Section ID concerning C-Mode?

[rena-ko]

the ID of the creator determining the found weapon's class. so far so good.

leads me to some questions:

1:
is there a special chart anywhere or is it the same as what the IDs force to drop in normal game?

2:
i'm planning on creating a c-mode FOnl. which section ID would be the most useful (for which stage).
right now i settled to a bluefull name. good? bad? mediocre choice?
i heard whitill would be pretty good for most stages.


thanks in advance

[YujiNaka]

Dont care about ID. Thats my hint for you.

[rena-ko]

not very helpful, but well, thanks...

anyone else? no?

then i'll close this topic officially, i'll create her during the weekend and i'll not have the chance to look for answers before monday. so thanks anyway.

[YujiNaka]

ID doesnt matter for Challenge Mode. Maps are completly random. Not only the enemies, also the stuff.
TA player always tried to find out how IDs working in Cmode. The result is... they do nothing.

[Valleo]

I dont know anything about this really, but Ive been told that Skyly and Pinkal are good ID's for the teams creator to have.

When Ive played with Vulpes Mundi, he sometimes asks us to enter the game in a certain order based on ID's, and we generally get good maps as far as enemies go (I.E. not alot of Garanz, Hildes, ect). And whenever he says "This is gonna suck" because Ive got a Purplenum, it usually does. I dont know if he bases this on research or just past experience. As far as item drops, it seems pretty widely accepted that its pretty random, as its usually weapon percents that make a good weapon in C mode. But again, I dont know anything more than that.

[Sheik1]

from my experiance...map is ALMOST random but some IDs especially will alomst always generate a bad map.

IDs are mostly based for drops. Some IDs get better weapons than others. I do not know what IDs create what drops.

Usually if I am playing TA we will try again and again for a better map, but rotate who creates the team and what order we join in to find a good map.

This is something that most players will not me patient enough to do...finding maps. This is not a good idea to start doing with new players...it does not seem to excite many as srank is what they want...not good map...clear only.

[rena-ko]

well, i ignored the id, picked a name i liked and got Yellowboze. (see sig)
Its said to be a mediocre/good choice, since there's no meseta in challenge mode.

so far i heard, that skyly, purplenum and whitill are quite good IDs.

thanks for your concern > all

[Jazhara]

ID affects two things:

1. Type of item that can be found.

2. Types of enemy in a quest, e.g. Bluefull Caves = more Nanos.

Point 2 is not 100% confirmed or detailed anywhere.

Oran is a good C-Mode ID.

[Valleo]

Someone should make a guide for C mode section ID's .... yeah that right! Im looking at you! Do it... *shakes fist*

[Capricornus]

On 2003-08-27 05:52, rena-ko wrote:
the ID of the creator determining the found weapon's class. so far so good.

leads me to some questions:

1:
is there a special chart anywhere or is it the same as what the IDs force to drop in normal game?

2:
i'm planning on creating a c-mode FOnl. which section ID would be the most useful (for which stage).
right now i settled to a bluefull name. good? bad? mediocre choice?
i heard whitill would be pretty good for most stages.


thanks in advance


The ID of the map creator doesnt affect at all the map you will get, its just luck.
ID does affect the type of weapons you find though.
I know there are theories about having 2 the same IDs in one game generating a bad map, but this is not proven at all !!
I did get really good maps already with 3 redrias in it. The order of entering doesnt affect the map either.
If somebody can prove otherwise, I would most certainly be glad to hear his(or her) explanation for that...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Capricornus on 2003-09-05 08:46 ]</font>

[Jazhara]

Hannya right? Think I was with you when you got your first GC S-Rank.

Personally I say go with Oran - finds Swords (and sabers), daggers, and wands.

[rena-ko]

first was Lorelei, then came Kahimi and Kuro. After that as fourth, Hannya. yes i remember you, was nice playing with you ^-^

for the theory that two identical IDs entering the game right after each other trigger a bad map... well, i think thats nonsense.
and so far i also think, the number of waves is pure chance. sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you dont...

but then again, there is a grain of truth in every rumor...

[Jazhara]

- ID definitely does not affect the number of enemies or waves in a map. This is 100% random.

- It definitely does affect the types of weapons that drop - see the usual section ID guides for this info.

Of the two rumours:


1. 2 same IDs in one map = Bad map.

I have seen so many random results of this over the last couple years, and hundreds of hours of C-Mode, I personally think this one is BS. Many TA players do believe it though.



2. ID affects the TYPE of enemy in a map.

I believe this one. Try Bluefull Caves (C2-C4) - usually Nano Dragon city. That's not to say all enemies are Nanos, just you will get more Nanos under Bluefull than normal.

It's not confirmed, one day I will get round to a full experiment with actual proof. Will be a long time after Ep.II C-Mode TA is finished with though, PSO may well be dead before I can be bothered to waste an entire weekend doing it. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[rena-ko]

heh ^-^ we could make a research one day.

a friend and i once made one very interesting research about damage cancel (techs cancel each other as well btw, all damage does).

[Raziel_Kai]

Rena-ko! Don't choose Purplenum!
My ID sucks badly for Cmode.
I've opened plenty of offline and online cmode games and the drops are really not that great.

[rena-ko]

*laughs*

thanks for mention that ^-^

btw... I created Chiyo shortly after posting the second time in this tread. she's yellowboze (so-so, not bad i got said) and by now bu-ei.

[Sheik1]

okok, I think I will add my two cents in now...

I have noticed that as Whitill I can generate some really nice C1 and C5 maps that are great for TA play. But, if I generate a bad map, it is usually very very bad....hetare map....devil map....whatever everyone calls it.

As for wep drops...they are random but some IDs will get drops for specific character classes. I play TA and in TA FOs do not need weps. They do nearly all of the damage in C1-C6....so...wep drops are not a problem until C7-C9.

[Capricornus]

On 2003-09-16 00:40, Sheik1 wrote:
okok, I think I will add my two cents in now...

I have noticed that as Whitill I can generate some really nice C1 and C5 maps that are great for TA play. But, if I generate a bad map, it is usually very very bad....hetare map....devil map....whatever everyone calls it.

As for wep drops...they are random but some IDs will get drops for specific character classes. I play TA and in TA FOs do not need weps. They do nearly all of the damage in C1-C6....so...wep drops are not a problem until C7-C9.


Plz keep your 2 cents...

Section ID doesnt affect the map at all.
I played the same map with the same ID (Redria which was supposed to be a bad ID for map generation)20+ times with my friends to test it out (C1 off the record)
Yes some maps were bad (really bad, lol), but I did generate an awesome map after 20+ tries (1 wave each room) thus resulting in a 8- time.
Section ID affects the weapons found, thats all.
Regarding section ID generating a certain type of enemy, this still gets a question mark, although I dont tend to believe it either.

[starhealer]

See, I beg to differ. I think that ID at least plays a role in the types of enemies generated in C-Mode. Case in point, never make a C1 game with a Pinkal.

I've done dozens of runs with my Pinkal and every single time, the map is swamped with Hildebears and Monests. I'm talking...three to four Hildebears a room. It makes for an awfully bad time.

Oran is nice for items, though. At least it is if you're a Hunter. I find that Forces have to pray for a Barta under that ID, though...

I've never had a bad time in a Redria game, though. And Purplenum Ruins maps tend to be painless.

[Capricornus]

On 2003-09-18 16:39, starhealer wrote:
See, I beg to differ. I think that ID at least plays a role in the types of enemies generated in C-Mode. Case in point, never make a C1 game with a Pinkal.

I've done dozens of runs with my Pinkal and every single time, the map is swamped with Hildebears and Monests. I'm talking...three to four Hildebears a room. It makes for an awfully bad time.

Oran is nice for items, though. At least it is if you're a Hunter. I find that Forces have to pray for a Barta under that ID, though...

I've never had a bad time in a Redria game, though. And Purplenum Ruins maps tend to be painless.


Hmmm I was really curious about testing this one out, so thats what I did (I hav all 10 IDs)
I did some TA runs (15+) for C1 with my Pinkal (with a fixed team)
True, there were again awful maps (like a Redria does generate too) but I managed to generate a 9- map with a Hildebear-less map.
Hildebears also appeared a lot on my Redria run, so for now I still conclude the enemy appearance according to ID still to be random, untill really proven otherwise...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Capricornus on 2003-09-23 06:47 ]</font>

[rena-ko]

hm... screams for a big research...

2 players, 10x10x10 tries (1st ID, 2nd ID, 10 tries for average) for each stage, stages C1, C3, C6 and C8... 4000 tries in total...

i have 8 IDs, could generate the two missing ones on another memcard...

the more participate, the sooner were done.

...
then again, everyone (including myself really soon) will be missing the required time to do so, i guess.

[rena-ko]

*laughs*

seems like that scared away everyone else ...

[Sheik1]

Personally, I will never make a TA C4 or C6 room...why??? C4 is ALWAYS 26 minutes or greater and C6 is ALWAYS 30 minutes or even 40 minutes. I don't know for sure if ID does much, but it seems that it effects something, somehow. Some stages I can not make good maps in...from the many I have made, I have never seen a good one.

Most of the time I have generated some good C2 and C5 maps, but very icky C1 map I made last night. It was the worst thing in the world...if there is such a thing.

--Sheik

[rena-ko]

you mean... with kali* ? whitill?

i once managed a 30"00 c6 run ^-^ was really impressed by the smothness. pure luck i guess.

hm...
i still think we (like in all challenge players who want to know for sure) should start such a research. getting together on one server and start one game after another might be fun as well. TA challenge night *laughs*

[Capricornus]

On 2003-10-06 04:33, rena-ko wrote:
you mean... with kali* ? whitill?

i once managed a 30"00 c6 run ^-^ was really impressed by the smothness. pure luck i guess.

hm...
i still think we (like in all challenge players who want to know for sure) should start such a research. getting together on one server and start one game after another might be fun as well. TA challenge night *laughs*


Yes, a research might be nice, but the reason I wont join it is because I allready gave my share to it.
I always play TA with the same 2 people (the fourth varies always depending on which friend is on). So we allways play with 3 fixed IDs and play all maps (from 1 to 9). We always take turns in creating maps and rarely generate good maps, but very occasionally a good one pops out. This happens to my ID sometimes or the ones from my friends (Greenill and Skyly), which still helps me to conclude that the map generation is still random.
I wish you good luck on your research though Rena, and Im curious about the results. (I'm not excluding that I might be wrong http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[rena-ko]

heh, first off, thanks

but then again, i wont start hosting something like that until i get some willing co-researchers...

for a start, everyone could write down some facts they allready researched - ID in joining order, stage and how you would rank the resulting maps (+ time you got)... school ranks would be fitting. F up to A, maybe a TA for an excellent map.

to be honest, i'll have to start to do this as well...

you could post here, or mail me your results (spam gets automatically filtered out so save your time).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2003-10-07 04:35 ]</font>

[Sheik1]

On 2003-10-06 04:33, rena-ko wrote:

hm...
i still think we (like in all challenge players who want to know for sure) should start such a research. getting together on one server and start one game after another might be fun as well. TA challenge night *laughs*


Well, if I have a free weekend or day I would be willing to try something. some IDs just don't work for TA as I have found. Sometimes I am starting to think that map generatation is not to the sectionID but somehow to the the player itself. I generated a C9 35- map which is nice, but not TA. Too much of a normal time, but it was played TA style so maybe 33- if repeated. I am aiming for a under 30- time for C9. Hopefully soon I will try again for a TA9 soon.

I would not mind trying that experiment with C6,7,8...becuase those are my worst now..heh. All 35 minutes or greater...how icky. Well, see ya around.

Hmmmm...a TA challenge night...might be interesting but not players I know would be willing to do that and I am not sure I would even try to ask...besides, TA anytime in Alcyone...just make a room. Ok, take that back, most of the time when gd players are on.

--Sheik

[rena-ko]

yeah i know... like the name goes... TA is for times, not for research... hm...

but then again, if everyone collects data on his/her own, i'll be willing to compile that data later on.

i'll of course research myself everytime i get online for some challenge...
(but as i mentioned some months ago / some posts above, my time to 'waste' on games is rather limited these days...)

i think its not that tricky to write down the IDs of everyone who entered (and in the entering order) and rate the map later on.

once i get enough data i'll post the results on my page and mention them here.

[Capricornus]

Sometimes I am starting to think that map generatation is not to the sectionID but somehow to the the player itself.

Sounds rather strange, but now that you mention it.
There is that one player (Osiris) I also play often with, who just always generates a bad map (not that his ID is supposed to be bad (skyly), because I had some pretty nice skyly map generated already by other players and myself on a random basis, but this player just always generates awfull maps) (not normal maps, but plain awfull maps, and this always happens, I mean always, when he creates)
On the other hand, there is that one JP player <<HIRA>>, who only plays with JP players (but occasionally he lets me join) and each time I team up with him we get god maps (god maps = best maps you can imagine, like 1 wave or 2 max in each room) I joined him like 4+ times and the map generation was always a god-map)
Is this all pure random or not, I still dont know and I still want to believe that the map generation is random, but...
That Osiris player gets always bad maps, whatever other section ID he takes, and that <<HIRA>> player, I remember having him another ID the second time I played with him, still he generated a god-map.
Maybe its all based on the number of your guild card (pure speculation)

[rena-ko]

well, first 8 data packages collected...

its fun to try for TA, since TA players are aiming at times that a humble traditional cmode player like i'd call myself wouldnt even dare to dream of.

for example, we tried C8 TA on EU server (less lag because we all/most of us were from the EU), tried three times to get a nice map, recreating. we found one with 1-2 waves in the first three rooms, retried that one until we got enough weapons for the shortcut - on the ... fourth try we got 5 weapons (4 are needed) and went for it.

the whole stage was mostly 1-2 waves, only one or two rooms had more and costed some time. lots of delsabers as well and only blades ... (purple dagger type, cant say for sure right now). HUcl, HUcl, HUct and FOnl.

what to say. they called it bad map, but it gets an A rating from me (no TA rating this time, because they didnt like it). 28"51 is not bad for C8 i guess.

once i have around at least... lets say 30 datasets i'll compile it into a table etc.

for all who want to donate some datasets, here's what i need:
-IDs (or complete names - dont forget spaces) of all players in the order they entered.
-rating of the map (with short notes like... overall wave count and if good or bad weapondrops - use school notes - F-A and TA for a very good TA-map)
-number of retries of same map and of course the time if finished.
-may as well add some notes about the style - TA, clear, with newbies around or not...

please send your data in as complete as possible.
please send good and bad results (dont filter).

thank you very much for helping

[KingChaos]

id have to say yellowboze

[Capricornus]

On 2003-10-16 12:04, FOnewm_Chaos wrote:
id have to say yellowboze


Yellowboze best ID?
Might wanna share your experience why you state this?

[Capricornus]

Check pm Rena http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[rena-ko]

thanks ^-^ got your data, i'll implement it during the day...

i still need way more complete data sets to get some average info about it.

so far:
30+ datasets,
2 contributors (capricornus and me).

way to go.
please keep submitting > everyone

thank you very much

[haruna]

Okay, here's my experiences:

When it comes to maps, they can start sucky and gradually get better, as well as vice versa.
In the end, it all evens out but I personally prefer maps to suck in the beginning and get better. I'll have more mates but I probably won't have very good weapons/armor. Or vice versa.

Redrias find a good amount of armor.
Purplenums tend to find weapons with extra attacks.
Whitills seem to get fairly balanced drops(ie, something for everyone.)
Skyly drops good HU weapons.

Greenil finds a fair number of rare monsters outside of c-mode. The 4-5 times I've created maps with Tsubame(Greenil) she's had Al Rappies in C1 and Nar Lillies in C2, 3.
When I went hunting for Hallo Rappies, I found them when I made the map with Tsubame.

[rena-ko]

very interesting, thank you - i'll keep that in mind (like in copy and paste) for when i work at the raw info.

[AxemPunanny]

From my experience, Skyly's seem to be the most balanced of all the ids; i.e. having a better chance of getting a good map and with solid weapons.

As far as Yellowbozes... from my experience... YB games tend to yield more spawns of monsters. That doesn't mean that it would be a bad map tho.

But I'd like to emphasize that a good map is random, no matter what ID. There will be good rooms or bad rooms. You just gotta roll with it. Drops are pretty random as well, but unlike for maps, sect. IDs actually have more influence on the type of weapons that drop.

An interesting thing I'm noticing, and I'm starting to be convinced that it may be the case, is that the faster you kill a spawned group, the less likely another spawn will occur. It's almost like the CPU is timing the way the team kills a group. I.E. if you kill the first spawn under an allotted time (dependant on the numbers and types of monsters spawned, and the type of team), there won't be another spawn, and that the CPU calculates this. And no, I can't confirm this, but it's a strong theory for me. Even if it's not true, I believe if the team just concentrates on KILLING (as fast and efficient as possible) then the map won't yield as many monsters or at least it won't seem like there is alot of monsters. Alot of ppl tend to complain about maps, when they could just focus their energy on actually killing, and playing well, no matter what spawns.

[haruna]

Interesting theory-RE: killing faster reduces spawns.

I was TAing the other day and we just got unlucky in C5 and got stuck with a "hell room" where there were just tons of spawns. They were quickly killed off but still, there were so many waves! AUGH!!!!
3 minutes, wasted.
I still got under 24 min for C5 which made me happy but that hell room drove everyone nuts.

But you do raise a fascinating thing to explore, Axem-namely, how/when are the maps determined?

We know that what exactly enemies are won't be determined until you enter the room. This is evidenced by a game glitch exploit method called "piping." Namely, making/taking telepipes until a normal monster turns rare.

For piping outside of quests, I don't know if monster counts in normal mode play are effected. People tend to do this pipe trick in quests with pre-determined enemy counts.

[rena-ko]

so far following facts make the most sense for me:
-drops get randomized the millisecond when the enemy gets killed.
proof: redoing maps in cmode gives other items with same waves.
-rare enemies get randomized when enemies spawn. no spawn, no lost chance that this would have been a rare monster in the first way.
proof: piping
-cmode waves get determined when entering an area.
proof: redoing the same map has the same waves, but rare monsters may occur.
-cmode: IDs only determine what items get dropped. everything else is random.
proof: i am to prove this theory with my little study.

please keep on discussing ^-^

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2003-11-15 13:15 ]</font>

[haruna]

I was keeping a c-mode diary listing Maps/IDs/Classes and what I thought of the map overall.

Then I started doing so many runs that my head began to spin.

I guess here's how I'd classify a map. It would help if you had a friend sit beside you and write/type as you dictate so you can concentrate on the challenge.

Here's a sample uberdetailed c-mode write up.
Date:
Time(Include beats):
Location:
Party Members:
Riese(FOml)Purplenum*(made the map)
Haruna (FOnl)Whitill
Tsubame(HUcl)Greenil
Itachi(HUcl)Veridia

Wave Record(relevant for rooms that must be cleared):
Area 1
--Room 1: 2*had monests! =(
--Room 2: 1
--Room 3(after warp): 1*small wave

If you're really crazy, make note of all the items. this is easy in earlier stages where most likely everyone carries everything and drops it at the end.

Box drops are semi-random as well. In C2, there is a secret room guarenteed to have 3 barries. Sometimes it's a Core Shield, Shield and Barrier. Other times it's 3 ordinary shields. You get the idea.

[rena-ko]

thats what i try to do... just not that detailed... i just need anyone who sends in data to rank their game - maybe team and map seperately.
as well, whats important is if its a TA game or not. the rating depends on that.

heh, either a secretary or taping it all. hm...

actually i think its pure random and IDs dont do anything more than set the dropable items...

[Raziel_Kai]

I could give you some help with offline Cmode, rena-ko.
Just let me know what exactly do you need to jot down and I'll PM it to you.

I know offline ain't the same as the online game, but still, anything to help you out, just let me know.

[rena-ko]

actually offline and online dont matter.

for info, i need nothing but full sets. the more info about a game the merrier.

thanks in advance.

[Raziel_Kai]

I could say on haruna's behalf that it's kinda true on Purplenum yielding items with specials (unfortunately I never get past the really sucky stuff like a 25%hit Dim cane or repeated 0%s hold/fire/ice/etc melee weapons, heheh).

Playing Oran many times offline has given us the good map towards a horrible map or vice versa scenario when redoing.

On the kill-as-fast-as-possible so there won't be as many spawns in a room, I'll have to check on that.
Sometimes we end up with a Dubchic, which could verily take forever, and we luck out, being the only thing that spawned at all in the room.
Sometimes we get a couple of Boomas, a Rappy and perhaps a Gobooma, we kill them where they stand/spawn/drop down/pop up and we end up with the horrible Asteroids scenario = almost endless spawning.

I'll try to do a much better study this next weekend, since it's kinda hard to make my pals come over to play offline since they're doing their finals this week.

[haruna]

I think the spawns are also pre-determined.

A way to test that would be to get a map, re-do it and do a simple wave check.
If you get the same wave count for several rooms, I think it is safe to say that even the number of waves gets pre-generated at the start of the map.

Another thing I've noticed is what I'll call "map curvs."

If you were to plot out the # of waves in each room that has to be cleared, what would the graph look like?
Would it be a nice, level curve or have a lot of extremes?
Is the over all trend negative or positive?
Do I sound like I should be on wallstreet predicting stock prices or what?

[AxemPunanny]

On 2003-11-17 18:10, haruna wrote:
I think the spawns are also pre-determined.

A way to test that would be to get a map, re-do it and do a simple wave check.
If you get the same wave count for several rooms, I think it is safe to say that even the number of waves gets pre-generated at the start of the map.

Another thing I've noticed is what I'll call "map curvs."

If you were to plot out the # of waves in each room that has to be cleared, what would the graph look like?
Would it be a nice, level curve or have a lot of extremes?
Is the over all trend negative or positive?
Do I sound like I should be on wallstreet predicting stock prices or what?



I'm not sure if they're pre-determined, but if you redo a map, it will turn out the same (until you quit).

There you go haruna, trying to be all mathematically. Next you want us to determine the slope, the tangent, or the probability of an evil shark spawning in area 15 in room 7 with coordinates 12,5 (due tomorrow).

[Mosaik]

As to how you generate "nice maps" no one really knows. However there are techniques genkai players use to determine if a map is worth playing. I am rather inexperienced at the genkai world but here are my observations:

Certain rooms will always have a specific number of waves attached to it. Usually this number amounts to a single wave so when you are in this room, just get ready right away. As to how you tell, just do a complete run of a stage at least 8 times and keep track of how many waves you run into in each room.

Another thing are what I call common problem rooms. In other words, rooms with tons of monster waves. Every stage tends to have one or more of these kinds of rooms. You know a map is real good if these rooms have 1-3 waves. Often Japanese players will start flashing happy faces or say Aha, nice, etc. upon getting past a problem room in relatively little time. Once again, experience will tell you where these rooms are.

Monster amount is also something one needs to pay attention to. You can have a slightly high number of waves as long as these waves consist of monsters you can kill in 5 seconds.

Finally once you determine the good map, then comes the final step, genkai play.

Genkai play is more than getting a few uber weapons by the first few rooms. Genaki play involves memorizes every single spawn location and spawn wave counts per room. This is how they kill in the most efficient way as possible, yielding disgusting times. I participated once in a genkai c2. On a single run through we clocked about 22:45 by the end of the map. We died at the last room and redid the stage knowing spawn counts and spawn locations. This knowledge alone possessed by expert players allowed my team with no special weapons finished the stage with 20:18.

Are you that hardcore? That is up to you to decide.

Bacchus

[YujiNaka]

I think Genkai Play is fun if you dont play it too much. To play a map over and over again, be the perfect team, know the waves and get the best possible time is fun (except someone get d/c...).

[rena-ko]

really interesting read but actually... isnt this way off topic by now? ^_^;

[rena-ko]

seeing as how i lack time and also interest by now...
seeing as there are other ways to prove it without researching it...
seeing as noone is interested to participate (despite you, capricornus, once again, thank you very much for your effort)...
seeing as proving this doesnt really matter anyway...

...i hereby cancel my research.

who cares.
its like its said. IDs only affect the drops, everything else is random.

this topic may now be closed imho.

[Capricornus]

On 2003-11-26 09:25, rena-ko wrote:
seeing as how i lack time and also interest by now...
seeing as there are other ways to prove it without researching it...
seeing as noone is interested to participate (despite you, capricornus, once again, thank you very much for your effort)...
seeing as proving this doesnt really matter anyway...

...i hereby cancel my research.

who cares.
its like its said. IDs only affect the drops, everything else is random.

this topic may now be closed imho.

Hehe, Im glad to see you finally joined the club of 'non believers the section ID affects the map generation' Rena.
Welcome welcome http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_kuddel.gif

[rena-ko]

oh, i always questioned the whole idea. i wanted to prove it wrong, not right ^_~

but i simply dont see any use for a timeconsuming research (anymore) since people believe "stuff that sounds intelligent from people that sound intelligent" anyway.