Item Classifications

[Soukosa]

There have been some issues lately regarding how the items in the game have been classified here. The main one being quite a bit of confusion regarding how the weapon itself is, by going by how it's classified, which has been by it's animation. If you ask me, weapons shouldn't be classified by their animation but more by how their actual attack is. Doing it that way makes more sense and will help a lot with the confusion about how a certain weapon actually is. A while ago, I started to classify all the weapons based on how their attacks are. During this time, LollipopLolita decided that the current classifications need to be redone and asked to see my classifications. I don't know if she ever looked at it or not since she never said anything about them. Also, during that time, I posted a link to the classifications in a topic in Site Related for people to look over and state what they thought of it. But, I guess not many people go there, since I didn't get much feedback.

Well, I feel that the classifications still needs some work and I'd like to hear what other people here feel they should be classified as. Also, I've been working on a program that I'm sure will be useful to alot of you once it's complete and for it, I'd like to have every thing under classifications that work for everyone.

Click here to view my classifications (http://scorpius.spaceports.com/~sounomi/pso/classifications/weapons.html).

Note that it contains every weapon that I know of, including the unreleased S-Ranks (which, I'm sure will be out soon) and that is has also been updated a fair amount since I posted it in Site Related. I'm open to any suggestions and such and will explain why I classified any of the weapons the way that I did. After this, we can move on to guards (which doesn't have much debating there) and tool items (which greatly needs some organization.

[LollipopLolita]

i don't know when was the last time you checked the db but it was reworked as far as classifications

[Saladwood]

yes, we already reworked the classifications. there wasn't too much to change, but if you can say all of what you're saying, you obviously didn't notice any of the changes.

we talked with our affilates about classifications and classified them to the way the best way we feel they should be.

[Soukosa]

Yes, I've noticed that you've changed some of them, but it doesn't really help to solve the problem that I mentioned.

[VulpesMundi]

Addressing Sounomi

The animation of the weapon is the key factor to defining a weapon's class. However, it's not the only factor. Let's use the Spread Needle as a perfect example. On your list you put the Spread Needle under the shot category. Sure it shoots five bullets, but it does not fire at the same range or rate of speed as a shot. Therefore, your classification is incorrect. However, classifying it as a rifle (which is technically what it is) would also be incorrect, since again it doesn't fire at the same range and has five bullets. I think the whole reason there's an S-rank Needle is because it's a class all its own. So if you think about it, the Spread Needle (and S-rank Needle) should be uniquely classified as simply Needle. Seems a little complicated, but when you think about the unique qualities of the Needles it makes perfect sense. You did this with the different types of bazookas, which I totally agree with. It's the same difference. Equally, a Victor Axe (and S-rank Axe) does not belong in the Saber or Sword categories. It is a totally unique weapon type, even if it does animate like a sword. I understand that you put an asterisk by the Needles and Axes for this reason, but they do not belong in the categories you have them placed in.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VulpesMundi on 2003-10-18 00:01 ]</font>

[Olga-Rappy]

Also, I've not seen one, but isn't the C-Sorceror's Cane a Double Saber?

Funny, how such a useful AND rare weapon isn't mass duped, yet sh*t like Heaven's Punishers are.

[Dillon]

Rofl, yeah.

[VioletSkye]

On 2003-10-18 04:59, Olga-Rappy wrote:
Also, I've not seen one, but isn't the C-Sorceror's Cane a Double Saber?


No. not even close.

[Soukosa]

On 2003-10-17 23:59, VulpesMundi wrote:
Addressing Sounomi

The animation of the weapon is the key factor to defining a weapon's class. However, it's not the only factor. Let's use the Spread Needle as a perfect example. On your list you put the Spread Needle under the shot category. Sure it shoots five bullets, but it does not fire at the same range or rate of speed as a shot. Therefore, your classification is incorrect. However, classifying it as a rifle (which is technically what it is) would also be incorrect, since again it doesn't fire at the same range and has five bullets. I think the whole reason there's an S-rank Needle is because it's a class all its own. So if you think about it, the Spread Needle (and S-rank Needle) should be uniquely classified as simply Needle. Seems a little complicated, but when you think about the unique qualities of the Needles it makes perfect sense. You did this with the different types of bazookas, which I totally agree with. It's the same difference. Equally, a Victor Axe (and S-rank Axe) does not belong in the Saber or Sword categories. It is a totally unique weapon type, even if it does animate like a sword. I understand that you put an asterisk by the Needles and Axes for this reason, but they do not belong in the categories you have them placed in.

I realize that there's still a few weapons on their that are debatable as to what classification they should be under and this why I want some feedback from some more people. I can see your point for the axes not being a saber, it's just at some point it was felt that they should be looked at that way and just haven't had any more thought put into it. With the needles, I can see your stance with them, but they are still very close to how shots, despite their speed and shorter range. The needles aren't the only ones with a shorter range than the rest of the weapons of their classification, like with Yas 7000V, which I've heard has a slightly shorter range than a normal rifle to make up for it's auto targetting, but everyone feels that it is a rifle, despite that. But, like I said, I am open to suggestions and all. I just don't like how the current things are setup, since someone could, for example, look at the Inferno Bazooka here, see it listed as a shot and think that it'll hit more than one enemy, which it doesn't.

[DOG21313]

I think those classifications are a lot better, considering that is confusing when your trying to pick item targets to get...
EXAMPLE: This actually happened... and made me mad >:| I was looking at the Database and saw Inferno Bazooka was equippable by HUmar, so I think about how incredibly awesome it would be to use a shot type, thinking it would actually hit 5 enemies... But I was utterly dissapointed when I found out what it actually did... Same with Victor Axe. I thought it would be too hard to go through challenge to get a legit Crazy Tune for my FOmar to have a sword type, and saw that Victor axe is FOmar equippable... then I found out the truth, it doesn't even hit multiple enemies

[Soukosa]

You're not the only one that got upset over how a certain weapon was perceived to be. I knew someone that worked quite hard to get a certain rare, thinking it would be a certain way due to how it's classified here, only to be greatly disappointed when they found out that it wasn't anything like that. I've also come across a few other people here complaining about misconceptions on how weapons are due to their classification. I doubt that PSOW will do much to their current classifications, but that's not why I posted this here. I simply want to see a better classification system for people to use, so they can get the correct idea as to how a weapon is (and this could also be extended into guards and tool items as well). I'd also like to implement this classification system into some programs that I'm working on and will eventually release to the public, that relate to the items in the game.

[TekkamanBlade]

I think every thing loks great! I think you did i good job , but i got a comment. Shouldnt Berrils Arms go under Fist instead of Daggers!? I might be wrong but everything else looks pretty good.

[Primrose]

On 2003-10-19 02:28, TekkamanBlade wrote:
I think every thing loks great! I think you did i good job , but i got a comment. Shouldnt Berrils Arms go under Fist instead of Daggers!? I might be wrong but everything else looks pretty good.



No, they are Daggers, because of their animation, and were getting to the same point again.
I had a discussion going on a while back regarding the classifications, mainly regarding the cane type weapons, because there were many rod type weapons that were classified as cane type weapons.
I think now the database is correct just the way it is.
I think you should just go with the attack animation, i already mentioned this in the other thread, and the reason is because you cant get anything wrong if thats how you define the weapons classification.
Although Olga-Rappy might be totally wrong with the belief that Sorcerers Cane is a Double Saber type, he leads us to a point. Since the weapon makes two saber-like things appear when you hit, similar to Partisan of Lightning, it lead him to the wrong conclusion that it is a double saber type weapon.
My point is nothing can go wrong if you classify something as to how the attack animation is, a Spread Needle is a rifle, even if it has miserable range and will hit multiple enemies, a Victor Axe is a sword, even if it hits just one enemy, a Drill launcher is a rifle even if it can pierce etc...
We need some kind of a rule to apply on, if not, there will always be unsatisfied people coming up with different reasons.
I think if people dont know that the weapons have these special abilities it should be mentioned as some kind of note.
If not, you would have to change so many thing wouldnt you? Is Dancing Hitogata really a typical card type weapon?
See, i think the only missing thing is some kind of remark or so, to make it more clear that the weapons have unique abilities.

[Soukosa]

What I'm going by here is not how the appearance is but how the attack are. S-Berrill's Arms would be dagger instead of a fist since they attack the enemy twice for each attack, instead of just once. Sorcerer's Cane can't be considered a double saber since it only hits the enemy three times in a combo, instead of six times. Classifying things by how the animation is while ignoring how it actually attacks the enemy is only causing problems. We have people comparing things like the Gi Gue Bazooka against a Photon Launcher, for example. While they may share the same animation, the way they attack enemies is completely different. Then we'd have people comparing the Spread Needle against other Rifles, again they are so different that you can't really compare them as if they are the same things. The Spread Needle should be compared against shots instead. The weapons that have a shot animation but only hit one enemy shouldn't be compared against shots since again, they're means of attack enemies are completely different. You could specify that they do only hit one enemy, but people will look at its classification see that it's a shot and compare it to others and probably lead other to the fact that it hits more than one enemy. Look around and I'm sure you'll see that classifying weapons purely on their animation isn't helping things that much.

[Kadou]

On 2003-10-18 04:59, Olga-Rappy wrote:
Also, I've not seen one, but isn't the C-Sorceror's Cane a Double Saber?

Funny, how such a useful AND rare weapon isn't mass duped, yet sh*t like Heaven's Punishers are.



No, it's a rod.

Sorry for posting off topic, but this is all I really have to say. The current item classifications don't bother me in the slightest.

[Jazhara]

On 2003-10-18 09:28, VioletSkye wrote:


On 2003-10-18 04:59, Olga-Rappy wrote:
Also, I've not seen one, but isn't the C-Sorceror's Cane a Double Saber?


No. not even close.



He never is. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Olga-Rappy]

Wow. Way to flame.

Some of us can't just snag items off of Vega, we have to beat up Gran Sorcs for them.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Olga-Rappy on 2003-10-20 05:42 ]</font>

[Soukosa]

I made some changes to the some of the classifications after thinking about things a bit. It should be a bit more agreeable now.