DC: Preserve PSO DC by making a server? [Archive]

AzureBlaze

Oct 2, 2003, 12:10 AM

I think this is an intregueing possibility!
But how exactly could something like this be done? I mean..a whole server, surely this would be really difficult?

I guess the interest of it for me would be how it was implemented. I mean, if the server could host DC PSO V2 (and somehow disable that pay to play option?) and not just V1, I might be tempted to take a look...I mean, kicking around with the old spread needle again (I'm a HUcast)or BAing in the old-school style with friends. (yeah when magic wasn't an A-bomb like it is now)

I guess one of the things that would be considered is who would know about it to come there? PSO is fun because of all the people on it, would this server be a secret, or require some kind of advertising to popularize it?

Surely though, anyone who was left over on DC PSO would like to have it, if they stuck it out that long already. Although, I didn't get to visit it in the end, so I don't know how populated it was when it went down. It might be fun to do, but I'm not sure it would be worth the amount of effort--although that is why this pole is here. To gague if it's worth it.

Also: could anyone get in trouble for doing this/playing on it?

Barubary6

Oct 2, 2003, 12:16 AM

Well, it's not whether the server should be made. It already is here, and it already works. The problem is whether it should be released and made public.

It is compatible with DC v1 and v2 in all regions, and yes, it does disable pay-to-play. There is nothing illegal about that, because you are not trespassing on Sega's servers.

The unanswered question is whether the server itself is legal. You might be away of the bnetd program, which is the same type of server clone for battle.net. They got sued >_<

-- Barubary

[ This Message was edited by: Barubary6 on 2003-10-01 22:17 ]

Duelle

Oct 2, 2003, 12:27 AM

Well, Barubary, I would gladly show up and support this server if it were around. I've been playing PSO DC off and on for the last three years. Like veryone else asked, will it be V2 compatible has been asked but, would any of the online content be there from either version(quests) or just hunting? I don't mind hunting and I'll take what I can get.

Would it be safer to bring my character on there than on the normal servers? Like I said, I'll take what I can get, but a yes would rally plenty of support, I'm sure.

There were a lot of sad people online who would love to be able to be keep playing. There were plenty of open games on Oberon 01 that I wasn't having any trouble finding a place to go on Tuesday night. No one got hacked(to my knowledge) until this morning.

Some more info would be great.
-Leedon, Duelle, Natasha, Korin

(It finally went down, btw, between 10pm and 1am EST)

Jack

Oct 2, 2003, 02:48 AM

When you say "clone", does that mean they took the server software from the official servers? If it's a homebrew thing, I can't see any problems with it.

SabZero

Oct 2, 2003, 08:29 AM

That would be grand! I'd even buy a broadband adapter for that then (gave up on it, because V1 doesn't even suport it (?) and it seems to be nearing end-of-life from Sega's point of view)

*crosses fingers*

Android8968

Oct 2, 2003, 10:03 AM

I canceled my Dail up ISP after the DC server went down, now im not paying for another one nor a broadband adapter. Is this PSO PC compatible? I swear I wont harm anyone I just want somewhere to be with my old DC friends.

Rain_1

Oct 2, 2003, 10:28 AM

HELL YES crosses my mind...

specially if it works on pc version...
it's just easier than turning my dc on and plugging the cord to teh computer and doing all the "asnwer without dial tone" trick..

not counting i only have ver1 for dc..
so yes, i'd like that very much

rena-ko

Oct 2, 2003, 10:51 AM

hm... crossplaying DC and PC versions would be really nice. both versions are infested by dupes and hacks already, so the security shouldnt matter.

its afaik illegal when you copied code from copyrighted software...
(so hosting downloadable quests would be illegal)

does it need a patch on the console-side?

anyway, good luck. its a very good idea.

Gradius

Oct 2, 2003, 11:25 AM

Would it be 1 server, set up by you (or someone else)? Or software so others could set up their own? If it was the latter it would be harder for any one person to get into trouble for it being released. But, I also don't know how this works so...

Also would quests, challenge, battle, etc. be available?

Jazhara

Oct 2, 2003, 11:25 AM

Careful Barubary, as I'm sure you know this probably won't go down to well at SEGA.

I work in the industry, want me to go ask our lawyers about this?

They're games specialists, so they'll know if it's legal, not legal or no precedent set (and therefore will be down the Judge in the court at the time).

EDIT - I think it's a good idea btw. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Jazhara on 2003-10-02 09:29 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Jazhara on 2003-10-02 09:33 ]

Benzine

Oct 2, 2003, 12:14 PM

Well, I think it'd be cool to have some of the old-timers to have a place to still play and hang out. If it's a profitless venture then you would think that Sega would have no problems with it... but they're in the business to make money and this *could* be a threat to their profitability by providing an older service for free that will inhibit most from upgrading to an existing system to play and pay there.

I see it two ways. ID released the Quake2 engine sourcecode after it reached its end-of-life. Then, as previously stated, there was bnetd and they got sued (DMCA, I think). The difference was that QII was ending its lifetime and bnet is still going strong today.

Has anyone thought to ask Sega how they feel about the venture? Maybe you could contract with Sega to provide the private servers and support. Granted, not bloody likely but still worth the shot.

Jaz, if you get the time to ask the lawyers it'd be interesting to see what they'd have to say about it.

-bz

saffaya

Oct 2, 2003, 12:52 PM

I'm a 100% for an alternate PSO server.

As for sueing fears, they are twofolds I guess.

One is for writing the program.
Well, it's not like it has your digital imprint on it. It can be released without you claiming being the author.

Second is for using it.
Servers can be run in countries unlikely to comply to a Us judge order.

Maybe I'm missing some points as I don't know the requirements/limitations of the server program.

LollipopLolita

Oct 2, 2003, 01:13 PM

there is already a private dc pso server running for people to play on.

Reenee

Oct 2, 2003, 02:04 PM

All I want to know is, where do I go change my settings to get in with this thing?

BrokenHope

Oct 2, 2003, 02:33 PM

It just requires changing your DNS settings, nothing major.

Para

Oct 2, 2003, 02:52 PM

Ehehe Barubary...
Well I would be careful...
But since SEGA won't support their own game I don't see why not but SEGA would try to find a way to gain back the money they lost.

Gradius

Oct 2, 2003, 05:21 PM

On 2003-10-02 11:13, LollipopLolita wrote:
there is already a private dc pso server running for people to play on.

???

Para

Oct 2, 2003, 06:04 PM

On 2003-10-02 11:13, LollipopLolita wrote:
there is already a private dc pso server running for people to play on.

i think i know...

Android8968

Oct 2, 2003, 08:18 PM

Well ifs it not baburays server tell me.
And about the cheating thing barburay has the power to ban you. You need to give him your serial # and access key for his server to accept it. If you cause chaos he will removed your access key and BAM! Access Deined.

Link00seven

Oct 2, 2003, 08:37 PM

I PMed him asking about this lol. Little did I know there was a topic about it.

I think it's a kick ass idea, I mean, PSO Version 1 & 2 started the whole deal, and even I, who plays EpI&II, still play Ver2 just for fun.

If you can do it without getting in trouble, go for it!!

dj_dan

Oct 2, 2003, 09:13 PM

Since I have no idea how these things work, I wonder...
if it's possible to make your own private server, is it possible to dictate how the game operates?

I mean, could you change things so that every Hidelt would instead spawn as a Hildetorr, every Ob Lily a Mil Lily etc? I don't know if the game works that way, but it sure would give new meaning to "Ultimate Mode".

Oh and by the way, I would definitely dust off the ol' DC and play ver2 again if this would become open to a few people. Really fun idea.

Dhylec

Oct 2, 2003, 11:27 PM

On 2003-10-02 19:13, dj_dan wrote:
I mean, could you change things so that every Hidelt would instead spawn as a Hildetorr, every Ob Lily a Mil Lily etc? I don't know if the game works that way, but it sure would give new meaning to "Ultimate Mode".

heh, maybe baru should be able to do something about that.. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

priv. server sounds great! but i cant get my dc online http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

A2K

Oct 3, 2003, 02:16 AM

I guess it's cool, but... people should really be moving on to the newer versions of the game, IMO.

Duelle

Oct 3, 2003, 09:19 AM

A2K :
I guess it's cool, but... people should really be moving on to the newer versions of the game, IMO.

True, but some of us are more attached to our DC characters then the game itself. I've remade my HUnny only once, that's when I stopped playing the JP version I shouldn't have had and got the US version when it came out so I can go online. That character has been around forever and I really don't feel like starting over after spending more than 660 hours on her over the course of 3 years. Besides, buying a new system for only one game doesn't seem smart.

-Duelle

HUnewearl_Meira

Oct 3, 2003, 11:27 AM

On 2003-10-03 00:16, A2K wrote:
I guess it's cool, but... people should really be moving on to the newer versions of the game, IMO.

How about those like myself who have already moved on, but would gladly play the good ol' DCv2 online as well, if it were convenient? (Heck... I have personally purchased 5 copies of v2, 2 copies of v1, and 4 copies of Episodes I&II, complete with GameCube for each! Blah!)

M_BlackHawk

Oct 3, 2003, 11:40 AM

I'd be more than willing to play on a private DC server. I don't have a gamecube or xbox, and I'm still stuck on a dialup connection. I do, however, still have my DC and v2. Therefore..where do I sign up?

later

M_BlackHawk

BTW: Barubary, I need you to email me at [email protected]. I wish I could say more, but I just need to ask you a question.

Eviltar

Oct 4, 2003, 01:50 AM

On 2003-10-02 19:13, dj_dan wrote:
Since I have no idea how these things work, I wonder...
if it's possible to make your own private server, is it possible to dictate how the game operates?

I mean, could you change things so that every Hidelt would instead spawn as a Hildetorr, every Ob Lily a Mil Lily etc? I don't know if the game works that way, but it sure would give new meaning to "Ultimate Mode".
I don't think that you could specifically make enemies spawn as rare enemies all of the time; I believe that is part of the PSO code itself. However, with people possibly making their own homebrew quests, there is a lot of other kinds of control that server hosts could exhibit. You might see quests like "Forest Filled with Hildebears", "Caves Filled with Lillies", or "Hopkins Gives You a Free Heaven Punisher". http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Barubary6: You certainly have a tough decision to make. You compare your server to Bnetd, however I think your program is actually closer to server emulators for games like Everquest, Ultima Online, and Ragnarok Online. It may be valuable to look into how those server emulators have so far fared legally.

I don't believe that you should really find that much trouble for this particular server, especialy since the DC PSO servers have been shutdown (at least in the US and Japan. Not in Europe?). However, that may not be true if Sega somehow believes that your technology could somehow be extended to also work with the Gamecube and Xbox versions.

BTW, did you suceed in downloading the DC online quests? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

rena-ko

Oct 4, 2003, 08:06 AM

theyre down in japan?

i got told they are still up in europe and japan. well... time for loggin on a last time i guess ^-^

hm... isnt there a way to log onto the EU DNS-server with an US copy of the game? or is the HL setting directly on disk?

for quests... hm... i think hosting code to play on is soso ok, but hosting download quests made by sonic team (c-mode or battle stages, download quests, online quests...) might be definitely illegal.

how about asking sega to look away? might help...
other than that, they might sue you anytime for driving off customers from the actual version or any other official reason.

Eviltar

Oct 4, 2003, 09:51 AM

On 2003-10-04 06:06, rena-ko wrote:
theyre down in japan?

i got told they are still up in europe and japan. well... time for loggin on a last time i guess ^-^

hm... isnt there a way to log onto the EU DNS-server with an US copy of the game? or is the HL setting directly on disk?
Er, uh, I dunno. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

SabZero

Oct 4, 2003, 10:53 AM

how about asking sega to look away? might help...
other than that, they might sue you anytime for driving off customers from the actual version or any other official reason.

Asking Sega would be probably a good idea. I don't think you would steal business form them, if you only allow DC/PC. Besides, a private run server wouldn't (probably) have the bandwidth to really place a threat to them.

Again, asking Sega is the thing to do before going public. Just make sure you clearly state your "business" http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif and don't leave any details out. Best thing might be to talk to their marketing section first, since they are the most concerned with the fans (they fear bad reputation and negative marketing).

Para

Oct 4, 2003, 03:37 PM

PC servers are not down in Japan.

ilr2000

Oct 4, 2003, 05:47 PM

I thought a 3rd party server should have been developed back when it was still the big thing. It would be controlled by a smaller group who could actually enforce the rules.

ilr2000

Oct 4, 2003, 06:05 PM

On 2003-10-02 18:18, Android8968 wrote:
Well ifs it not baburays server tell me.
And about the cheating thing barburay has the power to ban you. You need to give him your serial # and access key for his server to accept it. If you cause chaos he will removed your access key and BAM! Access Deined.

Wait.. i could be way off on this but wasn't Barburay the guy who developed some of the most lethal codes for DC PSO? Wasn't he the originator for basically every code that f**ked over someon's character?

If I'm remembering right then boy is THIS ironic that he has a server where he enforces some sort of order.

Android8968

Oct 4, 2003, 06:55 PM

baburay is a staff member of ccgmsc.com or something like that

punkrazza

Oct 4, 2003, 08:33 PM

is it possible that Barubary could make it so gamecube and dreamcast can both play on this server? If so would he?

_Sinue_

Oct 4, 2003, 11:58 PM

I doubt theres any way to allow both DC and NGC to play on the same servers due to the extra characters and costumes that are not present in the DC versions - along with some of the weapons that have had their stats tweaked or items (like state/maintinence and Hit Mats) which were taken out of the NGC version.

Also, Baru wasn't responsible for all the nasty codes out on the DC. He made alot of non-offencive codes like Walk Thru Walls, Item Creation, Inf HP, Inf Items, Bank Bypass, ect. It was other people who modified his codes which caused nearly all the trouble. NOL was a varryiant on Baru's Bank Bypass code for example.

punkrazza

Oct 5, 2003, 12:16 AM

True but on ep. 3 you can bring chars into the ep 1 and 2 servers and show them off...like bring the chick on the cover in to vega...you can do that when the game comes out...therefor it shouldnt matter unless segas is programed to do that...i know that the playing in games with dc and gc wont happen im just talking about lobbys

AquaFlare7

Oct 5, 2003, 12:24 AM

due to the major differences in the programming, the only way I see any of this happening is possibly having like the above mentioned, a global lobby. But even then things have to be changed in the coding because speach is read differently from v1+2 to ep1+2.

punkrazza

Oct 5, 2003, 12:31 AM

i guess we can just wait and watch Barubarys magic happen! (dot dot dot)

Balbarei

Oct 5, 2003, 03:39 AM

yeah go for it http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

punkrazza

Oct 5, 2003, 12:05 PM

I wonder if Barubary is keep this one for awhile...from what ive heard like a year ago she had one up and going and then somone said somthing and she just vanished...I dont think that sega will really care if they got caught. were just playing the game ^_^

Para

Oct 5, 2003, 02:10 PM

On 2003-10-04 16:05, ilr2000 wrote:

On 2003-10-02 18:18, Android8968 wrote:
Well ifs it not baburays server tell me.
And about the cheating thing barburay has the power to ban you. You need to give him your serial # and access key for his server to accept it. If you cause chaos he will removed your access key and BAM! Access Deined.

Wait.. i could be way off on this but wasn't Barburay the guy who developed some of the most lethal codes for DC PSO? Wasn't he the originator for basically every code that f**ked over someon's character?

If I'm remembering right then boy is THIS ironic that he has a server where he enforces some sort of order.

Barubary was never responsible for these codes which caused all this chaos on DC. Barubary is very strict on cheating and hacking when it comes to gaming issues like NOL or any other exploit.
As for the so called Barubary's server, even if there is one, im sure she would have protection to stop people from cheating and using exploits.

Temjin-On

Oct 5, 2003, 02:33 PM

I need to get on this private server at all costs! I wont cheat, i hjate cheating! I just want to play on my DC chars for a change, I love my GC PSO people but I loved DC soo much, So its for this that I make a passionate plea to make the private server public, and Id even pay to get on with my DC, please it means the world to me!

punkrazza

Oct 5, 2003, 04:59 PM

Does anyone talk with Barubary...like on aim or somthing? And how long will this take? Has Barubary started or somthing?

ilr2000

Oct 5, 2003, 06:12 PM

she? oh, my bad...

I PMed her and no response. Could just be blowing me off... wouldn't be surprised either.

punkrazza

Oct 5, 2003, 06:17 PM

Well on the profile of Barubary it says Female...i thought that she was a he but she might be a she or maybe a he? Who cares? Might be blowing you off...i PMed (him/her) too and well who knows?

primer567

Oct 5, 2003, 11:02 PM

Barubary Asdfsan

Getintothegame

Oct 5, 2003, 11:20 PM

I say yes, but...
How would someone connect to the server?

Also, In an earlier post, didn't you mention this server could conncet with Episode 3 and Episode 1 and 2, as well?

[ This Message was edited by: Getintothegame on 2003-10-05 21:23 ]

_Sinue_

Oct 6, 2003, 12:28 AM

No, unfortunately it wouldn't be possible to bring Ep 1 & 2 characters into a DC game. Maybe with the exception of having something online change your character into something the DC has data for. A HUcaseal or HUcast with one of the new outfits, for example, would show up as looking like Kireek - or default to the corrosponding costume in the top row.

Still, I highly doubt it's possible. Too much has been tweaked that Sega didn't account for to allow compatablity. The DC simply wouldn't know how to handle the data requests it's recieving. You may be able to take Ep III characters into Ep II lobbies - but they use either textures or character models present in Ep II. Sega, after all, knew they were going to make an Ep III and most likely added any information your GameCube would need to process the new content on your game disk - even if you cannot access it from Ep II.

Sega originally planned to make the NGC version compatable with the DC versions - but rampant cheating on the DC changed that. Because of that decision, we now have 3 new character classes - tons of extra costumes - and lots of new features tweaked into the gameplay making for a much more well balanced game.

inferno10

Oct 6, 2003, 12:51 AM

I wish Sega would make it easy for us and just have a link to the JP or EU servers. That way US players still have an option.

primer567

Oct 6, 2003, 06:57 AM

EpI&II, DC, and PC are all compatible even with EpII lobbies. EpII characters just show up as invisible.

punkrazza

Oct 6, 2003, 04:25 PM

Anyone heard any updates on the server? I wonder how long the jp. servers are going to be up...anyone know?

SuperSubZero

Oct 6, 2003, 06:06 PM

Boy, some things never change. The last time I visited these forums months ago, Baru claimed to have a gamecube private server in development, which apparently never saw the light of day. Now the same claim is being made.

I know I may seem skeptical, but I'll believe it when I see it. But of course pages of discussion have now been generated, keeping the rumor mill going full speed.

punkrazza

Oct 6, 2003, 06:36 PM

Well barubary never really said that this server was going to be made up front...so who really knows if its comming...

Velocity_7

Oct 6, 2003, 08:07 PM

On 2003-10-06 04:57, primer567 wrote:
EpI&II, DC, and PC are all compatible even with EpII lobbies. EpII characters just show up as invisible.

One could always configure a server to do translation for characters. Something like make a FOMar look like a FOmarl, for example. Why translation? Because data packets between DC and GC are simply incompatible. Period.

punkrazza

Oct 6, 2003, 09:40 PM

uh-huh. Well soon enough pso ep. 3 is going to be comming and more then likely only so many people will swich over to that. In the final version of ep.3 you CAN bring one of the CARD people over to the lobbies of 1&2, which isnt in 1&2 only 3 and wont be invisible. So perhaps the lobbies could be combined if worked at it enough correct?

SuperSubZero

Oct 6, 2003, 11:57 PM

On 2003-10-06 16:36, punkrazza wrote:
Well barubary never really said that this server was going to be made up front...so who really knows if its comming...

Baru said on page 1:
Well, it's not whether the server should be made. It already is here, and it already works. The problem is whether it should be released and made public.

It is compatible with DC v1 and v2 in all regions, and yes, it does disable pay-to-play. There is nothing illegal about that, because you are not trespassing on Sega's servers.

What?

Barubary6

Oct 7, 2003, 12:09 AM

On 2003-10-06 18:07, Velocity_7 wrote:
One could always configure a server to do translation for characters. Something like make a FOMar look like a FOmarl, for example. Why translation? Because data packets between DC and GC are simply incompatible. Period.

My server does exactly this for lobby compatibility. I really think team compatibility is far too difficult to be worthwhile.

To Version 2 users, the new classes appear as the special costume reserved for editors of Famitsu - cheaters named this costume the "ninja". The "ninja" looks like a cross between a gray FOmar and Palpatine.

Version 1 clients don't have these special costumes, so I have to improvise. HUcaseal->RAcaseal, RAmarl->HUnewearl, FOmar->HUmar. (These are also the classes Version 2 clients see as the "real" or "underlying" class of the ninja.)

As for the extended costumes in Version 3, I made a chart of the closest matches in my opinion of new costumes to old costumes. Version 1 and 2 users see these costumes instead. The same goes for the extended hairstyles of the male non-android classes.

Some people have asked me how I managed to make Version 3 and Version 2 be in the same lobby. Well, Version 3 seeing Version 1/2 is the tricky part, because the Z coordinate (zero, as I said above) places you inside the floor in Version 3 lobbies. I handle this by making users climb up the steps automatically (there is a simple trick to fool the client into doing this for me.)

-- Barubary

Reenee

Oct 7, 2003, 12:28 AM

How much bandwith are we talking about here, if, say, we only allowed members here from PSOW to enter these servers?

SuperSubZero

Oct 7, 2003, 03:13 AM

I can't see PSO's lobbies needing all that much bandwidth when people are in games. I'd personally be more interested in having a small group of friends to play than to run some kind of huge server. Of course, I could do that too, but I have my (not-to-be-named) MMORPG I am hosting.. one thing at a time.

Jack

Oct 7, 2003, 09:04 AM

On 2003-10-06 22:09, Barubary6 wrote:
Some people have asked me how I managed to make Version 3 and Version 2 be in the same lobby. Well, Version 3 seeing Version 1/2 is the tricky part, because the Z coordinate (zero, as I said above) places you inside the floor in Version 3 lobbies. I handle this by making users climb up the steps automatically (there is a simple trick to fool the client into doing this for me.)

-- Barubary

Would it not be easier to default it to send everyone to one of the football lobbies? No such co-ordinate problems would exist there, at least for V2/PC users.

colicab

Oct 7, 2003, 12:02 PM

Hmm i have a spair server.. as follows

======

CPU : 1Ghz AMD Athlon
RAM : 512mb DDR
Running : Redhat 8 , Cpanel Latest Stable release
Web server : Apache 1.27
Apps : Mysql Php Perl etc all latest rpms
Hdd : 40 Gb Western digital (25gb free)
Bandwidth : 700gb transfer pmonth

======

Gimme shout if u need it or wanna get another server going.. to test i dunno, but its there if u need it http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

punkrazza

Oct 7, 2003, 04:22 PM

Barubary...Have you started this server yet? If so how far is it in to completelion? In the final version what all will you have done for different versions? What versions can and cannot enter this server?

Suppa_Buddha

Oct 7, 2003, 05:13 PM

If it gets up and runnin' I'll play. Its just that I need to find a BBA.

Raventy

Oct 7, 2003, 05:20 PM

Hey Barubary, Havent heard of this project in a while... Have you actualy gotten your server to work with creatures, items, and all? If so did you do it by creating some big database which your server reads/writes to? or did you find some way to extract creature, item, ect info from a single player game into a db? Or did you find a whole nother way to get creatures and the rest to work without requireing a db and all? I would be more than happy to let you use one of my servers to test/full-time run a PSO server if you wish. Specs for the serv would be: Althon XP 2100+, 512MB HYPERX PC2700 MEM, 40GB HD, windows server 2003 and of corse it would be a dedicated pc.. not some retarded pc that other retards use for non-server purposes but a dedicated server. It has SQL installed and can have anything else if needed. About your legal concerns I would say this: Either A.) Distribute the server and source under some GPL to anyone who wants to run their own server. This way its not one secluded server which sega would have to deal with but rather many others. and/or B.) Their are many other server Emu's out their such as EQEMU( Everquest Server Emulator) which are MMORPGS that are even more popular than PSO and they dont seem to have legal issues. But More than likely if sega had a problem with your server project they would contact you saying to shut it down before filling a lawsuit or anything against you and if they did, then you could just simply end the project. I also would reccomend that if you do deside to launch this project that you make it only DC compatible since the DC servers are down no longer making money (unlike the GC and XBOX ones) so sega probably wont care as much if not at all.

Android8968

Oct 7, 2003, 06:53 PM

Look at that! 84 people want the server!
About cheating, barburay will you be able to ban cheaters?

punkrazza

Oct 7, 2003, 09:30 PM

Umm its not exactly cheating...its more like playing the actual game for free...not cheating...get it?? Ill pretty much play on any server other then segas...but the trick is finding them and letting me on. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Android8968

Oct 8, 2003, 06:57 PM

baburay so many people wnat to get on this server why dont you ever reply?

punkrazza

Oct 8, 2003, 07:12 PM

I think that alot of people might want that anwsered but they think that if they post it he wont let them on his server...I am also curious about that too.

Velocity_7

Oct 8, 2003, 07:19 PM

Because she's in college and has better things to do than just simply please the massses?

The game is mostly client-side, so monsters and everything as such is not really handled by the server. In fact, the entire system Sonic Team has created is simply a matchmaking server, where people meet, make games, do things, etc. Barely any bandwidth is involved except for in-between characters.

Not sure how Episode 1 & 2 PC will be handled, since it has server-side saving...means a lot more bandwidth may be needed, and probably hard drive space too. ^_^;;;

punkrazza

Oct 8, 2003, 08:36 PM

I wonder what her career goal is. Im guess computer programer due to the fact of how much she knows about codeing and all.

Jazhara

Oct 9, 2003, 12:15 PM

Got hold of one of the lawyers here (finally). Please be aware this is not in any way binding, and in no way admissable in any court of law. This is simply an informal OPINION, not fact, from a professional game industry lawyer.

And, as always with lawyers, they answer with questions. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

-----------------------------------

Given that the client connecting to this server will not be modifying game code, it's very unlikely anyone playing on this server will be liable for prosecution. While you're probably in breach of software law, it's unlikely any action would be taken.

As is probably obvious, the main risk is for the person running the server. If Barubary will charge to play on the server, it almost certainly illegal and highly likely to result in prosecution.

If the server is free to play on, the picture is less clear. By reverse engineering / decompiling PSO a person is in breach of the laws under which software is sold to them. However, if they are not making commercial profit, simply providing a service for existing software, then it is less severe. Given SEGA have taken down the US DC servers, there is no direct competition for their pay-to-play servers.

The main issue SEGA may have with this is v2 players that might otherwise move to the GC / XBox versions (or Ep.III) will be playing on this server, hence they lose profit.

Also, another key concern is the profile, use and image of their IP (Intellectual Property). For example, if Barubary allowed major nasty hacks and cheating as standard, that could damage people's perception / opinion of PSO and would damage SEGA's brand.

Conclusion... Ask Sonic Team / SEGA.

There are enough good reasons for them to block / prevent this server, the only people who know how they will react are SEGA themselves.

----------------------------------

Sorry this isn't of more help, but games law (and legal issues in general) is rarely clear-cut.

Anyway, hope this helps a little, and good luck...

Jaz

*EDIT* - Forgot to say - this lawyer has not read the exact details of the EULA (End User License Agreement), and hence anything relvant in that may modify this postition.

[ This Message was edited by: Jazhara on 2003-10-09 10:21 ]

saffaya

Oct 9, 2003, 12:33 PM

I would like to thank for your time talking to your company's lawyer. I'd like to comment some points, please do not take them as offensive.

On 2003-10-09 10:15, Jazhara wrote:
By reverse engineering / decompiling PSO a person is in breach of the laws under which software is sold to them.

That point depends on the country you live in (or server resides).
Reverse engineering is perfectly legal in Europe (for now).

The main issue SEGA may have with this is v2 players that might otherwise move to the GC / XBox versions (or Ep.III) will be playing on this server, hence they lose profit.

That point is highly debatable. Forcing hardware upgrades on customers is not very defendable.

Also, another key concern is the profile, use and image of their IP (Intellectual Property). For example, if Barubary allowed major nasty hacks and cheating as standard, that could damage people's perception / opinion of PSO and would damage SEGA's brand.

Excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing at this one ^_^.
Just thinking at everything that was running wild under SEGA's running the servers (PK, CK, NOL ...) makes a threshold so low it will be difficult to do worse ^_^.

[ This Message was edited by: saffaya on 2003-10-09 10:35 ]

punkrazza

Oct 9, 2003, 04:11 PM

I dont really think that this will stop Barubary if thats what your trying to do...but then again maybe it might.

Drayma

Oct 9, 2003, 04:42 PM

If barb asks Sega then Sega has to repsond. Remember Millenium G200? They were using DC linux kits that I'm sure Sega knew about.

Link00seven

Oct 9, 2003, 08:29 PM

hmmm.

It's a toss up about if its legal or not. I'd say go on with it, but, the best would be for barubary to ask.

Reenee

Oct 9, 2003, 09:45 PM

If Barubary can patch all of the cheating, I'll gladly play. I'll send 'im...a roll of quarters...10 bucks!

SuperSubZero

Oct 10, 2003, 01:11 AM

On 2003-10-08 16:57, Android8968 wrote:
baburay so many people wnat to get on this server why dont you ever reply?

This is normal procedure. Once the rumor ball is rolling, all they have to do is sit back and watch it roll. I don't believe there is, was, or will be any private server for PSO. As long as other people believe it, this person will pop their head in every so often, fan the flames a little, and then vanish.

FLEABttn

Oct 10, 2003, 03:44 AM

On 2003-10-09 23:11, SuperSubZero wrote:

On 2003-10-08 16:57, Android8968 wrote:
baburay so many people wnat to get on this server why dont you ever reply?

This is normal procedure. Once the rumor ball is rolling, all they have to do is sit back and watch it roll. I don't believe there is, was, or will be any private server for PSO. As long as other people believe it, this person will pop their head in every so often, fan the flames a little, and then vanish.

It exists. I tried it. However, it was about a year ago when I did, and at that time it was very new. So new all it could do was set up a ship and lobby to go into. You could walk around and talk, but that was the extent. You couldn't create games. That and you needed a code breaker to access the server.

It was kinda cool though. There I was with my Japanese v2 accessing a server not done by SEGA, with Barubary accessing it and talking to me in it through the PC version.

Jazhara

Oct 10, 2003, 04:05 AM

No offence taken! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif To clarify your points:

On 2003-10-09 10:33, saffaya wrote:
I would like to thank for your time talking to your company's lawyer. I'd like to comment some points, please do not take them as offensive.

On 2003-10-09 10:15, Jazhara wrote:
By reverse engineering / decompiling PSO a person is in breach of the laws under which software is sold to them.

That point depends on the country you live in (or server resides).
Reverse engineering is perfectly legal in Europe (for now).

Lol, you don't have to tell me! The company I work for reverse engineered the NES to make a cheat system. Back in the day 'o course... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

It's illegal in the US AFAIK though, and Japan - which is what matters after all.

The main issue SEGA may have with this is v2 players that might otherwise move to the GC / XBox versions (or Ep.III) will be playing on this server, hence they lose profit.

That point is highly debatable. Forcing hardware upgrades on customers is not very defendable.

I'm not suggesting this would be used as justification for server closure in a court of law - simply this may be a factor in SEGA's decision to pursue the case.

Also, another key concern is the profile, use and image of their IP (Intellectual Property). For example, if Barubary allowed major nasty hacks and cheating as standard, that could damage people's perception / opinion of PSO and would damage SEGA's brand.

Excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing at this one ^_^.
Just thinking at everything that was running wild under SEGA's running the servers (PK, CK, NOL ...) makes a threshold so low it will be difficult to do worse ^_^.

It's fine to make comments like this on a forum - but regardless of the state of SEGA's DC servers, the fact remains the game belongs to them. I doubt they see it as you do! If they think this server will be bad for their game, they will want to shut it down.

Hence the need to speak to SEGA.

[ This Message was edited by: Jazhara on 2003-10-10 04:12 ]

CrimsonII2

Oct 10, 2003, 04:25 AM

well, I haven't read every post, but I agree, definitely, for one it means that I could get online with some people that currently can't play online (I know at least one person who lives in australia, and is still stuck without ep 1&2, and I'm sure that he would be happy to hear about a server to play the DC with again)

edit: I don't think there should be much of a problem legally, even here in the states, it doesn't make sense for sega to worry about it since they've abandoned the dreamcast

[ This Message was edited by: CrimsonII2 on 2003-10-10 02:48 ]

SuperSubZero

Oct 10, 2003, 06:15 AM

On 2003-10-10 01:44, FLEABttn wrote:
It exists. I tried it. However, it was about a year ago when I did, and at that time it was very new. So new all it could do was set up a ship and lobby to go into. You could walk around and talk, but that was the extent. You couldn't create games. That and you needed a code breaker to access the server.

It was kinda cool though. There I was with my Japanese v2 accessing a server not done by SEGA, with Barubary accessing it and talking to me in it through the PC version.

The problem with this is it got absolutely no attention outside of you telling me now. Part of the rumor involves someone (with 8 posts) saying OH YEAH I WAS THERE coupled with all kinds of deficiencies (it didn't work right, couldn't do this or that etc). No, I don't buy it.

I can think of MMORPG's with private servers that shouldn't which have attracted considerably more attention. Heck in at least one of those cases they outright STOLE the server code. Yet it's easy to get and set up these illegal servers. Even *I* could do it. And I do.

I find it highly unlikely that there's only one person in the entire world who is capable of making a private server for PSO. I find it even less likely that all this time would go by without even the slightest mention anywhere about such a thing.

HUnewearl_Meira

Oct 10, 2003, 11:26 AM

On 2003-10-10 04:15, SuperSubZero wrote:

The problem with this is it got absolutely no attention outside of you telling me now. Part of the rumor involves someone (with 8 posts) saying OH YEAH I WAS THERE coupled with all kinds of deficiencies (it didn't work right, couldn't do this or that etc). No, I don't buy it.

I can think of MMORPG's with private servers that shouldn't which have attracted considerably more attention. Heck in at least one of those cases they outright STOLE the server code. Yet it's easy to get and set up these illegal servers. Even *I* could do it. And I do.

I find it highly unlikely that there's only one person in the entire world who is capable of making a private server for PSO. I find it even less likely that all this time would go by without even the slightest mention anywhere about such a thing.

Barubary has been talking about this sort of thing for quite some time now, actually. After all of the impossible screen shots she's supplied us with (Rico, Flowen, Elly, Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, all in a holiday lobby, etc), I don't see any reason to be confused over this. The concept of a PSO server is quite simple. Any programmer with a moderate knowledge of Winsock can create a server program for anything, provided they have some manner of documentation on the protocols to be used (I, myself, have made an e-mail client in Visual Basic-- not very hard at all). We already know that Barubary has cracked the encryption algorythm that PSO uses, and furthermore, you might remember the RAcaseal that, for a time, was sitting in lobbies, effectively banning people who used FSOD hacks. Just take a look in PSOW's news archives for evidence of that.
I mean really... The connectivity issue for PSO is rather simple. A simple proxy program on the internet connection's host could route the Dreamcast/GameCube/XBox/PC to the server, and the server encrypts outgoing packets, and decrypts incoming packets... We're not talking about anything absurdly complex. If I had the time and resources (mostly documentation on encryption methods and something to pick up data passed around the network), I, myself, could slap together a server program. I've talked to Barubary about it, as well, though she's declined to share her knowledge with me.

So, effectively, it's not that no one else CAN make a PSO server, it's only that no one else HAS made a PSO server. Like I said, given time and resources, even I could make a PSO server.

FLEABttn

Oct 10, 2003, 01:18 PM

On 2003-10-10 04:15, SuperSubZero wrote:

On 2003-10-10 01:44, FLEABttn wrote:
It exists. I tried it. However, it was about a year ago when I did, and at that time it was very new. So new all it could do was set up a ship and lobby to go into. You could walk around and talk, but that was the extent. You couldn't create games. That and you needed a code breaker to access the server.

It was kinda cool though. There I was with my Japanese v2 accessing a server not done by SEGA, with Barubary accessing it and talking to me in it through the PC version.

The problem with this is it got absolutely no attention outside of you telling me now. Part of the rumor involves someone (with 8 posts) saying OH YEAH I WAS THERE coupled with all kinds of deficiencies (it didn't work right, couldn't do this or that etc). No, I don't buy it.

I can think of MMORPG's with private servers that shouldn't which have attracted considerably more attention. Heck in at least one of those cases they outright STOLE the server code. Yet it's easy to get and set up these illegal servers. Even *I* could do it. And I do.

I find it highly unlikely that there's only one person in the entire world who is capable of making a private server for PSO. I find it even less likely that all this time would go by without even the slightest mention anywhere about such a thing.

I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm just saying it exists.

SuperSubZero

Oct 10, 2003, 02:54 PM

On 2003-10-10 09:26, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Alot of stuff

I honestly do not believe that person nor you have sufficient knowledge, resources, or time, to single-handedly make a PSO server. Everytime that person comes in here and hints at the fact they have such a thing, it riles people up, gets a thread with a few pages of ME TOO's and then they vanish.

I also like how screenshots are always the scapegoat. Screenshots prove everything. While I have my doubts that this person can make a private server, I do not have doubts that they are somewhat skilled in plugging random values into a cheat device and exploring the results. If those results include warping themselves to an offline lobby, all the better. How many of their screenshots show other people in the lobby with them and all these generated NPC's?

Seeing is believing. I think people are just seeing what they want to believe, and what they are being led to believe.

HUnewearl_Meira

Oct 10, 2003, 03:20 PM

On 2003-10-10 12:54, SuperSubZero wrote:

I honestly do not believe that person nor you have sufficient knowledge, resources, or time, to single-handedly make a PSO server. Everytime that person comes in here and hints at the fact they have such a thing, it riles people up, gets a thread with a few pages of ME TOO's and then they vanish.

I also like how screenshots are always the scapegoat. Screenshots prove everything. While I have my doubts that this person can make a private server, I do not have doubts that they are somewhat skilled in plugging random values into a cheat device and exploring the results. If those results include warping themselves to an offline lobby, all the better. How many of their screenshots show other people in the lobby with them and all these generated NPC's?

Seeing is believing. I think people are just seeing what they want to believe, and what they are being led to believe.

Here (http://www.pso-world.com/article.php?sid=642) is widely-witnessed evidence that the encryption has been cracked, and the protocols documented. That's the most difficult part. The Millenium bot requires direct understanding and manipulation of protocols. It's a client version of the software, homemade, running on a PC. If a client version can be made by a user, then a server version isn't a stretch of the imagination at all.

Mystil

Oct 10, 2003, 03:45 PM

Well this is a suprize. You people really want to hold on to PSODC huh? As much I want to FORGET the monstrosity of memories I've had from that game, I can't help but admire you peoples devotion to that version.

Hey, hell go for it *votes*. Get yourselves on that private server. I'm sure Sonic Team wont say anything either(or even sue), as they allowed the version itself to stay alive on thier servers for the length of time that it was.

CrimsonII2

Oct 11, 2003, 12:00 AM

well, I'll agree that it was cracked, heck I saw millenium a few times, and it was funny when I saw people try to talk to her,not to mention I saw when she reported something once, and from what I saw the user got disconnected or something, because after reporting it, the game that she mentioned suddenly disappeared from the list of games to join, twas quite interesting indeed, also if you recall barubary mentioned that her server is compatible with every version of pso right now, excluding xbox pso

Android8968

Oct 11, 2003, 06:52 PM

Anyway back on topic.
And Is it possible to bring millenium to the GC and Xbox? That would be great!

SuperSubZero

Oct 11, 2003, 11:59 PM

On 2003-10-10 13:20, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Here (http://www.pso-world.com/article.php?sid=642) is widely-witnessed evidence that the encryption has been cracked, and the protocols documented.

I remember this. I also remember:

1. Only one person "knows" about the bot and it's maker. That person.. is responsible for this multi-page thread too!

2. According to them, it only knows Japanese. How convenient. So even if you saw a "L200 black RAcaseal sitting in the lobby" you can't make it do anything unless you know the specific JAPANESE commands.

3. Evidence of the "bot" actually doing anything is very suspect and vague. I'm sure since it could join multiple lobbies at once, someone must have various screenshots of it performing it's tasks. Where are those shots? Maybe I missed them.

Again, something only one person really knows anything about.

punkrazza

Oct 12, 2003, 11:59 AM

Let the server commence... Man i really didnt notice how much i would miss pso dc untill I actually cant play online anymore... Ahh those memories...

Velocity_7

Oct 12, 2003, 12:50 PM

On 2003-10-11 16:52, Android8968 wrote:
Anyway back on topic.
And Is it possible to bring millenium to the GC and Xbox? That would be great!

If that were the case, barubary6 would have a lawsuit on her hands. SEGA and Sonic Team are still making money from both systems. Dreamcast is good enough.

HUnewearl_Meira

Oct 12, 2003, 01:28 PM

On 2003-10-11 21:59, SuperSubZero wrote:

I remember this. I also remember:

1. Only one person "knows" about the bot and it's maker. That person.. is responsible for this multi-page thread too!

2. According to them, it only knows Japanese. How convenient. So even if you saw a "L200 black RAcaseal sitting in the lobby" you can't make it do anything unless you know the specific JAPANESE commands.

3. Evidence of the "bot" actually doing anything is very suspect and vague. I'm sure since it could join multiple lobbies at once, someone must have various screenshots of it performing it's tasks. Where are those shots? Maybe I missed them.

Again, something only one person really knows anything about.

The specific abilities of the bot are beside the point. The point is that A.) Someone has been able to run a program using Sonic Team's encryption and protocols, and B.) A great number of people have witnessed this program in action.

Niroku

Oct 12, 2003, 03:12 PM

Lets see tis server go up I really miss Ver.1 and .2 (mostly 1) but I still think it would be awesome.

Millennium I seen that thing before it was just a Promotion Millennium G200 was a computer componet.

SuperSubZero

Oct 12, 2003, 06:17 PM

On 2003-10-12 11:28, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
B.) A great number of people have witnessed this program in action.

A great number of people have seen UFO's too.

punkrazza

Oct 12, 2003, 08:38 PM

I have witnessed santa in my youngen days... but they the pillows came out and it was only grandpa... umm well its like only 4 or 6 people who dont belive that this server is going to go threw...and the rest do. Pretty good more then i would imagian

CrimsonII2

Oct 12, 2003, 10:34 PM

so you're trying to say that millenium didn't exist SuperSub?? if I had known how to make a sceenshot back then, I would've definitely made one, also I'm pretty sure that I saw screenshots of her here a while back, but I could be wrong, also I can tell you that a whole lobby of people saw her, so unless we were all hallucinating then your wrong, not to mention that one time while I was in a lobby where people were trying to talk to her, I was mailing someone else who was in a different server, and they said that she was there as well, if I recall right it was one of the EU servers that the other person was at, we were just having fun seeing where all we could spot her at at the time, so we were lobby hopping looking for her, twas a lot of fun just to look for that lil black racaseal

Gradius

Oct 12, 2003, 10:38 PM

Yeah I took some screens of Millenium, but... they were deleted with the rest of my PSO screens when I decided I wasn't going to play this game anymore... >_<;

SuperSubZero

Oct 13, 2003, 04:54 AM

If she could appear in multiple lobbies at once, it must have not been hard to spot her.

Like I said, a L200 black Racaseal is one thing. Seeing it perform any kind of function in an obvious way (ie. "someone logged out, they must have been banned!" - no) is a whole 'nother thing. A character standing in a lobby is nothing to be amazed at.

Drayma

Oct 13, 2003, 05:54 AM

I've seen Millenium G200 in action. 3 people switched positions. If you hit the lobby right whent they switch you see from another character's viewpoint, meaning they had the capacity to watch as you play.

HUnewearl_Meira

Oct 13, 2003, 09:41 AM

A great number of people have seen UFO's too.

And they usually turn out to be something. Planes, helicopters, experimental aircraft, heck, in one case, it was even the reflection of a street light off of the sky. The point is people saw it, and it wasn't made by Sonic Team.

Android8968

Oct 13, 2003, 09:47 PM

Could we get back on topic?

SuperSubZero

Oct 13, 2003, 10:28 PM

On 2003-10-13 07:41, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
And they usually turn out to be something. Planes, helicopters, experimental aircraft, heck, in one case, it was even the reflection of a street light off of the sky. The point is people saw it, and it wasn't made by Sonic Team.

Like I said twice so far, a L200 black RAcaseal in a lobby is NOT a bot and NOT special. My point is people see things that they want to believe is something special but isn't. You.. reasserted that.

Android8968 said..
Could we get back on topic?

What topic? Whimsical rumors of fantasy private servers? There's no topic there. The voting poll has plenty of input in it now. If that person really intends to prove they have some kind of server ready, that poll clearly shows people want to see it. So.. where is it?

CrimsonII2

Oct 13, 2003, 11:47 PM

well, how about this one, once while I was one of the lobbies she was in, she named off a player's exact whereabouts, lobby, game name, and so on, and what action the player had taken (which happened to have been a pk), and it didn't come across as how text normally comes off in pso, it went across the screen in one of those white boxes, like it does when your in a quest or something, also it wasn't hard to spot her, just that we were trying to see how many times and places we could spot her being on at the sametime, and if you don't believe the private server is real, or even that millenium was a bot, then why bother posting in here?

SuperSubZero

Oct 14, 2003, 08:31 AM

So this bot would say something. It was something you could see, and something you could substantiate. It wasn't simply the bot saying some random information and making it look authentic? Or maybe someone was feeding it manually with already known information. How the text looked doesn't matter. Codes existed to make text boxes enormous and bend every rule associated with them.

The reason I am posting here, is because I think watching you all jump and bark like dogs when a piece of meat is waved over their head is quite revolting. Like I said, the people have spoken. If there's no server (and more importantly, server code) available in a month or two months or six months, I hope you remember that I told you so. If I'm wrong, hey, private server. I'd run one.

Reenee

Oct 14, 2003, 10:24 AM

Hey, I saw an interview of the bot's creator, and I knew the person who interviewed Millenium, so it's very well authentic. The bot did its job.

SuperSubZero

Oct 14, 2003, 09:54 PM

I dont even know why Millenium was pulled into this. Regardless of if it's an actual bot and what it can and can't do, it certainly isn't a private server and doesn't prove a server exists or can exist. I still don't see anyone posting links to downloadable exe's to make a server happen.

anwserman

Oct 15, 2003, 12:56 AM

Somebody stated pictures?

I'm into VB programming, and I'm just interested in screenshots. I play PSO on the X-Box online so I have no interest to play on my DC (plus I don't have dialup) but it still seems interesting.

Somebody stated there were some? I'd be really cool to post some! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

colicab

Oct 15, 2003, 05:01 AM

ok well theres no exes as this thread is about if barbury should release a 3rd party server.. not to mention the actual server program.

tank1

Oct 15, 2003, 09:20 AM

dude this server justs goes on but a 3rd party online server would be cool.

HUnewearl_Meira

Oct 15, 2003, 10:31 AM

On 2003-10-14 19:54, SuperSubZero wrote:
I dont even know why Millenium was pulled into this. Regardless of if it's an actual bot and what it can and can't do, it certainly isn't a private server and doesn't prove a server exists or can exist. I still don't see anyone posting links to downloadable exe's to make a server happen.

Again, Millenium's existence proves that PSO's service protocols have been manipulated by home-built programs. That means that someone made what can be considered a PSO client. If a client can be made, then a server isn't much more difficult.

Furthermore, do you even know the first thing about server/client software programing? Do you have the vaguest clue what Winsock is? Do you understand the intricacies of a TCP/IP connection or UDP service? Can you list so much as 3 standard port numbers and their purposes? If not, then you obviously don't begin to know enough to determine that it's not possible to program a PSO server.

[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2003-10-15 08:36 ]

NodMan

Oct 15, 2003, 01:42 PM

I deffinatly want to play VER.2 online again!

colicab

Oct 15, 2003, 05:02 PM

hmm well lemme see port 80 is one .... now for 2 more lol.

Its not a case of re-writting segas server software but more a case of documenting its behaviour and then creating an app which will mimick it.. basically your trying to emulate the pso server.

However things like documentation of the port numbers, server loads, suggested hardware, and of course things like service apps.

Its all very well barbury being able to run a server but without a stable release and the ability to run it on multi platforms both Win32 and Linux (Unix) then its not likely that anyone but the utmost pros like barbury abd of course sega are gonna be able to run pso standalone servers.

I assume barbury that you have a working admin panel? Some sort of remote access exe to be able to control the server servcies? maybe an in built one i dunno but these are thing people should think about before jumping on the wagon and saying "Hey lemme run it"

And of course the legal issues, are u taking funds away from sega? are u allowed to emulate what is there hard work? is it ok to run a 3rd party service? are sega still eligible to provide support? do sega mind the de-privatisation of there services?

Just my 2 cents

punkrazza

Oct 15, 2003, 07:50 PM

SO anyone actually know what this server is going to have in the end? Whats all the stuff in the server and what systems and so on...? ive tryed to PM Barubary about it and still waiting paciently for an reply. Anyone actually know much about the server. Mainly speaking of those who personally know Barubary online that will spill the diliio yo...!

SuperSubZero

Oct 16, 2003, 12:38 AM

On 2003-10-15 08:31, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Furthermore, do you even know the first thing about server/client software programing? Do you have the vaguest clue what Winsock is? Do you understand the intricacies of a TCP/IP connection or UDP service? Can you list so much as 3 standard port numbers and their purposes? If not, then you obviously don't begin to know enough to determine that it's not possible to program a PSO server.

I don't recall saying it was impossible. I just don't think this topic will lead to one being released, because I don't believe one exists.

Heck, Ragnarok Online has more than one server emulation project showing varied success as functional servers. These however, are not a case of 1 person bragging they can make it happen and then it doesn't happen. These servers exist, are downloadable, and are usable. They are also quite blatant. In fact, they stick 'em right up on sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/royare/).

I'm not about to dispute the idea that someone can make a server. That's a given. I just don't think the topic starter would be the one to do it. I also think with this much time passing without one (heck, PSO DC V2 USA isn't even online anymore), I don't see anyone nosing thru a programming manual trying to figure it out at this late stage. The data on my VMU's will fade long before my characters go online anywhere again.

The last part of your argument (the port numbers thing) seemed to be little more than a personal attack, which I will ignore. I'm not a programmer, but I do work in the networking field.

HUnewearl_Meira

Oct 16, 2003, 11:29 AM

On 2003-10-15 22:38, SuperSubZero wrote:

I don't recall saying it was impossible. I just don't think this topic will lead to one being released, because I don't believe one exists.

Heck, Ragnarok Online has more than one server emulation project showing varied success as functional servers. These however, are not a case of 1 person bragging they can make it happen and then it doesn't happen. These servers exist, are downloadable, and are usable. They are also quite blatant. In fact, they stick 'em right up on sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/royare/).

I'm not about to dispute the idea that someone can make a server. That's a given. I just don't think the topic starter would be the one to do it. I also think with this much time passing without one (heck, PSO DC V2 USA isn't even online anymore), I don't see anyone nosing thru a programming manual trying to figure it out at this late stage. The data on my VMU's will fade long before my characters go online anywhere again.

The last part of your argument (the port numbers thing) seemed to be little more than a personal attack, which I will ignore. I'm not a programmer, but I do work in the networking field.

Simply making the point that your argument thus far hasn't seemed to be based on any sort of knowledge in the area, and has even denied that an individual may have the sort of knowledge necessary. You've stated that if there were a functioning private server, it would've made bigger waves. This is not necessarily true. A programmer wanting to keep a project under wraps will keep it under wraps (provided they're not like Valve and get hacked o_O). This is why we haven't seen alpha versions of Episode III or the PC version of Episodes I&II running around on the net.
I see no reason to dispute that Barubary may indeed have made a semi-functional PSO Server, as Barubary has indeed shown sufficient expertice in the fields in question. Furthermore, I recall talk relating to the idea of a PSO server LONG before this topic ever came up. I also recieved word of said server being functional several weeks prior to this topic starting, when I personally asked Barubary if she'd share her information with me, so that I could make my own (I still have the PM in my inbox, in fact). Suffice it to say that we're talking about a project that began quite some time ago, not sometime within the last few weeks.

Velocity_7

Oct 16, 2003, 08:49 PM

It's funny how you people consider this a hot topic of debate.

If you believe it's there, it is. If you don't believe it's there, it's not. You decide.

punkrazza

Oct 16, 2003, 09:51 PM

Exactly! Im not trying to argue or anything with the belivers or not. I my self dont know if it is really there or not. I hope its comming cause i wanna play pso dc again or gc without paying (nothin works anymore). Im suprised that they havent locked this or warned us. I look at some topics and theres no "BROKEN" rules as they say there are.

SabZero

Oct 17, 2003, 08:47 AM

Arg, I 'm just sick of the discussion. If you have a server to be public, TELL. So I know if spending money on a BBA for my DC is worth it. Sheesh!

StryderPSO

Oct 17, 2003, 08:47 PM

yeah i would love to hear from baru on some news about waht hes gonna do and how hes gonna do it

Barubary6

Oct 18, 2003, 01:29 AM

A server program exists already - what I haven't decided is what to do with it >_<

-- Barubary

SabZero

Oct 18, 2003, 07:40 AM

Wee! A reply form the mighty *bows.

Well, can it be used to play in a LAN (DC and PC or only PC)? That would be cool too.

Hmm, what do you think about OpenSource? (just an idea)

Cheers!

punkrazza

Oct 18, 2003, 10:47 AM

Finally a reply... Not much of an update on anything really... Now the "NEW" argument is going to start over the same stuff again... my bet is that it will be another week atleast till Barubary replies again. Lets hope that im wrong.

Barubary6

Oct 18, 2003, 02:04 PM

On 2003-10-18 08:47, punkrazza wrote:
Finally a reply... Not much of an update on anything really... Now the "NEW" argument is going to start over the same stuff again... my bet is that it will be another week atleast till Barubary replies again. Lets hope that im wrong.

You're probably right, except about the last part >_<

-- Barubary

punkrazza

Oct 18, 2003, 11:29 PM

Yeah guess not... Will you tell anyone whats going on with the server or when its going to be done or will it?

saffaya

Oct 20, 2003, 01:13 PM

On 2003-10-17 23:29, Barubary6 wrote:
A server program exists already - what I haven't decided is what to do with it >_<

The numbers of the poll on this thread says clearly there is a demand for a PSO DC server program.
So that's a point answered already.

What are the cons you are thinking about Barubary ?
If you do not share these with us, we cannot discuss or help any more.

Maybe you fear that this server could be abused to cause trouble on the Sega GC servers ?
Is that the real reason behind your indecision ?

If not, I can't see what worries you. Please share your thoughts.

heyf00L

Oct 20, 2003, 01:27 PM

A con might be bandwidth. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

masterwang

Oct 20, 2003, 02:00 PM

What are the cons you are thinking about Barubary ?
If you do not share these with us, we cannot discuss or help any more.

the fact that its very likely to be very illegal. as evident by the 3 year Vivendi Universal vs BNETd lawsuit

Velocity_7

Oct 20, 2003, 03:38 PM

Maybe you fear that this server could be abused to cause trouble on the Sega GC servers ?
Is that the real reason behind your indecision ?

Technically though, that isn't really a problem, because only DC/PC support will be provided, considering they're both offline officially now. If support for only those versions are released, I seriously doubt there will be any trouble with the GC version.

The problem will come though in the fact that, if sources for it are released, will there be programmers immature enough to go and try to code GC support in?

punkrazza

Oct 20, 2003, 04:14 PM

Krank40oz

Oct 20, 2003, 06:45 PM

I mean why not, its not gonna hurt anyone but i think if anyone does tey have to think are they gona make any money or loose? If its not benefical for them to run it there would be not point. Yes it would be nice but kinda hard!

punkrazza

Oct 20, 2003, 07:43 PM

I agree my vote is YES...

primer567

Oct 20, 2003, 09:07 PM

The REAL Barubary, aka Myria, already has a server.

punkrazza

Oct 20, 2003, 09:11 PM

Same with this "MISSY" chick ive heard so much about... but its mainly just another ship added on to the 4 others in us.

masterwang

Oct 20, 2003, 11:16 PM

I dont think sega would really care enough to sue Baurbary... And if they did theres never enough money to please sega. If it were a dc server only they could prolly just careless dont you think? And Barubarys not makeing money either... So theres not really any illeagle stuff right?

you'd probably be wrong. Sega would more than likely take action, for no reason other than to make an example. bnetd wasnt making any money either, it was 100% opensource. theres several other examples of the same type of thing happening, a couple of which involved services that werent even being offered by the parent company anymore.

so that leaves Barubary with the question. Is Sonic Team going to be "nice" and let it happen? Or are they like 99% of other companies in the world, and only interested in keeping what is theirs along with any *potential* profit involved

CrimsonII2

Oct 20, 2003, 11:47 PM

well Primer, if you noticed in her earlier posts, Barubary already said that she has the server running, my guess is that she wants to be sure it'll be safe to make it accessible to the public (or rather the public of this community), and masterwang, my suggestion for barubary would be to send sonic team an email, and ask them if they would allow her to run it free of charge, heck they don't even have servers for it anymore, so they really shouldn't give a care, but it would be following the simple yet effective CYA rule

saffaya

Oct 21, 2003, 11:59 AM

the fact that its very likely to be very illegal. as evident by the 3 year Vivendi Universal vs BNETd lawsuit

Although I haven't studied the case, I believe this is different. We are not talking about starting a project. It's about releasing an already made program, that won't need modifications by anyone.
You can just release it on the net, and nobody will be able to do anything against it once it's on the peer-to-peer networks.

Maybe you fear that this server could be abused to cause trouble on the Sega GC servers ?
Is that the real reason behind your indecision ?

Technically though, that isn't really a problem, because only DC/PC support will be provided, considering they're both offline officially now.

Barubary has stated long ago that Sonic Team used the same protocols for GC PSO.
So, detailed info on DC server could give tools for annoying the GC servers.

CrimsonII2

Oct 21, 2003, 01:57 PM

well that is true, but if barubary doesn't share the software, just allow people to connect to her server, that wouldn't be giving people the software to be able to screw with the gc servers

Velocity_7

Oct 21, 2003, 02:56 PM

On 2003-10-21 09:59, saffaya wrote:
Barubary has stated long ago that Sonic Team used the same protocols for GC PSO.
So, detailed info on DC server could give tools for annoying the GC servers.

Detailed info, ala open sources. So basically the server has to stay closed-source, otherwise there will be trouble.

[ This Message was edited by: Velocity_7 on 2003-10-21 12:57 ]

Barubary6

Oct 21, 2003, 05:04 PM

On 2003-10-20 19:07, primer567 wrote:
The REAL Barubary, aka Myria, already has a server.

Really? So do I... what a coincidence! >_<

-- Barubary

Barubary6

Oct 21, 2003, 05:07 PM

On 2003-10-21 09:59, saffaya wrote:
Barubary has stated long ago that Sonic Team used the same protocols for GC PSO.
So, detailed info on DC server could give tools for annoying the GC servers.

This is only partly true. While the game protocol is mostly unchanged from Version 2 to Version 3, the *encryption* was completely redone. There's no way to crack the encryption short of reading the GC disk and disassembling the game. That is quite difficult for even experienced programmers so I doubt it will be a problem.

-- Barubary

punkrazza

Oct 21, 2003, 06:54 PM

Hey Barubary... are you ever going to open this server to whom want to play on it?

Sailor_V_64

Oct 22, 2003, 04:26 AM

proberly not he's going to continue to to tempt us like a starving dog getting the left over scrapes.

if he's going to do it he needs to go ahead and do it. me personally i'd love to make my own quest or what not. even if it was dc only.

quit tempting us baru give us the info or let this thread die and go back to being just a dream we have.

Spider

Oct 22, 2003, 05:39 AM

That would be incredibly cool, I havn't played PSO online for ages due to not having the right isp for Australian Dreamcast, but now I got it again, and PSOGC just isnt available online down here, so a PSODC server would be incredible, I would also pay a small sign up fee (like a one time purchas Hunters license) to support it.

martian_man

Oct 22, 2003, 05:41 AM

ive done this on other games but for pc (its alot easier to program on pc)on legendofmir a mmorpg alot of people have done it on that so shud b possible for pso pc maybe not dc =/

Spider

Oct 22, 2003, 06:03 AM

Doesn't PSO DC and PC run (used to run) on the same servers?

Reenee

Oct 22, 2003, 08:10 AM

On 2003-10-22 04:03, Spider wrote:
Doesn't PSO DC and PC run (used to run) on the same servers?

No, unless you really liked true havoc on the servers.

Dragon_Knight

Oct 22, 2003, 08:32 AM

Its like putting DC, GC, and Xbox on the same servers. Thats hell in a basket right there.

Velocity_7

Oct 22, 2003, 09:55 AM

I thought this was already made clear. NO GC OR XBOX SUPPORT!

Xiu_Hazuki

Oct 22, 2003, 11:43 AM

Does it support X-BOX and GC? lol! Just kidding...don't hurt me. I'd love it actually. I didn't read all of this topic since its so long...so please inform me if this was already asked. Does it support the quests?

primer567

Oct 22, 2003, 03:23 PM

To add Xbox support to the server you would have to write a tunneling program to used on your PC which is alot of work. Remember Xbox connects through Live so you must tunnel the connection to Bar's server.

JOROhiki

Oct 23, 2003, 04:19 AM

Barubary, I would definitely like to see a privately run server (for public use). I see many people speculating about which versions of PSO can connect, cheat proofing it (or at least policing it), whether it really can be done (I, personally, don't doubt it's possible), support for downloadable quests, whether it should be distributed for others to use, and whether it would be open source or not. However, it hasn't been made clear yet what it will do, if you allow the general public to connect to it. Or, are you trying to gather what people want or expect before making it available? Also, how soon can we expect it to be available (in whatever form), should you decide to make it public? It has been three weeks already with no (US) online servers. I hope you can clear up some of these questions.

Since this server is in the grey area, legally speaking, I would assume you want to make it as light a grey as possible. Here's basically how I imagine a configuration with the least friction from Sega:
-DC clients only (since only US DC servers are offline, possibly only US versions?)
-no charge to connect (perhaps a donation system, to cover the cost of bandwidth?)
-hack proofing? (you can block those pesky FSODs and other malicious packets, right? anything else?)
-downloadable quests? (I know it goes beyond the relm of communication protocols and into the inner workings of the game itself. I would like to see it, though)

I'm not sure how I feel about releasing the software to the public. On one hand, it would be nice for LANs, as was suggested before. On the other hand, if anyone can run a server, then you scatter all the possible users and lower the average number of people on a server, thus reducing the exposure to the rest of the community. That's what we all liked about the online mode, right? Meeting people and having fun with them. So I think that there should be only one central server. At least initially. How close to the Sega servers can you make it? If there will be other servers, should they all work with the main one, so that you can select a ship (server) on initial connect?
(On that note, I wonder if it's possible to use the proposed server as a gateway to the EU and JP servers. But, that would probably pop up red flags all over the place and invite flaming legal doom from beyond. o_O)

If you do decide to make the server software available, I don't think it should be open source. I usually like open source projects. But, in this case, I think it would make it easier for others to be able to hack with existing servers, even with the different encryption. (Out of curiosity, how strong is that?). If the time comes when you want to stop supporting it, then you could find someone else trustworthy and willing to take over the project.

Please let us know what you have in store for us, Barubary. You have at least 76 people waiting. I'm doing so patiently.