Anything PSO Story-Related/PSO Info

[AUTO_]

I recently got the Mods to agree to make this a sticky...not because I myself have so much to share about the PSO story--but because it will cut down a lot of threads and is just a better way to view info on the story/share info/etc.

I guess I can add a "Did you know" section...

Did you know...

-Flowen donates his body to Dr. Osto for government experiments after sustaining a life threatening injury?

-That the majority of NPC's (hunters) have BLUEFULL section ID's?

-That Pioneer2 had a lot of unregistered citizens? The consumption rate onboard was much higher then the passanger count. What were the unregistered citizens for?

-That Flowen and Donoph were best friends?

-That the red-haired ranger in "Black Paper" is the father of the RAmarl in the quest Seat of the Heart?

-That Pioneer 1 and 2 are identical spaceships and each could carry 30,000 people?

-That the original ponytail-hairstyle for HUmars (Ep1&2) also came with a snazzy pair of reading glasses? Must have not looked masculine enough?

-That the baby hildebear gives you a moon atomizer in the Forest of Sorrow? Or that Tails' Chao is hiding in F1 at the end of The Fake in Yellow?

-That the hologram screen behind every tekker shows the location of Pioneer 3? It flashes in red color about every 3 seconds.

-Gallon and Garon are the same person(just a translation error)?

-That Beta772 (De Rol) killed 6 scientists and injured 27(?) people when it was moved to a bigger tank?

-That Milarose's assistant is named Dan?

-That Olga Flow was mentioned on the Dreamcast version (v2)?

-That all of the buildings built by Pioneer1 colonists on Ragol were constructed of hexagonal tile-tessalations?

-That the guns actually use Photon packs similar to clips (the Book of Hunters)?





I'll stop there, but I'll give you a topic to discuss if you can't think of one:

"Did Dr. Osto have good intentions on Ragol?"

[Butoden]

-That the hologram screen behind every tekker shows the location of Pioneer 3? It flashes in red color about every 3 seconds. Pioneer 3? I gotta check that out http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif Is it Pioneer 3 that's used in PSO episode 3?

Anyways, I can add one! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Did you know?

-You can't convert weapons before talking to Ellone on Pioneer 2 in a Tier 2 Quest, (i think it was FiY) or else Montague would say: WHERE'S ELLONE! Even after finishing all the needed quests...

[Sharkyland]

That's very interesting though... though in my artbook, I want the stuff at the end translated where it has details and comments about certain things like timeline, MAG, Pioneer1, the people during the quests, but I'm still unable to read Japanese.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Little correction... Pioneer One was known to have a lot of unregistered citizens, or at least that was Red Ring Rico's speculation. There's no word about the unregistered population on Pioneer 2.

Also, another interesting note about Donoph.

Did you know that Donoph Baz (DB) was Ash's trainer? That's why he goes from wimp in Battle Training to Stag-weilding Master of the Dark Side in From the Depths.

Agito gets stronger with older models because the first one was perfection and the rest are replicas. Flowen's Sword gets stronger with newer models, because they are improvements upon older models.

Lobby 7, I believe, normally hosts holograms of Ragol and its moons. It has two moons, and they are all quite visible from any of the Episode II lobbies. Conclusive proof-- Ragol is NOT Earth.

I cannot emphasize this enough: Newmans are NOT Elves. Elves do not exist in any Phantasy Star game. Their long ears are a throwback to the original Phantasy Star's character, Myau, who was a muskcat that happened to have especially long ears.

The Newman race was originally developed by a super-computer named Motherbrain. The first "Numans" were intended to be the death of the human race. Sometime after the destruction of Motherbrain in AUW 1284, the project was taken up by a computer named Seed, which changed the project's objective to making a breeding partner for humans, that would produce a race that could more easily survive in Motavia's declining condition. Seed self-destructed in AUW 2284 to avoid being manipulated by Dark Falz, after releasing the prototype, Rika, into the world.

Natasha Milarose once worked directly underneath Principal Tyrell.

Principal Tyrell was a hunter at one time. This is why he trusts the Hunters' Guild so much.

[Outrider]

So wait, Donoph is Alicia's father or something along those lines?

Also, even though it appears that Bernie is killed trying to help out Great Sword Zoke, he shows up again with Ash in Seat of the Heart. I guess he's tougher than we expected.

[shinto_kuji]

This is a good idea for a sticky. Why didn't I think of it? >.> Nice did you know's, though.

A question. Does anyone know Principal Tyrell's first name? And what about his wife?

[navci]

Principal Tyrell's first name is Colin. His wife was never mentioned. That is why many speculated Natasha Milarose was somehow involved in the creation of Rico Tyrell. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And PEOPLE! THIS LINK! (http://psotnl.merlinwebs.com/) has most of the stuff about NPC mentioned. I cannot emphansize enough how complete this NPC guide has been. Really. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And. Flowen is Alicia Baz's official adoptive father, he even insist that Alicia is his real daughter. When he set out on Pioneer 1, he left Alicia to his old friend Donoph to talk care of her. (hence "Baz") But then she lost Donoph also. Poor poor girl.

And. Hm. EP 3 is still about Pioneer 2. 21 years later.

I'd be interested in seeing more about little things in the game rather than NPCs, tho. Like.. did you know you can see the other lobbies from any lobby? Like, from the Viridia lobby you can see Greenile and Whitill lobby.

(and whoever mentioned it, I am helping translating most of the stuff from the artbook for Azureblaze) http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Hikara]

Did you know?

The Olga in Olga Flow is actually the Pioneer 1's Artificial Intelligence? I'm not sure if that was corrupt, but if it was, that would explain Flowen going nuts, eh?

[navci]

On 2004-01-15 11:44, Hikara wrote:
Did you know?
The Olga in Olga Flow is actually the Pioneer 1's Artificial Intelligence? I'm not sure if that was corrupt, but if it was, that would explain Flowen going nuts, eh?


Hehe. Funny, I just did that bit of translation today. Three AIs, Olga, Vol OP and Calus, were all known to be created by Dr. Osto Hyle. Vol OP regulates the mines facility, Olga in the Seabed, and Calus, function unknown. So... ya, Flowen would be fused with Olga because they are both in Seabed. And, well, come to think of it, everything on Ragol is corrupted. Hehe

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-01-15 11:00, navi wrote:
And PEOPLE! THIS LINK! (http://psotnl.merlinwebs.com/) has most of the stuff about NPC mentioned. I cannot emphansize enough how complete this NPC guide has been. Really. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


That particular site lacks any mention of Gilliam, the default RAcast, whose name we know because of Seat of the Heart, as well as the default RAmarl, who also appears in Seat of the Heart, and as interesting a character as her cameo made her seem to be, it did not mention her name.

[navci]

That particular site lacks any mention of Gilliam, the default RAcast, whose name we know because of Seat of the Heart, as well as the default RAmarl, who also appears in Seat of the Heart, and as interesting a character as her cameo made her seem to be, it did not mention her name.


Good point. I hope he reads this thread.
RAmar's name is Marvel. She is the daughter of some high miltary official.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Her name is Marvel, is it? Hmm...

Think her full name may be Marvel Greyhart?

[Kadou]

Just a note: there was once a thread titled "Fanfic Research" or something like that, made back when I had a post count of about 10. It contained some information for fanfic writers that was not explained well in the game, and there were 5 pages or so (my post limit set to 25) of debating and additions to information. I'd put a link here, but I can't remember the exact title or the author's name to do a search.

[navci]

On 2004-01-15 14:16, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Her name is Marvel, is it? Hmm...
Think her full name may be Marvel Greyhart?


Who is Greyhart?

Actually, I do have a question. If you have not played Fireswirl on Central Dome (whatever its called), how do you know Rupika's name is Rupika?

[LadyRedComet]

I found out her name is Rupika in Gran Squall...When you get to the room with the FOnewearl on it, get up the Word Select menu and pick Hello (or something) and then when it gives you the names you can address it to, Rupika is one of them. Therefore, her name must be Rupika. That method works for finding out the names of other NPCs too (you can even say hello to Calus in SotH if you get word select up in the hall you go down to get to Elly after Cal rescues her from the kidnapper-guy).

[Outrider]

Argh, NPC names... something I've been trying to do for a long time.

When I was thinking of making the list, I wanted to do a complete NPC list... even having the people who just wander around Pioneer 2. They don't have names, but they do show up only on specific quests sometimes.

[AUTO_]

On 2004-01-15 14:09, navi wrote:
Good point. I hope he reads this thread.
RAmar's name is Marvel. She is the daughter of some high miltary official.



I'm pretty sure (mentioned above) that she's the daughter of the RAmar involved with Black Paper (red hair and uses partisens).

On one of the later quests he says how he's afraid that his "daughter might betray him at any moment".

Not 100% on this, though. Just inferring.

[AzureBlaze]

Thank you, Navi, for mentioning my site's NPC guide. (and for the the help with it too! I'd of never gotten that info, if it wasn't for you)
It is so inspiring for me to work on it more if I know people are appriciateing and learning from it.

And...I also realize that the Seat Of The Heart people are missing from it. In one of the old updates it said I was going to do a whole SoH sub-section (much like the Soul of Steel one). However, as you can tell, it never got finished mostly because I hate having to do all the offline quests and Bernie-Searching it requires to get both varients of it. This is a reminder I need to get on top of that again....argh.

Or, has anyone here been thru both scenarios in it? I've only done and beaten the first, where you are with Elly the whole time, and Kireek does not appear.

Annd here are some interesting time-wasteing facts which might be able to be used in plots so the post remains relevent! Or not.
Bernie is a pun. Bernie is a Ranger, he usues the Flame Visit, and casts a type of Foie as a spell. Burning Rangers is another Sonic Team game. Hah. :P

Berill means 'Mirror' in German, which is somewhat appropriate for this Sinow, except that it functions as the opposite of a normal mirror. It reflects what is behind it to the front in order to seem invisible.

There is a centipede in the Sea Side level. Can you find it? It crawls around in the underbrush. (It is red/orange)

I love finding out obscure facts and little gimmics people put into games, especially PSO. I've also been a fan of it's hidden plot, which is why this thread is so great. Too many people whine and scream 'there is no plot!', but I've always maintained that that's not true, it's just pretty well hidden, and mostly explained thru the NPCs.

One of the benefits of PSO is also it's drawback. You are YOU in the game. You're not playing the role of some pre-set char that they can just hand dialogue to, as in most other games. So the real people in this game technically can't start spouting backstory credibly or really takeing part in a 'master plot/plan' because technically every other hunter out there will have done the exact same thing. So naturally, there's not going to be some vast plot starring just you...it was always a game for everyone.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-01-15 14:39, navi wrote:
Who is Greyhart?



I spelled the name wrong... I'm refering to Leo Grahart.

[navci]

On 2004-01-15 21:51, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:


On 2004-01-15 14:39, navi wrote:
Who is Greyhart?

I spelled the name wrong... I'm refering to Leo Grahart.


According to this site (http://www010.upp.so-net.ne.jp/kawabata/pso/etc/npc.html) (Japanese) there is the speculation, however, it was not proven in any way that she is.

And w00t. This site that I just found and linked has some pretty obscure NPC facts, which I would slowly translate and post. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Someone mentioned some nameless NPC wandering on P2? Names are listed!

[Outrider]

On 2004-01-15 22:56, navi wrote:

And w00t. This site that I just found and linked has some pretty obscure NPC facts, which I would slowly translate and post. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Someone mentioned some nameless NPC wandering on P2? Names are listed!



Nameless NPC's have names!?!?!?

!!!

I love you Navi. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[navci]

Nameless NPC's have names!?!?!?

I guess since they have names they aren't really nameless anymore.

But then there are quite a few that is truely nameless, and the list of them is See the pictures of them (http://www010.upp.so-net.ne.jp/kawabata/pso/etc/npc.html#nameless)

Translation below:

Yellowboze HUcast:
Appeared in Claiming a stake, Waterfall tears, Grave's Butler, and Rappy Holiday. The site actually has quotes of what he said, but I am not bothering with translating. Hehe

Red spikey hair HUnewearl:
Claming a Stake, Vanishing Bride, Knowing one's heart, and all of the Hopkin's lost weapon quests.

Small kid.. type... person:
Claiming a stake's WEAPONS member, Forest of Sorrow, as well as Central Dome fire thingy.

Young man type person:
Heart of Steel, WEAPONS member in the Value of Money, Fake in the Yellow, Forest of Sorrow, Central Dome fire thingy, addicting food.

Dark FOmarl in black dress:
Fake in the Yellow, Grave's Butler, TTF, Rappy Holiday (only see her if you have cleared Gallon's Trachery)

Pink hair FOnewearl:
Fake in the yellow and Addicting food

Another boring young man person:
Gran Squall.

Lady with hat:
WEAPONS member in Gran Squal.

Purple RAmar:
Addicting food, Knowing one's heart, Grave's Butler, also all of the Hopkins' lost weapons quests and Rappy's Holiday. (and he got pawned by your score quite often, heh)

Deafult RAcast:
Addicting food. Commenting on how he can't understand about why the cake sister went down to Ragol.

Middle aged lady:
Waterfall tears, she talked about Anna and Kroe. Then again in Soul of a blacksmith, prolly his wife or something, thanked you for taking up his quest.

Nurse Kaori-chan (well, I named her that):
Retired hunter, talking about Donoph.

Whew, last on the list:
Tekker person who run around talking in Retired Hunter about Donoph's death and about Zoke's four legendary katana in ... er, I don't know the English name of that quest but it's the one with Shino and you go and try to help out Zoke even tho he's dead.

Okies! Finished! *falls over dead*

[AUTO_]

Navi when you mentioned the lobbies are based on Section ID (Viridia lobby, etc)...where do you get this conclusion? Just curious.



I should also mention that Rico looks a hell of a lot smaller in the PSO ending (sparring with Tyrell) then she does when her "spirit" exits Dark Falz.

Maybe the pic of her sparring with Tyrell is when she was a little kid???

[navci]

On 2004-01-16 00:46, AUTO_ wrote:
Navi when you mentioned the lobbies are based on Section ID (Viridia lobby, etc)...where do you get this conclusion? Just curious.


Well. It is indeed a speculation on my part but it does seem to fit. See, Lobby 1 through 10 is the GC lobbies.

1: Green with trees (Viridia?)
2. Lighter green with flowers (Greenil?)
3. Light blue with ... er, wind.. thing (Skyly?)
4. Blue with fountains (Blueful?)
5. Purple with fish tanks (Purplenum?)
6. Light red/pink with doves (Pinkal?)
7. Red with the planet thingy (Redria?)
8. Orange with rainbows (ORAN?)
9. Yellow with stained glass (Yellowboze?)
10. White and snowy (WHITILL?)

Question mark all on the end to show that I am indeed uncertain. But, well, what do you think? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Yesh. I needa sleep now. *yawn*

edit: Never been able to spell Greenil right. :/


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: navi on 2004-01-16 01:00 ]</font>

[KodiaX987]

Some random info about the time taken to get to Ragol. I made the mistake in a fic of mine by saying Pioneer II took 7 years to get to Ragol. That wasn't true. While talking to an NPC, I learned the following:

-It takes two years to travel to Ragol.
-Thus, since P2 arrived 7 years after P1, we are to assume P2 got the okay message from P1 less than 5 years after P1 landed.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-01-16 00:46, AUTO_ wrote:
Maybe the pic of her sparring with Tyrell is when she was a little kid???


yuo = correct!!!11


Seriously though... Yeah, that most certainly a picture of Tyrell training Rico at some point before Pioneer 1 left Coral.

And I should hope that I'm not the only one that finds Navi's theory about lobbies corresponding to Section IDs to make an unreasonable amount of sense.

EDIT: After all, the Section ID system DOES start with Viridia. Need proof? First observe that a lowercase "d" or "n" will not change your Section ID. Make a character (or use a calculator) consisting of "d" or "n". Viridia. Try "dd" or "dn" or "nn" or "dndnd" or "nnnnnn" or whatever combination of the two letters. You will *always* get Viridia.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2004-01-16 11:42 ]</font>

[Sharkyland]

Is there a place where there is a translation from the Book of Hunters? Plus, why do some Newmans have ears going vertical while some go horizontal...

[AUTO_]

On 2004-01-16 12:53, Sharkyland wrote:
Is there a place where there is a translation from the Book of Hunters? Plus, why do some Newmans have ears going vertical while some go horizontal...



Bad genes? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

I have the Book of Hunters--and it made me realize(after looking through all the material) just how much MORE the Japanese must know about this game.

Poor US.

Pun intended.




I have a question for you guys:

Where exactly is Pioneer1--the actual ship?

It is identical to P2 (scientist says this), but where did it go? I wouldn't think they would fly around the surface of Ragol with it...

Is it in the Central Dome? Did Falz take it for a toy?

I don't understand that.

[Jaks]

I think pioneer 1 is the Central Dome.

[AUTO_]

On 2004-01-16 18:32, Jaks wrote:
I think pioneer 1 is the Central Dome.



Very interesting idea...and it actually makes sense (in terms of design and central location).

[Jaks]

On 2004-01-15 08:31, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

The Newman race was originally developed by a super-computer named Motherbrain.

A Metroid connection? O_o...

Good idea!!

(comes up with a plot for a fanfic)

[Kadou]

On 2004-01-16 12:53, Sharkyland wrote:
Plus, why do some Newmans have ears going vertical while some go horizontal...



Because they're probably engineered by/at different laboratories.

[Kadou]

On 2004-01-16 11:20, KodiaX987 wrote:
Some random info about the time taken to get to Ragol. I made the mistake in a fic of mine by saying Pioneer II took 7 years to get to Ragol. That wasn't true. While talking to an NPC, I learned the following:

-It takes two years to travel to Ragol.
-Thus, since P2 arrived 7 years after P1, we are to assume P2 got the okay message from P1 less than 5 years after P1 landed.



I think you got the two and the five reversed, but what do I know? I made the same mistake when calculating a few of my chars' pasts.

[Monomate]

On 2004-01-16 18:32, Jaks wrote:
I think pioneer 1 is the Central Dome.


I agree. I always figured that when P1 arrived, they basically took it apart, and used it to build the Central Dome and the 'Residential Area' on Ragol.

I figured they would do the same with P2.

[Outrider]

Maybe the ship is made to easily be turned into some sort of habitat. After all, they weren't really planning on going back to their home planet.

[Temjin-On]

Newmans, I knew about them, course, if you havent played your old school PS,then shame on you!

Yea P1 is probably the Central Dome.

[AUTO_]

Oh btw...

Mags are made by scientists and given to the hunters as a tradition (when they become one).

There used to be a rumor that Androids "birthed" Mags.

[KodiaX987]

On 2004-01-16 19:17, Outrider wrote:
Maybe the ship is made to easily be turned into some sort of habitat. After all, they weren't really planning on going back to their home planet.



P2 is a city. Land, take off the glass dome, and boom! Colonization's over and it took a day at worst.

[AUTO_]

Anyone know if Yuji Naka's Business Card is still an obtainable item on the GC/XBOX?

It was on the DC version (v2) and I don't believe it was a hack.




On another note:

How did Flowen escape from Olga after he sustained his 'life threatening injury'? He would of had to crawl up the garbage chute(sp?) or something...

[Nai_Calus]

It was Falz, not Olga, lol. As far as we know Olga was just another AI until she/he/it got implanted into Flowen to try to control him.

Hey Navi, you gonna post what you translated at me about Mags when I asked you on AIM that time?

Fluffy: I still refuse to be related to Delsabers. >_<;;;

[AUTO_]

My statement stands, dammit!

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_evil.gif

How did he escape Falz while the rest of his crew got wiped out?

This brings up another interesting question...

Where exactly IS*** Dark Falz' Tomb? You start out in a pretty looking garden type deal--then it turns into the 7th circle of hell.

Does the ruins just have a greenhouse or something for this ginormous area for Falz' tomb?

[navci]

Where exactly IS*** Dark Falz' Tomb? You start out in a pretty looking garden type deal--then it turns into the 7th circle of hell.


I'd like to think that it is an illusion Falz provide you with so it can scare the heck out of you when you wander innocently into his tomb and *gulp* you are eaten! w00t!

I agreed with whoever said Central Dome is prolly P1 took apart and built it with P1 material. Would also make lots of sense. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Okay. MAG and the info about them!
MAG was developed by Dr. Osto Hyle and Dr. Jean Carlos Montague. (back when Montague is 11! He was telling the truth when he said he's a genius) MAG project is the first project that started to use the D-cells that collected from manless probe from Ragol. The idea is that they have found this new lifeform/substance, the D-Cells from Ragol... which is how the whole conspiracy started. Pioneer 1 WANTED to go to Ragol because they found this substance, not because it's a real paradise as they want people to believe. They wanted to mine this planet and further research the substance.

... I went off topic. Anyway. The MAG project (used capital letters to show the subject being talked about here)is the first to develope a new form of life. Mags' core has D-cells in it, over the top they slap a metal shell covering it, and the "Emotional AI" regulates the D-cells... it is the first machine and organic fused life forms. They evolve with medical items and will change into different forms, as we all know.

So essentially, Mags are Delsaber's cousins, so to speak. You can also say it is Falz's cousin. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif This leads to why the Photon Mirages look the way they do. On Coral if the Mags were to have a Photon Blast it doesn't actually take a distinct shape as it is on Ragol. It is said that they do on Ragol because of the D-cells density on the planet, the.. "abnormal photons" as Montague said. If you look at the Photon Mirages carefully you will see they do resemble the Dark enemies, only that their body is light in colour. They share the same roots. The reason they do look different is probably because the D-cells in Mags have been worked on by human, engineering in a different way and hence it alters the mirages somewhat.

The Mag project is the first step of Project MOTHER. Its sucess is required before they go on researching about more complicated lifeforms that could possibly be created with the D-cells.

*whew*

[navci]

On 2004-01-16 18:56, Kadou wrote:


On 2004-01-16 12:53, Sharkyland wrote:
Plus, why do some Newmans have ears going vertical while some go horizontal...

Because they're probably engineered by/at different laboratories.


This is only my assumption. I kinda think they were slightlyy different breds even. It would be logical for the combat kinda newman to have standing up ears... you know, like an animal thing. Fiercer animals usually have stand up ears. While, the Forces, not as fierce (physically) might have horizontal ears ... because they are more.... relaxed? Or it could be an artistic representation so the hunter newman look fiercer and Forces not so much that.

Speculations.

[Butoden]

On 2004-01-16 18:32, Jaks wrote:
I think pioneer 1 is the Central Dome.
Lol, after Pioneer 1 landed, it commenced construction on the Central Dome.

It says so in the freakin' intro movie! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif It's possible that Pio 1 = Central Dome, but they should say: Pioneer 1 landed on Ragol and they changed it into the Central Dome... But it didn't...

And didn't Pioneer 1 look identical to Pioneer 2?? Kinda odd that Central Dome looks completly different from Pioneer 2!!

[Garanz2]

On 2004-01-16 18:14, AUTO_ wrote:


On 2004-01-16 12:53, Sharkyland wrote:
Is there a place where there is a translation from the Book of Hunters? Plus, why do some Newmans have ears going vertical while some go horizontal...



Bad genes? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

I have the Book of Hunters--and it made me realize(after looking through all the material) just how much MORE the Japanese must know about this game.

Poor US.

Pun intended.




I have a question for you guys:

Where exactly is Pioneer1--the actual ship?

It is identical to P2 (scientist says this), but where did it go? I wouldn't think they would fly around the surface of Ragol with it...

Is it in the Central Dome? Did Falz take it for a toy?

I don't understand that.



I noticed something the other day. When fighting falz's first 3 forms (darvants, dragon, butterfly) The arena is actually surrounded by Yellow, grey and white debris. And since P1 and P2 are identical, and P2 is coloured yellow, grey, and white on the outside...

Hmm? Hmm?

[Robo47]

Little fact.


You see the Jetbikes in the forest?

The riders weren't gong fast enough! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif






seriously:

the 'Ruins' is a giant spacecraft from a previous PS game I don't quite remember if it was 3 or 4 though.
To correct me its the one where you fight a Dark Falz thats atached to a giant computer wall.

Ragol is earth.

[AUTO_]

On 2004-01-17 21:53, Robo47 wrote:
Little fact.


You see the Jetbikes in the forest?

The riders weren't gong fast enough! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif






seriously:

the 'Ruins' is a giant spacecraft from a previous PS game I don't quite remember if it was 3 or 4 though.
To correct me its the one where you fight a Dark Falz thats atached to a giant computer wall.

Ragol is earth.




#1. Those aren't jetbikes. You can see them around Pioneer2 in the intro movie--I would guess they're single passanger ships.

#2. Ragol isn't Earth. Lot's of reasons that I don't want to go into (mainly 2 moons)...check www.camineet.net and go to the theorys section...go, learn my child!



In remark to Garanz' post...

Yeah, I noticed the debris to, now that you mention it...

Holy shit; so maybe Dark Falz did destroy the actual P1 Ship...

And all the faces in the ground could be the souls of the dead passangers onboard P1.

Hmmmmm

[Butoden]

I noticed something the other day. When fighting falz's first 3 forms (darvants, dragon, butterfly) The arena is actually surrounded by Yellow, grey and white debris. And since P1 and P2 are identical, and P2 is coloured yellow, grey, and white on the outside...

Hmm? Hmm?
Actually I thought he took you to his realm... I think I read this somewhere too, not sure if it was a fan-fic or something official though http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

[Robo47]

Nah see, Ragol may have two moons but it is the future, maybe a meteor was going past and got stuck in Earths orbit?

[Kadou]

No, Ragol isn't Earth. It's the Old Earth analog built by the TechnoCore as an enviroment for their cybrid projects.

... Don't ask.

[AUTO_]

Ragol isn't Earth and the Ruins isn't the AlisaIII. (http://www.camineet.net/theories/ragolnotearth.shtml)

If you want proof, try digging for a thread on PSOW--I remember someone got a response from a ST rep. that went something like this:

'Ragol isn't Earth. It is a different place.'

[Shake]

Question: Can someone explain the MOTHER project?

I'd like to understand it a bit more clearly.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-01-16 18:45, Jaks wrote:


On 2004-01-15 08:31, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

The Newman race was originally developed by a super-computer named Motherbrain.

A Metroid connection? O_o...

Good idea!!

(comes up with a plot for a fanfic)



Purely coincidence. Motherbrain from Metroid is an actual brain floating in a big jar. Motherbrain in Phantasy Star 2 was a giant super computer, capable of managing an entire solar system's government and ecological systems. It was built by humans from Earth (by that time, they'd destroyed Earth's environment beyond repair by trying to control it, and thus built ships to wander the stars), who eventually tried to destroy Algol out of jealousy of the Palmans' simple happiness with their planets.


Oh yeah... And Ragol is NOT Earth. The only reason anyone thought it was, had to do with a continent seen on Ragol, as it appears in PSODC's title screen, that looks vaguely like Africa. Nowhere else that Ragol is seen in any game of the series, does the continent give that impression, though the shape is still more or less there. Furthermore, Episode III gives a very nice surface map of Ragol, and it's not Earth. Let alone the fact that it has two moons, neither of which looks anything like our moon. Furthermore, by AUW 3084, Earth's atmosphere had been destroyed beyond repair thousands upon thousands of years prior (according to Phantasy Star 2). So no, Ragol is not Earth.

And Pioneer 1 is indeed the Central Dome. Remember that this is a colony ship. It was probably designed to be able to just land and convert into a permanent city. Beyond that, somewhere in the game it states quite specifically that Pioneer 1 was made into the Central Dome. How much they had to manually take apart and reconstruct to do that, I dunno.

Concerning Flowen, and how he escaped from Falz... Well, keep in mind that Flowen was a legendary hero, and Falz was still fairly weak at the time (ie, not in the same form that we see and fight at the end of Ruins). He took his injuries in escaping from Dark Falz, embraced his pain, and hobbled away for his life.

Concerning why the Ruins has a green pasture, cemetary kind of place, this is one of the reasons why people theorize that the Ruins are at least part of a Palman World Ship (Admittedly, it even reminded me of the interior of the Alisa III, as seen in Phantasy Star 3).

Also, keep in mind when observing Mike Ripplinger's theories on Camineet.net, that a number of his theories were developed to support his belief that Noah is not Lutz, which lead to some fairly outlandish ideas (such as the idea that Lutz and Rolf made an undocumented trip to the Air Castle, after Phantasy Star 2), that needed more theories to support them. A lot of his logic is also based on the idea that when an NPC says something, they aren't necessarily telling you the truth (which very well may be, but typically if an NPC lies, you soon find out). So yeah, to put it short, I don't really agree with a lot of his thinking.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2004-01-18 22:19 ]</font>

[Kadou]

On 2004-01-18 21:57, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Oh yeah... And Ragol is NOT Earth. The only reason anyone thought it was, had to do with a continent seen on Ragol, as it appears in PSODC's title screen, that looks vaguely like Africa. Nowhere else that Ragol is seen in any game of the series, does the continent give that impression, though the shape is still more or less there.



Actually, on GC and XBox the explosion takes place somewhere in what for us is Brazil. The continent looks exactly like South America. And just for the record, I think on DC and PC it's in Kenya; not sure though.

[AUTO_]

On 2004-01-18 16:45, Shake wrote:
Question: Can someone explain the MOTHER project?

I'd like to understand it a bit more clearly.



I think the MOTHER project is just the Japanese version of the "Pioneer Project"...it's just the immigration plan from Coral (or wherever) to Ragol.

DUDES...

Ragol IS NOT EARTH. It was confirmed by a Sonic Team Rep. and was posted in a thread a long time ago on PSOW. The person made the thread because he thought a section looked like Africa.

Ragol IS NOT EARTH.






Ragol IS NOT EARTH


http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[LadyRedComet]

On 2004-01-19 11:48, Kadou wrote:

Actually, on GC and XBox the explosion takes place somewhere in what for us is Brazil. The continent looks exactly like South America. And just for the record, I think on DC and PC it's in Kenya; not sure though.



It looks exactly like South America. In the Northern Hemisphere.

[Kadou]

On 2004-01-19 16:18, LadyRedComet wrote:


On 2004-01-19 11:48, Kadou wrote:

Actually, on GC and XBox the explosion takes place somewhere in what for us is Brazil. The continent looks exactly like South America. And just for the record, I think on DC and PC it's in Kenya; not sure though.



It looks exactly like South America. In the Northern Hemisphere.



Uhh.. Continental drift?

[AUTO_]

Oh! I remembered a question I was going to ask:

Do you guys know who Kireek's 'Pioneer 1 Rival' is?

At the end of Waterfall Tears (after you beat Kireek), he says something about how his "Rival on Pioneer 1" will be happy or something.

Any ideas?

BTW: Navi your theory about the SectionID lobbies is infact correct.

1. Viridia
2. Greenil
3. Skyly
4. Bluefull
5. Purplenum
6. Pinkal
7. Redria
8. Oran
9. Yellowboze
10. Whitill

^ You'll notice right when you walk into a lobby that you can see the NEXT/PREVIOUS lobby on the far side(s).

Far Right: Previous lobby

Far Left: Next Lobby

An example of this would be sitting in say; lobby 5 (purplenum).
On the right (facing forward from the warp) side you can see a blue tower--the bluefull lobby.
On the left you can see a pink tower--the Pinkal lobby (lobby6).

This leads to knowing that the lobbies encircle a central area (that huge-dome like area)...which is probably the main area of Pioneer 2???

Btw: If you're in lobby10 (whitill), and you look to the left (next lobby), you see a dark green tower (lobby1/Viridia)...
Also, the moons change position when you change lobbies.



Another interesting tidbit:

That circular track in lobbies 1-10 that has that little "train" block moving around on it...

2 times around from any fixed point is NEARLY (within seconds) 1 beat.

[LadyRedComet]

Uhh.. Continental drift?



South America is drifting South and West.

[Kadou]

On 2004-01-19 16:33, LadyRedComet wrote:



Uhh.. Continental drift?



South America is drifting South and West.



Shut up you. Maybe PSO's developers didn't know that.

Yeah, my arguement is getting pretty weak.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

It's simply not Earth... Later tonight, I'll post a picture of the map of Ragol from Episode 3. It's not Earth.

[navci]

On 2004-01-19 16:30, AUTO_ wrote:
Oh! I remembered a question I was going to ask:

Do you guys know who Kireek's 'Pioneer 1 Rival' is?


Heathcliff Flowen.
I put this down for Azureblaze's site.

Project MOTHER is not the same as the Pioneer project. Not a whole lot has been really said about the project, and it's like top secret stuff. But what it is, is to develope a new form of life like they did with andriods and newman. As I said, the project that created Mag is the first step to Project Mother. The two andriods that has been developed on the line of this project is Ult and Elenor (MOTHER 00 and MOTHER 01, respectively). I believe what Montague trying to do with them is intergrate emotions into them, prolly usually the same kinda procedure and technology they used to create the Emotional AI/ Mag.

Ya. Meaning they are D-cell cored to certain extend.

[Shake]

On 2004-01-19 16:30, AUTO_ wrote:

Do you guys know who Kireek's 'Pioneer 1 Rival' is?



Kireek's rival is Heathcliff Flowen. When Flowen is presumed dead, Kireek sort of begins to lose it. He joins up with Black Paper and becomes the Black Hound that kills off potential threats to the Black Paper program. He became the hound in hopes of finding a new rival. When he meets the character you play, he finds that rival, which is why he asks you to train and get stronger. But, eventually he is consumed by Falz if you take the Soul Eater sidequest, or he walks off into the unknown with Sue for the Sue subplot.



Anyways, that MOTHER program is something I looked into. This is what I discovered, and if I am wrong with anything, please correct me. I want to apologize beforehand if any of it is indeed false.

The journey to Ragol wasn't truly for the Pioneer plan. Scientists like Hyle and Graves discovered an unknown dark factor existing there. The Pioneer plan was a cover up for the government to conduct experiments involving this dark factor.

The MOTHER plan was a plan to create the next lifeform. It created the artificial intelligence programs, Olga, Vol Opt, and Calus. The Calus AI had it's whole composition divided due to Elly's involvement with the older model. It's in Seat of the Heart when Calus is attempting to return to MOTHER in a trial to become human. Or, something that can exist in the same plane as Elly.

I'm still confused as to Elenor Camuel's involvement with the plan though...I can't remember the special ending of Soul of Steel at all. Grr those late night gaming sessions!

Edit: Haha, Navi beat me to it..

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shake on 2004-01-19 18:31 ]</font>

[HUnewearl_Meira]

All right... As promised, here are a couple of pictures of Ragol's surface, from Episode 3. Note, it is clearly *not* Earth.

Image #1 (http://www.angelfire.com/anime5/vangarrett/Episode-3-Map-1.jpg)


Image #2 (http://www.angelfire.com/anime5/vangarrett/Episode-3-Map-2.jpg)

Two moons, no recognizeable continents when clearly seen. Not Earth. Let the argument be put to rest.

[Robo47]

On 2004-01-19 18:30, Shake wrote:

I'm still confused as to Elenor Camuel's involvement with the plan though...I can't remember the special ending of Soul of Steel at all. Grr those late night gaming sessions!



Apparently, Elenor is Mother.

Montague had worked on the original Mother and must have accidentaly integrated Mother into Elenors body.

[navci]

Apparently, Elenor is Mother.

Montague had worked on the original Mother and must have accidentaly integrated Mother into Elenors body.


Read my post.
It isn't an accident! Ult was MOTHER 00, and Elenor is MOTHER 01. It was all planned. With Osto gone Montague is the only person who is working on the project now and hence miltary man running around him all the time.

[Kadou]

Hey Navi, if you ever have the time, I'd like to get as much info on the mother project as is possible, and you seem to be the most knowledgable. Maybe you could translate a bit from whatever your source is and post it here? If it affects your attitide toward it, I need it for a fanfic I'm planning after I finish (and will probably come out better than) Revelations, my current fic.

[Robo47]

On 2004-01-20 17:12, navi wrote:


Apparently, Elenor is Mother.

Montague had worked on the original Mother and must have accidentaly integrated Mother into Elenors body.


Read my post.
It isn't an accident! Ult was MOTHER 00, and Elenor is MOTHER 01. It was all planned. With Osto gone Montague is the only person who is working on the project now and hence miltary man running around him all the time.



Yeah, but Montague didn't seem to know that until Elenors mag came out of her back and she said a whole bunch of crazy crap about coneetions with Mother.


And is that why the military guy is so worked up about the weapons Montague gives you?

[AUTO_]

OK, I got another bit of info.

This is just something I noticed--and it really has no relevance or is "groundbreaking" in any light.

But, I noticed something during the quest "Knowing One's Heart". I'm not really 'close' on the CALUS situation, but I know the computer CAL seeks an organic body (in KOH).

And there's that duplicate of CAL (the one in SoTH)...

Anyways, during Knowing One's Heart I noticed that the very first switch in the very first room is already activated and is blue.

This is the only scenerio in the entire game where a switch is already "activated".

So, I thought to myself (after making this thread);
'Someone must have been in the Mines before you and Elly arrive'.

Possibly the duplicate of CAL? I wouldn't know why he would be there--but I just thought it was an awkward coincidence.

I'm not positive but a lot of the doors are already pre-opened to.


RUMORS:

-The baby Hildebear in "Forest of Sorrow" is apart of an entirely undiscovered subquest.

-MOME is related to Ash and Zidd.

-There's a picture of a girl on Vol Opt (I actually--think this one is fact...but I don't remember WHAT exactly is on him).

-The crystals in the Ruins are interactive--many rumors have come from the Elysion and the crystals.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

CALUS unlocked the doors to allow Elly to get to him.

Funny that you mention that CALUS was seeking an organic body-- Because that version of CALUS was trying to find an organic body due to Falz' influence. The fact that CAL in Seat of the Heart wanted an organic body says to me that CAL really wasn't being very honest to Elly in Seat of the Heart. Now I'm starting to wonder if the Control Tower has a boss of its own that we weren't previously aware of.

Grr... Now I'm even MORE anxious for the sequel to Seat of the Heart...

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-01-21 09:33, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
CALUS unlocked the doors to allow Elly to get to him.

Funny that you mention that CALUS was seeking an organic body-- Because that version of CALUS was trying to find an organic body due to Falz' influence. The fact that CAL in Seat of the Heart wanted an organic body says to me that CAL really wasn't being very honest to Elly in Seat of the Heart. Now I'm starting to wonder if the Control Tower has a boss of its own that we weren't previously aware of.

Grr... Now I'm even MORE anxious for the sequel to Seat of the Heart...



That would be so utterly depressing, heh. I wouldn't put it past ST to do something like that. They seem to have an allergy to anything remotely happy or nice happening. >P It's all death, despair and Bad Things. Gluh. X_x;

I suppose Ep2 proves that Falz' influence doesn't end after his destruction, unless the D-cellular sub lifeforms are just plain insane period, A.Beast types are always hostile, and the Sinows/Recoboxes/whatever can't shake the infection in their AI programs. Makes me wonder, the quests kind of assume you're doing them before Falz is destroyed. If Calus had managed to hold out somehow until after Falz was defeated, would whatever was hacking him still be at it? If it wasn't, would he have been able to repair whatever damage was done to him?

I like happy endings and the like, though, so I'll just hold to the belief that Cal really does love Elly, and the reason he wants to try to become an organic creature really is to be with her. Of course, he has shown himself to be capable of lying, as he admits to doing so. He does say in the non-Sue subplot ending that he isn't interested in the 'next form of life' and that what he's seeking is to be the same kind of lifeform as Elly, so that he can be with her, but it's entirely possible that he is lying about that. I'm an optimist at heart, though, so until I'm proved otherwise I'm going to believe him. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

</off topic> What IS it with me and Solitaire? I keep glitching it at home and I just -crashed- it here. O_O;;;

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ian-KunX on 2004-01-21 11:19 ]</font>

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-01-21 11:14, Ian-KunX wrote:
That would be so utterly depressing, heh. I wouldn't put it past ST to do something like that. They seem to have an allergy to anything remotely happy or nice happening. >P It's all death, despair and Bad Things. Gluh. X_x;


That's Phantasy Star in a nutshell, my friend.

It's a very dark-themed story, over all. The original Phantasy Star began with the death of the main character's brother-- her only family member still alive. Phantasy Star 2 leaves you wondering if any of the heros survived, in addition to destroying one of the planets of Algol. Phantasy Star 3 leaves you with a promise that Dark Force will return in a thousand years. Phantasy Star IV includes the CALUS-like suicide of the super-computer, Seed, the death of the entire village of Mile, as well as the near-destruction of Motavia. Even the realization that Motavia is continually degrading, and will eventually be uninhabitable-- despite the happy ending resulting from destroying the Profound Darkness.



I suppose Ep2 proves that Falz' influence doesn't end after his destruction, unless the D-cellular sub lifeforms are just plain insane period, A.Beast types are always hostile, and the Sinows/Recoboxes/whatever can't shake the infection in their AI programs. Makes me wonder, the quests kind of assume you're doing them before Falz is destroyed. If Calus had managed to hold out somehow until after Falz was defeated, would whatever was hacking him still be at it? If it wasn't, would he have been able to repair whatever damage was done to him?


Remember that the Dark Falz we fight at the end of Episode I is only *one* physical incarnation of Dark Falz. Dark Falz itself is not a physical entity, but a demon-like conciousness. A god of hate and destruction with no physical form of its own. Killing Red Ring Rico only impedes its progress.

[Robo47]

RUMOR

The reason for the Utimate mode bosses to be different is because in the other 3 you really never fought Dark Falz. And when Pioneer2 begins to descend more creatures pop up.

Da Ral Lie is De Rol Le's child.

Vol Opt v.2 was always hidden and was activated when you destroy Vol Opt 1.

[Kadou]

On 2004-01-21 12:07, Robo47 wrote:
RUMOR

The reason for the Utimate mode bosses to be different is because in the other 3 you really never fought Dark Falz. And when Pioneer2 begins to descend more creatures pop up.

Da Ral Lie is De Rol Le's child.

Vol Opt v.2 was always hidden and was activated when you destroy Vol Opt 1.



Did you just make those up? First off, the changes in Ult were just to keep the game from getting to boring, but.. De Rol Le hadn't completed his course of evolution when you fight him. In Temple Elly tells you that Barba Ray is a simulation of what some of P2's scientists predict De Rol Le will become. Dal Ral Lie is probably just somewhere between De Rol Le and Barba Ray.

As for Vol Opt, it probably attempted to repair and upgrade itself after you destroy it the first time.

[AUTO_]

I suppose that could be true...

Aren't some of Rico's messages different on Ultimate (besides for enemy names)?

[Kadou]

On 2004-01-21 15:16, AUTO_ wrote:
I suppose that could be true...

Aren't some of Rico's messages different on Ultimate (besides for enemy names)?



Never bothered to check. I figured they'd be more or less the same.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Actually, there are indeed some considerable differences in a few of them. I forget the details, but this was brought up a few months ago on the PSDB by A2K. Only five or six really changed all that much, but those that did were entirely different.

[Kadou]

On 2004-01-21 15:38, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Actually, there are indeed some considerable differences in a few of them. I forget the details, but this was brought up a few months ago on the PSDB by A2K. Only five or six really changed all that much, but those that did were entirely different.



Were they significant to the plot or did they just tell you a little info about enemy attacks? I remember accidentally reading one in Forest (almost got killed - offline - because of it) telling me that a Gulgus can slow you down and a Gulgus Gue can paralyze or something. Kind of ironic that it was a few gulguses that were killing me at the time.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Very much relevant to the plot. Maybe not ground-shattering, but Rico expresses her opinion more strongly on certain subjects, and sometimes brings other subjects up entirely. I want to think that one of them even made an indirect reference to Flowen.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2004-01-21 16:32 ]</font>

[Hikara]

How significant are those new messages to the plot? I mean, if it changed it any, that could throw a LOT of us writers off...

I'll just have to go and see sometime later...

[HUnewearl_Meira]

They don't really change anything as I recall, but they do emphasize Rico's feelings, theories and opinions on things. I'll have to get A2K in here to discuss his findings.

[A2K]

Hmm... this thread would be better if we could better separate what's truth and what's rumor. Cite your sources if you can!

The Ultimate message pods are mostly the same, except for two key changes:

- In Normal through Very Hard, in the caves and mines, Rico remarks about the unregistered citizens aboard Pioneer 1. In Ultimate, however, instead of that, Rico explains that parts of Pioneer 1 were to be used in the construction of the Central Dome (that's a confirmation for some of you). However, she noticed that the Dome was 13% or so (I don't remember if that's the exact number) smaller than it should have been? Where did it go? Later, in the Mine, she assumes that it went towards the Mines facilities. They could very well have gone to Gal Da Val as well, but there's no confirmation of that.

- In the Ruins, Rico states that she misses her father. "I wasn't a very good daughter, was I?" etc. In Ultimate, however, Rico goes on to say that her father is very busy, but the Red Ring that he gave her serves as a bond between them, no matter how far apart they are.

Nothing about Flowen, really. You'd think she'd say something... maybe she's just keeping his supposed death out of her mind and pressing forward, I guess.

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-01-22 11:39, A2K wrote:
Hmm... this thread would be better if we could better separate what's truth and what's rumor. Cite your sources if you can!



Good advice, there--nice to separate the hard truth, the implied truth, and the purely theoretical.




Nothing about Flowen, really. You'd think she'd say something... maybe she's just keeping his supposed death out of her mind and pressing forward, I guess.



I hit something yesterday in Ep. II which made me think about this somewhat, which is about the implied date of Flowen's death...(*pauses to check script*) Ah, here it is:

"Based on the log we received while we were traveling, this man had passed away a few years ago on the surface of Ragol." (Natasha, before VR Temple)

So that means Flowen's faked death happened long before the explosion on the surface triggered Rico's explanation--possibly years (anyone have a clue as to how much time passes between Episode I and Episode II?) but certainly *some* time (since the explosion only happened after P2 arrives, and Rico refers to the explosion in her Forest message pods). Rico's therefore probably had some time to come to grips with Flowen's "death" and if anything would be more broken up over the more recent destruction of her entire society than the past death of one man (although one she deeply cared about).

[AUTO_]

Do you guys know what's on Vol Opt?

I could swear reading about a picture on his 2nd form a while back.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Just illegible text. Here's a screen shot from the Dreamcast days.

http://www.angelfire.com/anime5/vangarrett/VOLOPT5.JPG

It scrolls from bottom to top.

[Kadou]

On 2004-01-22 13:42, DezoPenguin wrote:
(anyone have a clue as to how much time passes between Episode I and Episode II?)



I think I read somewhere that it's about six months.

[DezoPenguin]

All righty...I've been trying to think this over, from in-game evidence and what I've seen cited here, and so I figured I'd post a rough timeline of events in PSO. I've left out dates, since most of them are speculative anyway. If there's something I've got wrong or needs more expansion, fill it in, please.

1. Unmanned probes collect D-cellular samples from Ragol and bring them back to Coral. Research project begins into this new form of life, led by Drs. Osto and Montague (Montague being only a kid at the time!).

2. Mags developed by project.

3. Pioneer 1 departs Coral for Ragol. On board are Lab scientists under Dr. Osto, including the Drs. Grave (or Graves--it appears on way in "The Grave's Butler" and the other in Episode II), a strong military force under Deputy Commander Heathcliff Flowen, and a large number of civilians, mostly there as window-dressing.

4. Pioneer 1 lands on Ragol. Materials from the ship are used to begin initial settlement construction. Some materials are diverted to secret government facilities.

5. The Caves--apparently mostly natural--are "shored up" technologically, security doors added, etc. but left intact to preserve resources.

6. The Mines are created, both as a "road" digging down towards the project's ultimate goal (he source of the abnormal Photons) and as a research lab. Vol Opt and Calus installed in the Mines. Control Tower and Seabed constructed as an alternative test site on Gal De Val Island. Olga installed as lab A.I.

7. Osto continues experimenting with D-Cellular life, including Beta772 (De Rol Le).

8. Ruins disturbed by Pioneer 1. Unexpectedly(?) Dark Falz and minions discovered in Ruins. Earthquakes and similar events occur.

9. Pioneer 2 leaves Coral. En route, Montague continues with the MOTHER project, creating Ult and Elenor. Elly Person communicates with Calus.

10. Army, under Flowen, confronts Dark Falz and temporarily defeats it, but suffers horrible losses. Flowen is "infected" by Falz's D-Cellular attacks and becomes a research subject.

11. Flowen's death faked by Dr. Osto. This information is relayed to Pioneer 2 as well.

12. One earthquake frees Beta772 to escape into the underground channel. Dr. Osto moves operations center of Lab to Gal De Val.

13. Dark Falz's return begins to infect the Mines computers, including Vol Opt, with electronic equivalent of the D-Cellular mutations (versatile evil guy, Dark Falz! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif ). Earthquakes and side effects of the continuing battle become felt on surface (Rico's message: "Is it related to the accidents we've felt recently?")

14. Flowen becomes Olga Flow. Although excited by his research at first, Osto is unable to gain the results he wanted from Olga Flow--a human soul is apparently not enough to restrain the D-Cellular evil of what is, essentially, a mega-Mag. (D-Cells and a computer AI to regulate. ^_-) Flowen is dumped down the Test Subject Disposal Site in Seabed.

15. Pioneer 2 arrives at Ragol.

16. Dark Falz creates explosion that eliminates all Pioneer 1 life except for Rico.

17. Rico proceeds on her quest to solve the mystery of the explosion. Pioneer 2 launches recon probes to discover the truth.

18. Rico possessed by Dark Falz to create a physical body.

19. Episode I occurs. Dark Falz is defeated and Rico freed. Whether she's alive or dead after her ordeal is left unconfirmed. Whether Dark Falz is defeated for another 1000 years, permanently dead, or merely slowed temporarily is also unconfirmed. Meanwhile, elements within Pioneer 2, including Black Paper, the Lab, the military, and the Council/Administration concoct various operations of their own with the ultimate goal of capturing the D-Cellular research and exploiting it for their own economic or political ends.

20. Flowen senses the defeat of Dark Falz. Seeking to be released from his hell, he contacts Pioneer 2 (probably able to do this due to the Olga within him).

21. Episode II occurs. Olga Flow defeated and Flowen freed.

One major question I have is, was the whole reason behind the Pioneer Project--Coral's imminent destruction--a reality which was manipulated by the D-Cellular researchers? Or was it entirely fraudulent--wholly concocted by these researchers and their political backers to justify the Pioneer expeditions which said political backers believed would reward them with power behind their wildest dreams?

[Outrider]

DezoPenquin, that post absolutely rocks. If nobody tears it apart, that's the most in-depth storyline we have. And it actually finally sounds like a storyline, and not just fans making stuff up anymore!

Heh.

Um, about Montague being 11 when he helped create Mags... if Newmans reach maturity much sooner than Humans, might 11 simply be an adult age, or possibly even elderly? Obviously I don't know the source, but if they specifically mentioned that he was 11, it was probably to show he was a prodigy.

And I can't post anymore until later, because I gotta run to class.

[A2K]

Someone needs to explain to me exactly how that vortex of life business with Calus, Vol Opt, Olga, and Delta ties into what Montague was doing with Elenor and Ult.

[Kadou]

On 2004-01-26 13:04, A2K wrote:
Someone needs to explain to me exactly how that vortex of life business with Calus, Vol Opt, Olga, and Delta ties into what Montague was doing with Elenor and Ult.



What's a Delta?

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Delta is the caretaker of MOTHER, and the Vortex of Life.

As far as how Dr. Osto's research fits in with Dr. Montegue's research... I dunno. I suppose Navi may have to field this one. Albeit, Montegue does state that Osto was a colleague of his, at some point. Beyond that... I'm not exactly clear. Other than that Ult and Elenor are MOTHER-00 and MOTHER-01.

[AUTO_]

On 2004-01-23 08:27, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Just illegible text. Here's a screen shot from the Dreamcast days.

http://www.angelfire.com/anime5/vangarrett/VOLOPT5.JPG

It scrolls from bottom to top.



His second form.

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[AUTO_]

On 2004-01-24 05:46, DezoPenguin wrote:

One major question I have is, was the whole reason behind the Pioneer Project--Coral's imminent destruction--a reality which was manipulated by the D-Cellular researchers? Or was it entirely fraudulent--wholly concocted by these researchers and their political backers to justify the Pioneer expeditions which said political backers believed would reward them with power behind their wildest dreams?


The planet was detiorating to rapidly to be inhabited...it's mentioned in EpI and EpII.

...

I thought Flowen was alive until you actually *kill* Olga Flow. I thought that the messages (in Seabed right before you fight Olga...some of which are accessed on the terminals--not Cal) were relayed to you in Real Time...that's what Elly says anyways.

I just viewed it as Flowen being alive right until you enter the elevator deal...whether or not Olga *had* him under his power isn't what I'm talking about...I just thought he was still alive.

Sorry for the double post.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-01-26 14:42, AUTO_ wrote:


On 2004-01-23 08:27, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Just illegible text. Here's a screen shot from the Dreamcast days.

http://www.angelfire.com/anime5/vangarrett/VOLOPT5.JPG

It scrolls from bottom to top.



His second form.

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif



The screens are broken in the second form... All of them.

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-01-26 14:52, AUTO_ wrote:


On 2004-01-24 05:46, DezoPenguin wrote:

One major question I have is, was the whole reason behind the Pioneer Project--Coral's imminent destruction--a reality which was manipulated by the D-Cellular researchers? Or was it entirely fraudulent--wholly concocted by these researchers and their political backers to justify the Pioneer expeditions which said political backers believed would reward them with power behind their wildest dreams?


The planet was detiorating to rapidly to be inhabited...it's mentioned in EpI and EpII.

...

I thought Flowen was alive until you actually *kill* Olga Flow. I thought that the messages (in Seabed right before you fight Olga...some of which are accessed on the terminals--not Cal) were relayed to you in Real Time...that's what Elly says anyways.

I just viewed it as Flowen being alive right until you enter the elevator deal...whether or not Olga *had* him under his power isn't what I'm talking about...I just thought he was still alive.

Sorry for the double post.



Let's see. In order:

1. Yeah, I know it says that Coral's environment is deteriorating. It's just that with the amount of under-the-table hanky-panky involving the Pioneer Project and the D-Factor research and MOTHER and whatnot, I'm just wondering if that's all part of the Big Lie. You know, the story fed to the public to approve the mission in the first place, so that no one knows why they're really going to Ragol.

2. Yep, I'd say Flowen is "alive" as well--ok, he's stuck inside the mutated demonic entity Olga Flow, but technically alive. However, a false message that he "died" was distributed from the Lab to the general public and even sent back to Pioneer 2. Check Natasha's various dialogue as well as Flowen's messages--specifically #3 in the CCA for more details.

[A2K]

In the Sue and Kireek version of Seat of the Heart, Elly mentions something about her hometown being destroyed. I wonder if Coral's "deterioration" had anything to do with that? Although, she made it sound as if people were responsible...

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Something to note--

According to Episode 3, Coral's deterioration was due to overpopulation. Hence the need to migrate.

I'm thinking that the Pioneer Project was indeed necessary for the survival of the people of Coral, while the planet was indeed chosen by the scientists for the D-Factor. The government asked them to find a planet, and they said, "This one."

[Eeyore]

There was something about people seeing a girl on the side of Vol opt's second form after you break off some of its parts. I don't think I could see it. I doubt it means anything. It's like when people see animals in the clouds.

[AUTO_]

On 2004-01-27 09:29, Eeyore wrote:
There was something about people seeing a girl on the side of Vol opt's second form after you break off some of its parts. I don't think I could see it. I doubt it means anything. It's like when people see animals in the clouds.



Yes, this was what I was referring to...sorry if you got confused Meira...I actually meant ON VOL OPT's second form.

I'm not positive but I think the image is only in Ultimate...and I think the girl is Rico.

[Thrash777]

I dont know how much of this is mentioned here, but here is my idea on the story: http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=2000044&topic=12489567

[Solstis]

Somewhat off-topic from what is currently being discussed, but anyone else notice how all the symbols on the doors are numbered in PSO-font?

Or at least, I think they're numbered. Then again... I bet everyone already knows that http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif.

[navci]

On 2004-01-26 14:03, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Delta is the caretaker of MOTHER, and the Vortex of Life.

As far as how Dr. Osto's research fits in with Dr. Montegue's research... I dunno. I suppose Navi may have to field this one. Albeit, Montegue does state that Osto was a colleague of his, at some point. Beyond that... I'm not exactly clear. Other than that Ult and Elenor are MOTHER-00 and MOTHER-01.



Osto and Montague both worked on the project of "Creating a new form of life*. When Osto went on Pioneer 1 and Montague left on Coral and later on Pioneer 2 I think they start to work on their life project seperately. While Osto get to play with the D-cells and make monsters Montague went on to make Ult and Elenor. And with Osto gone the government knows that Montague is their only hope to complete this project and hence having him under heavy guard and such.

Yeah, they basically doing the same research.

[Solstis]

On 2004-02-04 17:28, navi wrote:


On 2004-01-26 14:03, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Delta is the caretaker of MOTHER, and the Vortex of Life.

As far as how Dr. Osto's research fits in with Dr. Montegue's research... I dunno. I suppose Navi may have to field this one. Albeit, Montegue does state that Osto was a colleague of his, at some point. Beyond that... I'm not exactly clear. Other than that Ult and Elenor are MOTHER-00 and MOTHER-01.



Osto and Montague both worked on the project of "Creating a new form of life*. When Osto went on Pioneer 1 and Montague left on Coral and later on Pioneer 2 I think they start to work on their life project seperately. While Osto get to play with the D-cells and make monsters Montague went on to make Ult and Elenor. And with Osto gone the government knows that Montague is their only hope to complete this project and hence having him under heavy guard and such.

Yeah, they basically doing the same research.



"Know your place, hunter." I want to stab those cocky guards.

Anyway, lets say that a rati fell off of you (for some reason) and a booma stepped on it. Woul D-Cells, er, contamine everything around them?
Shouldn't you be able to make "Dark" weapons out of ground-up mags then?

[_Sinue_]

Someone needs to explain to me exactly how that vortex of life business with Calus, Vol Opt, Olga, and Delta ties into what Montague was doing with Elenor and Ult. - AK2

I didn't think it did tie into them at all. I know Montegue was on the forefront of the advanced cybernetics feild - probably why he was so interested in his former colluges work. He seemed to know much more about it than he let on when examining the Mines computers in Soul of Steel.

Other than academic interest - I don't think he's associated with Osto's MOTHER project. At least, I don't know of anywhere in the game where there is a connection made.

Also, I doubt that the Pioneer 1 crew knew there were D-Cells on Ragol - even when they landed. From the explanation that Delta gives, the original purpose of the Pioneer Project was to expirmient on using AI intelligence as a core for super-soldiers. Eventually Calus, Olga, and Vol Opt were intended to enter MOTHER's vortex and become a humanoid of some type. That's what the diagram of the "Figure" in the Tower's upper panels represents.

Each AI was supposed to released from MOTHER, and allowed to learn and grow. Eventually, they would CHOOSE to come back to MOTHER at the appropriate time and undergo their transformation. In the mean time, all three AI's were moved to No Mans Mines to help in the excavation and study of the space craft. I beilieve Montegue refers to the Olga AI being moved out of the Mines to a undisclosed location durring the Soul of Steel quest.

After the confrontation with Dark Falz, Osto seems genuinely suprised to find the D-Cells in Flowen's wounds and becomes very excited about their mutagenic properties. He's inpatient, and doesn't want to wait for the full duration of the MOTHER project to get his final results. He used the D-Cells to expiriment on several creatures (Beta 772) and was eventually going to use them on Olga itself. However, after the dismal failure to control these monsters - Osto implants Olga directly into Flowen, in the hopes that an intelligent human core could help make the creation more controllable.

And it worked. Osto was pleased with the results he got, and afterwards dumped Flowen's body down the Bio-Waste disposal chute. I can only use conjecture to guess at why he simply threw away Olga Flow rather than continue study on it. Perhaps the whole reason for starting the Pioneer project was to give them a few good years of isolated research away from the eyes of those who denouced genetic engineering. The imminent arrival of Pioneer 2 carrying civilians would have given Osto plenty of reason to be inpatient with the progress of the MOTHER project - and then later ditch Olga Flow after he had gained enough practical data on the process. Unfortunately, he was too hasty in disposing the creature - as it hadn't stopped evolving quite yet.

You know the rest. Pioneer 2 enters orbit just in time to see everyone from Pioneer 1 (including Osto) devoured by the energy wave. The secret of Gal Da Val was lost, until 6 months (3 months?) later - by which time Olga has grown exponentially more powerful at the bottom of the pit.

Also, while I doubt the unmanned probes detected D-Cells on the planet Ragol.. I have no doubt that they would be able to detect the structure and composition of what lay beneith Ragol's surface. The presence of an alien space ship on a terran world already suited for their needs provided and irresistable temptation for scientists to explore - not to mention the military would be very interested in it's advanced weaponry.

[navci]

I didn't think it did tie into them at all. I know Montegue was on the forefront of the advanced cybernetics feild - probably why he was so interested in his former colluges work. He seemed to know much more about it than he let on when examining the Mines computers in Soul of Steel.



Hi mommy. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif *points to post*
I don't think Montague knows exactly how far along Osto has went with the project after he departed on Pioneer 1. That is what I think why he want to go look it up in the computahs.



Also, while I doubt the unmanned probes detected D-Cells on the planet Ragol..


I think what the unmanned probe did was collect sample of stuff from Ragol. And then bring them back to Coral, and there the samples were analyzed and D-cells discovered.

[Kadou]

On 2004-02-04 18:25, navi wrote:


Also, while I doubt the unmanned probes detected D-Cells on the planet Ragol..


I think what the unmanned probe did was collect sample of stuff from Ragol. And then bring them back to Coral, and there the samples were analyzed and D-cells discovered.



The probe(s) had to have gotten a sample of D-Cells, because MAGs existed before Pioneer 1.

[A2K]

"And it worked. Osto was pleased with the results he got, and afterwards dumped Flowen's body down the Bio-Waste disposal chute. I can only use conjecture to guess at why he simply threw away Olga Flow rather than continue study on it."

If I remember correctly... from the "Bioweapons" data in Seabed, it specifically states that "Gamma 119 went on a rampage and was disposed of at the waste station."

[navci]

I think what the unmanned probe did was collect sample of stuff from Ragol. And then bring them back to Coral, and there the samples were analyzed and D-cells discovered.



The probe(s) had to have gotten a sample of D-Cells, because MAGs existed before Pioneer 1.



Of course. Is what I am saying. Probe collect sample stuff, soil, rock, whatever. Bring it back to Coral. Coral people analyzes and work on it. Found D Cells, then use it to make Delsaber cousins (mag), then government got interested in D cell, decide to launch Pioneer 1. Is what I meant.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Where did we get the idea that MAGs are made from D-cells? I never understood that one. Wasn't Montegue the guy that developed that technology?

[navci]

On 2004-02-05 08:14, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Where did we get the idea that MAGs are made from D-cells? I never understood that one. Wasn't Montegue the guy that developed that technology?



:/ It was in the little bit I translated from the Book. Their core were made from D-cells, then a lot of manipulation and programming to make these "Emotional AI" Osto and Montague both worked on this.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-02-05 10:44, navi wrote:
:/ It was in the little bit I translated from the Book. Their core were made from D-cells, then a lot of manipulation and programming to make these "Emotional AI" Osto and Montague both worked on this.



All right, now it makes more sense. Though, obviously enough, they aren't quite *pure* D-Cell, otherwise they wouldn't be helping you. Sounds more like machines augmented with D-Cells, to give them a little bit of life.

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-02-05 10:44, navi wrote:


On 2004-02-05 08:14, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Where did we get the idea that MAGs are made from D-cells? I never understood that one. Wasn't Montegue the guy that developed that technology?



:/ It was in the little bit I translated from the Book. Their core were made from D-cells, then a lot of manipulation and programming to make these "Emotional AI" Osto and Montague both worked on this.



You know...that explains, in turn, why Dr. Osto was so hellbent on bioexperimentation with D-Cells (i.e. Beta772). Mags, after all, don't go ultraviolent and kill random things; even in the direct presence of Dark Falz they remain on your side instead of teaming up with "Mommy."

Makes me wonder if it was Montague who really carried the load, genius-wise, when Mags were created. Everything Osto made ended up being an uncontrollable monster. Which is why, by the way, I figure that Olga Flow was disposed of as a failure (despite Osto's initial enthusiasm)--Dark Gods Out For Blood are not quite what I'd think he'd want. What good is a weapon that can't be aimed or controlled?

Speaking of which, while we know the D-Cellular lifeforms in the Seabed are products of Osto's research, does the same apply to the ones in the Ruins? Or are these strictly Dark Falz's creations, which are inherently similar to Osto's simply because both are based on D-Cells.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-02-05 11:18, DezoPenguin wrote:
Speaking of which, while we know the D-Cellular lifeforms in the Seabed are products of Osto's research, does the same apply to the ones in the Ruins? Or are these strictly Dark Falz's creations, which are inherently similar to Osto's simply because both are based on D-Cells.


Dr. Osto never got involved in the Ruins, so those were there naturally. Furthermore, Flowen and his party were having trouble with the monsters down there while Dr. Osto was still working exclusively on the Mother project. So therefore, the monsters seen in the Ruins are a direct result of Dark Falz' mutations. It's generally accepted that most of the creatures found down there were mutated from either native animals, or soldiers that ventured in the area.

Altered Beasts in Episode 1, on the other hand, are assumed to be the result of Beta 772's infection. Effectively, the A. Beasts are indeed the result of Dr. Osto's failed experiments.

[Robo47]

For the creatures in the Ruins I think this is right, although some may be wrong:

Dimenians - Booma's

Delsabers - dead Pioneer soldiers

Belra - Hildebears

Claw/Bulclaw/Bulk - Nano Dragon?

[Solstis]

So... if Flowen battled Falz, wouldn't Falz had to have had a host body of some sort? Otherwise, Falz would have been drastically weaker.

Or did the Ruins monsters take care of Flowen and his gang?

... confusing ...

[navci]

On 2004-02-05 13:36, Solstis wrote:
So... if Flowen battled Falz, wouldn't Falz had to have had a host body of some sort? Otherwise, Falz would have been drastically weaker.

Or did the Ruins monsters take care of Flowen and his gang?

... confusing ...



I think Falz keep taking random people's forms. Like, Soldier A, or B, or C. It didn't make him as strong as he could be... and hence he is searching for the best person to posesses.

So. Flowen prolly battled Soldier A. *nods sagely*

[Solstis]

On 2004-02-05 14:21, navi wrote:


On 2004-02-05 13:36, Solstis wrote:
So... if Flowen battled Falz, wouldn't Falz had to have had a host body of some sort? Otherwise, Falz would have been drastically weaker.

Or did the Ruins monsters take care of Flowen and his gang?

... confusing ...



I think Falz keep taking random people's forms. Like, Soldier A, or B, or C. It didn't make him as strong as he could be... and hence he is searching for the best person to posesses.

So. Flowen prolly battled Soldier A. *nods sagely*



*Scratches his chin* Makes sense... thank you o mighty Navi!

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Hmm... Flowen says that what he saw was something going through cycles of life and death, evolving. it very well could have been another soldier, but it sounds to me like, at the time, it'd just taken some sort of native animal, and was trying to optimize its body for itself. Probably a process that it kept going through, until it finally got to Rico.

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-02-05 15:18, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Hmm... Flowen says that what he saw was something going through cycles of life and death, evolving. it very well could have been another soldier, but it sounds to me like, at the time, it'd just taken some sort of native animal, and was trying to optimize its body for itself. Probably a process that it kept going through, until it finally got to Rico.



That might also explain what Flowen meant about how the concept of death didn't apply to "IT." If Dark Falz kept evolving through bodies, dying and repossessing, while the method of really defeating the possessing entity escaped the folk of Pioneer 1.

(Of course, if PSO is set pre-PSIV or is an entirely new continuity, that also might be literally true.)

[A2K]

It's also possible that Rico could have meant by "no body, Dark Falz is a consiousness" that Dark Falz didn't have a corporeal form, as in, he was more along the lines of something made out of energy or some such. When Flowen went to fight it, Falz's, er, "field", you could say, could have enveloped them all in a way as to make him visible and attackable?

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-02-05 16:32, A2K wrote:
It's also possible that Rico could have meant by "no body, Dark Falz is a consiousness" that Dark Falz didn't have a corporeal form, as in, he was more along the lines of something made out of energy or some such. When Flowen went to fight it, Falz's, er, "field", you could say, could have enveloped them all in a way as to make him visible and attackable?



What Rico was trying to say there, is that Dark Falz is not a physical being, but a conciousness. An intelligence without a body. A metaphysical entity. Not technically a form of life, and certainly not an inanimate object.

I would say that it would be consistent to believe that what Flowen saw was more or less Dark Falz evolving a creature, using a cycle of life and death.

[Sharkyland]

O_o I better pay attention to these details for my comic. I'm happy I haven't built the true city structure yet. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif *sees the future and sees self getting hammered by PSO specialists*

[SabZero]

On 2004-01-15 20:50, AzureBlaze wrote:
Berill means 'Mirror' in German, which is somewhat appropriate for this Sinow, except that it functions as the opposite of a normal mirror. It reflects what is behind it to the front in order to seem invisible.

Sorry for picking up an elder post, but this is wrong. "Spiegel" means mirror in german, not Berill.

[A2K]

There's an officially translated version of the Episode III opening up on IGN:

http://media.cube.ign.com/media/552/552369/vids_1.html

Scroll down, it's the one called "the story begins". Meh? It appears that a meteor from the Ragol system crashed into Coral, which was where the basis of Photon technology was found? Did the initial D-Cells come from there, too?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2004-02-07 13:04 ]</font>

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-02-07 12:55, A2K wrote:
There's an officially translated version of the Episode III opening up on IGN:

http://media.cube.ign.com/media/552/552369/vids_1.html

Scroll down, it's the one called "the story begins". Meh? It appears that a meteor from the Ragol system crashed into Coral, which was where the basis of Photon technology was found? Did the initial D-Cells come from there, too?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2004-02-07 13:04 ]</font>


Oh. Please. No. You're telling me that a meteor goes randomly flying out of the Ragol system and sails light years through space, just
happening to land on an inhabited planet which could make use of the materials there to found a technology and eventually follow it back to Ragol where there just coincidentally happened to be a Dark Lord of Evil sealed up by someone. The only way that doesn't make me reach for the Barf Bag of Cheap Narrative Cop-Outs is if Dark Falz was responsible for launching that meteor in the first place (in which case the story becomes one of said sealed evil deliberately leading people to free it--much better than a "gee, whiz" wild coincidence).

Of course, it could be worse. It could be Alis Landale leading a settlement mission outside the Algo system and out of all the possible places ending up in the Copto system with an Evil Demon Lord (Cablon) of its own.

[Sharkyland]

Hypothesis: When the 'coffin' smashes into Ragol, it sent a piece flying...? I haven't looked at the PSO Episode III thingie. I waiting for MARCH to get it's sorry butt here.

[A2K]

I'm not certain where you're getting this "cop-out" mentality, to be honest, DezoPenguin. The people of Coral had to have known about Ragol one way or another before making the journey over. Why not a meteor? It could just as easily be one of other things, but the end result would have been the same.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-02-08 15:58, DezoPenguin wrote:
Oh. Please. No. You're telling me that a meteor goes randomly flying out of the Ragol system and sails light years through space, just
happening to land on an inhabited planet which could make use of the materials there to found a technology and eventually follow it back to Ragol where there just coincidentally happened to be a Dark Lord of Evil sealed up by someone. The only way that doesn't make me reach for the Barf Bag of Cheap Narrative Cop-Outs is if Dark Falz was responsible for launching that meteor in the first place (in which case the story becomes one of said sealed evil deliberately leading people to free it--much better than a "gee, whiz" wild coincidence).

Of course, it could be worse. It could be Alis Landale leading a settlement mission outside the Algo system and out of all the possible places ending up in the Copto system with an Evil Demon Lord (Cablon) of its own.




Soooo you're saying it would've been less of a coincidence if the Corallian government lead a settlement mission outside of the Coral system and out of all possible places ending up in the Ragol system with an Evil Demon Dark Falz of its own?

I'd say that the meteor gives them an immediate reason to search out for Ragol in specific. Some complex calculous could've figured out the general direction from which the meteor came, and they therefore sent their probes in that direction, to search until they found a planet with similar properties to the meteor. It makes good sense to me; regardless of whether Dark Falz caused the meteor's launch or not.

[Nai_Calus]

It also makes more sense as to how they got the D-cells for Mags in the first place, if it just plain got brought to Coral instead of:

Probe goes to Ragol
Probe lands or something, just happens to somehow get sample of stuff
Probe -returns- to Coral, bringing stuff with it

*shrug* Don't mind me, I'm half asleep and bored to death.

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-02-09 07:31, A2K wrote:
I'm not certain where you're getting this "cop-out" mentality, to be honest, DezoPenguin. The people of Coral had to have known about Ragol one way or another before making the journey over. Why not a meteor? It could just as easily be one of other things, but the end result would have been the same.



It's the randomness that gets to me--the likelihood of various events happening. Now, it's a given that Coral and Ragol are within reach of each other or else there would be no PSO. Likewise, no matter how the D-cell information got to Coral, it's a near-certainty, psychologically, that the Coralians would want to go investigate. But consider:

Option 1: One meteor goes flying away from Ragol. Or even several meteors. Without any kind of aim, direction, or intelligent guidance, it happens to hit Coral, an inhabited planet in another solar system (a solar system, moreover, that takes seven years to reach via interstellar travel). That means the meteor had to take the direct course through deep space that would pinpoint Coral, light-years away. The odds against that happening are astronomical (pun unintentional).

Option 2: Coral sends out probes and finds Ragol. Now the odds aren't quite so astronomical. After all, the Coralians wouldn't be sending probes to empty space, they would send them to planets they've previously detected via astronomy. So, given that Ragol is within range of Coral, how many other planets are also within that range? Ten? Twenty? Fifty? It's not likely to be many--and it's very likely that if the Coralians look at every possible planet within a certain range, they'll find Ragol.

Option 3: Dark Falz senses intelligent life out there in the universe (presuming his "sealed" condition isn't absolute) and sends the meteor out to Coral.

Options 2 and 3 result in a reasonable percentage chance of Coralians locating Ragol. Option 1 is so random, so sheer-blind-lucky that the only excuse possible is narrative causality--that it's that way because an External Directing Force (the authors of the story) made it that way. You're more likely to find a random Rappy will be a Pal Rappy that drops a red box that you'd find a meteor flung off a planet by random chance will hit another planet with intelligent life on it.

Narrative causality bugs me. I want things to happen for a reason, not because of blind coincidence. It was the same way back when PSO v.1 came out--I (and most of the people I played with) universally thought it was ridiculous that the Pioneers would "just happen" to find the one world out there that has an Evil Magic Lord sealed underneath it. We all expected there to be some hidden purpose--some reason for them to be there. And lo and behold--there was! The Coralians, it was revealed, did know about the D-Factor and came to Ragol specifically because of it. That makes sense--cause and effect, not random coincidence.

Now, it may not bug you. Heck, it didn't bug people for generations of Western literature--cliffhangers being resolved by deus ex machinas that were never foreshadowed by the plot are a feature of stories dating back millennia. But it really, really annoys me when a vital plot point is determined not only by random chance but by a one-in-a-million longshot. So I'm hoping there's more to this "meteor hits Coral" thing just as there was more to the "Coralians try to settle on Ragol."

[DezoPenguin]

On a completely separate story point (hence the new post) than my previous near-rant, I'd like to offer a quote from the Seabed script which I wrote down yesterday (finally figured out how to get that Bioweapons data entry that you find after the static hits! Woot!):

"Gamma 119 went out of control and was disposed of at the waste station."

So, assuming that Gamma 119 is Olga Flow (and there's no reason to think it's not), then now we know for certain why he's in the Test Subject Disposal Site.

(Now, the question is, did he go "out of control" because he was crazed by D-Cellular infection, or because Flowen wouldn't stand for what was happening any longer, or something else entirely?)

[navci]

Probe goes to Ragol
Probe lands or something, just happens to somehow get sample of stuff
Probe -returns- to Coral, bringing stuff with it



Probe was supposed to go and collect as much data on the candidate planet as possible, right? Ragol is rich with D-cells, right? Naturally samples they got would contain D-cells. In fact, it is said that D-cells is in the very air that we breath on Ragol and this is the reason the Photon Mirages materialize as such beings.

I stand by my probes.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-02-09 11:04, DezoPenguin wrote:
Option 1: One meteor goes flying away from Ragol. Or even several meteors. Without any kind of aim, direction, or intelligent guidance, it happens to hit Coral, an inhabited planet in another solar system (a solar system, moreover, that takes seven years to reach via interstellar travel). That means the meteor had to take the direct course through deep space that would pinpoint Coral, light-years away. The odds against that happening are astronomical (pun unintentional).


I still don't see where you're having a problem with this. The Earth has been hit by major meteors a handful of times in the past, and continues to get hit by smaller meteors several times a year. This (http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/01/24/mars.rocks/index.html) January, 2002 article from CNN.com demonstrates just how common it is for Martian rocks to become meteorites landing on Earth, which scientists here have actually used to try to find clues of life on Mars.

I think you're looking at this from entirely the wrong angle. This meteorite from Ragol that crashed into Coral is the event that sparked the entire plan to colonize Ragol. As a result, it makes nothing a coincidence, because after that point, the Corallians were deliberately looking specifically for Ragol.

Maybe Dark Falz did cause the meteorite, and maybe Dark Falz didn't cause the meteorite. We don't know one way or another, but it really doesn't matter in this context-- The meteor caused the Pioneer Project. Whether it was by random chance or not, is of no consequence-- meteorites are extremely common in the grand scheme of things, and there's no telling how many of these things there were to begin with. As someone commented, they may very well have been created when the Ruins smacked into Ragol. Any fiction requires that some sort of event begin the story, and under that license, anything can be done-- even a meteor striking a planet makes an extremely reasonable "What if...?" situation.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2004-02-09 12:10 ]</font>

[Robo47]

so, what you mean, Meira, is like:

-Ruins hit Ragol
-large rocks are sent from Ragol after the impact
-one rock hit Coral
-scientists find rock
-they find the amazing Photon and D-Cell energy
-they send the probes to find the planet it came from
-probes find the planet
-(this part by me i guess)scientists do something to make Coral deteriorate
-Pioneer project is made


EDIT: Hoo, I went overboard!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Robo47 on 2004-02-09 18:49 ]</font>

[Kadou]

Wait.. How do you spontaneously find photonic energy? Isn't EM radiation photonic energy, and thus when augmented creates photonic tech?

I thought scientists on Coral created photonic technology, not that they found it in a rock.

[Robo47]

On 2004-02-09 18:53, Kadou wrote:
Wait.. How do you spontaneously find photonic energy? Isn't EM radiation photonic energy, and thus when augmented creates photonic tech?

I thought scientists on Coral created photonic technology, not that they found it in a rock.



If you were talking to me, meant the uber-Photons that creates the PB creatures.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-02-09 18:46, Robo47 wrote:
so, what you mean, Meira, is like:

-Ruins hit Ragol
-large rocks are sent from Ragol after the impact
-one rock hit Coral
-scientists find rock
-they find the amazing Photon and D-Cell energy
-they send the probes to find the planet it came from
-probes find the planet
-(this part by me i guess)scientists do something to make Coral deteriorate
-Pioneer project is made



That's one version of the theory.

Though Coral's problem was evidently overpopulation. They may very well have been considering searching for a new planet, anyway. My thought is that the idea of finding a new planet came up, and the scientists said, "Let's look for one with these properties. We specifically want the planet that THIS stuff came from." And thus the shady side of the Pioneer Project was born.

[Sharkyland]

I lost my frigging post and I'm rather pissed.

---

Anyway, the controversy of light being a wave or a photon is still in debate, and it's difficult to decide which is true. It would suck if the photon theory would be thrown out, but currently we don't have the technology to prove it's valid or invalid. Though I wouldn't be surprised if photons were termed to be something else.

Though there is another theory that I have coined up and that is the by accidental. I mean some discoveries have been found to become accidental like penicillin, for example.

(I'm still wondering about the string theory.)

I'm still confused on what D-cell is (I'm always thinking about that damned battery). Stupidity tells me that DNA is built from carbon molecules, but I've heard rumors that DNS can be built from Silicon molecules (or the element that is under carbon).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sharkyland on 2004-02-09 20:37 ]</font>

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-02-09 12:08, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

I still don't see where you're having a problem with this. The Earth has been hit by major meteors a handful of times in the past, and continues to get hit by smaller meteors several times a year. This (http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/01/24/mars.rocks/index.html) January, 2002 article from CNN.com demonstrates just how common it is for Martian rocks to become meteorites landing on Earth, which scientists here have actually used to try to find clues of life on Mars.

I think you're looking at this from entirely the wrong angle. This meteorite from Ragol that crashed into Coral is the event that sparked the entire plan to colonize Ragol. As a result, it makes nothing a coincidence, because after that point, the Corallians were deliberately looking specifically for Ragol.


This part I have no problem with at all. As I said in my second post, and as you point out here, it's very logical that if a meteor carrying the seeds of D-cellular and/or Photon technology hit Coral, that the Coralians would be very interested in finding the source of that meteor. At that point, there's no need for "narrative causality"* to intervene--the course of events follows human nature as we know it quite accurately. The curiosity about what's out there...the desire by different unscrupulous groups to control this new source of power...the tragedies that result from the uninformed and irresponsible use of technology not fully understood. That all holds together perfectly. I haven't a quibble at all about it.

It's the initial event, and only the initial event that annoys me. The fact that the Coralians were, apparently, drawn into this entire cycle by blind chance.

(Look at the examples you cited--meteorites from Mars, for example. Sounds sensible. If Ragol happened to be in the same star system as Coral, then I wouldn't argue at all. Sooner or later it would be inevitable that the Coralians would reach out to Ragol, or Ragol would reach out to it. No problem there. Now tell me how often meteorites from entirely different star systems strike the Earth, and what we've learned about the state of being on their origin planets from them. Not quite so common, I'd wager? And how often are those meteors from planets ones that have evil gods sealed underground in them?)

It's the same reason that my pet theories about PSII have the Earthmen drawn to Algo by Dark Force (or some other Algolian source information)--because I refuse to believe that out of all the star systems in the universe, the Earthmen just happen to come across Algo.

You're right--any story has to start somewhere. I just hate it when the founding premise for such a story is a one-in-heaven-knows-how-many coincidence. I'd rather the story start with something that's likely to happen. I'm not quite sure why my dislike is such a big issue--I mean, seriously, it's not like a flawed story premise ever stopped someone from plunking down cash for a game, and it's got nothing to do with the actual events as they occur on Ragol (which up through Episode I & II have been well scripted and entertaining, and besides which has little to do with a game that's mostly about gameplay anyway). It's just that I happen to dislike narrative causality, and its inclusion in the PSO story would cause me to enjoy said story less as an overall experience.

*"Narrative causality" meaning, as I use it here, "a very unlikely event happens because it would make a good story."

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Actually, most stray, flying objects in our solar system come from outside. It's not uncommon at all for chunks of meteors floating through space to get pulled in by Earth's gravity when they stray close-- so the idea of a meteor from another solar system is no stretch whatsoever. It's true that it's uncommon for an object to just randomly leave from a planet, but given the collision of the Ruins into Ragol, it's understandable that a piece of Ragol would end up in space. Odds are, eventually any piece that escaped Ragol's gravity would hit a planet, and it's also entirely possible that only part of the meteor hit Coral; pulled off by Coral's gravity.

Now as far as the probability of finding the planet of origination... Well, to be fair, the meteor had very unique properties that could easily be sought after by probes. Considering how much more advanced Coral's technology is, I don't see that there's any problem with what they did-- and again, they could probably figure out what general direction it come from, based on how and where it landed on their planet. Calculus does wonders in that sort of calculation.

I don't see that there's any narrative casualty at all. No more than ANY story could have-- let's face it: no fictional story is capable of occuring without some sort of coincidence to bring the events together.

[Solstis]

It's the same reason that my pet theories about PSII have the Earthmen drawn to Algo by Dark Force (or some other Algolian source information)--because I refuse to believe that out of all the star systems in the universe, the Earthmen just happen to come across Algo.


Didn't they have Dark Force in a box (Pandora's)?

So, your pet theory is probably right.

[Sharkyland]

Can someone answer me this quickie question? I need to know so I can get the facts straightened out in my comic book.

1) Pioneer I was built in __?__ years.
2) Was Pioneer II built the same time?
3) After Pioneer I left and made communication back to Coral, and Pioneer II left, what was the time differential in between?
4) How long does it take to get to Ragol?

[A2K]

In regards to Photon technology, I assume that Photon in PSO is not in any way connected to our world's concept of the word.

Another thing, is that Photon weapons seem to be forged in a sense. Ha ha, don't get the whole light saber idea--blade made out of energy that's turned on and off and whatnot... the blade is like that from the start, it's not something that can be switched on or off! Better evidence for this lies in the rarer Photon weapons, like DB's Saber or Flowen's Sword, which are undoubtedly solid, crystal-like dealies.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-02-11 20:45, A2K wrote:
Better evidence for this lies in the rarer Photon weapons, like DB's Saber or Flowen's Sword, which are undoubtedly solid, crystal-like dealies.


Not exactly. The technology seems to relate around using some sort of technology to compress the Photons into a more tangible form. As though it were another state of matter.



On an unrelated note, here's another graphical observation concerning the game--

The Dreamcast version had was appears to be an Atari logo in the city, high above the teleporter down to Ragol. You can see it by walking over to the area with the spot lights, and looking in the direction of the teleporter. On the GameCube version, this obscure reference is abscent. Can anyone confirm this for the XBox?

[Hikara]

Change of Subject for just a moment.

I've had an inkling of a thought that suggested that D-Cells (no matter where the heck they came from...) might have infected EVERYTHING on Ragol, causing some of the native monsters to turn hostile. This comes to mind when Rico says that the Hildebears (well, I'm not sure if it was Rico or not...) were actually kind and friendly animals. Then, the whole Altered Beast thing, and the Machines going berserk... Is this just MY imagination running wild?

[HUnewearl_Meira]

You're probably right, Hikara. The Native creatures would be examples of creatures that've been infected, but not yet gone through any biological changes, whereas the general theory is that the A.Beasts HAVE gone through some biological changes, and the animals in the Ruins have completed their mutations.

[Outrider]

I sort of figured that the enemies in the Ruins were just smaller manifestations of Dark Falz. I mean, I could see them being mutations, but I thought at least some of them were just created by Falz's "evil energy" or whatever.

[Hikara]

Good point, Outrider...

I've also heard ideas that the Ruins monsters are actually "survivers" of the Pioneer 1 that were incredibly infected with D-Cells, thus mutating them, but...

I just need to know all this for a new fic I'm thinking up...

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-02-12 09:34, Outrider wrote:
I sort of figured that the enemies in the Ruins were just smaller manifestations of Dark Falz. I mean, I could see them being mutations, but I thought at least some of them were just created by Falz's "evil energy" or whatever.



In a way, they are indeed manifestations of Dark Falz, but keep in mind that if Dark Falz could make its own bodies, then it wouldn't have needed Rico to begin with.

And Hikara, it's reasonable to assume that some of the enemies in the Ruins were indeed people from Pioneer 1. Some people believe that Delsabers correspond to Hunters, Chaos Sorcerors to Forces, and Chaos Bringers to Rangers.

[Hikara]

Well, thanks for the help, Meira. I'll just get working on this then.... heh heh.

[A2K]

On 2004-02-12 08:08, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
You're probably right, Hikara. The Native creatures would be examples of creatures that've been infected, but not yet gone through any biological changes, whereas the general theory is that the A.Beasts HAVE gone through some biological changes, and the animals in the Ruins have completed their mutations.



But why weren't the child Hildebears affected?

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Obviously, that particular Hildebear hadn't been infected by Falz yet, for some reason. Why that one wasn't infected I do not know, but I hardly see how the young Hildebear in Forest of Sorrow conflicts with the idea that most Native attribute creatures have been affected by Dark Falz, but have not yet experienced any biological changes.

Perhaps that particular Hildebear was sheltered when Dark Falz spread its influence? Rico somehow managed to avoid disappearing when the explosion occured, so why couldn't that young Hildebear have been uneffected in a similar way? Perhaps its mother was off collecting food, and became infected, while its dwelling was outside of the range of effect, much like Rico? Perhaps Dark Falz infection is not hereditary, if biological changes have not taken any effect? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

[A2K]

You can't really liken the Hildebear to Rico, because there was a known reason why Rico was unaffected.

In any case, this isn't really a direct conflict, but I can't really see the monsters in the Ruins being simply modified versions of the pre-existing life, mainly because of Osto's activities on Gal Da Val.

If it were simply "wait and eventually biological changes will occur", why didn't Osto just do that? It seems to me that he put some effort into creating his abominations. Maybe material was used from the animals (proteins, whatnot) but ah, hmm... I think there must be another factor involved.

Flowen's reference to "the substance that creates the sublifeforms"... substance? Whatever it was is probably this extra element missing from the equation.

[PStar2cadet]

On 2004-01-15 20:50, AzureBlaze wrote:


And...I also realize that the Seat Of The Heart people are missing from it. In one of the old updates it said I was going to do a whole SoH sub-section (much like the Soul of Steel one). However, as you can tell, it never got finished mostly because I hate having to do all the offline quests and Bernie-Searching it requires to get both varients of it. This is a reminder I need to get on top of that again....argh.

Or, has anyone here been thru both scenarios in it? I've only done and beaten the first, where you are with Elly the whole time, and Kireek does not appear.





I've done both,the girl with brown hair in the lab when you defeat Gol Dragon,in the hallway near the Guild....i saw a pic on this site for a new download quest.I belive it's Nol,from Ep.1 Journalistic Pursuit,talk to her more when you complete Seat of the Heart,before you collect your money she says maybe she should take up communications and get more personal with machines....i think that's Nol.Also,AT points Sue will talk more about Osto's research,he created the MOTHER project but he abandoned it without finishing it and began something else(I think the Olga Flow project)before he got killed in the explosion in Ep.1...Also,when Elly is at the beach at the end,Sue and Kireek are up on a ledge,there's a warp you can take to go up there,and Sue will talk a bit more about Osto,and Kireek,in reference to Ep.1 Battle Training mission will say 'You have gotten stronger.'i found this out on PSO Plus,and i used PSOworld's walkthrough to do it,and get the Ragol Ring,so you can also use the walkthrough on PSO Plus.

[PStar2cadet]

Oh,sorry but forgot to add,see my sig?Sue says that in Seat of the Heart...she's referring to Natasha Milarose,she ordered Sue and Kireek to keep an eye on the player and Elly....so Natasha of the lab knows some secrets,i think.

[Zzzzzz]

Sorry for going off topic, but, PSO Plus is out in the US?

[PStar2cadet]

No,it's japan only right now,it has an option to play in english,and i set mine to play in english.

[Sharkyland]

I'm still confused on what D-cells are...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sharkyland on 2004-02-13 05:17 ]</font>

[Hikara]

D-Cells are... those one things that infect the Ruins monsters and.... do those one things.

Not good. That's what they are.

[Outrider]

Hmm... about the baby Hildebear. It's not unlikely that the reason Rico survived was because Falz wanted her body, am I right? Heh, perhaps that's the same reason the baby Hildebear survived. Almost as if it were a backup?

Yeah, you can ignore that.

[Hikara]

A Hildebear as a back up body? *thinks*

-----

Hikara walks into the Nearest Place to Heaven, touches the obelisk and awaits the appearance of the dreaded monster only to see.... a baby hildebear?

*Grants*

"You're dead..."

-----

Yeah, that'd be the day... ^_^

[shinto_kuji]

As far as that Atari looking symbol that was in the DC ver., that is actually a (I believe) kanji symbol. Or some other form of Japanese. I'm guessing that since it looked so much like the Atari symbol, it was taken out (maybe for legal purposes?).

And, that whole meteorite theory is a little, er, it could pretty much never happen. Considering that they have light speed technology, or higher, and it still took them two years to go from Coral to Ragol, the chances of a meteorite travelling all the way from Ragol to Coral is near impossible. That long of a distance, plus the fact that there would be literally billions of other gravitational fields along the way for the meteorite to get pulled into, makes it unlikely. Less than unlikely, actually. And even with advanced technology, it would also be impossible to determine where a meteorite came from. They don't just travel in straight lines ^_^;

Anyway, I have a question about Calus. Is the one Elly talks to in the top of the tower, the one in the swirly abyss, the real Calus, or the Calus with the original Calus' memories?

[Kadou]

This may not have anything to do with the current discussion, but it is PSO related, an I figured it might be useful to some people. I present to you,

Kadou's Amazing Theory of Item Capsules

Since the dawn of PSO fandom, fanfiction authors have speculated as to how items fit in the tiny, variously colored capsules, if they did at all. Many ideas have been wrought to explain the unusual phenominon of the item capsule, but none have been able to fully explain how they actually work.

I hereby propose that items do not actually ever exist in their designated capsules at any moment in time. *retains a calm expression, despite many gasps and cries of outrage from the audience*

It is my theory that items are actually stored in the bank(s), in a space that can't be reached in any way short of manually creating an entrance with a blade or explosive. When one uses a capsule, perhaps a button or something is pressed, triggering a warp that exchanges the capsule for its item. It's that simple.

Because of this, items can probably be tracked. Organizations such as Black Paper wouldn't be able to make use of item capsules unless they had their own storage area and warp network. Otherwise, they'd have to carry the actual items around with them.

*bows*

Actually, I think there was originally more, but I forgot most of it.

[navci]

On 2004-02-13 13:48, Hikara wrote:
A Hildebear as a back up body? *thinks*

-----

Hikara walks into the Nearest Place to Heaven, touches the obelisk and awaits the appearance of the dreaded monster only to see.... a baby hildebear?

*Grants*

"You're dead..."

-----

Yeah, that'd be the day... ^_^



Tee hee.
Didn't Rico said something about Dark Falz wanting bodies that can be of use to him? Strong, and such? Alicia did mention the baby Hildebear was very weak and mulnutriented... maybe that is why? Falzy didn't want no weaklings?

Or. The D-cell infection is, indeed infection like a disease, and the baby Hildebear has been seperated from its parents (hence, weak and mulnutriented) that's why it hasn't been infected? Hmmmm

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-02-13 13:51, shinto_kuji wrote:
And, that whole meteorite theory is a little, er, it could pretty much never happen. Considering that they have light speed technology, or higher, and it still took them two years to go from Coral to Ragol, the chances of a meteorite travelling all the way from Ragol to Coral is near impossible. That long of a distance, plus the fact that there would be literally billions of other gravitational fields along the way for the meteorite to get pulled into, makes it unlikely. Less than unlikely, actually. And even with advanced technology, it would also be impossible to determine where a meteorite came from. They don't just travel in straight lines ^_^;


A travelling meteorite has to end up somewhere-- just the same as how a random prize will inescapeably be awarded to someone, even if it has to skip over the contestant with the most entries. If it ends up on an inhabited planet with advanced technology and mathematics, then if that culture finds the contents of the meteorite interesting, they will inevitably try to figure out where it came from. Varying sensor data, as well as advanced mathematics will invariably indicate where it came from. Scientists are more clever than you think, my friend-- After all, we can't see or feel individual atoms or the parts that make them up, but we've been able to prove they're there through indirect means.

I see no narrative casualty here. Is it convenient narrative casualty that while Washington was crossing the Delaware, the captain of the group of Mercenaries was too busy drinking to read the note given to him to warn him of the coming attack? It sure was convenient. Was it narrative casualty when the Japanese just *happened* to attack Pearl Harbor when the military was expecting a group of their planes to come in ahead of an incoming aircraft carrier?

Narrative casualty is when someone shoots 12 shots from a revolver, without ever reloading. Narrative casualty is when James Bond just happens to be given the exact tools he will need, and never anything else, despite a total lack of knowledge concerning what kind of situations he'll be in-- These things are absurd coincidences.

Now, that a story should happen to be founded on the idea that a stray meteor *did* land on a planet, containing properties sufficiently unique so as to make the originating planet easy to find, I don't see that this is an absurdity. It is a catalyst, and it is required for *any* plot or story.

I mean really. You didn't think they just decided they needed a new planet, and accidentally came to an inhabitable planet that just *happened* to have a demon locked away on it, did you? This isn't Phantasy Star Gaiden, after all.

[shinto_kuji]

No, but the idea of a meteor is just too... out there. The chances of someone winning a raffle with one ticket when he went up against a guy with billions of tickets? Just not gonna happen. And they simply wouldn't be able to find out where it came from. There are means to determine things, yes, but what you're asking is for some scientists to find out where a meteor, which came from God only knows how far away, which has been travelling for hundreds of years, came from. That's the same as a rock being picket up by a tornado, launched into a hurricane, landing in the ocean, a tidal wave carrying it conveniently to a scientist, who then determines exactly what spot on the ground it came from.

There's billions of galaxies with millions of planets in each one, so it would be like a man winning the lottery a couple thousand times in one year.

I think they had been reaching out into space long, long before the Pioneer Project. Maybe a probe, or something like that, stumbled on a planet with a rich natural resource (photon), which would be what people of a dying planet would need. So, instead of them uprooting people from their homes for the means of a resource, they disguised it all under the Pioneer Project.

[PStar2cadet]

On 2004-02-13 13:51, shinto_kuji wrote:

Anyway, I have a question about Calus. Is the one Elly talks to in the top of the tower, the one in the swirly abyss, the real Calus, or the Calus with the original Calus' memories?




My opinion,i think the 'blue eyes Calus',is the one with the original memories.The other Calus has purple eyes,and he's constantly trying to keep Elly away from 'Blue Eyes Calus'.I don't think the 'Purple Eyes' Calus is evil,just a bit more logically minded,whereas 'Blue Eyes Calus' is a bit more emotional and more fond of Elly,and alot closer to the true Calus.Remember in Knowing One's Heart,before collecting your meseta,the girl with red spikey hair in front of the guild?She says "a doctor on Pioneer 1 was trying to make an 'independant computer'.His name was Dr.Calus,i heard he died at a young age."....maybe Dr.Calus did something like Brian J.Mason in the original Bubblegum Crisis.Mason downloaded his mind into a computer,the data became the AI for the super boomer Largo.Maybe Dr.Calus put himself into his computer before he died?Weird,eh?

[Nai_Calus]

The Calii(I have randomly decided that this is the proper pluralization of Calus, mainly because 'Caluses' looks and sounds even stupider) actually have green and red eyes. XD "Good" Calus with green, "Evil" Calus with red.

And that's the second time I've come across someone with that theory. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif It's an interesting one, if a bit creepy. XD There are problems with it, though. Wouldn't he remember his former life, for one? Cal refers to Osto as his 'Father'(I'm presuming he means Osto, -he- never mentions Osto by name, but others do- Delta refers to Osto as 'Father' and there are numerous references to the three AIs being created by Osto)... I doubt very much he would do that unless he either had no memory of his former life, or Osto actually -was- his father in real life(Unlikely, who the HELL would marry/have sex with Osto?). Also, wouldn't at least -someone- else know of this? Delta, at least, likely would... Unless you want to get completely conspiracy theory with this and say that Calus -is- Dr. Calus, but not because Dr. Calus did it, but rather because -Osto- did it. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Hmm... Cal seems to have been altered somewhat and restored as a sort of collective entity, kind of like the Borg but prettier. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

'Good' Calus seems to be the mostly unaltered part that has the original Calus' memories and (presumably) personality. He's the one seeking a material form, and the one who cares about Elly. He's willing to give up basically everything he's ever known and risk death for the sake of being with her, though Meira has a theory that he still retains the ill effects of the hacking he suffered before in the Mines, and is seeking a physical form for another reason. He does indeed mention something like this in KoH... "I feel as though I need to seek an organic body. But I don't know why." This is a disturbingly plausible theory, and entirely like something ST would do. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

'Evil' Calus seems to be the rest of the entity. They('Evil' Calus refers to himself as 'we') may or may not actually have access to those memories, and certainly don't share 'Good' Cal's personality. They seem hostile and evil, but are likely acting more out of self-preservation than actual malice. What 'Good' Calus seeks would, to them, indeed be 'death', even if it was successful. They don't have any affection for Elly(Proved by their attack on both of you when you run across them in Spaceship Beta), and do -not- want to assume any sort of physical form. "It would mean abandonment of our nature, and denial of our existence." Regardless of 'Good' Calus' actual motives, 'Evil' Cal seems to be the ones with more sense. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Anyway, regardless of 'Good' Calus' actual reasons, we can't know for certain unless ST makes and releases a sequel to SotH to resolve the unanswered questions. Gods only know when or if this will ever happen. XP

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-02-13 16:44, shinto_kuji wrote:
No, but the idea of a meteor is just too... out there. The chances of someone winning a raffle with one ticket when he went up against a guy with billions of tickets? Just not gonna happen. And they simply wouldn't be able to find out where it came from. There are means to determine things, yes, but what you're asking is for some scientists to find out where a meteor, which came from God only knows how far away, which has been travelling for hundreds of years, came from. That's the same as a rock being picket up by a tornado, launched into a hurricane, landing in the ocean, a tidal wave carrying it conveniently to a scientist, who then determines exactly what spot on the ground it came from.

There's billions of galaxies with millions of planets in each one, so it would be like a man winning the lottery a couple thousand times in one year.

I think they had been reaching out into space long, long before the Pioneer Project. Maybe a probe, or something like that, stumbled on a planet with a rich natural resource (photon), which would be what people of a dying planet would need. So, instead of them uprooting people from their homes for the means of a resource, they disguised it all under the Pioneer Project.



I think you're looking at the odds entirely the wrong way. With billions of raffle tickets, someone will win, because at that point, it would be impossible for someone to not win. If there are billions of opportunities for conclusion, what are the odds that it will not conclude? And remember, Earth is hit by parts of travelling rocks all the time. Every time you see a comet, parts of it are flying off into space, many of which to get to Earth's atmosphere. Every time you see a meteor shower, what you are seeing is dozens of rocks that could've come from anywhere burning up in the atmosphere. Now, if you want to think it's impossible for a rock to come from way off somewhere else, and hit a planet, consider this real-life, meteor-involving coincidence--

At the place I used to work at, we had a Chevy truck that more or less belonged to the president of the company, but was used as a company vehicle. Well, the guy that I shared an office with was the shop manager for the company (we manufactured cheap cabinets), and it was part of his job, to make sure that truck got put back in the shop every evening.

*One* day, *one* time, he forgot to do it, and that night, the truck got hit by a meteor. It left a dent about 3 inches deep, and roughly 4 inches around. It was small, of course, but it left some nice charred paint around the dent. This is real life. Not bad fiction. If a meteor can come from God knows where, and manage to exactly nail my old boss's truck, then for it to randomly land somewhere on Coral is no problem.

And also, do not underestimate advanced mathematics, combined with science. Consider that the people of Coral were likely to have some sort of sensor network in place, monitoring their skies and their planet. We have such in place already. They would've known the immediate direction it came from, and easily could've calculated the overall direction, and thus they would've known what direction to send their probes. Mind you, they sent out several probes, and only one found Ragol.

I still don't see why anyone has a problem with this. Most of the stuff I'm talking about isn't even beyond what could happen to us, right now.

[shinto_kuji]

Most meteors, or meteorites, come from within our own galaxy, though. There's a lot of rocks floatin around, so of course they're gonna hit us. But, to say a single rock flew off of a planet and travelled through who knows how many other galaxies, past trillions of stars and planets, and still made its way to a planet which had an evolved enough civilization to even know what to do with it...

And besides, you actually brought up another problem. Earth gets hit by meteorites every day, quite a bit of them too, yet we don't go out and study every one to see if it has some odd properties to it. Coral would be the same. Not only would the meteor have to be large enough (and the photon strong enough) to survive the planet's atmosphere, but it would have to be important enough for them to even have a reason to study it.

Then again, it is a dying planet so who knows how much of an atmosphere they even had left...

As for Calus, seeing how he originally was just an AI in a bulky computer, I'm assuming he was built by Dr. Calus to help monitor the mines (since that's where he was). But, that Calus then essentially "died". I'm assuming from the hacking by Dark Falz. His memories were then implanted into another computer simply for the sake of Elly (seeing how everyone knows she's a little immature). But, that AI divided over which direction to pursue considering the memories of Elly inside them (which were probably mostly of love). Hence, "good" and "bad" Calus. I'd have to say the "good" one is a little immature (like the original Calus) since he holds the memories, and the "evil" Calus is the sensible one, the logical one.

They eventually are forced to rejoin, simply for the sake of living, but my question is still there ^_^;. Is the, er, entity(?) in the swirling abyss atop the tower, the original Calus (the comp. from the mines), or the one who was implanted with Calus' memories?

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-02-14 11:23, shinto_kuji wrote:

As for Calus, seeing how he originally was just an AI in a bulky computer, I'm assuming he was built by Dr. Calus to help monitor the mines (since that's where he was). But, that Calus then essentially "died". I'm assuming from the hacking by Dark Falz. His memories were then implanted into another computer simply for the sake of Elly (seeing how everyone knows she's a little immature). But, that AI divided over which direction to pursue considering the memories of Elly inside them (which were probably mostly of love). Hence, "good" and "bad" Calus. I'd have to say the "good" one is a little immature (like the original Calus) since he holds the memories, and the "evil" Calus is the sensible one, the logical one.

They eventually are forced to rejoin, simply for the sake of living, but my question is still there ^_^;. Is the, er, entity(?) in the swirling abyss atop the tower, the original Calus (the comp. from the mines), or the one who was implanted with Calus' memories?



I highly doubt it was just for Elly, or even for Elly at -all-, that the backup she made of Calus was restored. She may have searched them out for help, but why do they care about some random newman chick? No, they probably wanted to use him for their own purposes. Sue seems to know something of the Mother project, it seems possible and even likely that Natasha and god knows who else knew as well. Perhaps they wanted the project completed? But that doesn't explain why Calus was modified the way he was, unless they were trying to set up a situation so intolerable for the 'Good' Calus that he would be practically -forced- to attempt what he did.

'Good' Calus and 'Evil' Calus... Well, it depends on the ending what happens with them. With the Sue subplot ending, it... Never really says what happens with them, though they probably do reintegrate, as Calus starts up the 'we' stuff when you see him again talking to Elly. In the non-Sue subplot ending, 'Evil' Calus decides to seperate 'Good' Calus from them and let him choose his own path...

As for the identity of the Calus we meet, it's fairly obvious that it's the restored backup, not the original. The original is 'dead', and has been for presumably some time. I don't know, frankly, how you could get the idea that it's anything other than the Calus you encounter on the VR field and by the computer terminal in CCA. 'Evil' Calus is right, the original Calus no longer exists. He died, and the backup of him was modified when it was restored... Though, much seems to have been left intact. It's debatable as to whether it actually -matters-... It may not be the same Calus, but it has the same memories and personality. And if people are defined simply by their memories and personalities, I suppose that yes, you could say it's the same Calus as the one from the Mines. Calus' memories may be only data, but to him they're all he knows. So who's to say he's not essentially the same? Unless we get into the whole debate of do people have souls, could a -machine- have a soul, and if so does the restored copy of Calus have the original's soul, no soul, or it's own soul? We really, really get into semantics and belief systems here... But for the sake of argument it seems to me to make the arguement that the Calus we see in SotH is essentially the same, but different, from the Calus we encounter in KoH.

As for Calus' origins... Well, he says he was born in the Control Tower, actually. "That's the "Control Tower," Elly. That's where "I" was born. That's where my father passed away." Vol Opt and Olga were also apparently from the same source. Delta says the same thing, that the three were born from MOTHER for the purpose of evolving and eventually returning there of their own free will to attempt to evolve further to the 'next form of life'. Osto is generally referred to as having created MOTHER and Calus, Olga and Vol Opt. Dr. Calus, whoever he was, is only ever actually mentioned once(And then they only bothered to give him a name in the english version). Perhaps he had nothing to do with it, outside of Osto using some of his research, or perhaps he was working on the MOTHER project as well. If he didn't actually create Calus, as seems to be the case, that would give a reason why Calus bears his name... Or perhaps he did create Calus and Osto simply claimed credit for him, which I wouldn't put past Osto either. He seems like the kind of unethical person who'd see no problem with claiming the work of others as his own, and since he was head of Pioneer 1's Lab, he would indeed be in a position to get away with it.

I love PSO. What little story there is is so badly explained and uncertain. It's like the end of the TV seried version of Shoujo Kakumei Utena, horribly open-ended and ripe for fanfics. Sixteen people could write sixteen different things and come up with twenty more each they -didn't- use on the same exact subject. XP

[shinto_kuji]

I know the original Calus died, and his memories were put into another AI. I had forgotten about the backup Elly makes, actually. So let's say that they "evolve" Calus for their own purposes. But, what would it be? Vol Opt was put to keep nosy people from entering the ruins, Olga was Pioneer One's cpu system, and Delta was made to guard that abyss thing, or to guard the research Osto was doing. Before he abandoned it, that is. So, what would Calus be for, if not to monitor the mines as before?

Meh, I always thought it interesting how they did obscure little things here and there to link PSO with former PS games. Maybe the "MOTHER" project was just the Coralians' attempt at a Mother Brain esque thing. To eventually help with all of Ragol's dangerous wildlife, like in the other PS game (PSII?).

So, did Calus' original being/soul go into that abyss thing after he died in KoH? Or, is that the 'second' Calus?

Oh, yeah, the backup would be pretty much like a clone, I'm guessing, but that has nothing to do with everything. ^_^;

[Nai_Calus]

Calus as he existed on Pioneer 2 was used as the Lab's AI system, and seems to have been also in charge of running the VR Field. The original in the Mines that shut himself down to keep from being completely corrupted... It's never really stated -exactly- what he did. It can't have been very exciting, interesting or taxing, though, if he had time and energy to go talking to and apparently falling in love with random Newman girls on the internet, lol.

The original Calus is backed up, and then shuts himself down, thus 'dying'. The one we see at the end of SotH is the second one, from Pioneer 2, the restored backup copy that we've been seeing all along in the quest.

[shinto_kuji]

Okay ^_^. I wonder what it would be like to have someone elses' memories, instead of your own. -.-

I was thinking about a story set when Calus finally wakes up ._.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-02-14 12:56, shinto_kuji wrote:
Okay ^_^. I wonder what it would be like to have someone elses' memories, instead of your own. -.-

I was thinking about a story set when Calus finally wakes up ._.




Well, to him, they would be his memories, regardless of if they once belonged to someone else. He does actually know that the memories he has, much like his personality and basically everything about him, are simply data he inherited from the original Calus. But does it, strictly speaking, matter? Again, we get into souls and the like here, but assuming that either: The original Calus, being a machine, had no soul; or the original Calus, machine or no, -did- have a soul, but this soul instead of moving on or whatever, wound up with the new Calus, it's still the same for him, isn't it? The only real difference outside of 'Evil' Calus' presence is that he exists on a different system than the original. It's the same memories, the same personality, presumably much if not all of the same code, and the original is gone. Why shouldn't he be the same? Why shouldn't those memories now be -his-? Especially since they would be basically all he knew. He would have few experiences of his own, especially when first activated, so of course he would take as his own whatever memories he might have found to look to to figure out who he was and what he wanted from 'life'. What he found were those memories of Elly, presumably one of the few, if not only, bright spots in the original's life. Elly for her part seems to feel it doesn't matter - As far as she seems to be concerned, the Calus we meet in SotH -is- her Calus, the one she was friends with and loves. Technically, she's right... If you take files from one computer that's gone kersplat and put them on another, it's the same files, right? It's just that it's data on a different computer now.

Yeah, considering that knowing ST we'll never get a sequel, a fic set then seems like a good idea(Which is why my own fic will eventually cover that, heh). Especially since you can do whatever you want with it. Happy ending, depressing angsty tragedy, whatever.

Half-slapped together and full of holes as it is, you do have to admit that PSO has some really good story to it. I don't sit around debating the storyline of, say, FFVI, or what really happens at the end of FFVII, heh.

[PStar2cadet]

I agree with alot of these points,however,let me clear this up a bit.i stated i think that other Calus(on my tv his eyes are purple,and the friendly Calus' eyes are blue),the purple(or red,as it is)eyed Claus is NOT evil.In the normal ending he lets friendly Calus pick his own path.So I never said he is evil,and i'm not making that arguement that he is evil at all.I just think he's more of the logical AI side of the Calus 'collective',whereas friendly Calus is more of the emotional side,that wants to be with Elly.That's my view,my personal opinion.

[shinto_kuji]

Yeah, it basically comes down to a matter of spirits/souls etc. I'm assuming machines, or newmans for that matter, wouldn't have souls. But even so, don't you think it would cut the purpose out of living if you knew that you weren't the original person? That you were just a copy of someone else. Even if you remembered things happening, you would know that they didn't happen to you.

It's kind of a difficult discussion topic. If I was a clone, then I would wonder why I wasn't good enough to be my own person, but that's assuming that even a clone would have his own soul. My brain hurts >.<

Well, I wouldn't really make it into a full-blown fic. More like a short story (somewhere around 20-30 pages if it was printed out). You know what would be great? If ST made an offline type RPG that further continued the Calus and Elly romance story. -.-

[Nai_Calus]

Hehe, yeah, just give Elly and Cal their own damn game. XD

And yes, I realise that 'Evil' Calus isn't really evil. It's just a convenient way to refer to him. 'Bitchy' Calus? 'Non-friendly' Calus? 'Logical boring jerk' Calus? ^^; Hard to come up with a good way of referring to him, unless you refer to him as Calus or CALS or something, and the other one as Cal. But then people would still get confused. ^^;;;

Oh, if anyone needs to find out what happens in the Sue subplot version, PSOW just so happens to have a nice nifty script for it. ^_- ...The script for the other version needs work, though, as it has so many typos and the like it's painful to read it... X_x;

[SabZero]

On 2004-02-11 19:02, Sharkyland wrote:

3) After Pioneer I left and made communication back to Coral, and Pioneer II left, what was the time differential in between?
4) How long does it take to get to Ragol?

Yesterday I watched the intro on Dreamcast V2, and it states that they finished building the central dome, and seven (7) years later, Pioneer 2 arrives at Ragol...

So I'd say it takes 7 years of travel.

[Nai_Calus]

It's two years. The woman outside the warp to the principal's office states one of the times you talk to her that it's been two years since Pioneer 2 left home. Unless 'home' is a completely random place in the middle of space, she means Coral. I assume it took the remaining 5 years of time between P1's arrival and P2's to build/prepare/whatever. *shrug*

[PStar2cadet]

On 2004-02-14 14:03, Ian-KunX wrote:


Oh, if anyone needs to find out what happens in the Sue subplot version, PSOW just so happens to have a nice nifty script for it. ^_- ...The script for the other version needs work, though, as it has so many typos and the like it's painful to read it... X_x;



Myself i'm doing a fan-fic series that i'm submitting for this site, 'PSO Plus' I'm currently doing Seat of the Heart,as well as Central Dome Fire Swirl,East Tower and West Tower,and with SotH,i'm doing the variant that has Kireek and Sue.I did that on my PSO Plus game,it was pretty cool.The main thing is to have fun writing the fic.I submittted 'Seat of the Heart Part 1' yesterday,hopefully it'll be posted later this week.

[SabZero]

On 2004-02-15 07:24, Ian-KunX wrote:
It's two years. The woman outside the warp to the principal's office states one of the times you talk to her that it's been two years since Pioneer 2 left home. Unless 'home' is a completely random place in the middle of space, she means Coral. I assume it took the remaining 5 years of time between P1's arrival and P2's to build/prepare/whatever. *shrug*


Ah, yes. I watched it again and it's seven years between the start of building the central dome and the arrival of Pioneer 2...

[A2K]

You know, the thought of a meteor doesn't seem all that unlikely if you perhaps consider the possibility that it... wasn't the only one. The meteor in question might have been caused by some impact that caused debris to fly off in all directions--

[Solstis]

So, who else thinks that Coral is still there?

Since, apparently, not everyone left, and Pioneer 3 (there is one, right?) didn't leave too long ago, Coral probably hasn't blown up.

And if they knew the location of Algol, I don't think that MUUT DITTS POUMNN (sp?) would have confused Rico that badly.

Then again, there is no Palma, and Motavia (motabia) is probably a desert, and Dezoris was always ice.

Side note: isn't the 4th planet spelled oddly like "Ryuker?"

[Outrider]

I'm sorry, they do know of Algol? Are you sure?

Also, what happened to Pioneer 3? Is it mentioned in Episode 3 somehow? Eh... come to think of it, I'd rather not know. The whole reason I'm gonna get the game is for the story.

[A2K]

^ Well he said "if"...

The fourth planet is Ryucross, or Rykros, depending on how you want to Romanize it. I don't think there's any connection to Ryuker, although, I suppose there could be.

And Pioneer 3 is mentioned by Paganini in Gallon's Shop after you trade some photon drops to him for something. To him, though, it seems to be only a rumor and nothing concrete.

There's a more accurate script for SotH here: http://psoscript.netfirms.com/

I was actually planning to go back and make a video of that ending again when I found the time.

[PStar2cadet]

On 2004-02-16 20:34, A2K wrote:


There's a more accurate script for SotH here: http://psoscript.netfirms.com/

I was actually planning to go back and make a video of that ending again when I found the time.



I'm so glad to know i'm not the only one who video tapes PSO,or video games in general.^_^Made a video tape for a friend of mine recently,he's played Central Dome Fire Swirl back in the DC days,so I made him a video tape of my import PSO Plus with Fire Swirl,SotH(With Kireek as my partner)and East Tower.^_^()

[A2K]

Hee hee, I meant using a capture card, but fear not--I do actually happen to know someone who actually video tapes playing PSO.

[Robo47]

Has the "How old is Rico and Flowen" been asked already?

[Outrider]

Oh, I know Paganini mentions Pioneer 3. I was just wondering if it was mentioned anywhere else.

[AUTO_]

On 2004-02-17 10:45, Outrider wrote:
Oh, I know Paganini mentions Pioneer 3. I was just wondering if it was mentioned anywhere else.



Yes.

Mentioned this in my first post.

Look behind the tekker at the main screen--a red dot on it flashes every 3 or so seconds that says "Pioneer 3".

[Outrider]

Err... but that doesn't really tell us anything about Pioneer 3. Then again, it's not that important. Forget it.

[Hikara]

Sure it does! It says that it's coming, and that it's *insert distance here* away.

[AUTO_]

Yeah because Ragol is in the pic to.

I think it's just outside Ragol...

Which...is confusing.

[A2K]

You sure that it doesn't say "Pioneer 2" ? Or that the planet isn't Coral? Either/or...

[DezoPenguin]

I thought it looked like "Pioneer 2," myself (showing the ship's orbit around Ragol, I suppose).

[AUTO_]

I guess it's just inferring then...

I think it looks more like a 3 then a 2.

It's displayed on numerous screens on P2 (such as the screen directly in front of the scientist behind the desk)

[Aceizace]

Wow! So many posts!

Hey i just wana say some stuff about d-cells and that whole human -> ruins monsters theroy.

When falz broke free and killed so many people, he injured flowen. Flowen's body was infected with d-cells, these were from where falz had injured him. Osto, the greedy *rude word*, takes flowen and asks if he will be an experiment. Flowen accecpts on one condition: that pioneer 2 is told not to come to Ragol. Of course osto takes both sides of the deal, uses flowen, but doesn't even delay pioneer 2. He takes the d-cells from flowen's body, and turns them into monsters, hoping to make super powerful weapons for the millitary. Of course this didn't work, and spawned the monsters you see in the ruins and seabed. Dr Osto tried to use the remains of Flowen with the remaining AI, Olga, in a last attempt to make an ultimate weapon. Again this backfired, creating Olga Flow. *insert spooky music here*

The theroy about hunters forces and rangers being the human-like creatures in ruins is intresting, and could be because they were trying to make some that were easier to control.

Any way thats my take on all this, from what i've read from different sources. Hope that clears up a few things.... although i realise it's probably made things a lot more confusing. Sorry! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Sord]

On 2004-02-18 18:11, Aceizace wrote:
Wow! So many posts!

Hey i just wana say some stuff about d-cells and that whole human -> ruins monsters theroy.

When falz broke free and killed so many people, he injured flowen. Flowen's body was infected with d-cells, these were from where falz had injured him. Osto, the greedy *rude word*, takes flowen and asks if he will be an experiment. Flowen accecpts on one condition: that pioneer 2 is told not to come to Ragol. Of course osto takes both sides of the deal, uses flowen, but doesn't even delay pioneer 2. He takes the d-cells from flowen's body, and turns them into monsters, hoping to make super powerful weapons for the millitary. Of course this didn't work, and spawned the monsters you see in the ruins and seabed. Dr Osto tried to use the remains of Flowen with the remaining AI, Olga, in a last attempt to make an ultimate weapon. Again this backfired, creating Olga Flow. *insert spooky music here*

The theroy about hunters forces and rangers being the human-like creatures in ruins is intresting, and could be because they were trying to make some that were easier to control.

Any way thats my take on all this, from what i've read from different sources. Hope that clears up a few things.... although i realise it's probably made things a lot more confusing. Sorry! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Umm, Falz never really broke out. Flowen was like a guard for the miners or what ever digging up the ruins. Falz never got loose, they just stumbled upon him. I'm oretty sure of this, except the guard part. I think he might have been investigating the ruins. I can't remember how he wound up with the people who discovered Falz.

[Aceizace]

Oh, and about the whole 'theres no way it could be a meteor' thing. I'm with HUnewearl_Meira, of course it could happen.

I mean think about it, lets say the meteor(s) were flung by the ruins hitting ragol, as quite rightly noted earlier, that'd make thousands if not hundreds of thousands of meteors. Quite big ones two i'd imagine.

You've also got to remember just how many planets there are out there, its near cetain that there is life somewhere other than earth in real life. I don't know much about pso history, having not played the other games, but newearls are not human, are they from another planet? someone fill me in. Either way i'm positive theres going to be more than one planet with life, and maybe those metors hit a different planet with life, well then maybe that planet would be the focus of pso then?

It's a bit like saying that.. i dunno, (someone mentioned james bond earlier), James bond is totaly unbelieveable because it just so happens that he got into the secret service, i mean what are the chances of that? Just think how many sperm were competing to be where you are now? Its damn near impossible, millions to one, that any of us are here, but we are.

If dark falz had contacted coral or something, and said 'this looks like a worthy plannet, come to ragol' then i'd accecpt your point, it's no story starter. But the fact is that the story started with a meteor hitting coral, and prehaps it was so big they decided to check it out, or maybe, far into the future, they check out all meteors? Who knows? Either way, the story says that a meteor hit the plannet, and they investigate where it's from.

Ever heard of Ranma 1/2? It just so happens that Ranma goes to the cursed springs, it just so happens that he falls in spring of drowned girl, and meets loads of people that have as well. Its not likely, but it doesn't make the story any worse does it? You take a look at the next few films you watch and think about how likely the starting point was. Of course its not likely, if it was likely everyone would be doing it and it wouldn't be much of a film would it? You'd've seen it in your everyday life. Its unlikely things that make main characters in films and games, you're going to have to live with that!

Sorry, i ranted for too long. It's 2.30am here and i'm off to bed. Matta ne.

[Robo47]

Maybe Falz sensed someone on Coral that was a descendent of Alis Landale? And controlled Dr.Osto from long distance?

[zimmk2vgc]

On 2004-01-17 11:49, navi wrote:

I'd like to think that it is an illusion Falz provide you with so it can scare the heck out of you when you wander innocently into his tomb and *gulp* you are eaten! w00t!

I agreed with whoever said Central Dome is prolly P1 took apart and built it with P1 material. Would also make lots of sense. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Okay. MAG and the info about them!
MAG was developed by Dr. Osto Hyle and Dr. Jean Carlos Montague. (back when Montague is 11! He was telling the truth when he said he's a genius) MAG project is the first project that started to use the D-cells that collected from manless probe from Ragol. The idea is that they have found this new lifeform/substance, the D-Cells from Ragol... which is how the whole conspiracy started. Pioneer 1 WANTED to go to Ragol because they found this substance, not because it's a real paradise as they want people to believe. They wanted to mine this planet and further research the substance.

... I went off topic. Anyway. The MAG project (used capital letters to show the subject being talked about here)is the first to develope a new form of life. Mags' core has D-cells in it, over the top they slap a metal shell covering it, and the "Emotional AI" regulates the D-cells... it is the first machine and organic fused life forms. They evolve with medical items and will change into different forms, as we all know.

So essentially, Mags are Delsaber's cousins, so to speak. You can also say it is Falz's cousin. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif This leads to why the Photon Mirages look the way they do. On Coral if the Mags were to have a Photon Blast it doesn't actually take a distinct shape as it is on Ragol. It is said that they do on Ragol because of the D-cells density on the planet, the.. "abnormal photons" as Montague said. If you look at the Photon Mirages carefully you will see they do resemble the Dark enemies, only that their body is light in colour. They share the same roots. The reason they do look different is probably because the D-cells in Mags have been worked on by human, engineering in a different way and hence it alters the mirages somewhat.

The Mag project is the first step of Project MOTHER. Its sucess is required before they go on researching about more complicated lifeforms that could possibly be created with the D-cells.

*whew*



Sorry for going back a bit, this bit is of particular interest to me.

So if the PB's go back to the roots of the dark creatures. What resembles what?

Here is what I presume:
Golla-Chaos Bringer
Pilla-Falz (Heaven's Punisher move)
Moulla and Youlla-Delsabers?
Leilla-Falz (the wings in phase 3)
Farlla-?
Estlla-?

This of course could be completely wrong. Another theory that has been posted here is that the creatures in the Ruins are the mutant forms of P1's crew. If that is so, do the PB's resemble the different hunters

Golla-Hunter(close range)
Farlla-Hunter(close range)

Moulla and Youlla-Force (Techs)
Leilla-Force (Tech)

Estlla-Ranger (long range attack)
Pilla-Ranger (attacks things high up, like with a gun=ranger)

I think there is some relevance, but then again, I have no idea.

[PStar2cadet]

On 2004-02-18 18:16, Sord wrote:



Umm, Falz never really broke out. Flowen was like a guard for the miners or what ever digging up the ruins. Falz never got loose, they just stumbled upon him. I'm oretty sure of this, except the guard part. I think he might have been investigating the ruins. I can't remember how he wound up with the people who discovered Falz.

[/quote]

Well,if you beat ep.1 in Ultimate mode,it shows a pic during the end credits of Rico at the Dark Falz obelisk,and wasn't it Rico who originally activated the columns and undid the seal,not knowing Falz was there?Also,i though one of Flowen's messages was hinting that Rico was with the excavation team that went down to the Ruins with Flowen....they thought it was ruins of an ancient civilazation,they didn't know it was the ruins of a spaceship...thought i saw a faqs somewhere on gamefaqs.com that the ship is the remains of Alisa 3...

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-02-19 07:10, PStar2cadet wrote:


On 2004-02-18 18:16, Sord wrote:



Umm, Falz never really broke out. Flowen was like a guard for the miners or what ever digging up the ruins. Falz never got loose, they just stumbled upon him. I'm oretty sure of this, except the guard part. I think he might have been investigating the ruins. I can't remember how he wound up with the people who discovered Falz.



Well,if you beat ep.1 in Ultimate mode,it shows a pic during the end credits of Rico at the Dark Falz obelisk,and wasn't it Rico who originally activated the columns and undid the seal,not knowing Falz was there?Also,i though one of Flowen's messages was hinting that Rico was with the excavation team that went down to the Ruins with Flowen....they thought it was ruins of an ancient civilazation,they didn't know it was the ruins of a spaceship...thought i saw a faqs somewhere on gamefaqs.com that the ship is the remains of Alisa 3...

[/quote]

No--remember that Rico made a separate trip down to the Ruins after the explosion wiped everyone else out. The Ultimate-ending scenes are of Rico's investigation. Essentially, she does exactly the same thing the player characters do, except that instead of fighting Dark Falz she gets possessed by it (which, especially in light of Flowen's logs from the Seabed, appears to be exactly what Falz's intent for her was.

For further confirmation, remember that her message pods all indicate that she's discovering the ruins after someone's already been there (the wreckage of the weapons in Ruins 1--"seems like our army was hurt badly" and so on, for example).

[Solstis]

On 2004-02-18 20:41, Robo47 wrote:
Maybe Falz sensed someone on Coral that was a descendent of Alis Landale? And controlled Dr.Osto from long distance?



Well, since Falz is always trying to stick it to the Ragolians, it is possible.

[Polar]

On another note - although I can't wait to complete ULT and see this, I had no idea - if MAGS have been about for ages, and are given to all hunters, etc etc...
Why do NO NPCs have them? NONE. Only Elenor, and she has her own reasons. The Player is the only character in the whole game to have a mag - but it is clearly states that all hunters on passing their exam or whatever are given mags. Even in Seat of the Heart - which has, really, loads of equivalent Players - nobody has a mag.
Either MAGs have only just been developed, or something's up.

[Outrider]

I think that's more of a gameplay thing, but it would be nice if there were an official story reason for that. Actually, it would be nicer if they just had mags. (Didn't somebody in General say they didn't have them because they just have their stats boosted anyway? I dunno, maybe I'm making this up.)

[Sharkyland]

Educated guess time...

---

- Remember the quest with the guy who thinks he can make riches with the new idea he's thinking and the one he calls idiotic hunter (first question with Elenor). Well, considering it's a new trend, do you think Pioneer 1 didn't have this available to them? So it might be possible the mags were rare back then (or probably being researched)... I dunno this is my guess on why not a lot of people want mags probably that's the reason why on most of the quests when you have to fight people, they are somewhat on an obsene level and you can kick their butts with just a little-bit low leveled you and your trusty MAG?

---

- So you guys think that D-cells were from Ragol? I'm thinking of the meteor things is a pretty neat idea and stuff, but well... how would someone plan a tragectory when a planet is rotating on it's axis and revolving around a star. I mean yeah, high unreasonable. My only solution to this is that satellites were sent a long time ago... one equipped with energy readings and found oh, happy, Ragol. What do you think now?

---

- Basically D-cells are generally forms of high potent energy, right? I mean, I can see some relationship between lovely ruin mosters and photon blast mags... I read something earlier in the forums about Flowen absorbing D-cells (could be cancerous, deadly, or turns him evil... so it's definitely not good for the human/newman/android? [Kireek get possessed by D-cells?] body)... hmm, now I forgot my train of thought.

---

OTHER NOTES: I haven't gotten to certain points in my comic where might do my own interpertations on these types of materials though when I begin chapter II, it's going to have some kind of twist ot it, but I think people want me to finish episode 0 first. I would like to discuss these certains before I get flamed. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sharkyland on 2004-02-19 21:23 ]</font>

[AUTO_]

As for NPC's not having Mags...

I think it's just a gameplay issue or ST being lazy.

I would guess ST just wanted to have as little of information floating around (during gameplay) as possible...but I can't be certain.

[Outrider]

On 2004-02-19 21:16, Sharkyland wrote:

- So you guys think that D-cells were from Ragol? I'm thinking of the meteor things is a pretty neat idea and stuff, but well... how would someone plan a tragectory when a planet is rotating on it's axis and revolving around a star. I mean yeah, high unreasonable. My only solution to this is that satellites were sent a long time ago... one equipped with energy readings and found oh, happy, Ragol. What do you think now?



It's not so much an opinion. It's been stated. In either Ep III or translated materials.

[Sharkyland]

Do they have a translated material from the Book of Hunters and the other artbooks online? I know I have information and if anyone knows Japanese I could scan it for them. 12 more days till Episode 3 comes out (damn you leap year)!

[Hikara]

Seeing as how Episode 3 comes out in the US in 8 days, does anyone know the general storyline behind it? I attempted a fic, but it got shot out of the air when I realized I was doing it wrong... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

And what is the importance of Break, anyway?

[Solstis]

It seems to me that Meira and the others gave up explaining.

D-Cells involve Dark Falz corruption... they wouldn't come from anywhere else but Ragol.

As for a meteor randomly hitting Coral... who says that it's random? And not to mention this is Phantasy Star: a series where a ship can go back into time, pick up Falz, and do a bunch of crazy stuff.

The profound darkness has a lot of pull in the universe, it wouldn't be unexpected.

Mags would also require D-Cells, which would mean that they are relatively new, but P1 had them.

Why? Because you find them in BOXES that P1 left behind.

....

[Sharkyland]

On 2004-02-23 09:40, Hikara wrote:
Seeing as how Episode 3 comes out in the US in 8 days, does anyone know the general storyline behind it? I attempted a fic, but it got shot out of the air when I realized I was doing it wrong... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif And what is the importance of Break, anyway?

Check the Episode III forum... navi put up details on character backgrounds. Look for 'Story'.

[shinto_kuji]

Does anyone know some Black Paper member's names/appearances? I know there's Sue and Kireek, and that one Ramar, but I forgot his name. And I know there are more than that, that ST included in some quests. Appreciate it!

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-02-25 12:43, shinto_kuji wrote:
Does anyone know some Black Paper member's names/appearances? I know there's Sue and Kireek, and that one Ramar, but I forgot his name. And I know there are more than that, that ST included in some quests. Appreciate it!



Sure! Glad to help.

Gekigasky (RAmar, blond, face mask, orange&black) -- appears in the Mines in "Dr. Osto's Research," fights you alongside Anna in the first room of "Waterfall Tears," and hangs out near the Check Room in...grr...either "Unsealed Door" or "Black Paper."

Tonzlar (RAmar, redhaired, plump, carries a Partisan) -- fights you in DOR and BP, laments about being a lookout for "the daughter who might betray" in WT.

Tobokke (HUmar, mohawk, blue/gray outfit, carries a saber, also uses Barta) -- stands around in WT, fights you in BP.

Doronbo (RAmar, dark blond hair) -- reveals himself to be a real moron in "Letter from Lionel," and appears talking with Mujo and Kroe in BP (where he's eventually sprawled on the ground at the end).

Mujo (FOnewm, spiky black hair, purple outfit) -- he's apparently the guy known as "Black Paper" in BP, although it's revealed that in fact Black Paper is a syndicate rather than an individual at the end of that quest by Hopkins. He's found sprawled at the end as well.

There's some question as to whether Zidd (the client in "Battle Training") or even Bernie would be Black Paper members (Poor Zoke if Bernie is!), but no confirmation there.

You know, I really miss how on the DC version you could use Word Select offline to see the names of various NPCs.

[shinto_kuji]

Ah, great. Thanks for the info.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-02-25 13:25, DezoPenguin wrote:

You know, I really miss how on the DC version you could use Word Select offline to see the names of various NPCs.




Uh, you still can. O_o; Hit y, go over to word select, bam. Any NPCs on the map somewhere at the moment, you can word select at, offline and online.

[A2K]

I don't think Zidd (Ash's cousin, is that right?) is involved with Black Paper, as he seems rather intimidated by Kireek. If he were involved in the organization he would probably know the HUcast's true nature.

Bernie? Hmm... I don't think--

This is all just speculation anyway, though.

[Outrider]

On 2004-02-25 18:47, Ian-KunX wrote:


On 2004-02-25 13:25, DezoPenguin wrote:

You know, I really miss how on the DC version you could use Word Select offline to see the names of various NPCs.




Uh, you still can. O_o; Hit y, go over to word select, bam. Any NPCs on the map somewhere at the moment, you can word select at, offline and online.



Actually, sometimes you can't. I think it's on Pioneer 2 that you can't check their names... if not all the times, then sometimes at least. For instance, that red-headed NPC you see in a bunch of early quests? Can't check her name.

Or maybe I'm wrong, and I really need to get back to my GCN and play some PSO.

[shinto_kuji]

Well, you just can't check the names of NPC's that are set into one of the general NPC walk paths. If that made any sense at all. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[A2K]

The thing about those particular NPCs, though, is that you couldn't check their names on Dreamcast, even, heh.

[Hikara]

I feel like a dork asking this question.....

Alright, Is IDOLA actually in PSO, or is it just the title of the song?

[A2K]

Nah, nothing is explicitly called IDOLA in the game. I think I already went over this, but "idola" is a word that means apparition or phantasm--a ghost or spirit of some sort? Which seems to fit Dark Falz's description pretty well.

Pray, for "IDOLA" the distorted
Cry, for "IDOLA" the holy

In Olga Flow's case... the word could be applied as more of a metaphor on Flowen, really.

"IDOLA" have the immortal feather
"IDOLA" have the divine blade

And, I have no clue exactly how to apply it to Episode III quite yet. The way those bosses appear, though, kind of ghostish, I guess.

"IDOLA" the strange fruits

[Polar]

On 2004-02-26 05:06, A2K wrote:
I don't think Zidd (Ash's cousin, is that right?) is involved with Black Paper, as he seems rather intimidated by Kireek. If he were involved in the organization he would probably know the HUcast's true nature.

I'm fairly sure he's not, as at the end of one of the plot arcs he gets beten up (killed?) by Kireek in From The Depths. I some of the credits you also see him getting chased around VR Temple by Kireek too.
EDIT: Oops, Zidd, not Kireek. Umm, I remember something linking him to Black Paper, but it may have been a fanfic. The whole "data disk" thing from battle Training seems a bit suspect lol.

On another note, what's with the girl Bernie seems to be looking for in all his quests?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Polar on 2004-03-03 05:05 ]</font>

[A2K]

No, no, Zidd doesn't appear again at all after Battle Training. You're thinking about Ash, the HUmar, Zidd's cousin.

And Bernie finds the girl at the end of Gran Squall... later on he only comments about meeting for his partner or something--presumably Zoke Miyama.

[Outrider]

Zoke has a last name? Eh... that might've been good for when I was writing my fic... oh well.

[DezoPenguin]

Whoops! Thanks, Ian-kun; it never struck me to just whack the gray button to call up WS from the keyboard menu; I kept trying to scroll to it with the L and R buttons and, of course, just flipping between keyboard pages. *sigh*

And with regard to Bernie and the girl...have you noticed that it makes more sense if you play the WEAPONS quests in order? That is, he's looking for Rupika in Secret Delivery, can't find her ('cause it's Elenor down there), and has to pick her up later in Gran Squall, where he eventually finds her. And he never seems to recognize you in Secret Delivery even if you play Gran Squall first (though he does say he's not so good in the memory department, to justify any slips).

Last question--I noticed that in the download Ep. III quest, "Bullet of Future Assassin," you have to duel against Kireek. Is this the real Kireek, or is it only in VR--and if it's real, doesn't this imply that the Bernie/Sue side rather than the Soul Eater side of the subquests is the "real" one (so Kireek doesn't go crazy/possessed)?

[Nai_Calus]

*blink* I would think the alternate endings to both Soul of Steel and Seat of the Heart that come with the Sue/Bernie subplot would kind of remove all doubt of that well beforehand... o_O;

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-03-04 12:05, Ian-KunX wrote:
*blink* I would think the alternate endings to both Soul of Steel and Seat of the Heart that come with the Sue/Bernie subplot would kind of remove all doubt of that well beforehand... o_O;



It's the word "alternate" in that sentence that actually points it out. The Soul of Steel and Seat of the Heart alternate endings feed off the Sue/Bernie subplot, but they're just that, alternate.
They just make one subplot longer (and a heck of a lot more interesting) than the other one.

Technically, there were three possibilities: "Soul Eater" is "real," "Sue/Bernie" is "real," or both are alternates and the "blunder through without getting either storyline" is "real." If Kireek appears in a "mainstream" role in an Ep. III quest, though, it renders it impossible for the "Soul Eater" side to be "real," so far as the mainstream continuity goes.

(And means one more of my fics bites the continuity dust. "Black Hound" was a Kireek vignette set just before "Waterfall Tears" in the Soul Eater arc. *sigh*)

[A2K]

That's assuming that Kireek actually does die there in From the Depths, or he isn't rebuilt, and/or obtains another Soul Eater. I mean, I suppose it's possible that it wasn't the end for Kireek there and therefore it's possible that ALL THREE situations may be true. *shrugs*

[Nai_Calus]

How the hell old -is- Ragol? Either we only see one continent of it in Ep3, it only HAS one continent, or... Something. And half the outdoor areas in PSO keep having me expect to see dinosaurs or something. ...Well, why not? We have giant mosquitoes. X_x; I dunno, half of it just looks like something out of a book about dinosaurs and all those old extinct plants and stuff.

On another note, Gal Da Val is freaking huge, from the map in Ep3.

[navci]

For people who don't get to, or ever going to play "Memory of the Green star".

The back story was since the monsters on Ragol has been erradicated (11 years later), Hunters is now taking up a different role in assisting citizens of Pioneer 2. You can only fight monsters now in VR systems.

The quest start with Chibi Break leading you to see Nefu Miyama (Zoke Miyama's father and teacher). Nefu was glad that you can make it here, then talks about how he has this VR field and is wanting to train his two students with it. Then Chibi-Break and Chibi-Orland complaining how they don't need anyone to take them, they can so totally kick all the asses on their own.

Nefu was annoyed and yelled for both of them to be silent, then again politely apologize for how he has spoiled his students and now ask you to forgive him for asking you to do this tedious job of taking the two chibis through. (he actually keep referring to them as Chibis)

The Chibis hope into the warp into the VR field as soon as they are allowed to do so. You follow. The Chibis didn't think too much of you, after killing a few monsters they feel that are good enough to rock this thing, and hence run ahead of you into the enemies and got their behind handed to them. This is when they started to get a little scared (won't admit it though!) and start fighting harder. Chibi-Break likes to brag and Chibi-Orland while a little more cautious in what he says, is still quite arrogant.

In between battles you realize they really want to get their hunter's licence as soon as possible. Throughout the battle they keep talking about how they want to prove to Jiji (Nefu) that they are more than capable to be hunters. (since Nefu personally designed this VR field it has to impress him) In between stages, the two Chibis talked about great heroes like Zoke Miyama, Rico, and Flowen. Chibi-Orland admitted while they are great heroes, he doesn't really look up to any of them, and trust that Break and himself will be a hundred times better! As you progress the stages with them, they start to think you're pretty cool because you're a real hunter with a Hunter's licence. And you're "not too bad" (compare to them). Then they ask you there were mutated worms on Ragol, is that true? Yoy said yes. And they mentioned "the Four Heroes" that freed Rico and defeated Dark Falz, and if you are familiar with them? You said yes. They thought it's extremely cool. (It seems like they are both really fasincated by the Four Heroes.. took me a while to understand who that is supposed to be)

Anyway. After all the difficult stages, you go to the final stage with the Boss. Barba Ray. Break and Orland were completely shocked that this thing exist and got quite hurt from it. AT this point they really are scared and panicking. Then very relief when you kill it. Then proceed to say, well we are done with this, we past with flying colours! We are the best!

Strange things start to happen... odd looking sqare things appears. Break was curious and touched it, then got sucked into some other dimension. Orland panics and has no idea what to do. Then a fatal system error alarm starts to sound. It says there is a fatal error occured in the VR system (running on windows?) it will shut down automatically in 10 minutes, all hunters in the VR field must leave the room now or you will suffer from mental damages. At this point Orland really freaks out and keep mumbling what to do. After trying to get Orland's attention a few times that you guys should follow and save Break, you both run out of the field.

The VR system looks weird and does look like it's slowly degrating. You run around and around while Orland keep yelling out "Break! Where are you?!" Finally you found Break, but that is the least of your problem. You now have to face Gol Dragon with two frightened Chibi by your side!

Eventually, you killed it. Chibi completely forgot you have helped them again and just then a shadowey figure appear in the light. Chibi is convinced that this is the real boss and run right up to the figure.

*rafoie!*
They both got thrown back and mumbling something about it hurts.
It is Nefu.
Nefu was not impressed. He said the two Chibis were way too confident about their skills. If the error was real do they think they can really survive? They have run ahead on their own, (playing like horrible newbie players) completely ignored teamwork and being selfish. He askes them who always has their back, who try to save their behinds countless time? They both start to realize what Nefu is talking about. Nefu continues, Right. All the time, you, the hunter has been covering for them, making sure this team's safety. Yes, one of the Four Heroes that you chibis admire so much!

Chibis turn their head to look at you in a whole new way. "It can't be!" They said.
Nefu then tell them he hopes they have learned something from this experience. That, and he is going to enter both their name on the next Hunter's examination, and he hopes that they pass with good marks or else he is going to die of embarassment. Then he thank you for doing this job for him and remind you to get your reward from the guild. Chibis expressed their admiration and gratitude, and promise you they will become the best of the best.

As you leave, Chibi-Orland wonders if you will ever meet again. Chibi-Break says confidently, of course you will!

- Black screen with story -
Both Break and Orland past the test and got their Hunter's Licence.

Some year which I forgot:
Orland was with a bunch of hunters at the Cloning facility. But Break wasn't by his side.

... something something.

This is the version of the quest if you want to get "Bullet of the Future Assasin". I'd add more when I play the other version. And maybe add in some more details. There, I hope you all enjoy!

[navci]

Ah forgot to mention:

In the quest on P2, you meet Teifu and Marth Grave. Martha remembers you, and was suprised you havn't changed a bit while she has grown older and already have kids (which is prolly Vivianna).

Then Teifu said something like how proud he is of Miss Martha and such.

[Outrider]

On 2004-03-13 22:47, navi wrote:
Nefu Miyama (Zoke Miyama's father and teacher).



Wait... Nefu was Zoke's dad or Zoke was Nefu's dad?

[navci]

On 2004-03-14 17:53, Outrider wrote:


On 2004-03-13 22:47, navi wrote:
Nefu Miyama (Zoke Miyama's father and teacher).



Wait... Nefu was Zoke's dad or Zoke was Nefu's dad?



Nefu was Zoke's dad and teacher.
Was that sentence this unclear?

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-03-14 18:39, navi wrote:


On 2004-03-14 17:53, Outrider wrote:


On 2004-03-13 22:47, navi wrote:
Nefu Miyama (Zoke Miyama's father and teacher).



Wait... Nefu was Zoke's dad or Zoke was Nefu's dad?



Nefu was Zoke's dad and teacher.
Was that sentence this unclear?



I didn't find it unclear, but I did find it strange. I mean, Zoke was a contemporary of Donoph and Flowen--at least one generation older than the player characters, if not more (Donoph, at least, seems to be extremely old, and Flowen looks aged as well).

Meanwhile, "Memory" takes place eleven years after Ep. II, so Nefu is approximately 29 years older* than Zoke was when Zoke died in "Seek My Master," yet Nefu is still an active Hunter and teacher!

That just seems weird to me--but that's Sonic Team's fault, not yours, navi. Actually, I'd like to thank you for posting this for the benefit of all we offline-only types!

Though I really hope Viviana isn't Matha Grave's kid. I liked Matha, and she doesn't deserve a brat like that!

*29 years assumes Nefu was 18 when he fathered Zoke. That's a pretty low estimate (my dad was 28, for example, and I'm an only child), but if Nefu is going to still be active that number needs to be low.

[navci]

Well I will confirm with you again when I clear Ep 3 Hunters. If my memory serve me right someone over in the Ep 3 General pointed out that Nefu was Zoke's father. I am really sure Nefu taught Zoke, with the same last name Miyama, they will have to be related one way or another.

If Zoke were Nefu's father, then the teacher part won't make too much sense. :|

[Outrider]

On 2004-03-14 19:03, navi wrote:
If Zoke were Nefu's father, then the teacher part won't make too much sense. :|



Well, I understand that. It's just, I was confused. As Dezo said, wouldn't Nefu be quite old if he were Zoke's father? I mean, it's definitely possible... just made my brain explode, that's all.

But yeah, thanks for posting this stuff. No idea if/when I'll ever be able to play the quest.

[shinto_kuji]

Now don't take me 100% on this (as I can't really remember too well), but I'm pretty sure Zoke Miyama isn't Nef Miyama's son. God, I wish I could remember it all though >.< Someone during either the hunter story or arkz story talks about how Zoke was the one who taught Nef, and how after Zoke died, Nef wanted to keep the Miyama style of fighting going, so he began teaching Break and Orland.

Then, supposedly, Nef dies/disappears, so everyone assumes the Miyama style is dead since neither Break nor Orland truly mastered it. Then, later on, you find out that Relmitos is actually Nef Miyama.

Anyway, my point is, unless there is some major plot twist at the end for Relmitos (like for Endu...), he would be way too young to be over 60 years old -.-;

But, like I said, don't take me on any of it, because I have a hard time remembering the details and such. -sigh- Premature memory loss...

[navci]

On 2004-03-15 22:08, shinto_kuji wrote:
Now don't take me 100% on this (as I can't really remember too well), but I'm pretty sure Zoke Miyama isn't Nef Miyama's son. God, I wish I could remember it all though >.< Someone during either the hunter story or arkz story talks about how Zoke was the one who taught Nef, and how after Zoke died, Nef wanted to keep the Miyama style of fighting going, so he began teaching Break and Orland.


I am pretty confident on Nefu being Zoke's teacher. Not the other way around. I had notes when I played that quest. Endu mentioned about Zoke's teacher Nefu... and Relmitos was suprised that Endu knew about Nefu.

[GyroidFanatic]

I've just read through this enitre topic, and I'd like to suggest a few things about various topics discussed throughout it.

1. Couldn't Flowen just use a Telepipe to escape from Falz? In Ep3 it's said that P1 built the Tower of Calcum to help transport objects, since it requires so much energy.

2. Is it possible that the baby Hildebear didn't get affected by Falz because of the Moon Atmotizer he had?

3. About the whole two Calus thing, do you think it has something to do with why Sue wanted/needed Dr. Osto's data in the quest Dr. Osto's Research? Sue might have found a copy of Calus too, and that evolved normally into what it should have become or something like that.

4. One last thing, about the overpopulation and uncounted people. Could this be because a overcreation of Androids/Humanoids? In Ep3 they mention that the solution to overpopulation was to kill all/several of the Androids. After this, they gained more rights and were started to be called Humanoids.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-03-16 15:30, GyroidFanatic wrote:

3. About the whole two Calus thing, do you think it has something to do with why Sue wanted/needed Dr. Osto's data in the quest Dr. Osto's Research? Sue might have found a copy of Calus too, and that evolved normally into what it should have become or something like that.



Somewhat doubtful... Calus would still be 'alive' at that point if you do the Sue subplot in the correct order(Bernie doesn't show up in Knowing One's Heart until well after that - I think you're supposed to do it after Black Paper, actually).

My take on it is that the entire thing with the 'other' Calus was something the Lab did after they got the backup of him from Elly, to try to force Calus to do what he did. If Calus can simply talk to Elly the way he used to, there's no real reason he should ever feel the need to risk his very existance on trying to do something that's part of an abandoned project. On the other hand, if he's part of a collective entity that's hostile to his desire to talk to her, and in danger of being destroyed... Well, suddenly risking his 'life' doesn't seem like such a bad idea, yeah? The system won't allow him to talk to Elly and wants to destroy him. So naturally he's going to try for the only hope of escape and being able to communicate with Elly he has - The MOTHER project. The Lab probably would have known this, and some of the dialogue in the Sue subplot variation really leads to the conclusion that what happened was exactly what they -wanted- to happen.

This of course is assuming that Calus is being honest about his motives, although even if he isn't, it still accomplishes the same thing. He needs to get away from the rest of the collective entity he's become part of, for whatever reason, and thus he does.

Isn't PSO cheerful?

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-03-16 19:18, Ian-KunX wrote:

Isn't PSO cheerful?



Well, that's one think no old-schooler can complain about PSO not carrying forward with the series. Still, it's got to come in second place to PSII:

--Arima trashed by the Scoundrels
--the whole Darum/Tiem tragedy
--Nei's death
--Palm blowing up
--Mother Brain destroyed, condemning the surviving population of the system to environmental degradation and the loss of its technology base
--the deaths of the last survivors of the planet Earth (you know that place, right? ^_^)

and...

--Oh, yeah, the question of whether the PCs actually live through the final battle is left open.

Man, that's one dismal game.

[shinto_kuji]

Just stopped by to correct myself!

Relmitos (Nef Miyama) was indeed Zoke's teacher. In fact, Nef was his father. He kept the young look by taking an enhanced version of the growth drugs newmans use.

Relmitos even talks about how old he is, and how he is about to die.

So, yeah... guess I taught myself!

[Para]

On 2004-03-14 12:17, navi wrote:
Ah forgot to mention:

In the quest on P2, you meet Teifu and Marth Grave. Martha remembers you, and was suprised you havn't changed a bit while she has grown older and already have kids (which is prolly Vivianna).

Then Teifu said something like how proud he is of Miss Martha and such.


Ow 9 Pages of reading... anyways
I still dont understand how Teifu is the butler... the butler is a RANGER as mentioned in the quest Grave's Butler.
Unless someone rescued him when he was dying and ressurected him into a HUcast thus the part HUmanoid would come into play.
As for Viviana being... their child? Wha?


Oh yeah also about Dark Falz having multiple forms and such. Remember the ultimate scene.. it only showed Rico battling Dark Falz's Third Form, it could possibly be that Dark Falz never had a host body and the third form is his original state. While first form and second form was influenced by Rico and Dark Falz merging together (hence the breasts and the humanoid face on the first two forms and the arms.)

As for Rico, Osto, Flowen, and Olga, to me they were the only survivors... no wait... I think there were a group of scientists that assisted Osto were alive as well after the explosion.

Flowen gets injured from leading the army into battle in the ruins. Rescued and brought to Osto. Osto still researching on Beta 722 sees the corruption around the lab (AI going nuts, Beta722 escaping) brings Olga (The unaffected AI) Flowen and a team of scientists to the Gal Da Val laboratory. Which there he continued his research and started on Flowen.

Explosion occurs and kills everyone except Rico and Osto's team (I think the explosion was centralized around the central dome so Osto has to be alive at this time)

Rico goes to investigate the explosion and ultimately becomes abducted by Dark Falz while the Pioneer II government (Tyrell) dispatches Hunters, Rangers and Forces to investigate.

Episode I takes place while Osto does his stuff on Flowen and Olga Flow is born. Osto's creations go nuts and slaughter the scientists and most likely Osto himself.

Olga Flow and Dark Falz together create Endu??

Dark Falz is defeated and Olga Flow senses the defeat. Episode II takes place.


Also abit of note on song IDOLA The Strange Fruits
*spoiler for those who havent played Episode III*
Amplum Umbla translated is like Dark Plant. Now when you see Amplum Umbla, it looks like a plant of some sort but you think about it... a seed... it is the core of the problems.. the beginning so the outer shell of Amplum Umbla could be the Fruit and seed inside. Hence IDOLA The Strange Fruits.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nites on 2004-03-20 01:15 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

Er, I'm pretty sure that Osto didn't survive the explosion.

<soth>
Sue:
The result is the monsters that roam Ragol...
And the explosion on the surface...
Elly:
-[pauses]
No...
Delta:
-Yes...
And everyone disappeared.
Even father.
</soth>

'Father' being Osto, this rather indicates that he died like everyone else.

...Serves him right.

[Para]

Disappearred? How does Delta know about it? I havent played Seat Of The Heart yet so I am unsure.

From what I can spectate is that Osto disappearred to his seabed facilities with flowen and olga?

Err just a note on Barba Ray and De Rol Le and Dal Ral Lie. I dont think Barba Ray is the final evolution of De Rol Le. Remember De Rol Le Needs the "Horn" to inject his sap into other creatures. In Ultimate you get a clear shot of that horn.

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-03-20 02:08, Nites wrote:
Disappearred? How does Delta know about it? I havent played Seat Of The Heart yet so I am unsure.

From what I can spectate is that Osto disappearred to his seabed facilities with flowen and olga?

Err just a note on Barba Ray and De Rol Le and Dal Ral Lie. I dont think Barba Ray is the final evolution of De Rol Le. Remember De Rol Le Needs the "Horn" to inject his sap into other creatures. In Ultimate you get a clear shot of that horn.



Delta's located in the control tower on Gal De Val. He'd presumably be aware of the Seabed facility (remember that the Seabed is where Flowen was taken way back when; it's the major experimental facility on Gal De Val Island)--for him not to be would be like being a professor at a very small university and not knowing there was an administration building on campus. Actually, worse, since almost everything was presumably done in the Seabed (while the surface was used for test subjects).

Likewise, you'll note that Osto's experiments on Flowen definitely began prior to the explosion. Elly specifically points out that the time stamp of Flowen's CCA area message logs date to before the explosion. However, Log 4 indicates that the experiments had already begun--"Soon, the experiments began on my body."

Basically, there's no reason to believe Osto was like anyone else from Pioneer 1. The only "survivors," if you can call them that, were the Dark-possessed entities (Rico in DF, Flowen and Olga in Olga Flow) and AIs such as Calus, Vol Opt, Delta, and Epsilon.*

*Yet more evidence, by the way, that the so-called "explosion" was spiritual rather than physical in nature. Since the AIs weren't "people" per se, they couldn't be consumed in the explosion and had to be hacked. No idea what happened to Pioneer 1's androids, though.

[Para]

Erm Rico was alive and not abducted after the explosion otherwise why did she start investigating?
Remember how she said "But the explosion at the central dome" so Rico has to be alive and not "were the Dark-possessed entities (Rico in DF, Flowen and Olga in Olga Flow)"

As Delta being the all knowing, guess it sorta makes sense? Though was Central Control actually connected to Seabed facilities or no? Because it doesn't seem like it though... maybe there was communication between Central Control and Central Dome but not with the seabed laboratories?