If a classic PS character made an appearance in PSO... READ

[OnnaWren]

...who do you think it would be... AND WHY?

How do you think that they could (would) fit into the overall PSO storyline?

Please, no lame-assed remarks like "because they're kewl", or "PS sucks except PSO".

I'm looking for those who have previous Phantasy Star experience on this one.

[EDIT: ARG, I fux0red up... "Demi" should read "Fulena"... old habits are hard to break. *sigh*]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: OnnaWren on 2003-07-29 15:08 ]</font>

[Neoluke12]

I havent played it is it any good because pso is wicked so im guessing its good!!!

[Daikarin]

Nei, because personally I think she is the icon of PS II.

[ChokingVictim]

raja was such a dirty old man... considering the last times i really played these games, could we get a cheat sheet of which characters from which game?

[Benoit]

Nei, because personally I think she is the icon of PS II.
The question was how she would fit into the PSO storyline.

I havent played it is it any good because pso is wicked so im guessing its good!!!
It's awesome. Go buy/play it. Now.

I voted for Wren. Since PSO could be linked to the Worldships, and being the smart one that he is, I think he would make an appearance to explain about the Dark Force conflict. By the way, there were plans to insert him. You can see it in the Book of Hunters.

[Lucas2k4]

Er....*cough cough* Whats PS? o_O

[OnnaWren]

AHHH! So THAT'S where that pic of him in one Hong Kong gamers' guide I own came from! O_O

I had a suspicion about the inclusion of Shiren- and now it's confirmed! I thought that that was new art... that blows Ripplinger's theory all to hell! Bwaha! XD

*kisses Benoit* You're my hero. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: OnnaWren on 2003-07-29 16:42 ]</font>

[dropslash]

It'd be really awesome to meet some of the old skool, original, Android characters, especially as an Android player...

But my vote goes to Tyler, the Space Pirate from PSII. Rebel of Palm against the Mother Brain, he saves your ass and then sends you on your way. He may not have had the biggest part, but he was slick while he was there.

I'm not sure how he could fit into the current storyline given the time frames. If they were to update him, maybe he was a military prisoner aboard Pioneer 1 who can point you in the direction of unraveling some of the absurd PSO plot lines.

"He might be of a criminal nature! You never can tell! Well, until we meet again! "

edit: your mom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dropslash on 2003-07-29 17:26 ]</font>

[monkeyfist]

whre's odin and rudo?? oh, well. i voted for myau cuz i think it would be interesting in pso had a talking cat http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif it would open a new world of weapons and strategy

[Nambrosia]

I voted for Fal. For two reasons. 1, she's cute. Now for the serious reason,

As you can tell from PSIV, Rika is a numan based off of Nei.

So it seems to me that any numan creation should have ties to Fal. They'd need the data on Nei and Fal to continue making Numans, so why not recreate Fal? I could definatly see a quest where she takes you through Seabed or something, all the while answering all the lingering questions that is the enigma of the PSO plot. >_<

[_Sinue_]

I voted for Demi - mainly because she was created close to the time I think PSO takes place in. In the game, Palma and Motavia are the only two planets mentioned that have advanced civilizations. (Copto is only mentioned in the side game Phantasy Star Adventure) Well, Palma is destoryed in PSII.. and the way the game makes it sound, the Great Collapse was a very sudden catastrophy followed by a steepening decline in population.

Yet, Demi is only 340 some years old in PSIV. She was made well after Palma had been destroyed. Though she could have been made by SEED, their fuctions aboard the weather control sattelites as caretakers seems to elude that the sattelites computer systems weren't self aware and couldn't correct themselves or detect errors. Wren was, of course, built by Palmans seeing as how he's roughly a thousand years old and there's other models like him aboard the worldcraft in Phantasy Star III.

Personally, I think the decline of Algo's population was a slow process.. and that the denizens tried to learn about Mother Brains computer systems in order to re-establish them and stop the decay of their enviroments and social structure. Being by far more advanced than their current technological level, Algolians only harnessed a rudimentary knowladge of Mother Brain's technology. Earthlings, probably played a part in Algolian understanding - the survivors of the Noah massacre escaping to Motavian and integrating silently into their society. They are (IMO) probably behind the true purpose of the Pioneer Project - to recover the last known Dark Falz and use it's power against the Motavians/Dezolians/Coptains. (I think Pioneer launched from Copto.. or Coral as it's presented in PSO. That also explains why only Palma denizens are on Pioneer 1&2, but no Motavians or Dezolians, since Copto was a Palman Colony.)

Anyhow - If Demi type androids were being built around that time, then I think there might be one present on the Pioneers. The proliferation of Numans is probably due to Motavians trying supliment their lowering birthrates with additional population using the "Nei" data found in the biosystems labs. SEED "perfected" Rika after 1000 years of research.. but SUE tells us that their lifespans are indefinate and end abruptly - which sounds like a botch job to me. We already KNOW the Pioneer people have knowladge of their genetic structures and the manipulation of such. Given their increadibly abrupt lifespans, it's not a wonder why they aren't present in PSIV without a technological society to maintain and improve them.

Besides - what about Dark Falz? Without a Profound Darkness to release, what purpose does a Dark Falz/Force/Phallus have? One would think that it would just be relegated to it's last and only mission - to destory everything in it's path until there is nothing left to kill - or is it's killed itself. As you see in PSO, Dark Falz has much more up his sleeve than the simple slaying of sentient beings.

[Nambrosia]

On 2003-07-29 21:25, _Sinue_ wrote:
Besides - what about Dark Falz? Without a Profound Darkness to release, what purpose does a Dark Falz/Force/Phallus have?


Ok I must point out here, there was no "Dark Phallus"


And I still can't understand how Dark Falz even still exists..

Let me quote Le-Roof (from PSIV) here:


...Dark Falz is the most intense part of the Profound Darkness...


So seeing as Profound Darkness is dead, how could a part of him still be wreaking havoc?? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

[tiltnkirby26]

It could be a clone of Nei......

[_Sinue_]

Sorry if the spelling is a bit off(?), but there was a Dark Phallus. He was the end boss of Phantasy Star 1. The translation didn't make it over (It's Falz in the US version) but many JP PS purists still prefer to call Dark Falz Dark Phallus. He also makes an apperance in Phantasy Star IV. When you're in the Rift at the very end of the game, before you fight the Profound Darkness, you'll come some powerful monsters called Dark Phallus.. and they are pretty much identical to the "Dark Falz" you fight in Phantasy Star 1.

As for how Dark Force is still alive.. I personally think he was on Earth, being carried along with the Alyssa III since the heros of Phantasy Star III couldn't truely defeat him. The Dark Force you see in Phantasy Star II is a new one the Profound Darkness released after the destruction of Palma and the seal being weakened. Phantasy Star IV eludes to that (I think) by showing you that with only two planets remaining on the seal - the Profound Darkness is able to release multiple Dark Forces. That is, though, assuming that Ragol is earth. (Which it certainly seems ST intended judging by many of the "Earthlike" features Ragol has - expecially on the title screen to v.1 & v.2)

Although it is still very possible that he only released ONE that millenial cycle.. with the Earthlings bringing Dark Force with them aboard the Noah, and the Profound Darkness releasing the same exact Dark Force (a few thousand years younger) to destory the WorldShips as they escaped Palma and was defeated/Sealed away by Orakio and Laya before it could finish it's task.

Of course that leaves open the question.. where is Ragol and where did the Dark Falz there come from?

[Reenee]

I think we all know that the Profound Darkness had a brain fart and out came DF.

Now, what about Olga Flow?

[Shadowfan7]

I think Noah/Lutz would fit into the PSO storyline. He could explain how Dark Falz was sealed and all.

Here's also a pic of Dark Prophallus when I fought him a while back.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/248216/prophallus.jpg

[Obscenity]

I'm pretty torn between Wren, Raja and Myau. Myau would be cool if you could have pets follow you around as an AI teammate or something. He'd make a good mag, too. Wren is just a badass, and Raja is funny as hell.

[OnnaWren]

Copto=Coral...

Interesting.

[Logical2u]

What about Lavis, the evil ruler in PS1? Oh wait... don't you kill him? Never mind... (He COULD give you Lavis Blades or somethin though...)

[DolmolmKing]

What game was Fal from?

[_Sinue_]

There was never a villan named Lavis in Phantasy Star. The original villans name is Lassic (Or Lasheic if you prefer.. both sound cool) and he makes a return appearance in PS4 as an undead lich type thing being driven through unlife by the will of the Profound Darkness and his cursed armor.

It would be cool if you could find a set of Lasheic armor in PSO.. armor with great stats boosts but highly detrimental status effects. A Lasheic Staff would be nice too.

Fal was the name of Nei in the Japaneese version of Phantasy Star II.

Heh.. I think the creator of the topic should have put both the US and JP names in his poll... since I doubt many of the people reading this thread are making the connections like Pike = Gryz, Fal = Nei, and so on.

[_Sinue_]

Oh, and if the designers of PSO have any plans to connect PSO to Phantasy Star III by confirming the theory that Ragol = Earth... then Mieu would make a great character to make a comeback as well. She would provide infinately valuable information as to how things went down on earth prior to it's "Destruction" and details on how they knew how to seal away Dark Force in the Alyssa III using a symbol similar to the Esper Seal.

Make it a 1 to 3 player quest.. with Mieu being the fourth character. FOcaseals kick serious ass.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Sinue_ on 2003-07-31 05:08 ]</font>

[Benoit]

Fal was the name of Nei in the Japaneese version of Phantasy Star II.
Wrong. It's the Japanese name of Rika in Phantasy Star IV. Go read the Compendium.

And Phantasy Star III has shown us that Dark Force doesn't need Profound Darkness to survive, since Phantasy Star III takes place around the same time as Phantasy Star IV, and ends after Phantasy Star IV, when Dark Force is still 'alive'.

Heh, glad I could be of help, OnnaWren.

Poll 'translation':
Nei from Phantasy Star II.
Fal/Rika from Phantasy Star IV.
Shirren/Wren from Phantasy Star III.
Siren from Phantasy Star III.
Fuoren/Wren from Phantasy Star IV.
Demi from Phantasy Star IV.
Myau from Phantasy Star I.
Su Raja/Raja from Phantasy Star IV.
Mieu from Phantasy Star III.
Miun from Phantasy Star III.
Pyke/Gryz from Phantasy Star IV.

[Valleo]

Hmm... I guess i'd say one of the androids from 4, either Wren or Demi. I mean, look at the dates on your Flowens Swords! Who else could survive for that long? Besides, Demi is cool http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Valleo on 2003-07-31 09:50 ]</font>

[Inu_Ranma]

I'd like to see Nei, 'cause I think it would be really awesome to have to fight her for her claw.

Myau would be cool, 'cause PSO needs a cat.

[_Sinue_]

Yeah, well I meant Rika.. but I guess for some reason I had Nei stuck in my head and it just came out in the post. Proof reading was never one of my strong points. Blah.

[ChokingVictim]

vehicles...
i almost complete forgot about this...

come on, admit it... vehicle fighting in PS4 was damn skippy if not painfully easy fun...

how it could be implemented into a future game would be the question

as much as i enjoy the gameplay of PSO, i think they really need to forget the story elements of it, pay attention to 1, 2, and 4 for a serious offline dedicated sequel...

i think most of us will agree, PS3 had some good ideas...but was ultimately crap

[Master_of_Dragons]

i just got on pso for ep 1 & 2

never played any other

[Logical2u]

On 2003-07-31 05:01, _Sinue_ wrote:
There was never a villan named Lavis in Phantasy Star. The original villans name is Lassic (Or Lasheic if you prefer.. both sound cool) and he makes a return appearance in PS4 as an undead lich type thing being driven through unlife by the will of the Profound Darkness and his cursed armor.



Dare I say I didn't find PS1 that intesesting?... I think I missed most of the storyline...

[Obscenity]

On 2003-07-31 22:58, ChokingVictim wrote:
vehicles...
i almost complete forgot about this...

come on, admit it... vehicle fighting in PS4 was damn skippy if not painfully easy fun...

how it could be implemented into a future game would be the question

as much as i enjoy the gameplay of PSO, i think they really need to forget the story elements of it, pay attention to 1, 2, and 4 for a serious offline dedicated sequel...

i think most of us will agree, PS3 had some good ideas...but was ultimately crap



Ugh, another PSIII hater. It was an awesome game, and if Sega is stupid enough to only remake 1,2 and 4 for the PS2 like they're planning right now, I'm going to be severely pissed. Not that they care. It didn't stop them from not releasing the PS Collection for the Saturn here. Or Scenario 2 and 3 for Shining Force III. I can feel my anger rising.

[ashramrak]

come on Nei is great but she's lost.... forever and ever http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif(

beside I believe (wrong?) pso takes place a long time after ps3 and 4;

The most plausible character to appear in pso is an android

or maybe Lutz descendants doing the "I sleep in a freezer" thing as in ps2


please sega just do this; we want a character from PS which can explain us the link between PS and PSO http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[NeoLon]

I'd have to say Nei cause that's the only one i know lol (the only PS game i have is a 1 hour trial of PSII i got from sega.com lol) she is cool tho, cause she starts out w/ Resta!

[Benoit]

I'd like to see Nei, 'cause I think it would be really awesome to have to fight her for her claw.
Heathen! Burn in hell! How DARE you fight one of the most memorable characters in gaming history!

as much as i enjoy the gameplay of PSO, i think they really need to forget the story elements of it, pay attention to 1, 2, and 4 for a serious offline dedicated sequel...
Overworks stated they would never make a Phantasy Star game again. Phantasy Star IV was the last true Phantasy Star game. Let the people of Algo(l) rest in peace, please... And the story of PSO is great, no matter what.

i think most of us will agree, PS3 had some good ideas...but was ultimately crap
Heathen! BURN! Phantasy Star III was still great. It would be the best Phantasy Star if only Sega would have given enough time and cartridge space to the man who was the head of the project.
I agree that this game is not for everyone, but most will agree that it's still good.

Dare I say I didn't find PS1 that intesesting?... I think I missed most of the storyline...
There wasn't that much story. Most was left to your imagination.

Ugh, another PSIII hater. It was an awesome game, and if Sega is stupid enough to only remake 1,2 and 4 for the PS2 like they're planning right now, I'm going to be severely pissed.
They can't do anything about it. They don't have the plans and all the ideas of the one who was responsible for the game. That man left Sega a long time ago. Phantasy Star III really should be finished someday. :'(

please sega just do this; we want a character from PS which can explain us the link between PS and PSO
There is no link. It's just an online game with Phantasy Star sauce.
The creators admitted that it was a separate game. There are enough facts that are contradicting and prove that this game can't take place in the same universe.

cause she starts out w/ Resta!
To be 100% correct, you would have to say Res. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif
Damn, I so have to replay that game. Last time I played it was to get Nei to LV 50, which succeeded. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[ashramrak]

well PS3 is great but really different

If I'm not wrong it was done by sega of america while the others were done by sega of japan (with many staff members from actual overworks and sonic team http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif, sound team "BO" forever !)


for that poor little Nei I'm currently taking my revenge over Nei First as "my" Nei is lvl 108 http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif


and now I don't know any Sak or Nasak spells http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Benoit]

If I'm not wrong it was done by sega of america while the others were done by sega of japan
No, it was another Japanese Sega team, I'm sure.

Your Nei is LV 108? Do you mean a PSO character, or did you hack your game?

[ashramrak]

On 2003-08-01 13:09, Benoit wrote:

If I'm not wrong it was done by sega of america while the others were done by sega of japan
No, it was another Japanese Sega team, I'm sure.

Your Nei is LV 108? Do you mean a PSO character, or did you hack your game?



I meant pso char

hacking ps2 to play with Nei from beginning to end sounds attractive tough http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif


for ps3 > ok I though it was an american game

but we agree that the staff who made it is different from ps1,2,4 isn't it ?





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ashramrak on 2003-08-01 14:03 ]</font>

[ashramrak]

oops; sorry, double post http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ashramrak on 2003-08-01 14:01 ]</font>

[Benoit]

hacking ps2 to play with Nei from beginning to end sounds attractive tough
You don't even have to hack Phantasy Star II to do it. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
When Nei fights Neifirst, have her lose. In the battle where Rolf and co. fight Neifirst, revive her with a Moon Dew. Then she'll still die, but there is a glitch that causes her to remain in the party with this method. The only problem is that you can't enter your house (and clone labs? not sure) if you want to keep her. She'll be weak compared to the others further on, though, it'll be hard.

but we agree that the staff who made it is different from ps1,2,4 isn't it ?
Yes.

[ashramrak]

Yes cause you don't find any new armor/weapon for her after Mota ....

sounds like a challenge I think I'll try it http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Guntz348]

The only problem here is, Ragol is not and can not possibly be earth. Ok here's where it gets a little confusing, but I'll try to explain exactly how it all pans out. The main reason for this is because in the PS universe, earth was destroyed around AUW 121. When palma was destroyed the Alissa III was sent through a black hole time rift, 2313 years into the past and crash landed on Earths moon. The Earthmen found this ship, and new that there planet had only about 100 years left before they had totally ruined. They took the reckage and built the Noah Spaceship. They then journeyed through space and wound up in Algo. These are the last remaining Earth men, these are the same one that Rolf and company kill at the end of PSII.

This pretty much makes it so that around AUW2200 when PSIII happens on the world ship, PSIV happens at about the same time on Moto. With out the 3 planets to seal the darkness it, it can send it self out in multiple places with multiple incarnations.

Now if you look real close at a lot of the clues given in ruins of PSO, you'll see that it's really a space ship, from earth. That makes it so Ragol can not be earth. This should be the Noah from PSII as this is the only earth ship that had the abbility to fly into deep space.

It's really confusing but if you wanna read the most well put together timeline for the PS universe, this is where I got all my info, check out http://www.phantasy-star.net/psu/psu.html

This is the Phantasy Star Ultimate. It's just about the most comprehensive time line ever to come from a third party. It includes PSI-IV and Gaiden and Adventure for Game Gear. Check it out and let me know what you guys think of it.

Oh yeah and how in the hell did I miss and old school PS thread!?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Guntz348 on 2003-08-02 13:49 ]</font>

[Benoit]

As I mentioned in another thread, that timeline is biased by the theories of the two >censored< that put it together.

The only problem here is, Ragol is not and can not possibly be earth.
There's been a lot of debate over this, but I believe also that it's not Earth. Sure, at first sight it seems like it, but if you look closer, you'll see that it doesn't resemble Earth at all. There is just no evidence pointing to Ragol being Earth.

The main reason for this is because in the PS universe, earth was destroyed around AUW1200.
Firstly, it's AW. Secondly, that can't be true. If you look at Phantasy Star II's opening narration after the title screen, you will read that Mother Brain entered Parman society in AW 845. So they were there long before AW 1200, with already the knowledge that their planet was destroyed.

When palma was destroyed the AlissaIII was sent through a black hole time rift, and crash landed on Earths moon.
It's Alisa III. And that ending is only one of the four possible endings of Phantasy Star III. Sure, by popular opinion, it's the one that best connects the series, but it's not confirmed in any other game of the Phantasy Star franchise, so we can only guess what really happened. For the record, to get that ending Rhys must have married Lena. Why would he do that after having done a huge quest to save Maia, and having loved her even since they met?
Also, that it chrashed on Earth's moon is only speculation.

This pretty much makes it so that around AUW2200 when PSIII happens on the world ship, PSIV happens at about the same time on Moto.
Mota(via). Phantasy Star II taking place in AW 1284, and being that it has been 1000 years since Orakio and Laya, it's AW 2284 or later, at the same time that Phantasy Star IV begins, or later.

Now if you look real close at a lot of the clues given in ruins of PSO, you'll see that it's really a space ship, from earth.
What makes you say that it's from Earth?

This should be the Noah from PSII as this is the only earth ship that had the abbility to fly into deep space.
We don't know if they had/could build those ships. Their technology was far more advanced than ours, and they could have copied the technology from the Alisa III, if that ending did take place.

Guntz, could you please answer my PM from a few days ago?

[Kire]

o.O Why hasn't anyone mentioned Alis? I mean..she was the first person to defeat DF in the entire series. As for PSIII, it was made by STI, an American division of Sega. Which explains why it wasn't quite as entertaining as the other three original Phantasy Stars.

And I always thought PSO was supposed to be like, an alternate universe or something to the original PS series.

[ashramrak]

On 2003-08-02 14:21, Kire wrote:
o.O Why hasn't anyone mentioned Alis? I mean..she was the first person to defeat DF in the entire series. As for PSIII, it was made by STI, an American division of Sega. Which explains why it wasn't quite as entertaining as the other three original Phantasy Stars.

And I always thought PSO was supposed to be like, an alternate universe or something to the original PS series.



You're right but it sounds so cool searching for a connection between the games http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

anyway that's really the point; with the actual PSO plot ; any PS classics connection is pure speculation....

[Logical2u]

*SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT*



I think that the connection between the oringinal PS games and PSO is that after PS2 3 ships leave the exploding Palma and go to Motavia, Devoria (sp?) and Coral! And guess where the Pioneer ships were launched from? Coral!

[_Sinue_]

The PSU timeline is a good resource to look into, but you have to remember than a good deal of that timeline is based purely around fanfiction. It's a "Plausable scenario", and nothing more. You have to be careful when determining what was taken from the actual games and what was taken from the authors imaginations.

Personally, I believe that Ragol is Earth. They both fit more or less geographically. There are some substancial changes in topography, but there are enough likenesses that I find it hard to simply pass off as coincidence. Both in the v.1 title screen and Ep II planet you can see many similarities, such as Arabian penincula, Africa & Madagascar, and even North America complete with Florida and the great lakes. Mexico is, for some reason, covered by water.. but were it there it would connect N.America to what looks like a flooded S. America. The differences though, are almost as striking as the similiarities.

Speaking purely in storyline, I believe that that the Sean ending to PSIII was the true one. In Sean's ending, the Alyssa III gets sent back in time, but doesn't crash land on Earth's moon. Instead, it's contacted by the London Communications Center and welcomed to Earth. This puts the Alyssa III on Earth, in tact, and with survivors. The Earthmen then used it's fully functioning systems to gain a better understanding of it's technology - such as weather control, artifical sattelites, inter-galactic space travel, massive worldship construction.. ect. While researching the ship, I believe that Dark Force "Whispered" to them from his prison in the sunken temple. Though he wasn't directly controlling the Earth men by any means.. I think he definately had some role to play in their turning for the worst.

Mankinds natural stupidity lead to their own destruction. They began irresponsibly applying this new technology to the Earth without fully understanding the ramifications it would have. I don't doubt that the weapon technology present on the Alyssa III was also used for war. The combination of a deteriorating enviroment and weapons of mass destruction could very well have lead to the "destruction" of Earth. After all, that term when used in our everyday vocabulary rarely ever means the vaporization of our planet, but rather the destruction of our ecosystem.

Using the technology of the Alyssa III, they build a space ship (not a world ship) to travel to the home planets of their Alien visitors with the intent to weaken and eventually destory them. They were very careful this time.. arriving some 200 years before the start of PSII, they created the super computer Mother Brain to handle all system wide planetary management. Their original intent, I believe was to terraform Motavia and invade it.. as it was only a colony of Palma and would not put up a significant struggle compaired to the home planet. I doubt they really wanted to destory Palma itself, although they admit to it at the end of the game. This could have been out of the misguided thought that taking out the home planet of Palman civilization would crush any significant opposition.. and of course Dark Force was behind the manipulation - using Gilan's crash into Palma as a way to get rid of Rolf and his crew. Le-Roof states in PSIV that the Profound Darkness (not the earthmen) was the one who destoryed Palma in battle. The Dark Force aboard the Noah was a new one released in that millenial cycle, hidden away aboard the Noah to manipulate from the shadows. The Dark Force you find in Phantasy Star III which escaped aboard the Alyssa III was a new one released due to the weakening of the seal.

Now besides that, there is other visual clues as well. First off, the Ruins space ship cannot be the Noah. It's far too massive and diverse. However, each section of the ruins could represent the "Underbelly" of each domed area on the World ship. Not to mention there are a few "Windows" you can look out of to see structures off in the distance while exploring Ruins 1. The Noah had no such enclosures. There is only one place you break through to the "Surface" in the Ruins.. and that is Falz's chamber. When you first enter the Falz boss area, look around. You're in a valley, which could very well represent the bottom of a dried up lake. By the gravestones to your right, you see exposed sections of stone flooring.. indicating that there is some sort of structure underneith. The ruins of the sunken palace? I believe so.. because look at the obelisk above Falz's Pandora's box. It's the same art style and design as what you find in the VR Temple - which was undoubtably designed after the Sunken Palace found in PSIII.

There are a few unanswered questions though. If Ragol is Earth.. then are there no remnants of our being here. Rico posed the question "Why didn't sentient life exist here before?" Perhaps it did.. and information about it was concealed by the scientists and military to help keep the true purpose of the Pioneer Project a secret. After all, you only explore a very small portion of Ragol in PSO. Pioneer 2 may have made the same discoveries, but were also silenced by the powers that be, as you can see there is a massive power struggle between the lab and the military in Ep II. Hence, Nastasha emphesising that your mission to Gal De Val is a "Personal Request" rather than a offical order. It seems that even the scientists are being kept in the dark.

The seals on the door of the Spaceship matching the Esper seal Rune wears in PSIV is another mystery. However, I don't think those seals were necessary to bind DarkForce within the spacecraft. After all, I doubt that was the only exit to the craft.. and the legend of Orakio and Laya in PSIII prove that Dark Force can be sealed even without the Esper seal. Once you take away that purpose, it's not that much of a roadblock in the theory. Since noone, not even Lutz/Rune, knew the true purpose of the Seal until Phantasy Star IV, it couldn't be used with that purpose unless the game took place after PSIV and it was Rune or an Esper who sealed it away. Yet.. after PSIV there was no Profound Darkness to release a Dark Force.. so where did the Dark Force come from? It's because of that, that I believe the Seal on the door to the space craft was merely ornamental rather than purposeful. The pillars were probably built by Earthmen as a way to originally open the door to the craft. Besides.. what good is a seal once it's broken.. and it's already been proven by Rico and Flowen that the seal has been broken before - and yet - you find it sealed up again when you journey down there after defeating Vol Opt.

Granted, there are even more questions which have yet to be answered.. but I believe that the bulk of the information points to the Space Craft being the Alyssa III and of Ragol being Earth. To me, this explanation fits better and wraps things up better than the other theories could.

[Benoit]

As for PSIII, it was made by STI, an American division of Sega.
No, it was definitely a Japanese team.

And I always thought PSO was supposed to be like, an alternate universe or something to the original PS series.
Woohoo! Another someone who agree with me! ^_^

I think that the connection between the oringinal PS games and PSO is that after PS2 3 ships leave the exploding Palma and go to Motavia, Devoria (sp?) and Coral! And guess where the Pioneer ships were launched from? Coral!
400 ships were launched. It's Dezolis.

The PSU timeline is a good resource to look into, but you have to remember than a good deal of that timeline is based purely around fanfiction. It's a "Plausable scenario", and nothing more. You have to be careful when determining what was taken from the actual games and what was taken from the authors imaginations.
Yeah.

Personally, I believe that Ragol is Earth. They both fit more or less geographically.
Yeah, right. Then explain this:

Rico:
My first question about Ragol was, "Why didn't any sentient life exist here?"
But these monuments are the only evidence I see...
If it was Earth, there would be debris from the Earthmen all over the place.
Plus, you can't judge it by looks.

I believe that that the Sean ending to PSIII was the true one. In Sean's ending, the Alyssa III gets sent back in time, but doesn't crash land on Earth's moon. Instead, it's contacted by the London Communications Center and welcomed to Earth.
Actually, that's Aron's ending. And why does everyone say Alyssa III? It's Alisa III!

arriving some 200 years before the start of PSII, they created the super computer Mother Brain to handle all system wide planetary management
While I agree on the events, they arrived sometime before AW 845. Phantasy Star II's opening narration tells us that's the data when Mother Brain's network began.

I doubt they really wanted to destory Palma itself, although they admit to it at the end of the game. This could have been out of the misguided thought that taking out the home planet of Palman civilization would crush any significant opposition.. and of course Dark Force was behind the manipulation - using Gilan's crash into Palma as a way to get rid of Rolf and his crew.
I believe that the Earthmen were corrupted by Dark Force, and became evil that way.
And if Dark Force really wanted to get rid of Rolf, he would just have blown up the satellite, which name is Gaira/Gaila. He just wanted to destroy Parma, and killing Rolf was an added bonus.

they build a space ship (not a world ship) to travel to the home planets of their Alien visitors with the intent to weaken and eventually destory them
No, they were not evil. Their original intent was probably to live among them.

The ruins of the sunken palace?
Interesting.

There are a few unanswered questions though. If Ragol is Earth.. then are there no remnants of our being here. Rico posed the question "Why didn't sentient life exist here before?" Perhaps it did.. and information about it was concealed by the scientists and military to help keep the true purpose of the Pioneer Project a secret. After all, you only explore a very small portion of Ragol in PSO
Yep, and that's the problem why Ragol can't be Earth. They couldn't have cleaned it all up. There would have been far too many debris.

The seals on the door of the Spaceship matching the Esper seal Rune wears in PSIV is another mystery. However, I don't think those seals were necessary to bind DarkForce within the spacecraft. After all, I doubt that was the only exit to the craft.
That's one thing that proves that the people of Pioneer can't be from Algo in origin. They would have found it in their records. Not only Rune, but Kyra wears that symbol too. I personally think that the seal only remains open a limited time, since Rico already opened it once and it's closed when you arrive. A friend of mine says that the seal was probably generated by Pioneer 1, to keep Dark Force there after its awakement. As a backup, he says that the military could enter the Ruins. I don't remember it all too well, though. Doesn't make much sense to me, though.

The pillars were probably built by Earthmen as a way to originally open the door to the craft. Besides.. what good is a seal once it's broken.. and it's already been proven by Rico and Flowen that the seal has been broken before - and yet - you find it sealed up again when you journey down there after defeating Vol Opt.
Earthmen can't have built it. Why would they know/place that sign? There were no Espers aboard the Alisa III, or any worldship.

Note: If anyone mentions something of the Seat of the Heart or the Tower quests, please note it with *SPOILER*. Thank you.

[Superfly_TNT]

On 2003-07-29 14:28, OnnaWren wrote:
...who do you think it would be... AND WHY?

How do you think that they could (would) fit into the overall PSO storyline?

Please, no lame-assed remarks like "because they're kewl", or "PS sucks except PSO".

I'm looking for those who have previous Phantasy Star experience on this one.

[EDIT: ARG, I fux0red up... "Demi" should read "Fulena"... old habits are hard to break. *sigh*]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: OnnaWren on 2003-07-29 15:08 ]</font>


PS sucks except PSO!! lmao, you asked for it.

[_Sinue_]

I'll explain in greater detail when I get home, but for now I have to get headded off to work.. so you'll have to wait for my response till then.

[_Sinue_]

If it was Earth, there would be debris from the Earthmen all over the place.
Plus, you can't judge it by looks.

Well, to be fair, none of us have a clear picture of what the Earth was like both prior to and post launch of the Noah. Earthlings in the PS story are portrayed as villans, greedy and manipulative - serving only theirselves. It's acutally kind of a spot on interpretation of our species. Many things could have happened after the launch of the Noah that we don't know about. News of the world being destoryed would most certianly bring havok to society.. and just like in a riot.. it tends to bring out Mankind's worst traits. Imagine that on a grand scale with futuristic weapons of mass destruction involved. I still agree that there should be SOME debris left over.. but almost 2,000 years is a long time for a planet to recover. Not to mention, if the Earthlings which integrated into Motavian society after PSII are the driving force behind the Pioneer Project.. they could very easily cover up the existance of said ruins. There's a lot of stuff kept secret from the player and other NPCs in the game.. that could very well be one of them.


Actually, that's Aron's ending. And why does everyone say Alyssa III? It's Alisa III!

Ah yes, it's been awhile since I last played PSIII, so excuse the mistaken name. Yet the point remains, they were contacted and welcomed to Earth in one of the endings rather crash landing into the moon. As for mispelling the AlysaIII's name.. meh.. force of habit I guess. I can never spell Nintnendo right either. = /


While I agree on the events, they arrived sometime before AW 845. Phantasy Star II's opening narration tells us that's the data when Mother Brain's network began.

As I said, some 200 years before PSII.. Some as being a rough estimation. Some would say the Earthmen were messing with Algolian life as far back as PSI's time.. and that it was the Earthmen who gave Lasheic his enchanted armor which corrupted him. I don't quite believe that though.


I believe that the Earthmen were corrupted by Dark Force, and became evil that way.
And if Dark Force really wanted to get rid of Rolf, he would just have blown up the satellite, which name is Gaira/Gaila. He just wanted to destroy Parma, and killing Rolf was an added bonus.
No, they were not evil. Their original intent was probably to live among them.

Yes, it was a means to many ends. It killed two birds with one stone - litterally. In the Japaneese version of PSII, Rolf and the other died aboard the sattelite Gaila and were later revived or clone by Tyler who recovered their bodies. The Earthmen, I think, are fully capable of being ruthless villans bent on taking by force what they could have gotten though friendship. It wasn't so much Dark Forces influence (though that admittedly WAS a factor) on them that caused them to be this way.. but it was good ol'e fashioned Human nature. Why should they share the land and inegrate their culture into Motavias when they could just conquer it and keep their culture and race pure? It's not like humanity has a real great track record with these sorts of things you know. (*Cough Hitler, PolPot, Saddam, Milosevic, Cough*) I see it almost as a Sci-Fi version of Manifest Destiny.* (*-Explained at the bottom of the post)


That's one thing that proves that the people of Pioneer can't be from Algo in origin. They would have found it in their records.

Not necessarily. Remember, the Earthmen/MotherBrain controlled all aspects of their society. This influence reached from weather, economy, space travel, to even the mundane such as media influence. Even in PSO's time you see evidence of information supression by Nol Rinale's request to go down and see the planet for herself because the "Powers that Be" decided to keep everything hush hush from the public. The reason given is not to spread panic, but as you can see from "Gran Squall", there's more to it than just that. Someone has a hidden agenda they don't want revealed... and their high enough up to have the military on their side. The Espers, on the other hand, are a Hermitish people who stick to the snow covered mountains of Dezolias and have very little to do with the goings on of day to day life in the rest of the system. Mother Brain or subsequent information supressors could not affect them.. because until the end of PSII - noone knew they even existed.

The Pillars, I think, represent a Human key fitting an Alien lock. Perhaps the Earthmen locked it away to keep other warring factions from gaining it and control of it's technology in the last days of society on Earth? Perhaps in their final moments, Mankind relized the mistake and the power present in the alien craft and locked it away so that others could not stumble across it unless they knew the meaning of the seal - and were themselves the decendants of those who originally inhabited the craft which were capable of dealing with the dark god? Regardless, the seal is of no concequence to Dark Falz as shown by the opening movie. It's closed when Flowen first enters. It's closed when Rico first enters. And it's closed when you first enter. In all the time of it's opening and closing.. which path did Dark Force choose to take when escaping to destory Pioneer 1? Streight up through the belly of the craft and through the dirt. If it were an Esper creating the seal.. I'm sure they would have done it right the first time. To me, it looks like a piss poor attempt by someone who only had half - or no- understanding about it's power.


Note: If anyone mentions something of the Seat of the Heart or the Tower quests, please note it with *SPOILER*. Thank you.

Yeah, sorry about that. I figured if you came into a thread like this, you were going to get a ton of spoilers thrown at you so there would be no need to mark anything with *Spoiler*. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

(* For those who don't know, Manifest Destiny was a document created in the 1840's by politicians to help expand the territory the US had recieved from the French in the Louisiana Purchase. However, that land was already settled by hundreds of Native American tribes who were wary of the White Man after the atrocities he commited to their brothers living on the eastern seaboard. In order to create a peaceful enviroment to settle, the Manifest Destiny document was drafted to give white settlers the "Devine Right" to drive out the heathen from this land that "God had given them" - and that it was their duty as Americans and servants of god to either convert and assimilate the Native Americans or massacre any savages that stood in their way. To date, it's the clearest form of rationalized genocide which is not considered a horrible atrocity or war crime and shuned the world over. Historians merely swept it under the carpet. = / )





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Sinue_ on 2003-08-03 22:45 ]</font>

[Benoit]

PS sucks except PSO!! lmao, you asked for it.
STFU.

I still agree that there should be SOME debris left over.. but almost 2,000 years is a long time for a planet to recover.
Yeah, but there would be buildings all over the place.

As I said, some 200 years before PSII.. Some as being a rough estimation. Some would say the Earthmen were messing with Algolian life as far back as PSI's time.. and that it was the Earthmen who gave Lasheic his enchanted armor which corrupted him. I don't quite believe that though.
Some 200 years means 100 to 300 at best. AW 845 is further off.
And I don't believe that pre-PSI theory either. The Compendium mentions them arriving in AW 843, and there's no reason why that wouldn't be true in the English version.

The Earthmen, I think, are fully capable of being ruthless villans bent on taking by force what they could have gotten though friendship. It wasn't so much Dark Forces influence (though that admittedly WAS a factor) on them that caused them to be this way.. but it was good ol'e fashioned Human nature.
Yeah. But I still think that their original intention was peaceful.

Not necessarily. Remember, the Earthmen/MotherBrain controlled all aspects of their society.
I know, but after Phantasy Star IV, it would have been common knowledge that Espers existed.

Perhaps the Earthmen locked it away to keep other warring factions from gaining it and control of it's technology in the last days of society on Earth?
Very unlikely. They could just have taken it with them, and why would they care? They were going far away anyway. Wasn't much technology inside.
[/quote]If it were an Esper creating the seal.. I'm sure they would have done it right the first time. To me, it looks like a piss poor attempt by someone who only had half - or no- understanding about it's power.[/quote]
That's where that "no link to other Phantasy Stars" comes into play, I guess. But what's better? A seal that is gone once broken, or a seal which some time after it's broken recloses itself?

*goes to play Seat of the Heart*