PSO - Debate on the storyline (May include spoilers)

[The_Pea_Guy]

I've been playing PSO fo quite a while now, but there's one thing that bugs me about the game, which is...

Where does PSO take place in the Phantasy Star timeline!?

Don't get me wrong - I like the game, but I think that ST did a bad job connecting the game's stoyline to the rest of the Phantasy Star series. For example, you know the symbol on the Pioneer 2 ship? The one with the 3 planets? That has to be the Algo solar system - where the PS series takes place. But the problem is that the survivors of Pioneer 2 came from a planet called Coral. I'm sorry, but there is no planet Coral in the Algo solar system - only Palm, Dezo and Mota.

It's really annoying because I really liked the latest installment to have some connections with the rest of the series. All it managed to do is create a really complicated story with results into so many theories to do with the series, with questions like: who sealed Dark Force in the spaceship? And... how did Red Ring Rico know about Dark Force when she deciphered the runes in the Ruins dungeon?

Well, what do you guys think? Does anyone here agree with what I said?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The_Pea_Guy on 2003-11-04 12:36 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The_Pea_Guy on 2003-11-04 12:42 ]</font>

[PrinceBrightstar]

The official word is that the games are meant to not be connected. Although if you go about a month back in the forums, you'll see a possible connection.

[KaFKa]

pso(the current) is kinda like what all the final fantasy games are, they all seemingly go ahead in time, seem to be in the same "world" but never really connect past char. names. maybe im wrong, but thats what it seems like to me =P

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2003-11-04 13:07, Jonathan_F wrote:
The official word is that the games are meant to not be connected. Although if you go about a month back in the forums, you'll see a possible connection.



Where are you getting that from? Last time I saw the subject come up in an interview with Yuji Naka, he confirmed that PSO does indeed take place in the same universe as the rest of the series.

There does seem to be sufficient information to suggest that the game is indeed connected, judging from information dealing directly with the game. The year of the game is AUW 3084-- 800 years after Phantasy Star 4. On Pioneer 2, we do see plenty of influence from Palman civilization. The Hunters' Guild, Newmans, the Psycho Wand, Rika's Claw, Nei's Claw, The Heart of Poumn... All from previous games. Hopefully, Episode 3 should explain it. It's supposed to wrap up the storyline, so one would assume it would give us some answers to the following questions:
Who sealed Dark Falz in the Ruins?
Where did the Ruins come from?
Where is Coral, and why are there Algolians coming from it?

[PrinceBrightstar]

You're confusing AUW with AW. There's no proof that these events are on the same timeline as the PS series. And if it is so that they are connected, then I've made a mistake and that Cotex theory would be right on because I played that game, and i seem to recall a bazooka like weapon you used in the final battle, thus resulting in the Nug2000-Bazooka.

[Kupi]

Phantasy Star's been known to switch names amongst the series, though. I mean, there's been a Mota, Motavia, Motav... Noah and Lutz... so why can't AUW = AW?

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2003-11-04 14:48, Jonathan_F wrote:
You're confusing AUW with AW. There's no proof that these events are on the same timeline as the PS series. And if it is so that they are connected, then I've made a mistake and that Cotex theory would be right on because I played that game, and i seem to recall a bazooka like weapon you used in the final battle, thus resulting in the Nug2000-Bazooka.



The use of "AUW" to denote the year has been used synonymously with "AW" prior to PSO. It seems to have been an alternate spelling in the Japanese version, though I'm not certain where I've seen it before (I want to think it was the Japanese version of PS1, but I very well may be wrong on that). Regardless, it seems silly to assume a totally new calendar to the PS universe, for the simple reason that a "U" was stuffed in the middle of "AW". For that matter, all we know about "AW" is that it stands for "After Weizz". We've thus far assumed the name to be "Weizz Landale", but it could very likely be something more along the lines of "Unther Weizz" or such.
And again, the only time I've ever seen it brought up in an interview, Yuji Naka confirmed that PSO does take place in the same universe as the rest of the series.
Of course, we may have to wait for Episode 3 to find a definite answer for the connection.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2003-11-04 16:02, Kupi wrote:
Phantasy Star's been known to switch names amongst the series, though. I mean, there's been a Mota, Motavia, Motav... Noah and Lutz... so why can't AUW = AW?



A very firm point, indeed. Albeit, the Noah/Lutz issue has been a long standing topic of debates, and sometimes even flames. I can offer sufficient evidence to show that it's easier to assume Noah and Lutz to be the same, than it is to assume they are different, but even still, the opposition poses a rather firm argument.

Even still though, yeah, I mean, we've got Palma, Palm, Parma, Poumn, Motavia, Mota, Motabia, Motav, Muut, Dezoris, Dezo, Dezlis, and Ditts... It doesn't stop. I think that if there's one thing that Phantasy Star could use more of, it's consistency.

[DOG21313]

Well, I heard it was 800 years after PS4, why couldnt they just change theyre name sometime in between there? I dunno, but I think all the questions about the story will be answered in PSO Ep 3

[_Sinue_]

I think that PSO takes place sometime between PSII and PSVI, durring the Great Collapse... and that PSO has more to do with the "Gaiden" games and Phantasy Star III than it does with the rest of the series.

One quick note though. Yuji Naka has already stated that PSO is NOT connected to the rest of the Phantasy Star series offically. Though, I believe they put enough hints and clues in the series to connect them unoffically. Something to add depth to the game for fans of the series - if they choose to add that depth. I don't think they wanted to bog down new players in Phantasy Star lore - expecially when the storyline for PSO itself is pretty weak.

I guess the first issue I should address is the homeworld of Pioneer 2, since that was one of the biggest coup's to the idea that the games are connected. Flowen states that they came from their homeworld "Coral". Through the entire PS series, the names of various planets and people have been altered - sometimes slightly, sometimes significantly. The Mutts, Dittz, Pounm, in PSO is an example of this as it represents the 3 sealing planets in the Algo star system. Motavia, Dezolis, Palma. The is one other planet in the Algo system - name Ryucros. But, that planet is an uninhabited (By humans anyhow) crystaline planet. It could not have spawned a civlization capable of making the Pioneer ships. The name itself sounds nothing like Coral - so it's hard to believe they could have butched the names to the point where Ryucros turns into Coral.

There is, however, another planet in the Phantasy Star series which sounds like Coral. That's the planet Copto. It was colonized after Phantasy Star 1, and before Mother Brain was activated. It's nickname is "AlisWorld" - because it was founded by the hero of PS1, and Queen of Palma Alis Landale. Since it is a purely Palman colony, you naturally only find Palmans and those that their society created - Numans and Androids.

I believe that sometime after PSII, durring the Great Collapse - that Motavians attempted to reestablish Mother Brain's defunct systems. They disscected them - moddified them - and tried to control them. The sattelites Zelan and Kuran, along with DAUGHTER, are proof of that Motavians attempted to understand the technology which kept them alive. I believe they even stumbled upon the Nei project research, and created Numan to help suppliment their dwindling birthrates. Their understanding of this technology though, was faulty. This explains the inperfections in Numans which lead to indefinate lifespans - and the failure to keep their world from crumbling.

With Mother Brain and the Earthlings out of control, restrictions on space travel were lifted. I think that it's probable that the Palman colonists on Motavia sought out Copto/Coral for it's terran enviroment. However, this influx of immigrants on Coral - along with the tinkering of knowladge gained from Mother Brain's old systems - caused an enviromental overload on Coral/Copto. Their natural resources quickly depleted, and instiblities in the enviroment may have had dire effects on the ecosystem. The heavy presence of the military durring PSO may be proof of this, as there would naturally be clash between Coralians and the new immigrants fleeing their home and using up all their resources.

Desperate for a new home, the Pioneer Project was launched. Although, that was just a front for the military to proceed with their own plans. Ragol was selected, not only because it was a terran world which could spread out their populace - but because there was something else there. This is where I think the legacy of Phantasy Star II comes back.

The government obviously KNEW something was on Ragol before making the Pioneer Project. I believe that Earthmen escaping from the crippled NOAH after the battle at the end of PSII assimilated into all sectors of Motavian society - including the military, sciences, and government. The Earthmen knew exactly where to find the one creature which could give them power over the Palmans and Motavians - if only they could harness it's power.

The earthmen knew that a Dark Force was on Earth, as shown in the offline quest "Butlers Grave". Aron's ending showed the Alysa III landing safely on earth (Or at least, making contact with the London Communication Center). The Earthmen of the past welcomed the Alyssa III, and gained much technology from it. Technology that they would eventually use to create the Noah and escape their dying planet. Dark Force, also, was not truely defeated.. as he vows to return in 1000 years to finish destorying your ship and your decendants at the end of PSIII.

The presence of Esper seals on Ragol to seal up the Alyssa III contradicts this.. but I think it can be explained by the Nei weapons and armors. They are an increadibly powerful set of items capable of defeating Dark Force. You first run across them in Phantasy Star II.. as Lutz requests that you collect them all before going to the Noah to confront Mother Brain. In PSII, all of the Nei weapons you collect are from Dezolis.. but there are more than that. You use Nei weapons in PSIII to defeat Dark Force. They are all, mysteriously, present on the Alyssa III - one of 400 world ships which escaped Palma. This leads me to believe that each planet has it's own set of Nei weapons.. and if that's true.. then someone would have had to have collected and hidden the Palman Nei weapon onboard the Alyssa III before the destruction of the planet. Which means, an Esper (as they were the only ones with knowladge of the Nei weapons) must have been present on the Alyssa III. When you visit Sages Isle in PSIII, one of the old scholars states "All the legendary weapons have been gathered for the first time in 1,000 years." We know (because of Lutz) that they also possess the technology for Cryo-Sleep. It's possible that a Esper took refuge in the ship with the weapons. Upon realizing that they were off course, he could have hidden the weapons until a time when they would be rescued by other Algolians. That time never came, and it would have been the Earthmen who stumbled upon him and reccussitated him while dissecting the ship for it's technology.

The only thing I cannot explain away, is the difference in dates.. as the AUW calender doesn't match up to the AW calender in my timeline. According to the AW calender, PSO is some 800 years AFTER PSVI. Although, that could also be the case - as it may very well have taken nearly 1,000 years for Copto to overpopulate with the offspring of the new immigrants and deplete it's resources. The other hang-up, the absence of ruins from Earthling society, could be attributed to a military cover-up - further masking the truth of the Pioneer Project away from the populace.

Sorry for any errors or details left out. There's a LOT of information to go over, and I don't really have the time to explain it all in one long drawn out post. Ask me anything, and I'll try to answer your question to best of my ability.

[The_Pea_Guy]

I'm starting to agree with the guys who said that PSO does NOT take place in the series.

Why?

Well I remember that PS4 was supposed to be the final game in the series, because the storyline of PS4 was mainly about the secrets of Algo, Dark Force and the existence of the Profund Darkness - Dark Force's true manifestation. When Chaz and co. destroyed the Profound Darkness in the endgame, Darkness no longer exists in the universe anymore, as the ending states.

What I don't get is why is the Algo solar system and Dark Force involved in a storyline that has nothing to do with the rest of the PS series, as Yuji Naka officialy announced. Why couldn't of they just put a new villian and new characters in the new game instead?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The_Pea_Guy on 2003-11-06 13:48 ]</font>

[Gwilym]

Coral, eh? Well...if you spell 'Coral' in Japanese, it can also be read as 'Copto', apparently. Delicious.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gwilym on 2003-11-07 07:22 ]</font>

[Hikara]

I think the only relation between the games is names. I've heard people say that the spells have the same names (Megid is mentioned more than once in a few threads), and that planet someone just mentioned sounded a lot like Ryuker... the teleport spell.

[PS2_Master0]

On 2003-11-06 13:38, The_Pea_Guy wrote:
I'm starting to agree with the guys who said that PSO does NOT take place in the series.

Why?

Well I remember that PS4 was supposed to be the final game in the series, because the storyline of PS4 was mainly about the secrets of Algo, Dark Force and the existence of the Profund Darkness - Dark Force's true manifestation. When Chaz and co. destroyed the Profound Darkness in the endgame, Darkness no longer exists in the universe anymore, as the ending states.

What I don't get is why is the Algo solar system and Dark Force involved in a storyline that has nothing to do with the rest of the PS series, as Yuji Naka officialy announced. Why couldn't of they just put a new villian and new characters in the new game instead?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The_Pea_Guy on 2003-11-06 13:48 ]</font>


I've actually seen this type of thing in many video games.

In many games I have played, the characters stay the same, sometimes the villain too, but to give the game a new taste, they change the storyline.

EXAMPLE:

Anyone ever heard of Final Fantasy X?

Well, SquareSoft/Square Enix is making a sequel, Final Fantasy X-2.

In FFX-2, the characters are the smae (Yuna is still there),
A few of the villains might have carried over, but the game itself is entirely different.

I think PS4 going into PSO follows the same pattern.

[Kaos-Bringer-]

wow... lotsa stories... some that even give ya chills cause of the "suspense" *grabs popcorn* tell me more lol

[KaFKa]

after all this, you ppl don't realize that from what i've read upon researching this subject quite dilligently, and, with alot of dead ends... (64 sites and counting...) i have found out that, in fact, PSO IS ONLY CONNECTED BY NAMES AND THROWBACKS. thank you for your time, and i will now proceed to go to sleep after doing all that... good night

[Gwilym]

And what material do you have to support this claim?

[KaFKa]

just go to a random search engine and enter in Phantasy star online ep1&2 thats what i did.

[_Sinue_]

No one is going to have anything offical, since Sega has already said "Offically" that the games are not connected.

However, unoffically, they are adding in clues and hints that something bigger may lurk just below the surface. PSO was originally intended to be a part of the PS plot - as evident by the Wren character art, but was later made into a stand-alone game. I think they took their roots and ran with them though.. as they continually add more references and tie ins which only start to make sence if you what what you're looking for and where it fits in.

It's a devious little marketing ploy to keep us long time fans playing and paying our monthly fees - as well as buying new expansions. Plus it gives us something to feed off of and debate - keeping interest in the series active.

[AUTO_]

PSO's date (http://www.camineet.net/theories/psodate.shtml)

Lots of other stuff you should read to make you look smarter when you post about anything Phantasy Star. (http://www.camineet.net/theories/)

[_Sinue_]

Note that those theories are just that, - the views of one individual, and an individual that many people in the Phantasy Star community do not agree with. Many of his theories have have actually been invalidated - but he refuses to change them. For example, the entire "Gender of Noah" debate was conclusively settled by Rieko Kodama (Pheonix Rei), the Designer of Phantasy Star 1.

Yet his views remain unchanged with the incorperation of new information - expecially if it's a difference between the US and Japaneese releases. I may be wrong, but I don't even think Mike has played Ep I & II as of yet.

So my suggestion is to take his ideas as a springboard, and do your own research to come up with your own conclusions. Although he likes to think so, Mike's word is not definitive.