Is the RAmar losing its touch? [Archive]

polishedweasel

Oct 3, 2003, 12:15 PM

On 2003-10-03 10:01, Jonathais_GC wrote:

On 2003-10-02 15:24, Lede wrote:
"I think ramars are the best ranger"
This must be the ONLY ranger you have ever played. tried reversing that and you have the right anwser

"ramars are my prefered class. i would take ramar over any other class"
and this must be the ONLY class you have EVER played.....i can think of 1000 things wrong with that...

i'm sorry no offense to ramar users but this is possibly the WORST ranger.no class PERIOD he almost comes close to humar,

only class i ever played? yeah? and who the fuck are you. i play all classes, and i know what im talking about thank you

next

This sentence brought to you by "BAD GRAMMAR!"

Anyway, RAmar got the shaft after the creation of the RAmarl, she does slightly less damage, but with her Shifta and Deband she does about the same? (not quite sure) He only has 9 more ATA than a RAmarl and his MST and Def suck major. Other than that if you like Being the biatch of C mode go oln ahead and make a RAmar. I tried to do it, I deleted it at lv 40. Then again, I've also deleted many lv 80+ FOnewms too. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Lede

Oct 3, 2003, 12:24 PM

Could not have said it better my self. i got one to level 100 then looked up his later growth rate, hes horrible.

this is what made me pop open a 7up and start drinking to happines after i saw his max stats and confirmed thru a high level ramar.

His max mst is 665 (dude...............DUDE!!!!)
HE CANT EVEN USE A HOLY RAY!!!!!!)and hes gonna heal like......i dunno 14 hp with resta?

his max def is 515 man wtf....thats 17 more the a fomarl...and gettng there is the pain.

max atp 1260 did you know racast is 1350? max ata is 249 ramarl is 241 yea.........8 ata.......yea im gonna hit way more then you (rolls eyes)

not sure on max evade, forgot tho but its somewhere near late 600 i think i gotta check again.i just feel so bad for them....at least humar has atp....

Garm

Oct 3, 2003, 12:38 PM

ramarl with shifta does +/- the same damage as a ramar but they have shifta to and ramarl is ugly (that what i think no offense) and ever used an lv 200 max acc and atp ramar? never miss with great damage for a ranger

Lede

Oct 3, 2003, 12:59 PM

level 158 ramarl not even maxed, never misses either and does rouglhy MORE damage then a ramarmainly becuase she has zalure and jellen and he doesnt, i'v played with a level 200 ramar and he was getting his ass. kicked in seabed, and he was MAXED, and i wasn't, ramarl can pretty much do every thing a ramar can but better only thing she cant do that he can is equip handgun guild,

and with level 20 shifta she can do MORE damage then he does. not same.

I'm reall sorry and don wanna start a argument but what ever "Advantages" ramarhas over ramarl..if any...is NOT showing up on the battle field.

even did rule 3 and 6 in battle with a ramarl vs ramar and shes STILL stronger then he was, just his ata was like 5 points higher

[ This Message was edited by: Lede on 2003-10-03 11:02 ]

tank1

Oct 3, 2003, 01:12 PM

in the end its the skill orf the player i personally like a challenge and wouldnt trade my RAmar for the world man alright i dont deny it his stats are pretty well bogstandard but i cant stand RAmarls and hate not having techniques but i gotta agree though stat wise the RAmar is really poor.

XavierDreamknight

Oct 3, 2003, 01:21 PM

I myself always preffered Ramars due to the fact I do alot better in ranged combat than in close combat.

Auracom

Oct 3, 2003, 01:32 PM

Every character has potential regardless of physical appearance. You can't say "OMG RAMAR PWNZ J00" cause its a matter of how you use the character.

Kupi

Oct 3, 2003, 02:20 PM

First and foremost: I am sick and tired of seeing look come into discussions about the value of a character. The appearance of a character has absolutely no relevance to their combat performance, and any dislike for a class's visuals is a matter of opinion, which has no real place in a discussion of ability.

Now, as for advantages of the RAmar: this may just be how I see it, but I've never considered the RAmar to be a damage class. The best use of a RAmar is in disruptive fire, either keeping enemies in their "pain" animation or inflicting crippling statuses like Freezing and Paralysis. If that is the case, then the RAmar is perfectly suited to their task: they have the best chance of landing an attack in the game. ATP is irrelevant; all a RAmar needs to do is land an attack that does more than 0 damage to get the job done if they want to disrupt by causing enemies to flinch, and they don't even have to do any damage at all if they're trying to Freeze or Paralyze.

As for their other statistics, DFP and EVP can easily be remedied with a good meat shield. The word "Ranger" connotes that the RAmar isn't going to be up front and getting hit easily, especially if they're using status attacks. If you don't get hit much, the low DFP and EVP can't bring you down very far. And as for the RAmar not having any worthwhile advantages over the RAmarl... what about HP? The RAmar has 205 more HP at level 200, and most attacks that can't be avoided are direct-to-HP damage. So if the RAmar's playing right, he doesn't have to worry about his DFP and he's got better stamina for the stuff that he really can't avoid.

There you have it, my opinion. One last comment, though: if you're looking to a human Ranger for damage, I think you're missing the point. High ATA is best put to use for disruption, not trying to upstage the HUs.

[ This Message was edited by: Kupi on 2003-10-03 12:21 ]

Jonathais_GC

Oct 3, 2003, 02:22 PM

On 2003-10-03 10:24, Lede wrote:
Could not have said it better my self. i got one to level 100 then looked up his later growth rate, hes horrible.

this is what made me pop open a 7up and start drinking to happines after i saw his max stats and confirmed thru a high level ramar.

His max mst is 665 (dude...............DUDE!!!!)
HE CANT EVEN USE A HOLY RAY!!!!!!)and hes gonna heal like......i dunno 14 hp with resta?

his max def is 515 man wtf....thats 17 more the a fomarl...and gettng there is the pain.

max atp 1260 did you know racast is 1350? max ata is 249 ramarl is 241 yea.........8 ata.......yea im gonna hit way more then you (rolls eyes)

not sure on max evade, forgot tho but its somewhere near late 600 i think i gotta check again.i just feel so bad for them....at least humar has atp....

Saying my opinion is wrong because i dont agree with you is stupid, like yourself. Ive played every single class available since back on the DC.

Ever thought that i enjoy playing Ramar because i like a challenge, and not using overrated classes that are boring and uneventful.

Again, sit down.

Jonathais_GC

Oct 3, 2003, 02:25 PM

On 2003-10-03 10:15, polishedweasel wrote:

On 2003-10-03 10:01, Jonathais_GC wrote:

On 2003-10-02 15:24, Lede wrote:
"I think ramars are the best ranger"
This must be the ONLY ranger you have ever played. tried reversing that and you have the right anwser

"ramars are my prefered class. i would take ramar over any other class"
and this must be the ONLY class you have EVER played.....i can think of 1000 things wrong with that...

i'm sorry no offense to ramar users but this is possibly the WORST ranger.no class PERIOD he almost comes close to humar,

only class i ever played? yeah? and who the fuck are you. i play all classes, and i know what im talking about thank you

next

This sentence brought to you by "BAD GRAMMAR!"

Anyway, RAmar got the shaft after the creation of the RAmarl, she does slightly less damage, but with her Shifta and Deband she does about the same? (not quite sure) He only has 9 more ATA than a RAmarl and his MST and Def suck major. Other than that if you like Being the biatch of C mode go oln ahead and make a RAmar. I tried to do it, I deleted it at lv 40. Then again, I've also deleted many lv 80+ FOnewms too. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Theres nothing wrong with my grammer actually.

HighElf9310

Oct 3, 2003, 02:28 PM

On 2003-10-02 11:30, Jonathais_GC wrote:
ramars are my prefered class. i would take ramar over any other class

and you did...

Theres nothing wrong with my grammer actually.

Actually, there is. "There is" and a comma before actually.

I do like RAmars, I had one for my original character back on version one on the DC version *rest in peace*. The RAmar was really amazing. But unfortunatly, I was and always am drawn to magic, so I am a FOmewm. But RAmars still rock in my opinion.

Now, you have to sit down.

[ This Message was edited by: HighElf9310 on 2003-10-03 12:41 ]

Ranger_Larry

Oct 3, 2003, 09:48 PM

On 2003-10-03 12:20, Kupi wrote:
First and foremost: I am sick and tired of seeing look come into discussions about the value of a character. The appearance of a character has absolutely no relevance to their combat performance, and any dislike for a class's visuals is a matter of opinion, which has no real place in a discussion of ability.

Now, as for advantages of the RAmar: this may just be how I see it, but I've never considered the RAmar to be a damage class. The best use of a RAmar is in disruptive fire, either keeping enemies in their "pain" animation or inflicting crippling statuses like Freezing and Paralysis. If that is the case, then the RAmar is perfectly suited to their task: they have the best chance of landing an attack in the game. ATP is irrelevant; all a RAmar needs to do is land an attack that does more than 0 damage to get the job done if they want to disrupt by causing enemies to flinch, and they don't even have to do any damage at all if they're trying to Freeze or Paralyze.

As for their other statistics, DFP and EVP can easily be remedied with a good meat shield. The word "Ranger" connotes that the RAmar isn't going to be up front and getting hit easily, especially if they're using status attacks. If you don't get hit much, the low DFP and EVP can't bring you down very far. And as for the RAmar not having any worthwhile advantages over the RAmarl... what about HP? The RAmar has 205 more HP at level 200, and most attacks that can't be avoided are direct-to-HP damage. So if the RAmar's playing right, he doesn't have to worry about his DFP and he's got better stamina for the stuff that he really can't avoid.

There you have it, my opinion. One last comment, though: if you're looking to a human Ranger for damage, I think you're missing the point. High ATA is best put to use for disruption, not trying to upstage the HUs.

[ This Message was edited by: Kupi on 2003-10-03 12:21 ]
Yup, you're the only one so far here smart enough to realize the ramar has the MOST hp out of any NON droid, and more than the Hucaseal as well. You people that get chars to 156 or whatever and think you're high level STFU you're a newb. 190+ is high level. About Zalure making you're ramarl more powerful than a ramar? You had to CAST the darn spell first, while we were doing damage to the enemies instead. So what's the difference? Higher def so what? We have alot more HP to give, so that equals out. Falz's ice sure doesn't care about your DEF, that's all HP and Resistance. Bringers rifle on ult? HP. Most of the very worst attacks in this game are based on HP and resistance so give this def thing a break. I only had 440 def and beat seabed, but now with 515 and 1770 hp (NO units) it's a breeze. I've also noticed the girls seem to have slower attacks (except hucaseal) That matters too.

PABLOparavida

Oct 3, 2003, 09:51 PM

ramars are awesome. They kill for a distance. I know its kind of a pansey thing to do but they can be very useful.

Ranger_Larry

Oct 3, 2003, 09:54 PM

I never looked at it as pansy, but rather more advanced. Haven't we switched to guns a few hundred years ago http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif Besides, you are sitting on your couch playing a game regardless of sword or gun on your char. Techs could be viewed as pansy too!

DOG21313

Oct 3, 2003, 10:20 PM

Ok, here's my idea... THEY'RE EQUAL!

Ramar Pros:
Higher ATA by 9
Higher ATP by 145
Higher HP by 205

Ramar Cons:
Lower MST/TP by 227 TP and 306 MST
Lower DFP by 62
Lower EVP by 185

DONT SAY: Ramarls have a higher stat point total, thus are better, because: Ramars take 2 slots to max, Ramarls take 3 slots to max, that extra slot could be used for something good, a God/Battle and a Cure/(depends what area ur in), while the ramarl is only running around with the Cure unit, making the Ramar go faster, thus doing more damage quicker.

And don't say you've got techs like higher S&D, cause:
For the "We've got a higher S/D, thus we do more damage" thing, heres what I got to say: Ramars have MORE ATP, thus using their S/D thats only 5 lvs lower, and the ramarl having LESS ATP but having the 5 extra levels of S/D, it equals out.

For the "We have more MST and TP and Techs!" More tech lvs = TP consumed faster, AND ramar makes up for that in extra ATP and ATA.

And for the "We've got more DFP and EVP, thus lasting longer in battle!": NO! Ramarls have DFP and EVP... Here's the thing, ramars have more HP! MAYBE you can last longer in a REGULAR battle with enemies, but when it really comes down to it, boss survival is MORE IMPORTANT! If you die in a regular battle, you can go back and pick up where you've left off, but dying in a boss battle means starting back over! When you get to a boss, you think he's gonna give a care about your DFP? I don't.

Why can't you treat them the same? Geez... That +205 HP, that +9 ATA, that +145 ATP DOES make a difference...

THERE, YOU HAPPY? JUST SAY THEY'RE EQUAL!!! that took a while...

EDIT: Ever equipped an elf/arm ++ onto your char? If so, you've proven that the 9 extra ATA makes a difference...

[ This Message was edited by: DOG21313 on 2003-10-03 20:30 ]

Solidus_Snake

Oct 4, 2003, 01:16 AM

Ill throw in my opinion. RACASEALS ALL THE WAY!!!

Jonathais_GC

Oct 4, 2003, 05:29 AM

On 2003-10-03 12:28, HighElf9310 wrote:

On 2003-10-02 11:30, Jonathais_GC wrote:
ramars are my prefered class. i would take ramar over any other class

and you did...

Theres nothing wrong with my grammer actually.

Actually, there is. "There is" and a comma before actually.

I do like RAmars, I had one for my original character back on version one on the DC version *rest in peace*. The RAmar was really amazing. But unfortunatly, I was and always am drawn to magic, so I am a FOmewm. But RAmars still rock in my opinion.

Now, you have to sit down.

[ This Message was edited by: HighElf9310 on 2003-10-03 12:41 ]

Well if you are going to be petty. It would be...

"I do like RAmars, I had one for my original character back on version one on the DC version (rest in peace)."

"I am a FOmewm"

Never heard of it. Last time i looked, it was FOnewm.

*passes chair*

AlphaDoom

Oct 4, 2003, 06:15 AM

On 2003-10-03 10:08, Berzerker wrote:
I might have been a RAmar whenI first started if it wasn't for their horrible look....I mean, it the worst! I saw me friend trying to make one for his mate and he just ended up not doing it cos he couldn't make it look good. They good with the combanation of resta and guns though.....resta not needed much though if you going to be shooting the whole time...I never looked at it that way! They damn rubbish then! I waaaaaay prefer my RAcast...even though me best mate a RAmar...ah, well, he make a terrible mistake den...

Ok I don't see the point of slagging people choices down. So probably you hate em but people seem to prefer em them as a challenge, their style and even that they can use everything fairly of use nevermind their techs. I personally think ramar's are the best in it's class if any of you managed to get em up atleast lvl 60 legit. Ok so racast have higher power but basically ramar's have shifta and with their good accuarcy I reckon Ramar's do more damage in a 3 way combo. I like all the chas fairly the same, I don't like people slagging chas which are basically equal to others.

Kent

Oct 4, 2003, 06:22 AM

On 2003-10-03 20:20, DOG21313 wrote:
Why can't you treat them the same? Geez... That +205 HP, that +9 ATA, that +145 ATP DOES make a difference...

Yes, a very miniscule difference, almost unnoticable at times...

Jonathais_GC

Oct 4, 2003, 06:23 AM

I agree. I have no problems with any character. The fact that i prefer playing RAmar is down to my personal choice, yet these people cant acknowledge this, and have to say my choice is wrong.

Garm

Oct 4, 2003, 07:31 AM

why does everybody hate the ramar (a lot of people in this thread(sp?)) my friend made one on my memorycard and it ain't that bad as a character...
everyone has his/her own opinion and don;t try to convince people that ramars are crap or the best class everybody should think what they want
stop arguing(sp?) or this will be the longest thread in psow history

Ranger_Larry

Oct 4, 2003, 07:57 AM

Another point, if you have a good mag it gives lv. 22 SD even with no mag combo. Yet another point, mostly we play ONLINE and then we also get to use your better SD and JZ by default. (ramarl, hunewearl, and FO) Then the extra power is quite noticable. Another point, ever here of zalure shot and jellen shot? I only ever see the need for jellen when playing online levels of seabed or ruins ALONE. (when partner is in town) And even then I'm actually better served just pulling out the never miss frozen shooter or snow queen.

Yeah offline you don't get the FOs SD, but then again, who needs it? It's so easy it doensn't matter!

Sega did balance out the game more than you think, it's just that some characters enable you to be LAZY, while others make you actually have to play the game the way it's supposed to be played. I've noticed quite a few hunewearls and ramarls that didn't get the concept of jellen or zalure, so for most of those players they are just playing inferior ramars and humars http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Lede

Oct 4, 2003, 08:11 AM

Not saying if you pick a ramar you are dumband stupid, not saying dont pick one, hes not that bad but hes not that good either, i prefer actaul GOOD rangers apposed to a half-assed ranger,

145 atp +9 ata dont make one shit a diffrence i dunno who said that didnot read but who ever did is a stupid ass, thats like saying that 1 ata humarhas over hune makes a diffrence, if your ranger has over 220 ata your set for life you pretty much wont miss at al but minor so 8 ata means..........SHIT
and like stated before, since ramarl has zalure that her damage even greater, and with forces a racast owns all rangers, racasel may not be that stronger but shedam sure is durable, and id take her over a ramar, no matter how good you play there ARE limits, and Ramar more then proves that.

i took it to find somthing good even in the most uselss andworst classes like Humar, they have decent ata growth and nice atp thee ok for c mode

Ramar is good at NOTHING, he sucks at leveling, hes horrible at c mode, horrible at battle mode, unless you just play him for looks thats about all he has.

Jonathais_GC

Oct 4, 2003, 08:25 AM

I play him because he has flaws. If i wanted it easy, i would just play FOnewm and obliterate everything.

i see your point though.

But the point of the RAmar is to be average at everything, like a HUmar but using a gun. These classes are suposed to be average at everything and exceling at nothing.

Yeah so

Ramarl has high mst and techs yet the other 2 dont have anyway.
Ramar has lower, but he still has them

Racast has high atp,
Ramar has not quite as high atp, the other 2 dont

Racaseal has high Def
Ramar has not quite as high def

Hes a mixed bag and thats the whole point.

[ This Message was edited by: Jonathais_GC on 2003-10-04 06:32 ]

Hrith

Oct 4, 2003, 08:39 AM

On 2003-10-03 20:20, DOG21313 wrote:
Ok, here's my idea... THEY'RE EQUAL!

Ramar Pros:
Higher ATA by 9
Higher ATP by 145
Higher HP by 205

Ramar Cons:
Lower MST/TP by 227 TP and 306 MST
Lower DFP by 62
Lower EVP by 185

DONT SAY: Ramarls have a higher stat point total, thus are better, because: Ramars take 2 slots to max, Ramarls take 3 slots to max, that extra slot could be used for something good, a God/Battle and a Cure/(depends what area ur in), while the ramarl is only running around with the Cure unit, making the Ramar go faster, thus doing more damage quicker.

And don't say you've got techs like higher S&D, cause:
For the "We've got a higher S/D, thus we do more damage" thing, heres what I got to say: Ramars have MORE ATP, thus using their S/D thats only 5 lvs lower, and the ramarl having LESS ATP but having the 5 extra levels of S/D, it equals out.

For the "We have more MST and TP and Techs!" More tech lvs = TP consumed faster, AND ramar makes up for that in extra ATP and ATA.

And for the "We've got more DFP and EVP, thus lasting longer in battle!": NO! Ramarls have DFP and EVP... Here's the thing, ramars have more HP! MAYBE you can last longer in a REGULAR battle with enemies, but when it really comes down to it, boss survival is MORE IMPORTANT! If you die in a regular battle, you can go back and pick up where you've left off, but dying in a boss battle means starting back over! When you get to a boss, you think he's gonna give a care about your DFP? I don't.

Why can't you treat them the same? Geez... That +205 HP, that +9 ATA, that +145 ATP DOES make a difference...

THERE, YOU HAPPY? JUST SAY THEY'RE EQUAL!!! that took a while...

EDIT: Ever equipped an elf/arm ++ onto your char? If so, you've proven that the 9 extra ATA makes a difference...

[ This Message was edited by: DOG21313 on 2003-10-03 20:30 ]

You're forgetting the J/Z BIG advantage for the RAmarl.
With Shifta+Zalure Lv20, RAmarl is by far the most powerful Ranger. And still she has best EVP in game, 2nd best ATA, good MST for a non Force, decent DFP.

The RAmar does not suck stats-wise, but did I mention he is UGLY ?

Jonathais_GC

Oct 4, 2003, 08:49 AM

The RAmar does not suck stats-wise, but did I mention he is UGLY ?

No i dont think you did..... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Lede

Oct 4, 2003, 08:58 AM

Kefka i dunno who made that long ass, post you just quoted caus eim too lazy to read back, but who ever did not to see the j/z cause the moron thinks ramars are equal which they are far from, if you like a challange yea he takes the cake cause you will get one,

145 atp dont make a dffrence but almost60 more def does and almost 3-400 evade does, not to metion 5 more levels of s/d AND the ability to use zalure and jellen which weaken enemies, as ost expert knows just having s/d dont mean much since sme enemies like delbiter are far to strong.

i consider ramarl better becuase every thng cept ata and slight atp are higher then ramars, using ramarl is a challange as wel becase you have to deal with insaly low hp and atp at lower levels but you are greatly rewarded for your troubles later on while with ramar you stay up shit creek the entire time. and having the highest evade in the game is a huge plus cosidering she is a ranger means she can meele too, i mean her max def is 577 thats two less then a humar and about 60 more def then a ramar.

Hrith

Oct 4, 2003, 09:33 AM

On 2003-10-04 06:58, Lede wrote :
Using RAmarl is a challange as wel becase you have to deal with insanely low HP and ATP at lower levels, but you are greatly rewarded for your troubles later on

Couldn't agree more, look at my RAmarl's Lv http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
I can beat any stage w/o using fluids or mates, I don't event carry them, only dolls (every EP2 area has Megid-casters http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif )

DOG21313

Oct 4, 2003, 10:57 AM

On 2003-10-04 06:58, Lede wrote:
Kefka i dunno who made that long ass, post you just quoted caus eim too lazy to read back, but who ever did not to see the j/z cause the moron thinks ramars are equal which they are far from, if you like a challange yea he takes the cake cause you will get one,

145 atp dont make a dffrence *YES IT DOES* but almost 60 more def does *SO YOUR SAYING THAT OUR EXTRA STATS DONT MATTER, BUT YOURS DO?* and almost 3-400 *THATS 185 EVADE* evade does, not to metion 5 more levels of s/d AND the ability to use zalure and jellen which weaken enemies, as ost expert knows just having s/d dont mean much since sme enemies like delbiter are far to strong. *PROVEN WRONG, LOOK IN MY POST BELOW*

i consider ramarl better becuase every thng cept ata and slight atp are higher then ramars, using ramarl is a challange as wel becase you have to deal with insaly low hp and atp at lower levels but you are greatly rewarded for your troubles later on while with ramar you stay up shit creek the entire time. *WRONG, RAMARS DO MORE DAMAGE WITH MORE ACCUARACY AND POW* and having the highest evade in the game is a huge plus cosidering she is a ranger means she can meele too, i mean her max def is 577 thats two less then a humar and about 60 more def then a ramar. *BOSSES WON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR DEFENSE, AND THATS 60 EVP COMPARED TO RAMARS 145 EXTRA ATP*

Its 185 more evade, not 3-400 more. You really are being nieve, you say "His extra ATP and ATA and HP DON'T make a difference, but for some unknown reason, her extra DFP, EVP, and MST DO make a difference" Thats just stupid. Your ignoring the points that I've given because you don't want to admit they're equal. And HELLO! The extra slot thing? Geez, you really need to read ALL of my post before posting again and acting like Ramarl is STILL for some unknown reason better... Its just wrong.

And thats YOUR opinion on the situation, there are just as many Ramar people in here as there are ramarl, tell me something that is better about ramarls, and I'll either tell you how that is wrong, or tell you how there is something about the ramar that is better than ramarl...

OH, and I just calculated using the maxed stats of the Ramar and Ramarl, who would do more on an enemy WITH S/D and J/Z... Look, you were wrong:

Ramar: Base attack: 1260
Shifta Bonus: 15
Normal/Forest/Online/Booma
Zalure Bonus: NONE

Normal attack: 289 damage

Ramarl: Base attack: 1145
Shifta Bonus: 20
Normal/Forest/Online/Booma
Zalure Bonus: 20

Normal Attack: 276 damage

I will NOT take the argument that Ramarls do more while having S/D and J/Z, BECAUSE THEY DON'T! I also think that since Ramarls have to take that extra time to J/Z, that costs time that the Ramar could be doing still more damage shooting with just his Shifta and Deband.

EDIT: TO KEFKA: Kupi said earlier: First and foremost: I am sick and tired of seeing look come into discussions about the value of a character. The appearance of a character has absolutely no relevance to their combat performance, and any dislike for a class's visuals is a matter of opinion, which has no real place in a discussion of ability.

AND:

You're forgetting the J/Z BIG advantage for the RAmarl.
With Shifta+Zalure Lv20, RAmarl is by far the most powerful Ranger. And still she has best EVP in game, 2nd best ATA, good MST for a non Force, decent DFP.

You're forgetting the J/Z BIG advantage for the RAmarl. : Not big enough to get her doing more damage.

With Shifta+Zalure Lv20, RAmarl is by far the most powerful Ranger. : Please back up what you have to say, that statement is entirely wrong.

Best EVP in game: I can agree. ON THAT

2nd best ATA: 2nd, backseat to the RAmar.

good MST for a non Force: Wowie, Rangers can shoot with many types of guns, making all attack techs not worth it. The only good things their MST could be used for are: Resta (Yet you're a Ranger, you shouldn't have to resta much) Anti (I actually think the last two levels of it are useless, but thats my opinion) J/Z and S/D (You're still stuck backseat to the RAmar, and the extra time it takes to cast J/Z? Ramar could be doing damage then, giving him a HUGE advantage over the Ramarl in damage points.

And decent DFP: Ramars have what you'd call decent HP, and bosses aren't gonna give a care about DFP, now are they?

[ This Message was edited by: DOG21313 on 2003-10-04 09:17 ]

Hitaro

Oct 4, 2003, 12:16 PM

I think RAmar are ok ppl just need to know how to use them.

Balbarei

Oct 4, 2003, 12:55 PM

Rangers sucks, they are not suposed to be in a MMO-RPG game anyways http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

AquaFlare7

Oct 4, 2003, 01:06 PM

think of it as an accomplishment to use a RAmar. Lower stats = more challenge. It would be the equivelant of saying "Hey, I just finished the next difficulty level in the game!"

but honestly, all of you ramar players out there be proud of it, for you have taken a step into the next difficulty that many haven't and never will. My first ever character was a RAmar, and while they aren't your average point and die type characters, it makes them that much more interesting to play.

HighElf9310

Oct 4, 2003, 01:39 PM

On 2003-10-04 06:25, Jonathais_GC wrote:
I play him because he has flaws. If i wanted it easy, i would just play FOnewm and obliterate everything.

i see your point though.

Don't forget to capitalized those "I"'s that you have in there.

You haven't ever played FOnewm then, if you think that he is easy to play with. I have him fitted with GOD/MIND's, a Twinkle Star, and a RED MERGE. Nothing just blows up easily like you said. Rangers are much easier to use on any level than a force is. We all know that rangers are pansies of this game. But now to the point of this post.

Your choice isn't wrong like you claim others say. They are just saying that they would prefer the others instead of the RAmar. In my opinion, the RAmars could be a lot better. They are that ranger that is inbetween everything. It has a little bit of power, magic, and defense. The problem is, that it doesn't have anything good enough to make it stand out from the others. The RAcast has traps and more ATP, HP, and I think ATA (I haven't checked the chart in a few days).

RAmars aren't the best choice for some people. Yes, they do provide a challenge like you said. But most people don't want that challenge. One reason why is because he is incredibly balanced. Like I said before, he can do everything, and some people just don't like that in characters. They like specialization that sets other characters apart.

[ This Message was edited by: HighElf9310 on 2003-10-04 11:41 ]

[ This Message was edited by: HighElf9310 on 2003-10-04 11:42 ]

Jonathais_GC

Oct 4, 2003, 02:33 PM

Actually, the RAmar does have the highest ATA in the game.

It was only a joke about FOnewms, I know it isnt that easy but you get my meaning, im sure....

Jason

Oct 4, 2003, 03:02 PM

On 2003-10-03 20:20, DOG21313 wrote:
Ok, here's my idea... THEY'RE EQUAL!

Ramar Pros:
Higher ATA by 9
Higher ATP by 145
Higher HP by 205

Ramar Cons:
Lower MST/TP by 227 TP and 306 MST
Lower DFP by 62
Lower EVP by 185

DONT SAY: Ramarls have a higher stat point total, thus are better, because: Ramars take 2 slots to max, Ramarls take 3 slots to max, that extra slot could be used for something good, a God/Battle and a Cure/(depends what area ur in), while the ramarl is only running around with the Cure unit, making the Ramar go faster, thus doing more damage quicker.

And don't say you've got techs like higher S&D, cause:
For the "We've got a higher S/D, thus we do more damage" thing, heres what I got to say: Ramars have MORE ATP, thus using their S/D thats only 5 lvs lower, and the ramarl having LESS ATP but having the 5 extra levels of S/D, it equals out.

For the "We have more MST and TP and Techs!" More tech lvs = TP consumed faster, AND ramar makes up for that in extra ATP and ATA.

And for the "We've got more DFP and EVP, thus lasting longer in battle!": NO! Ramarls have DFP and EVP... Here's the thing, ramars have more HP! MAYBE you can last longer in a REGULAR battle with enemies, but when it really comes down to it, boss survival is MORE IMPORTANT! If you die in a regular battle, you can go back and pick up where you've left off, but dying in a boss battle means starting back over! When you get to a boss, you think he's gonna give a care about your DFP? I don't.

Why can't you treat them the same? Geez... That +205 HP, that +9 ATA, that +145 ATP DOES make a difference...

THERE, YOU HAPPY? JUST SAY THEY'RE EQUAL!!! that took a while...

EDIT: Ever equipped an elf/arm ++ onto your char? If so, you've proven that the 9 extra ATA makes a difference...

[ This Message was edited by: DOG21313 on 2003-10-03 20:30 ]

Your forgetting about Shifta and Deband, RAmarls can use those. As RAmars need "2 slots to max" and "3 slots to max" for the RAmarls, the RAmarls can reach about the same max stats as a RAmar with "2 slots," therefore a RAmarl can use the "extra 3rd slot" for something like the RAmar. Alas, RAmarls are stronger than RAmars.

Ketchup345

Oct 4, 2003, 03:24 PM

Its 185 more evade. You really are being nieve, you say "His extra ATP and ATA and HP DON'T make a difference, but for some unknown reason, her extra DFP, EVP, and MST DO make a difference"

OH, and I just calculated using the maxed stats of the Ramar and Ramarl, who would do more on an enemy WITH S/D and J/Z... Look, you were wrong:

Ramar:
Normal attack: 289 damage

Ramarl:
Normal Attack: 276 damage

I will NOT take the argument that Ramarls do more while having S/D and J/Z, BECAUSE THEY DON'T! I also think that since Ramarls have to take that extra time to J/Z, that costs time that the Ramar could be doing still more damage shooting with just his Shifta and Deband.

2nd best ATA: 2nd, backseat to the RAmar.

good MST for a non Force: Wowie, Rangers can shoot with many types of guns, making all attack techs not worth it. The only good things their MST could be used for are: Resta (Yet you're a Ranger, you shouldn't have to resta much) Anti (I actually think the last two levels of it are useless, but thats my opinion) J/Z and S/D (You're still stuck backseat to the RAmar, and the extra time it takes to cast J/Z?

And decent DFP: Ramars have what you'd call decent HP, and bosses aren't gonna give a care about DFP, now are they?

EVP and DFP do make a differnce, sometimes a huge one. And certain boss attacks do depend on your defense (in the guides, the ones that say physical). Plus you are not always fighting a boss. When using mechguns (not Yas), you are close enough to the enemy that you may have some come around and hit you before your attack is over, DFP and EVP would help here, since you would block more, and if you are hit, you take less damage.

The ATP differnec is nothing major, they can both kill the same enemy within the same number of hits.

The extra 7? ATA doesn't make a major dfference for RAngers since they have insanely high ATA anyway. You may get only a very very few more misses with RAmarl than RAmar.

HP is useful, but when you are at a high enough level, you have enough to let yourself get hit by some tougher enemies. The HP difference isn't that great. 1520 + 250 = 1770 (RAmar) vs. 1315 + 250 = 1560. Thats not enough to make much of a difference, even in boss battles.

The extra MST and the ability to cast Jellen/Zalure (and higher Shifta/Deband) enable her to act as a stand-in FOrce, allowing other party members to do more damage. MST and Tech levels +5 are also a help. Everyone gets hit once in a while, even RAngers, thats when higher Resta comes in handy. Level 7 Anti helps since it can cure Jellen/Zalure, and can come in handy if you don't have enough TP to cast Shifta/Deband.

Edit: But they are about even.

Wow, I need a http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/coke.gif now, I'm http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_dead.gif .

[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2003-10-04 13:26 ]

DOG21313

Oct 4, 2003, 04:08 PM

EVP and DFP do make a differnce, sometimes a huge one. And certain boss attacks do depend on your defense (in the guides, the ones that say physical). Plus you are not always fighting a boss. When using mechguns (not Yas), you are close enough to the enemy that you may have some come around and hit you before your attack is over, DFP and EVP would help here, since you would block more, and if you are hit, you take less damage.

The ATP differnece is nothing major, they can both kill the same enemy within the same number of hits.

The extra 7? ATA doesn't make a major dfference for RAngers since they have insanely high ATA anyway. You may get only a very very few more misses with RAmarl than RAmar.

HP is useful, but when you are at a high enough level, you have enough to let yourself get hit by some tougher enemies. The HP difference isn't that great. 1520 + 250 = 1770 (RAmar) vs. 1315 + 250 = 1560. Thats not enough to make much of a difference, even in boss battles.

The extra MST and the ability to cast Jellen/Zalure (and higher Shifta/Deband) enable her to act as a stand-in FOrce, allowing other party members to do more damage. MST and Tech levels +5 are also a help. Everyone gets hit once in a while, even RAngers, thats when higher Resta comes in handy. Level 7 Anti helps since it can cure Jellen/Zalure, and can come in handy if you don't have enough TP to cast Shifta/Deband.

Edit: But they are about even.

Wow, I need a http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/coke.gif now, I'm http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_dead.gif .

Ok, you've just proven my point right here. I NEVER said that DFP and EVP don't make a difference, but you said right here : The ATP differnece is nothing major, they can both kill the same enemy within the same number of hits.

So for some reason the Ramarls extra stats DO make a difference, but the Ramars don't? AND thats if the Ramarl wants to take the time to J/Z the enemys, which takes enough time for a Ramar to get a WHOLE combo in, thus killing faster.

Also, the only enemy in the game i've seen who uses J/Z on you is Hidoom and Migium, and its incredibly easy to avoid.

Also, that extra HP does help, I have a couple of times been in a boss battle where the boss took my HP down to 100 or lower. In those situations, it would be the Ramar surviving, not the Ramarl. Also, its a lot more important to survive in boss battles, cause if you die, you start over. Outside of boss battles, you die, you go directly back to where you were.

And for this : The extra 7? ATA doesn't make a major dfference for RAngers since they have insanely high ATA anyway. You may get only a very very few more misses with RAmarl than RAmar.

1. Its 9 more http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif lol
2. Ever equipped an Elf/Arm? If you have, that only adds 7 ATA, proving it makes enough difference to stimulate you to equip it.

And then: Everyone gets hit once in a while, even RAngers, thats when higher Resta comes in handy.

Key there is once in a while, and when that time comes along, Ramarls have the advantage, BUT, when the time comes along that a Ramarl misses, the Ramars gonna have the upper hand.

Edit: Hey, I've never done the food symbols! Hmm... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/coke.gif Hey, I wonder if these work... :7up: http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/spam.gif ok, thats probably enough!!

How do ya do the pie one? lol!

[ This Message was edited by: DOG21313 on 2003-10-04 14:11 ]

Ketchup345

Oct 4, 2003, 08:34 PM

On 2003-10-04 14:08, DOG21313 wrote:
I NEVER said that DFP and EVP don't make a difference, but you said right here : The ATP differnece is nothing major, they can both kill the same enemy within the same number of hits.

So for some reason the Ramarls extra stats DO make a difference, but the Ramars don't? AND thats if the Ramarl wants to take the time to J/Z the enemys, which takes enough time for a Ramar to get a WHOLE combo in, thus killing faster.

Also, the only enemy in the game i've seen who uses J/Z on you is Hidoom and Migium, and its incredibly easy to avoid.

Also, that extra HP does help, I have a couple of times been in a boss battle where the boss took my HP down to 100 or lower. In those situations, it would be the Ramar surviving, not the Ramarl. Also, its a lot more important to survive in boss battles, cause if you die, you start over. Outside of boss battles, you die, you go directly back to where you were.

And for this : The extra 7? ATA doesn't make a major dfference for RAngers since they have insanely high ATA anyway. You may get only a very very few more misses with RAmarl than RAmar.

1. Its 9 more http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif lol
2. Ever equipped an Elf/Arm? If you have, that only adds 7 ATA, proving it makes enough difference to stimulate you to equip it.

And then: Everyone gets hit once in a while, even RAngers, thats when higher Resta comes in handy.

Key there is once in a while, and when that time comes along, Ramarls have the advantage, BUT, when the time comes along that a Ramarl misses, the Ramars gonna have the upper hand.

Ok, depends on the attack for the HP one, as certain ones are affected by DEF, where a RAmarl would survive more.

You forgot about Battle mode, a FO/HUnewearl/HUmar/RAmarl/anyone whith the right S-Rank can cast Jellen/Zalure on you.

About the 7 ATA, I never equiped any */Arm on my RAmarl, now at level 102, even a God/Arm. They have enough ATA to get through without the extra ATA, unless you are going to areas beyond what you should. Only my FOmarl is using a */Arm unit(s) because she needs that to equip a Geist Raygun. I also don't know anyone who ever equiped any of their characters with a */Arm either, they all waited until they had enough ATA do use what they had to.

Also, its fun to melee with a RAmarl. Mine's doing that now with a Double Saber +12. RAmars have a harder time doing this, due to their lower DFP and EVP.

How do ya do the pie one? lol!

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/cake.gif There is no pie, but there is a cake!

[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2003-10-04 18:39 ]

DOG21313

Oct 4, 2003, 09:35 PM

Ok, depends on the attack for the HP one, as certain ones are affected by DEF, where a RAmarl would survive more.

You forgot about Battle mode, a FO/HUnewearl/HUmar/RAmarl/anyone whith the right S-Rank can cast Jellen/Zalure on you.

About the 7 ATA, I never equiped any */Arm on my RAmarl, now at level 102, even a God/Arm. They have enough ATA to get through without the extra ATA, unless you are going to areas beyond what you should. Only my FOmarl is using a */Arm unit(s) because she needs that to equip a Geist Raygun. I also don't know anyone who ever equiped any of their characters with a */Arm either, they all waited until they had enough ATA do use what they had to.

Also, its fun to melee with a RAmarl. Mine's doing that now with a Double Saber +12. RAmars have a harder time doing this, due to their lower DFP and EVP.

How do ya do the pie one? lol!

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/cake.gif There is no pie, but there is a cake!

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Its 9 ATA *Sad* J/K Hey, you just gave me an idea! If a Ramar wanted to cast J/Z, he could get an S-Rank and get Jellen or Zalure on it!

Ok... Well, my friend has a RAcast, and he equips /Arm units.

Hey, thats cool that you melee with your RAmarl, I melee with my FOmar, with a Double Saber! ( with 40% Hit! ) LOL!

I really didnt ever think of battle mode, since the most popular rule is 6, and you go back to lv 20 and all.

Also, its fun to melee with a RAmarl. Mine's doing that now with a Double Saber +12. RAmars have a harder time doing this, due to their lower DFP and EVP.

And thats where their difference comes in. I believe that RAmars, because of the extra ATA, are suited to hanging back, and snipering the enemys with special attacks, whereas the RAmarl, with her higher DFP, EVP, and Resta, are more suited to being part melee and tech also at times. So theres the advantage to having a RAmar. If I got to choose, I'd probably choose RAmar, just because I have NO RANGERS whatsoever, just because I think the only fun they have is using specials, which is the RAmars good field.

So, they are both good, just at different things.

Oh, and: I actually had a meal just before I read your post, and I got http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/coke.gif and http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/cake.gif !

Lede

Oct 5, 2003, 05:29 AM

like i just said her ata grows about the same as his does so you might as well call there ata EQUAL but since she has way higher def and evad she can actually meele better then ramar, i dont know why u keep comaping diffrences to things that ralry happen, while she is casting j/z he is already hitting, 1st of all without it u do like 22 damaage to some monsters, i doubt you will kill faster, and it only takes pretty much less then a second to cast zalure, so that makes that statment obsolete, she wll basicly kill faster then he will, I understand you want to protect that next to useless ranger class but even with his *slight* ata advatage whice is *8* not 9 241/249 count them. ramar can never be as good as ramarl not even racast,

Berzerker

Oct 5, 2003, 05:55 AM

ahhhhhh! too many quotes! geez, 1. ppl choose what they choose, in my opinon RAmar are now OK, but not great, I would rather go for something else. I mean, even if resta doesn't heal much, still gonna be useful for a boss such as De Rol Lie.....having the extra healing powers might just help. I don't like the look of RAmars and I expect it put ppl of them because of that, I mean we all want our characters to look kool as well dont we? otherwise there be no point in being able to change your clothes/body colour or hair or head would there now? Me thinks this just gonna turn into one big war - ppl who like RAmars and ppl who dont http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_ak.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_bash.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

Nai_Calus

Oct 5, 2003, 06:06 AM

Sweet Jesus some of these arguments are retarded. It's like the HUmar/HUnewearl and FOmar/FOnewearl debates.

And fluck max stats, look at -base- stats and stat growth. People say, for example, that there's no difference between the HUmar and HUnewearl ATA-wise, when nothing could be farther from the truth, considering that even at L100 there's a huge difference in base, and at L200 base he has 174 while she has 147, which is gigantic and means that she has a hell of a time -reaching- her max.

9 ATA makes a hell of a lot of difference. I recently traded my HUmar's old worn-out Elf/Arm for a shiny new God/Arm for an extra 8 ATA. Do I notice a difference? Yes, I do. Minor ATA differences are also used to argue for other classes- People advocate FOmarls over FOmars because their max ATA is 7 points higher. Let's have a look at some stats.

L200 Base/Max:

HP:
RAmar: 1520
RAmarl: 1315

Have fun with the God/HPs you'll need to survive some stuff. O_o;

TP:
RAmar: 704
RAmarl: 931

...And? Unless you're spamming techs every five seconds, you aren't going to go through your TP any too fast. Hell, my HUmar has 663 TP, casts J/Z on everything, and Resta when he gets whacked by shit in Ruins/etc, and he doesn't really use fluids that much.

ATP:
RAmar: 806/1260
RAmarl: 743/1145

Who -cares-. It barely matters. If there's a good FO on the team, though, it cancels out her L20 Shifta and Zalure. Some characters are better solo, some are better in good teams. HUnnys, for example, pwn by themselves, but don't gain that much from a good support FO, whereas HUmars will kick their asses with the same good support FO around because the stats that matter for damage are higher... Same here. *shrug* Don't much care, had a RAmarl, couldn't stand her, have a RAmar, don't exactly love him, either.

DFP
RAmar: 359/515
RAmarl: 426/577

Eh. *shrug* Unless you're getting whacked around, it doesn't matter much. If you're getting whacked around as a RA, you're not doing it right. O_o; RAmarl wins here, though, and reaches her max a whopping 5 points easier. (...Who still sucks enough at those kinds of levels to get hit by most physical boss attacks? O_o;)

MST:
RAmar: 505/665
RAmarl: 732/1031

...I don't think anything needs to be said here. But I'll just note that if I want good MST, I'll use a goddamned FO.

ATA:
RAmar: 230/249
RAmarl: 216/240

RAmar wins and reaches it a bit easier. 9 points of ATA -can- make a difference, even with fucktarded amounts of it. *shrug* Having the highest ATA in the game is a -good- thing, especially with ATA-dependent specials...

EVP:
RAmar: 639/715
RAmarl: 798/900

Yeah, ok, this is just laughable. RAmarl wins.

RAmarl wins overall, but the RAmar doesn't lag that badly, and has advantages in some important areas. RAmarl's more solo-oriented and RAmar's more good team-oriented. Personally, I'd pick the RAmar, just because he's a bit truer to his class(Same reason I like HUmars over HUnewearls - If I wanted a ghetto FO with lower ATP and ATA I'd pick a FOmarl). *shrug* Just my opinion.

At L100, the ATP difference is almost non-existant, although the RAmar has 10 more ATA there. And at that kind of level, yes, 10 ATA really -does- matter.

As for some of the earlier posts, um, not using arm units = teh stupid. Honestly, I've felt more drive to get God/Arms for my chars than God/Powers, because ATA is so stupidly important. Really, you can't have too much. O_o;

IIRC, either Sinow Zeles or Sinow Spiegells or both do J/Z as well as Hidoom/Migium... I've wished for S/D or L6 Anti with my HUmar before, heh. Yeah, come to think of it, I think Zeles -do- J/Z you.

Note that Zalure is nearly worthless unless it's a FO-type level, but that even shitty L15 HUmar Jellen completely rapes a Sinow Zoa. ...And I wouldn't ever take a RAmar to solo Seabed(Or a 'droid), what with the lack of J/Z for a 'tag'(Can't see the sinow and it doesn't show on your radar? No problem. Just look for those red and blue sparkles). Poor 'mars get raped. Wouldn't trade my HUmars and FOmars for anything, though, and I'm even kind of fond of my RAmar. *shrug*

For the record, I find -both- RAmars and RAmarls to be ugly. I'd date a RAcast before I'd date either.

*goes to bed, christ, it's 7am already*

Ranger_Larry

Oct 5, 2003, 07:34 AM

On 2003-10-05 03:29, Lede wrote:
like i just said her ata grows about the same as his does so you might as well call there ata EQUAL but since she has way higher def and evad she can actually meele better then ramar, i dont know why u keep comaping diffrences to things that ralry happen, while she is casting j/z he is already hitting, 1st of all without it u do like 22 damaage to some monsters, i doubt you will kill faster, and it only takes pretty much less then a second to cast zalure, so that makes that statment obsolete, she wll basicly kill faster then he will, I understand you want to protect that next to useless ranger class but even with his *slight* ata advatage whice is *8* not 9 241/249 count them. ramar can never be as good as ramarl not even racast,

Quit exaggerating. My RAmar does at least 200 with normal attack to even the toughest monsters in the game, with a friggin spread needle with no percents on ULT online. Oh, and I love how you say you'd pick a RAcaseal over a RAmar. They have 1175 atp max, versus 1260 for the RAmar. Oh, and no techs whatsoever. (no shifta) It's good that they have high def and hp because you can pretty much eat dinner before they would clear a room, going by your standards. Oh yeah, and if your going to cast zalure you might as well do it with the srank shot, it's OVER level 30. Now THAT, makes a difference. (a FO can't cancel it out with lv 30 deband) Plus you people keep keying on the chars def stat. All humans (except FOs with the sheild) can wear Aura Field and Standstill Sheild. Together they add almost as much def as your character has, meaning 62 def doesn't add up to a whole lot when you're comparing numbers like, 958-1020. That's not even 10%.

Now lets talk about HP, the RAmar has 13% more hp than a RAmarl, and units wise can handle even an additional god hp over what the ramarl could wear, which just makes it worse for the ramarl. Heh, on the DC ver the chars stats meant almost nothing as the games stats were more heavily weopon and armor bases. Nobody cared about def stats then, it mattered what armor you had. It's not as heavily slanted on the GC ver, but it still matters ALOT.

I play with ramarls and hunewearls alot online, 2 of my best freinds have high level of each char. When they are getting hit on you can't see any difference on their life bars compared to when I get hit, because I simply have alot more HP to give. IF a delsaber criticals you it's still gonna *hurt* no matter what char you have.

[ This Message was edited by: Ranger_Larry on 2003-10-05 05:36 ]

Lede

Oct 5, 2003, 07:36 AM

Well spoken by a true moron indeed, zalure 20 is FAR from useless we are not talking about level 5 zalure you idioit, and comapring those stupid stats would mean every one who uses ramar and ramarl woul use NO mats NO mag and NO untis what so ever, your basing stats off ways that ppl where going thru areas but naked and i dont any one is stupid enough to do that, ppl grow them diffrently what im saying is at full power when you have done all you can do she comes ou better andfor the last fucking time 8 ATA DOES NOT MAKE ONE GOD DAMN FUKING DIFFRENCE WHEN WILL YOUR DUMB ASS GET THAT THRU YOUR FUKKIN HEAD! 163-170 makes a diffrence becuase its low but there both over 230 ata which is already good enough becuase they are rangers, read between the lines it may seem slight to you since you have not tried both, your basing off words i have tried both and seen for my self and the resutls are clear, he cant compare or come close. end of story.

Id rather be able to take care of my self without depending on a force, and do near impossible areas alone with no problems or little, an still hold my own in teams (RAmarl), vs somone who is soly dependat on forces as much as droids and if he tries alone he gets destroyed if online (Ramar)

and when no force is present in a game or you have one that wont support for jack then that's where ramarl comes in. and only stupid ass idioits think zalure and jellen 20 dont mean anything, forces maybe be stroner in teq levels but there is not ALWAYS force around, and if you suck that bad to where you MUST depend on forces teqs to survive then maybe you should play alone for a while...

Btw if it makes feel better my ramarl does bout 3-400 damage with spread needle with normal attack, thats just so you won't feel left out,

i said racasel becuase she has somthing on her side which is def,hp and even evade, ramar has none of these, read it clearly next time.

if in fact every one plays there rangers without mats, mags, armors and units then every thing you just said would make sense but since they don't guess where that leaves you.

[ This Message was edited by: Lede on 2003-10-05 05:42 ]

Ranger_Larry

Oct 5, 2003, 07:42 AM

Basically, I have a level 199 ramar and can solo anywhere. I'll take on falz or flow online by myself. Ult ruins? Yeah sorceror megid gets me once in awhile, it gets everyone sooner or later. Seabed is the same with megid from del depths. Once in awhile they get me, big deal. Yeah having lv 20 jellen can help, but all it's for is when you are lazy and don't feel like moving a little bit sometimes. I have a feeling maybe sega made the hunewearl and ramarl for players that can't play the game. The humars and ramars are even easy to play with, if you suck with them, then maybe it's YOU. Now go hug your ramarl, do you feel better now? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Ranger_Larry

Oct 5, 2003, 07:44 AM

Also, this guy above me here should read the forum rules on flaming, he gets a bit personal, and incites flaming bigtime. Heh, he gets that way with both the onscreen chars and the people who use them! Anger managment anyone?

Ranger_Larry

Oct 5, 2003, 07:46 AM

PS I said to the TOUGHEST enemies in the game with that needle damage, most are also 300-400 to me *rolleyes*. Learn some english too, 3-400 = three to four hundred, 300-400= three hundred to four hundred. It's harder to read your posts then it is to play the game.

Lede

Oct 5, 2003, 07:49 AM

Wow you had to wait tll level 199 to do that well, guess i should not tell you my ramarl has been doing solo ruins ult online when every one suddelty leaves, as well as seabed andeven east and west tower, in fact i soled west tower alone for over 100 runs getting neis claw, and she has hadlittle to no problems, in fact only time she dies is from the plant insta megid spit other then that iv had np problems and all this was between level 150-58, did my 1st falz online solo fight at level 103 and killed him. and shes not even maxed. iv fought every boss solo, many times andnotone gives me any trouble. this incudes esp 1 and 2, this why i can confirm ramarl is by far one of the best.

Lede

Oct 5, 2003, 07:54 AM

if you dont like what i say then by all means leave, 3-400 was doing t a delbiter for gods sake. sinow zoas marlans etc, maybe you shoul read and VIEW facts before you post non sense, words mean little you cannot show me anything. i dont even want to dicuss battle mode and ramars get muderd ny my ramarl in any rule, go ahead and hug your pathetic ramar maybe it will make him better?

Ranger_Larry

Oct 5, 2003, 07:57 AM

So your point in all this argument is???? You need lv 20 deband and jellen or you can't play the game? I know low level racasts and hucasts that don't die on these levels. (no techs or resta) I could solo those levels a long time ago too, it's just that it's EASY now. I mean fall asleep tired of pso easy. Yeah sega did mess up on their chars, ripping off the guys. But, the game is so easy it's still easy even for them, and yes, they can own you in battle mode and are better at bosses. You bag on ramar, what about hucaseal? What the heck does that char have going for it? Less hp than ramar, and only 10, yes TEN more def. NO techs either, and not much more atp. Traps? Ever hear of a snow queen? Same diff.

Ranger_Larry

Oct 5, 2003, 08:01 AM

On 2003-10-05 05:54, Lede wrote:
if you dont like what i say then by all means leave, 3-400 was doing t a delbiter for gods sake. sinow zoas marlans etc, maybe you shoul read and VIEW facts before you post non sense, words mean little you cannot show me anything. i dont even want to dicuss battle mode and ramars get muderd ny my ramarl in any rule, go ahead and hug your pathetic ramar maybe it will make him better?

Um I was here before you and will likely be hear long after you leave. No one is going to make me leave, you'll get banned for flaming long before that happens. You're the one that cusses all the time, learn some manners. Debate is one thing, cussing at people on a board is immature and doesn't make the site look good. You also exaggerate on the delbiter damage. Like I said I play with other chars, ramarl and hunewearl included. I can cast zalure on it too, and do 400 damage.

Lede

Oct 5, 2003, 08:09 AM

Wow you are a real idioit btw this is ULT MODE not normal,

ok litte boy? and sorry no any ramar that eve dares tries will get owned in ba mode 100%no doubt zip dead you dare try and you die nuff said, for somone talking about you need level 30 teqs to mae i thru areas and you bash on level 20? im more then enough xp to make my way thru any area, you can talk smack cause you hink being level 199 maesu immnue to areas pfft,

and now your bashing hucasels? you would not know a good class if it bit you right in the ass. they have fastest dbl saber speed highest hunter ata 3rd higest evade, and thre atp is more then enough, i do just fine with mine as well, and with j/z weps she can even out do a humar. perhaps you should play another class to get the feel of a acual GOOD classes it's pointless arguing with a person that cant even play anythngoher then a ramar. my god man are you that damn sad?

Lede

Oct 5, 2003, 08:13 AM

I do whatever the hell i want to do and say whatever i want to say like i said if you have a problem with it that's to bad bad leave and dont reply, your basicly the only noob im argung with here, so you like ramar, that's your fault, i have all classes cept humar, ramar and hucast no space for hucast, tried ramar and humar and was sorly dissapointed, atp is not every thing to me, and never was. maybe you should learn some manners before you insult someone, k?

o and just becuase you cannot find other insuls don't start attacking how i type and what i say only retards do that becuase they run out of flame material but i guess your one of them

[ This Message was edited by: Lede on 2003-10-05 06:16 ]

Ranger_Larry

Oct 5, 2003, 08:16 AM

OK, anteras 7, block one, lobby one. LARRY VeR.2 Put up or shut up http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif Be there in 10-15 mins. If you don't want to, then please be quite on these boards you are going to far. Since we are doing nothing but arguing on here we have spare time and might as well see what's up with this. I never do battle mode, so it will just be in F1. When both say "ready", it's time to go. No multiequipping either. (it wouldn't be fair to me for battle mode because I don't know the maps and you would get the drop on me, we are only seeing how these chars do toe to toe)

Lede

Oct 5, 2003, 08:19 AM

Better lets skip the f1 bs andjust go for rule 3 or 6 then you can put up or shut up, i still kill in f1 but rules are better see if your ramar can back up this talk of yours.

Jonathais_GC

Oct 5, 2003, 08:21 AM

pmt anybody?

DOG21313

Oct 5, 2003, 07:11 PM

1.Yes, 8 ATA does make a difference, just like Ian KunX said.

2. RAMAR DOES MORE DAMAGE! Read all of my posts please, or you have no bussiness responding.

3. You really are being immature saying that our extra 205 HP doesn't make a difference, but your little 60 or so extra DFP does? Pfft to you.

4. Please try to post in a better fashion, I probably missed something in one of your posts because I can't read them, they're all run together.

5. The battle mode thing. I beat a FOnewm in rule 6 with a humar, battle mode is not a fair comparison.

6.

i said racasel becuase she has somthing on her side which is def,hp and even evade, ramar has none of these, read it clearly next time.

RAmar doesn't have HP on his side? Geez, compared to RAmarls they do, you just dissed your own class by doing that. And RAcaseals don't have techs, so its fair they get more HP, think.

Ranger_Larry

Oct 5, 2003, 08:04 PM

Well, I learned alot today. I lost, but what does not kill you makes you stronger http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif I had never really battled seriously before (one hour on GC, one hour on DC, and that hour on GC was just goofing off in a lop-sided battle with friends)

It's the anti 7 that's the real killer, as ramarl can get rid of j/z, ramar can't. The peeps I had battled before couldn't figure that out lol. Also I shoulda used a god battle, I dunno if he had one but I seemed too slow.

The loss I had in rule 6 had more to do with my ineptitude at the beginning then the ramars weakness. Although this whole thing reminded me of why I don't bother much with battle mode, it's just a big lag fest. I'm used to playing games like GRIT and Unreal with 0 lag. (xbox live) All you do is basically trade slow motion blows.

About the def I don't really think that's a big deal, it's the techs. If I had all my stats, and ramarls the same, but only I had her techs and she had mine, it woulda been the same result the other way.

So that's that, that's how sega messed up humar/ramar. If only they woulda had 20 techs and anti 7, but kept the only jellen/zal for humar and S/D for ramar and maybe slightly more mst for each so they didnt run out of tp it would have been perfectly balanced. (not alot of mst, like 35 or so) Even so, when you're not in battle mode it's not that big of a deal.

P.S. this thread is still really dumb because there are alot of other characters that can't really beat FOs or ramarl/hunewearl in battle mode either. That makes HALF the characters in the game crap if you look at it that way : It still doesn't mean that they can't play, my 188 racast was having quite the easy time in ult ruins......I didn't even use a dimate or trimate.

[ This Message was edited by: Ranger_Larry on 2003-10-05 18:11 ]

WootHinkInc

Oct 5, 2003, 08:12 PM

It doesn't really matter if they suck or not...as long as you have fun using them. That's my belief. RAmars are fun to use, but I like using the RAmarls better.

Ketchup345

Oct 5, 2003, 08:13 PM

Ok, to end all this fighting, both RAmar and RAmarl are equivalent.

Stat: RAmar: RAmarl: Difference:
HP: 1770 1565 > (205)
TP: 704 931 < (227)
ATP: 1260 1145 > (115)
DFP: 515 577 < (62)
MST: 665 1031 < (366)
ATA: 249 241 > (8)
EVP: 715 900 < (185)
Luck: 100 100 = (0)

Total stat difference: RAmar (328) < RAmarl (840)

But, the RAmar is best for online/multiplayer with a FOrce. The RAmarl is best for single player/multiplayer with no FOrce and HUnewearl.

Class Comparison (http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=945)

The 8 ATA isn't that much when you have that much. For something like a FOmar/FOmarl, the extra ATA does help since it is so low.

RAmarl can hold her own better than a RAmar because of the extra DFP and EVP, allowing her to melee or use mechguns safer. All characters get hit, sometimes, and when hit, the RAmarl is better off due to the above, and better Resta.

Some of the boss attacks that depend on DFP aren't always dodgeable. What if you're trying to help someone out by casting Resta or Anti?

Plus, the Jellen/Zalure does cut time for bosses, so the RAmarl is useful there when there is no FOrce.

Ranger_Larry

Oct 5, 2003, 08:17 PM

Yeah, the game is still fun no matter what char. I'll just have to level (reco?!! lol) up a hunewearl/ramarl, or better yet fonewearl and have some fun in battle mode. I still prefer playing as guys though, just feels eh, weird playing as a girl lol. (like when you get sudden company and they see what you are playing, it's kinda hard to say why you like playing as little girls lol) In the end it won't matter much as with 3 turbo controllers I can pretty much have my cake and eat it too http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

WootHinkInc

Oct 5, 2003, 08:19 PM

Thanks for enlightening me on that Ketchup. But I think the RAmarls are a lot prettier still... >_>

Genoa

Oct 5, 2003, 08:28 PM

I used to like RAmar. That was my 1st character. Got him to ult caves lvl. 89. Then he got corrupted and I made a RAmarl. Now she's at 106 on ult ruins. btw, she ATEMPTED to kill Falz today http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif I'm just awaiting the day that Del-D drops my Lavis Cannon. Or is he stingy like Tallow... oh well, someday... btw, RAMARL'S SO MUCH COOLER! RAmar has terrible MST and you don't need so much ATA if your a Ranger. I have yet to get a gun that I can't use. I can deal with the less hp for more mst.

PABLOparavida

Oct 5, 2003, 08:34 PM

Ramars are cool because they are made to freeze, confuse, and paralyze the enemies with there guns. They are a very useful member of a team.

Nai_Calus

Oct 5, 2003, 08:50 PM

On 2003-10-05 05:36, Lede wrote:
Well spoken by a true moron indeed, zalure 20 is FAR from useless we are not talking about level 5 zalure you idioit, and comapring those stupid stats would mean every one who uses ramar and ramarl woul use NO mats NO mag and NO untis what so ever, your basing stats off ways that ppl where going thru areas but naked and i dont any one is stupid enough to do that, ppl grow them diffrently what im saying is at full power when you have done all you can do she comes ou better andfor the last fucking time 8 ATA DOES NOT MAKE ONE GOD DAMN FUKING DIFFRENCE WHEN WILL YOUR DUMB ASS GET THAT THRU YOUR FUKKIN HEAD! 163-170 makes a diffrence becuase its low but there both over 230 ata which is already good enough becuase they are rangers, read between the lines it may seem slight to you since you have not tried both, your basing off words i have tried both and seen for my self and the resutls are clear, he cant compare or come close. end of story.

Id rather be able to take care of my self without depending on a force, and do near impossible areas alone with no problems or little, an still hold my own in teams (RAmarl), vs somone who is soly dependat on forces as much as droids and if he tries alone he gets destroyed if online (Ramar)

and when no force is present in a game or you have one that wont support for jack then that's where ramarl comes in. and only stupid ass idioits think zalure and jellen 20 dont mean anything, forces maybe be stroner in teq levels but there is not ALWAYS force around, and if you suck that bad to where you MUST depend on forces teqs to survive then maybe you should play alone for a while...

Btw if it makes feel better my ramarl does bout 3-400 damage with spread needle with normal attack, thats just so you won't feel left out,

i said racasel becuase she has somthing on her side which is def,hp and even evade, ramar has none of these, read it clearly next time.

if in fact every one plays there rangers without mats, mags, armors and units then every thing you just said would make sense but since they don't guess where that leaves you.

[ This Message was edited by: Lede on 2003-10-05 05:42 ]

Thank you for crying us a river so poorly formed I have no clue who the hell you're screaming at(Shamelessly paraphrased from NKOTB). I assume it's me from what I can make out, so. ^_^

I never said L20 Zalure was useless, just that Zalure doesn't have the same level of effect as Jellen does. I don't really use my HUmar's Zalure much, or even my FOmars. I never fail to use Jellen, however, and I miss it like mad on my RAmar.

As for stats, yes, it's raw stats, but people are generally going to boost the same things, equip the same kind of armor, and use the same sort of weapons, so it winds up about the same anyways. If you're both using an Aura Field, a POW/DEX Mag and weilding Frozen Shooters, your stats get the same kind of boost, so it doesn't make fuck-all of a difference. ^_-;

And yes, at those levels, the difference is neglible, but consider that most people are not going to be L200. As I noted, at the much more realistic L100, the RAmar has 10 base ATA on her, and then, hey, guess what. It -does- make a difference.

I never said J/Z weren't important, just that Zalure I don't find particularily spectacular. I think Deband sucks, too. *shrug* Shifta/Jellen, and everything is dead and doesn't do shit to you.

Most times, yeah, it's hard for me to play without a Force... I mean, I only have three characters that aren't Forces. I'm offline only, sweetie. Sometimes I do Multimode with my FOmar and HUmar on Ult for the fun of it, and when I do I know my limits and don't try to do stupid shit way above my level(s). I don't do stupid shit like expect my HUmar to solo Ult Seabed in Multimode when he has trouble with it on Single. I know my limits, and I know how to not die every other room, with -all- my characters, regardless of level. Most of them are in Ult, and do a wonderful job of owning things. Usually there's a Force around - Them. >P But even my HUmars and RAmar do perfectly well. I've been there, done that, beaten Ult Falz, working on Ult Olga, I don't need a goddamned Force to wipe my HUmars and RAmar's asses. ^_^v I even know how to work well in teams from dealing with incompetent people I've played with on Multimode in real life, so don't bitch that I don't know what I'm doing there, either. And anyone can do near impossible areas if they know how to play their class. Don't act like it's just the RAmarl that can do that.

I don't know why I'm feeding the troll. Boredom, I guess. *shrug*

And if you're so gung-ho on hating the RAmar and refusing to see -any- good in them, you have issues... I hate HUnewearls because I can't stand using them, but I don't say they suck. They don't. I just personally don't like to use them.

And as for the looks thing that's been brought up before, I don't like the RAmar's mini-fridge, -or- the RAmarls' jockstrap. >P

Lede

Oct 5, 2003, 09:06 PM

Ian thank you putting your ugly ass, nose where it does not belong, 1st of all i was not talking to you, second of all that was over 2 years ago, welcome to last week buddy.

Da_Wrecka

Oct 5, 2003, 09:38 PM

Hey Lede, are you by any chance aware that *smart* trolls don't need to resort to personal insults to keep the shit stirred?

Olga-Rappy

Oct 6, 2003, 09:28 AM

Ouch. Lede, you deserve every bit of that.

I'm not going to bother reading anything anyone else has said, as I can't stand bickering, so if you've seen this before, don't stop me.

THEY ARE ALL EQUAL, ESPECIALLY THE RAMAR AND RAMARL. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS WHETHER YOU WANT TO HIT MULTIPE ENEMIES WITH A SLIGHTLY BETTER RAFOIE, OR A SLIGHTLY MORE ACCURATE SHOT.

That's all. And yes, RAmars have only slightly weaker techs. And yes, RAmarls do only miss slightly more with shots, and do slightly less damage. Both of them are the same in every other respect, be it using Rifles, Mechguns, Double Sabres, Launchers, or taking hits from enemies. That's right, THE SAME.

So please, don't complain about a character being bad in anything other than your personal opinion. because that's all it rests on - your skill, and your mental image of "good-looking".

[ This Message was edited by: Olga-Rappy on 2003-10-06 07:33 ]

Lede

Oct 6, 2003, 09:43 AM

ouch to bad i did not deserve that and the person who said it is a retard as well as anyone who kisses his ass (agrees with him) so who are you to tell somone they deserve it huh?

lol where talking about ramar and ramarl here it depends if you want a better defensive,/supportive/evasive solo ranger or mild ata ranger that sucks at every thing else, thats the true statement, end of story.

Jonathais_GC

Oct 6, 2003, 09:46 AM

the fact is, that nobody agrees with you lede, and you have to resort to childish insults to get your point across. your making youself look like a total moron.

Lede

Oct 6, 2003, 09:49 AM

they dont have to agree with me, dont give a shit its normal for most ppl to be ignrant fools and dont kno whats good and whats not, its you and every one else making them self look like a total moron ty. next?

Olga-Rappy

Oct 6, 2003, 09:54 AM

On 2003-10-06 07:43, Lede wrote:
ouch to bad i did not deserve that and the person who said it is a retard as well as anyone who kisses his ass (agrees with him)

That's the difference between the two of us. If I want to agree with omebody, I don't have to resort to burying my face in their shit.

See? You're not the only one who can use personal attacks. You ARE the only one who can't spell theirs, I'll give you that.

On 2003-10-06 07:43, Lede wrote:
so who are you to tell somone they deserve it huh?

That made no sense at all, unless you're trying to make fun of any Canadians here by asking a question twice.

On 2003-10-06 07:43, Lede wrote:
lol where talking about ramar and ramarl

No, Really? Hmm... perhaps that's why I mentioned a HUcaseal and FOnewm in ym post! </sarcasm>

On 2003-10-06 07:43, Lede wrote:
here it depends if you want a better defensive,/supportive/evasive solo ranger or mild ata ranger that sucks at every thing else, thats the true statement, end of story.

Sonic Team didn't put either in the game, unless the first one was a FOmarl. They're FORCES. Say it with me: FOHR-SEZ.

The best defensive Ranger is the RAcaseal, the closest thing to a support ranger is the RAmarl, who is the only one that can use multi-hitting shots properly. (With his much higher ATA and ATP) Best evasive is the RAmarl.

So I'm assuming you meant the RAcast by the last one? If you're dissing the RAcast, aka Mechgun Masta, Terminator, and Badass Robot Dude, there's no logical explanation for why this topic isn't decaying on the last page.

Lede

Oct 6, 2003, 10:01 AM

olga you simple minded fool never said racast was bad, but if your gonna go spewing bullshit thats makes no sense then you need to leave me the fuck alone, don't worry about what i say and dont worry about my typing only fucking retards go around saying bs like that,

i have been in seriously bad moode for the past two days and i don't feel like bein fucked with right now so just STFU and go argue with some one else, you like ramar thats fine that peice of shit is your fav class i however like a actauly GOOD one leave it at that and go away, i did not bother fully reading your post becuase there was no point. so whatever you say that's you i dont remember asking you one dam thing anyway.

[ This Message was edited by: Lede on 2003-10-06 08:04 ]

Hrith

Oct 6, 2003, 10:44 AM

You're forgetting the J/Z BIG advantage for the RAmarl. : Not big enough to get her doing more damage.
lmao, we all know that calculator is bullshit. Zalure does natter : Justy (0%native) equipped, offline Bartle = 200 damage, with Shifta = 260, with Shifta & Zalure = 300, imagine the difference on strond attacks, and on strong attacks with a very powerful rifle (YASMINKOV 3000R, for instance) with high native %

With Shifta+Zalure Lv20, RAmarl is by far the most powerful Ranger. : Please back up what you have to say.
I did. There is no way a ranger can deal more damage than the RAmarl, offline. Online mode is irrelevant here

2nd best ATA: 2nd, backseat to the RAmar.
Like 8 ATA make a difference at 240+, lol

Good MST for a non Force : Wowie, Rangers can shoot with many types of guns, making all attack techs not worth it.
I only use Foie on DF's last form, while he is iinvincible, he hates it !
Sometimes Gifoie to kill monsters through walls/doors.
Lower HP and good MST means healing in one Resta while you'd need three (compensates for extra time casting Jellen and/or Zalure)

And decent DFP: Ramars have what you'd call decent HP, and bosses aren't gonna give a care about DFP, now are they ?
Some do. Only Vol Opt, Dark Falz & Olga do Set damage, actually -- while darvants still do physical damage, but that's almost irrelevant.

And Jellen is a BIG asset, I actually use Jellen very often, while Zalure... Offline Ruins Del-D deals less than 100 to my RAmarl (SACRED CLOTH/SECURE FEET equipped, no big DFP stuff, you'll agree) with Deband & Jellen on, laughable

And I think he is UGLY http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
I mean his stats would NOT hinder me from picking him, but his looks does, that was my point.

Lede

Oct 6, 2003, 11:27 AM

As far as iv seen the only bosses that ignore def are falz and olga, all the rest require def so that really not make a valid point.

Hrith

Oct 6, 2003, 03:14 PM

Vol Opt too and some of the other bosses attacks of course

Genoa

Oct 6, 2003, 03:26 PM

On 2003-10-06 07:28, Olga-Rappy wrote:
Ouch. Lede, you deserve every bit of that.

I'm not going to bother reading anything anyone else has said, as I can't stand bickering, so if you've seen this before, don't stop me.

THEY ARE ALL EQUAL, ESPECIALLY THE RAMAR AND RAMARL. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS WHETHER YOU WANT TO HIT MULTIPE ENEMIES WITH A SLIGHTLY BETTER RAFOIE, OR A SLIGHTLY MORE ACCURATE SHOT.

That's all. And yes, RAmars have only slightly weaker techs. And yes, RAmarls do only miss slightly more with shots, and do slightly less damage. Both of them are the same in every other respect, be it using Rifles, Mechguns, Double Sabres, Launchers, or taking hits from enemies. That's right, THE SAME.

So please, don't complain about a character being bad in anything other than your personal opinion. because that's all it rests on - your skill, and your mental image of "good-looking".

[ This Message was edited by: Olga-Rappy on 2003-10-06 07:33 ]

slightly, whatever. There's a BIG difference. RAmar's mst is horrible compared to RAmarl. And the ATA is also a HUGE difference. My friend has a lvl 55 RAmar and my lvl 106 RAmarl have about the same ATA and I have about 350 more MST than him. And he's wearing the mag with 60 mind, mine is only 12! Slightly different, whatever!

Shin-Volcano

Oct 6, 2003, 05:16 PM

Slighty? yes it is do not compare stupid low levels try 150+ it is slighty, and when they max its a stupid to think there is a big diffrence, but saying its a HUGE at stupid low level like 1-50 or 50-100 when it does not really matter, thats not really good enough, yes slighty and it stands.

"omg i have a huge diffrece and im still in hard mode! cool!" pfffft

Da_Wrecka

Oct 6, 2003, 06:05 PM

On 2003-10-06 08:44, Kefka wrote:
And Jellen is a BIG asset, I actually use Jellen very often, while Zalure... Offline Ruins Del-D deals less than 100 to my RAmarl (SACRED CLOTH/SECURE FEET equipped, no big DFP stuff, you'll agree) with Deband & Jellen on, laughable

Amen to that. Zalure isn't really useful unless it's being used by a Force, because while you're Zaluring the nasties are getting in your face and making you eat your own nose. Jellen, on the other hand, CRIPPLES enemies from Ult Mines/CCA onwards, and is still helpful for earlier nasties. If you want to regard Zalure as mostly useless, go right ahead. (I only ever use Zalure when I'm playing with non-FOs, never when I'm soloing or playing with other FOs) Anyone who says Jellen is worthless is either retarded or is just arguing for the sake of it.

(On a similar note Deband is also rather worthless, because it just doesn't reduce damage to the same extent that Jellen does.)

Shin-Volcano

Oct 6, 2003, 06:19 PM

[quote]Amen to that. Zalure isn't really useful unless it's being used by a Force, because while you're Zaluring the nasties are getting in your face and making you eat your own nose. Jellen, on the other hand, CRIPPLES enemies from Ult Mines/CCA onwards, and is still helpful for earlier nasties. If you want to regard Zalure as mostly useless, go right ahead. (I only ever use Zalure when I'm playing with non-FOs, never when I'm soloing or playing with other FOs) Anyone who says Jellen is worthless is either retarded or is just arguing for the sake of it.

(On a similar note Deband is also rather worthless, because it just doesn't reduce damage to the same extent that Jellen does.)
_________________
I agree with you on the jellen but either you just dont like defense or you claim your self to be just flawless, no zalure, no deband? whats next no resta?

DOG21313

Oct 6, 2003, 07:22 PM

On 2003-10-06 08:44, Kefka wrote:

You're forgetting the J/Z BIG advantage for the RAmarl. : Not big enough to get her doing more damage.
lmao, we all know that calculator is bullshit. Zalure does natter : Justy (0%native) equipped, offline Bartle = 200 damage, with Shifta = 260, with Shifta & Zalure = 300, imagine the difference on strond attacks, and on strong attacks with a very powerful rifle (YASMINKOV 3000R, for instance) with high native %

Ok, its not fair if you give the RAmarl with a better percentage gun and the RAmar with a worse one to compare, that calculator works fine, tested myself to make sure, and RAmar does more damage even when the enemies have zalure 20 and Shifta 20 against them with a RAmarl while the RAmar only has Shifta 15 and doesn't have to waste time casting jellen/zalure

With Shifta+Zalure Lv20, RAmarl is by far the most powerful Ranger. : Please back up what you have to say.
I did. There is no way a ranger can deal more damage than the RAmarl, offline. Online mode is irrelevant here

No, you really didn't back it up, and online to offline, you just get the enemies weaker by a bit, same basic stuff, RAmar does more.

2nd best ATA: 2nd, backseat to the RAmar.
Like 8 ATA make a difference at 240+, lol

Yes, it does. On that rare occasion the RA's miss, the RAmarl is going to be the one left crying cause the RAmar hit.

Good MST for a non Force : Wowie, Rangers can shoot with many types of guns, making all attack techs not worth it.
I only use Foie on DF's last form, while he is iinvincible, he hates it !
Sometimes Gifoie to kill monsters through walls/doors.
Lower HP and good MST means healing in one Resta while you'd need three (compensates for extra time casting Jellen and/or Zalure)

I have a HUmar, and the healing thing isn't that bad, healing in 2 restas instead of one. Also, having more TP/MST means fluids don't heal you as much, you have to use 2-3 once you go way down. Also, RAmars can use foie too, why wouldn't they?

And decent DFP: Ramars have what you'd call decent HP, and bosses aren't gonna give a care about DFP, now are they?
Some do. Only Vol Opt, Dark Falz & Olga do Set damage, actually -- while darvants still do physical damage, but that's almost irrelevant.

Actually, I just looked, both De Rol Le and Dragon have certain HP taking attacks too. I didn't bother looking at EP 2 bosses.

And Jellen is a BIG asset, I actually use Jellen very often, while Zalure... Offline Ruins Del-D deals less than 100 to my RAmarl (SACRED CLOTH/SECURE FEET equipped, no big DFP stuff, you'll agree) with Deband & Jellen on, laughable

Again, you're misinterpreting, I never said it wasn't, but rangers are supposed to be RANGED, hence the name, so they really shouldn't be being hit that much, unless you've decided to go melee.

And I think he is UGLY http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
I mean his stats would NOT hinder me from picking him, but his looks does, that was my point.

I know, but others don't think the same way you do, so thats just your opinion, and has no place in an argument. If you were to ask me, I'd say that the RAmarl is more ugly than a RAmar, because she wears so much make up stuff she looks like my sisters, who look like clowns.

And as I said before, each is good for its own thing. Like someone said earlier, RAmar is suited to team play with a force, and RAmarl is better suited to single play w/o a force. This in no way means that RAmars cant survive without a force. Also, if you were to say that, I'd come back saying: Well when a RAmarl is online with a force, then there will be no use for her less than FO quality MST and Techs, so that advantage goes down the can.

[ This Message was edited by: DOG21313 on 2003-10-06 17:30 ]

Android8968

Oct 6, 2003, 11:18 PM

well i think ramars are pretty cool even though my main char is a HUmar.

Spider

Oct 7, 2003, 04:07 AM

I've pretty much had a good run with all the characters except HUcaseal, RAcaceal and FOnewm. I find the HUmar the best, using sword type weapon, hacking up hoardes of monsters, and switching to mechguns during the heat of battle when comething big strides your way, of course switching to rares every now and then for a bit more fun, personally I find them most strategic, but they probobly dont seem that way to some. RAs in general are too boring for me, just sit back and shoot, pretty easy if you dont want a challenge. I currently have FOnewearl, too bloody powerful, just remember to pipe up and refill your magic needs every 5 minutes and you can mop up anything ridiculously quick, using it melee would be quite the challenge though, havn't fought many bosses with it yet, so yeah, I would say you would have to learn the bosses pretty well so they dont hit you and sloughter you with one hit!

Hrith

Oct 7, 2003, 08:20 AM

Since the two of us have made our point (except my RAmarl clearly deals more damage than the RAmar, offline), I just wanna add that I do go melee with her, here are the weapons I use most :
FLIGHT FAN
FLIGHT CUTTER
GOD HAND
TWIN BRAND
RED SABER
DB's SWORD (AUW 3075)
MORNING GLORY
TWIN CHAKRAM
RAINBOW BATON
YAMIGARASU

A friend of mine's got a Lv 185 RAmar, he still cannot go melee in Ruins and CCA, hardly in mine (the point is he would like to). Offline, critical attacks from Del-D, Dark Bringer, etc... make him fall, while they deal about 100 to me.

Also, I agree that most RAmarls I've seen online look bad.
I'll show you mine someday, she looks AWESOME, damn I like her !

Oh and I never miss with her, and my ATA is not even maxed (about 231 I think)

[ This Message was edited by: Kefka on 2003-10-07 06:27 ]

Da_Wrecka

Oct 7, 2003, 03:37 PM

On 2003-10-06 16:19, Shin-Volcano wrote:
I agree with you on the jellen but either you just dont like defense or you claim your self to be just flawless, no zalure, no deband? whats next no resta?

Read what I said again, and then put it into this context; Whenever I'm playing with my Force offline she ALWAYS goes for tech damage because her physical damage is pitiful. Sub-L25 Zalure doesn't really have a dramatic impact on the amount of damage done. (One of the key reasons you shouldn't waste TP on Zalure in C-mode if you're the Force) Similarly, sub-L25 Deband doesn't provide a dramatic boost to DFP, limiting its use. On the other hand Shifta makes a big difference to the amount of damage you can do, while even low-level Jellen makes a big difference to the amount of damage you take. If you're not a FO then Zalure is a waste of time because in the time it takes you to cast the Zalure, you could do more damage than the Zalure would add up to, while if you're a FOnewm or FOnewearl it's worthless anyway, as Zalure has absolutely no impact on technique damage. (Don't believe me? Take a FOnewearl to Ult Forest. Slap a Bartle with Foie and note the damage, then Zalure him and Foie him again. I guarantee you the two figures will be equal unless you manage to level between one Foie and the second) FOmarls and FOmars might benefit from Zalure but they're the only ones who should be using it for themselves. Deband CAN mean the difference between getting up again or getting waxed, but it doesn't soften blows anywhere near as much as Jellen does, even low-level Jellen, thus its usefulness is limited too.

Multiplayer modes are another matter, because the Zalure DOES help kill stuff faster, and since multiplayer has more enemies it makes a bigger difference. It's still nowhere near as dramatic as Shifta is though.

[ This Message was edited by: Da_Wrecka on 2003-10-07 16:39 ]

DOG21313

Oct 7, 2003, 06:05 PM

On 2003-10-07 06:20, Kefka wrote:
Since the two of us have made our point (except my RAmarl clearly deals more damage than the RAmar, offline), I just wanna add that I do go melee with her, here are the weapons I use most :
FLIGHT FAN
FLIGHT CUTTER
GOD HAND
TWIN BRAND
RED SABER
DB's SWORD (AUW 3075)
MORNING GLORY
TWIN CHAKRAM
RAINBOW BATON
YAMIGARASU

A friend of mine's got a Lv 185 RAmar, he still cannot go melee in Ruins and CCA, hardly in mine (the point is he would like to). Offline, critical attacks from Del-D, Dark Bringer, etc... make him fall, while they deal about 100 to me.

Also, I agree that most RAmarls I've seen online look bad.
I'll show you mine someday, she looks AWESOME, damn I like her!

Oh and I never miss with her, and my ATA is not even maxed (about 231 I think)

I said earlier, RAmarls go melee easier cause they have more DFP and EVP. Thats why RAmars get the extra ATA, so they can stand back and special attack the enemies. Thats what they're good at. And its not possible to NEVER miss, you'd have to sometime, and like I said, when that time comes, you'll be the one missing. Also, the meleeing part, RAmars have lower EVP/DFP, we stated that before, but RAmars do better with bosses. Also, are you online? If so, I'd like to see your RAmarl soon, I've tried as hard as I could when I created my RAmarl, and couldn't make her look good, so I abandoned her. It was so annoying to have to look at something like my sisters even when I'm playing a game. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Suppa_Buddha

Oct 7, 2003, 06:53 PM

I think of the levels as the age of the character. As the levels(age) increases the older the characters gets and the older a characters get the crappier it'll get. Thats how I think of it.

Lede

Oct 8, 2003, 03:11 PM

[quote]Read what I said again, and then put it into this context; Whenever I'm playing with my Force offline she ALWAYS goes for tech damage because her physical damage is pitiful. Sub-L25 Zalure doesn't really have a dramatic impact on the amount of damage done. (One of the key reasons you shouldn't waste TP on Zalure in C-mode if you're the Force) Similarly, sub-L25 Deband doesn't provide a dramatic boost to DFP, limiting its use. On the other hand Shifta makes a big difference to the amount of damage you can do, while even low-level Jellen makes a big difference to the amount of damage you take. If you're not a FO then Zalure is a waste of time because in the time it takes you to cast the Zalure, you could do more damage than the Zalure would add up to, while if you're a FOnewm or FOnewearl it's worthless anyway, as Zalure has absolutely no impact on technique damage. (Don't believe me? Take a FOnewearl to Ult Forest. Slap a Bartle with Foie and note the damage, then Zalure him and Foie him again. I guarantee you the two figures will be equal unless you manage to level between one Foie and the second) FOmarls and FOmars might benefit from Zalure but they're the only ones who should be using it for themselves. Deband CAN mean the difference between getting up again or getting waxed, but it doesn't soften blows anywhere near as much as Jellen does, even low-level Jellen, thus its usefulness is limited too.

Multiplayer modes are another matter, because the Zalure DOES help kill stuff faster, and since multiplayer has more enemies it makes a bigger difference. It's still nowhere near as dramatic as Shifta is though.

I read what you said quite clearly, but you are basing it off forces, some people dont play forces at all so zalure is WELL used and VERY usefull, level 30 as well, zalure is not useless in the eyes of a "Pro" becuase it means they "die" quicker. what you just stated is for people that use ONLY forces, use a racasel/hucasel or even a humar and go thru online ruins and say zalure is not useful.

Try MAXING the zalures level then post again, in c mode zalure/jellen hell any support but resta its uselss well next to it becuase there level is to low

PABLOparavida

Oct 8, 2003, 03:59 PM

Ramars are awesome. in my opinion the best ranger out there.

DOG21313

Oct 8, 2003, 06:08 PM

On 2003-10-08 13:11, Lede wrote:
[quote]Read what I said again, and then put it into this context; Whenever I'm playing with my Force offline she ALWAYS goes for tech damage because her physical damage is pitiful. Sub-L25 Zalure doesn't really have a dramatic impact on the amount of damage done. (One of the key reasons you shouldn't waste TP on Zalure in C-mode if you're the Force) Similarly, sub-L25 Deband doesn't provide a dramatic boost to DFP, limiting its use. On the other hand Shifta makes a big difference to the amount of damage you can do, while even low-level Jellen makes a big difference to the amount of damage you take. If you're not a FO then Zalure is a waste of time because in the time it takes you to cast the Zalure, you could do more damage than the Zalure would add up to, while if you're a FOnewm or FOnewearl it's worthless anyway, as Zalure has absolutely no impact on technique damage. (Don't believe me? Take a FOnewearl to Ult Forest. Slap a Bartle with Foie and note the damage, then Zalure him and Foie him again. I guarantee you the two figures will be equal unless you manage to level between one Foie and the second) FOmarls and FOmars might benefit from Zalure but they're the only ones who should be using it for themselves. Deband CAN mean the difference between getting up again or getting waxed, but it doesn't soften blows anywhere near as much as Jellen does, even low-level Jellen, thus its usefulness is limited too.

Multiplayer modes are another matter, because the Zalure DOES help kill stuff faster, and since multiplayer has more enemies it makes a bigger difference. It's still nowhere near as dramatic as Shifta is though.

I read what you said quite clearly, but you are basing it off forces, some people dont play forces at all so zalure is WELL used and VERY usefull, level 30 as well, zalure is not useless in the eyes of a "Pro" becuase it means they "die" quicker. what you just stated is for people that use ONLY forces, use a racasel/hucasel or even a humar and go thru online ruins and say zalure is not useful.

Try MAXING the zalures level then post again, in c mode zalure/jellen hell any support but resta its uselss well next to it becuase there level is to low

If you were aiming that at me, I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't base anything off forces at all... And I have gone into ruins Ult and used Jellen/Zalure, and know how it affects the enemies. Now, I am going to say this for hopefully the last time:

I never said J/Z don't make a difference!

Er... and that is if you were aiming that at me... and I really am confused about that post... it was almost like you were aiming it at yourself or something...

Da_Wrecka

Oct 8, 2003, 10:11 PM

On 2003-10-08 13:11, Lede wrote:
I read what you said quite clearly,

Obviously not. Do you actually bother to read and digest what someone says before going off half-cocked? Certainly doesn't seem that way since you seem to be ignoring about 90% of WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID.

but you are basing it off forces, some people dont play forces at all so zalure is WELL used and VERY usefull, level 30 as well, zalure is not useless in the eyes of a "Pro" becuase it means they "die" quicker. what you just stated is for people that use ONLY forces, use a racasel/hucasel or even a humar and go thru online ruins and say zalure is not useful.

And the part where I said "multiplayer modes are a different matter" was beyond your comprehension?

Try MAXING the zalures level then post again,

My L154 FOnewearl has had her support techs maxed for a while now, for your information. And yes, when I play it's mostly online. Her L30 Zalure makes a difference online because, due to the insane ATPs of the other players involved, it normally adds up very fast. L15 or L20 Zalure adds up far, far slower however.

in c mode zalure/jellen hell any support but resta its uselss well next to it becuase there level is to low

Good grief, are you really that retarded? Try going through C9 after telling the Force to never Resta anybody but themselves, and then tell me it's worthless. Resta is a LIFESAVER in C-mode, and if you believe it isn't you're either retarded or you haven't played any C-mode beyond maybe C4. And Zalure in C-mode only ever increases damage by maybe 3-5 per hit. It's simply more worthwhile to conserve the TP for Shifta/Resta. Remember that fluids are limited in C-mode so every tech counts.

Olga-Rappy

Oct 9, 2003, 01:28 AM

It's about time somebody closed this topic. Lede's b*tching has completely ruined it.

Ketchup345

Oct 9, 2003, 05:39 AM

Quote:

in c mode zalure/jellen hell any support but resta its uselss well next to it becuase there level is to low

Good grief, are you really that retarded? Try going through C9 after telling the Force to never Resta anybody but themselves, and then tell me it's worthless. Resta is a LIFESAVER in C-mode, and if you believe it isn't you're either retarded or you haven't played any C-mode beyond maybe C4. And Zalure in C-mode only ever increases damage by maybe 3-5 per hit. It's simply more worthwhile to conserve the TP for Shifta/Resta. Remember that fluids are limited in C-mode so every tech counts.

Actually he meant that Resta is the only support worth using.

And Olga-Rappy, I agree it is about time this thread needs a lock.

Anyway I'll say it again:

Ketchup345 wrote:

Ok, to end all this fighting, both RAmar and RAmarl are equivalent.

Stat: RAmar: RAmarl: Difference:
HP: 1770 1565 > (205)
TP: 704 931 < (227)
ATP: 1260 1145 > (115)
DFP: 515 577 < (62)
MST: 665 1031 < (366)
ATA: 249 241 > (8)
EVP: 715 900 < (185)
Luck: 100 100 = (0)

Total stat difference: RAmar (328) < RAmarl (840)
512 point difference total.

But, the RAmar is best for online/multiplayer with a FOrce. The RAmarl is best for single player/multiplayer with no and/or HUnewearl.

[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2003-10-09 03:44 ]

Mystil

Oct 9, 2003, 08:37 AM

Well I know it must suck that RAmars can't JZ. By the day however I am seeing less and less of them. They are like the Equivalant to FOmarls. They were untouched by ST, except a few additions.

gallaugher

Oct 9, 2003, 10:15 AM

Why on earth would you want to go melee with a RAmarl? Unless you just need a change of pace & take a Double Saber through Forest I fail to see the point. I don't even use Saber types with my HUcaseal because of the lame ass animation.

Ketchup345

Oct 9, 2003, 01:53 PM

On 2003-10-09 08:15, gallaugher wrote:
Why on earth would you want to go melee with a RAmarl? Unless you just need a change of pace & take a Double Saber through Forest I fail to see the point. I don't even use Saber types with my HUcaseal because of the lame ass animation.

People may melee with a RAmarl because they have the highest EVP in the game (800 max). They also have enough DFP to make it work.
Plus, they can use a few HUnter items:
Some daggers (Sinow)
Partisan class
Sabers
Double Sabers

Hrith

Oct 9, 2003, 02:06 PM

I'm sorry DOG21313, I'm in London right now & I won't go back home (France) until 20th December, I'll get online then, if you're still there http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

*Agrees with Da_wrecka on use of techniques in C-mode* Beat C-mode 11 times on DC, 6 times on NGC

What do you mean when you say you're better at bosses ? There's no way I'm dying at any boss, so do you mean you kill them faster ? Vol Opt ver.2 & Gol Dragon, maybe, since I cannot Zalure them, but we should fare the same on other bosses ("fare" lol).

I play mostly offline, that accounts for my never missing since offline monsters have much less EVP http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Kefka on 2003-10-09 12:12 ]

Ranger_Larry

Oct 9, 2003, 06:37 PM

On 2003-10-09 12:06, Kefka wrote:
I'm sorry DOG21313, I'm in London right now & I won't go back home (France) until 20th December, I'll get online then, if you're still there http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

*Agrees with Da_wrecka on use of techniques in C-mode* Beat C-mode 11 times on DC, 6 times on NGC

What do you mean when you say you're better at bosses ? There's no way I'm dying at any boss, so do you mean you kill them faster ? Vol Opt ver.2 & Gol Dragon, maybe, since I cannot Zalure them, but we should fare the same on other bosses ("fare" lol).

I play mostly offline, that accounts for my never missing since offline monsters have much less EVP http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Kefka on 2003-10-09 12:12 ]
ONLINE Falz will completely own low HP chars with his massive RABARTA and RAFOIE blasts. Only resistances and HP will save you, and resistances are equal for everyone, leaving HP left. Online Vol Opt V.2 also does quite a bit of damage with his elemental attacks, and that prison thing he does, is about 1500ish online. Olga drains alot of HP too, and with his massive mag blast, it'll kill till over 2,000 hp!

DOG21313

Oct 9, 2003, 07:05 PM

Ok, I'm going away on a trip tommorow, so someone watch or lock this for me.

1st thing I'd like to say: Ketchup(er...however you have your name =) ) Don't compare how many more stat points each has, there isn't really a point because stats are worth different things. Best example: ATA. Its always the lowest stat but it counts for a lot more. It matures slower than other stats, so it wouldn't be fair to add up the points a RAmarl has to how much a RAmar has, cuz RAmar has ATA as one of his advantages, it just wouldn't be that fair.

2nd: To Kefka: I mean survives easier, that is, if you were talking to me... I couldn't tell, but I think you were. Anyways, Ranger_Larry said what I would have... I think. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Ketchup345

Oct 9, 2003, 07:32 PM

On 2003-10-09 17:05, DOG21313 wrote:
Ok, I'm going away on a trip tommorow, so someone watch or lock this for me.

1st thing I'd like to say: Ketchup(er...however you have your name =) ) Don't compare how many more stat points each has, there isn't really a point because stats are worth different things. Best example: ATA. Its always the lowest stat but it counts for a lot more. It matures slower than other stats, so it wouldn't be fair to add up the points a RAmarl has to how much a RAmar has, cuz RAmar has ATA as one of his advantages, it just wouldn't be that fair.

The point I was trying to make was that each is better in different things, and I couldn't find a way to have the stats balanced easily.

But anyway, RAmarl is better for solo, or any team without either a FOrce or a HUnewearl, and a RAmar is better with those groups I mentioned. They are probably the two closet characters in the game, maybe FOmar/FOmarl are about the same in difference, except, the FOmarl is more useful in Multi.

[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2003-10-09 17:33 ]

Ranger_Larry

Oct 9, 2003, 07:37 PM

Yep http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I rarely die at ult falz. When I do die it's my fault, not my chars. (being too aggressive and get caught in a fluke darvant horde after a rabarta or rafoie blast, only to find my mag blast is covering my resta and trimate, those kinds of things) Vol opt I can take off all god hps and take anything he dishes out, even the prison, and still have several hundred hp left. Flow only gets me once in a blue moon with his insane "mag blast". (the over 2,000 ones!)

Insanetrio

Oct 9, 2003, 10:39 PM

I haven't bothered to read all of this topic but I think it is STUPID !! I have a RAmar lvl 132 and from all my exp he has done better and worse that RAmarls.My sister has a lvl 124 RAmarl and I have nothing against it or other RAmarls. I think our resta is just fine too. Don't diss any class unless you want to get dissed, all this does is create fighting,so everyone just let this topic die! Who cares who is best?? Not me, nor should you! Everyone likes and dislikes certain classes, but that dosen't mean the one they like is better. Thankyou for reading.

[ This Message was edited by: Insanetrio on 2003-10-09 20:44 ]

AlphaMinotaux

Oct 9, 2003, 11:58 PM

that is so true. But RACAST's are still da best ranger.love that ATP and HP

Shin-Volcano

Oct 10, 2003, 08:22 AM

Yea your right why diss a class that already disses it self (Ramar) so yea i agree with you there.

as far a the online falz thin goes, my ramarl was level 106 when she took on online falz alone, and never died once, you know if you where A EXPERT you would know how to take care of that hp prob. equal nothing. maybe at level 1 ramar and ramarl are equal, that about it.

Hrith

Oct 10, 2003, 09:03 AM

Well I use ATTRIBUTE WALL and PLATE on him, his Rafoie does not even make me fall, his Rabarta deals from 200 to 600 Damage to my RAmarl, which is not even half my HP.
His purple rays from above deals less than 900, one Resta is enough to cure that (my Resta does NOT heal by 900, lol)
His third form's slap, is annoying but deals around 900 too, so no big deal. His series of blue balls he throws at one character when he is up there sometimes kill me whem I get hit by two at the same time http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif but they do my HUcast, too http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

Vol Opt ver.2's prison attack is soooooooo easy to avoid, even if it would kill me online, I do hope I can count on the others to free me !!!

Olga Flow never kills me, since I'm always way too far for him to hit me with his purple rays. His DARK FLOW attack does not kill me.

But hey ! I'm Lv 161, right !

[ This Message was edited by: Kefka on 2003-10-10 07:04 ]

Ranger_Larry

Oct 10, 2003, 03:42 PM

On 2003-10-10 06:22, Shin-Volcano wrote:
Yea your right why diss a class that already disses it self (Ramar) so yea i agree with you there.

as far a the online falz thin goes, my ramarl was level 106 when she took on online falz alone, and never died once, you know if you where A EXPERT you would know how to take care of that hp prob. equal nothing. maybe at level 1 ramar and ramarl are equal, that about it.

That's funny, if you were an expert you would play whatever character you liked, regardless of stats. If you were an expert you could overcome the lack of J/Z and the much higher healing resta *rolleyes*. If you are a guy and don't like pretending to be a girl, then ya, use the ramar. I'm a guy, and I like guns. So ramar it is, and racast too. My freinds from DC pick the appropriate sex of characters too. (both girls) I also know several from GC that never cross either. If you are a guy, don't "cross the line", and have alot of characters, you are going to end up using ramar and humar. There is a reason they are so popular, people identify themselves through them.

Maybe I should make a ramarLLLL named LARRY just so I have some better stats? *rolleyes* By the way alot of people say, (usually the net geeks) LARRY VeR.2, thats a boring name!! Well, I was LARRY !! on DC and when people see me, they know who I am. Not many people forget me either, as opposed to the millions of people that use various anime and other obscure "cool" names out there. Alot of those people you look at the guild card list a week later and can't tell one from the other http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif (was he blue? short? what did he say? ect.)

About that lv 106 crap, yeah sometimes you get LUCKY. Sometimes he is easy, other times he constantly drops down and never lets you hit him, and all he does is rafoie/rabarta.

If I really feel the need to impress people, I don't die either. But I don't feel like changing armors/units ect. bigtime just for the boss. I've killed him a thousand times and it's not exactly a "frightening" experience. I don't feel the need to play at 100% all the time in a game where all yo u do is "level". When I first got the game almost a year ago I was like that too, nooooo don't die!! Now I just carry around the same old stuff wherever I go so I don't need to take that annoying pipe up to town just to get something. On xbox it wasn't bad but gc takes too long to save.

Also it's funny how much you and Lede get all fanatical about video game characters. It's segas fault ramar and humar don't have j/z, s/d ect., or a higher level of each. They must have said hmmmmm, let's make characters that have BOTH for people that are too lazy to avoid attacks! You do realize all you have to do is jiggle the pad a little, and you make them miss by inches. Maybe they also ripped of ra/humar because they knew they were so popular, and didn't want the game to be too easy online?

It's also funny people always pick on ramar, but there are other classes out there that are even MORE challenging to play. (which to you smart asses means SUCK more.) Not to pick on it, but as an example. (we all know hucaseals have reached level 200 and if they "sucked" I doubt SNK would have wasted all that time leveling the char.) ramar has MORE Hp, only 10 less defense, (yes a whopping 10), the frozen shooter/snow queen replaces traps just nicely, and can resta himself, and has deband to make him much tougher than a hucaseal. (would end up with higher def and higher hp) The evasion isn't a huge deal to a ramar, and the power is only 40ish less, and again, he has shifta. Yes, hunters use more powerful weapons and can kill a little faster, but it's not that much faster.

On the flip side I could also say your ramarl and hunewearls sucked because a real force with lv 30 s/d and j/z and techs that can clear rooms ALOT faster are better still........

Get my point? (long ramble) Just play the damn game and let people use who they choose, it's just a GAME. If I wanna win battle mode I'll HU hp glitch a hucast and reco him to 155ish, then max him out. Then I'll use this certain little weapon........ (it won't matter what you cast on me you die fast anyways...)

[ This Message was edited by: Ranger_Larry on 2003-10-10 13:52 ]

Olga-Rappy

Oct 10, 2003, 03:45 PM

Okay, after a LOT of games spent observing differences, I've come to the following conclusions -

RAmarls:RAmars::FOnewm:FOnewearl - The RAmarls are more balanced, whereas the RAmar simply has THE highest ATA and a pretty High ATP, similar to the FOnewearl with high EVP and the Highest MST - she's great, but nowhere near as balanced as the lower-MST FOnewm.

RAmars can melee, RAmarls can't - just toss them a Stag Cutlery or Yamigarasu and a Cobat gear.

RAmarls can use techs effectively, RAmars can't - Level 20 Rafoie does many things, clearing enough grunts so you can attack the larger enemies without distraction is among the more wonderful ones. Level 20 Shifta and Zalure, and a Yasminkov 7000 needs no explanation either.

Ranger_Larry

Oct 10, 2003, 03:56 PM

On 2003-10-10 13:45, Olga-Rappy wrote:
Okay, after a LOT of games spent observing differences, I've come to the following conclusions -

RAmarls:RAmars::FOnewm:FOnewearl - The RAmarls are more balanced, whereas the RAmar simply has THE highest ATA and a pretty High ATP, similar to the FOnewearl with high EVP and the Highest MST - she's great, but nowhere near as balanced as the lower-MST FOnewm.

RAmars can melee, RAmarls can't - just toss them a Stag Cutlery or Yamigarasu and a Cobat gear.

RAmarls can use techs effectively, RAmars can't - Level 20 Rafoie does many things, clearing enough grunts so you can attack the larger enemies without distraction is among the more wonderful ones. Level 20 Shifta and Zalure, and a Yasminkov 7000 needs no explanation either.

After thinking another minute, we are using OUR characters and skills in this debate, which may not apply to everyone. This rule still holds true if you look at it in the real world. (no liers saying they own falz online solo never die lv 90 ect.) ramar better at bosses, (last two especially), ramarls better for the normal levels. However, each can hold their own at either place anyways, if you know how to play.

Olga-Rappy

Oct 10, 2003, 04:00 PM

...You completely missed the point.

Each of them has no real difference, except if you count stats, and the two extremes of playing a Ranger - Like a force, and like a hunter.

Not everyone plays extremes. Thus, the only difference signifigant to most people, who fall in between, is that RAmarls focus on Balance, not high ATA and ATP only

Mystil

Oct 10, 2003, 04:01 PM

On 2003-10-09 11:53, Ketchup345 wrote:

On 2003-10-09 08:15, gallaugher wrote:
Why on earth would you want to go melee with a RAmarl? Unless you just need a change of pace & take a Double Saber through Forest I fail to see the point. I don't even use Saber types with my HUcaseal because of the lame ass animation.

People may melee with a RAmarl because they have the highest EVP in the game (800 max). They also have enough DFP to make it work.
Plus, they can use a few HUnter items:
Some daggers (Sinow)
Partisan class
Sabers
Double Sabers

You mean they have the highest EVP among the Rangers. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif And I have to disagree about the DFP thing. It's cause of the DFP rating(which is too low for me) why I ditched my then lv56 RAmarl, and reincarnated her into a HUnewearl.

[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2003-10-10 14:02 ]

LamerPanda

Oct 10, 2003, 05:11 PM

On 2003-10-02 13:16, EvilNixon666 wrote:
My main character started out as a Ramar and I re-created him for the GC PSO.

There are no good classes, only good players. You can make any class rock if you have the SKILLS.

Same situation and opinion, really.

I've played as other classes, but my RAmar is still the highest level character I have.

Ketchup345

Oct 10, 2003, 05:47 PM

On 2003-10-10 14:01, Silhouette wrote:

On 2003-10-09 11:53, Ketchup345 wrote:

On 2003-10-09 08:15, gallaugher wrote:
Why on earth would you want to go melee with a RAmarl? Unless you just need a change of pace & take a Double Saber through Forest I fail to see the point. I don't even use Saber types with my HUcaseal because of the lame ass animation.

People may melee with a RAmarl because they have the highest EVP in the game (800 max). They also have enough DFP to make it work.
Plus, they can use a few HUnter items:
Some daggers (Sinow)
Partisan class
Sabers
Double Sabers

You mean they have the highest EVP among the Rangers. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif And I have to disagree about the DFP thing. It's cause of the DFP rating(which is too low for me) why I ditched my then lv56 RAmarl, and reincarnated her into a HUnewearl.

Actually, RAmarls have the highest EVP in the GAME at 900 EVP, FOnewearl has 2nd best at 883, the HUcaseal has the 3nd highest at 877. RAmarls also have better defense than RAmars but not as good as the RAcaseal which has the highest DFP out of the RAngers (maybe the game, I'm not quite sure), not sure about DFP between RAmarl and RAcast either.

Plus Olga-Rappy, RAmarls are better at melee because of the higher EVP and DFP.

Edit: Few number changes.

[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2003-10-10 15:57 ]

Ranger_Larry

Oct 11, 2003, 06:24 AM

Actually, RAmarls have the highest EVP in the GAME at 900 EVP, FOnewearl has 2nd best at 883. Doesn't that make you wonder what they were smoking when they made these stats up! WHY do they have more evasion points then a HU?!

Logical2u

Oct 11, 2003, 06:35 AM

I'll admit that RAmars are stereotyped due to the maxed ATA users, and they are definately NOT the best Ranger class, especially for CMode, they are good characters if you know how to raise them. FOr example, Shifta and Deband works wonders in a HUmar/RAcast game and you are the only RAmar. Their resta isn't that great (about 300 HP a resta for about 27 TP) and their techs are lacking but they can be a pretty well rounded character. They are ugly but you can have face type 4 and hide their face.

And every class'es highs and lows are determined by your own skill.

Ranger_Larry

Oct 11, 2003, 06:56 AM

I'm soon to be 200 and my resta is 452, not great but livable. It's not going to save you in SOME situtaions, but at high level you will use maybe 1-2 trimates a level. (ruins1 till falz you use maybe a couple trimates in total, including falz) At lower levels (sub 175) you will use alot of trimate depending on how you play. (even then I used a few at falz, not much elsewhere, I know how to use a ramar)

Those HUmar/RAmar games are some of the most fun I've had on PSO. If you get a hu that uses jellen/zalure, and the ramar doing the S/D, that's what teamplay is ALL ABOUT. My HUmar is lv 70 and will soon be seeing lots of action because TODAY my RAmar turns 200 http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif and will be kinda "retired". I'll use him sometimes, but maybe for like an hour at a shot a couple times a week, nothing like I used to.

Mystil

Oct 11, 2003, 07:02 AM

On 2003-10-10 15:47, Ketchup345 wrote:

On 2003-10-10 14:01, Silhouette wrote:

On 2003-10-09 11:53, Ketchup345 wrote:

On 2003-10-09 08:15, gallaugher wrote:
Why on earth would you want to go melee with a RAmarl? Unless you just need a change of pace & take a Double Saber through Forest I fail to see the point. I don't even use Saber types with my HUcaseal because of the lame ass animation.

People may melee with a RAmarl because they have the highest EVP in the game (800 max). They also have enough DFP to make it work.
Plus, they can use a few HUnter items:
Some daggers (Sinow)
Partisan class
Sabers
Double Sabers

You mean they have the highest EVP among the Rangers. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif And I have to disagree about the DFP thing. It's cause of the DFP rating(which is too low for me) why I ditched my then lv56 RAmarl, and reincarnated her into a HUnewearl.

Actually, RAmarls have the highest EVP in the GAME at 900 EVP, FOnewearl has 2nd best at 883, the HUcaseal has the 3nd highest at 877. RAmarls also have better defense than RAmars but not as good as the RAcaseal which has the highest DFP out of the RAngers (maybe the game, I'm not quite sure), not sure about DFP between RAmarl and RAcast either.

Plus Olga-Rappy, RAmarls are better at melee because of the higher EVP and DFP.

Edit: Few number changes.

[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2003-10-10 15:57 ]

Yeah, that was a my bad there. I just checked on that (by mistake) like five minutes ago, when I was browsing pso.it site. Uhm, ok, that also makes the rest of what I said look stupid. It makes up for the sorry DFP that they have. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif (compared to other clases mind you. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif)

Hrith

Oct 11, 2003, 08:38 AM

On 2003-10-07 06:20, Kefka wrote :
I just wanna add that I do go melee with her(Terra), here are the weapons I use most :
FLIGHT FAN
FLIGHT CUTTER
GOD HAND
TWIN BRAND
RED SABER
DB's SWORD (AUW 3075)
MORNING GLORY
TWIN CHAKRAM
RAINBOW BATON
YAMIGARASU

A friend of mine's got a Lv 185 RAmar, he still cannot go melee in Ruins and CCA, hardly in mine (the point is he would like to). Offline, critical attacks from Del-D, Dark Bringer, etc... make him fall, while they deal about 100 to me.

So the RAmarl cannot go melee ? lmao
She is the best char to go melee out of Hunters.
Her DFP is more than decent, I use SACRED CLOTH or SENSE PLATE and don't lack DFP, anyway.
Besides, going melee means using powerful weapons (GOD HAND is one of the most powerful weapons in the game, RED SABER, YAMIGARASU, MORNING GLORY, etc... are very powerful, too, more than any Ranger weapons) and it is a BIG asset for the RAmarl.

Shin-Volcano

Oct 11, 2003, 03:16 PM

Experts would use a ramar larry, guess where that leaves you.

anyway it was made to balance ramarls becuase of there low hp and atp Ramarls can meele, use teqs very well even support great when needed, ramar can not do any of these things well he can but very poorly and i mean VERY. he has higest ata but its trash becuase his ata advantage is not that high,so it wont make much of a diffrence.

Ramarls max there evade at 900 which is HIGEST in the game Racasels max there DEF at 688 which is the HIGEST def in the game id pick Racasel over a ramar anyday its just common sense really.

if you want a well balanced ranger can survive on her on support her team and still strong enough NOT to be a burden then ramarl if you just want a second rate ranger who the only things hes good at is staying away and depending on help at all times then Ramar.

There is not a ramarl cant do better then a ramar.

o and larry whe my ramarl was 106 i fought him 7 times in a row ALONE and did not die "Not Once" so yea i was lucky 7 straight...sure..he did every thing he could possibly do each run, was not enough to kill me tho.

Bad def sil? there def may grow slow yes but her max def is 577 which is only 2 less the a humar.

inoticed amaxed ramarl heals about 660 hp and thats with 1031 mst she has.

[ This Message was edited by: Shin-Volcano on 2003-10-11 13:23 ]

Viperdude472

Oct 11, 2003, 03:18 PM

RAmar: easy,too easy,anoing,look dumb,lost "touch" bout the 2nd day,hate um,yep i dun like um

Ranger_Larry

Oct 11, 2003, 03:27 PM

You know, really this gets old. I hit 200 today. Ult seabed, that's how I wanted it. Ruins, ult seabed, it'd don't matter. I have a ramar and the game is very easy to me. All the people that I actually PLAY with think I ROCK. I'm usually modest but since you all brag so much on here I'll brag too. I can even "be the FO" in games of all droids plus me. Ask Deltron Zero, GYORG, ect. I have a hunewearl (32), humar (70), racast (reco to 191, yeah I was BAD so shoot me) and fonewm (124), thats besides my RAmar. I'm going to take that huney and make a ramarl and reco them to high levels and max them. Then I will see first hand what they are like on ult. online. Errrr, I'm intelligent enough to know what it's going to be like from using my FO. Shifta deband yourself, then walk in room, cast jellen, then zalure. Now just be lazy and don't worry about getting hit! Or I can use my Ramar and get hit a little harder, but eh, I have so much HP after a few whacks I'm still ok anyways. It just don't matter people, I've been there and done that. All the chars are fun to play with in their own ways. And again, I hate to use the example but there are a few characters out there that are even harder to play with than ramar, so just stfu. You bring up racaseal, fine. Great defense, good for her. #1 it better be as no resta at all, #2 also better be good because no atp and no shifta either! Ramar is balanced, racaseal is defensive. Nothing wrong with either.

Shin-Volcano

Oct 11, 2003, 04:06 PM

Racasel has something on her side to back up her low atp and no teqs, ramar doesnt have anything to back up horrible teqs, horrible mst, horrible def horrible evade, hell evey thing, he does not have high enough ata to make me say WOW i want a ramar! cause thats never gonna happen,, end of story. hes balanced yes but in a horrible low grade sort of way. if your in a game with all droids with your ramar they will be glad to get any support at all, no matter how horrible your class is at it.

You wont get anythngt out recobxing classes, you have o play thru, what t say you did not reco box that ramar the did one seabed ru to get 200 maybe thats why you cant see. it figures.

[ This Message was edited by: Shin-Volcano on 2003-10-11 14:10 ]

Ranger_Larry

Oct 11, 2003, 04:40 PM

I know the game inside and out. I got to 200 mostly legit with my ramar, and only the racast saw serious reco. 990 hours ramar, 120 or whatever for the racast at 191. Nuff said.

Ramar has frozen shooter, snow queen, ect. I don't need traps.

I had to read your crappy post a couple times to comprehend what you said. Oh, ask GYORG how I did at Seabed. Him and I went through it a month ago, ask him how many times I died. (it's ZERO) I've been through seabed/ruins more times than I can remember. It's usually mines/ruins due to the exp. being alot better. Seabed is fun but it doesn't give enough exp. to justify playing very much if you want to reach 200.

You've got a good signature, because that's all you are. An insignificant little FLAMER. Move along and let the vets handle this discussion.

[ This Message was edited by: Ranger_Larry on 2003-10-11 14:48 ]

Shin-Volcano

Oct 12, 2003, 01:32 AM

I know this game alot better then your bitch ass, so i know excalty what i am talking about you don't.

i did not bother fully reading your stupid ass post becuase its a bunch of jibberish from a retard that does not know a class from a roach on the ground.

Who gives a flying fuck if you went thru a few areas untouched (with help of course)

i how ever have been thru any and all areas ONLINE and have not died at all. but you know what this is stupid its pointless arguing with a retard who cant accept facts, so im just leave with this

Ramar<Ramarl
Racast>Ramar
Racasel>Ramar

ANY CLASS>Ramar

Nuff Said.

So shoo little noobie go recobx some more and come back after you learned what pso stands for. oh yea and this too.

Me>You
*Throws him a peice of meat* shoo now.

Shin-Volcano

Oct 12, 2003, 01:36 AM

Btw my sig basicly means you talk trash like your doing now your going to get talked trash to back in other words you bite i bite you bark i roar you fuck with me you get fucked up, so heed that sig and dream about it and fear it becuase you will get burned child, of course if you had any type of intellect you would know that already. but i wonder why i am not surprised.

[ This Message was edited by: Shin-Volcano on 2003-10-11 23:38 ]

Nai_Calus

Oct 12, 2003, 04:35 AM

Hrith

Oct 12, 2003, 08:23 AM

On 2003-10-12 02:35, Ian-KunX wrote :
If you had any type of intellect, you would use proper grammar and spelling in your posts.
So it was not just me, I thought it was because I was French http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Even though my first point when posting here was to defend the RAmarl, I do have to agree with Ranger_Larry.

I like RAmarl better because RAmar is THE ranger. I mean he has highest ATA, good ATP, but poor melee skill (lower DFP, lower EVP, no Jellen), therefore his point is to stay at bay and slaughter from afar. Which I don't really like. I like the RAmarl giving me the choice to kill from a distance or go melee.
That means they are played differently. And as far as Ranger gameplay is concerned the RAmar is better.
Like I said (I think I did) I just hate his look, but he's not a bad character simply because there aren't any.

Ranger_Larry

Oct 12, 2003, 02:42 PM

Great post. Yeah, you can kinda see how they made the ramar. He does have good power, awesome ata, and despite low def, very high hp. THe hp being high is good for when you get yourself into a situation occassionally, it lets you get out alive. You don't want to make a habit out of it, but you can get buy. I still think the techs they made just too weak. I looked again on my dc ramar (lv 200) and his mst whipes the floor with the gc counterpart, despite having inferior stats otherwise. Having even the level 15 jellen and zalure WOULD NOT have hurt the balance of the game, but would have made ramars good melee chars too, even if they were still meant as distance shooters. But if he is not meleeing, the lack of j/z is not a huge deal. The power is actually better than any ranger, because with 1260 plus even the 15 shifta, he ends up with more than racast. Racaseal, is not even close. (1175 atp, but no shifta, and for both the bots, sorry to say, mag blasts take forever to build with rangers) Of course she got hp and def out the you know what http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif (meaning you have to play her a bit diff too)

Lede

Oct 13, 2003, 12:38 PM

If you had any type of intellect, you would use proper grammar and spelling in your posts.

You would also have no need to resort to flaming and childish insults to get your point across, and instead would be able to convey it with calmly stated, well-reasoned arguements that would serve to further your point. Instead, you childishly flame and thus destroy your arguement by making those who might otherwise listen dismiss you as a hot-headed, ill-mannered troll.

Have a nice day.

if you had any type of intellect you would not give a shit and butt out of arguments that are not yours instead of kissing his ass, for reason i dont think i should know

Ramar is your fav hes your fav, drop it weither hes trash or not live with it and accept it, larry you should have not started the argument to begin with and you would not have gotten any flames and that retard above you who posted who kissing your ass should have stfu in the 1st place, so if he gets flamed then thats his dumb ass fault. and i can tell hes a moron becuase hes whining about grammer and spelling, only stupid retard fucks attack somone grammer and spelling becuase they cant find anything else, if you cant read it for some reason then dont respond/post/reply about it, its as simple ad that.

now thank you.

[ This Message was edited by: Lede on 2003-10-13 10:40 ]