Heaven Punisher odds?

[AlphaDoom]

I was just wondering that I know the real agito is 1 to 21 of finding it but does any1 know what the Heaven Punisher is or can you tell us if it's rarer or easier to find then the agito?

[Soukosa]

Harder. If you're going after a 'torr to get it, you could easily go through over twice as many of them as you would with the Agito.

[DeadBunneh]

1/205 for a Heaven's Punisher from a Hildetorr, enjoy.

[Soukosa]

On 2003-09-11 10:33, DeadBunneh wrote:
1/205 for a Heaven's Punisher from a Hildetorr, enjoy.

I don't know where that number came from, but it's incorrect.

[AlphaDoom]

I play offline anyway so this might take some time.

[neko-chan]

On 2003-09-11 10:45, Sounomi wrote:


On 2003-09-11 10:33, DeadBunneh wrote:
1/205 for a Heaven's Punisher from a Hildetorr, enjoy.

I don't know where that number came from, but it's incorrect.

Hey: now you're hurting my nerves, and I don't think I'm alone here.

Please, use common sense: if you have any solid information about the item drops, post it already! If you don't (or if you haven't yet completed the misterious chart you claim to be workin on) please stop, repeat, STOP saying that others' information aren't correct.

Be positive: post facts. If not, shut up until you'll be able to be positive.

Thanks. ^_^

[VioletSkye]

On 2003-09-11 10:53, neko-chan wrote:


On 2003-09-11 10:45, Sounomi wrote:


On 2003-09-11 10:33, DeadBunneh wrote:
1/205 for a Heaven's Punisher from a Hildetorr, enjoy.

I don't know where that number came from, but it's incorrect.

Hey: now you're hurting my nerves, and I don't think I'm alone here.

Please, use common sense: if you have any solid information about the item drops, post it already! If you don't (or if you haven't yet completed the misterious chart you claim to be workin on) please stop, repeat, STOP saying that others' information aren't correct.

Be positive: post facts. If not, shut up until you'll be able to be positive.

Thanks. ^_^


You need to understand that Sounami is not trying to hurt anyone. She DOES HAVE the ACTUAL GAME files for the drops, so she CAN SAFELY SAY if someone figures are incorrect. The fact that she points out an inaccuracy is not being negative. Facts are facts, and simply being "positive" does not mean negating those facts. Charts take quite awhile to finalize. You've obviously never looked at those fiels so you have no idea what a Herculean task it can be to sort it all out. She is not getting paid to do this, but would like to share her info with others when it is ready. So why don't YOU be POSITIVE and APPRECIATIVE of the fact that she is spending her OWN TIME to present this to people.

In fact to end this once and for all, here is a link that ANYONE can download the actual XBox ITEMRT.GSL file for themselves. So I would recommend at least looking at it before piping up about her facts not being correct.

http://www.angelfire.com/alt/rlc/itemrt.gsl



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2003-09-11 11:13 ]</font>

[Zarana]

Incidentally, these are the same "in game files" that the 1/205 originally came from. Although I'm willing to believe the website that posted it made a typo, I still think it's nothing less than ridiculous to discount it without giving actual odds of your own.

[neko-chan]

On 2003-09-11 11:05, VioletSkye wrote:
So I would recommend at least looking at it before piping up about her facts not being correct.

Anti-depression pills didn't make effect today, uh?

[neko-chan]

On 2003-09-11 11:30, Zarana wrote:
I still think it's nothing less than ridiculous to discount it without giving actual odds of your own.

Yeah, thanks Zarana, God bless you! ^_^

[VioletSkye]

On 2003-09-11 11:31, neko-chan wrote:


On 2003-09-11 11:05, VioletSkye wrote:
So I would recommend at least looking at it before piping up about her facts not being correct.

Anti-depression pills didn't make effect today, uh?


Hmmm. good rebuttal. You obviously had nothing substantial to say which I could have guessed. But if you feel that "trying" to take a shot at me helps make your point (whatever that may be), then more power to you http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

BTW not contributing to your argument and making a stupid little personal remark just makes you look bad, not me.

I almost forgot. Did you look at the file Neko? I would love to hear your thoughts on the information it contains.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2003-09-11 11:36 ]</font>

[Soukosa]

On 2003-09-11 11:30, Zarana wrote:
Incidentally, these are the same "in game files" that the 1/205 originally came from. Although I'm willing to believe the website that posted it made a typo, I still think it's nothing less than ridiculous to discount it without giving actual odds of your own.


There are no numbers like that listed in the data files.

[VioletSkye]

On 2003-09-11 11:36, Sounomi wrote:


On 2003-09-11 11:30, Zarana wrote:
Incidentally, these are the same "in game files" that the 1/205 originally came from. Although I'm willing to believe the website that posted it made a typo, I still think it's nothing less than ridiculous to discount it without giving actual odds of your own.


There are no numbers like that listed in the data files.


Indeed there aren't. Nice try though Zarana. Seriously, can you give me an explanation as to why you refuse to look at the info posted? You say you want proof, I OFFER PROOF, and you refuse to comment on it or even look at it yourself.

[Zarana]

Because these files are still "unconverted." I'm not sure of the actual math, but the real numbers are found by taking the 50/50 rare item rate of a rare enemy and working from there.

I'm 100% sure they're the same basic numbers. So you can either do the math yourself or trust me, but the point is, I want you to give actual odds before jumping down someone's throat about it being false.

I'm sorry, but "it's wrong, I have charts" doesn't do much for me. If you actually understand the rarity levels on these charts, give me odds of your own.

[neko-chan]

On 2003-09-11 11:33, VioletSkye wrote:
You obviously had nothing substantial to say which I could have guessed.

OK. We meet each other on the street.
Me: Hey! It's a fact that your favourite panckaes dressing is your own shit!
You: how you dare!
Me: I know, it's a fact.
You: how could you know that?
Me: I just know that.
You: any proof?
Me: I don't need proofs. I just know that as a fact.

If you don't get it... well, I can't help you.

[VioletSkye]

On 2003-09-11 11:41, Zarana wrote:
Because these files are still "unconverted." I'm not sure of the actual math, but the real numbers are found by taking the 50/50 rare item rate of a rare enemy and working from there.

I'm 100% sure they're the same basic numbers. So you can either do the math yourself or trust me, but the point is, I want you to give actual odds before jumping down someone's throat about it being false.

I'm sorry, but "it's wrong, I have charts" doesn't do much for me. If you actually understand the rarity levels on these charts, give me odds of your own.


Why would we trust you? You have presented NO FACTS. You say that:

"I'm sorry, but "it's wrong, I have charts" doesn't do much for me."

Well what is your argument supposed to do for US? We at least offer proof, you offer nothing. Look at the file yourself Zarana.

[Ketchup345]

Umm, Violet, what do you have to use to open the link you posted?

[Zarana]

I don't have to argue a single thing. In my very first post, I said that the 1/205 could very well be a typo. If you can remember so far back, please tell me how you can interpret that as me supporting it 100%. ... Yes, that's right, you can't.

Anyway, it's clear that you can't find actual odds from this chart of yours. Otherwise instead of just saying it was wrong you would have given the "right" version. Saying "Well, the percentage in this chart doesn't look like 1/205 to me" will prove your case to roughly no one. Now if you want to say it's false, by all means post the real numbers. If you can't, then please be quiet about how you're such an expert on the topic. It's not very becoming of someone who's so dead-set on not answering my one simple question.

If not 1/205, how rare is the Heaven Punisher? And no, posting a link to charts won't work, I want numbers. Otherwise you had better stop professing your authority on the matter, because if you can't give the person who posted this topic "real" numbers for the Heaven Punisher, how can you ever expect to know how rare something like a Psycho Wand is?

[VioletSkye]

On 2003-09-11 11:50, Ketchup345 wrote:
Umm, Violet, what do you have to use to open the link you posted?


Any hex editting program will open the file for you. I use UltraEdit 32, but there are free and shareware programs also. I think Hex Workshop or WinHex is free. Try looking at either http://www.tucows.com or http://www.zdnet.com (in the downloads section I think)

[VioletSkye]

On 2003-09-11 11:54, Zarana wrote:
I don't have to argue a single thing. In my very first post, I said that the 1/205 could very well be a typo. If you can remember so far back, please tell me how you can interpret that as me supporting it 100%. ... Yes, that's right, you can't.

Anyway, it's clear that you can't find actual odds from this chart of yours. Otherwise instead of just saying it was wrong you would have given the "right" version. Saying "Well, the percentage in this chart doesn't look like 1/205 to me" will prove your case to roughly no one. Now if you want to say it's false, by all means post the real numbers. If you can't, then please be quiet about how you're such an expert on the topic. It's not very becoming of someone who's so dead-set on not answering my one simple question.

If not 1/205, how rare is the Heaven Punisher? And no, posting a link to charts won't work, I want numbers. Otherwise you had better stop professing your authority on the matter, because if you can't give the person who posted this topic "real" numbers for the Heaven Punisher, how can you ever expect to know how rare something like a Psycho Wand is?


OMG I can't believe the depths of your ignorance. YOU are the one who WON'T answer the question. I asked you what your thoughts on the file are. You NEVER answered. You are the one who claims to be an authority and yet you pull numbers out of the air with nothing to back them up. I'm at work at the moment Zarana. Yes some of us do that for a living so I can't give you a number for a drop. You also don't seem to understand how complex the drop system is. As she has said, when Sounami feels that here charts are finalized she will share them, although at this point, if it were me, I wouldn't just because so many people act like pricks. When the charts are done, you can check them against the file yourself and SEE THAT THEY ARE CORRECT.

[Zarana]

Okay, it's clear you don't stand half a chance against me in a real argument, so I think I'll just quit trying. Let me look over your post, though, for more hilarious quotes. Here's another list for you.

1. I've answered your question. It just wasn't what you want to hear. But here I go again. "Suromimi is not the only one who has this information, and I have already seen it." Okay? I'm sorry if this isn't the Holy Grail of PSO item findings, but there are plenty of other places I can go that have the rarity down to a hundred thousandth of a percent.

2. Making an unfounded personal attack about how I'm not at work right now is not only a logical fallacy, it makes you look like you're on the defensive. But I guess if you're such an expert on advice, tell me this. With a class this afternoon, how am I supposed to also be working? Haha.

3. It's not complex, it's a percentage system written in hex. And yes, that rhymes. Complex, hex, I am aware that that rhymes. So before you use the fact that I'm rhyming as another futile attempt to feign power in this argument (which, trust me, you haven't had from the start) then don't even bother. The Japanese site I've linked you to that you won't even consider has taken the hex and turned it into actual percents. So the rarity of, say, a Psycho Wand boils down to about .000193765%, okay? (Note, thos are not the actual numbers, but you get the picture)

As hard as it is to believe, there are people out there who have been able to take this information and turn it into actual numbers. And when you're finally able to do the same, not only do I think you'll come up with the same odds I've seen elsewhere, I know it. So don't tell me that the rarity of a Heaven Punisher from Hildetorr is H7 or something like that. Convert that to a percent, convert that to a number, then get back to me.

[VioletSkye]

On 2003-09-11 12:11, Zarana wrote:
Okay, it's clear you don't stand half a chance against me in a real argument, so I think I'll just quit trying. Let me look over your post, though, for more hilarious quotes. Here's another list for you.

1. I've answered your question. It just wasn't what you want to hear. But here I go again. "Suromimi is not the only one who has this information, and I have already seen it." Okay? I'm sorry if this isn't the Holy Grail of PSO item findings, but there are plenty of other places I can go that have the rarity down to a hundred thousandth of a percent.

2. Making an unfounded personal attack about how I'm not at work right now is not only a logical fallacy, it makes you look like you're on the defensive. But I guess if you're such an expert on advice, tell me this. With a class this afternoon, how am I supposed to also be working? Haha.

3. It's not complex, it's a percentage system written in hex. And yes, that rhymes. Complex, hex, I am aware that that rhymes. So before you use the fact that I'm rhyming as another futile attempt to feign power in this argument (which, trust me, you haven't had from the start) then don't even bother. The Japanese site I've linked you to that you won't even consider has taken the hex and turned it into actual percents. So the rarity of, say, a Psycho Wand boils down to about .000193765%, okay? (Note, thos are not the actual numbers, but you get the picture)

As hard as it is to believe, there are people out there who have been able to take this information and turn it into actual numbers. And when you're finally able to do the same, not only do I think you'll come up with the same odds I've seen elsewhere, I know it. So don't tell me that the rarity of a Heaven Punisher from Hildetorr is H7 or something like that. Convert that to a percent, convert that to a number, then get back to me.



Again I will refute your idiocy.

1. You didn't answer my question, you simply rattled on and on about this "site" you go to. I have never heard what you personally have found in the files.

2. I never said that you didn't work. Again PLEASE find anywhere that I said "Zarana doesn't have a job". I was saying that I have a job and that I don't have access to anything but my work computer. I have a sarcastic sense of humor so you obviously took that as an attack on you which it was not. I have no way of knowing whether you work or not, nor do I care.

3. It is NOT a simple percentage system in hex and if you looked at the files youself (as I have suggested) you would see that CLEARLY. But I know that you won't so its a mute point.

Its too bad you don't have a better understanding of how the data is calculated, but then that is the conflict people run into when arguing with those who have no concept of what they are seeing. That is not a personal attack Zarana, but merely an observation. If you looked at the file yourself, you would see how complex the drop system is. Hopefully when everything is finalized you will have a better understanding of how it works.

[TekkamanBlade]

Look u ppl argue to much. Why dont u just listen to the person who has the data files them selfes. I was looking for Heaven's Punisher myself about 4-5 weeks ago and i still havent found a Heaven Punisher from a Hildertorr. And i usually find at least 3-4 at a time doing Forest of Sorrow. The point is its hard to find like ppl told keep trying and u might just get it. Nothing to it , if u want it bad enough u will stick to it till u find it =)

[Bit]

Yeah, enough arguing before it turns into something bigger, and gets out of hand.

Just let it go, who cares who is right and who is wrong, it's childish fighting.

[AlphaDoom]

Basically I just wanted to know how hard it was to get and now I know. Cheers for the info.

[Zarana]

Haha, I think the argument is already over. You don't need to worry, Violet just proved my point.

The 1/205 Hildetorr Heaven Punisher may not be right, something I've acknowledged all along. However, in saying that the data is too complicated to find actual numbers from, Violet is admitting that she or he doesn't know what's right in the end.

So please, do yourself and everyone else a favor and stop correcting people. Stop it right now, because you have no right to. "The charts are complicated" is no reason to assume that no one else has been able to make an actual number out of them. And furthermore, since you yourself can't, you have to stop professing your knowledge on reasonable doubt alone.

True until proven false, right until proven wrong, etc. Get out of these topics with your ridiculous charts, interpret them, then come back. I'm not saying that 1/205 is the absolute, end-all, be-all of Hildetorr rarities, but it's sure as heck better than anything you've got.

[Ketchup345]

On 2003-09-11 12:43, Zarana wrote:
The 1/205 Hildetorr Heaven Punisher may not be right, something I've acknowledged all along.


That site is the only idea so far of how many enemies it may take, until Sounomi posts how the drop system works, as was said, it may not be 100% or even 70% right, but thats the best we have for now. Excavation reports may help a little, but not really with rare enemies and not all areas are done.

[VioletSkye]

On 2003-09-11 12:43, Zarana wrote:
Haha, I think the argument is already over. You don't need to worry, Violet just proved my point.

The 1/205 Hildetorr Heaven Punisher may not be right, something I've acknowledged all along. However, in saying that the data is too complicated to find actual numbers from, Violet is admitting that she or he doesn't know what's right in the end.

So please, do yourself and everyone else a favor and stop correcting people. Stop it right now, because you have no right to. "The charts are complicated" is no reason to assume that no one else has been able to make an actual number out of them. And furthermore, since you yourself can't, you have to stop professing your knowledge on reasonable doubt alone.

True until proven false, right until proven wrong, etc. Get out of these topics with your ridiculous charts, interpret them, then come back. I'm not saying that 1/205 is the absolute, end-all, be-all of Hildetorr rarities, but it's sure as heck better than anything you've got.


Heh, think what you want Zarana. You proved nothing. You tell us to get out of these posts but I see your misinformed behind in here constantly telling people outrageous chances they will have in order to get items. So to say that 1/205 is better than what we have, take into account that it means nothing. I can make up a % also, I'll use 1/305, who are you to say my figure is less accurate. You have access to the file. You can look at it whenever you want. When someone sees you quoting some outrageous chance (I remember you telling someone that it would take Redria 12,000 enemies to get a Psychowand) that is totally off base, its a disservice for you to discourage them like that with your "facts". So obviously someone has to set the record straight,


I found the quote in the other post:

" Way more than one hundred. Count on something a little closer to twelve thousand.

In my opinion, you should just make a Purplenum and get it from Mil Lilly. That's where every Psycho Wand is found."

You don't know thats where EVERY psychowand was found.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2003-09-11 12:52 ]</font>

[Bit]

Okay =

Take it to pm, or aim. I know you guys probably won't, but to prevent anymore type of argument, or future flaming..