Where's that damned IGN drop chart...

[Aurra]

Yes, I know it's "horribly innacurate," and the "spawn of Satan," and "going to cause the downfall of PSO," but I want to see it anyway. Nya. Anyone got a link by chance?

[Wood_Golem]

http://faqs.ign.com/articles/394/394902p1.html
here.. i never leave Pioneer 2 without it

[Aurra]

Ah, thank you good sir.

[rena-ko]

here (http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/~s5730271/rena/data.html) another version...

[heyf00L]

That one doesn't factor in drop-anything rates. Mine does.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: heyf00L on 2003-11-15 13:05 ]</font>

[Soukosa]

On 2003-11-15 13:05, heyf00L wrote:
That one doesn't factor in drop-anything rates. Mine does.

Which helps to make it even more inaccurate.

[Hrith]

The one Rena-ko posted seems less inaccurate. Still highly inaccurate (as far as my IDs are concerned), but something scares me...
It says Death Gunner has no drop, only Dark Gunner >_<
Is there truly a difference between those monsters ? Is this why I never got anything from them ?

[Aurra]

Why does everyone think f00l's chart is so crappy? It tells you exactly what enemy drops what, and gives at least a ballpark estimate of how rare everything is. It's better than PSO Wumarkus was and everyone used to adore that...

[Zarana]

People don't like realizing that they'll never find certain things, or that they've been unlucky with others. It has nothing to do with the guide, whether it's accurate or not.

[Richard]

On 2003-11-15 15:29, Aurra wrote:
It's better than PSO Wumarkus was and everyone used to adore that...



It also has just as many errors...

No offense, heyf00l, your charts are great. But here are some things you might want to change:

- WHITILL Spaceship Baranz drops TWIN PSYCHOGUN, not PANZER FAUST.

- VIRIDIA CCA Meriltas drops Cure/Shock, not Cure/Freeze.

- Are you sure about the REDRIA Spaceship Pan Arms drop? God/TP? I've never seen that listed anywhere else, most Japanese sites list it as Ultimate Frame or nothing at all. Just wondering where you got that from...

- It looks silly calling the HEAVEN PUNISHER the HEAVEN's PUNISHER. And the SOUL BANISH the SOUL BANISHer. Doesn't mean much to most people; but to me, it sort of gives off an unprofessional look.

[heyf00L]

Which helps to make it even more inaccurate.
Proove it wrong. The drop rates are from Famitsu and the drop-anything rates are from PSOWorld. I had the game's item drop file, but the drop rates were (of course) in hex and I never figured out what they translated to, but when the Famitsu numbers came out I was about to match up the hex to the actual drop rate.
Unless Famitsu and PSOWorld are wrong, the numbers are right, but that doesn't mean you have to find stuff at that rate. It's called randomness. It's why you can play yatzee and no one gets the same score.

It says Death Gunner has no drop, only Dark Gunner >_<
Is there truly a difference between those monsters ? Is this why I never got anything from them ?
Yes, they are two different enemies. In the game's rare item drop file Death Gunner is always zeroed out.

[heyf00L]

- WHITILL Spaceship Baranz drops TWIN PSYCHOGUN, not PANZER FAUST.

- VIRIDIA CCA Meriltas drops Cure/Shock, not Cure/Freeze.

- Are you sure about the REDRIA Spaceship Pan Arms drop? God/TP? I've never seen that listed anywhere else, most Japanese sites list it as Ultimate Frame or nothing at all. Just wondering where you got that from...

- It looks silly calling the HEAVEN PUNISHER the HEAVEN's PUNISHER. And the SOUL BANISH the SOUL BANISHer. Doesn't mean much to most people; but to me, it sort of gives off an unprofessional look.

I just checked on the Redria Spaceship Pan Arms and yeah, it is Ultimate Frame.
The ultimate and very hard chart started out as just a compilation of people's reported findings and other people's charts (meaning lots of errors) and things got left over from that.
Lemme check the other 2 things you mentioned.

[heyf00L]

Alright, I think the whitill thing is wrong too. I don't have my "tools" with me (I made the charts at work http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif) so I'm just sifting through a long list of number to check all this and it's not easy.

Onto that viridia one.

[heyf00L]

I tracked down where the Viridia error accured. I was using a list of item hex numbers from a hacker website and they had cure/shock and cure/freeze mixed up.

I know that Redria Hildeblue drops Cure/Shock so I went and found it's hex number and checked it against the Viridia Meritas and they were the same.

[Zalana]

What happened to that other chart it was psosrrweb something. Don't remember cause I'm not too sure. It wasn't a bad chart IMO.

[Wufei]

Thanks for that chart, heyf00L. My friends and I have been using it for quite some time. It's helped us to not waste our time on some nearly impossible drops, and it's given us hope for finding other things.

[Hrith]

Thank you for telling me Death Gunner has no drop *weeps*

btw *still weeping* the Ultimate Frame not being a rare, it cannot be Pan Arms' drop, simple. It's just that no one ever reported its drop, God/TP seems hughly plausible in REDRIA.

[Nohra]

Depends on which Pan Arms you're talking about. Spaceship PAs usually have slightly better drops than Caves PAs.

[TheAlmightyNewbie]

On 2003-11-15 13:05, heyf00L wrote:
That one doesn't factor in drop-anything rates. Mine does.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: heyf00L on 2003-11-15 13:05 ]</font>


Yours says Whitill Asuka drops from Gol Dragon at a 1/5 rate. The Japanese site says it drops at about 20.3%. On my second run for Asuka (Which I still don't have) he dropped nothing. There's one obvious example of how your chart is incorrect. If you overlooked this, then please change it. If not, then are you saying that the difference between Gol Dragon's drop rate and a 100% drop rate is only enough to eliminate the .3%?

[rena-ko]

people always seem to fail to realize that these charts - both heyfool's and the one i host (i'm not the author, i just host it) - are just a help. its a rehashing of tons of dropdata, rounding it up to have a hold on what it might be in real.

drop chance is not identical with find chance.
or do you get 6 eyes exactly every sixth time you throw a dice?

about deathgunner... hm... i think they are actually darkgunners. maybe an error while working at the raw data, but i dont have contact with the original hosts so i cant ask (even given i could manage to write a japanese mail to them).

why i'm thinking that? well, it names pal rappy in ep2 as well as love rappy. so according to the charts i host, if you happen to stumble across a pal in temple, you wont find anything rare ^-^;

[rena-ko]

On 2003-11-16 11:13, TheAlmightyNewbie wrote:
Yours says Whitill Asuka drops from Gol Dragon at a 1/5 rate. The Japanese site says it drops at about 20.3%. On my second run for Asuka (Which I still don't have) he dropped nothing. There's one obvious example of how your chart is incorrect. If you overlooked this, then please change it. If not, then are you saying that the difference between Gol Dragon's drop rate and a 100% drop rate is only enough to eliminate the .3%?


on my first attempt to get an asuka from barba ray with pinkal it dropped it. it was the second time i killed the ray under pinkal.
so in your eyes this proves its drop rate to be 50%?

i had to kill 7 pal rappies with oran to get a star amplifier. does that mean 50% is incorrect? the 8th gave a star amp as well. and now?

i killed 4 pal rappies and only the fourth dropped a red handgun under redria. still... does that prove 50% false?

i got a magic stone iritista from my second redria torr slain who was my second one seen. what does that say about the 1/12 dropchance?

i tell you, what : nothing.
its all about averages.

*edit: pointin out the obvious more clearly*

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2003-11-16 12:17 ]</font>

[Nohra]

...bosses don't have a 100% drop rate. No matter what anyone tells you, or whatever anyone's guide may say, BOSSES DO NOT HAVE A 100% DROP RATE. >.o The only enemies with perfect drop rates are rare enemies and rappies.

[TheAlmightyNewbie]

On 2003-11-16 12:14, rena-ko wrote:


On 2003-11-16 11:13, TheAlmightyNewbie wrote:
Yours says Whitill Asuka drops from Gol Dragon at a 1/5 rate. The Japanese site says it drops at about 20.3%. On my second run for Asuka (Which I still don't have) he dropped nothing. There's one obvious example of how your chart is incorrect. If you overlooked this, then please change it. If not, then are you saying that the difference between Gol Dragon's drop rate and a 100% drop rate is only enough to eliminate the .3%?


on my first attempt to get an asuka from barba ray with pinkal it dropped it. it was the second time i killed the ray under pinkal.
so in your eyes this proves its drop rate to be 50%?

i had to kill 7 pal rappies with oran to get a star amplifier. does that mean 50% is incorrect? the 8th gave a star amp as well. and now?

i killed 4 pal rappies and only the fourth dropped a red handgun under redria. still... does that prove 50% false?

i got a magic stone iritista from my second redria torr slain who was my second one seen. what does that say about the 1/12 dropchance?

i tell you what, nothing.
its all about averages.


You're missing my point.

I have done three runs for Asuka so far. I don't yet have it, and I'm fine with that. I wasn't expecting to get it this early. If I do 10 runs and don't have it, I'm not going to argue with the drop charts. I'm not too stupid to realize that it is based mostly on luck and that the drop charts give ballpark estimates only.

BTW Nohra - that's exactly what I'm trying to tell heyf00l. I'm using a specific example of a boss NOT dropping something to show that they do not have 100% drop rates, yet his and the JP site's odds are practically identical.

edit: and in case you missed it earlier in this thread, heyf00l's chart factors in drop-anything rates and the JP site's chart does not. Meaning if they have the same drop rate for a certain rare item, heyf00l is stating that the enemy has a 100% drop-anything rate.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TheAlmightyNewbie on 2003-11-16 12:20 ]</font>

[mercenary8288]

1/5 is 20% and thats an average if im right- you can kill 5 of the gol dragons and still not get it, for skyly the sange is 1/2 for mil lilys well ive killed two and just money found a third and i died(DAMNIT) but for all i know i might not have goten it from that lily. these charts where a help i mean for my oran character the drop for crimson assaisin is redpartisan 1/500 sumthing and guess what i got it from the first one i found really its all probibility
well since i was watching my brother whoop gol dragons ass ult mode while i was typing this i hope i didnt type anything stupid or wrong

[rena-ko]

On 2003-11-16 12:18, TheAlmightyNewbie wrote:
You're missing my point.

I have done three runs for Asuka so far. I don't yet have it, and I'm fine with that. I wasn't expecting to get it this early. If I do 10 runs and don't have it, I'm not going to argue with the drop charts. I'm not too stupid to realize that it is based mostly on luck and that the drop charts give ballpark estimates only.

BTW Nohra - that's exactly what I'm trying to tell heyf00l. I'm using a specific example of a boss NOT dropping something to show that they do not have 100% drop rates, yet his and the JP site's odds are practically identical.

edit: and in case you missed it earlier in this thread, heyf00l's chart factors in drop-anything rates and the JP site's chart does not. Meaning if they have the same drop rate for a certain rare item, heyf00l is stating that the enemy has a 100% drop-anything rate.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TheAlmightyNewbie on 2003-11-16 12:20 ]</font>


i wonder where on the japanese drop charts its written that they in- or exclude "empty drops".

i dont know how both charts compiled their data, but even if the percents are different, this is no proof because - like you stated yourself - its all about chance.

edit: someday! eventually! i'll get rid of that mixing up of prove and proof. i swear to any god! curse you! err.. never mind..

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2003-11-16 12:29 ]</font>

[Nohra]

Newbie, if you've got a Pinkal, you might want to try taking on Barba with it. Same drop rate for Asukas. >.>

[LordMe]

...???!!! i've gotta kill a lot of barble's



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LordMe on 2003-11-16 13:43 ]</font>

[Nohra]

Barba. Barba as in Barba Ray. Not Barble. Nooo. Barble = Wrong. Barba = Right. Barba si teh win.

[LordMe]

no i said barble the enemy that take's place of gobooma's on ult ok

[Soukosa]

I've decided that I'm not going to argue about this any more. It'd be so pointless. This place is full of so many closed-minded people that even if I were to bring forth all the data to show how inaccurate this stuff is, most of you would still follow what's already laid down. It was like that when I played around with chao in SA2:B. I ended up hacking them, figured out how alot about how they tick and found that alot of the chao info sites were wrong on things. When I tried to point out that they are wrong, most people refused to believe me and went on following the incorrect information of the sites that existed. So, I'm no longer going to fight people here and I will just continue on with only sharing what I've found with those that I can trust and such.

[rena-ko]

On 2003-11-16 14:06, Sounomi wrote:
I've decided that I'm not going to argue about this any more. It'd be so pointless. This place is full of so many closed-minded people that even if I were to bring forth all the data to show how inaccurate this stuff is, most of you would still follow what's already laid down. It was like that when I played around with chao in SA2:B. I ended up hacking them, figured out how alot about how they tick and found that alot of the chao info sites were wrong on things. When I tried to point out that they are wrong, most people refused to believe me and went on following the incorrect information of the sites that existed. So, I'm no longer going to fight people here and I will just continue on with only sharing what I've found with those that I can trust and such.

trying to convince others (esp. in the internet) has a low hit rate *smiles*

[heyf00L]

Yours says Whitill Asuka drops from Gol Dragon at a 1/5 rate. The Japanese site says it drops at about 20.3%. On my second run for Asuka (Which I still don't have) he dropped nothing. There's one obvious example of how your chart is incorrect. If you overlooked this, then please change it. If not, then are you saying that the difference between Gol Dragon's drop rate and a 100% drop rate is only enough to eliminate the .3%?

I know, but I don't know the boss drop-anything rate. I guess it's probably 80% but I don't know so I just put it down at 100% (which I know it's not) so adjust it yourself.
I don't understand what you're saying with the .3% thingy.

[heyf00L]

OK, here (http://trueconsoles.homestead.com/files/misc.html) is a javascript calculator I made. First put in the drop anything rate like 80 and then the rare item drop rate like from that japanese chart and you'll get the result in % and ratio form (rounded up).

I guess I'll adjust all boss drops to 80% drop-anything rate since that's probably what it is. If not at least it will be more accurate.

[heyf00L]

Alright, I submitted all the changes to IGN. Anymore complaints about it? I don't mind being corrected as long as I really was wrong.

[Hrith]

I don't mean to correct you since it is but my experience, but I'd say the Bosses' drop-anything rate is more like 50/60%, by no mean as high as 80%. Again only my experience.

[soulja2244]

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but why don't you put forward some proof? Some examples...something to substantiate your claims? Have you been looking around the files from the disc?

[heyf00L]

I have the item drop file, but nothing about drop-anything rates or rare enemy rates or anything like that. I got the drop-anything rates from PSO World, but they don't have bosses or the Control Tower guys. I found the Control Tower rates on a JP site.

Oh, and from personal experience I'd say 80% is really close. I've been TTFing for Red Slimes for a week now (over 100 runs now) and 1/5 seems about the rate that the boss drops nothing. Plus, 80% is the miniboss drop-anything rate.

[Hrith]

Mini bosses have 80% drop-anything rate ???!!!!!!!

Then I'm really outta luck as regards bosses and mini bosses ! >_<

[Firocket1690]

Olga Flow Parasitic Gene "Flow"
1 / 80 Parasitic Gene "Flow"
1 / 80 Parasitic Gene "Flow"
1 / 80 Parasitic Gene "Flow"
1 / 80 Parasitic Gene "Flow"
1 / 80 Parasitic Gene "Flow"
1 / 80 Parasitic Gene "Flow"
1 / 80 Parasitic Gene "Flow"
1 / 80 Parasitic Gene "Flow"
1 / 80 Parasitic Gene "Flow"
1 / 80 Parasitic Gene "Flow"

Psycho Wand
1 / 205

dammmmmmmmnnnnnnnn.......

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif
"Flow" was checked on all IDs, the PW was only Purplenum ...

[heyf00L]

Mini bosses have 80% drop-anything rate ???!!!!!!!

Then I'm really outta luck as regards bosses and mini bosses ! >_<

It seems that way when you're looking for something they drop. I was hunting Twin Blaze from Merikle for weeks and it seemed like most of the time they didn't drop anything. A couple times all three Merikle dropped nothing. o_0
But now that I tower carefree helping a friend hunt SJS, yeah, they usually do drop stuff. It's just when you're hunting stuff those times when they drop nothing just weigh in your mind more.

[Ketchup345]

On 2003-11-17 12:05, Kefka wrote:
I don't mean to correct you since it is but my experience, but I'd say the Bosses' drop-anything rate is more like 50/60%, by no mean as high as 80%. Again only my experience.


The Episode 2 VR bosses do have about a 80%+ drop anything rate. I know because I did several runs looking for a Double Saber from Barba Ray. After 14+ runs, he didn't drop anything only once.

[Hrith]

Ok, my bad luck here, then, for even if mesetas are included in the drop-anything rate, I get stuff from bosses only half of the time, bosses I kill the most are Gol, Sil, Gal & Vol.