Homosexuals and the people who hate them. [Archive]

Kasumi19

Dec 8, 2003, 08:25 PM

On 2003-12-08 16:40, Monomate wrote:
They feel as if gay people are out to rape them or molest them. It's very odd to me.

I really despise the people believe the misconception that a gay person will molest children. People that molest children are pedophiles not homesexuals. Pedophiles are sick bastards who get pleasure from sexual relations with children.

"You will come to my wedding right?" when it's legal). Anti-gay people are just as bad as sexists and racists. Is anyone else fed up with this hatred toward gays?

I agree I am also fed up with hatred towards gays and the disapproval of their lifestyle. They are people like everyone else. They have jobs, pay taxes, and contribute to society but can only get married in Vermont to my knowledge and most other states have already passed legislation that won't recognize that marriage.

It really makes me angry that the people in the United States descriminate against people based on sexual orientation.

Ness

Dec 8, 2003, 09:07 PM

On 2003-12-08 16:51, Monomate wrote:

On 2003-12-08 16:49, Ness wrote:

On 2003-12-08 16:40, Monomate wrote:
"I may not agree with the thing you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it!" (Voltaire).

That's my philosophy too. I agree with you on the homophobia stuff, though; there is way too much of it. Also, studies have shown that around 50% of all homophobes are really closet cases.

Really? that's hilarious!

Yeah, but it may not be exactly 50%, but I know it's close to half.

anwserman

Dec 8, 2003, 10:31 PM

Wow, there has been a whole lot of threads about homosexuality recently on the PSO World boards.

Though I still feel that people shouldn't think like "I don't approve of homosexual relationships" - I mean that it is great that you don't hate us because of what we are - but in reality, one should look at it instead of who is in the relationship, but what. If there is an honest to goodness love, trust and fondness in the relationship, gay or straight, I say go for it.

Because god knows there are relationships that aren't like that... or do you mean the "act of homosexuality" (e.g. sex), or do you approve of a relationship if it is nice and loving regardless if it is between the members of the same sex? I'm wondering about what your statement meant now.

And if you don't approve of the sex acts, I don't blame yea. I think some things straight couples do is disgusting (and some really neat actually!), and I could see how a straight person be disgusted with what a gay couple could do, too!

NKOTB

Dec 8, 2003, 10:51 PM

Homosexuality: PSOW's new FF7

anwserman

Dec 9, 2003, 12:54 AM

On 2003-12-08 19:51, NKOTB wrote:
Homosexuality: PSOW's new FF7

ROFL... MUHAHAHAHAHA!
Um.... Somebody other then Boy George will the Seprioth!... who, that is the question.

Inu_Ranma

Dec 9, 2003, 02:05 AM

I enjoy making fun of homophobes too much.

I think we need a national holiday (or at least a CA San Francisco Bay Area holiday) called 'Scare a homophobic person of the same sex by pinching his or her ass day.'

Ness

Dec 9, 2003, 06:38 AM

On 2003-12-08 23:05, Inu_Ranma wrote:
I enjoy making fun of homophobes too much.

I think we need a national holiday (or at least a CA San Francisco Bay Area holiday) called 'Scare a homophobic person of the same sex by pinching his or her ass day.'

I can see the all the lawsuits right now.

Superguppie

Dec 9, 2003, 09:44 AM

Agreeing with most things said here, I started wondering how many homophobics I really know. Judging from the amount of anti-gay words used, quite a few. However, I know most ppl using those to be not homophobic at all. Most anti-gay words are used in the same manner as hetero-sex cursing and swearing. In general many sex-related words are used to curse and swear. gay-sex words are no exception.

And on the gay-sex act, that happens in heterosexual relations too. Even thought there doesn't really seem to be a need...

starhealer

Dec 9, 2003, 09:48 AM

But it would be fun.

I got into debates with a freshman last year dealing with homosexual marriage and adoption of children. It was her belief that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to raise children because, and I paraphrase, "they cannot experience true love like heterosexual couples, so they won't be able to raise the children correctly." I just sort of blinked at her in astonishment for a moment, then asked "So the heterosexual couples that neglect their children and beat them are a better alternative to a caring, loving, doting homosexual couple that will raise those children well?"

After evading the question for a while, she eventually said something to the effect of "Well heterosexual couples are capable of having children and so are more likely to have true love, whereas homosexual couples cannot have children naturally and so can't ever truly experience true love."

I just kind of laughed at her naivete and went back to my work.

It bothers me, though, because that feeling is so prevalent in people--that homosexuals are less capable (or incapapble) of doing things that heterosexual people can do. Obviously, bearing children is an obstacle, but raising children? Since when did sleeping with the opposite sex constitute a good parenting prerequisite? And that homosexuals cannot experience true love? What the hell? Love is love and is not determined by sex, but by emotion, perception, personality and caring. Last I knew, ALL humans were capable of loving.

Love isn't an exclusive club.

...yeah, sorry. Bit of a rant, there. I'll give you your topic back, now.

anwserman

Dec 9, 2003, 01:33 PM

On 2003-12-09 06:48, starhealer wrote:
But it would be fun.

I got into debates with a freshman last year dealing with homosexual marriage and adoption of children. It was her belief that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to raise children because, and I paraphrase, "they cannot experience true love like heterosexual couples, so they won't be able to raise the children correctly." I just sort of blinked at her in astonishment for a moment, then asked "So the heterosexual couples that neglect their children and beat them are a better alternative to a caring, loving, doting homosexual couple that will raise those children well?"

After evading the question for a while, she eventually said something to the effect of "Well heterosexual couples are capable of having children and so are more likely to have true love, whereas homosexual couples cannot have children naturally and so can't ever truly experience true love."

I just kind of laughed at her naivete and went back to my work.

It bothers me, though, because that feeling is so prevalent in people--that homosexuals are less capable (or incapapble) of doing things that heterosexual people can do. Obviously, bearing children is an obstacle, but raising children? Since when did sleeping with the opposite sex constitute a good parenting prerequisite? And that homosexuals cannot experience true love? What the hell? Love is love and is not determined by sex, but by emotion, perception, personality and caring. Last I knew, ALL humans were capable of loving.

Love isn't an exclusive club.

...yeah, sorry. Bit of a rant, there. I'll give you your topic back, now.

Oh, with her logic a straight couple, whom one is infertile, shouldn't be allowed raise a child because they can't naturally have one? Thats great logic there.

starhealer

Dec 9, 2003, 01:41 PM

I actually brought that up and her (paraphrased) response was: "No, they could raise children because they are able to have kids (being a man and woman) it's just that they can't, whereas a homosexual couple couldn't regardless."

She bothered me a lot during the conversation, because none of her arguments made sense to me. It was also just sad that people go to such lengths to condemn homosexuality. *sigh* Sometimes I wonder why she chose to come to this college. Half the population is homosexual and I know they wouldn't take kindly to her telling them they can't experience "true love" or properly raise children.

She also insulted one of my friends who is gay by telling him that he can't believe in God due to his homosexuality, but that's a whole 'nother story that I'm not touching here.

anwserman

Dec 9, 2003, 02:03 PM

Ah... let me guess, she was religious? That could *possibly* explain her thoughts and their irrationality. I'm not saying I'm against religion, but the more people base their beliefs in religion, the more of a fool they can seemingly make themselves out to be by going to great legnths to defending their toughts - even if their statement contradicts one they might have said minutes earlier.

I bet she doesn't have any gay friends at all, or really know anyone personally who is gay. She is just viewing us as a 'group', without any contact within the group... contact that might have changed, or at least opened up, the scope of her views.

LamerPanda

Dec 9, 2003, 03:12 PM

She also insulted one of my friends who is gay by telling him that he can't believe in God due to his homosexuality

And what religion is this? If she's a Christian, I'd like to know why she's arguing against homosexuality so vehemently; most verses that say it's wrong are in Leviticus, and I haven't seen anyone sacrificing any sheep recently, hm? If you intend to follow the Bible to the letter, then do it, don't just pick and choose verses here and there to support your argument.

I hope you don't assume everyone with any faith condemns people to Hell? I have my beliefs, and one of them is that you shouldn't be condemned for something you can't even help, let alone something that isn't harmful.

MasterJoel

Dec 9, 2003, 04:20 PM

at the moment, the episcopal church (the american form of the church of england) is rather torn on the homosexuality issue (not to go off topic too much). recently, a openly gay minister was appointed a bishop, and there have been a lot of arguements about that. honestly, though, i think it will eventually be accepted, as 20 years ago, women weren't allowed to be priests either, and my church currently has a woman priest (priestess?), whom everyone adores.

my family is very homophobic at times. i swear, my youngest sister thinks its a disease you can catch. on the flip side, i actually think she might be one of those "closet cases" that ness was mentioning. sooner or later, i think that society as a whole will change their mind about this issue, because you see an obvious change in mentality amongst many more people than there used to be. if this board is any indication to society, as soon as the baby boomers die off (no offense, mom), there will be a new age of acceptance that people will teach their children. i sure hope so.

Monomate

Dec 9, 2003, 05:32 PM

On 2003-12-08 19:31, anwserman wrote:
Wow, there has been a whole lot of threads about homosexuality recently on the PSO World boards.

Well this one was inspired by a few I had seen recently, and something that I felt I needed to say, as in the past I have seen many many edited posts because people used the word 'gay' as a derogatory term.

Because god knows there are relationships that aren't like that... or do you mean the "act of homosexuality" (e.g. sex), or do you approve of a relationship if it is nice and loving regardless if it is between the members of the same sex? I'm wondering about what your statement meant now.

Ah...I meant the actual sexual acts. It's unnatural to me (but I find a lot of things that straight people do unnatural). But if it's a real relationship, then it's really no different from anyone else.

And if you don't approve of the sex acts, I don't blame yea. I think some things straight couples do is disgusting (and some really neat actually!), and I could see how a straight person be disgusted with what a gay couple could do, too!

I concur. I'm really not one for unnatural sex...

StrongBad

Dec 9, 2003, 05:39 PM

90% of Homophobes turn out gay.
Forgot where I heard that from.

Monomate

Dec 9, 2003, 05:44 PM

On 2003-12-09 11:03, anwserman wrote:

I bet she doesn't have any gay friends at all, or really know anyone personally who is gay. She is just viewing us as a 'group', without any contact within the group... contact that might have changed, or at least opened up, the scope of her views.

Like me. I was very homophobic and anti-gay in the beginning. Then, I suddenly discovered that a lot of my friends were gay, and I knew them well. They were really good people. It was then that I realized that I was just a biased fucker...three years ago I would have flamed the writer of this thread, now, I'm the writer of this thread. It's kinda scary seeing how much I've changed...

Monomate

Dec 9, 2003, 05:55 PM

On 2003-12-09 13:20, MasterJoel wrote:
at the moment, the episcopal church (the american form of the church of england) is rather torn on the homosexuality issue (not to go off topic too much). recently, a openly gay minister was appointed a bishop, and there have been a lot of arguements about that. honestly, though, i think it will eventually be accepted, as 20 years ago, women weren't allowed to be priests either, and my church currently has a woman priest (priestess?), whom everyone adores.

Well, there's a major problem there. If the bishop is ordained, the Anglican church will split from the American Episcopal Church, the African Methodist Episcopal Church will split from the American Episcopal Church, and the South American Episcopal Church will split from the American Episcopal Church, and they will not recognize him as bishop. Also, just a prediction, the church in the South, will split from the North, because, we Southerners are kind of Closed Minded and Stubborn. Also, because of my father's views, we will probably become agnostics...

According to my father, there are only two things that really piss God off, worshipping other gods, and/or idols, and unnatural sex. I've never made it past Genesis in the Bible so I wouldn't know...but it does sorta explain the whole extreme homophobia of Christians...

KaFKa

Dec 9, 2003, 06:04 PM

i have many views on religion, but i do think that anybody that uses religion to back their statements (within reason) has no clue what their talking about.

Anubis_

Dec 9, 2003, 06:10 PM

I don't agree with Homosexuality, but I have a LOT of gay friends, and I always stick up for my friends.

lol...

Believe it or not,, I just gained mad respect for you for what u just said... I totaly applaud the fact that you admitted to having homosexual friends and that you stick up for them even though your not homosexual yourself.. Not many guys would admitt to having homosexaul friends from fear of no longer looking masculine to their peers..

I dont believe in homophobia either.. Im a very religious person, and homosexuality and the Baptist Religion dont exactly walk hand in hand.. But i dont think chritisising them is the way to go either..

It reminds me of the part in Bruce Almighty, When Jim Cary Asks Morgar Freeman, how do you get some one to love you without afecting free will.. and Morgaon Freeman says You Can't...

My point is, I totaly agree with your perspective Mon.. True you may not believe in what their doing, but acting as if they had no other option but to comply with your way of life isn't the way to go either.

Firocket1690

Dec 9, 2003, 09:19 PM

On 2003-12-09 14:39, StrongBad wrote:
90% of Homophobes turn out gay.
Forgot where I heard that from.

voice inside your head ? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

NoxiousOne

Dec 9, 2003, 09:55 PM

I think the biggest fator in homophobia is tradition, of which a major part is religion. Generations of people were brought up to believe that homosexuals and their lifestyles were somehow evil and sadistic. This kind of tradition is hard to break. The second biggest factor IMO is that most people don't KNOW any gay people. It's very difficult to hate a person once you find out how incredibly caring, open, and sensitive they are. In fact, many of the nicest people I've ever met were homosexuals. My aunt is a lesbian and I love her just as much as I would were she straight. I myself am not gay, but I would guess about a third of my friends are (even if they would never admit it). I treat them no differently than my friends who are straight. Yet some people believe that gays and lesbians are unworthy of respect or equality. I've seen far more unsuccessful straight marriages than gay "marriages", as well. Maybe we could learn a thing or two about tolerance and loving from the gay community.

Nai_Calus

Dec 9, 2003, 11:35 PM

A great many people get their views on homosexuals and transsexuals from the media, who love anything tawdry. Thus you never see the normal, loving couple on the news. No, you see the pride parades and the more ...interesting... members of the community, who wander around in bondage gear and have a billion piercings and the like.

Personally, I think anal sex is degrading and gross. Then again, I think blowjobs are degrading and gross, so what the hell do I know?

Love is love. Doesn't matter who it's between. As long as two people love eachother and want to be together, that should be the only thing that matters. But unfortunately, it isn't.

starhealer

Dec 10, 2003, 01:03 PM

My uncle tried marriage out for quite a few years, even had two children, before he realised he just couldn't keep living a straight life. He knew he was gay before he married my aunt, but society as it was back then...*shrug* Now he has the absolute sweetest boyfriend (who has white hair the bastard...i want white hair...) and they always come to family functions together. My cousin is currently out in California, where she moved to be with her girlfriend. Several of my friends are openly gay and I love them as much as anyone else.

Hell, I've been called a lesbian, even though I'm straight as an arrow.

The religion thing, though. Yes, the girl was Catholic, but I didn't want to bring that up for fear of starting arguments. I myself am nondemoninational, but, to me, God loves us all, regardless of who we sleep with at night. I can't contemplate a God who would be so fickle as to disown His own children because of something like sexuality. What about the whole "unconditional love" that everyone always talks about?

I don't know. Faith and religion are two different things. I very strongly believe in God, but I don't believe faith is determined by what church you go to or which Bible you read from. Therefore, I don't believe that love is determined by who you kiss and call lover, either.

...Okay, I'm walking on thin ground here. Sorry.

starhealer

Dec 10, 2003, 01:07 PM

...frigging double posts need to die...

[ This Message was edited by: starhealer on 2003-12-10 11:45 ]

[ This Message was edited by: starhealer on 2003-12-10 11:45 ]

anwserman

Dec 10, 2003, 01:21 PM

I didn't want to start a big argument over religion, thats why I worded my post carefully to make sure I didn't make assuptions to a whole group (I did make an assumption about that girl in particular), but the way I wrote it, I left open the possibility that a person who is highly religious could possibly make a fool out of themselves (and not will make a fool out of themselves) when defending their beliefs.

People who are religious are fine, it is just those who use religion to cover for their bias and discriminating beliefs, saying they're doing what god would want them to do.

KaFKa

Dec 10, 2003, 01:21 PM

eww, double post...

LamerPanda

Dec 10, 2003, 03:47 PM

There is nothing wrong with religion. There is something wrong with using religion to support hateful views. =/

I don't know. Faith and religion are two different things. I very strongly believe in God, but I don't believe faith is determined by what church you go to or which Bible you read from.

I know this is off topic, but I'd have to agree with that. A lot of people don't see me as religious because I don't go to church, but there's 3 reasons for that:

#1: I don't completely agree with any church.
#2: I don't see why God would want His church divided up into a bunch of different denominations anyway.
#3: The vast majority of denominations have some hateful principles.

People aren't going to get along and they're going to interpret things differently, I accept that. Still, I don't think *any* church should have the right to condemn people.

Edit: Whoops, 3, not 2. I started out with 2, forgot to change that...

[ This Message was edited by: LamerPanda on 2003-12-10 17:54 ]

Monomate

Dec 10, 2003, 08:00 PM

On 2003-12-10 10:21, anwserman wrote:
I didn't want to start a big argument over religion, thats why I worded my post carefully to make sure I didn't make assuptions to a whole group (I did make an assumption about that girl in particular), but the way I wrote it, I left open the possibility that a person who is highly religious could possibly make a fool out of themselves (and not will make a fool out of themselves) when defending their beliefs.

People who are religious are fine, it is just those who use religion to cover for their bias and discriminating beliefs, saying they're doing what god would want them to do.

same deal here...i personally am against all forms of organized religion (like the philosophes of the Enlightenment), religion isn't bad, but organized religions (like the different sects of the christian church) tend to really cause problems. Basically just read Voltaire and you'll see what I mean.

On 2003-12-10 12:47, LamerPanda wrote:
There is nothing wrong with religion. There is something wrong with using religion to support hateful views. =/

I don't know. Faith and religion are two different things. I very strongly believe in God, but I don't believe faith is determined by what church you go to or which Bible you read from.

I know this is off topic, but I'd have to agree with that. A lot of people don't see me as religious because I don't go to church, but there's 2 reasons for that:

#1: I don't completely agree with any church.
#2: I don't see why God would want His church divided up into a bunch of different denominations anyway.
#3: The vast majority of denominations have some hateful principles.

People aren't going to get along and they're going to interpret things differently, I accept that. Still, I don't think *any* church should have the right to condemn people.

I love you...

That was perfect.

However...*wishes to avoid arguments on religion*

[ This Message was edited by: Monomate on 2003-12-10 17:05 ]

LamerPanda

Dec 10, 2003, 08:52 PM

I don't really want to start an argument either. It wouldn't accomplish anything because people are stubborn and stick with what they believe in. I don't have the right to judge anyone else's faith, either. Besides, as innocent as any discussion of religion may start out, it will generally escalate into something of a forum holy war, something I'd rather not get involved in.

I just mostly wanted to point out that hate is wrong, no matter what the basis.

Uncle_bob

Dec 10, 2003, 09:28 PM

DSFAdfasdfdfsADFASDfasdf to the fifth. Ok, had to get that out of the way.

ANYWAY! Why is it that everyone that doesn't agree with homosexuality is ALWAYS tagged as a "narrow-minded Christian homophobe"?

You know, Uncle doesn't support homosexuality, he finds it to be rather disgusting actually. But he doesn't go around spreading hate and whatnot. He's held conversations with and has had gay and bisexual friends, but that doesn't mean he supports what they do. You see? After all, his beliefs are just "another lifestyle", can you live with that? ;o

Not everyone that dissapproves of homosexuality is a "narrow-minded homophobe". If you (many homosexuals and supporters of them) complain about "homophobes" stereotyping you, don't stereotype them back. Just ignore them your best. Stereotyping them and harassing them back will just make things worse and everyone gets pissed off.

Uncle hopes he made some sense in this, and no harm is intended. Voip.

[ This Message was edited by: Uncle_bob on 2003-12-10 18:29 ]

Superguppie

Dec 11, 2003, 04:44 AM

On 2003-12-10 18:28, Uncle_bob wrote:
ANYWAY! Why is it that everyone that doesn't agree with homosexuality is ALWAYS tagged as a "narrow-minded Christian homophobe"?

Often they are. However, not always. You should see what some of the (islamic) imams preach in the mosque. We have (at least) one here (in the Netherlands) that doesn't know the difference between homosexuals and childmolesters and calls them less than dogs. And the people listening to them bash gays....

LamerPanda

Dec 11, 2003, 08:19 AM

ANYWAY! Why is it that everyone that doesn't agree with homosexuality is ALWAYS tagged as a "narrow-minded Christian homophobe"?

No one said that specifically.

We're not stereotyping you, and if you hate the actions and not the people, it's an entirely different thing. OK?

starhealer

Dec 11, 2003, 10:03 AM

The word "homophobe" itself means "afraid of homosexuals." It's usually used to denote those that hate or bash gays. If you simply don't agree with that lifestyle and don't like homosexuality, then you aren't classified as a "homophobe." But people use the word for anyone that's against gay and lesbian relationships, whether or not they hate.

If you don't approve of it, you don't approve of it and that's okay by me. You are quite right--we ALL have the right to hold our own opinion. My mother and father don't approve of it, either, but we respect each other's attitudes toward the subject.

And just for the hell of it...

I'm wearing my "Hugs not Hate" t-shirt that I got when my college put on The Laramie Project. It's such a wonderful message, ne?

Soukosa

Dec 11, 2003, 05:24 PM

One thing that really bothers me is how people tend to refer to homosexuals by their "life style." To me, that makes it seem as if they see homosexuals as some sort of foreign culture or something and that they are completely different from hets and such. Then in a different light, it makes it look as though homosexuals have choosen to be attracted to the same sex and that it's purely unnatural, when it's as natural for them as it is for a het to be attracted to the opposite sex and a bi to be attracted to both.

I get kind of a kick out of how certain scientists and the like look at ancient civilaizations as inferior to the modern ones. The thing of it is, is that many ancient cultures where just fine with those that weren't attracted to the opposite sex like the "vast majority" are. If you ask me, the modern world seems to be inferior to them in ways like that.

It was also talked about some feel that anal sex is disgusting and I've come across some people that think homosexuality is simply sick because they feel that way. But, who said that all homosexuals engage in that? Last I checked, a couple is incapable of doing that without a male, so how would a lesbian couple be able to do it? Plus, you have to take into account the number of het couples that do that. Quite a lot of them do it that way, to my knowledge. Then, if you ask me, I find all forms of sexual intercourse to be disgusting, yet you don't see me going around hating people since they engage in it. I could really care less how people spend their love lives. That is simply none of my business and it doesn't affect my life, so it shouldn't really affect any other's lives either.

Okay, I'm done with semily-random rant now. Enjoy and be confused by its randomness.

[ This Message was edited by: Sounomi on 2003-12-11 14:47 ]

dark_agenda

Dec 11, 2003, 06:09 PM

On 2003-12-11 14:24, Sounomi wrote:
It was also talked about some feel that anal sex is disgusting and I've come across some people that think homosexuality is simply sick because they feel that way. But, who said that all homosexuals engage in that? Last I checked, a couple is incapable of doing that without a male, so how would a lesbian couple be able to do it?

One hyphenated word for you: Strap-On

I meant that jokingly of course, but it is possible for lesbians to engage in anal sex. The only thing, of course, is that only one of them will be getting any physical pleasure out of it.

Anywho, I apologize for that. My stand on homosexuality is this: There's nothing at all wrong with it. If emotions are there, you have the right to act upon them.

I too am a nondenominational person and, all you christians out there please do not take this the wrong way, a lot of christians have this attitude about them that everyone should live their life according to what the bible says... when in actuality they do not. As stated before they simply choose what parts of the bible they wish to believe in. I'm not saying this to offend anyone, as I am using my own home city as the basis of this conclusion. That's my two and a half cents on the topic http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Monomate

Dec 11, 2003, 06:13 PM

On 2003-12-11 07:03, starhealer wrote:
The word "homophobe" itself means "afraid of homosexuals." It's usually used to denote those that hate or bash gays. If you simply don't agree with that lifestyle and don't like homosexuality, then you aren't classified as a "homophobe." But people use the word for anyone that's against gay and lesbian relationships, whether or not they hate.

Actually, when I wrote Homophobe I meant people who hate gays, not people who just don't agree with homosexuality. Just making that clear.

starhealer

Dec 12, 2003, 10:28 AM

Kay, my bad. Hope I didn't offend.

Morfos

Dec 13, 2003, 01:15 PM

I am also offended people people bashing gays. It is hateful and bigoted. There is nothing wrong with being gay, there are plenty of good gay people out there, as well as bad ones. So what it if its gross to you?, It isn't gross to them, and they don't do it to be gross. I find it morally wrong to oppose gay marriage. Does that mean I hate people that believe gays shouldn't get married? No, but I will strongly disagree with them. Gay people have the right to get married just like anybody else, just like whites and blacks deserve to marry eachother if they truely love eachoter. If somebody were to oppose, interacial marriage, they would be considered bigots. Oppossing gay marriage is offensive to gays, what if they love eachother? Should they have to suffer just because you don't like it?

What I find stupid is how the Religious Right loves to state that "God hates fags!" Isn't God supposed to be all loving? If God is all loving, then he does not hate homosexuals. And also, why should homosexuals be forced to be part with eachother just because of your religion? That is unfair that we(as our government) force gays to not get married just to please certain branches of Christianity. Oh just to tell you, not all Christians oppose gay marriage. So don't even bring up "well Christians are the majority and they think its wrong, therefor they can't get married."

PS: I have a favor to ask you all. I know that the vast majority of people on this forum blindly hate me, but I am asking if you can ignore your hatred towards me for this topic.

Monomate

Dec 13, 2003, 02:27 PM

On 2003-12-13 10:15, Morfos wrote:
I am also offended people people bashing gays. It is hateful and bigoted. There is nothing wrong with being gay, there are plenty of good gay people out there, as well as bad ones. So what it if its gross to you?, It isn't gross to them, and they don't do it to be gross. I find it morally wrong to oppose gay marriage. Does that mean I hate people that believe gays shouldn't get married? No, but I will strongly disagree with them. Gay people have the right to get married just like anybody else, just like whites and blacks deserve to marry eachother if they truely love eachoter. If somebody were to oppose, interacial marriage, they would be considered bigots. Oppossing gay marriage is offensive to gays, what if they love eachother? Should they have to suffer just because you don't like it?

What I find stupid is how the Religious Right loves to state that "God hates fags!" Isn't God supposed to be all loving? If God is all loving, then he does not hate homosexuals. And also, why should homosexuals be forced to be part with eachother just because of your religion? That is unfair that we(as our government) force gays to not get married just to please certain branches of Christianity. Oh just to tell you, not all Christians oppose gay marriage. So don't even bring up "well Christians are the majority and they think its wrong, therefor they can't get married."

PS: I have a favor to ask you all. I know that the vast majority of people on this forum blindly hate me, but I am asking if you can ignore your hatred towards me for this topic.

That was the point of this thread...

*steps out of character and out of topic*
Why do people hate you...? is there something you want to tell Doctor Phil? tell me about your childhood...have you tried my diet plan? do you watch my show?

*steps back into character*
ya...sorry...

Anyway, if you'll read all the posts in this thread you'll see that most everyone agrees with you.

navci

Dec 13, 2003, 02:43 PM

I get kind of a kick out of how certain scientists and the like look at ancient civilaizations as inferior to the modern ones. The thing of it is, is that many ancient cultures where just fine with those that weren't attracted to the opposite sex like the "vast majority" are. If you ask me, the modern world seems to be inferior to them in ways like that.

Well said.
I do tend to think as we get more "modern" so to speak, all we have been doing is make up arbitary rules as to what is acceptable and what isn't. In a way, we just restrict our lifes more and more so as we become more "civilized". =P Makes no sense at all.

Anyhoo. I'd say something about the topic, however, I don't think I have anything to add. Most people have been voicing good opinions here. Kudos to you all. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

anwserman

Dec 13, 2003, 02:46 PM

Religion is OK, but anybody who says that they're doing what God wants them to do - God's work - should be shot. OK, not all instances are bad and the people should be awarded then (Mother Teresa), but the abortion-doctor shootings, intolerance towards gay and interracial marriage, etc. etc. Basically, anybody who comits a crime or discriminates against a person or a group and says he is following through God's will should be shot.

Uncle_bob

Dec 13, 2003, 03:59 PM

I am also offended people people bashing gays.

Uncle is offended by people (you) bashing Conservatives all the time then whining about tollerance.

It is hateful and bigoted.

As are you.

There is nothing wrong with being gay,

Opinion. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

there are plenty of good gay people out there, as well as bad ones.

There are plenty of good Conservatives too, why bash them?

So what it if its gross to you?, It isn't gross to them, and they don't do it to be gross.

Ok, go find a gay porn/sex video and tell Uncle it's not the least bit disgusting. :B

I find it morally wrong to oppose gay marriage.

Go tell that to Congress and see if that'll change anything.

Does that mean I hate people that believe gays shouldn't get married?

Yes.

No, but I will strongly disagree with them. Gay people have the right to get married just like anybody else, just like whites and blacks deserve to marry eachother if they truely love eachoter.

And some people would truely love to put a couple rounds into your skull, does that justify it? Nope.

Oppossing gay marriage is offensive to gays

You're offensive to Uncle.

what if they love eachother? Should they have to suffer just because you don't like it?

It's not what "we" want, it's what Congress wants. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

What I find stupid is how the Religious Right loves to state that "God hates fags!"

Who? Anyway, anyone saying that God (assuming you're referring to the Christian God) hates homosexuals has no true understanding of Christianity and God.

Isn't God supposed to be all loving?

Yup.

If God is all loving, then he does not hate homosexuals.

Ditto.

And also, why should homosexuals be forced to be part with eachother just because of your religion?

Ah, there you go with stereotyping again, idiot. Not all people opposed to gay marriages are white male Christians.

That is unfair that we(as our government) force gays to not get married just to please certain branches of Christianity.

Life isn't fair, fuzzy. And banning gay marriages isn't just to "please certain branches of Christianity", there you go with stereotyping again.

Oh just to tell you, not all Christians oppose gay marriage. So don't even bring up "well Christians are the majority and they think its wrong, therefor they can't get married."

Wtf, you just contradicted yourself...ungh. And just because "Christians" are the majority doesn't mean that's true. A lot of people will claim to be Christians, and a lot of those people aren't Christians.

PS: I have a favor to ask you all. I know that the vast majority of people on this forum blindly hate me, but I am asking if you can ignore your hatred towards me for this topic.

No.

Monomate

Dec 13, 2003, 04:08 PM

wow...that was like...so...wow...

Thank you Uncle...that was uh...angry...and...uh...ranting...wow...thank you...

Inu_Ranma

Dec 13, 2003, 04:08 PM

That was mostly uncalled for, 'Uncle,' as there was really no attack merited there, but also somewhat sensible in many places.

For the record, yes, it really only matters what Congress and the Supreme Court think on this issue, but the problem is that the members Congress are SUPPOSED to vote in consideration of their consciences and the consciences of their constituencies, regardless of religion.

Granted, many Congressmembers may think that it is their conscience to outlaw gay marraige.

The problem here is not that, though, it is that marraige has evolved from a religious term to a legal term. The choice of whether to allow a couple religious marraige, in my opinion, should lie with the church. The choice of whether to allow a couple LEGAL marraige, should lie in the couple, and any and every couple (no matter who is in that couple, provided they are not already married) that is seeking a legal marraige should do so at the local city hall in a process that is completely seperate from a church marraige. This would eliminate the problem entirely, I think. That is also, of course, in a perfect world. The United States is far from a perfect country (though it is a great nation), though, so I do not foresee this solution coming into being. It will be interesting to see what happens, though.

Uncle_bob

Dec 13, 2003, 04:10 PM

That was mostly uncalled for, 'Uncle,' as there was really no attack merited there, but also somewhat sensible in many places.

Well, if you were a conservative (maybe you are? dunno) and you noticed how much shit Morphos posts, you'd get mad too.

Inu_Ranma

Dec 13, 2003, 04:12 PM

Regardless...and this is completely aside from my political ideology, this isn't the place for an attack. If you want to attack Morphos, attack him in a thread where he's doing something you wish to attack. What you basically did was start a personal attack on him, and then proceed to mostly agree with him.

Uncle_bob

Dec 13, 2003, 04:14 PM

Besides, Uncle only attacked her once. He called her an "idiot".

Monomate

Dec 13, 2003, 04:15 PM

On 2003-12-08 21:54, anwserman wrote:

On 2003-12-08 19:51, NKOTB wrote:
Homosexuality: PSOW's new FF7

ROFL... MUHAHAHAHAHA!
Um.... Somebody other then Boy George will the Seprioth!... who, that is the question.

Elton John...

Inu_Ranma

Dec 13, 2003, 04:15 PM

Woops! Morphos is a her!? Gack!

Sorry, Morph.

Inu_Ranma

Dec 13, 2003, 04:16 PM

Is Elton John gay? Wow...I don't pay enough attention.

Monomate

Dec 13, 2003, 04:18 PM

On 2003-12-13 13:16, Inu_Ranma wrote:
Is Elton John gay? Wow...I don't pay enough attention.

Yeah...it took me a long time to figure that out too...lol

navci

Dec 13, 2003, 04:19 PM

Ok, go find a gay porn/sex video and tell Uncle it's not the least bit disgusting. :B

It IS a matter of opinion tho.
I find most porn videos disgusting. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Morfos

Dec 13, 2003, 04:26 PM

Uncle is offended by people (you) bashing Conservatives all the time then whining about tollerance.

I havn't mensioned "Conservatives" once in my post. So that is irrelevent, stop switches subjects, if you want to do that, make your own topic about how I bash Conservatives, but don't spoil this topic, which is where everybody agrees with me except for you.

As are you.

Nope

Opinion.

What do gays do that cause harm anyway?

There are plenty of good Conservatives too, why bash them?

This is not about Conservatives, it is about Homosexuals.

Ok, go find a gay porn/sex video and tell Uncle it's not the least bit disgusting.

I don't like porn period, but Im not stating that it should be banned, its 1st Amendment rights. And why should homosexuals be forbidon to be with eachother just because others find it gross, who cares what they think?

Go tell that to Congress and see if that'll change anything.

That change is inevetible(sp?), it will happen someday.

Yes.

No

And some people would truely love to put a couple rounds into your skull, does that justify it?

Im sure rednecks would love to do that. And don't go saying I called you a redneck, because I didn't.

You're offensive to Uncle.

You might as well make that everybody else who is posting, because none of us hate gay people the way some morons do. And don't go stating I called you a moron or stated that you hate gays either, because I am not saying that.

It's not what "we" want, it's what Congress wants

So gays who love eachother should be forced to suffer without eachother because a few old rich white guys don't want them to get married?

Who? Anyway, anyone saying that God (assuming you're referring to the Christian God) hates homosexuals has no true understanding of Christianity and God.

And they are the people you are agreeing with.

Ah, there you go with stereotyping again, idiot. Not all people opposed to gay marriages are white male Christians.

Putting words in my mouth, I never said that only white male Christians oppose gay marriages.

Life isn't fair, fuzzy. And banning gay marriages isn't just to "please certain branches of Christianity", there you go with stereotyping again.

It is banned so people who find it gross and the "Religious Right" will be satisfied. Besides, why should the government be given the right to tell people that they cannot be married, that is disguisting, to allow a government to make such decisions.

Wtf, you just contradicted yourself

No I didn't, you missunderstood me.

And just because "Christians" are the majority doesn't mean that's true. A lot of people will claim to be Christians, and a lot of those people aren't Christians.

I know the people who truely aren't. The ones who are not true Christians are the ones who state garbage like "God helps those who help themselves." Believe it or not, they are the same people who normallyoppose gay rights.

PS:Just to let you know, I didn't flame once even though I was flammed.

Black000Moon

Dec 13, 2003, 04:46 PM

hell this thread is confusing same with conservatives......(what ever that means big word)....

Sord

Dec 13, 2003, 05:49 PM

I say let gays and lesbians be. Hell, it would probably do the world good. Let thetm marry if they want. I mean about 50% of all marages end in divorce, and about another 40% stay together for financial reasons. If gays and lesbians where excepted, i think there would be a lot more to enjoy in this world. Heck, it was the homosexuals in the 70's that first really started to experiment. Without them their wouldn't be very many sex toys. If gays and lesbians are excepted our sexual technology will probably grow. As for religion stuff, I was Christian but now i'm atheist (even though my parents don't like it) I stick to my own philosophies. That's why I study science. It has a firmer stand then religion. And there is nothing in science that says gays and lesbians are wrong.

Uncle_bob

Dec 13, 2003, 06:39 PM

I havn't mensioned "Conservatives" once in my post. So that is irrelevent, stop switches subjects, if you want to do that, make your own topic about how I bash Conservatives, but don't spoil this topic, which is where everybody agrees with me except for you.

First, it's spelled "mentioned". Secondly, Uncle knows you haven't mentioned conservatives but he used that as an example to show how ironic things are. And if Uncle wants to post in this topic, he can. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

As are you.

Nope

Nope? You aren't Uncle are you? He didn't think so, don't act like you know how he feels.

Opinion.

What do gays do that cause harm anyway?

You should be able to figure that out for yourself. :/

Ok, go find a gay porn/sex video and tell Uncle it's not the least bit disgusting.

I don't like porn period, but Im not stating that it should be banned, its 1st Amendment rights.

But you didn't do what Uncle asked for you to do. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And why should homosexuals be forbidon to be with eachother just because others find it gross, who cares what they think?

It's spelled "forbidden". Anyway, what they do is morally wrong. (Oh God, Uncle is gonna regret that.)And as for who cares what "they" think. Well, apparently you, homosexuals, and other gay-rights supporters seem to be pretty upset about it. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Go tell that to Congress and see if that'll change anything.

That change is inevetible(sp?), it will happen someday.

Whoa, no shit. Anyone can look at this country and see that it's going down-hill. Murder will probably be legal in a few years too. Anyway, since it's inevetible, why complain about it?

No

Ja.

And some people would truely love to put a couple rounds into your skull, does that justify it?

Im sure rednecks would love to do that. And don't go saying I called you a redneck, because I didn't.

It's probably more than just "rednecks" that would love to do that.

You're offensive to Uncle.

You might as well make that everybody else who is posting, because none of us hate gay people the way some morons do. And don't go stating I called you a moron or stated that you hate gays either, because I am not saying that.

Alright, you know what? YOU ALL OFFEND ME! Ok, happy Morphy-poo? :B

It's not what "we" want, it's what Congress wants

So gays who love eachother should be forced to suffer without eachother because a few old rich white guys don't want them to get married?

Wait, do you want Uncle's opinion, or do you want him to say what you want to hear? And stop with the stereotyping, not all senators are "old rich white guys". http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Who? Anyway, anyone saying that God (assuming you're referring to the Christian God) hates homosexuals has no true understanding of Christianity and God.

And they are the people you are agreeing with.

Whoa whoa whoa...Uncle never said that he aggrees with people that say God hates homosexuals.

Ah, there you go with stereotyping again, idiot. Not all people opposed to gay marriages are white male Christians.

Putting words in my mouth, I never said that only white male Christians oppose gay marriages.

then don't use them as an example so often.

It is banned so people who find it gross and the "Religious Right" will be satisfied.

Once again, what the hell is the "Religious Right"?

Besides, why should the government be given the right to tell people that they cannot be married, that is disguisting, to allow a government to make such decisions.

Because that's what congress does, they make laws. Don't you pay attention in school?

Wtf, you just contradicted yourself

No I didn't, you missunderstood me.

Right..

PS:Just to let you know, I didn't flame once even though I was flammed.

You've flamed Uncle indirectly on previous occasions.

Bradicus

Dec 13, 2003, 07:18 PM

uncle said:
Ok, go find a gay porn/sex video and tell Uncle it's not the least bit disgusting. :B

He also said:
Opinion. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
granted, i would find it gross too... but i couldn't resist http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

No, but I will strongly disagree with them. Gay people have the right to get married just like anybody else, just like whites and blacks deserve to marry eachother if they truely love eachoter.

And some people would truely love to put a couple rounds into your skull, does that justify it? Nope.

.... It kinda sounds like you're comparing homosexuality to murder... I am aware that you are just exadurating to make a point, but that is a little extreme.

Oh well, we all have our own positions on contraversial issues like this. Personally, I try not to judge people on who they are attracted to.

Black000Moon

Dec 13, 2003, 09:12 PM

save the gays! (not the whales)

OniTatsujin

Dec 13, 2003, 09:35 PM

people are like magnets, opposites attract, but i guess some magnets are broken...

anwserman

Dec 13, 2003, 09:42 PM

On 2003-12-13 18:35, OniTatsujin wrote:
people are like magnets, opposites attract, but i guess some magnets are broken...

Dude, you cannot even start to compare love to magnets... because unlike magnets (which are a simple Positive/Negative charge), love is much much much more complicated then a simple attraction between two pieces of metal. Love cannot be boiled down to a comparison between two magnets.

Monomate

Dec 13, 2003, 10:07 PM

On 2003-12-13 14:49, Sord wrote:
That's why I study science. It has a firmer stand then religion. And there is nothing in science that says gays and lesbians are wrong.

wellywellywellywell...

there are the laws of nature (male goes with female to produce happy little offsprings)...which only apply to the sex acts of homosexuality...but, so far as i'm concerned love is beyond the bounds of science, and the love of another of the same sex is not wrong so far as science is concerned...

Monomate

Dec 13, 2003, 10:09 PM

Uncle, Morphos, do not even think to turn this into a political argument! This is strictly about homosexuality, don't bother with politics...go elsewhere to do that.

ABDUR101

Dec 13, 2003, 10:12 PM

On 2003-12-13 19:07, Monomate wrote:
there are the laws of nature (male goes with female to produce happy little offsprings)...which only apply to the sex acts of homosexuality...

Actually, many animals have shown to perform homosexual acts as well. So it does happen in nature too.

anwserman

Dec 13, 2003, 10:15 PM

Monomate

Dec 13, 2003, 10:17 PM

On 2003-12-13 19:12, ABDUR101 wrote:

On 2003-12-13 19:07, Monomate wrote:
there are the laws of nature (male goes with female to produce happy little offsprings)...which only apply to the sex acts of homosexuality...

Actually, many animals have shown to perform homosexual acts as well. So it does happen in nature too.

that reminds me of something i'd forgotten about...apparently they've discovered a gene in fruit bats that makes them gay at certain temperatures...

and hamsters under severe overpopulation and stress will become cannibalistic and homosexual...(hamsters scare me...)

so yeah...you're right...i just didn't think...

edit: i said laws of nature, and there are always exceptions to the rule, and of course those who break the law...

[ This Message was edited by: Monomate on 2003-12-13 19:19 ]

Morfos

Dec 14, 2003, 12:52 AM

what they do is morally wrong.

In your opinion, why should they be forced to suffer just because you and other extremists don't like it? If you don't like gays, don't sleep with them. If you don't agree with gay marriage, then don't marry a homosexual. Don't enforce your beliefs on other people, they have rights too. Why should the government have the right to enforce their sexual beliefs on others?

Inu_Ranma

Dec 14, 2003, 04:01 AM

On an interesting side note, nature has little bearing on this whole argument. It's been possible for over a decade now for two women to have a child not only without sex, but without a MAN. The only proviso is that they must give birth, and that they must give birth to a genetic copy of another woman. Interesting, it is. A woman in the UK gave birth to a genetic copy of ten year old son about five years ago, and so she has twins who are many years apart. Veeery interesting.

Uncle_bob

Dec 14, 2003, 11:07 AM

what they do is morally wrong.

In your opinion, why should they be forced to suffer just because you and other extremists don't like it?

Haha, Uncle will most likely get banned if he says why. Want him to tell you in a PM? And why is he an extremist? It's not like he's strapping bombs to his chest and running into gay parades as a suicide bomber.

If you don't like gays, don't sleep with them. If you don't agree with gay marriage, then don't marry a homosexual.

Naww...really? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Don't enforce your beliefs on other people,

Oh God, its so ironic hearing that from you.

they have rights too.

Not the right to get married, it seems. ;o

Why should the government have the right to enforce their sexual beliefs on others?

They're not enforcing their sexual beliefs, they're just saying they can't get married. :B
Besides, aren't they free to marry as they please in Maryland or something? Why don't you go there and have coffee with some gay people and you should be happy.

Not replying in this anymore, PM Uncle if you still want to talk.

Ness

Dec 14, 2003, 11:55 AM

On 2003-12-13 19:17, Monomate wrote:

edit: i said laws of nature, and there are always exceptions to the rule, and of course those who break the law...

[ This Message was edited by: Monomate on 2003-12-13 19:19 ]

Technically, it's not a law of nature if it can be broken. Laws of nature are not like legal laws. I think that gays should be allowed to marry.

Morfos

Dec 14, 2003, 09:04 PM

People think gays getting married is so horrible, yet does anybody get hurt by this? Homosexuals are not evil, and bigots need to get over that. Fortunately, most of the Western World believes in gay rights. Actually, even in America, most people believe in gay rights, not only that but the majority of Americans believe that businesses should be punished if they discriminate against gay workers.
*remebers reading that*

[ This Message was edited by: Morfos on 2003-12-14 18:05 ]

Monomate

Dec 14, 2003, 09:20 PM

I found out something interesting from a friend of mine from Bangladesh. Apparently there is no word nor idea to express 'homosexual' in his language. He said that's because they know that man and woman is the only way it can be, so there needn't be a word or idea to express something that to them is an impossibility.

That being said, they also do not discriminate against gays.

MasterJoel

Dec 14, 2003, 09:55 PM

On 2003-12-14 18:04, Morfos wrote:
People think gays getting married is so horrible, yet does anybody get hurt by this?

yes, ask the insurance companies, they get murdered by this. and, of course, this means everyone's insurance costs go up as well, and i'm not talking a marginal amount here.

Actually, even in America, most people believe in gay rights, not only that but the majority of Americans believe that businesses should be punished if they discriminate against gay workers.

actually, it's a law. now, i should know this, but i don't know the exact law (reminds self to look over management and supervision class notes), but it is against the law to discriminate against ANY minority seeking the position. it doesn't mean you have to hire them, but it does mean that you can't ask them on either the application or in the interview questions about their race, sex, or sexual preference. the laws regarding the hiring process are very strict, and many MANY questions cannot be asked. if you do ask these questions, and the person does not get the job, they have the right to sue the pants off of you. we can all agree that that is punishment.

oh, and going off on my own tangent here about earler stuff, i was once in a debate class were i was to debate that homosexual couples should not have the right to marry (my own opionion is irrelevent, i had to argue this). i poured over the thing, but i could find nothing in the bible against gays that wasn't rebuked later in the bible. dispite the fact i don't consider myself christian, i do go to a bible study group, and Jesus clearly explains that there are only two laws that christians must obey. the first one is to love your God with everything you have, and the second one is to love EVERYONE (this includes gays) as Jesus (who was part of an everloving God) loves you. therefore, most christians are NOT against homosexuals, but religious extremists are. oh, and morfos, there are plenty of religious liberals too. get over it.

anwserman

Dec 14, 2003, 10:27 PM

yes, ask the insurance companies, they get murdered by this. and, of course, this means everyone's insurance costs go up as well, and i'm not talking a marginal amount here.

How exactly WOULD the insurance companies premiums go up? The only way I can think of it going up would be if both partners have AIDs and have to go through thousands of dollars of meds a month - but they're already straight couples that go through that so it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

Please do clarify what you mean on that.

MasterJoel

Dec 14, 2003, 10:49 PM

On 2003-12-14 19:27, anwserman wrote:

yes, ask the insurance companies, they get murdered by this. and, of course, this means everyone's insurance costs go up as well, and i'm not talking a marginal amount here.

How exactly WOULD the insurance companies premiums go up? The only way I can think of it going up would be if both partners have AIDs and have to go through thousands of dollars of meds a month - but they're already straight couples that go through that so it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

Please do clarify what you mean on that.

well, to be quite honest with you, i'm no expert on that subject. however, i have heard this from several economist experts who say the same thing. i'm inclined to believe them.

Edit: spelling errors.

[ This Message was edited by: MasterJoel on 2003-12-14 19:51 ]

opaopajr

Dec 15, 2003, 08:27 AM

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif a few things.

Pornography is NOT protected by the 1st amendment. along with liable, slander, defamation of character (except politicians), and obscenity round out the exceptions.

The supreme court has passed judgment that since there's so many personal definitions of pornography that they don't have the tools to make the definitive ruling of what constitutes pornography - therefore it is up to the individual communities to determine their tolerance level of it.

There's a species of rain forest frog that NEEDS lesbian sex in order for copulation to take place. The two females have sex, the male watches, and when both have laid their eggs he mastubates and fertilizes them. funny little twist.

and perhaps the most disappointing tidbit of news... it is illegal to discriminate against sex orientation in hiring only. That means when you are employed you can be harassed because of your sexual orientation - and even fired because of it. There's no protection. That also means that if someone is particularly effeminate man, or masculine woman, they can be legally discriminated and harassed by the employers and employees and there is NO legal recourse.

This has been continually unsuccessfully taken to court in San Francisco. The only protections while employed have to be instituted by emploer themself (which they can reneg on), the city, or the county. So far no state, and definitely not the country, has made this harassment illegal.

so anyone who works with you can legally call you a fag (even if you are not) and harass you endlessly. even to the point of causing you a loss of employment. and you will have no legal recourse. in fact if you physically strike back at the person calling you (even falsely) such epithets you can be subjected to lawsuit for assault and battery, while his incitements can be ignored in court (for that IS protected by freedom of speech).

welcome to america and enjoy your stay http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Anubis_

Dec 15, 2003, 10:59 AM

I believe the general idea that every thing, every situataion, every race, gender, animal, human being, and life style in america will be put to terms of being politicaly correct and protected..

By this i mean, there will one day come a time in america, that every way of life will be acceptable in America as long as no one is come to harm..

Every group, Every belief will one day be petitioned and protected by the government from any form of prersecution. This inclueds every group from Gays and Lesbians to Pedofiles and Wife Beaters..

I also believe the freedom aspect that have made this country great, will also be its downfal. Everything will become so politicaly correct, America will plundge as a global power and fall as a country.

Now back to the matter at hand.. What i think..

I know America is supposed to be a free country. That every life style should have the freedom to exist without discrimination.

But I also think that Gay and Lesbian beliefs are unatural and undsound and shouldnt be conducted...

...Now before anyone quotes me..(baqm)

Like i said before you cant Stand up for being an american citizen, without supporting the rights of Gays and Lesbians.. You can quote me on that.. No matter what you say, If your proud of being a citizen of this Country, to not support their beliefs is pure hypocracy.. I didnt say you had to like it.. just to alow it to exist and not hender it..

As stated in the post before mine.. Discrimination still exist legaly amungs the two beliefs.. This I think will change for the Politicaly Correct Society American live in today.. We are clasicaly know for tring to abolish the act of discrimination were ever it exist to form the perfect American Freedom we hold so dear.. I give it 5-10 years.. Depending on how long it takes us to get (a if not already existing, more) homesexual supreme court officials..

lol..

Monomate

Dec 15, 2003, 06:23 PM

On 2003-12-15 05:27, opaopajr wrote:

There's a species of rain forest frog that NEEDS lesbian sex in order for copulation to take place. The two females have sex, the male watches, and when both have laid their eggs he mastubates and fertilizes them. funny little twist.

that's cool...

Interesting bit of information...*stores in memorybanks for later use in some trivial thing*

Nai_Calus

Dec 15, 2003, 10:55 PM

Bleh, homosexuals think they have it bad. Shit, even the homosexuals hate the transsexuals.

*mutters darkly about something and goes back to pondering sleep*

NKOTB

Dec 15, 2003, 11:00 PM

On 2003-12-15 05:27, opaopajr wrote:

There's a species of rain forest frog that NEEDS lesbian sex in order for copulation to take place. The two females have sex, the male watches, and when both have laid their eggs he mastubates and fertilizes them. funny little twist.

Would you care to provide a link so I can read about this amazing frog?

Ness

Dec 15, 2003, 11:05 PM

On 2003-12-15 19:55, Ian-KunX wrote:
Bleh, homosexuals think they have it bad. Shit, even the homosexuals hate the transsexuals.

*mutters darkly about something and goes back to pondering sleep*

Are you trying to tell us something?

Nai_Calus

Dec 15, 2003, 11:08 PM

On 2003-12-15 20:05, Ness wrote:

On 2003-12-15 19:55, Ian-KunX wrote:
Bleh, homosexuals think they have it bad. Shit, even the homosexuals hate the transsexuals.

*mutters darkly about something and goes back to pondering sleep*

Are you trying to tell us something?

Someone must have missed the huge thread where a rant about the legits vs cheaters war turned into a discussion of my gender... >P

Sweet monkey christ. O_o;

ABDUR101

Dec 16, 2003, 02:48 AM

It's a wonder no one said "Hey thats not true! Abdur likes transgenders!".(Although they were dubbed something abit more specific and lewd before)

Ness

Dec 16, 2003, 06:44 AM

On 2003-12-15 20:08, Ian-KunX wrote:

On 2003-12-15 20:05, Ness wrote:

On 2003-12-15 19:55, Ian-KunX wrote:
Bleh, homosexuals think they have it bad. Shit, even the homosexuals hate the transsexuals.

*mutters darkly about something and goes back to pondering sleep*

Are you trying to tell us something?

Someone must have missed the huge thread where a rant about the legits vs cheaters war turned into a discussion of my gender... >P

Sweet monkey christ. O_o;

You're still a female, right?

On 2003-12-15 23:48, ABDUR101 wrote:
It's a wonder no one said "Hey thats not true! Abdur likes transgenders!".(Although they were dubbed something abit more specific and lewd before)

I remember that.

Aredhel

Dec 16, 2003, 10:44 AM

Holyshit...

This is the quotin-ist damn thread I've ever seen!!!

As far as gays go, why do you even care? If you're preaching tolerance so often then why don't you just tolerate things as are and shut up about the whole damn thing! If you think being gay is wrong then maybe you should experience things first-hand? I don't think I'm gay (Oh God, what would mother say? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) and as such, I really don't give a rat's ass about people for their (homo)sexuality.

Bob, how do you know unless you try it? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Morfos

Dec 20, 2003, 10:49 AM

Like i said before you cant Stand up for being an american citizen, without supporting the rights of Gays and Lesbians.

I agree, America was made to protect minorities, not hurt them.

noob-of-fury

Dec 22, 2003, 04:44 AM

On 2003-12-08 17:08, KaFKa wrote:
hes, this homophobic stuff is starting to get on my nerves, especially since the mormons have tried to invade us, spamming with their anti-everything fliers.

Everyone know's mormons don't exist, they're like Santa, and Micheal Jackson... made up to scare children.

Well yep, I agree with the whole quote thing from Volitare(sp?). It's sums up my stance, can't stand it but I'll support'em cause it's their own damn choice. I just find one thing funny... how come some of them(gays) say that it's "natural" to like other men when in fact there is no chance of offspring... hmmmmmmmmm

ABDUR101

Dec 22, 2003, 02:02 PM

Homosexuality happens in the animal kingdom as well. Genetics do not equal "natural", as in, how most people view it as "How God intended".

Genetics are genetics, and when you're attracted to the same sex, thats just how it is, thats you, it's ingrained in your person.

Uncle_bob

Dec 22, 2003, 02:08 PM

So, let's say Uncle was a homocidal transexual child molesting manic depressive bisexual horse fucker. He could blame it on genetics and get away with it, right?

AUTO_

Dec 22, 2003, 02:10 PM

On 2003-12-22 11:02, ABDUR101 wrote:
Homosexuality happens in the animal kingdom as well. Genetics do not equal "natural", as in, how most people view it as "How God intended".

Genetics are genetics, and when you're attracted to the same sex, thats just how it is, thats you, it's ingrained in your person.

Sorry, I don't mean to offend, but I've never boughten into the genetics crap.

There is always something that makes a male or female attracted to their sex--I don't think it has any damn thing to do with genetics. I just say this from how a friend of mine "transformed", and his genetics and early upbringing had absolutely no signs of being homosexual (was actually pretty premiscous sp.).

Anyways, I guess I can't disprove or prove anything, but I've always thought that genetics for homosexuality is completely false.

Just an opinion http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

ABDUR101

Dec 22, 2003, 03:26 PM

Well, I was going to reply and explain and hold a conversation, but after the last two days with work and trying to have an intellectual conversation about something serious on the forums, I'm not going to bother trying another.

If you beleive it's not genes, thats ok, if uncle bob has issues that he can't control and wants to blame genes, thats ok too. In the end, as long as we agree to not care how or why, but that things just are, everything is fine.

KaFKa

Dec 22, 2003, 03:42 PM

On 2003-12-22 12:26, ABDUR101 wrote:
Well, I was going to reply and explain and hold a conversation, but after the last two days with work and trying to have an intellectual conversation about something serious on the forums, I'm not going to bother trying another.

have an intelligent conversation, ABDUR. im sure that it isnt too hard

but yes, blaming EVERYTHING on genes i bullshit. (but there are some things that can be explained through genetics. enter: Homosexuality)

navci

Dec 22, 2003, 03:49 PM

Sorry, I don't mean to offend, but I've never boughten into the genetics crap.

This is how I been educated and my opinion. <-- disclaimer

Genes play a factor, but prolly not the deciding one.
Having certain genes does make you more susceptable to turning out attracting to the same gender. But it might take some environmental/experience trigger for you to really start seeing the same sex as sexually attractive.

The basis of this statement was based on research done on identical twins in which one twin turned out homosexual and the other didn't.

There are many complicated issues that is involve when it comes to genes or not genes. Some said by saying it's completely genes that makes it okay for people for doing many things (like certain sexual fetishes) but then some said if you say it's just environmental influence then it's a choice and people will get blamed and hated for making "such an obvious wrong choice" ...

My take it. I think it's like when you fall in love with someone, sometimes you know it's wrong (I dunno, like, someone who is married) but you can't help it. I think it is kinda similar to that kinda feeling. When you are attracted, you just are.

... my 2 pennies.

Scejntjynahl

Dec 22, 2003, 04:06 PM

Feelings are universally abstract, to define them, to trap them to gender or genes, it is both stupid and foolhardy. Your genetic make up will not dictate what you love or what you hate, that takes experience in pain and happiness. Life teaches you one way or another what you will love or not. For example your genetic makeup does not tell you that fire burns, until you touch fire it is when you fully realize that it burns. Life is the same way. Your genes do not give you insight as to the choices or life you will lead. Genes may hinder you (handicaps, blindness, baldness, etc) but life is what determines if you continue on or not.

To try and quantify abstract into concrete terms is nearly impossible, one would have to have lived everyones life, and I mean everyones, to even consider what it is. We make the mistake to judge others with our own set of experiences, which is extremely limited...

I might continue ranting or whatever, but what is the point. You see it one way, he/she sees it another, and I another way... we can go on till the end of time, and no one will have an answer that will please everyone.

ABDUR101

Dec 22, 2003, 04:13 PM

Thank you navi, thats how I see it as well.

Most of my life growing up, I wasn't really "attracted" to anyone, infact I did'nt really put any thought into anyone on that level.

But when I did, it also seemed alittle confusing, like I was unsure. So I just suppressed all of the feelings and did'nt think about it either way.

Now that I'm older, and been able to talk to others about it, it doesn't feel confusing, it was just that I wasn't ready to accept it into who I was.

I've had neither male nor female contact on a sexual level, but most of my life I was "directed" to thinking some of the feelings I felt were wrong.

The feelings I have aren't wrong, sacriligious or obscene, they come natural. So what if a man or a woman makes me turn my head? So what if I like either? Overall, thats such a small part of who I am as a person, it's funny that it gets blown out of proportion so much.

If someone says it's ok if someone is gay as long as they don't hit on you, well if they hit on you, the problem isn't that they're homosexual, it's that they have no self control and no respect for you as a person. That's their personality which the issue is with, nothing else.

Think it's disgusting? Well as long as they have good hygiene thats not even an issue, unless your dirty thoughts are scaring you? Here's something thats disgusting, all the guys using the urinals in school or in public and then they walk out without washing their hands. Makes it nice to know that alot of people walking through the mall touching clothes and stuff prolly did'nt wash after touching themselves huh?

Overall, it doesn't matter how or why, but everyone is what they are, homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual, and as long as everyone is comfortable with themselves, there should'nt be any issues.

KaFKa

Dec 22, 2003, 04:19 PM

amen

Black000Moon

Dec 22, 2003, 04:50 PM

Still who could hate lesbians?

navci

Dec 22, 2003, 05:15 PM

On 2003-12-22 13:50, Black000Moon wrote:
Still who could hate lesbians?

YOu'd be suprised.

edit: I don't know why did I hit the post button so quick. There are a few things I'd like to say about lesbians and how generally people think it seems like they are more accepted. They are NOT. People said they don't hate lesbians because "two women having sex .. ooh hot" is generally what people think of when they think of lesbians. It's not as hateful because it seems kinky and men start to imagine themselve as a part of it and go on with more fantasizing. But when you really meet someone who is a lesbian most men are like "oh, I'll fix them". That is not really appreciating the lesbians as the way they live, if you know what I mean.

People seem to "hate" lesbians less because they think of them as sexual objects that can be "fixed". Once they realize they really don't like men, those feelings turn into anger, and then hatred even. .. I am not being eloquant with this. But, really, lesbians are just being treated as badly as gays, in a different way. When it comes to legal status and acceptance, it's pretty much the same story for them.

[ This Message was edited by: navi on 2003-12-22 14:27 ]

noob-of-fury

Dec 22, 2003, 05:23 PM

On 2003-12-22 13:13, ABDUR101 wrote:
Overall, it doesn't matter how or why, but everyone is what they are, homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual, and as long as everyone is comfortable with themselves, there should'nt be any issues.

I agree with kafka... amen to that.

Still who could hate lesbians?

I don't know... I just don't know.

anwserman

Dec 22, 2003, 06:46 PM

People don't hate lesbians less... they hate gay men more because society says that men should be attracted to the hot sexy women, be promiscous and have fun.. drink beer, watch football and that sort of stuff. Some gay men are that way, some men aren't. Society always seems to hate gay men more due to perceived stereotypes, that men aren't supposed to be that way...

I dunno, I'm ranting on but its how society perceives the sexes. In some ways, society says its OK for women to have sex with each other, but its wrong for two men to have sex with each other. Its a simple double standard. Men are supposed to be masculane, to be a pimp and to score with the ladies, and that scoring with a man is effimate, or weak. Hell, I hate to tell you ANY man who is secure with their sexuality and doesn't care if a guy or a girl is checking them out is a man to me... we have too many guys going around being offended AND insulted that a man is looking at them. It means you're hot, OK? Live with get, take it as the complement that it is.

I know I didn't make any sense, but my typing will just have to do.

Monomate

Dec 22, 2003, 06:50 PM

On 2003-12-22 13:13, ABDUR101 wrote:

Think it's disgusting? Well as long as they have good hygiene thats not even an issue, unless your dirty thoughts are scaring you? Here's something thats disgusting, all the guys using the urinals in school or in public and then they walk out without washing their hands. Makes it nice to know that alot of people walking through the mall touching clothes and stuff prolly did'nt wash after touching themselves huh?

The Man's got a point there...

starhealer

Dec 22, 2003, 09:38 PM

On 2003-12-22 13:06, Furankunichan wrote:
Your genetic make up will not dictate what you love or what you hate, that takes experience in pain and happiness. Life teaches you one way or another what you will love or not.

My cousins are identical twins. However, one is a lesbian (bi? Maybe) and the other about as straight as a nail. To me, it has nothing to do with their genetics, but their experiences. My one cousin, Joy, had HORRIBLE experiences with boys that tore her apart to the point where she would sit up in the night crying. Her sister, Alyson, had no such experiences. So now Joy is living happily in California with her girlfriend. She'll still look at men admiringly, but her interests are in the female sex. *shrug*

It's all about what happens to you. I truly believe that.

Morfos

Dec 28, 2003, 03:12 PM

On 2003-12-22 11:08, Uncle_bob wrote:
So, let's say Uncle was a homocidal transexual child molesting manic depressive bisexual horse fucker. He could blame it on genetics and get away with it, right?

Since when is being homosexual as bad as molesting children? Molesting children wrecks the life of children. Does being homosexual wreck the lives of anyone other than the homosexual? Nope, unless he or she knows some obsessive moron who hates the fact that there is a homosexual in this world. The fact is, being homosexual does not infringe on others' freedoms or pursuits of hapiness, which is what the Consitution protects. Comparing homosexualality(sp?) to murder or molesting is a pointless arguement. And Ive already told you why. Homosexuals are people with feeling just like everybody else, stop discriminating them for their sexuality, which they cannot help. *no flames intended*