MUUT DITTS POUMN?

[Cab]

In some of Ricos messages she mentions MUUT DITTS POUMN. What does it mean?

[Cab]

I guess I stumped everyone............

[EvilNixon666]

It's a message from Satan when you turn it around.

Actually, I believe it's a reference to the planets in the Algol solar system.



Yea, I can't spell!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EvilNixon666 on 2003-09-13 22:21 ]</font>

[SpyroDi]

There's a claw called Heart of Poumn...

Okay,I didn't help much http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[_Sinue_]

Muut = Motavia

Ditts = Dezolias

Pounm = Palma

Those are three of the four planets making up the Algo star system, where the rest of the Phantasy Star series takes place. Those three planets act as an interdimensional seal, binding The Profound Darkness (Dark Falz's daddy, the purest incarnation of evil) from entering our reality. The seal weakens once every 1,000 years, and allows the Profound Darkness to release a Dark Force into our world in an attempt to destory the seal. Rycross, the 4th planet, serves as a warning star of this event.

In PSO, each name in the seal is assigned a color. These are references to the climates of each planet. Muut, the desert planet Motavia, is red. Ditts, the barren ice covered planet, is blue. Pounm, the terran homeworld of Alis Landale and center of Algolian civilization, is green.

[Spider]

I didn't believe people holding such knowledge existed, I feal smarter after reading that http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[DolmolmKing]

http://www.camineet.net/theories/This website has a lot of therories based on the PSO series. Some are pretty good.

[_Sinue_]

I tend not to believe in those theories. Most of them are written by Mike Ripplinger who, if any of you know him, is a self styled Rush Limbaugh. He tends to write his opinion as fact and to be damned with anyone who doesn't agree. He openly refuses to incorperate new data gleaned by translations of the original JP games.. taking the stance that the JP PS series is a completely different set of games from the US versions. The PS series is filled with bad translations, misconceptions, and outright plotline errors. However, he views these errors as "correct" since they were not changed in the US re-release of the games in the Phantasy Star Collection for the GBA. "Obviously, that's how they wanted the story to be told to US audiences", when completely dismissing the fact that the games were left largely unchanged from their original for the sake of prosperity... not to mention to save a few bucks in the process.

On the whole, I find many of Mikes theories to be nothing more than his opinion passed off as facts... and like his buddy Rush, he has his flocking of ditto-heads who are incapable of thinking for themselves. Just remember that there are plenty of other PS-Scholars out there with different views on the events in the game. Just because their ideas aren't posted on a website - doesn't mean that they're invalidated or less than Mike's in the least.

[Cab]

Thanks sinue. but where did you learn all of this?

[Reece]

Probaly from playing Phantsy Star

[HUShadow]

lol, yes, teach us your ways!

[_Sinue_]

Yeah, I've beaten the series a few times. Phantasy Star 1-4 along with Phantasy Star Gaiden, Phantasy Star Adventure, and Phantasy Star Online v.1 - Ep II. I've also got a few friends who are even more knowladgeable than me about it. There's a few sites out there with information from the Japaneese versions and resources as well - such as original translated scripts, Book of Hunters, and Phantasy Star Compendium.

I've still yet to play the Telemodem games though. They were text based games you could download to your Genesis over in Japan that played alot like Phantasty Star Adventure. They revolved around the prestories and after stories of most (or all) of the Phantasy Star II cast.

[HUShadow]

wow...I only have PSO1&2 and the PS collection I,II,III...and I could never understand any of the PS collection.

[Aphrodite2003]

Ok, this ,might be off subject, not totally though but, I heard that the Psycho Wand, played an important part in one of the PS games? What did it do. I have the PS games for GBadvance, but I havee not beaten them yet. So, anyinfo on the PW would be great.

[_Sinue_]

The Psycho Wand is found in Phantasy Star 4, and it's key to defeating Zio, who worships and serves the Profound Darkness. When you first fight him, he stomps your party and (*Edited for Spoilers*) with his Black Energy Wave. You have to find Ledea Tower and get the P-Wand from it's top floor. Using the Psycho Wand, you're able to destory Zio's Magic Barrier and eventualy defeat him.

http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/genesis/ps4/images/walkthroughpics/part6/monsen11.gif

[Kadou]

I'm a little curious about something. Someone once mentioned seeing a pic of Flowen using the Psycho Wand to summon Dark Falz during the credits of Ult. Episode 1. If this really does appear, I don't suppose there's some connection between it and the topic of your last post, Sinue, is there?

And yes, I realize that logic clearly says that this porbably isn't true, seeing as there isn't any reason for Flowen to be summoning Dark Falz. Before anyone else makes the comment, I realize that Flowen is HUmar, and thus shouldn't be able to use the Psycho Wand, but to stubbornly accept that and absolutely nothing else would be a very limited and not very productive way of thinking.

[OnnaWren]

Hmmm. Pic please? I can't theorise on simple rumor.

Oh, and Sin, you is teh r0x0rzzz. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif *high-fives* http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Spider]

Ahhh, I'm yet to conquer any of the original PS games (nearly done 2, then my file was erased, and while I was waiting for episode 1 & 2 I nearly did PS1) everytime I read stuff like that, I get urges to play, I just never get through the whole game :S

[ilr2000]

ironically I've seen this too.. about five minutes ago. I accidentally went into the portal at the end of offline darkfalz and had to let the credits roll. When I glanced at the screen midway through I noticed all the pics are totally different. (some of them pretty damn interesting). The very last pic showed the Falz tower, but I couldn't make out who was standing at the foot of it. Now that I think of it, it mighta been Flowen.

[vegeta000110]

If that's the case, you can see that at every diff, as long as you beat all the quests. And I did see that Falz tower pic 7 times (3 N, 2 H, 2 VH)

[Ranger_Larry]

Heh, I've seen a Hunewearl with a rifle type weapon so seeing a Humar with a P-wand is no stretch lol. (in on of those offline quests)

[_Sinue_]

I doubt it was Flowen. Yeah, I've seen the picture you're referring to. If you beat all of the offline quests, and then defeat Dark Falz offline you get an alternate ending. If you have v.2 for the Dreamcast, you can see this ending by typing in "URAENDING" at the title screen.

The guy you see holding what looks like the Psycho Wand (not sure if it is though) is wearing a cloak and cowel.. which looks very different from Flowen's attire. However, it does look stikingly similar to another PSO NPC who hasn't been released yet..

http://www.pso-dynasty.8m.net/images/catninja2.jpg
(Props to SLYM for the pic - we miss ya)

This fellow was in the code for PSO v.2 (and probably in there somewhere for Ep II) but was never released in a quest. GS and CB users used a variant of the NOL code to skin themselves up as him (and other characters). My guess is that he was supposed to play a part in an important quest, and reveal himself as being the one seen in the picture at Falz's obelisk. We'll never know though.. unless Sega decides to actually release the quest.

And here's a little something odd just for the hell of it.

http://www.pso-dynasty.8m.net/images/redringricob1.jpg
http://www.pso-dynasty.8m.net/images/sonicslymheros.jpg

[_Sinue_]

Heh, Hey Onna. I was wondering when you'd show up. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Snoogin

I love these kinds of threads, so keep the questions comming if you want guys.

[ShadowJedi]

I went too far....


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShadowJedi on 2003-09-15 22:01 ]</font>

[BonusKun]

The fact that I knew most of this makes me feel really old now....

[Spider]

I must admit I'm not quite the master of spelling, and about feeling old, I think I may be one of the oldest PSOW users (in this thread anyways!) just not as hardcore as a player as I should be http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[_Sinue_]

Naw.. not by a long shot Spider. If yer birthdate in yer profile is right, you're only 17 years old. Me, Onna, and SNK have you beat. I'm 24, Onna is like 30, and SNK is like 32.

But hey.. you're only as old as you feel right? If that's true.. then I should have been dead a week ago. -_-'

[Coxy]

On 2003-09-15 01:17, _Sinue_ wrote:
Naw.. not by a long shot Spider. If yer birthdate in yer profile is right, you're only 17 years old. Me, Onna, and SNK have you beat. I'm 24, Onna is like 30, and SNK is like 32.

But hey.. you're only as old as you feel right? If that's true.. then I should have been dead a week ago. -_-'


wow some interesting stuff sinue http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I might have to look into getting some of the other PS games, but i have no idea about what platforms they are on or anything :|

32 isnt old, I'm 20 myself, my brother has just turned 30/31 and hes still acting like a teenager, lol

[_Sinue_]

Well, if you have a GameBoy Advance you could pick up the Phantasy Star Collection which covers games 1 thru III. Phantasy Star 4 isn't included on the collection cart, so you'll need to pick up a Sega Genesis Emulator and the ROM of PS4 if you want to play that. You'll also need a Master System/Game Gear emulator if you want to play the translated versions of Phantasy Star Adventure or Phantasy Star Gaiden.

I suggest Meka as a SMS/GG emu, and Genecyst for a Genesis Emu.

Phantasy Star 1 - Master System (Though there was also a limited series JP only Genesis remake - not sure if the translated ROM exists or not)

Phantasy Star 2 - Genesis

Phantasy Star 3 - Genesis

Phantasy Star 4 - Genesis

PSGaiden - GameGear

PSAdventure - GameGear

[OnnaWren]

Hmmm, playing through Episode II again, there is a little blurb that just might support Flowen's being at the obelisk at the time that Dark Falz came back into being...

From Renard Benoit's Complete PSO Script (http://psoscript.netfirms.com/):

>Search Log
... [radio noise]
...
"...Explosion..."
...
"...Born from the abyss..."
...
...
...
"...Crew from Pioneer 1..."
...
...
"...I could see them being engulfed..."
...
"...I could see it all from here..."
*... [radio noise]
"...I was already overpowered..."
"..."
"...Searching for..."
...
"...It saw my thoughts..."
...
"Something to serve as a focus..."
...
"...It wanted to evolve..."
*... [radio noise]
"...?"
"...Why..."
"...Left only that..."
...
"...No..."
...
"Not her..."
...
"...Not that girl..."
...
"...Please..."
...
"...Stop..."
*... [radio noise]
...
...
"...!..."
...
"...No..."
...
"...Couldn't stop..."
...
...
...
"...For all things..."
*... [radio noise]
...
...
"...She..."
...
...
"...She'll..."
...
*. [radio noise]
..
...

I truly doubt, though, that Flowen was directly responsible for Dark Falz's resurrection. As seen many times in the past, it is apparent that the DFs know how to "lock on" to the Palman genome- and there is no better pastime for a DF than the extermination of Palmans, their creations, or their descendants.

Although, it has been seen in the past, that DFs are capable of possessing Palmans as well (e.g. Seth, the archaeologist)...

Hmm.

[Nei3rd]

You think it could have been someone else? Maybe a Force using a Psycho Wand to resurrect DF for his own selfish purposes? It could be that. Flowen was just corrupted by DF after DF war released.

[Guntz348]

On 2003-09-14 06:44, _Sinue_ wrote:
I tend not to believe in those theories. Most of them are written by Mike Ripplinger who, if any of you know him, is a self styled Rush Limbaugh. He tends to write his opinion as fact and to be damned with anyone who doesn't agree. He openly refuses to incorperate new data gleaned by translations of the original JP games.. taking the stance that the JP PS series is a completely different set of games from the US versions. The PS series is filled with bad translations, misconceptions, and outright plotline errors. However, he views these errors as "correct" since they were not changed in the US re-release of the games in the Phantasy Star Collection for the GBA. "Obviously, that's how they wanted the story to be told to US audiences", when completely dismissing the fact that the games were left largely unchanged from their original for the sake of prosperity... not to mention to save a few bucks in the process.

On the whole, I find many of Mikes theories to be nothing more than his opinion passed off as facts... and like his buddy Rush, he has his flocking of ditto-heads who are incapable of thinking for themselves. Just remember that there are plenty of other PS-Scholars out there with different views on the events in the game. Just because their ideas aren't posted on a website - doesn't mean that they're invalidated or less than Mike's in the least.



I was just reading through a lot of the stuff on Camineet and those statments can't be more true. Are you familiar with his argument that Noah and Lutz are two completly different people? His arguments do tend to be pretty rediculous and his insistance that the JP and US games should be treated as two totally seperate games and that all the translation problems were 100% deliberate and intentional is just obsurd.

Anyone who knew a bit about games back in those days would know that one of the biggest tabboos was religeon. Noah most likely went through into PSI simply because it may have slipped under the radar, or it wasn't such a major concern for Sega at the time. Back in the 8-bit days, the religeon in games wasn't that big of a deal but it did emerge more in the 16-bit days and latere, once games became much more popular and therefore, "influential" on kids. I highly doubt Sega USA had much faith in the PS series back in those days as well.

When PSII came over here the game was a much bigger undertaking. Not only was it going to be much more commercial but it was also much more expesive to produce. Back at that time PSII was a 6 meg cart, which at the time was pretty big and expesive to make. I would think ST wouldn't want to risk bringing a relgeous based name into the game could get it black balled by people. Changing the name, not the character itself, to Lutz was a much easier solution to this problem.

He also notes some points where Rune changes the tenses he speakes in, from first to third person. This can also be acredited to poor translations. I don't speak japanese, but I do know that one of the taboos of spoken japanese is referering to your self as "I". Many of the phrasings of the original game are completly different from what we got here, simply because you can't translate japanese into english literally, everything must first be inturprited. Unless you are working side by side with the original writers you do not know what there original intentions of many of the statments and phrases were meant to be. This is like making a book into a movie. A vast majority of the details and most of the time, major plot points and details, are changed or completly lost once you translate the written word to the moving picture.

Sorry for going a bit off topic but I was curious as to what you guys thought about the Noah/Lutz debate. Back to the original topic, shouldn't there be a fourth seal for Ryucross/Rykros? Originaly it was one star with 4 points to make the seal. The sun, Moto/Motovia/Motobia, Palm/Palma/Parma, Dezo/Dezolis/Dezoris and Ryucross/Rykros. Even though the orbit of Ryucross/Rykros is abnormal and takes it out of the star system it would still be a part of the seal. Perhaps this is why the seal weakens every 1000 years. When Ryucross/Rykros is at is pinaccle, the farthest distance from the star system it is during its orbit, the seal weakens. This would stand to make sence, as being so far away would "tug" at the seal. The only problem I really see with this is that with the loss of Palm/Palma/Parma, an integral part of the seal, wouldn't it most likely fail? If not completely, would the window for the Darkness to get out be much larger?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Guntz348 on 2003-09-15 14:13 ]</font>

[Spider]

On 2003-09-15 01:17, _Sinue_ wrote:
Naw.. not by a long shot Spider. If yer birthdate in yer profile is right, you're only 17 years old. Me, Onna, and SNK have you beat. I'm 24, Onna is like 30, and SNK is like 32.

But hey.. you're only as old as you feel right? If that's true.. then I should have been dead a week ago. -_-'



I meant to say been a member of the forum the longest, could be wrong but, I just signed up when I got PSO for the DC and just every now and then have PSOW attacks where I come here heaps, then leave again then come back bla bla bla!

[Solidus_Snake]

As anyone who has played PS2 would know that Palma was destroyed when Mother Brain crashed the prison Satellite Gaira into it thus destroying it. Not only did she destroy the center of algos technology but also took out 1/4th of the seal. this is why you get to fight 3 forms of dark force in PS4. i think that Noah/Lutz are two different people. Theres a 1000 year gap between PS1 to PS2 and who knows how Noah already is in the duration of PS1. And Rykros comes around when the seal does weaken so it can show the chosen protectors what they are meant to do. Only in PS4 do you get to explore Rykros. You have to collect 5 rings to show that you are suitable for protectors. After that you go and get Chaz's final weapon Elsydeon(AKA Elysion in PSO terms). This is also were you get the most powerful technique for Chaz, Megid. And no this is isnt the flying purple fart cloud everyone is familiar with instead this is what it really is a spell powered by hate and anger. What a good way to vent your anger when your pissed, into a destructive spell thats almost like numerous lv30 rafoies going off repeatedly.

Throw more questions toward your knowledgable ones as I am also one of them (only 14 just to let you know)

[Coxy]

On 2003-09-15 18:59, Spider wrote:


On 2003-09-15 01:17, _Sinue_ wrote:
Naw.. not by a long shot Spider. If yer birthdate in yer profile is right, you're only 17 years old. Me, Onna, and SNK have you beat. I'm 24, Onna is like 30, and SNK is like 32.

But hey.. you're only as old as you feel right? If that's true.. then I should have been dead a week ago. -_-'




I meant to say been a member of the forum the longest, could be wrong but, I just signed up when I got PSO for the DC and just every now and then have PSOW attacks where I come here heaps, then leave again then come back bla bla bla!



and i've been here even longer than you http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif i just don't post often http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif i know i should post more

[Nai_Calus]

I really should play the PS games one of these years. I've been playing PSIV a bit, but I have a somewhat buggy ROM that likes to freeze up going into battles, which makes it a bit of a hassle to level and such... -.- That, and it seems a bit backwards to play the 4th game in the series first... xx Then again, I read the newspaper from back to front. >P

Heh, I'm surprised Onna hasn't harped on the Mods for not adding a Wren avatar amidst the other PSIV avatars that got added. ;-P

Or maybe she and everyone else is just glad I'm using the SD Calus sprite as my avatar now instead of repeating my SD Elly sprite twice every post... >P

[_Sinue_]

The whole Noah-Lutz debate isn't really my speciality as Phantasy Star 1 is probably my least played game in the series, and the one I know the least about. However, I do know that in the original Japaneese version (and MegaDrive re-release) that Noah's name is Lutz. It was changed TO Noah for the US release. My view has always been that they are the same person from PS1 to PS2. However the translation team that worked on PSII was probably a different group of people from the PSI teams. If they did any research into PSI, they probably looked at the original Japaneese. Thus, they translated it as the original Lutz rather than the US PSI's Noah. That's just my personal conjecture though.. I'm not sure. I see Lutz as being the same person from PS1 to PS2. He was kept in Cryosleep to preserve him for the time when Dark Force would once again break from the seal. However, something went wrong after PSII. Weither they couldn't stop the aging process completely.. or something happened in the mean-time which killed Lutz.. I'm not sure. Seems to be a good springboard for some Fanfiction though. Point is, Rune from PSIV is NOT Lutz. The original Lutz died, and he transfered his thoughts and memories onto his chosen successor. That successor then passed on Lutz's memories and experience (as well as his own) onto the next chosen "Lutz". This happened for quite some time until you meet the current Lutz, Rune, in PSIV.

My question is.. if the Espers are guardians of Algo - protecting it against the Profound Darkness by aiding the chosen of each generation in defeating the Dark Falz's.. then what is their purpose after the Profound Darkness is defeated? Their organization goes on.. you can see this is the case as there's a picture of Kyra sometime in the future praying.. and Rune himself leaves Chaz and Rika to "Gain more knowladge", and hone his skills which will be passed onto the next Lutz. Perhaps they go on as protectors, awaiting the next unknown threat rather than preparing for the next attack by Dark Force? The ending does leave room for another sequel with the line "The eons-old struggle between Light and Dark has ended, and now the
curtain rises on a new age..." This could imply a era of peace and properity.. or it could signify a new threat looming on the horizion. We may never know.. as I could see Sega making a Prequel to PSI as their next offline Phantasy Star RPG rather than a sequel to PS4. After all.. the Profound Darkness has been around for Eons.. and the PS series only spans the timeframe of 3,000 years.

As for Rykros, I thought the same thing for awhile.. but that's not the case. The seal only consists of 3 planets. Rykros is only meant as a warning star. However, it's never appeared in any PS game before it. The protectors kind of fall into their destiny of fighting Dark Force, rather than being guided there by Rykros. Only in PSIV do you learn of it's existance, and only in PSIV does it serve an important purpose. Of course, only in PSIV do you fight the Profound Darkness. It could be that it was at one time used as a beakon to warn of Dark Force's comming.. but the secret was lost to the ages. Think of it's warnings as a secondary objective.. with it's true purpose being to await the time when it's aid is needed and to make sure the guardians were prepared enough to fight the final battle.

Also think of it like this.. were Rykros a part of the seal.. it would become a target of the Profound Darkness. The knowladge and protection it provides is too valuable to risk loosing.. as you know the Profound Darkness would attempt to destory it first and foremost to ensure that nothing could stand in it's way. By making Rykros's orbit highly eliptical, it was hidden from everyone - even the Earthmen who had studdied the system and it's inhabitants for several hundred years. In this way, the Profound Darkness (trapped behind the seal) would not know of it's existance and only focus on destorying the seal - rather than destorying the one planet which contained the power to allow the guardians to defeat him. Perhaps Rykros was hidden all this time, even from the guardians, to prevent Dark Force and the Profound Darkness from finding out about it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Sinue_ on 2003-09-15 23:49 ]</font>

[ShadowJedi]

On 2003-09-15 22:01, _Sinue_ wrote:
The whole Noah-Lutz debate isn't really my speciality as Phantasy Star 1 is probably my least played game in the series, and the one I know the least about. However, I do know that in the original Japaneese version (and MegaDrive re-release) that Noah's name is Lutz. It was changed TO Noah for the US release. My view has always been that they are the same person from PS1 to PS2. However the translation team that worked on PSII was probably a different group of people from the PSI teams. If they did any research into PSI, they probably looked at the original Japaneese. Thus, they translated it as the original Lutz rather than the US PSI's Noah. That's just my personal conjecture though.. I'm not sure. I see Lutz as being the same person from PS1 to PS2. He was kept in Cryosleep to preserve him for the time when Dark Force would once again break from the seal. However, something went wrong after PSII. Weither they couldn't stop the aging process completely.. or something happened in the mean-time which killed Lutz.. I'm not sure. Seems to be a good springboard for some Fanfiction though. Point is, Rune from PSIV is NOT Lutz. The original Lutz died, and he transfered his thoughts and memories onto his chosen successor. That successor then passed on Lutz's memories and experience (as well as his own) onto the next chosen "Lutz". This happened for quite some time until you meet the current Lutz, Rune, in PSIV.

My question is.. if the Espers are guardians of Algo - protecting it against the Profound Darkness by aiding the chosen of each generation in defeating the Dark Falz's.. then what is their purpose after the Profound Darkness is defeated?

I havn't beaten PSVI, I don't know if I've played half of it. I actually havn't beaten a single PS game, PSO, I have beaten.
But, are you sure about the passing of memories and experience, because I read, somewhere, long ago, that Rune was a reincarnation of the esper Noah/Lutz.

And the second thing, why would anybody be able to defeat the Profound Darkness? Maybe it's immortal, or it would never leave itself open for an attack.
There must be a reason for sealing it instead of destroying it.

[_Sinue_]

"...Born from the abyss..."
...
...
...
"...Crew from Pioneer 1..."
...
...
"...I could see them being engulfed..."
...
"...I could see it all from here..."
*... [radio noise]
"...I was already overpowered..."
"..."
"...Searching for..."
...
"...It saw my thoughts..."
...
"Something to serve as a focus..."
...
"...It wanted to evolve..." - OnnaWren

Possibly. I've always taken that line to mean that Flowen was laying at the bottom of the Bio-waste disposal shaft - linked to Dark Falz telepathically though the D-Cellular effects on his body. Because he was, in part, one-in-the-same as Dark Falz.. he could see events as they transpired through Dark Falz's eyes. He could see Dark Falz as he rose from the ground and caused the explosion which destoryed everyone - except for Red Ring Rico, which as you see by reading further into your quote, that Dark Falz was targeting to be his host.

Even after all this time, the plot line of PSO still confuses me a bit. Dark Falz was released prior to Flowen entering the Ruins. No-where in his messages does Flowen reveal that he or his team found a strange box and opened it.. only that he saw "IT" rising from an abyss as a formless entity that looked as though it was cycling through the stages of life and death. Also, I believe it's in "Knowing one's Heart", but I recall a line saying that something had infected Pioneer1's computers and turned the robots against their masters and against Pioneer2. The military was sent down to the mines to find out what was going on.. and there they found the ruins. If Dark Falz was responsible for the machines going haywire.. then he must have already been released by the time Flowen discovered the ruins. So who released Dark Force first?

[_Sinue_]

But, are you sure about the passing of memories and experience, because I read, somewhere, long ago, that Rune was a reincarnation of the esper Noah/Lutz.

Yeah, I'm pretty positive that Rune is not Lutz in anything but memory. Rune points this out several times in the game that he only carries the memories and experiences of the original Lutz, and it was passed on to him from someone who was also not Lutz. In a way, Rune is Lutz reincarnated.. but it's more appropriate to think of Lutz and Rune as being merged together into one being. In a way, Lutz is still living and acting through Rune - but Rune is also his own person, with his own personality, and his own perspective.


And the second thing, why would anybody be able to defeat the Profound Darkness? Maybe it's immortal, or it would never leave itself open for an attack. There must be a reason for sealing, not destorying it.

I've wrestled with this issue myself. I simply don't understand how 5 morals can defeat a god - even with devine weapons and protection. Nevertheless, that's what happened. It wasn't just Chaz who struck the moral blow with a simple weapon. The Elysdion is infused with the souls and the power of all the guardians who ever fought Dark Force before him. So in essence, the entire cast of PSI and PSII were striking out against the Profound Darkness everytime Chaz swung.

As for why the Great Light simply sealed the Profound Darkness away rather than destorying it.. I don't know. Even Chaz asks this question in PSIV. He doesn't feel it's his responsiblity to fight this thing, while the Great Light is off doing whatever in some distant galaxy like some cosmic dead-beat dad. As to how they could even HIT a god with a sword.. the Rings of Algo protected the guardians from the majority of the PD's power. Perhaps the PD could only kill them by pummeling them with physical attacks (which doesn't actually happen - he uses magic and beam attacks - even Megid) and while he was in physical form to attack them, they could attack.

[Spider]

The Profound Darkness sounds like one scary begga, care for giving us more information on the Profound Darkness itself, pics and stuff?

Glad to see theres an older (as in been a fan for longer http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) PSO fan then me on here

[BonusKun]

On 2003-09-16 02:48, Spider wrote:
The Profound Darkness sounds like one scary begga, care for giving us more information on the Profound Darkness itself, pics and stuff?

Glad to see theres an older (as in been a fan for longer http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) PSO fan then me on here



It's been a long time since I even gave this much thought so I expect to be corrected horribly at points.

The Profound Darkness was actually one of two being at the start of all this. The Great light or creator has been warring with the Profound Darkness since the start.

As was pointed out earlier the Darkness was defeated and sealed in a place that pretty much consisted of 3 planets being Parma, Motavia & Dezolis. The thing is after time the seal would 'leak' and every 1000 years the profound darkness would be able to let a small part of itself into our universe to reak havoc.

Interesting enough for you PSO player the Elysion was the final sword used by Chaz Ashely to finally meet the profound darkness on it's home turf more or less and defeat it. *Kinda miffed that the PSO Elysion sucks as a sword*

The whole universe of PSO in which you fight Dark Falz/Olga Flow has way too many gaps for me to even consider how the heck this aspect of the story came out. The ruins alone mark Falz as being sealed within a giant tomb which of course you find out later is a huge spaceship that was buried for an unknown amount of time.

Personally it doesn't make it any easier trying to figure who or what left this ship on Ragol. The seal MUUT DITTS POUMN of course aptly refers to those original 3 planets so I'm guessing either the people who sealed Falz were from there or maybe something else realted to this creator had been here before.

So many possible things with a lot of gaps. I'd wish Sonic Team would do something offical to close up these gaps. >_<

[_Sinue_]

What, spill the beans this early and risk loosing potential PSO story starved fans who are willing to pay $9 a month for new quests and buy their Ep III C.A.R.D Revolution game just for the next hint and tidbit of storyline? Nawwww....

As for the Profound Darkness, BonusKun summed it up very nicely. Interesting note though, in the Japaneese version - it wasn't just One being that split into two (The Great Light and Profound Darkness). Instead, they tell it as there being an entire advanced race of etherial beings who waged a terrible war. The loosing side of this civil war was banished to another Dimension and the Seal which is Algo was created to keep them trapped. Over the millenia, their conciousnes's broiling with hated, vengence, and dispair condenced and congeiled into the singular being known as the Profound Darkness.

Here's a pic of the Profound Darkness's final form in PSIV.

http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psiv/pd3.gif

[Solidus_Snake]

thats the 3rd form the one thatll kick your ass if your not careful. Its also the one that uses megid...fun

[BonusKun]

On 2003-09-16 03:17, _Sinue_ wrote:
What, spill the beans this early and risk loosing potential PSO story starved fans who are willing to pay $9 a month for new quests and buy their Ep III C.A.R.D Revolution game just for the next hint and tidbit of storyline? Nawwww....

Yeah I know. The more I think about it and the serius gaps that Sega left here makes my brain twitch each time they release something new with more info and yet leave you with more questions.



Here's a pic of the Profound Darkness's final form in PSIV.

http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psiv/pd3.gif



Awwww it's sooooo cute. And of course I see the smart team player here has that Master of bad puns Raja.

Yes his jokes sucked a big fat one but, he was a team member that made life so much easier. Kinda par for putting up with the jokes VS his value as a team member.


fyi about beating on a god so to speak. My own feelings are that even the Profound Darkness when it manifests in our universe, it's forced to take on a shape that conforms with the natural law of our universe or as in PSO, seek out a host body with which to hold it's conciousness.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BonusKun on 2003-09-16 05:06 ]</font>

[_Sinue_]

Well true.. but remember.. when you fight the Profound Darkness, you're in IT'S universe. The rings of Algo are there to conform and protect YOU while you're there fighting.

I also find it a bit ironic that, with their history of strong female role models and almost idology of females in many cases - Sega decided to make the final form of the ultimate incarnation of evil a woman, confirming what many heavily inebreated men across America are thinking right now.

Maybe the Art Director on the Overworks staff was going through a messy breakup or divorce at the time? o_O

[BonusKun]

Either that or maybe it's somebody's idea women can be good or evil but in the end they are ultimatly evil. *slaps knee*

[ShadowJedi]

From what I've read here, it seems that the Profound Darkness is beaten/killed at the end of PSIV.
This would mean that 1000 (at least) years before the first PS game, the entity called Dark Falz must've been sealed in a gigantic spaceship, and sent to the planet Ragol.

[Guntz348]

On 2003-09-16 07:25, ShadowJedi wrote:
From what I've read here, it seems that the Profound Darkness is beaten/killed at the end of PSIV.
This would mean that 1000 (at least) years before the first PS game, the entity called Dark Falz must've been sealed in a gigantic spaceship, and sent to the planet Ragol.



Most likely it was either one of two ships. Either A, Rune and the other espers sealed it in the worldship that crashed on motovia. He then had Wren fly the ship to a planet outside the star system and seal it with the three monoliths. The second way could have been a piece of Dark Force was on one or more of the worldships that escaped Palma. It then crash landed on Ragol and either there were espers on the ship who survived long enough to seal it in the ship and make the three ruins to bind the seal, or most likely it would have been Rune and Wren who tracked it down and sealed it up.

The reason I would say Rune and Wren is because it was in PSIV that it was revealed that the star system was one giant seal. Before that WE didn't know it, but it's unclear if the espers did and just never told us. Either way we know it was an esper who sealed it most likely Rune and or Kyra. PSIII and IV happened roughly around the same time. Since it would take 1000 years, or less because of the loss of Palma, for Dark Force to come back, most people believe that PSO takes place around AU 3000. I don't think I've seen an exact date for it though, but I've read a few pieces that suggest that it takes place around this time and it makes sence. PSIII and IV were around AU 2200, and since the seal is greatly weakened it would stand to reason that Dark Force could get out earlier now.

The one thing that's important to remeber is this, now I'm not sure who said this but I know its been printed several times in EGM as wel as on this site and many other places. One of the creaters of PSO stated that this was a stand alone game that only used the PS world as a lose base for the game. It was not meant to be tied directly into the PS games story line and therefore, the ship could've gotten there any number of ways. I think most the older PS references were put in the game just as a little something extra for the people that played the old games. A little hint of nastalgia for us old timers who remeber the old days of the series.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Guntz348 on 2003-09-16 08:33 ]</font>

[Valleo]

A few offhand remaks. Firstly, I think that picture with the Psycho Wand toting mystery man is actually of Rune sealing away Dark Falz in the ruins post PS4. Also, im pretty sure even Rune was surprised to know that the 3 planets of Algo were a seal. Since he has all of Noah and Lutz's memories, im guessing they didnt know either. And the the seals themselves are esper markings (the seals on the pillars). I dont remember where i saw the two compared, but mabye someone else knows where to find these pics.

Also, isnt the sword called Elsydeon in the PS games, and not Elysion? It may just be a slight spelling change, but if I remember correctly, Elsydeon was detroyed at the end of PS4. But its been a while.

In any case, that may explain why Dark Falz had to be sealed away post PS4. Despite the fact that the Profound Darkness was destroyed, Elsydeon was also destroyed, and now the protectors have no way to defeat Falz.... mabye. Who knows. Of course the fact that all of us have killed him millions of times kind of negates that theory.

As for the date of the game, isnt there a song in the game with a date in it? Something like 3084? Im pretty sure I read that somewhere.

And lastly, if im not mistaken, every 1000 years the PD would spawn a Dark Force, which in turn can spawn a Dark Falz. Is that not how it worked? If not, ok i guess im wrong, but wouldnt that mean that even with the Profound Darkness gone, if a Dark Force remained somewhere it could create a Dark Falz without the 1000 year wait?

What ever happened to the Alisa 3 after it reached earth (after travelling back in time through a Black Hole)? Did it still have a Dark Force aboard? Someone please refresh my memory.

[_Sinue_]

It was in a Famitsu interview that the member of the PSO's team said that PSO and the PS series weren't connected. From the evidence I've seen, it looks as thought they programmed the game both ways. It was probably originally intended to be a part of the series - hence many of the plotline ties and similarities, but somewhere along the line it was determined that PSO would be a stand-alone game. This is evident, I think, because in the Book of Hunters, there's a Wren model character which was originally designed to be in PSO - but was later cut and never developed or implimented. I've heard people talk about a unfinished NPC in the DC version which was used as a variant of NOL. This character was called Type:X and has no character model or definitive stats - you FSOD when they NOL you and your disk tries to read the data. I haven't experienced this myself - so I can't say one way or another if this is true.

I personally believe that the series is connected, simply for the fact that it makes the storyline of PSO all that much more epic and grand. It gives my characters a place and purpose far greater than they would normally have, and it would be a great springboard for some Fanfiction should I ever decide to write some.

The way I view things, PSO takes place some time between the events of PSII and PSIV, durring the time of the Great Collapse. I don't think the Great Collapse was a sudden event, but rather a slow and gradual change preturbed by planetary collisions from destoryed chunks of Palma still floating around in the Algo solar system. We know Motavia went though some heavy climate changes after Mother Brain was destroyed. She is the one who originally changed Motavia from a desert into the terraformed center of agriculture we see in PSII. Durring this time, Motavia was emigrated to, and it's population of Palman colonist exploded. Native Motavians were largely driven underground by the presence of the newcomers and the changed enviroment. After Mother Brain's influence ended, Motavia changed back into a desert - you can see this change while it's happening in PSIV. The original arid climate of Motavia was very hostile to Palmans - so from their point of view it would seem as if Motavia was dying.

I don't think that the Pioneer Project launched from Motavia though. Flowen himself mentions his homeworld as being a planet named Coral. Even with PSO's trend of horribly butchering planet names - Coral doesn't come close to the same spelling as any of the other Algo planets. My guess, is that Coral represents another Palman colony outside of the Algo star system. The colony of Copto, as seen in Phantasy Star Gaiden. Since Copto is a Palman colony, far outside of the reach of Algo - it wouldn't have many of the problems the other planets faced durring the Great Collapse. Mother Brain didn't meddle with it's weather or it's culture.. and it would not have been struck by debris from Palma - it's the perfect spot to launch the Pioneer Project from. However, Copto is a small planet - and if immigration from Motavia and Dezolias durring the collapse happened, it's easy to imagine that overpopulation outstripped it's natural resources. Expecially if Palman colonists brought with them some of Mother Brain's old technology. This also explains why you see only decendants of Palman science and heritage. Human, Numan, and Android - but no Motavians or Dezolians.

As for the presence of Numans - I highly doubt Rika herself was responsible for the prosperity of the Numan race. I think it's more plausable that Algolian scientists (perhaps with unknown Earthman help) discected Mother Brain's defunct systems and learned the advanced secrets of Numan creation. We already know they had experience with genetic manipulation (the cloning in PSII, for example).. but not on the scale needed to create Numans. Were they able to stumble upon the secrets of Numan creation while studying the ruins of Motavia's Biosystems plants - it's easy (for me) to imagine that they would recognise the potential of having a manufacturable suppliment to their dwindling population. However, since their science is far from perfect.. they likely couldn't replicate Nei.. or complete the Nei project. What results is Numans who's biology is unstable, and are prone to genetic mistakes which end their lives early - much like Sue mentions in "Unsealed Door". "Newman lifespans are not definate - I could die tomorrow. Science and Technology, they're not as almighty as some people think". However, another Numan project was also carried out by the Supercomputer SEED in BirthValley on Motavia. This supercomputer spent 1000 years perfecting the method of Numan creation - and in the end, we have the culmination of it's work - Rika. Were Rika able to re-create the Numan race, I would imagine she would use the perfected SEED method which created her, rather than the original Flawed method. Because the early Numan race required high maintinence to prosper, the destruction of the civilization and technology used to maintain the race would lead to the races extinction. Hence, there are no mass populations of NUmans in PSIV.

I also believe that the ruins in PSO is the AlisaIII and the Planet Ragol is Earth. This is the largest stumbling block in my ideas - but the evidence is everybit as convincing as the contranry. First off, Ragol is very reminicent of Earth geographically. While there are many differences, there are enough subtle similarities which most likely could never be repoduced on a random planet. The most striking being the Arabian pennisula (v.1 title screen) and on the In-Game planet itself. Ragol sports a continet which looks strikingly simiar to the Americas - complete with Great Lakes. (Viewable only if you Walk Thru Walls due to the cloud cover) Canada is largely intact, as is South America. However Mexico is covered in water.

More convincingly is the visual evidence found the spaceship ruins itself. When you first enter Falz's boss area, you're allowed to walk around and explore the surroundings. The whole shape of the valley is rounded, and implies that it could be the bottom of a dried up lake. To your left, you see gravestones.. and between them you can see areas where the dirt is pushed away to reveal large bricks - implying that there is a structure underneith the dirt. This, dosen't seem like much until you look at Falz's obelisk. It's design and style look like something ripped streight out of the VR Temple Ruins stage. The temple Ruins were designed after the archetecture of the Sunken Palace in PSIII. So what it looks like, to me, is that Falz's final area in PSO is the same sunken palace where you fought him in PSIII.

I think that, after the destruction of Palma, Dark Force was able to release a second Dark Force into the Algo system in PSII. This Dark Force was placed upon the Noah sealed in his Pandora's Box. The original Dark Force was originally on Palma, and escaped it's destruction on the World Ships which fled the doomed planet. There, it proceeded to kill and destory these Worldships as they fled. That is, until it happened upon the AlisaIII - which escaped Algo's Solar System along with two other ships rather than landing on Dezo and Mota like the others did. Once on the AlisaIII, Dark Falz was defeated by Laya and Orakio and sealed away in the Sunken Palace where he lay in wait for you at the end of PSIII. However, the heros of PSIII could not defeat him either, but only sealed him away once more. The ship (acording to Aron's ending) then entered a black hole which sent it spiraling across space and time to Earth. It made first contact with the London Communication Center, and landed intact on Earth. Once there, the Earthmen dissected it's technology and used it irresponisbly - resulting in the destruction of Earth. Not vaporized mind you, but rather they destoryed the ecosystem we depend on to live - and thus they had to find a new home. The spaceship Noah was created and the Earthmen fled to Algo which they learned about through the AlisaIII's computers. They arrived in Algo around 840 AW - between the time of PSI and PSII and established the MotherBrain system which would ultimately weaken and destory the populace of the system - leaving it easy to conquer for the desperately small number of Earthmen who escaped.

The Earthmen were defeated by Rolf and party at the end of PSII however. I don't think they all died.. but as the struggle became more and more desperate, I believe many of them escaped to Motavia. Once there, they integrated secretly into Motavian society and used their knowladge of MotherBrain's systems to help durring the Great Collapse. Because of their knowladge, they ascended high into the ranks of Motavian society - probably becoming some of their greater scientists, military generals, and political leaders. They continued their study of genetics, and still desired to take the planet Motavia for themselves and their properity. To take over the planet at this point, would require a weapon of absolute power. Dark Falz. They knew where he was.. they knew what he was capable of.. and they knew exactly where to find him on the planet. I think they are the shadowy figures we never see in PSO, but hear about who pull the strings of the military and scientists. They used the current crisis of the Great Collapse to justify making the Pioneer Project - and with it they set out for a far distant (both in time, and space) Earth to find the last known Dark Falz specimen. We already know that the Pioneer Project is just a front from Bio-Weapons technology - of all sorts. Dr. Calus's goal was to create 3 autonomous AI's which would later evolve into greater beings through the help of Mother. Pioneer 1's government sent the military into the ruins to subdue Dark Falz - or at least gain practical data on him. As a result, Flowen's entire squad was wiped out, leaving him as the sole survivor. Osto then used Flowen as a living culture tube to gain more D-type cellular mutations to test with - and also implanted the Olga AI core into him to hasten the evolutionary process which was being paralleled at a much slower rate by Calus's Mother Project. In "The Butler's Grave" Blant tells us he was instructed to NOT bring Matha aboard Pioneer 2. I can only see this as a sign that those aboard Pioneer 1 knew they were going to be testing biological weapons from the outset - and didn't want their families involved in case anything happened - or in case the "Powers that be" decide to use the citizens of Pioneer 2 as test fodder for their new weapons. (After all, it would be easy to cover up as an accident being that they are millions of miles from anyone who would question the events that transpired after Pioneer 2 entered orbit)

As for the seal on the ruins - I don't think it was an Esper who did it. In fact, I'm fairly positive it wasn't. The Seal on the door has a habit of reclosing several times in the series. It's sealed when Flowen enters, seals again by the time Rico stumbles upon it, and the seals yet again by the time you make it there. Perhaps it was meant to be that way - but in my line of thinking - once a seal is broken, it's broken. I has to be re-sealed... just closing the door won't do any good. Then again, sealing it away originally didn't do much good either. Were an Esper to seal Dark Force away - he most likely would have done it right, and Dark Force would have STAYED sealed away. Instead, Dark Falz effortlessly rips through the spaceship and breaks free to the surface where he then destorys all of Pioneer 1.. totally bypassing the seal altogether. I tend to think that the Seal was intended more to keep people OUT, than to keep Dark Falz in. You wouldn't need an Esper for that - and it is something that the Earthmen could have concieved of by studying the logs of the AlisaIII and learning more about Algo, it's people, and it's history. However, they didn't have an Esper there to seal it properly - and their knowladge of the Espers would have been scant, even with the AlisaIII's databases. So rather than attempt to seal DF up themselves - they were content to leave him trapped in his Pandora's Box and simply sealed up the opening so that no passer-bys would even accidentally release him again.

That's just my take on things. There's more contradictory evidence.. but in my view.. this theory leaves the least holes and the least unanswered questions, as well as bringing bringing PS:Gaiden a little closer to being a legitimate part of the series with a very important role to play.

[Valleo]

Wow. I tend to agree with you on the point about PSO being connected to the PS games. Yes it may not exactly follow the same path, as its not in Algo itself, but the fact that there are Numen, Meseta and Dark Falz, not to mention the seals and so on to me tie the games in as well.

However I dont think that PSO takes place during the Great Collapse, or any time pre PS4. For one thing, there are simply to many dates to ignore in the game. If you cant find the song I mentioned before with the 3084 date, just take a look at any of the legenday kitanas, Flowens swords, or anything else with a date. That alone should negate a pre PS4 timeline. And I tend to think that Coral is just the name given to Algo in the time that PSO takes place. I could be worng, but to me its what makes the most sense.

I havent played the Gaiden games, so I couldnt be sure, but it seems highly doubtful that Coral is a different place altogether that has no tie ins with Algoian society. Since "Copto" is a Palman colony, I suppose that is a very good possibility as well, but I personally think that the Pioneers came from Motavia.

After all, Palmans are still on Motavia come PS4, and as you said, the planet is about half desert and half green at the time, so it seems likely to me that sometime in the future the Palmans would need to leave. To me the reason why you dont see Motavians, Dezolians, Espers and Musk Cats in PSO is that Sonic Team is lazy. The excuse could be that there was no reason for anyone but the Numans and Humans to leave after Motavia reverted to its desert state. The Motavians have their desert (being a native desert ..people...) the Dezolians have their planet same as it always was, the Espers have their mansion, and the Musk Cats have thier settlement as well.

As for the Numan debate..well weve taked of this before, and I came to the conclusion that its bolth. I think that Numans are bolth created in labs and also born naturally. The reason being that there is simply to big a population to me, to have Numans simply assembly lined in a lab. Someone out there must be procreating. However one cant simply ignore what Sue says about Numen either. But since she seems to be the only Numan concerned with this (or who makes mention of it) it seems to me that it may not be all Numen. Perhaps only those that were created in labs? Again who knows.

I also disagree with your theory that Ragol is Earth, however it would clear up a lot. That Dark Falz could be the remnants of the Dark Force that accompanied the Earthmen to Algo. He may have left it there "just in case". However I still think that the ship was brought there post PS 4 and sealed by Espers, if for no other reason than the images on the Seal themselves. The seal on the ruins name specifically Motavia, Dezoris and Palma. Noone knew that the planets were the seal on the PD until PS4 (except for the PD and the Great Light) so I find it very doubtful that the earthmen sealed up Dark Falz using the Algo solar system's planets as seals, not to mention the esper images. This would have had to happen all around the time of PS 1, before the Earthmen left on their way to Algo. As for the possibility of the Earthmen learning of the seal from the Alissa 3, I find that doubtful as well, seeing as how the World ships left Palma mid PS2, and the people aboard would have had no knowledge of the true nature of the seal either.

[TheTrueJanus]

Wow, I really shouldn't have read this whole topic....now I'm interested in learning the whole story behind the Phantasy Star series and how it may tie in with PSO....I hate being an RPG fanatic @_@

[Kadou]

On 2003-09-16 08:26, Guntz348 wrote:

Since it would take 1000 years, or less because of the loss of Palma, for Dark Force to come back, most people believe that PSO takes place around AU 3000. I don't think I've seen an exact date for it though, but I've read a few pieces that suggest that it takes place around this time and it makes sence. PSIII and IV were around AU 2200, and since the seal is greatly weakened it would stand to reason that Dark Force could get out earlier now.




On 2003-09-16 10:53, Valleo wrote:

As for the date of the game, isnt there a song in the game with a date in it? Something like 3084? Im pretty sure I read that somewhere.



http://www.phantasycard.com/phantasycardonline/article.php?45.255

I think that's Getintothegame's website. Whether it is or not, it's for Ep. 3, but in the first intro it says that Ep. 3 takes place in A.U.W. 3105. Obviously, that means PSO Ep. 1&2 take place in A.U.W. 3084, like somebody already said.

[PABLOparavida]

EP1 is the best!

[Spider]

Man this is interesting, maybe PSO is set before the PS series, and thats why that sword still exists and is somewhat weaker then the ps series version?

[Guntz348]

Good point Kadou, that pretty much answers the date question hehe.

But as for PSO being a direct installment of the PS series, I really don't think it is. I personally look at it as if it was a "what if" of a comic book series. A story that uses the same universe and characters, but has no real baring or impact what so ever on the true story. Like say for example, if Superman turned evil for five issues in a "what if" type series, it would never be mentioned again in the regular series.

Same way the Simpsons kill of several characters several times in each Halloween episode but when the regular show is back on, its never mention again and the character is back to normal. One of the main things that keeps me from thinking it could be a true PS game is this; you can't just be any geek off the street and fight Dark Force, you have to be one the chosen few. Only a few of the people who were destined to fight Dark Force had the power to actually go against him. Sure anyone can pick up a sword and fight, but even with the Elysdeon, do you think Teim would have been able to take out Dark Force in PSII? I highly doubt it. Remeber hunters are nothing more then just free agent bounty hunters really. For the most part, they were all just in it for the money to be made.

While I would love it if the games were truely connected and PSO was meant to be an actual sequal to the PS series, there's just too much conjecture and too many holes left open for it to be linked to it really. This is of course going by the US story of PSO, truth be told I know little if anything about the JP version of the PSO story. If anyone does know any details please feel free to add them http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

I Do agree with Sinue in that the Pioneer ships did not come from Algol. If the government or any one with enough power and money from Algol learned of the powers of Dark Force they would have little need to leave there star system to find it. While Dark Force and the Profound Darkness can project themselves out side to other parts of the universe I don't think the PD can ever actually leave entirely. If this is true, then that would pretty much prove that the Pioneer ships did not come from Algol.

My theory would be that in on Coral, a planet somewhat near the Algol star system, but in no contact with Algol, is the origin of the Pioneer ships. Think of this way, we know the Earthmen found the wreckage of the Alisa III and assimalated its technology and built the Noah. A craft of alien technology that brought them to another part of the galaxy and allowed them to play god there. Since we know it was possible to rebuild the ships it would stand to reason that another race of equal or bit more superior technology could do the same with another Worldship. Unless I'm mistaken there were several Worldships that floated off into space, to a fate unknown to anyone exept the people aboard. My theory would be that one of the world ships floated off into space, and head to Coral. Long before it got there the life support systems failed and the entire crew there died, the ship was left adrift in space. It floated into the reach of the Coralians who most likely did not have the technology for deep space travel but where close to it, or at least very aware of the possibiltys and activly seeking how to do so. The Pioneer II ship looks similar in some ways to these world ships. It has a large dome in the center that is where most of the people live, with sever smaller habbitat rings off to the side. To me it looks like a rebuilt and retrofitted Worldship. The Coralians proably took this ship and used the one large central living area to accomodate all the passengers and perhaps even make it a bit larger. The propulsion systems were relogated behind the living areas and it was given a design that was more of a spaceship as we know it today. Keep in my this is just my theory, just how I interperate the game. That's how a lot of this game is really, very open to interpritation. I like that though, fuels great topics like this one ^_^

I think the newmans in PSO come from scientists using information that was stored on the computers of the Worldship they found and rebuilt. This is assuming that the Coralians did in fact find and rebuild and study a Worldship. It stands to reason that there would be records of what Mother Brain did on the computers of the Worldship, so they could easily find the data and pick up from those experiments. As a matter of fact, we do know that the Worldships do contain the information on newman research. We know this because Seed perfected the technology and created Rika in PSIV. I would be willing to bet that the newmans in PSO come from Coralian scientists that had only the data from a world ship and not the perfect model that Seed made to create the newmans. This would explain why there lifespans may be so unstable. They would still be in the early stages of development and much like Nei could have flaws. This makes the most sence to me, and fits into my theory of the Coralians finding a Worldship, but this would only hold true if that theory is true so theres no real way to know if any of it is right. Unless of course ST decides to tell us exactly how its all related that is.

I've seen the simalarities in the Ragol and Earth but I really don't think it's Earth at all. The wreckage of the Alisa III crashed onto the moon of Earth, not Earth it self. The Earthmen then rebuilt the Alisa III and went back to Algol in the newly created Noah spaceship. Although if Earth was truely doomed and they only needed and used certain parts of the Alisa III to build the Noah, they may have just jetisened the part that contained the Sunken Palace that had DF sealed inside it. This would open up the door to say that maybe the Earthmen were not so bad after all, at least not at first. They doomed there planet but learned from there mistakes, left the piece of the ship they didn't need, the sunken palace on Earth and headed towards Algol. The reason they would go there is because that would be the only place they know had sentient life forms. Earth didn't have deep space travel so its safe to assume it hadn't made first contact and therefore need somewhere to go where they could be sure there was someone else, a liveable planet that they could perhaps immigrate to.

Now heres the part where that could go two ways. Either they were good and just wanted to find a new home and went to algol, once they got there the PD influenced them and corrupted them with DF and aided them in making Mother Brain. This or they created Mother Brain when they got there as a "welcoming gift" but where corrupted by DF/PD before they could actually show it to the people or ask them if they wanted it. The other way it could go is that they took the piece with the sunken palace with them and that's the final dugeon of Noah you fight through. This would make there intentions negative from the get go once they got there. Even still I really don't think that Rogal is Earth. There were no Espers to build the seals there, none on the World ship, and the people on Earth were no Espers. Perhaps Rune and Wren tracked down the Wreckage that the Earthmen abbandoned and sealed it, but I highly doubt all this.

If the Ruins truely are the sunken palace from the Alisa III, I really think it would be more likely just a piece of the craft that was jettosened on some other planet by the Earthmen. Anythings possible really it's all so open to peoples interpritaions that's whats so great about it, yet so frustrating. So many unanswered questions lead to great discussions like this, yet ultimatly we are still left with out concrete answers. Still is fun to wonder about though.

Again though I really don't see PSO as a true PS sequal or story. I think it was more intended to be viewed as a gaiden, or side story. Very much like comics have there "what ifs" and fantasy issues, so does the Phantasy Star universe.

[_Sinue_]

Kadou, you have to be careful with dates. The PS main series itself seems to have a bit of a problem with dates. One example would be the translation from Japaneese PSIII and US PSIII. In the Japaneese version, the Devistation War occured 2,000 years ago. Not only does this push the date of your adventures in PSIII up a Thousand years.. but it cuts off Mayu, Wren, and Siren from having any contact with Orakio. This is the Japaneese version.. the original.. the unedited version. The date of the Devistation War was changed to 1,000 years prior in the US version - putting your Adventures on the AlisaIII at about the same time PSIV was occuring - and solidifying the storyline.

Also, PS's timeline is read as A.W., while PSO's timeline is read as A.U.W. If the Pioneer project really launched from Coral/Copto - it's possible they were living under a different calendar. Expecially since the colony was without contact from their homeworld for an undisclosed period of time. We know from Phantasy Star II that Mother Brain had put severe restrictions on space travel - including any ships which were meant to transport supplies. After MotherBrain had been destoryed, however, space travel could resume - and contact with Copto could be re-established. Even before that time, travel to Copto was probably an extreem rarity - as seen by the lack of a Spaceport on Copto. In a lot of ways, Copto was a very isolated colony.

As for the seal, like I said. It sounds the likely scenario that Espers created it.. except for one tiney fact. It's useless at keeping Dark Force inside. He was never bound by that seal - and it only served to keep other people out and to be a warning for what lay inside. Another thing.. might Espers have at one early time inhabited the AlisaIII unknown to the player and other NPCs? After all, you do find the NEI weapons aboard the AlisaIII. How did they get there, when the last time you saw them was when you used them to defeat Dark Force aboard the Noah? It could be possible that there are several sets of Nei weapons - or that they are a creatable weapon rather than legendary artifacts of which there is only one copy. Maybe Onna can shed some light on this discrepancy, as I'm sure the answer is around - but I'm missing it somewhere.


If the government or any one with enough power and money from Algol learned of the powers of Dark Force they would have little need to leave there star system to find it. While Dark Force and the Profound Darkness can project themselves out side to other parts of the universe I don't think the PD can ever actually leave entirely. If this is true, then that would pretty much prove that the Pioneer ships did not come from Algol.

Well, they would have to seek out a seperate Dark Force if they wanted to harness it's power within their lifetimes. Dark Force is only released once every 1,000 years - and if you're in the middle of the millenial cycle, you have a helluva long wait before the next Falz appears. Obviously a lot can happen in 1,000 years - and I doubt that the Earthmen would have been that patient as to wait it out if they knew they could procure a Dark Falz specimin within the span of only 20 years. And yes, Dark Falz can leave the Algo solar system and, apperantly, travel as far as it wishes away. It's just never had a reason to prior to PSIII. The Profound Darkness can leave, only when the seal is destoryed. Perhaps the Profound Darkness knew of this all along, and placed the Dark Force aboard the AlisaIII in hopes that the events which actually transpired would happen. If Pioneer 3 were to arrive, deem the planet inhospitable due to the disasters and ongoing struggle, Dark Force could possibly assimilate himself onto the ship as a member of it's crew (Much like Dark Force took on the form of Seth in PSIV) and return to Copto - and eventually Algo. There, he would be able to catch the guardians unprepared and wreak havok - possibly destorying yet another planet and freeing the Profound Darkness entirely.

A long shot.. but plausable.


The wreckage of the Alisa III crashed onto the moon of Earth, not Earth it self. The Earthmen then rebuilt the Alisa III and went back to Algol in the newly created Noah spaceship.

That is only one of the endings. PSIII has four distinct endings. The one I believe to be the true ending, as it fits into my theories best, is Aron's ending. There, the Alissa III did not crash, but opened up communications with Earth (London to be exact) and landed safely on the planet's surface.. with survivors. In fact, this may be validated by another point I forgot to mention. Androids would have no real reason to emigrate from Motavia to Copto - as they consume very little natural resources and are naturally resistant to climate changes being that they are machines and not flesh and blood. We know that Wren type androids were being manufactured on Palma at the time of PSII due to Wren's appearance in PSIII aboard the worldship. However, in PSO - even after several hundred years.. the Androids you play look nothing like Wren or Mayu.

This may be attributed to a paradox - as Wren was a survivor of the AlisaIII's landing on Earth. Earthmen could then study him, learn how to build advanced Androids, and bring that information to Algo and incorperate it into MotherBrain, having her produce androids similar to Wren to help in the day to day maintinence of her systems. Copto, however, is outside of Algo's influence from at least shortly after the Earthmen arrived and restricted space travel - to just after Phantasy Star II. Coralians would have no knowladge of these advanced Androids. However, since Copto was colonized shortly after the events of Phantasy Star 1, by none other than Alis Landale (It's nickname is AlisWorld) it's plausable to assume that Hapsby type androids were brough over as well to help with the colonization effort. Advancements on these Hapsby type robots could have eventually lead to Android creations which resemble HUcasts, RAcasts, Ect. These androids, being an raised and nurtured as an intragal part of Coptonian society - would have naturally gone with their biological companions. The only stumbling block in this theory, is (as far as I can remember) there are no Androids in Phantasy Star Gaiden. However, that could be attributed to the lack of them needing to be involved in the plot - or just not being created en-mass at the time the game took place.


I think the newmans in PSO come from scientists using information that was stored on the computers of the Worldship they found and rebuilt.

Hmm.. possibly. I tend to think of the Nei project as not just a "Mother Brain" project.. but something the Humans were contructing as well. I tend to belive that they came to Algo with the sole purpose of taking it over.. and weakening the population of Algo by showering them in luxury was their round-about way of priming the planets for colonization since the Earthmen's numbers were to few to succeed in a full on invasion from the get go.

Numans were created to be the perfect soldiers, combining the intelligence and capabilities of humans with the magical skills and agility of the Musk Cat. You know some Earthlings were involved in the project as the entire reason for Nei splitting from NeiFirst was because of her anger towards her creators and her desire to kill them. I doubt Earthlings would have allowed Motavians to work on the project - as they may eventually discover the true purpose of what they were creating. I also doubt that the secret to Newman creation was proliferated to the point where it would be stored in worldships as distant as a whole other planet. We also know that Motavians (and most likely Palmans as well) were able to interface with MotherBrain's components and systems. After all, the Biosystems lab is under her control - however you're sent to find a Data Recorder so that scientists at the Academy could decypher what was reponsible for the flood of Bio-Monsters recently - and could try to put a stop to it.

SEED, on the other hand, was an autonomous AI subsystem of MotherBrain's.. and could very well have been intragally involved in her Biosystems research. Being as such, he could very well have had access to the Newman project and it's research. After all, he is (was) located in Birth Valley.

[Spider]

Another (small but eh) thing that makes the PSO Ragol seem like earth is when your in the Seabed, when you look out the windows it looks much like under the sea of earth, dolphins and stuff, but they arnt mutated, why would Falze leave them in tact? Is he afraid of water or something.

As for Earthmen playing a major bad role in the early PS series, I dont like it, but it does make sense.

[SpyroDi]

On 2003-09-16 13:51, TheTrueJanus wrote:
Wow, I really shouldn't have read this whole topic....now I'm interested in learning the whole story behind the Phantasy Star series and how it may tie in with PSO....I hate being an RPG fanatic @_@



I'm with ya here...*continues his put-off times by playing PSII*

[Valleo]

I dont think the worldships contained any info on Numen. While Numen are indirectly the Earthlings creation (since Mother Brain created Numen, and the Earthlings created Mother Brain) however since the worldships left mid PS2 and Mother Brain (not the Palmans) was the one to pioneer bio engineering Numen, its pretty doubtful that the world ships had any knowledge of Numan at all. And I dont see any connection between SEED and the world ships either.

Also, while its known that the Profound Darkness needs the seal on his prison to weaken before he can release a Dark Force, and that this only occurs every thousand years, nowhere does it say that Dark Force needs to wait any amount of time before he can release a Dark Falz.

Oh, and about finding the Nei weapons on the Alisa 3. Again, since the Alisa 3 left Palma mid PS2, and Rolf and company had Nei weapons during the end of PS2, I think its safe to say that these were 2 different sets of weapons.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Valleo on 2003-09-17 13:12 ]</font>

[Kadou]

On 2003-09-16 22:41, _Sinue_ wrote:
Kadou, you have to be careful with dates.



All I said was that PSO is confirmed to have taken place in A.U.W. 3084 by ST. I didn't mention other PS games, nor did I say anything about how PSO may take place in the same timeline as the other PS games. I've never even played those games, but I'm still curious about the plot. Threads like this always catch my interest, for some reason, and every time I read one I get an unwholesome urge to go buy both the English and Japanese versions of each PS game.

[Quo]

Just wait. After sonic team gets an ungodly sum of loot, they'll make a different game and release the secret to PSO. It will be a very simple answer like, "42." That's all they'll say and all the loose ends will be tied and everyone will say "Woah," and that'll be the end of it.

[_Sinue_]

Yes, I realize that the Nei Weapons aboard the AlisaIII and the Nei weapons you use in PSII are different. They would have to be, as you don't find the Nei weapons in PSII until after Palma has been destroyed - and the worldships launched.

But this is the thing that gets me. The "Nei" weapons are referred to as legendary weapons - which makes me believe that they are not created, but are artifacts of a time gone by which are connected to the Profound Darkness somehow - and thus, able to defeat him. Perhaps, the Great Light left them behind for the day they would be needed. More likely is that they were created and dispersed throughout the Algo solar system by LE-ROOF and the other guardians, servants of the great light left behind on Ryucross.

Each planet in the Algo solar system spawned life. Motavians, Humans, Dezolians. Each of these races bear the curse of the Profound Darkness.. and in the end, representatives of each race are there for the final battle. The system's populace, as it was intended, came together as a whole to defeat their greatest enemy. Because each planet in the Algo solar system has a sentient native race, it's possible that Nei weapons were dispersed to all three planets for their protectors to use when darkness escaped the seal.

What gets me is, when you arrive on Dezolis and meet with Lutz - he charges you with the task of tracking down and returning to him all the Nei weapons and armor on Dezolis. He then gives you the most extraordinary weapon - the Nei sword. Obviously, the Espers are tied in rather closely with the Nei weapons and their history. They know the power the weapons contain, when no-one else does.

If each planet was blessed with it's own set of Nei weapons - then Palma and Motavia must also have their own sets of Nei weapons and armors. Palma was destroyed however.. yet all the Nei weapons and armor on that planet escape the destruction aboard the AlisaIII. If they were scattered to the four corners of the planet (as they are in Dezolis), then someone obviously must have known their potential - gathered them - and brought them aboard the AlisaIII sometime before Palma was destoryed. That's the only way there could be Nei weapons aboard the worldship.

Since Espers seem to be the only people who know about the weapon's true purpose and power - it seems likely to me that an Esper may have been aboard the AlisaIII. The only stumbling block, is how he survived for so long. Yet, we already know Espers have the technology for Cryosleep - and perhaps know the secrets to increased Longevity. (Lutz is, after all, around 1000 years old at the time of PSII) It's quite possible that after storing the Nei items on the worldship and hiding them, the Esper agent knew they were off-course and went into cryosleep to await the time when the AlisaIII would be recovered by someone - anyone - from the Algo system.

That wasn't the case - as we know from the plot of PSIII, it drifted in space for a millenia until finally entering a black hole and arriving at Earth sometime in the distant past. Were he to be awakened at that time, that would put an Esper on Earth capable of sealing the ruins. However, I doubt just any Esper could create a seal such as what was intended. He may not have had the experience or training to accomplish such a task - and therefore - the seal was faulty and in vain.

Still, it explains the existance of an Esper seal on Ragol - if Ragol is indeed Earth.

[Hrith]

What you're all saying is definitely interesting, but I cannot read a reply more than 20 lines long http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I wanted to ask, since you probably know, where does "MOTAV" come from ?

Peace http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[toxic_420]

MOTAV? as in "prophets of motav" the weapon? its motavia. although, given the spelling of "heart of POUMN", it should really be "prophets of MUUT".

anyway, this topic is interesting and enlightening, so i got my two cents here....

somewhere up there it says how VR temple is similar to falz's obelisk, and may be the very same sunken palace of psIII, then when you speak to elly at the end of VR temple, she says that the temple was designed by a woman to look like some ruined temple back on their homeworld, coral.

my question is this: what planet was the sunken palace on?
badda bing, theres your homeworld.
(if only it was that easy)

[Guntz348]

On 2003-09-18 06:03, toxic_420 wrote:
MOTAV? as in "prophets of motav" the weapon? its motavia. although, given the spelling of "heart of POUMN", it should really be "prophets of MUUT".

anyway, this topic is interesting and enlightening, so i got my two cents here....

somewhere up there it says how VR temple is similar to falz's obelisk, and may be the very same sunken palace of psIII, then when you speak to elly at the end of VR temple, she says that the temple was designed by a woman to look like some ruined temple back on their homeworld, coral.

my question is this: what planet was the sunken palace on?
badda bing, theres your homeworld.
(if only it was that easy)



The Sunken Palace wasn't on any planet. It was on the Worldship the Alisa III. This is one of the giant ships that escaped Palma when it was destroyed.

[Solidus_Snake]

Even though I am highly knowledgable on this topic,these posts are too long and very irritating to read and then jump to a almost totally different massive post. it gets confusing.

[TinyD]

Guys, you are getting so off topic!

Neway, I checked it out by deciphering the Enochian language of the ancients, and 'MUUT DITTS POUMN' is really simple:

'MUUT' = 'Keep'
'DITTS' = 'off'
'POUMN' = 'the grass'

So it turns out the those pillars are nothing more than signs that reminded the ancient inhabitants to keep Ragol looking neat and tidy.

So be good, ppl, okay? And 'Keep Ragol Tidy' - not just for you, but for the good of the whole community.

tx then, and I know you'll do your best http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Tiny D

[Valleo]

Off topic? Relax, the topics question was answered in the first 5 posts. Now the topic has turned into a PS discussion on the tie ins between PSO and the old PS games, which includes the seal on the pillars.

[zimmk2vgc]

On 2003-09-19 08:13, Valleo wrote:
Off topic? Relax, the topics question was answered in the first 5 posts. Now the topic has turned into a PS discussion on the tie ins between PSO and the old PS games, which includes the seal on the pillars.


So what? Its a conversation...they move from topic to topic...........

[Andvaranaut]

The only stumbling block, is how he survived for so long. Yet, we already know Espers have the technology for Cryosleep - and perhaps know the secrets to increased Longevity.

Spending some time recently going back to play PSIII (my fav, incidentally), it could be important to note that a form of cryosleep DID/DOES exist aboard the Alisa III - after all, Laya's younger sister (oddly enough, also named Laya) is happily snoozing the millenia away when you first run into her guardians. Plus, in Aron's story line, you get to go wake her ass up a second time...after twenty-some-odd years have passed, and she appears to not have aged a day. All this could lead one to believe that the elder Laya is the "esper agent" spoken of in a previous post.

However, all this is fine and dandy until you try to explain why the blood feud existed between the "Orakians" and the "Layans". The Orakians KNEW what the Layans were, and oft referred to them as "witches" and "demons of unspeakable power" (which can be verified in NPC conversations), precisely beause of their proficiency with techniques. Pure-blooded Orakians did not have this luxury. This, unfortunately, rules out the notion that an esper was somehow working undetected.

Additionally, it should also be noted that in each of the endings to PSIII, it is stated that the majority of the worldships to flee Palma have been destroyed - either by DF through the Alisa III's weapon system/weather control satellite or by "malfunction". And it is only in ONE of the endings that a second ship - WITH SURVIVORS - is seen...

[_Sinue_]

Yes, several factions in the PS storyline are seen using cryo-sleep chambers. Alis is sleeping in one on Coral in Phantasy Star Gaiden. Lutz is awakended from one in Phantasy Star II upon the arival of Rolf and party. Again, as you mentioned, Laya is seen in one durring PSIII. Cryosleep chambers seem to be a running theme across several ages of PS history, so it's not off the wall to think that an Esper could have used one to stay preserved until the time the Alisa III made a safe landing and he could recover and continue to protect the Nei weapons once landing on Motavia or Dezolis. Unfortunately for the assumed Esper on board, the AlisaIII was never rescued.

I doubt Laya could have been the Esper agent in question. Yes, the Blood War does pose a problem if you see her as so - but there is one important difference between Layans and Espers. Layans were talented with Techs, which Orakians could not use. Espers however, were talented with Magic. There is a distinct difference between magic and techs in the PS series. Some have assumed that Earthmen brought techs with them sometime before PSII, since they don't appear until that time. Noah/Lutz and his espers are some of the few remaining practicioners of Magic in the system.

If there were an Esper aboard the Alisa III, I don't think he would have anything to do with the PSIII storyline. Not to say that there even was an Esper onboard - but it is a means to an end of explaining things. And it sounds a whole helluva lot more believeable than some Rouge Dark Force being sealed away by Rune, Demi, and Wren (rather than defeated, which they'd done with several DF's before without the aid of the Elysdion - so why would this one be any different?) and then hauled away into deep space by the Landale.

[ChokingVictim]

*kicks head repeatedly*


lost my copy of PSIV... hell the only one i have in my possession now is III (scoff).


this thread only serves to remind me what a great f*cking game PS4 was...


bah...must..........download.....rom!

[A2K]

Hmm... there's a whole lot of topic to wade through here, but I'll try and cover everything I can! I actually typed all of this out once, but, er, my password was wrong and it was all erased. Crap. Heh.

Mike's theories are his perspective on the games. I understand that if a person were to play the English localizations of the games and never know of the Japanese games, they could only come up with things like Mike's. I respect that, however, that doesn't mean I agree with them. I think it's wrong, personally, to completely dismiss whatever's on the other side of the fence, so, long story short, I don't agree with him despite acknowledging his words.

http://www.camineet.net/psoimages/uraending-obelisk.jpg

This is the URAENDING credits code image in question, yes? When I first saw that, I saw the white robe, and the Psycho Wand. For me, this was a dead giveaway that this guy was some generation Lutz. Maybe not Rune/Thray, but some form of Lutz, definitely!

Sinue, the answer to your question about the Esper's purpose is simple. They're not there to simply protect Algo from the Profound Darkness--they're there to protect Algo, period. Looking at it that way, you can see that even under the belief that the ultimate evil is destroyed (which, may or may not be true in reality) their mission would continue.

Personally, I don't think the Profound Darkness was destroyed. The battle, for me, just seemed rather anti-climactic. It just happened. Team goes in, team beats up dark goddess, team goes out.

It's funny how you mention that the Elysion in PSO sucks. If any weapon bears similarity to the Elsydeon of PS4 in PSO, it would have to be the Heart of Poumn! In the Dreamcast Ver. 2, anyway, in the quest where you obtain it, the woman mentions things that make it sound very Elsydeon-ish--something about souls... I don't have the exact wording, unfortunately. It's funny how the item description calls it "Alis' Claw" when it has the word "NEI" engraved on to the side of it... anyone notice that? Actually, that's what it was like in Ver. 2, not sure, but they may have changed that for Ep. 1 & 2?

Heh, and Sinue, don't forget that the original Phantasy Star's hero was a heroine, a woman! I like to think of the Profound Darkness' womanly form as more of a... "motherly" thing. The Profound Darkness can be thought of as the progenitor/mother of Dark Force, evil, whatever. Oh, and "Overworks" didn't really develop the games, Overworks didn't actually exist then, you know. The Overworks of today does have many members of the original PS teams, though, most notably Rieko Kodama ("First Lady of RPGs"), who was lead designer for 1, 2, and 4.

Argh... dates are a weird thing. Phantasy Star 4 takes place in AW 2284. Phantasy Star Online Ep. 1 (and 2, I guess) probably takes place AUW 3084, if not sometime around there, anyway. If the After Weiss calendar is in fact equivalent to the AUW calendar, then that would place PSO roughly 800 years after PS4. This is 200 years short of the 1000 year cycle, though...

It's unrelated, but, a thing to note about Phantasy Star 3 is that, according to the original Japanese game, it takes place 2000 years after leaving Palma, while in the English localization it's only 1000 years! Quite a difference... in the context of relating this to PSO it would be wise to go by the original Japanese.

Newmans/Numans... I'm not touching that one with a ten foot pole. I don't think there's enough data to say anything about that, personally!

"The temple Ruins were designed after the archetecture of the Sunken Palace in PSIII." Who's presenting opinion as fact now? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Heh.

What I think, personally, is that the ancient spaceship itself is Noah. After Rolf and company defeated the Earthmen, the ship, more or less, completely disappears from the timeline. I think it's not totally out the question that Noah in fact drifted off and crashed into Ragol. Perhaps there was another Dark Falz loose (with Palma's destruction, more than one getting out is hardly impossible, as evidenced by three Dark Forces appearing in PS4) Lutz sealed that new Falz within, then more or less kicked the boat away from the system.

I find this Earthmen surviving and integrating themselves into Motavian society theory very interesting, but... I don't know, I really could imagine Rolf and company completely annhilating them. If any did escape, then why would subsequent generations care and/or still be evil, being so greatly outnumbered by the native Algo people? A couple thousand years is a long time to hold a grudge and/or lust for power.

I don't think Ragol is Earth. Similiar, maybe... heck, Sonic Team might have even used Earth graphics for Ragol, but... in er, game reality I don't think they're one in the same. Maybe they did that to throw us off, who knows, lol

I like the Coral = Copto thing... but... hmm... it's still a little sketchy right now.

Er... did I get everything? lol

[Hrith]

Hope I'm not making a nuisance of myself.

Where are those names from :
AGNI
DAGON
INDRA
Nelgal
Vajulla
Lafuteria

Cheers http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[A2K]

As far as I know those names are PSO originals.

[_Sinue_]

They're new. No connection to the PS series afaik.

Some other rares though.. like Club of Laconium, have ties to the PS series. Not sure about Zurminium or Adaman, but Laconium is a metal found on Dezolis and is very durable. Laconium weapons tend to be some of the better weapons in the game, which amazed me since the Club of Laconium is so weak.

[A2K]

Oh! That's another thing I forgot to touch on...

There are lots of HINTS that the game is tied to the older ones, Laconium being one of them! In the Dreamcast quest where you can obtain Heart of Poumn, it is said that Laconium smithing is an ancient art that no one actually practices anymore... this would coincide with the fact that people were doing it all the time in the old games!

Newspaper media is also regarded as "ancient history" when Nol mentions it at the beginning of her quest offline. Correct me if I'm wrong but I had heard of a newspaper being in PS2. I haven't gotten that far, though, I really need to go back and finish that game!

The Tinkerbell family was in an online quest in Ver. 2. Heh, they always name their dog Rocky. On the other hand Sonic was in that quest too, so... er... yeah, that would be a weird one.

Finally... cake. Trekka comments on how she read about cakes in her history books... heh, yet, Naura (Naula) cake shops can be found throughout the series!

[Andvaranaut]

Sinue -

There is a distinct difference between magic and techs in the PS series.
With the notable exception of PSIII, where the two terms are used interchangably. This could be due to the fact that the game was designed by an entirely different design team from PS I, II, and IV. In fact, for those of us who remember the press releases and interviews reguarding PSIII when PSIV was released, the producers did their best to discredit PSIII as a Phantasy Star game...by saying it was a schlocky third-party game simply with the PS name.

In reguards to the names "Agni," "Indra," and "Dagon," it should be noted that while they have no real connection to the PS series, they are fairly important (and elementally-aligned) dieties from various religions.

Agni can be found in Hinduism (or correctly, Vedicism - the religion upon which modern Hinduism is based), and is represented as the diety of fire and "the spark of life".

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/agni.html

Indra is also found within Vedicism, but is known as the diety of thunder, lightning, and storms, as well as being the god of war.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/i/indra.html

Dagon, however, can be taken from one of two sources: either Mesopotamian mythology, or a certain infamous text which H.P. Lovecraft used as inspiration for the vast majority of his works. In the former, Dagon is a diety of vegetation, harvest, and the sea - particularly fitting, as he is half-fish. The latter, on the other hand, is a subject I wouldn't touch with a flaming ten-foot-pole...even if it were to push the book unceriamoniously into a blast furnace.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/d/dagon.html

I'm still trying to research "Negal," "Vajullah," and "Lafuteria," but for the time being, I hope this info helps.

Also, www.pantheon.org is a veritable bonanza of information on various mythologies...and a GREAT source for character names, if you ask me! The name in my sig is one that I managed to find after about an hour of random searches on the site - and it's an alternate spelling, no less!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Andvaranaut on 2003-09-22 18:25 ]</font>

[LWK]

I always cornered it with Mute This Poem.
Since that has nothing to do with anything, I cant draw any conclusions.

[Solidus_Snake]

DARK FORCE AND DARK FALZ ARE ONE AND THE SAME! THEY ARE BOTH FROM THE EXACT SAME ENTITY.

[Nohra]

On 2003-09-22 21:04, Solidus_Snake wrote:
DARK FORCE AND DARK FALZ ARE ONE AND THE SAME! THEY ARE BOTH FROM THE EXACT SAME ENTITY.



O.o Dude, chill on the caps, this isn't Vega. X)

[_Sinue_]

Andvaranaut - Which is exactly why I like the theories which connect PSO to the rest of the PS series - even if they aren't actually true. Expecially my theory, because it ties in PSIII (as well as PS Gaiden) as legitimate parts of the PS storyline which are very important in understanding the whole spectrum of events which happen throughout the course of the games. It was tied in before, vaugely, but that was also only fan-ideas - as no where in the series do the designers come out and say "Yes, the Alisa III is what the Earthmen used to glean their new technology from and where they learned about the Algo Solar System". Connecting the Earthmen to the AlisaIII in context to their influence in PSII is only speculation on the part of the fans - because it makes sence.

Remember, in one of the endings, the AlisaIII joins up with two other worldships also from Palma and there is no mention of Earth what-so-ever.

[Spider]

How many endings are there in PS3 and does anyone know them all?

[A2K]

There are four endings to PS3, but, I haven't gotten any of them yet personally. Actually, I heard that two of them are basically the same? Or something. I really have to go back and finish that sometime.

[Valleo]

http://www.phantasy-star.net/psiii/psiii.html

Theres a link to a complete script of PS3, as well as an animated GIF of one of the endings.

Oh and Im pretty sure that Dark Force and Dark Falz are not the same. I think that Dark Falz comes from Dark Force, and Dark Force in turn comes from the Profound Darkness. Correct me if im wrong, but Im starting to get annoyed with people quoting half truths.

[_Sinue_]

I think they are one in the same, and the difference in names just comes from a translation discrepancy. Aside from PSO, the only other time you see a Dark Falz is in PSI. Every other time you see Dark Forces.

It could also be that Dark Falz's and Dark Forces are two seperate beings, but both released by the Profound Darkness. In PS4, when you're wandering through The Edge, you'll run across creatures called something like Dark Profallus, which is a carbon copy of PSI Dark Falz. It could just be that there are different power level teirs of the same creature. Sort of like the difference between Lesser and Greater demons. The first Dark Falz released into the universe was actually summoned through the dimensional gate by La Sheic, but he couldn't find a way to close the gate after releasing it. Hence the 1,000 year cycle of the seal weakening only happening in the last few millenia before the end. It's most likely that the Dark Falz summoned in PSI was a Dark Profallus you'd normally find in the Edge - a spawn of the Profound Darkness, but a lesser one. The Profound Darkness released Dark Forces himself in the subsequent millenia, after noticing that a gate had been opened - thus, the more powerful forms of Dark Force you find later.

For pundits of the "PSO takes place after PSIV" theory, it could be that the Dark Force aboard the AlisaIII lost most of it's power after the Profound Darkness was defeated, but it was still an autonamous being capable of (un)life after it's master had been defeated. This isn't wholly unbelieveable since the Profound Darkness wasn't alway one being, but rather an entire race of spiritual beings who conjeiled into one creature through the billion of years of captivity stewing in their own hatred and need for revenge.

The problem being, that Dark Falz in PSO shows much more power than any previous Dark Falz or even Dark Force. In fact, he's probably the most powerful servant of the Profound Darkness you've ever faced - aside from the Profound Darkness himself.

[Guntz348]

On 2003-09-22 09:39, A2K wrote:


Newspaper media is also regarded as "ancient history" when Nol mentions it at the beginning of her quest offline. Correct me if I'm wrong but I had heard of a newspaper being in PS2. I haven't gotten that far, though, I really need to go back and finish that game!



You find newspapers in the boxes in the Skure Spaceport on Dezo. I forget exactly what they say though. I have a few save files that are on Dezo, and as soon as I dig out the carts and I'll see what they say and post it here. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Spider]

I personally think Dark Falz (the PSO one) is probobly the weakest in the series due to the fact that pretty much anyone can destroy him, and come on, you wouldn't be able to find a dark force/falz in the old PS games with one level 20 character would you?

Although I guess its possible to see normal, hard and veryhard as just training for the real task for the not quite chosen warrior(s)

[_Sinue_]

I tend to look at what he can do, rather than just pure power output. Those numbers change from game to game, depending on how the development team set up the difficulty level. I've yet to see a Dark Force or a Dark Falz/Prophallus engage you with multiple forms or transport you to a completely different area (From the feild, to the screaming face yard, to his elevated ring) such as the PSO Dark Falz does.

Only the Profound Darkness has shown that ability before. You could think of it like this.. the Profound Darkness isn't a singular being - but a collective conciousness of an entire race of spiritual beings. If he sent out a Dark Force or a Dark Falz, which then got sealed away.. and the PD was later defeated, then that Dark Falz could possibly metamorphasize and regenerate into the Profound Darkness itself later on. Hence, the need to evolve and seek out a host body - since that's something new a Dark Falz/Dark Force has never done before.

I used to compair the relationship of Dark Falz/Dark Force to the Profound Darkness in religeous terms - as it's sort of like the link between Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God. They are each seperate entities, but at the same time they are the exact same being. Most people get lost on that, so it may be easier to explain it in Star Trek terms. Think of the Profound Darkness as the hive mind, and as each Dark Force or Dark Falz as a singular Borg. Even though they all have seperate bodies and seperate physices, they are still all one being - the hive mind.

Ok, so that doesn't explain it very well either, but you get the basic jist of what I'm saying right?

[Spider]

After reading those PS3 scripts, it could also be possible (presuming Ragol is Earth) that Pioneer 1 is Alisa III and Pioneer 2 is Neo Palma.
Dunno all the techno stuff, but hey, could happen.

[Olga-Rappy]

Okay... I've played PSI-IV, and PSO v1, v2, and v3; Yet my knowledge on the games is obviously dwarfed by a few of you... as much as I'd like to discuss your theories with you, Sinue, Valleo, Kadou, and everyone else, I feel like I'll just get lost after the first post. If you ever have a debate about the Legend of Zelda games in the off-topic thread or wherever... feel free to let me know. Sinue:PSO::Me:LOZ http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

That still won't stop me from quickly chucking my opinion into the fray: We can't possibly hope to decipher the plot yet, because not enough has been released. Maybe by the game after Card, clearer answers will emerge.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Olga-Rappy on 2003-09-24 02:11 ]</font>

[Valleo]

Firstly, concerning the question of whether PSO takes place post PS4 or post PS2, I submit this. In PS4 when we are introduced to Rika, we are told that she is 1000 or so years in the making. Basically SEED taking up Mother Brains research. I dont see how an entire race could exist pre PS4 (as the Numen exist in PSO) regardless of where the Pioneers came from.

As for the Dark Force/Falz/Phallus thing, in the Japanese version of PS1, Dark Falz was I think named Dark Phallus. I believe that Dark Falz (or Phallus) is actually a spawn of Dark Force, who in turn, is a spawn of the Profound Darkness and that they are in fact all very different beings.

My reason being mainly due to the fact that Dark Falz from PS1 and PSO needs to possess another body to become corporeal, or real. Dark Force does not. And as for the question of whether or not a Dark Falz could still exist after the Dark Force that spawned him is dead, I dont see why not. We already know that Dark Force can exist still after the death of the Profound Darkness. Why should Falz be any different?

[_Sinue_]

Valleo, I think we already covered most of that a ways back. About the Numans we did anyhow.

Concerning Dark Falz & Dark Force, he didn't actually possess anyone in PS1 to my knowladge. He manipulated La Sheic, but he was in his own form when he did that. You fight him after going to see the Govener of Motabia, and you release him from a Pandora's Box. Either way, Dark Force may be very capable of possessing people as well. Depends on how you see Seth in PSIV. Was a creation of Dark Force, or was he a real archeologist at one time who was possessed by Dark Force?

As for if Dark Force or Dark Falz can exist without the Profound Darkness - I agree that it's possible, but what purpose would one serve? They're not offsping.. they are servants. What good is a servant without a master? They are created and released with the sole purpose of destorying the seal and releasing the Profound Darkness.. but if he's destoryed.. what is their purpose? Would they continue to go on destorying out of pure spite or would they seek to ressurect that dark conciousness again somehow?

[Valleo]

From what I understood, Lassic gave in to the Profound Darkness of his own free will...sort of. He wanted to become immortal and allowed his obsession with it to overcome his judgement. Since the espers would not help him discover the secret to immortality, he turned to the "aliens" and their "god" for help. In return they promised him immortatlity, and gave him his armor which corrupted him completely. Thats just how I remember it, but it has been quite a while since I played it.

Also, I was under the impression that in PS1, Dark Falz had possesed the body of the governer, as after you defeat him, the Governer says something to that effect, that he was possesed body and soul, or something. To me it sounds similar to Rico in PSO. Perhaps its just in the way I interpreted it.


As for the whole PD/DF/DF thing, I think offsring (for lack of a better word) is how I would put it. I dont see Dark Force as an extension of the Profound Darkness, but rather as something it puts out to do its bidding, servants if you like, as you said. Then you ask what purpose the servants have after the master is dead.

Well.... I always wondered whether or not the Dark Force that went back in time through the Black Hole (with the Alissa 3) could attempt a change of history. Or perhaps a Dark Force/Falz now could attempt a trip through a black hole, and effectively through time. Originally that is what I thought PS5 would be, rather than them having the PD just coming back to life, perhaps set in an earlier time, pre PS4 or even pre PS2.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Valleo on 2003-09-24 11:14 ]</font>

[_Sinue_]

La Sheic did give into the darkness of his own free will. Well, I'm sure the Armor had a bit to do with it as well.. but he was naturally weak and easily corrupted by the promise of absolute power and immortality. Even though his thoughts were twisted and formed by the dark influence, he was never actually possessed or inhabited by Dark Falz. He reminds of Zio from PSIV - except that Zio was granted more powers by his dark god than La Sheic was. (Even though La Sheic was given his armor which did give him eternal life and quite a bit of power of his own - unlike Zio who Dark Force just let die)

The Governer of Motabia was a slightly different story. No, you don't fight him - but he does trap you in a dungeon under his Palace, and that's where you fight Dark Falz. He also wasn't possessed, but he speaks of a Dark Influence over his thoughts which will him to act. Neither Dark Force or Dark Falz need to possess someone to manipulate them - they can do it naturally and unintrusively by simply willing these people to do their bidding.

In PSO, that's the first time you actually see a Dark Force or Dark Falz "Consume" a person out of the need to evolve or become corperal. Dark Force does it in PSIV with Seth, but that only as a ruse used to destory your party from the inside and get the Aero Prism (as well as learn the location of Ryucross). But, like I said, it's never clarified weither or not Seth was a real person at one time, or if he was just a construct of Dark Force.

As for a prequel to the PS series, I don't really think it's necessary to send a Dark Force or Dark Falz back in time.. but I think it may entail something like this. The beginning of the millenial cycle which releases Dark Forces/Dark Falzs began with La Sheic preforming the ritual to open the door between dimensions. He could never close that door afterwards - not that he necesarrily wanted to. What if someone many millenia ago also learned the secrets of opening the dimensional gateway - and what would the story be like of the heros who were set out to close it? The Profound Darkness, and the Algo solar system, have been around for a billion years. That's a lot of pre-PS1 storytelling time to take advantage of. As long as they find a way to re-close the door and give it enough time between the end of that game and the start of PS1, then it all still works. Expecially if the same Aliens are actively trying to release the Profound Darkness - La Sheic could have just been their latest (and only successful) attempt.

[MAGusZ87]

i didnt feel like reading the rest of the posts, but someone mentioned a guy who might be Flowen and Dark Falz's Obelisk. I've seen him too: he looks like a FOmar in a white robe, so I don't think he(or she, might not be a FOmar) could be Flowen. About the psycho wand, i couldn't tell if the white-robed person had it or not, especially since i don't have one of my own and have only seen in it on this site in the weapon index. At first I thought it was my character, since he is a FOmar and i had just beat the game with him, but he has the black and teal costume not a white one

[A2K]

I believe if you have Seth in your party and return to Piata in PS4, Hahn (or was it Dr. Holt or the Principal?) will say that he does not recognize him. It's a reasonable conjecture to say based on that that Seth was in fact, not a possessed human but rather Dark Force incognito.

[Andvaranaut]

Which is exactly why I like the theories which connect PSO to the rest of the PS series - even if they aren't actually true. Expecially my theory, because it ties in PSIII (as well as PS Gaiden) as legitimate parts of the PS storyline which are very important in understanding the whole spectrum of events which happen throughout the course of the games.

Of course, there is always the idea that the Phantasy Star universe is a "resetting" one, with vague elements in each one giving clues as to what the next will be like. Or perhaps they're simply parallel universes. Considering geographical alterations/inversions/inconsistincies and the way Dark Falz, Dark Force, and the Profound Darkness are depicted differently in each of the games, this might not be as much of a stretch as some of the MANY other theories out there...which makes me wonder if someone over at Sega/Sonic Team is monitoring our babbling, laughing all the way to the bank...

Having never played PS Gaiden - plus being a die-hard fan of PSIII (due to freakish looks/name coincidences between myself and a certain member of the third generation) - has left me prefering the "PSI > PSII > PSIV > PSIII > (back to PSII) & PSO" timeline.

On another, but similar, topic - the names "Negal," "Vajullah," and "Lafuteria"...after about an hour of going through various mythological databases and search engines, I have found the following:

1) "Negal" pretty much seems to simply be a last name and/or a guitar manufactuer's brand name.

2) "Vajullah" came up with squat - just a made up name w/ no RL counterpart.

3) "Lafuteria" also had no RL counterpart, and is a ST creation.

[_Sinue_]

Have you tried mis-spellings of the words? I've noticed that some western words are altered to fit into the Japaneese language better. Then when re-translated back into English, there tends to be slight errors if the people on the translation team don't know the original source and they go for a streight romanization.

Perhaps Negal was intended to mean "Nergal", the Sumerian god of war?

[Spider]

No one seems to have a problem with my Pioneer 1 and 2 being Alisa3 and Neopalma, wowies!

[A2K]

Er... Neo Palma and Alisa III's journeys took hundreds of years. An NPC in front of the Principal's office in PSO says the Pioneers' trips only took two.

[Andvaranaut]

On 2003-09-24 20:04, _Sinue_ wrote:
Have you tried mis-spellings of the words? I've noticed that some western words are altered to fit into the Japaneese language better. Then when re-translated back into English, there tends to be slight errors if the people on the translation team don't know the original source and they go for a streight romanization.

Perhaps Negal was intended to mean "Nergal", the Sumerian god of war?



Oh, in that case...

"Negal" could potentially be one of the three following:

1) Nergal, as Sinue mentioned, the Sumerian god of war.

2) Nurgle, one of the "olden ones" H.P. Lovecraft took from that still-to-remain-unnamed-text (also a Greater Daemon in the Warhammer & Warhammer 40k, by Games Workshop).

3) Nagel - an adult Wemic (a ficticious creature, brought to the RPGing world by Disney...er, Hasbro...er, Wizards of the Coast...formerly TSR).

"Vajullah" only had one remotely feasable find: a mistranslation of "Valhalla". "Lafuteria," on the other hand, could be easily derived from latin phrases...but which one? "Poisoned Earth?" "Corrupted Blood?"

A humourous note: on a whim - plus knowing that Japanese traditionally has no "L" sounds - I looked up "rafute" to find out that it's a mildly spicy pork dish.

Learn something every day, I guess.

[Spider]

On 2003-09-25 11:46, A2K wrote:
Er... Neo Palma and Alisa III's journeys took hundreds of years. An NPC in front of the Principal's office in PSO says the Pioneers' trips only took two.



Where does it say they took houndreds of years? They are indeed 2 ships heading to a planet thats three planets from the star of the system, so sounds pretty reasonable to me, even so there may be conversion changes or translation errors.

[A2K]

Well, the evidence is obvious, I think. The people onboard the Alisa III were there so long that they actually forgot about their Algo roots and reverted back to a medieval way of life. It was 1000 years before the first generation that Orakio and Laya clashed against Dark Force the first time (and in the Japanese game, at least, THAT event was 1000 years after they left PALMA)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2003-09-25 21:01 ]</font>

[ProAX]

So its fairly safe to assume that Sega lied by saying that PSO was seperate from the rest of the series, (in fairness, i guess it different in some respects, namely the gameplay).
Also, it is possiable that the SEED mentioned in earlier games may be related to the SEED in PSU.
By the way, that white FOmar from the ending looks strangly familier to Calus from the East Tower quest in PSO plus. could Calus be an Esper?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ProAX on 2006-06-21 20:49 ]</font>

[Ailleurs]

What a bump! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

To avoid warnings from mods and whatnot ProAX don't bump topics more than 2 weeks old http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Dana]

O_o let alone one from 3 years ago.

Bumping is not allowed unless in the trade forum

[Nitro Vordex]

On 2003-09-14 18:25, ilr2000 wrote:
ironically I've seen this too.. about five minutes ago. I accidentally went into the portal at the end of offline darkfalz and had to let the credits roll. When I glanced at the screen midway through I noticed all the pics are totally different. (some of them pretty damn interesting). The very last pic showed the Falz tower, but I couldn't make out who was standing at the foot of it. Now that I think of it, it mighta been Flowen.




If you look at the person at the tower, it is a FOmarl. I haven't the slightest clue as to who it is though. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Dhylec]

Please do not reply to topics that have been inactive for more than a few weeks.