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anwserman
Jan 25, 2004, 03:32 PM
Texas Church Cards People Who Patronize Adult Stores
By Lianne Hart
Times Staff Writer

KENNEDALE, Texas — It's 2:30 on a Thursday afternoon, and inside a windowless adult video store a dozen people are perusing XXX-rated movie titles. Pastor Jim Norwood surmises this because he has photographed the customers' cars in the parking lot, carefully adjusting his digital camera so that each license plate is in focus.

Each car owner will soon get a postcard in the mail from Norwood's Oakcrest Family Church. On the front will be a color photo of their vehicle in the video store parking lot. On the back will be a note: "Observed you in the neighborhood. Didn't know if you were aware there is a church in the area … please stop by next time. We'd love to have you visit."

Norwood, 56, who says he is a reformed drug abuser on a mission to rid the town of sexually oriented businesses, calls the postcards an "invitation to church."

Steven Swander, a lawyer for an adult business in the area, calls it intimidation. "To me the question is, are they doing it really to communicate their message, or are they trying to blackmail people, in a way, by embarrassing them?" Swander asked.

The distinction matters little to Norwood. "I want these people to know someone is noticing them," he said, chomping on a piece of gum. "If they're going to come to my neighborhood, I have a right to go into theirs."

Norwood's campaign against adult businesses picks up on a theme that began four years ago when Kennedale — a Fort Worth suburb — annexed 58 acres of unincorporated land. With the expansion came five sexually oriented businesses that the city then tried to force out.

The businesses sued in federal court, claiming violations of free expression. Three of the businesses have since settled their claims, agreeing to close, relocate or — in one compromise — add a pizza parlor to dilute the impact of its primary line of business. Tired of the bickering, Norwood and a group of church volunteers last month armed themselves with digital cameras and began patrolling the parking lots of the two businesses still involved in the lawsuit.

At least once a week, a volunteer traces the license plate numbers to the owners of the cars using an online service that searches an automotive database for a fee. In Texas, license information is a matter of public record. So far, 300 postcards have been mailed, Norwood said.

The cost of the program, which could reach $15,000 a year, is covered by donations from local businesses and private individuals, Norwood said. Oakcrest Family Church, located in a ragged neighborhood behind the sexually oriented businesses, could not otherwise afford the expense, he said.

This neglected stretch of auto salvage yards, trailers and rickety wood-frame houses seems at first glance to be sliding into despair. But at one house, someone has resolutely planted a 5-foot wooden cross in the middle of a scraggly lawn; at another house, plastic ducks decorate a freshly swept front porch.

The sound of children's laughter filters from a playground nearby. There is life here, but outsiders don't seem to notice, said Gloria Price, who has lived in the area since 1970. "When we were unincorporated, everything just got dumped out here," she said, adding that something should have been done about the adult-oriented places "a long time ago."

Price cooks meals for the underprivileged at the church, where the congregation includes ex-cons, former drug addicts and recovering alcoholics. Norwood describes a personal history that includes charges of public intoxication, assaulting a police officer and weekends serving time in county jails. That was more than 25 years ago when, he says, he owned several auto body shops in the San Francisco area and had unlimited access to pornography through a friend who managed a chain of pornographic bookstores.

Now, when he's not counseling prisoners at the Tarrant County Jail in Fort Worth, the no-nonsense Norwood runs a flower shop steeped in the fragrance of scented candles. "I'm hard-core about being against pornography, because I know firsthand what it can lead to," Norwood said. His postcards list a schedule of church services and the church's "counseling and classes on sexual addictions."

The targets of Norwood's concern are not thrilled. "What other people do is not his business," said Roger Vallez, 47, as he left the video store. Vallez, who said he was a contract engineer, said he wouldn't welcome nude clubs in his neighborhood, though. "There ought to be a place in the middle of nowhere for these places."

A young man in a blue pickup pulled into the lot, an aluminum ladder rattling in the bed. When told of Norwood's surveillance program, his eyes darkened. "I'm just going to rent a video and go home. I'll be [angry] if I get a postcard in the mail. I think it's stupid. People aren't going to stop doing what they want to do," he said.

Norwood readily agreed. But those who dismiss his invitation to church will perhaps take their business elsewhere, "somewhere they won't be hassled," he said. "There are a lot of other places … where they can go if they want to persist in this kind of behavior."

Norwood is also counting on unhappy reactions from wives or girlfriends who get to the mail first. "When she asks, 'What were you doing over there?' they're going to have some explaining to do. If they're embarrassed by it, maybe they shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

Norwood is aiming his camera at a white sedan parked at a strip club, the driver still in the car, absently changing the knobs on the radio. Another man leaving the club notices Norwood, slips behind the wheel of his pickup and hurries out of the lot. Too late. Norwood had photographed his license plate.

John Gamboa, a lawyer for one of the businesses that has settled with the city, said Norwood's photo campaign is harmless. "If this man wants to spend money on postcards, fine. As long as he stays within the bounds of the law, he has every right to do it. What he seems to forget is as long as we stay within the bounds of the law, we have every right to be there," he said.

Norwood, a former city councilman in nearby Arlington, has no intention of stopping. As long as the sexually oriented businesses remain in Kennedale, his camera will be at the ready, he said. "Even if they move somewhere else in town, we'll keep at it. Whether it's 2 o'clock in the afternoon or 2 o'clock in the morning, there's a good possibility we'll take a picture and send a postcard."

OK, this pastor guys needs to be frickin shot. This steps over the line of "believing in something" and "pushing your beliefs on someone else." This is horribly ludicris and this guy pisses me off. What the adult store should do is give the church a taste of its own medicine, to put ads for 25% off porn at the store on the windows of the vehicles attending the church.

Bradicus
Jan 25, 2004, 03:42 PM
:/
Blackmail and nothing else...

Solstis
Jan 25, 2004, 04:06 PM
Interesting message, bad way of doing it.

Sord
Jan 25, 2004, 04:12 PM
OK, this pastor guys needs to be frickin shot. This steps over the line of "believing in something" and "pushing your beliefs on someone else." This is horribly ludicris and this guy pisses me off. What the adult store should do is give the church a taste of its own medicine, to put ads for 25% off porn at the store on the windows of the vehicles attending the church.


I agree. Only i want him tortured first, not by pain, but by forcing him to watch a good deal of XXX videos. Then he can be shot.

navci
Jan 25, 2004, 06:09 PM
I agree. Only i want him tortured first, not by pain, but by forcing him to watch a good deal of XXX videos. Then he can be shot.


And point out to him that he in fact likes it. He might die of shame. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

... grrr.

Bradicus
Jan 25, 2004, 06:11 PM
On 2004-01-25 15:09, navi wrote:


I agree. Only i want him tortured first, not by pain, but by forcing him to watch a good deal of XXX videos. Then he can be shot.


And point out to him that he in fact likes it. He might die of shame. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

... grrr.


I like the way you think >:)

Deathscythealpha
Jan 25, 2004, 08:18 PM
Wow, sounds like a right nut job. As ive said in many a thread before, that guy should look into the belief of Lassaiz Faire (i think i screwed up the spelling again), let people do what they want to do. I dont think its harming the pastor at all when some guy (or girl) goes and buys porn. But then again, it is in the land of the free...

Amiadon
Jan 26, 2004, 07:54 AM
Kill him. Kill them all.

Black000Moon
Jan 26, 2004, 11:46 AM
Whats wrong with a little bit of porn? It never hurts. Damn norfag.

Omni-Man
Jan 26, 2004, 11:59 AM
HE HE HE HE HE HE...

I one saw a bumper sticker, and the message stuck with me ever since:
"Oh Lord, please deliver me from your followers."

This is typical behavior of the "born-again" bible thumpers-ex convicts. They never really learn to live with the guilt over what they did no matter how grotesque or banal the offense. I'm really not about Texas law, but in California I do believe it is Illegal to photograph someone for solicitation purposes without prior legal consent by the subject.

What this "Mission from Jesus" jerk-off needs to realize is that he is causing way more disruption and negative thinking in his community than a few porn shops ever could.

I would haul this guy in on a breach of the first amendment, convict him, shove his "You are my Sunshine" ass into a prison cell, and after he's been sodomized by bubbles the big black vunderkock for a few years beat him to death with a 3" rubber spork.

BTW when I form an actual opinon about this, I'll let you all know http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wet-trout.gif

Uncle_bob
Jan 26, 2004, 04:54 PM
Dear lord you people have problems. Yes, he shouldn't be on everyone's sack shoving the bible down their throat because people are going to porn stores, but do you really think he needs to be KILLED for it? Uncle can guarantee that ALL of you and himself have done FAR worse things than that. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Anubis_
Jan 26, 2004, 05:06 PM
My father is a Pastor of a baptist church..(Believe it of not..)

And his beliefs are some what along the line of that guy in your post..

All i have to say is.. Im currently 19,, They're about 12 members that attend services now(Including my family of http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif, and I hate attending his services..

KodiaX987
Jan 26, 2004, 05:22 PM
If you think that's annoying, hear this one.

The case of the Jeovah's Witnesses went in court over if they should be allowed to go out there and knock at your door to solicitate you or not. Well guess what, the little fuckers won. They now have the legal right to come right over to my home to deliver their bullshit.

Uncle_bob
Jan 26, 2004, 05:29 PM
On 2004-01-26 14:22, KodiaX987 wrote:
If you think that's annoying, hear this one.

The case of the Jeovah's Witnesses went in court over if they should be allowed to go out there and knock at your door to solicitate you or not. Well guess what, the little fuckers won. They now have the legal right to come right over to my home to deliver their bullshit.



Eh, you can always make moaning noises and play records of animals screaming, that'll scare them off. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

ABDUR101
Jan 26, 2004, 05:32 PM
That just gives you an excuse to verbally assault someone who knocks on your door. Come on, it's like a surprise "Goto Hell and get off my lawn", except it's win-win, you don't even have to leave your house, they come to you!

As for the pastor. Meh. I'm sure legal action could be taken against him if he keeps sending them out repeatedly.

TactixPimp
Jan 26, 2004, 10:58 PM
I also don't approve of what that pastor did, but I don't believe he should be shot!

That's...uh...kinda hardcore.

Anyway, as far as the Jehovah Witnesses go, I don't ever think about verbally abusing them. Its kinda a part of their religious beliefs to try and share their beliefs with other people, so when they come to me, I just politely tell them that I am set in my beliefs, take their pamphlet that they won't leave with out giving me, and then just throw it in the trash.....no harm, no foul, they fulfill what they need to do, and I go back to my business...

As much as I don't like the extremists in the Christian faith or any faith, I think outright cursing and being disrespectful to any person is just as bad as what they do.

KodiaX987
Jan 26, 2004, 11:05 PM
On 2004-01-26 19:58, TactixPimp wrote:
I also don't approve of what that pastor did, but I don't believe he should be shot!

That's...uh...kinda hardcore.
Texan pastor, Texan justice!


Anyway, as far as the Jehovah Witnesses go, I don't ever think about verbally abusing them. Its kinda a part of their religious beliefs to try and share their beliefs with other people.


It's inscribed within my religious beliefs that I must yell "MAKIALA ROCKS ASS!" with a megaphone at 3 AM every night. Doesn't sound that nice now, does it? Well, JWs are like the guy at 3 AM. No one is interested in hearing someone else's religious convictions. If I wanna become a JW, I'll go ring at their place.

TactixPimp
Jan 26, 2004, 11:17 PM
You're absolutely right....they are imposing their beliefs like a guy on a megaphone, and no one really wants to hear it... my point was that being verbally abusive/disrespectful to them is not in social morality. I choose not to be disrespectful to them, but the way you handle that situation is everyone's own business. Its just depends on the kind of person you are.

geewj
Jan 28, 2004, 02:02 AM
So let's just say that the owners of this XXX store went by the church on a regular basis and took down the license plate numbers. And they sent each one of them a postcard saying "I don't know if you've noticed , but there's an XXX shop in the neighborhood. We welcome you to stop by."

What do you think would happen to them?

kingmurp
Jan 28, 2004, 06:13 AM
I go to pr0n stores all the time, usually for laughs and adventure. I'd send a notice back to them saying something along the lines of "please don't send anymore notices, or else a harassment suit would follow." Then maybe that $15,000 could towards a plethora of pinatas.

Ness
Jan 28, 2004, 06:56 AM
On 2004-01-26 14:29, Uncle_bob wrote:

Eh, you can always make moaning noises and play records of animals screaming, that'll scare them off. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



That made me laugh really hard.

Anyway.....

I know that some Christians really get into spreading "the message" around, but this guy has gone to far.

Squall179
Jan 30, 2004, 01:45 PM
Or for another recording.......
(yes, I am serious)
That verballization Olga Flow says, and play it really loud. I actually use that on telemarketers if they call me for a second time. (1st time I give them a warning not to call again, second time they talk to my "friend")

[i]ring
Telemarketer: "Hello, would you like to buy some deathsticks?"
Tape begins to play
Olga Flow: "YoUkIlLeDmYgOdDeSs!!!"
Telemarketer: "AHH!!"
(A telemarketer actually screamed once....heh.....heh....heh....)

Hrith
Jan 30, 2004, 02:03 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
merica

yeah, shot him

Blitzkommando
Jan 30, 2004, 07:10 PM
Hmmm... travelling salesmen/JW... I have a recording that would be usefull in the event they do come by. I combined the sounds of a doorbell ringing then quickly switching to the sound of a person falling to his death. I could just play the tape and say something around the lines of, "last time a salesperson came by they...."

And about the Pastor. Yeah that's a bit extreme but then again that's not nearly as bad as say, oh I don't know, the Irish? I mean come on. They've been shooting each other for real over Protestant vs. Catholic. That is extreme. The pastor? Not so extreme. He should have charges brought up againt him equal to the crime in accordance with the laws of that area of Texas.

Ketchup345
Jan 30, 2004, 08:31 PM
On 2004-01-30 10:45, Squall179 wrote:
Or for another recording.......
(yes, I am serious)
That verballization Olga Flow says, and play it really loud. I actually use that on telemarketers if they call me for a second time. (1st time I give them a warning not to call again, second time they talk to my "friend")

[i]ring
Telemarketer: "Hello, would you like to buy some deathsticks?"
Tape begins to play
Olga Flow: "YoUkIlLeDmYgOdDeSs!!!"
Telemarketer: "AHH!!"
(A telemarketer actually screamed once....heh.....heh....heh....)


Uhh.. last I knew the Don-Not-Call List was in effect (if you are in the States). Why not sign up for that?

Ness
Jan 30, 2004, 08:37 PM
On 2004-01-30 17:31, Ketchup345 wrote:


On 2004-01-30 10:45, Squall179 wrote:
Or for another recording.......
(yes, I am serious)
That verballization Olga Flow says, and play it really loud. I actually use that on telemarketers if they call me for a second time. (1st time I give them a warning not to call again, second time they talk to my "friend")

[i]ring
Telemarketer: "Hello, would you like to buy some deathsticks?"
Tape begins to play
Olga Flow: "YoUkIlLeDmYgOdDeSs!!!"
Telemarketer: "AHH!!"
(A telemarketer actually screamed once....heh.....heh....heh....)


Uhh.. last I knew the Don-Not-Call List was in effect (if you are in the States). Why not sign up for that?



The Do-Not-Call List was banned due to a lawsuit from telemarketers.

Auronius
Jan 30, 2004, 08:42 PM
On 2004-01-30 17:37, Ness wrote:


On 2004-01-30 17:31, Ketchup345 wrote:


On 2004-01-30 10:45, Squall179 wrote:
Or for another recording.......
(yes, I am serious)
That verballization Olga Flow says, and play it really loud. I actually use that on telemarketers if they call me for a second time. (1st time I give them a warning not to call again, second time they talk to my "friend")

[i]ring
Telemarketer: "Hello, would you like to buy some deathsticks?"
Tape begins to play
Olga Flow: "YoUkIlLeDmYgOdDeSs!!!"
Telemarketer: "AHH!!"
(A telemarketer actually screamed once....heh.....heh....heh....)


Uhh.. last I knew the Don-Not-Call List was in effect (if you are in the States). Why not sign up for that?



The Do-Not-Call List was banned due to a lawsuit from telemarketers.



Plus, that would be a HELL of a lot more fun.

opaopajr
Feb 2, 2004, 06:17 AM
"no soliciting" signs can be used to prevent jehovah's witnesses. technically soliciting is presumed to be ok, unless otherwise indicated - hence the sign. this allows simple things like borrowing a cup of sugar, to door-to-door charity sponsoring, along with sales, and religion. but most states codify that if you post a "no soliciting" sign visibly on the property you have clearly stated ahead of time that it is not ok to solicit at your place. if they do so severe legal repurcussion can take place because you were forewarned.

tack up the sign, if jehovah's witnesses ring the doorbell ask if they saw the clearly presented sign and state that if they don't leave immediately you can legally have them arrested, and threat to press charges.

and i believe the pastor is gonna get caught on a technicality, which is a good thing http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

see, law is a good thing, just make sure it works for you.

Reenee
Feb 4, 2004, 12:55 AM
"Observed you in the neighborhood. Didn't know if you were aware there is a church in the area ? please stop by next time. We'd love to have you visit."

Firstly, that wasn't a question. Either that, or the reporter screwed up.

Secondly, I'd love to come down there and demonstrate that Texas law allows guns in public...

THIRDLY, which should be common sense, my business is none of your business. Scram.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reenee on 2004-02-03 21:56 ]</font>

Ignaciando
Feb 4, 2004, 02:59 PM
I can kinda see where the pastor was coming from (me being a Christian (and a pastor's son, as well)), but I do agree that he was going about it the wrong way.

Someone actually set up a church next door to one pr0n shop in town, which is interesting to note.

Anyways, yes, it was not right of him to do that, but I don't think that shooting him will solve any problems.

Yes, it is in accordance with Christianity to spread the gospel. No, it is not in accordance with Christianity to break the law doing so.

And with that I shut up.