Speaking Japanese

[AUTO_]

I've decided I'm going to TRY to learn Japanese, and I have some questions for those who do speak it.

Ballpark figure...how long you think it would take someone to be fluent in japanese if they worked at it every day?

Does anyone have any good FREE SITES to learn japanese with an easy interface, etc?

I'm taking up Japanese simply to "pump-up" my PSO experience (not kidding), as I think it would add a lot to the game...for me.

[Atax]

http://www.japanese-online.com/

There are 5 experience levels in Japanese:

Minimal

Daily Conversation

Business (Nihongo Kentei 2-kyu)

Fluent (Nihongo Kentei 1-kyu)

Native

[AUTO_]

On 2003-08-25 01:01, Atax wrote:
http://www.japanese-online.com/

There are 5 experience levels in Japanese:

Minimal

Daily Conversation

Business (Nihongo Kentei 2-kyu)

Fluent (Nihongo Kentei 1-kyu)

Native



Thanks atax http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

How long would it take someone to be considered native if they work at it everyday (assuming they are fast learners, etc)?

[Atax]

I'm fairly sure it's determined by the number of Kanji you know.

[Inu_Ranma]

Hm...

The citizenship test of Japan requires working knowledge 10,000 Kan'ji. I have a pal who passed it http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

For the sake of speaking on PSO? I'd say working knowledge of anywhere between 200-500 Kan'ji should suit you very well. That takes, at college pace, approximately 15 months.

[Nazo]

Dude, two words.

Be around them. OK, so that's 3, but that's not the point. I was in Japan 1st~6th grade, and eventually worked up the ladder from there, since I heard Japanese everywhere. I'm not saying that u should jump into a Japanese server and attempt to talk with them, but try to get around some people that may be able to help, online or in real life. I myself learned from playing video games *hint hint, nudge nudge*, such as Pokemon and Mario. Don't laugh, because list-requiring games such as pokemon have a variety of hiragana and katakana use, and in coerce with the syllables, I managed to learn to speak and write and recognize both the Hira/Katakana alphabet.

As for Kanji, I can't really tell you much. If you can get a tutor or something, that'd be great. Get one of those Learn to Speak Japanese! books off a bookstore and hit the books. Learning kanji can be tuff stuff, but once u get the basic ones (like mountain, water, tree, etc.) you should be able to climb up the ladder.... slowlllly....



Which brought attention to me... I was cleaning my room out since I'm moving to another house like 10 minutes from here, cuz its newer... And I found my old Japanese tests. And wow, there were a whole bunch of JR (Japanese Railway) stations that I didn't recognize!!! My Jap is slooooowly slipping...

[Captain_Dude]

Meh, if ya really wanna learn japanese goto a class or get a tutor or something.
All those teach yourself japanese things I found to be pretty useless (up until I gave up really wanting to learn japanese as I would have no practical use for it, unless I got a job fansubbing japanese movies, anime, etc).
They're basically electronic flash cards. You'd get the same affect from read a Japanese to English dictionary (if such a thing is made) and trying to form sentances...


Meh, I could be wrong, but whatever. I know all the programs I tried didn't teach me anything other than how to say "Young Boy and a dog" ^.^;


Bah, I find Patois to be a more interesting language anyway.

[brillyfresh]

actually, Joyo Kanji, or everyday-use kanji, consists of 1,945 characters, that should be learned to be fluent in reading Japanese, and that is on top of the phonetic 46 hiragana characters and 46 katakana characters

and speaking, realistically, would probably take a few years to master and be fluent, although exposure to Japanese-speaking people accelerates that to maybe only a couple years

[Kadavreski]

hogohashira oosugiru

[Kent]

Kore wa amerika-go de nan desu ka.

[brillyfresh]

On 2003-08-25 09:44, Kent wrote:
Kore wa amerika-go de nan desu ka.



eh, amerika-go ... you mean eigo?

[Inu_Ranma]

He propably means Amerikanjin....not sure, though. It's kinda silly to write Katakana in Romaji.

[Shattered_weasel]

my head hurts

[Dhylec]

though i'm self learning kanji, i'm doing it for general knowledge..
heheh, learning japanese.. the reality is much more harsh than the fantasy http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif
a thread from animenewsnetwork for those who want to know http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2850

[Inu_Ranma]

Hm....THat thread nailed a lot of it. The Japanese don't like foreigners there (Gaijin, in Japanese), and they really don't like it when foreigners gain citizenship. Hence the many thousands of Kan'ji which are required to gain citizenship while scarcely 1.5K are conversationally used. My friend who passed the test passed it because they also have a limit for Gaijin on corporate sports teams, so he got citizenship so that he wasn't a Gaijin by law anymore and another tall person could be on the basketball team for Adobe Sys. Japan. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[BogusKun]

BogusKun writes...

Boku wa nihongo wo surasura hanasemasu!
15-nichi(mon) wo benkyoshimashita! LoL

[Reenee]

Ogenki desu ka, ya'll? o_O

[Kent]

On 2003-08-25 11:24, brillyfresh wrote:


On 2003-08-25 09:44, Kent wrote:
Kore wa amerika-go de nan desu ka.



eh, amerika-go ... you mean eigo?



*facepalms*

Hai, eigo.

[LamerPanda]

I need a translator just for this thread. O_o

I'm going to take Japanese in college if for no other reason than to know what the frell you people are talking about, but I'd also like to be able to understand what half the doujinshi I have says... n_n

[Nai_Calus]

On 2003-08-26 05:17, LamerPanda wrote:
I need a translator just for this thread. O_o

I'm going to take Japanese in college if for no other reason than to know what the frell you people are talking about, but I'd also like to be able to understand what half the doujinshi I have says... n_n



"Yamete, oshiri ga itai!" *runs*

Um... Ore wa baka na gaijin da zo.
(Yes, I know that's uber-masculine. I do it on purpose.)

[rena-ko]

heh... i'd say it takes at least 10 years to speak and understand japanese fluently. if at all.

living there really helps on that thing.

and you'll need more than just vocables, kana and kanji... the historical background would be helpful as well...

in the end, understanding how a japanese thinks requires to relive an ordinary japanese life - from kindergarten to adult. i'd say this part will take from 20 years to forever to learn...

good books (guides and dictionaries), language courses (or at least having a teacher/someone to ask) and lots of training (speaking, writing, reading) will be needed.

for training in reading katakana, switch pso to japanese mode ^-^ most items are written in katakana.


good luck anyway and have fun.

[brillyfresh]

On 2003-08-25 23:18, Kent wrote:


On 2003-08-25 11:24, brillyfresh wrote:


On 2003-08-25 09:44, Kent wrote:
Kore wa amerika-go de nan desu ka.



eh, amerika-go ... you mean eigo?



*facepalms*

Hai, eigo.



Jaa, ima wakarimasu.

and furthermore, understanding kanji isn't just memorizing symbols, it's understanding why the ancient Chinese used those symbols 4,000 years ago

go to B&N and get a book called Read Japanese Today, you'll see what i'm talking about

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: brillyfresh on 2003-08-26 08:53 ]</font>

[saffaya]

I'd say 3 hours of classroom lessons per week for a scholar year would be a good start.

Digi-comi games can then be really helpful.
Having the text written on-screen and spoken at the same time is very good for learning words and kanji.

A home-stay in japan would be a good option then.

Remember that whatever your listening comprehension skill is, it doesn't translate as oral expression automatically.
You HAVE to exercise yourself at making sentences and speaking.
Listening is passive. Speaking is active. They are not equivalent.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: saffaya on 2003-08-26 10:32 ]</font>

[saffaya]

for training in reading katakana, switch pso to japanese mode ^-^ most items are written in katakana.

Yes, except things like the flight fan.
you can't believe how hard a time I had to express myself wanting one in japanese.

"er .. you see .. it's like a diska ... but it's actually not .. it's that female only weap you know .. "
Adding to the difficulty was that the flight fan isn't female only anymore in EP II ..

ah ! there you go .. forgot how it is spelled in japanese now .. I've been looking for one for so long I've even forgot its name. darn it.



"Yamete ! Oshiri ga itai !!"


ROTFL !! So true ^_^

[Inu_Ranma]

A tip:

When you want something, the most polite way to ask is

'(Thing) ga hoshii desu'

Unfortunately, my Japanese class focused only on Japanese so proper that it could literally only be used at the Imperial court or in a business deal. Ah, well.

[LamerPanda]

On 2003-08-26 05:26, Ian-KunX wrote:

"Yamete, oshiri ga itai!" *runs*



O_o Hooray for google but that's disturbing >_>


baka na gaijin

All I can recognize is insults and threats! I think I can get by with that.

[jediknight007]

Do a lot of words sound similar but with different accents with Japanese? I don't know much because I'm Chinese and speak Cantonese. With both Cantonese and Mandarin, there are many words which mean different things, simply by changing the way you say it. That makes it harder when you are trying to memorise all the words. For example, with Cantonese, for the word 'ma', it means 'mother' but also 'horse', depending on how you say it.

Learning the words itself is useless unless you are able to phrase sentences together as well. That's why I recommend that you have a companion who is fluent in Japanese or a native speaker so that you can get used to saying many different things. I think that this is as important as having a good memory for words.

I'm Chinese and obviously speak it all the time with my family. I did go to Cantonese school for a few years, every Sunday but in recent years, I have began to do quite crap and I decided to drop out last year since I thought it was a 'waste of money'. But I'm still capable of speaking and listening to Cantonese quite fluently and that is mainly because I'm with people who speak Cantonese all the time. I hope you get the idea. If you are going to enrol in a course at college/university, I would recommend that you also spend a few months in Japan as well to get used to the custom and language.

Like I said, I don't know much about Japanese but if you go to Japan, a lot of people might speak non-proper Japanese (no offence meant there). For example, say if you wanted to learn to speak English and you learn it at college or something, you might still find it hard understanding loads of English people because they will probably speak different dialects which you wouldn't understand because you have never been there before to understand their type of English. I hope that you understand what I'm saying btw! Most people nowdays don't speak proper English and say stuff like 'Sup' or 'Laters' which mean 'Hello' or 'Goodbye' respectively but if you only learnt to say 'Hello' and 'Goodbye', you would never know.

Sorry if I have repeated things others might have already mentioned. I couldn't be bothered to read through the whole thread that's all.

[Inu_Ranma]

One of the very nice things about Japanese (ie: easy to learn) is the lack of the myriad inflections that make Chinese languages so damn hard to learn for Americans. THe pronunciation for Japanese is very, very simple.
Five vowel sounds: Ah-Ee-Oo-Eh-Oh. A syllable can only end in 'n' or an open vowel, and certain syllables, like 'Du,' 'Wu' and 'Weh,' 'Yeh,' 'Yu,' and 'Yi,' etc. can not happen at all. The sentence structure is also very user friendly, because with correct particle placement, any sentence can be said with the same words in any number of different ways.

[Ninpo_Tamashii]

you have got to remember, that you cannot learn japanese, and speak japanese like you are speaking english. The train of thought that is used to make sentences is totally diffrent. You have to pay even closer attention to Contex, becuase one word in japanese can mean sooo much, its all about the contex which changes the meaning. Listening for key words like "wa" and what its tied to make japanese potentially very lazy in comparison to how We speak english. IT seems weird at first becuase english is honestly a very technical language and we're used to it without even relizing it until we try to learn another language and see less stress on technicality. The best i can say is when you start to learn it, forget you even know english -if that makes sense- and Try not to compare it to anything. It may be hard to swallow your pride and do it, but get little kids books, kindergarden books, and work your way up from there. Once you learn the Hiragana and katakana charts start learning hwo to convert and read it in romanji to help you look up the words and meanings, and then learn to omit the romanji and just read and match words you see in the kids books. This will help you a bit too, but honestly the best way is finding someone or someplace wehre there's people who speak the language so you can ask them questions. Mah ten cents

[Nai_Calus]

On 2003-08-26 14:51, Inu_Ranma wrote:
One of the very nice things about Japanese (ie: easy to learn) is the lack of the myriad inflections that make Chinese languages so damn hard to learn for Americans. THe pronunciation for Japanese is very, very simple.
Five vowel sounds: Ah-Ee-Oo-Eh-Oh. A syllable can only end in 'n' or an open vowel, and certain syllables, like 'Du,' 'Wu' and 'Weh,' 'Yeh,' 'Yu,' and 'Yi,' etc. can not happen at all. The sentence structure is also very user friendly, because with correct particle placement, any sentence can be said with the same words in any number of different ways.



Actually, there is a 'yu'. Yuki, yuuki, chikyuu... Lots of words use it.
'We' and 'Wi' used to exist too, but they don't anymore. I'm so pathetic I actually know the symbols for them. Then again, I'm the psychotic freak who taught myself how to recognise half the hirigana with a basic knowledge of how it works and the character introduction page of a Sailor Moon manga. >_>;;; "Let's see... This symbol that looks like a 3 with a curly bit at the bottom occurs in both 'Hotaru' and 'Haruka', at the end and middle positions... Must be read as 'ru'. I'm sad, yes. X_x;

Try reading manga. If it has furigana(Small kana placed next to/above kanji that gives the reading), that can help you a bit... Especially since you start noticing after a bit that in certain contexts, x kanji is read one way, and in another context it's pronounced an entirely different way... I find that I've learned most of the vocabulary and phrases I know from listening to music, too, and finding translations... Little by little it's seeped into my conciousness(Subtitled anime helps too), so I actually understand quite a bit despite never having actively studied anything about it. Then again, I tend to learn by either doing or osmosis, so... *shrug*

[Inu_Ranma]

Woops!! I meant 'Wu'
That's what I get for not sleeping, not that I have any control over it. *snarl*

[Nazo]

I spent 6 yrs of Japanese. Ask me pretty much anything, except cuss words. (yeh, I know, but hey, u dun want to speak like that in front of a Japanese person)