Concerning Dark Falz and RRR

[Hikara]

I am currently writing a Fanfic, and needed to know a little bit of background on Dark Falz/Red Ring Rico. I know RRR was possessed by Falz, but where did Falz actually come from? Was he ever featured in any other Phantasy Star Games, or was he actually some kind of Hunter from another planet? Such information would be nice, and your name will be listed in my credits in my story, so if that's insentive at all...

[_Sinue_]

Give me a sec and I'll write you something up.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Dark Falz is a demon consisting of all of the negative emotions of The Profound Darkness, who is locked in star by a 3-planet seal. As the story goes, the seal weakens every thousand years, and Dark Falz/Force is sent out to try to destroy the planets Palma, Motavia and Dezolis, so that the Profound Darkness can escape.

[Tilldawn]

and by the way dark falz aint a guy its a women its a SHE

[Hikara]

Whoa, wait...

Dark Falz a girl!? HOW IN THE WORLD!?

Oh, wait... Does this have anything to do with the whole Possessing Dark Falz?

[rena-ko]

well, dark falz is a thing. but it uses ricos soul to form a body. this body is actually quite female.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Yeah... Technically, Dark Falz is an "it", though I suppose that the mutated body we see in PSO would be a female, as it started out as Red Ring Rico.

Of course, I suppose it'd be useful to take example from the being that created the Dark Falz entity--

http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psiv/pd3.gif

Then there's the original Dark Falz--
http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psi/darkf1.gif

And a few more versions of the beast for posterity--

PS2 Dark Force
http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psii/darkf.gif

PS3 Dark Force
http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psiii/df.gif

PS4 Dark Forces
http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psiv/df1.gif
http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psiv/df2.gif
http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psiv/df3.gif

[KaFKa]

come on now, hikara, you should know this by now...

falz is an evil being/demigod(by some accounts)that got locked up in the ruins(spaceship)

RRR is the "greatest hunter/scientist" on pioneer 1

RRR goes down to the ruins and owns on everything down there. then she finally get to where falz is supposed to be, and BAM! insta-body for falz.

thats my abbreviated version of what happened.

[_Sinue_]

I'm not all that clear on the background history of Red Ring Rico, aside from what I've read in the game. There's a full script of all the dialouge in PSO floating around the net.. but I'm unsure of who the author is and where it can be found. Message AK2 since he most likely knows where it is. You may also want to talk to Navi about what the PSO Ep I & II Companion/Art book has to say, as I hear it has some info on RRR that's not found in the games.

Dark Falz is another story.. I have a lot of info about him. Keep in mind though, that offically Sonic Team recognises NO storyline link between PSO and the rest of the Phantasy Star series. So the Dark Falz I write about here may be different from the Dark Falz you fight in the game.

Where to begin.. Well, I should probably start by telling you that Dark Falz is not the ultimate baddie in Phantasy Star. He's actually a pawn of an even greater power. According to the Japaneese original version of Phantasy Star 4, billions of years ago there was once a race of spiritual beings who were devided in a horrible civil war. The sides taken were the typical "Light - Good" and "Dark - Evil". Eventually, the Light side won the conflict and sealed the surviving "Darkness" of their race away to another dimension. (In the US version, it was a singular GOD who split into the genesis of Good and Evil and fought.) Upon sending away the last of the darkness, the beings of light created a seal of 3 planets over the dimensional portal so that the darkness could not escape. These three planets are known as Motavia, Dezolis, and Palma. Knowing the Dark beings would one day escape, they created a fourth planet named Ryukros to serve as a warning star of the seal's weakening and placed guardians upon this planet to await the day the darkness would forever be defeated. (RA-Faze and the other guardians may BE individual spirits of light - I'm not sure) The spirits of light then left to roam the cosmos.

Eons passed.. and the beings of darkness seethed and boiled with such hatred in their prison, that eventually they conjeiled into a singular evil entity which would come to be known as the Profound Darkness. He is the ultimate evil in the Phantasy Star universe. Dark Force is merely a spawn of his, a channel for his power in corrpreal world. PSO and PS1 name him Dark Falz - and it's not definate if Dark Force and Dark Falz are different creatures or just different names for the same being. PS1's Dark Falz was much weaker than PSO's DF.. and actually resembled a monster from the other dimension you happen to stumble across at the end of PS4. PSO's Dark Falz, on the other hand, is more powerful than ANY Dark Force or Dark Falz before him. That is why I conviently believe they are both the same creature.. but with a different name.

Anyhow, back to the story. After many millions of years, sentient life began forming on those three planets which make up the extra-dimensional seal. These three races are the Palmans, Motavians, and Dezolians. Palman society was the first to advance radically both politically and technologically. The planet was ruled by the Landale line of Kings and enjoyed much peace and prosperity. Their visir (Advisor) was a man by the name of Lassic who became entranced by a new religeous cult who worshiped a dark god. Entranced by power, Lassic was the first to open a gateway between the dimensions and summon a Dark Falz into the world. The gateway, however, could not be closed.. and thus set the stage for the millenial tragedies to follow. Dark Falz didn't come bellowing out of the gateway killing and terrorizing. Instead, he was contained with a "Pandora's Box". (You see the Pandora's Box in PSO on the altar before fighting Falz. He's also contained in a box in both PS II and PS III. PS4 was the only game in which he didn't need to do that)

From inside the box, he whispered to Lassic and twisted his mind. Dark Force feeds off of despair, pain, and sorrow.. and through Lassic he sought to create as much of it as possible. Lassic killed the King and Queen, and took over power. He ruled Palma and it's colonies on Motavia with an iron fist for 15 years before being defeated by Alis Landale - the true heir to the throne. After his defeat, Alis returned to Motavia and fought Dark Falz underneith the govener's mansion.

Dark Force's true purpose in the world though, was the breaking of the seal binding the Profound Darkness. Which would mean destorying the planets of the Algo system. The gateway Lassic used to bring Dark Falz into this world caused a millenial weakening in the seal binding the Profound Darkness. 1,000 years after PS1, the seal weakend again and you're trust into the story of Phantasy Star II. PS II introduces us to the Espers, a group of people devoted to the protection of Algo from the macinations of the Profound Darkness.

The Espers were started by Lutz, a member of your party from Phantasy Star 1 who is the archetype for what we now call "Forces" in PSO. (Though he used magic, not Techs - but that's off the subject) He is still alive in PS2's time, having underwent cryosleep. He informs you that Dark Force is once again in our world and must be defeated, and then tasks you with finding the "Nei" weapons. Nei weapons were weapons of increadible power, capable of defeating Dark Force. I'm not sure as to the actual origins of the Espers (if Lutz started it, or if they were already around prior to his involvement in PS1) or the Nei weapons. You may find answers to these questions on other message boards if you want to incorperate them into your story.

Through Dark Forces manipulations, one of Mother Brain's sattelites fall's from orbit and destorys the planet Palma - crippling the seal and causing a chain of events that (coupled with Rolf's destruction of the systemwide control AI Mother Brain) kills off 90% of Algo's population in what's known a the Great Collapse.

Cronologically, Phantasy Star 4 is the next game. It takes place 1,000 years later when civilization is at last begining to rise up again. With the seal weakend by the destruction of Palma, the Profound Darkness is able to release three seperate Dark Force's into the world to finish the task. Old villans like Lassic (who is by this time an undead Lich) are back and accompanied by new villans such as Zio, who is the high priest of a cult which worships the Profound Darkness. You search out the Aeroprism (an artifact from PS1) which guides your party to Ryukros where you are are tested by the guardians and finally learn the genesis of the Algo system. You are also given the "Rings of Algo" which protect you while you travel to the Profound Darkness's dimension to defeat the core of all the evil which has been plaging the Algo system for all these millenia. The killing blow to the Profound Darkness comes from the Elysion - the sword Alis Landale first slayed Dark Falz with which now contains the spirits of all those who died in the fight to protect Algo. With the destruction of the Profound Darkness, the Elysion shatters and guides your party safely out of the collapsing dimension. Thus bringing an end to both Dark Force and the Profound Darkness.

Phantasy Star III takes place after PSIV on a world-ship which escaped from Palma before it was destroyed and was thrown off course in the ensuing chaos. Just as the destruction of Palma allowed the Profound Darkness to release 3 Dark Forces in PSIV's time.. he was also able to release a second Dark Force in PSII's time. This second Dark Force stowed away on the Alissa III (The worldship) and through his influence caused the people aboard to engage in a bloody civil war known as the "Devistation War". The Devistation War ended with the heros of both sides, Orakio and Laya, joining forces to destory Dark Force. Unfortunately, the devide in the populace lingered - with the decendants of Orakio harboring a bitter dispisement to the decendants of Laya. You play through three generations of characters before finally procuring the Nei weapons (a seperate set of Nei weapons than those in PSII) and defeating Dark Force. Yet he is not truely defeated.. as he vows to return again to destory your decendants before subcuming and sending his ruined palace back to the bottom of the lake. Depending on who you chose to marry, you're presented with three seperate endings. In one of them, the worldship careens through a black hole and is thrust thousands of years backwards in space and time to the Sol system (Our solar system) and makes contact with Earth.

If there is any connection of PSO with PS, I believe it's here. The Earthlings studdied the worldships computers and technology. They experimented and used it recklessly - ruining earth in the process. They soon abandoned their planet on their own worldship known as the Noah and headed for the Algo solar system. Once there, they set up the system-wide management AI known as Mother Brain and set the stage for events that happened in PSII.

Dark Force from the Alyssa III was left behind on Earth though.. and I believe it is on Earth (Dubbed Ragol) that PSO really takes place. The "Valley" where you fight Dark Falk looks alot like a dried up lake.. and the bricks and obelisk look like they came streight from the "VR Temple" area - which is basically a recreation of the Sunken Palace in PSIII. The graves could represent Dark Force's promise of the destruction of your party's decendants - and the very "Spaceship" you explore resembles the underbelly of the Alissa III's domed worlds. In fact, there's even an area you can look out of in Ruins 1 that shows what looks like it could be an observation window into the domed areas. (The temple in the background)

Connecting the series is tricky, and I'm sure many people disagree with my views - but I think this route is the one which leaves the fewest loose ends and even ties in the GameGear Phantasy Star games to the equasion. (I didn't go into detail here, since Dark Force/Falz/PD isn't present in those.) I think I've given you the basics of what Dark Force is and the events and people that play an important role in his storyline. You have to almost know the whole story behind each of the games to know the full picture of Dark Force, because he is such an underlying influence over ALL that goes on in Algo throughout the games. I really suggest you head over to www.phantasy-star.net and read through their scripts and the materials there as it'll give you a lot more of the obscure info that I've neglected here, and go into much greater detail of what I have explained.

If you want me to explain how I think the series are connected in greater detail, or if you have any other questions.. just ask. This was a very spotty summary, but should at least give you an idea as to where you want to go with him in your fic.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2003-11-13 14:28, _Sinue_ wrote:
Keep in mind though, that offically Sonic Team recognises NO storyline link between PSO and the rest of the Phantasy Star series.


What gives you that idea? The only time I've seen it brought up in an interview, Yuji Naka specifically stated that it DOES take place in the same universe as the rest of the series. If there's a more recent interview to the contrary, I'd like to see it.

[_Sinue_]

I haven't seen the interview you're refering to. The one I'm talking about comes from an old Famitsu magazine back in the v.1 days. They originally intended for it to tie in (Hence the Shuren artwork you find in the Book of Hunters), but later decided against it.

There's also too many disperancies and guess work involved between the original series and PSO. You can connect them.. but you have to fill in a lot of the gaps yourself and the chances that it's what Sonic Team actually had in mind is pretty slim. Even then, you have to overlook a lot of blantanly obvious "Throw in" stuff - like the Elysion being there despite being destroyed in PS4. Weapons and items have no-where near the same properties their PS series counterparts had.. and that even extends to some spells too. Grants and Megid in PSO are nothing like their PS counterparts.

There is a WHOLE lot of ground to cover in just one game - Ep III, which will be the final chapter in PSO and round out the trilogy. I don't think it will happen.. as they've still got a lot of explaining to do about PSO's own plot at the same time.

So if Yuji Naka said that the games are connected.. just what are the connections then?

[LordMe]

On 2003-11-13 14:09, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psiv/df3.gif



i like this one a lot...the one on PSO(final form)was the best one!!!

[Spartan117]

I know where to find I,II, and III with the GBA collection.

But how do I find 4. I have Nintendo, GBA, Playstation, Gamecube and X-Box. Are they on those systems?

[A2K]

The original Phantasy Star was originally released on the Sega Master System, while 2, 3, and 4 came to Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, again, originally.

[StrongBad]

On 2003-11-13 14:09, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
PS4 Dark Forces
http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psiv/df1.gif




That looks so much like the boss from Contra. That was one hell of a game.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2003-11-13 15:22, _Sinue_ wrote:
I haven't seen the interview you're refering to. The one I'm talking about comes from an old Famitsu magazine back in the v.1 days. They originally intended for it to tie in (Hence the Shuren artwork you find in the Book of Hunters), but later decided against it.

There's also too many disperancies and guess work involved between the original series and PSO. You can connect them.. but you have to fill in a lot of the gaps yourself and the chances that it's what Sonic Team actually had in mind is pretty slim. Even then, you have to overlook a lot of blantanly obvious "Throw in" stuff - like the Elysion being there despite being destroyed in PS4. Weapons and items have no-where near the same properties their PS series counterparts had.. and that even extends to some spells too. Grants and Megid in PSO are nothing like their PS counterparts.

There is a WHOLE lot of ground to cover in just one game - Ep III, which will be the final chapter in PSO and round out the trilogy. I don't think it will happen.. as they've still got a lot of explaining to do about PSO's own plot at the same time.

So if Yuji Naka said that the games are connected.. just what are the connections then?



There are indeed many theories concerning the connection. Some of them even work. They DO typically require a considerable amount of assumptions, however. Concerning Elsyion.. It didn't exist in previous Phantasy Star games. Chaz used a sword called Elsydeon, however. There's no indication that these two are the same sword, though their names are rather similar.

In any case, I found the interview by wandering around in the Webpage feature on the original DC version of PSO. Never could find it anywhere else, unfortunately.

[FoMarsRock419]

boo!

[Hikara]

On 2003-11-13 17:16, FoMarsRock419 wrote:
boo!



Oh, yes well, thank you for that.

Thanks, everyone for the extensive knowledge concerning Dark Falz. It really seems to help. Now, as for the first of my series, the Protectorate of Light, Falz is dead. Well, almost dead. He will be this next chapter. But with the information you've just given me, I now have even MORE insentive to do what I had origninally planned in doing in my 3rd installment (after I write my 2nd...)

Again, thanks. And if anyone else has any extra info they'd like to add, go ahead.

But with the whole Ragol being Earth thing... It sounds iffy, but it just might work...

[_Sinue_]

Concerning Elsyion.. It didn't exist in previous Phantasy Star games. Chaz used a sword called Elsydeon, however.

I realize that, but considering also the sheer number of translation errors contained within the game series, I think it's fairly safe to assume that the Elysion and the Elysdion are intended to be the same sword. Although it looks radically different and shoots foie, that doesn't mean the two aren't one in the same. The Psycho Wand, for example, looks NOTHING like what it did in Phantasy Star 4.. and it's only special property in that game was the ability to dispel magical barriers. I did not cast TP free Techs and did not halve TP consumption at the cost of draining HP.

You could also say that the two Psycho Wands are completely different weapons - and that would be correct actually, since PSO is a stand alone Gaiden game.

You're right in that connecting the games together, by any means, requires assumptions and logic to fill in the storyline gaps. It's like Fanfiction, and done by fans for their enjoyment and to make them feel a bit more fulfilled by PSO. But that's all it is. I made my theory to help tie up all the loose ends in the games.. and bring all of the games together under one consistant and evolving timeline. I think I've done a decent job of it, but I realize that "IF" the series are connected and Sega comes out and explains it all - it'll most likely end up not being anything like my ideas. *Shrugs* And definately not like Mike Ripplinger's ideas.. Towing Dark Falz away to an abondoned planet in the Landale? *Cringes* Too corny, too many questions still unanswered.

[The_Pea_Guy]

Hey, Meira and Sinue, you're explanation on Dark Force and the Profound Darkness are good, but aren't they both one and the same being, rather then being seperate dark entities?

I reckon that Sinue got the idea of Dark Force being a 'pawn' was from the Bishop of the Gumbious Temple (originally called the Corona Tower on PS1) on PS4.

Quotes from Gumbious Temple, PS4:

Chaz: "What is the Profound Darkness?"

Bishop: "It is the root of all evil that has brought death and destruction to Algo so long ago... Dark Force is but a tool of that existance"

However, Le Roof of Rykros explains that Dark Force was not a servant of the Profound Darkness; Dark Force was the most intense part of the Profound Darkness' hate-filled spirit who appears in Algo in physical form every 1000 years. In other words - Dark Force was the Profound Darkness all along.

Sorry if I was a little OT there - and my explanation was not meant to critizies yours, Sinue & Meira. I was expressing my views on what was said on that part of the PS4 storyline.

Hope this info helps out to the person who's witing a fanfic based on the villain of the PS saga, Dark Force.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The_Pea_Guy on 2003-11-14 12:06 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The_Pea_Guy on 2003-11-14 12:33 ]</font>

[_Sinue_]

Exactly. Their relationship has always been a bit hard for me to explain, but a good example of the same type of relationship is found in Christianity. Think of it like Jesus and God. Jesus WAS god, but he was also his own seperate being who could walk in the moral world and do God's work. In Catholasisim, there's the Holy Trinity. Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit.. even though they are all seperate, they are all the same being.

I see Dark Falz and the Profound Darkness the same way. Dark Falz -IS- the physical manifestation of the Profound Darkness. He's like an appendage, on the outside arranging things for the Profound Darkness's return.. but at the same time, he's also his own being.

And here's an interesting question to raise..

If the series IS connected, and PSO takes place sometime after PSIV - then what is Dark Falz's purpose? He doens't have one without the Profound Darkness to release. The very fact that he IS the Profound Darkness, makes you wonder if he shouldn't have just vaporized when the PD was defeated. That's part of what lead me to believe that PSO takes place between PSII and PSIV. Yet, the Dark Falz you fight in PSO is far more powerful than any other Dark Falz/Force you fight before it. By arranging the timeline a little bit, I can shift my theory to have PSO take place some time after PSIV. In that way, you could see the last remaining Dark Falz trying gather as much power as he can since he is the last remaining remenant of the PD. Sort of like if I cut off your hand, instead of regenerating your hand - the hand regenerated YOU.

This would explain why he toyed with Pioneer 2 by destorying Pioneer 1 right in front of their eyes and then causing havok with the search and rescue teams. He's never NEEDED to possess a Human body before in any of the games (although he could), and yet in PSO there are several references to Dark Falz "NEEDING" a body - and you can hear is need to "Evolve" through what Ult says in Soul of Steel.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Sinue_ on 2003-11-14 12:25 ]</font>

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2003-11-14 04:54, _Sinue_ wrote:
And definately not like Mike Ripplinger's ideas.. Towing Dark Falz away to an abondoned planet in the Landale? *Cringes* Too corny, too many questions still unanswered.


Mike Ripplinger thinks that Lutz went to the Air Castle with Rolf & co. after Phantasy Star II, because the Ge-Le-Thouls (or what ever they were) call Rune, "Lutz," rather than accepting that Lutz and Noah are the same individual. To me, that is FAR more contrived than his theory on Dark Falz in PSO. I do have to give him credit for running a very nice site, though; as well as being a stronger debater. He and I have had a few long threads on the PSDB.

Personally, I think the best theory out there, is that the Ruins are the remains of a Dome from Phantasy Star 3; either from the Neo Palm or the Alisa III.

[_Sinue_]

Yeah, I agree. If you're going to make a connection in the series - then the visual evidence all but confirms that the Ruins are the Alysa III. It could also be the Neo-Palm, but I find the idea that two Dark Force's escaped and just so happened to end up on the two ships which went spiraling out of the solar system to be a bit of a streach. In Sean's ending, you see the Neo-Palm contact the Alysa III.. so it's possible that Dark Force could have transfered over after being defeated.. but why would he? And where would that leave the visual evidence of Temple ruins at the bottom of a valley in the Ruins? Could the Neo-Palm have had a sunken palace as well? I dunno..

In any case, the Alysa III only meets up with the Neo-Palm in one ending. If they go on from there, it screws up the timeline for the Alysa III landing on Earth and starting the chain of events which would lead to the Earthmen creating a world-ship of their own to travel to Algo and create Mother Brain. I guess it still could have happened by chance, but just by having Sega throw the Alisa III back in time to Earth in the endings at ALL insinuates that could very well be what Sega was intending - as it's the only ending which adds any substansial depth to PSIII's role in the Phantasy Star universe.

This is why I still think that the ruins are the Alysa III, which would have to mean that Ragol is either Earth or some un-named planet. The un-named planet has two moons though.. so it's not Earth. Ragol (I don't think) is EVER shown with a Moon. That could be coincidental, in that the Moon is always out of the frame on the other side of the planet. (After all, most all the shots of Ragol are daylight shots) If there were two moons though, you would think that at least one of them would be partially visable, even in daylight.

So that pretty much connects it right back to "Ragol is Earth".

Of course you can discard all the visual evidence in the same way you kind of have to discard many of the PS series's legendary weapons being where they shouldn't be.. and just come up with something else entirely. Like.. Wren towing Dark Force away to a abandoned planet in the Landale. = /

[The_Pea_Guy]

On 2003-11-14 12:13, _Sinue_ wrote:

And here's an interesting question to raise..

If the series IS connected, and PSO takes place sometime after PSIV - then what is Dark Falz's purpose? He doesn't have one without the Profound Darkness to release. The very fact that he IS the Profound Darkness, makes you wonder if he shouldn't have just vaporized when the PD was defeated. That's part of what lead me to believe that PSO takes place between PSII and PSIV. Yet, the Dark Falz you fight in PSO is far more powerful than any other Dark Falz/Force you fight before it. By arranging the timeline a little bit, I can shift my theory to have PSO take place some time after PSIV. In that way, you could see the last remaining Dark Falz trying gather as much power as he can since he is the last remaining remenant of the PD. Sort of like if I cut off your hand, instead of regenerating your hand - the hand regenerated YOU.

This would explain why he toyed with Pioneer 2 by destorying Pioneer 1 right in front of their eyes and then causing havok with the search and rescue teams. He's never NEEDED to possess a Human body before in any of the games (although he could), and yet in PSO there are several references to Dark Falz "NEEDING" a body - and you can hear is need to "Evolve" through what Ult says in Soul of Steel.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Sinue_ on 2003-11-14 12:25 ]</font>



I dunno.

I think maybe the reason why the Darkness still exists in the universe, 800 years after PS4 is because of the time warp on the PS4 ending. Maybe the Darkness used the last of its power to transport itself further into time before Chaz and co. can finish it with the final blow. But that doesn't explain who sealed Dark Force in the spaceship on Ragol, doesn't it?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The_Pea_Guy on 2003-11-14 13:29 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The_Pea_Guy on 2003-11-14 13:30 ]</font>

[HUnewearl_Meira]

I tend to favor Dark Force being transfered to the NeoPalm, sealed there, the NeoPalm evacuated to the Alisa III, then crashed into Ragol.

Still, that doesn't set things up for PSII. It DOES set things up for PSO, though. Besides that, I'm included to figure that if a true ending were to be selected for PSIII, it would be Sean's ending. Why? Because Sean is the only 3rd generation character that happens to be an orphan-- Which would make the heroes of all 4 of the original PS games orphans. Alis Landale was an orphan. Rolf was an orphan. Chaz was an orphan. Sean was an orphan.

[_Sinue_]

Oh, and one other thing you reminded me of. For a long time, people have said that Ragol can't be Earth because of the Esper seal on the Pillars - and there were no Espers on Earth. Ripplinger says this actually in his theory on Camineet.net.

I've found a way to put an Esper(s) on the Alisa III through the presence of Nei weapons. It was a bit of a streach.. but it worked. I'd totally forgotten about the Neo-Palm though. In Sean's ending, the Neo-Palm tells the Alysa III that they detected an explosion and guessed that it was Dark Force, so they came to see if they needed any assistance. They also warn the Alysa III that Dark Force will rise again in 1,000 years and that together they should destory it once and for all.

Now.. I could be wrong.. but wasn't knowladge of Dark Force extremely scarce in PSII's time (when Palma was destroyed and the Neo-Palm left the Algo system)? How could they have known that Dark Force would revive in a millenial cycle, when only the Espers knew any kind of detail on Dark Force at the time. After PSII it would have been obvious, but noone but the Espers knew that Dark Force was behind the events leading up to and durring PSII's story.

It's no smoking gun, and just circumstancial evidence at best - but it's yet something else that points favorably to my idea that, yes, there WERE Espers on Palma - and some of them were aboard the worldships when the planet was destoryed. They just didn't play a significant part in PSIII.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

It could also be argued that the Elders of New Haven were Espers.

[Hikara]

Okay, I see you all rambling on and on and on about how Ragol could be Earth, and how it couldn't so here's my two cents.

I know nothing of the PS series other than what has been discussed here. But if Ragol IS Earth, there could be the fact that maybe something happened to the Moon. Notice how the entire planet is completely abandoned aside from mutated forms of large bears, etc. etc. Humans may have left, or were extinct, from the planet due to some odd catastrophe. If so, no moon.

But if this is the Alysia III (or however you guys spelled it,) then how in the world did all these D-Cellular Life forms come to be? If Dark Falz was transported via this spaceship, then there's one theroy saying he could have infected the "survivors" of the ship with D-Cells, causing them to mutate. Or, Dark Falz created them. Or better yet, they spontaneously appeared out of the middle of no where.

I guess what I'm saying is PSO presents so many different things to throw off inexperianced people like me, so... throw out answers, and argue over them as well.

[_Sinue_]

That is possible. They certainly know quite a bit about the Nei weapons. The only character you're introduced to previous to them that know about the Nei weapons is Lutz. Lutz is, of course, and Esper. THE Esper. Heh.

What gets me, is that Lutz only had you collect Nei weapons which were scattered around Dezolis. Palma was already destoryed at the time. Yet, you find Nei weapons on the Alisa III. A lot of them actually. But geographically speaking, they're all on a worldship. One of 400. Which all launched from 1 planet. That's a HUGE amount of area to spread the weapons out in.. and yet they're all concentrated in one little World ship.

First off, the WorldShips are artifically constructed... so that right there tells you SOMEONE collected them and put them there at one point in time. This happened before Palma was destoryed, which means it had to have been an Esper who did it since they were the only ones who knew about them. If that Esper had stayed on Palma when it was destroyed, or left back for Dezolis long before that, no-one on the Alisa III would have known about the Nei Weapons.. not even the elders.

The Elders could well be decendants of a collective which that Esper formed to protect the Nei weapons through the generations. Espers, but by another name.

[SpyroDi]

I try to restrain myself from reading all of this PS4 info...I'm playing through it right now >.>

But anyway,this topic is starting to turn into a PS4 discussion...some of you are getting off-topic http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[_Sinue_]

I doubt it was the survivors of the Alisa III which were mutated into the creatures you see in the Ruins. At least from perspective (Aron's ending to PSIII), the Alisa III landed on Earth and it's from the survivors and the Alisa III itself that Earthlings aquired so much of the technology they had by PSII's time. It's also where they learned the location of Algo. So you've got all that time spent learning the technology, putting it to use, improving on it, then having your planet ruined by it.. and then you have to take the time to build a Worldship of your OWN to fly to Algo. In that time, I think the survivors of the Alisa III would have blended into Earth's population pretty fluidly. They probably would have had their own pockets of culture, but that most likely didn't last all that long as the generations came and went.

In PSO itself, it explains to you the origin of of many of the creatures there. Native Animals are attacking because they're pissed off at having their territory invaded - and their anger is probably fueled by Dark Falz's presence. In the upcomming "Rappy Holiday" quest, that's the situation you're presented with - as the Hildebear god tells you to leave their land. (And then proceeds to rain down fire on your head, which you must dodge while fighting monsters)

The Altered Beasts are a result of Beta 772's (Del Rol) mutagenic venom which he has been injecting into animals for quite some time. Beta 772 was created by Dr. Osto using test sample D-Cells he collected from Flowen.

Machines, are somewhat of a mystery. There were some tests done with the D-Cells and how they affected machines. This is a good part of the Tower Quest story. Osto, Graves, and the others created "Mother" to speed along evolutionary processes. They created three autonomous AI systems, and had planned to mix D-Cells with them and stick them in MOTHER to see the outcome. Olga was the first canidate, but due to Osto's impatience, he decided to graft the Olga AI directly into Heithcliff - which resulted in Olga Flow. Calus was most likely next.. but the explosion and subsequent destruction of Pioneer 1 put an end to that. A computer virus from the experiments had gotten loose sometime prior, and was infecting the systems. Calus was able to fight off the infection for some time - perhaps because his emails and hopes of seeing Elly one day gave him a reason not to give in. Vol Opt, however, was infected with the virus and it is HIM who took over the machines and turned them hostile.

Ruins monsters are the result of Pioneer 1's Army, including most of WORKS and Flowen's command. As Flowen says himself, they were decimated in battle. He made it out alive, but infected. That infection, nurtured by Osto, is what turned him into Olga. Most of the "Grunt" type enemies you fight in the ruins are probably reminants of Pioneer 1's military who were infected an transformed. Special monsters also appear there, such as Claws - Grand Sorceres - Chaos Bringers - Belra's - ect. I can't speak for Belra's Claws, or Gunners, but Grand Sorcerers and Chaos Bringers are returning enemies from previous Phantasy Star games. These are creatures that Dark Force has spawned into existance to aid him. Chaos Sorceres were actually intelligent and could talk in PS4. I would assume that Belras, Gunners, and Claws were also spawned in a similar way. Delsabers I tend to think of being elite soldiers at one time. They certain are more vicious than most Ruins monsters - and the Delsaber's Sheild looks kind of like it has a ring or an ID tag or something on it.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2003-11-14 14:40, _Sinue_ wrote:
Machines, are somewhat of a mystery. There were some tests done with the D-Cells and how they affected machines. This is a good part of the Tower Quest story. Osto, Graves, and the others created "Mother" to speed along evolutionary processes. They created three autonomous AI systems, and had planned to mix D-Cells with them and stick them in MOTHER to see the outcome. Olga was the first canidate, but due to Osto's impatience, he decided to graft the Olga AI directly into Heithcliff - which resulted in Olga Flow. Calus was most likely next.. but the explosion and subsequent destruction of Pioneer 1 put an end to that. A computer virus from the experiments had gotten loose sometime prior, and was infecting the systems. Calus was able to fight off the infection for some time - perhaps because his emails and hopes of seeing Elly one day gave him a reason not to give in. Vol Opt, however, was infected with the virus and it is HIM who took over the machines and turned them hostile.


Given previous examples of Dark Falz' capacities, I'd assume that it was Dark Falz that was hacking Calus.
http://www.phantasy-star.net/art/screenshots/psiv/df1.gif

[_Sinue_]

I'm not sure. To me, that picture looks like he's embedded physically into the computer terminal - and very well could be manipulating it manually. If Dark Force didn't need a physical presence to infest computer systems.. then why did he need to send a Chaos Sorcerer to sabotage your party's ship? Once again.. he needed a physical presence.

Hell, when he crashed the sattelite into Palma to destory the planet, he had to manipulate the Earthlings. They even tell you at the end of the game that they did it. If Dark Force could just hack AI's like that.. why not just hack MotherBrain and send sattelites crashing down all over Algol - destroying ALL the planets and setting the Profound Darkness free back in PSII's time.

Something happened when they grafted Olga to Flowen.. it crossed the barrier between biological and mechanized. Through the Olga-Flowen connection, it became a computer virus and spread throughout the network that way.

I'm not exactly sure if that's how the computer infection came to be - but that's what I'd put my money on for now.

[KaFKa]

... if you ask me, falz is one of many. and that the "profound darkness" doesen't exist, neither does the "grat light" or whatever you guys call it. i think that this is a whole different timeline. for all we know, this could be taking place BEFORE PS number one. if this is the case, falz is the embodiment of darkness of people. this leads to the question of "then, where is the light?" from what almost all of us have experienced, good is MUCH more subtle than darkness. for all we know, the people on pineer 2 could be the embodiment of light. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

heh, this is my extremist point of view that is probably going to get shunned/flamed/ignored. but that's ok, i got to put in my three cents http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[HUnewearl_Meira]

The seal seen EVERYWHERE in PSO (most prominently during Photon Blasts) specificially mentions the Great Light, and even suggests that the people of Coral made a pact with the Great Light.

In any case... Falz DID have a physical presence, as you say. Falz infected Flowen. Osto grafted Olga into Flowen. Falz was therefore grafted into the network. Mind you that Calus specifically said that he was being hacked in Knowing One's Heart.

[_Sinue_]

The seal seen EVERYWHERE in PSO (most prominently during Photon Blasts) specificially mentions the Great Light, and even suggests that the people of Coral made a pact with the Great Light.

Hmm.. that's a new one to me. I know it lists the names of the Photon Blasts around the ring, but I don't think I've ever seen any mention of the Great Light or a insinuation of a pact with him. Shed some light on this please. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Also.. this doesn't really have a place anywhere in the other forums, but I found another small bit of trivia about PSO. There's actually screenshots of the prebuild version of PSO stashed away in the game. They're on the computer moniters you see in Ep I Mines.. and the best place for me to tell you where to see them is on Calus's control panel in "Knowing One's Heart". I got to looking at him tonight, and recognized the small green pictures as shots of "Pioneer 2 Town" and two "Forest" scenes. You can see the full color versions of them over at Phantasy-Star.net.. and they look quite different from the PSO we actually got.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2003-11-15 05:43, _Sinue_ wrote:
Hmm.. that's a new one to me. I know it lists the names of the Photon Blasts around the ring, but I don't think I've ever seen any mention of the Great Light or a insinuation of a pact with him. Shed some light on this please. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


On the outer ring it lists the names. The two inner rings say this:
I WISH IT AT AN ALLIANCE FROM SEVERAL YEARS AGO
PLEASE PROTECT US BY VIRTUE OF YOUR GREAT LIGHT POWER

[Robo47]

Hmm Ragol being Earth... sounds like Planet of the Apes!

[RavenTW]

My thoughts:

Dark Falz/Force was NOT greated by the Profound Darkness, and is it's own dark entity that has it's own wants and desires. It's either like a human being (being born and dying), or it is agelessly immortal. Either way, it somehow has the ability to ressurect ever millinium after dying (possibly a curse or dark blessing?), so he constantly becomes born and dies again. It's possible that the Profound Darkness somehow influenced Falz (who was probably already a very hostile entity) into creating chaos on the Algo system and therefore releasing PD upon the world. Now, Dark Falz (most likely, I haven't played the whole game) died in PS4, even after assuming three forms and manipulating Zio, and waited to come back.

At the end of PS4, about a thousand years later, Dark Falz probably came back, and when the Algolians found out, they realized the futility of destroying him, therefore, the sealed him inside a starship and sent it in a random direction to banish him from the system. On the trip, it's likely he died of old age, or maybe he didn't die at all and stayed there for all the time. I really think the last one is true.

Anyway, centuries later, the ruination Falz created begins to take it's toll, and as the last resources in Algo are expired, they turn to colonizing a new planet. After finding Ragol and landing, they realize that The planet they were colonizing was where they had sealed Falz. Falz, angry at them for what they did, saved a little power (it was possible he had weakened from the seal), and destroyed Central Dome when P2 arrived. However, this weakened him, so he waited for Rico to come to him, and then took control of her, taking her body and mutating it into his own hellish form. Then he combated the other hunters and lost, dying again and having to wait another 1000 years. (frankly, having PSO 3 at the end of the cycle would have been cooler)

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Eh... It's rather firmly established by Le Roof that Dark Force was indeed created by the Profound Darkness. Quite specifically stated, Dark Force/Falz is made up from the most intense portion of the Profound Darkness.

It is worth noting, however, that one way or another, the last generation of Phantasy Star 3, no matter how you look at it, takes place most DEFINITELY after the end of Phantasy Star 4.

[_Sinue_]

Well what are your thoughts about this "Alliance from several years ago"? It doesn't make sence to me.. as the Great Light departed Algo billions of years ago. If the potential release of the Profound Darkness isn't enough to bring him back.. why would he bother comming back at all? You could say the Alliance took the form of Guardians keeping a guarding eye over the system and their role in helping the Protectors of Algo defeat the Profound Darkness - but that particualar "Alliance" had lasted long before Humans, Dezolians, or Motavians had ever inhabited Algo. Several years ago, doesn't imply any great length of time.. and it's hard for me to imagine an omnipotent celesital being comming down from the heavens to make an "Alliance" with a race of people after the only threat to it has already been destroyed. The only way I could realistically see it working, is if you adhear to the Japaneese version of Le Roof's story and assume Le Roof and the other guardians are those exact same beings of light who defeated the Darkness all those eons ago, and were left behind to keep watch over the prison while their bretheren explored the stars.

I'd say maybe it had something to do with the Espers - since they are the only ones even CLUED into what's really going on.. and that's pretty much proven infeasable (if not impossible) because Lutz/Rune was even surprised to know the TRUE genesis or Algo.

That lil tidbit of info comes from WAY off in left feild, and doesn't fit into ANY of the current theories about a connection of the series as far as I know.



And you're also right in that PSIII takes place AFTER PSIV.. which confirms that a Dark Force CAN continue to exist without the Profound Darkness. Seeing as how closely the two are connected (it is basically an extension of the same conciousness after all).. it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the Dark Force on the Alysa III knew of the Profound Darkness's destruction and set the gears in motion for the Profound Darkness's ressurection. *Shrug* He does reffer back to the millenial cycle though, stating that he will be back in 1,000 years to destory your decendants. The millenial cycle is a caused by the weakening of the inter-dimensial seal. Without that seal.. there is no millenial cycle. *Shrug* Perhaps Dark Force DIDN'T know the Profound Darkness was gone...?

[IceBurner]

Perfect translation between Japanese and English is next to impossible on most budgets. Phantasy Star suffered greatly & while PSO is much better, it's still not quite spot on. The "seals" were most likely never touched by the crew who translated foreign versions of PSO. All Pioneer font writings are graphics, probably "translated" by the art team alone, and appear exactly the same in all language versions.

"Several" could have mistakenly been used instead of "many", which makes a bit more sense: "I wish it an alliance from many years ago". The difference between "several" and "many" might not be apparent in even the slightest way to a non-native English speaker with no formal training.

[_Sinue_]

"Many" is still too finite a word in my opinion. Meria and I think we've stumbled onto something, and it looks like the true date of PSO is (in fact) probably 3084 AW or around there as suggested by the music credits and the Flowen Weapons. That would place PSO roughly some 830 years after the events of PSIV. (Assuming, that is, that the AW and AUW calanders are the same) Not quite a Millennium, but the Falz we fight here is same Dark Force which was aboard the Alisa III in PS III and was not released from the Seal of the Algo System - thus rendering the Millennial cycle which the other Dark Forces followed meaningless.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Sinue_ on 2003-11-16 17:15 ]</font>