cheat forum where one would think they would belong. Instead the cheaters forum just seems like a big rant page when someone gets an item stolen or is in a lobby where someone is casting magic or "cheating" some other way. I mean c'mon "A place to discuss your ideas on cheating and to name those who have stolen from you". Ones "ideas" on cheating don't always mean bitch about it and flame anyone who has a neat cheat to share or cry about a thief. I personally don't like all the GS hacks and all that ONLINE. Damn the person who may ever cause my save to be corrupt http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_biggrin.gif. If you want to have fun and make a BS character OFFLINE and just see what you can do then fine. I really don't hae much of a problem with it online as long as my character isn't screwed. If it is wah. 200 hrs down the pisser. Make a new one. As far as dupes go most of you sound like a bunch of idiots. "I am pretty sure it's legit." Knowing damn well a good 75$-85% of anything you have traded for has been duped. I agree with a vast majority of people on here that say you aren't likeky to part with some ultra rare you spent hours to get. I wouldn't unless I had to have the other bigger better thingy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_biggrin.gif. I myself have some nice items that I know have to be duped. I don't lose any sleep over it. I have fun. Most of the stuff I do have I have found on other occasions and have given away to friends, perpetuating the community aspect of the game. If they take that item and dupe it to high hell, boo hoo. I have mine. Once again, I have fun. It is a game.


FLAME ON!!!!!

p.s I have been in puck 9 a lot lately.I ususally make an open game called "PSOW PPL ??" or something of the likes and no one joins (i think i have played with slider and one other person once but that has been it, cause i never find slider online when i am on http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_biggrin.gif and warlord?? isn't easy to get either http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_biggrin.gif ) This shows just how much the community aspect has died for the game. Don't flame me with "cause the dupers and thiefs made it that way". I have heard it enough already.

IT IS A GAME.......

rant complete

Pe@ce

[Ambrai]

Seu, Ragnarok and I talked about this before I posted. He posted the exact same thread in the trade forums. So we are in agreeance.

And again, I will reiterate that any trade posts in general will be deleted (not locked, deleted) and repete offences will result in suspension.

[ragnarok]

Okay, after a long and hard look of the communities thoughts, I have decided that it would be best to keep the Trade Forums. I believe that Cube said it best.
I have had my own experience in the past few days with the duping of items. I have recently been online and traded a God/Legs for a Holy Ray, then went online to play. Next thing you know I get that error, "blah bleh bah, you have items that were created illegaly....blah blah" and when I read that for the first time, I was outraged by the fact that I got g'd for a duped item.
At first I was for the idea of abolishing the forum but now I say we keep it.

Now that Sega has made this so. I believe that the duping of items shall slow dramatically.
'
Thanks for your time.

l8ter,

rag

[Cube]

Thanks alot raganark. Your saving yourslef and other PSO world employess a lot of trouble. Most of these people who say "down with the boards" either a.) Dont trade. or B.) Have all the weapons(from dupers) and dont need to trade.

Danger girl. I suspect that you didnt read my whole post. I said that some of my items are Duped.But I didnt dupe them. Some of the items that you have are duped. Admit it. I am against the duping process, but that wouldnt stop me from trading. As long as i trade legit, fare, and safley i have nothing to bitch about when it comes to duped items. You must have misunderstood me when i stated i am against duping. What i ment was is that i believe that Duping is bad, and is a horrible hack in this game. But when i get a duped weapon out of a fare trade im not gona throw it away. I didnt dupe it, so i cant do anything about it.

Theres nothingi can do that will stop duping, and abolishing the trade forums would only make the matters worse for those peoplelooking for a fare trade. Im glad you guys made the right decision. Thank you.

[Ambrai]

The problem most people dont know here is that they didnt stop duping, or even dent it. They stopped items that have either bonus's when they shouldnt (IE S Beats Blade) or have a grinder higher than what it should.

Nothing is changed. So far the response is mixed, so if it ends up being a judgement call I will kill the forum.

[Socrates]

"I look down upon any and all people who trade, since the act of trading in PSO is nothing less then cheating itself."

Wow, Sheogorath, that's a pretty harsh statement. Do you consider yourself to be "cheating" when you buy a loaf of bread? After all, you are giving the baker something you earned in return for something you don't have. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

As to the "people who have uberrares would never trade them away" idea, that's just silly. In theory, the idea was probably that if you found an uberrare that you couldn't use (like a ranger finding a force weapon) then you'd trade that away for an uberrare that you could use. Nothing wrong there.

Plus, as you said before, sometimes the uberrares just ain't that hot, so there's little reason to hold onto them. I admit I don't have many rares, but so far, none of what I've gotten really impress me all that much, and many of my well-ground 'mundane' weapons (with high %es) are more useful to me out on the field.

I respect your opinions, Sheo, but I feel you may be taking the argument a little too far on this one.

[Maverick]

Lenneth -

I have a Tempest Vulcan you can have for free (unless you want to trade me something for it). Private Message me if you want it.

As for the board argument, everyone's made some good points. But no one has really answered my first question (or maybe I phrased it poorly). If the forum stays, do the legit traders (ie. people who want to trade their tempest mechguns for a giest somethingorother) even have a chance of moving their wares? Last month, I posted about a set of S-Beats I'd found and got lots of responses. Just last week I'd posted that I'd found another set of S-Beats I'd be willing to trade and no one cared. Why? Because there's better stuff out there on the market, and S-Beats are commonplace now. I'm selling most of my rares now, simply because if I can't use them and can't trade them, they're just taking up space.

[Ambrai]

Van Jance, you stopped posting here because you attacked the staff and ended up putting your own foot in your mouth.

If you dont like the way I mod, leave. You dont like me because you cant read. Maybe you should start reading and *omg* abiding by the rules. Oh ya, too bad I am no hipocrit.....

For the forum, I havent assumed. I talk to a great many of the posters here each day, and most of them say the same thing about the forum. If I was going to axe the forum I would of done so already without letting you put your 2cp in.

Also for your reading pleasure, let me repost the rules for you to read since you havent....

Ambrai
Staff
Joined: Feb 13, 2001
Posts: 530
From: USA/IL
Posted: 2001-03-09 22:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rules in refrence to the General and Off Topic Boards.

1) Absolutley NO flaming is allowed in any form. Flames will result in your post edited and/or deleted. Muliple instance of flaming can warrent a suspension of 2 weeks.

Flaming is defined as a inflamitory statement towards an individual or group.

2) Any posts that do not belong where they are posted WILL be moved to their proper location and the poster will NOT be notified. ANY mention of cheating will go straight to the cheaters forum. Any posts accusing someone of stealing, cheating, lying will go directly to cheaters as well.

3) Some rants ARE allowed as long as they do not target a group of people or one person.

4) Useless, racist, sexist or general degrading posts will be Deleted the moment I see them.

An example of a useless post is 'Yo I slpt with ya modda and she was gud'.

Double posts will also be deleted. I will delete which ever does not have any responses to them.

5)I do not give favor to any individual or group on these boards.

6)Some innaproprate posts might be on the boards for alittle bit. I am only one person and the way the boards are set up only I can moderate them. When I get to them they will be delt with. I usually check the boards for a total of 10 hours during the week and 5 during the weekend ( per day ).

A personal request:

Please think before you post (kinda like the drinkin thing . When I wake up and go to work I open the boards. I estimate I move about 20 threads a day and edit about 10 posts just in the morning.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me or post them here.

Thank you,

Ambrai X`Vie
PSO World Staff

Ambrai
Staff
Joined: Feb 13, 2001
Posts: 530
From: USA/IL
Posted: 2001-03-06 08:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The way I look at the general Forums is a place to share information and help each other in the game. Unfortunatly as of recent these forums have been flooded with rants about cheaters and who stole this and who stole that.

To date I have been moving posts accusing people of stealing to the proper section (cheaters), but starting today; ANY post in refrence to cheaters that is not worthy of front page news will be moved to cheaters as well.

Some examples:

First post made about Sega shutting the servers down will be left in General because its something 'everyone' wants to know about.
Sequential posts will be moved.

Rants about duping will be moved.

Conversation about duping will be moved.

From now on please consider the Cheaters forum to be a place to discuss/rant about cheating.

Thank you, and again all feedback is appreciated.





You broke the rules and got moderated for it. Dont yell at me because of it. This kind of think is starting to piss me off. If you have a problem you talk with that person, not openly flame.

[MechDan]

>I said that some of my items are Duped.But I didnt dupe them.
>Some of the items that you have are duped. Admit it.
>I am against the duping process, but that wouldnt stop me from trading.

Cube, you just don't get it. We do not have any duped items. We have nothing to admit.

Those of us who are truly against the duping process do not have any duped items, because we DO NOT TRADE. The existence of duped items has killed legitimate rare item trading.

Lenneth, I know how you feel. Personally, I'm more into unusual non-rares because they're often better and simply more fun than most rares. But I won't trade for them because doubtless some dupers out there have finally realized they're better than the rares.

Anyway, back to the original topic: sure, dump the Trading Forum. It will reduce server bandwidth requirements.

[TwiNCannoN]

Don't worry Lenneth, finding the 'rare commons' ain't that hard.. just need to look in the right place, usually caves/mines VHard. Cause remember, if you want a geist raygun, you ain't getting it in ruins vhard, because every drop there of handgun type is going to be a varista (if that one post is right - and after some research I can attest to it).

To support it a little more, me and my friends found 3 rare arms on over 2 hunter ID's.. Burning and Tempest Arms on Bluefull, and Demon's Arms on Oran. Too bad the demon's arms sucks, only does about 260 dmg per special.. ARGH! *helps sheo on his quest for arrest arms*

[Cube]

Mechdan, are you awake? Read previous posts closer before you reply with such a dumb comment. I said If you dont trade then you have NO BUSINESS discusiing the abolishment of the board. PERIOD. I am a trader, and all traders ahve duped items, thats what i was trying to get at, but I had a lot on my mind at that time so i couldnt express that properly. However, Since your not a trader, dont reply to this topic because you have no right to participate in a conversation that affects people like me who love trading and use the board as an advnatage.

But It looks like a got what I wanted. The Trading boards are staying up, and i will try to make sure it stays that way. So there is no point in arguing really since I got what I wanted.

Thanks again raganark for making the right decision.

[Cube]

BTW- if your gona dump a board for bandwith purposes dump one of the pointless boards like rants, or off topic, one of the not as-popular boards.

[MechDan]

Cube, you've got a real attitude problem. I replied to what you wrote, not what you were "trying to get at" but freely admit did NOT express properly.

You say I have no business discussing this topic unless I'm a trader? WRONG. First off, I used to trade before it was cheating (because of duping). But more importantly, the existence of the trading forum affects all PSO World users because it consumes server bandwidth--and we all know how slow it is already and how PSO World is now desperate for donations to keep up with the bandwidth usage.

I take it the policy of PSO World is to NOT encourage cheating. It's no longer possible to trade without cheating except among close friends you already know anyway. What's the purpose of the trading forum, then?

[Spy]

Weird... that's all I'm saying...

[Cube]

.... (laughs at how stupid you sound).....

LOL, you have no right to be here saying that the trade forums should be shut down since you do NOT trade. I dont care what you use to do. Think about others. Think about people JUST getting pso, and want to get on their feet with some new weapons. @sses like you will prevent people like them ever getting a chance to making a fare trade. The trade forums put me on my feet with a fast, reliable, and SAFE way to trade.

Dont ruin it for us because of some Bandwith inconvience you have.

[MechDan]

Safe way to trade? You just said yourself that if you trade, you've got duped items. That doesn't sound safe to me.

The new guy doesn't know much about all the cheating. When Sega cracked down on the gamesharked items, quite a few people posted here complaining about their items being banned not realizing their level 999 mag or +99 egg blaster wasn't legit.

The fact is, trading via the trading forum virtually guarantees trading for duped/hacked items. The average newbie doesn't know this. You know it, but you use it anyway.

Why do you use it? Because you want duped items.

The only users of the trading forum either dupe/hack items, don't care about encouraging duped/hacked items (by trading for duped items), or are ignorant about the duped/hacked item problem. All three such users either cheat or encourage cheating.

That is NOT something PSO World is supposed to encourage.

If you can name a legitimate purpose for the trading forum, please do. So far, you haven't even come close.

Since there's no legitimate purpose for the trading forum, it's at best a waste of precious server bandwidth.

[Stoned_Cat]

s things to say:
1st dont close the trading forum because the trades will pour over into the other forums and theres gonna be a problem...

2nd I think that haveing a duped rare isnt so evil simply because it is impossible to find ALL of the rares you may want. However, when trading for rares make sure it is a fair trade... that way, you in fact "earn" the rare you trade for by trading items you worked hard to find. If legit players followed such a practise legit trading would, once again, be a viable option.

[Scorpio]

Don't you realise that the GSers can now CREATE ANY ITEM THEY WANT??? You really think they'd bother to come here and do something as stupid as... TRADE???

Originally by MechDan;

"..You say I have no business discussing this topic unless I'm a trader? WRONG. First off, I used to trade BEFORE it was cheating (because of duping)."

How did you know whether it was before or after? As far as I know, NO ONE knows the EXACT moment it started. I don't, do you? I can simply find no guarantee or whatsoever to prove that you do not have a duped item in your possession unless YOU NEVER TRADED, EVER! In which case, you have no business commenting on the survival of the Trading Board.

Just my 2 cents... no hard feelings, everyone.

[Mazarin]

Now this is stupid.

Who gives a flying fack when dooping started? I'm sure most people tried to trade in the begining, but then stoped after a while. Others continued to trade.

I got alot of my things thru trading. And yes, chances are that I have some duped items. SO!? Weather or not I drop em dosent mean all dupers/sharkers are suddenly going to grow a concience.

I do take great pride on my legit Frying Pan, Dbl Sabre, Delsabre Buster, and Mag cell 502(now a happy little Soniti ^_^) among other items I have. But just because I got a Chaos Sorcerer's Cane in a trade means I should be banned from all functions of the board?

It's gonna happen. The infestation of duped items is unstopable. Ti's a damn shame, it is. and the demise of the trade forum will not hurt the trend at all. Newbies have plenty of resources to trade and such. I'm also on cable service, so the bandwith means beans to me. But I'm sure there's someone out there running a 14.4.

One accusing another isn't going to solve the worlds problems. Pissing and moaning, bitching and whining. If you don't like it, leave. I'm not stopping anyone. I like it here. Honesty is a rare comoddoty these days. Please don't taint the haven we hold dear to us because you're worried about somone elses morals.

If you're a cheater, ta hell with ya. If you're an innocent victim that likes your stuff, so what? No hurt to anyone. leave it alone.

My 5 yen.

Death to Gidget.

http://www15.brinkster.com/molotov/mit.jpg

<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: Mazarin on 2001-03-22 05:28 ]</font>

[The_Neon_Samurai]

I think the Duper-Board should be taken down. Just look at that thing, Lavis Cannons, Heaven Punishements, rare mags etc. everywhere, it's ridiculous. At least 80% of those have to be dupes. Yes, taking it down will hurt some legid traders but sometimes you just have to make a bit of a sacrifice for the common good. Apart from that legid trading has become an impossibility anyway by now. You have no way of knowing whether an item is duped, do you. Will this measure stop duping? No, of course not, the dupers will just go about their dirty trade somewhere else. But at least PSO WORLD won't provide a plattform for them anymore, thus removing that stain from it's reputation and at least slowing the dupers down. When it comes to the issue of trade posts overflowing into the general board, it's simple:
A) Make it clear that no trade posts must be posted on the general board.
B) Delete post from users that do it anyway.
C) Ban users who repeatedly do it.

[MechDan]

You've got to understand something about bandwidth. The user side bandwidth is real cheap (you already know that). It's the server side bandwidth which costs real money. Create a high demand web site and find out yourself--there's a reason why even big name web sites like deja.com go bankrupt and fold.

Anyway, I know I stopped trading before duping became rampant because I only traded around with my first character in the first couple weeks PSO came out here. Then when my friends got the game I played almost exclusively with them or offline, so I wasn't trading (I was helping them level up). In those early days when everyone was less than level 50, rares weren't traded much--only "common rares". By the time I went back to open games, I'd heard that duping was now possible. It was still quite a while before true rare items became rampant.

But even if I were a flagrant cheating duper hypocrite, my argument would still be just as valid. The PSO World Trading Forum no longer has any valid purpose. Worse, it is now a venue for cheaters, dupers, and their supporters (both witting and unwitting).

The argument that you have no right to discuss getting rid of the trading forum unless you trade duped items to/from strangers is utterly laughable. So only cheaters or their supporters have the right to discuss getting rid of this blight on PSO World? Shameful.

[Seutekh]

Well, I did say with qualifications...

If Ragnarok says he wants it up, then leave it up. If he says he can handle it, I believe him.

So yes, despite the fact that I personally find the forum in it's current sate distasteful at best, I say leave it up.

No, this doesn't mean I agree with anyone else in particular out there. It simply means that I'd put more stock in Rag than in a few nasty people who don't give a damn about this site, other than as a place to g3t sUM ph4t l00tby d00ping.

[Scorpio]

So the thing here is, "how can the board make sure that all offered items are legit?"

.........................

*scratch scratch*

Well, I don't know http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_biggrin.gif I assume that only SEGA can implement the neccessary change so that no duping can be done. I don't think there's much PSO World can do here. The boards is simply a reflection of the game. The reason there are dupers here is because there are dupers in the game, not because PSO World set up a Trade Forum.

There've been shoot-out (duping) in schools (trade board), but it's not the school's (trade board's) fault, and tearing down the school (trade board) won't stop the shooting (duping). It just a reflection of the society (game).

Taking down the board is to me, as good as admitting defeat to the cheaters. "Ok! You win, we can't fight you and your dupped items, and we think that SEGA is too stupid & incompetent to deal with you. But even though we're defeated, we will play the part of the bad losers and take away your little playground here, because that's the only thing we can do. So THERE!"

[MechDan]

The difference is that when there's a school shooting, it's only one or a few shooters out of hundreds of students. The vast majority of the students aren't crazy shooters so the school can still perform its legitimate purpose. The school can still perform its legitimate purpose, so it should stay open.

In the trading forum, practically all of its users are either cheaters or support cheaters (wittingly or unwittingly). There is no such thing as legitimate rare trading with strangers any more. The trading forum can not perform its legitimate purpose.

[Russian]

You know, you can tell just by looking at my list of trading items which one's I've found on my own and which ones are trades. Currently, I'm hoping to find a few certain items then quit the trading biz altogether.

Starting the board over from scratch, as Seutekh had stated, is a good idea, but it probably won't solve every problem... just some. Some's better than none, I suppose, but I'd rather the bandwidth went to the discussion board so everything didn't take forever to load (even on a T-1 connection).

I vote to abolish the board. It was great, and I still use it from time to time, but when it's gone, I won't miss it.

Russian

[Drahktar]

Let's set some things straight:

The Trade Forum is a way for strangers to trade. This is where you go when your friends can't help you.

There is no way to be sure what you're getting from strangers is legit. So trading with strangers is not a legit option.

This site doesn't support things that aren't legit.

End of Trade Forum.

Hope that's simple enough for you guys.