Item: Human FOrces: Why so limited?

[SpyroDi]

After a bit of thinking,I noticed that the FOmar and FOmarl are the fighter classes of the FOrces,yet they are very limited to what weapons they can use...what weapon do you think is the best weapon that should be able to be used by them? (mostly uber-rares) Give your opinions!

By the way,if a weapon you suggest is not on there,simply post it without voting.

[SpyroDi]

I vote for the Twin Blaze,it adds 40 MST,that 20% boost to Gifoie,and not to mention all that added ATP. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Cerris]

TWINBLAZE rocks. SPAMSPAMSPAM

[deathreaper]

most of those weapons can't even be used by forces

[Soukosa]

On 2003-10-17 20:52, deathreaper wrote:
most of those weapons can't even be used by forces

"what weapon do you think is the best weapon that should be able to be used by them?" Didn't read the whole message?


On topic: They are limited for a reason. That being access to all the FO only weapons. I feel that the Human FOs weren't meant to be hyprid, where you use physical attacks along with techniques. While you can't have the advantages of a melee weapon and a good FO weapon at the same time, being able to switch between the two is quite valuble. Even though, I still wish ST would allow FOs to use more of the of melee weapons, which makes me wonder as to why a RA can use more melee weapons than a FO.

[Dillon]

It's a simple stereotype from who knows how far back.

How many Merlins do you see weilding Excalibur? (And yes, I mean Merlins. Merlin is a title, not a single man.)

Just like in..about EVERY other RPG out there that uses the simple class system, they don't usually get to use swords and other weapons say a..Knight would.

Heh, someone with an N64 and "Ogre Battle: Person of Lordly Calibur" should load it up and see what I'm talking about.

[Stalfos333]

It's my personal opinion that the Melee Fo is a joke, and contributes less than nothing to the team. It's roughly equivalent to a FoMarl foregoing weapons to cast only techs. She won't be able to do it well, and it's a stupid way to play if you look at what she's most capable of and how ULT is set up.

[Zarana]

Monkey King Bar. They could use it in V2 and it's not that good, so I've really got to wonder why they aren't able to equip it anymore.

[_Sinue_]

Well, It's my personal opinion that Stalfos is wrong. Melee FO's definately have a lot to add to a team, since melee FO's are well versed in just how effective Jellen/Zelure can be - and often cast it religeously.

Face it, with the way games are played now - you usually don't have the time to cast buttloads of support spells AND inflict decent damage with your techs. Even in Ultimate. In fact, FO's that cast lots of offencive spells tend to be detrimental to a team because they make the monsters recoil from the attack - making them momentarily impervious to HU and RA melee attacks. Should that happen in the middle of a combo - the HU and RA are at greater risk of being counter attacked while still recovering or manuvering for their next combo. There's also the phenomenon of Damage Negate - which can cancel out a HU's 800 to 1000 DMG strike with a 400 to 500 DMG tech blast.

Techs have their time and place - and are extreemely useful. However, what determines weither or not a FO (or any character) is worthless to the team is the skill and judgement of the player holding the controller.

Personally, I would much rather play a melee FO than a HU or a RA. While they can't dish out the damage or recieve the damage a RA or HU can - they have insane support techs to fall back on. Whereas a HUmar can only cast lvl 15 Jellen and Zellure - a FOmar has access to lvl 30 J/Z - as well as lvl 30 S/D. This narrows the gap between the two classes a bit. Not to mention that the FOmar has access to lvl 30 Resta - which considerably stronger than HUmar Resta. Whereas a HUmar will have to cast Resta 3 or 4 times to completely fill his HP gauge - the FOmar can fill his in one or two casts - which saves a considerable amount of time when surrounded by enemies. He can also take MORE hits with Deban and Jellen in effect than a HUmar can with only lvl 15 Jellen.

HUnewearls and RAmarls close the gap a bit - but they are still subject to a Tech limit just 5 levels above their male counterparts - and 10 full levels below even the worst tech oriented FO. Yet, they are also the weakest characters in their class - trading off ATP for more MST. They also don't have access to
the full compliment of Techs a FO does.

Perhaps my view is a bit skewed. Being the proud owner of a FOnewearl that can drop most Ultimate level monsters in 1 to 1 1/2 melee combos online. Offline, she's able to drop almost any monster in even less than a full combo. My HUmar doesn't even come close to being the battler she is - because even though he has the weapons and the stats to inflict major damage, he just can't hold himself in a fight nearly as well.

The bottom line is - the best way to help you team as a FO, is not to inflict major damage with attack techs - but to be diligent with your support techs. Once you learn to cast those on the fly and with diligence - however you do damage is up to you, because you're greatest contribution to the team has already been fulfilled. You've made the HU's and RA's as resiliant and vercitile as you are.

[joluh]

Oh Sinue, always wise... whatever Sinue said, i support it ^_^

And i'd say Twin Blaze =D or Lavis Items, which?!? any

[Stalfos333]

Why does a melee Fo need to cast J/Z S/D? My Fonewm and FoNewearl use them fairly effectively in multiplayer, and significantly contribute to the team effort besides. A skilled player knows how to fill a lull with damage rather than spamming Rafoie, and how to direct spells at unattacked enemies, aside from weakening them. Sure, I could probably spam Rafoie with the Newm and clear out multiplayer Ult one player, but by PLAYING well you, and everyone else, has a better time. But why should I be in an enemy's face, casting Resta constantly as my low Def and HP mean I can't take more than two hits despite S/D? Might as well distract enemies with myself, casting strategically to help the effort. That way, instead of impotently attacking one enemy when I'm not healing, I can contribute to the good of the group.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2003-10-18 00:11, Stalfos333 wrote:
Why does a melee Fo need to cast J/Z S/D? My Fonewm and FoNewearl use them fairly effectively in multiplayer, and significantly contribute to the team effort besides. A skilled player knows how to fill a lull with damage rather than spamming Rafoie, and how to direct spells at unattacked enemies, aside from weakening them. Sure, I could probably spam Rafoie with the Newm and clear out multiplayer Ult one player, but by PLAYING well you, and everyone else, has a better time. But why should I be in an enemy's face, casting Resta constantly as my low Def and HP mean I can't take more than two hits despite S/D? Might as well distract enemies with myself, casting strategically to help the effort. That way, instead of impotently attacking one enemy when I'm not healing, I can contribute to the good of the group.



Why should a melee FO use support techs? Er, perhaps the same reason every other fighter with them would?
And a melee FO's damage output is perfectly good, thank you. Give 'em some decent weapons, a good POW/DEX Mag, high-level S/D/J/Z, and you've got a killing machine that takes piss for damage and does shitloads of it. FOmars are notorious for having low DFP and lower HP. But guess what? My FOmar can take just as much punshiment as my HUmar can, if not more. And he can dish it out just as well. And thanks to his MST as a Force, he can actually heal himself in one Resta instead of two! Wow! Also, Forces -can- use some multi-enemy weapons, y'know. It's not just all "Let's take it down one thing at a time with my Red Saber +78 and hope I don't get killed!" -_-; Besides, you make the mistake of assuming competent teammates. >P If the melee FO is the only one who knows what the hell they're doing, they'll do the most for the team. Besides, if the FO is in something's face damaging it, they're probably actually doing a proper job of being a support FO. >P Then again, I'd probably not melee in multiplayer/online, I'd just be a support bitch.

[Jack]

I play as a Melee FOmar more often than not now. The Soul Banish and high-Hit L&K14 Combats are my weapons of choice, and combined with my maxed ATP and level 30 Shifta/Zalure, I can do quite a bit by myself.

[rena-ko]

well, i play my fomarl with joy.
i play her on ult neglecting melee, since i need those two buttons.
i support, i weaken the enemy, i grants lillies in temple i rabarta everything to freeze it. i dont see anything else to do.

thus, fomarls are pretty limited to be online. they need a team if they want to use their strengths to the fullest (support ranges).

and with the right mag and the right weapons, melee is possible. fomarls can equip vulcans... even combats if i'm not mistaken. they can use srank twin. what else is needed?

[Olga-Rappy]

FOmar - Twin Psychoguns, S-Rank Mechguns, Yasminkov 9000
FOmarl - Twin Blaze, Meteor Cudgel, Twin Brand


Alright, first of all, the Golden Rule:

"You can play your character however you want as long as you're respectful of others and don't die too much, it's your $9."

Now, on with the show.

FOnewms and FOnewearls were designed to be attack tech masters. ST created them to spam attack spells. Sure, you have to use the judiciously online/in Ultimate, but that's where the learning curve is. Hunters with a FOnew- on their team frequently, in turn must learn to orchestrate combos harmoniously with their local freaky hatted, pointy-eared freak.

In turn, they can't be in battle. Unless they're welll eyond the area they're playing in, they can be KO'ed in exactly 2 attacks. If they're anywhere below power in proportion to enemies, it's an OHKO. Their physical damage output is sh*t too, their weapons serve to simply amplify their techniques. (Though I personally like to go Booma Swatting with my PWand when I'm bored of hunting for Über rares that rarely exist outside Vega.)

Now we have the FOmar and FOmarl.

We can talk about them both with their techs. The range boosts to Shifta and Deband/Rest Anti dictate ST's intention for them: Support b*tches. They may have access to all of the level 30 techs, but their low MST and poor bonuses prevent these from vecoming anything more than a hindrance to Hunters.

Then we look at their attack tech bonuses, and their more physical stats. The physical stats are on the same level as a Ranger's. Grants is boosted seevrely for the FOmarl, as a sort of compensation for low offensive capability. (Her Level 26+ Grants does the most damage to a single target in the game). The FOmar's bonuses are to Gi-techs, which are great for augmenting mid-ranged melee assaults, ESPECIALLY Gifoie.

As compensation for not being tech tanks, their best (or second best for the FOmarl) way of hurting enemies lies in taking a weapon to their face.

The FOmar's naturally ATP and ATA (higher than a RAmarl/RAcaseal's from what I've seen), coupled with his encouragement to use Shifta, make the FOmar a natural with Mechguns. A FOmar with an H&S 25 and Gifoie hotpadded, can show you what a cold day in Hell is really like. Geist Vulcans are any FOmar's best friend, especially with Gibarta to keep enemies still while you gain TP and kill them.

The FOmarl, on the other hand, is better suited for Melee, with High Endurance from her HP, DFP, and EVP. She lacks the FOmar's ATP and ATA, so the better choice would be a weapon with multiple chances to hit and do as high damage as possible. That's where the Double-Sabers come in. FOmarls have very fast tech and attack animations too, which means that with other fighters in tow, you can squeeze in a 3rd-hit to your combo, more importantly a killing blow.

[Uncle_bob]

The FOmarl, on the other hand, is better suited for Melee, with High Endurance from her HP, DFP, and EVP. She lacks the FOmar's ATP and ATA, so the better choice would be a weapon with multiple chances to hit and do as high damage as possible. That's where the Double-Sabers come in. FOmarls have very fast tech and attack animations too, which means that with other fighters in tow, you can squeeze in a 3rd-hit to your combo, more importantly a killing blow.

:|...
Fomarls have more ATA than Fomars
Fomarl ata: 170
Fomar ata: 163

[Olga-Rappy]

What level is that?

You can't use levels 1 or 200 for comaprison, as few charcters are at those exact points.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Olga-Rappy on 2003-10-18 09:59 ]</font>

[Soukosa]

On 2003-10-18 04:07, rena-ko wrote:
thus, fomarls are pretty limited to be online. they need a team if they want to use their strengths to the fullest (support ranges).

Makes me wonder if you've actually ever used one online. FOmarls are just as useful as every other class and are capable of dishing out good damage as well as saving everyone else's butt.



On 2003-10-18 09:58, Olga-Rappy wrote:
What level is that?

You can't use levels 1 or 200 for comaprison, as few charcters are at those exact points.

A FOmarl's ATA is pretty much guranteed to always be higher than a FOmar's and a FOmar's ATA is also the lowest in the game, so I don't see how it can be considered a good attribute

[navci]

I vote Twin Blaze, along with the ... Flaming garment (I think it's what it's called?) They would look very hot. Hehe.

Er.
People, settle down!
Everytime the topic remotely touch "melee FO" there is always a heated arguement. ...