all about forces...

[Jarek]

ok i need to vent a little. =)
the deal with FOrces...it's starting to drive me crazy! so i'm going to post a few things, and if you read this and post back, i'll feel i've done enough.
this also is mostly for ppl in ult, as more strategy is required there. and this also applies to FOrces who actually support, as all should.
here goes...

1. HU's and RA's: please do not constantly ask for S/D. Most of the time we are on it, but just not there yet. and it can be a little annoying sometimes to always see S/D plz.

2. same with J/Z; we will get it. don't worry.

3. FOrces are not completely weak, esp. with our S/Z, so don't flip out if we melee some right along with you. of course it will not do nearly as much, but fluids can be expensive, so any less tp is very appreciated.

4. Do not forget...FOrces have reverser! most people won't wait that extra second for us to cast the spell, thereby wasting a moon atm. instead of a few tp. this can be very useful in places like boss battles and such, where dying is more common.

now a few things for the forces too...

1. most of the above in reverse. remember to keep up the S/D and J/Z so the others don't have to beg for it.

2. pay attention to the others closely. most of the time, death can be stopped if the FOrce is ready with resta or anti. or if it can't, be ready with reverser instead.

3. keep stocked up on fluids as much as possible. nothings worse than being in the middle of a big fight and the FOrce taking off saying they need fluids. come prepared.


and that's about all i can think about at the moment. ahh...i feel better. =) say what you will.

[Vicious128]

Some of my thoughts...



1. HU's and RA's: please do not constantly ask for S/D. Most of the time we are on it, but just not there yet. and it can be a little annoying sometimes to always see S/D plz.

2. same with J/Z; we will get it. don't worry.

3. FOrces are not completely weak, esp. with our S/Z, so don't flip out if we melee some right along with you. of course it will not do nearly as much, but fluids can be expensive, so any less tp is very appreciated.

4. Do not forget...FOrces have reverser! most people won't wait that extra second for us to cast the spell, thereby wasting a moon atm. instead of a few tp. this can be very useful in places like boss battles and such, where dying is more common.


1: FOs are not inhuman, we can't kiss those nasty boo-boo's for you every second.

2: Don't expect us to always keep everybody alive during a large group of enemies that decided to go en masse on the party. If that HU next to you is almost dead and the FO is not around, give him a Resta or two, that shouldn't hurt you at all wouldn't it?

3: If a teammate is down and no one has the guts to run back into the room to revive him, have the melee players guard to the FO when you run back in. It's an effective time/mesta saver for everyone.



1. most of the above in reverse. remember to keep up the S/D and J/Z so the others don't have to beg for it.

2. pay attention to the others closely. most of the time, death can be stopped if the FOrce is ready with resta or anti. or if it can't, be ready with reverser instead.

3. keep stocked up on fluids as much as possible. nothings worse than being in the middle of a big fight and the FOrce taking off saying they need fluids. come prepared.


and that's about all i can think about at the moment. ahh...i feel better. =) say what you will.


1: If there is another FO in the party split up your techniques with him/her. For example you do Jellen and the other does Zalure. Excellent TP saver.

2: Another is efficent technique usage. Don't use Rabarta if someone else is already using it. It's good enough on its own.

3: I cannot stress this enough: if you went to a party, came home drunk, and woke-up with a hangover, don't bother play as a FO. FO's need to be always alert during all situations. A FO that doesn't support the party well is not much of a FO at all.

[Dhylec]

heh, i wish rena were here to give some more Fo pointers.. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[rena-ko]

eh... is that an invitation?
well, at least the 3000th post is not wasted on nonsense...


the others:
-dont demand
-dont run stray
-for soloing there is offline mode
-which can be drawed together to: when SD runs out, gather around your force.
-the force is not your babysitter. if youre low on HP and you want to wait until the fo casts resta, then draw yourself out of danger or use your own punny resta (for those who can)
-carry not just moons but also fluids - yeah i address you, mr. android.

a 'thanks' wont hurt you, esp not if you shortcut it. bonus: if you ever play with japanese, you're leaving a positive impression.



for forces:
-keep resta ready
-keep anti ready (if youre using cure/... units)
-keep JZ ready
-keep rabarta ready
-that is one free button for a custom tech most used in that area. usually its either gizonde or rafoie - or megid in seabed.

(ready == shortcut it on a button)


perfect support force:
chao striker or marina's bag - or any other supporttech boosting weapon, your choice

cure/shock (esp in mountain)
cure/paralysis (esp in temple)
cure/freeze (if you feel like it, and esp while fighting falz and in seabed)

highest def you can come up with without wasting slots. (attribute wall is recommended for its high elemental defense)
highest HP you can come up with.
(on a sidenote, a fomarl is imho the only characterclass where TP mats should be used on)


rabarta spam is discussable. it freezes on chance so more rabarta technically means more freezed enemies. at least its a better (=more productive) way to tag enemies than rafoie. (best is JZ fyi)


sharing techs with other forces.
i dont like that. the other force usually falls into "only-force" pattern and does everything. i usually say "you attack, i support".


well, anything else? hmmmm.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2004-01-26 03:32 ]</font>

[Jarek]

it's good to see people who know what they're talking about. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[ElizaBluefull]

Here's what I've found:

Usually I am pretty darned quick with my casting of support though most of it is not placed on shortcuts. I don't use a resta merge, parasol, or marina's bag mainly because it puts a hurting on my defense. If I am down, I can't heal, so I have to bump that defense/evade as high as I can. Plus, the FOmarl already has a huge support range. While I could stack it more with merges/weapons, I also have another method that may be slightly unorthodox. I use a psycho wand. In a way, I get more out of my tp, and I can stay in the action longer without having to pipe up for fluids as often as I used to when I did use the parasol/bag/whatev. I always have a cure/paralysis equipped, for I have seen some bizarre trap arrangements in places I wouldn't expect paralysis to hit.

When there is a lack of HUs or RAs, I tend to melee or use mechguns. I can still effectively support the party, and my defense is still fairly decent without my pwand equipped. While my damage dealt is not nearly as good as a hunter's, it can make a little more of a difference in the areas where I can't just fire balls of megid at everything and kill them. Concerning support, I see it also as making the enemies easier to kill not only by j/z, but also by dealing some damage too, whether by tech or by physical attack.

[navci]

-which can be drawed together to: when SD runs out, gather around your force.



Now this is a wise person!
Some of us don't play a FOmarl and hence has no support range, if you really need that Anti/SD/Resta, come over to your FO!

And yesh! If you like to solo, play offline. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif If you always run ahead, get surrounded, I won't be able to help you even if I want to. If you keep doing this, I will ignore you. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[RFB]

if there's just a FO an the other players are HU or RA, dont bother the FO... ESPECIALLY IN C-MODE.

It's 1 person having to take care of 3, you're always busy, going from a place to another, always casting, moving, casting, moving, casting, moving, etc, always reacting at the very moment something happens, so DONT-BOTHER-THE-FO.

Being the only FO of a team can be a very extenuant experience, and if you start saying stuff like "Eh, you damn FO, resta me!!" or "WTF is the matter with S/D!?!?" and even more exmaples, you'll only make us get bored of you, and will eventually leave the team saying "You dont like my work?, well let's see how you handle it without my help, see if you can survive!!"(especially in ruins or seabed).

Take care of your FO, or you might regret it...

[rena-ko]

for meleeing as a force (example: fomarl)

recommended situation: solo or together with only one other player

pro: saves on trifluids (even with lowered TP due to mag)
con: buttons get rare

-standard choice: hit mechguns (depends to personal preference / choice options)
-melee mag (pow and dex)
-attribute wall or secret gear (depending on what you have and what you prefer - high physical defense or high elemental defense)

buttonlayout (example):
hard, normal, resta
rabarta, jellen, zalure

rabarta is discussable - could be replaced with special, if you have a charge vulcan for example, or with megid or any other local-area-best-choice.


something to keep in mind:
damage cancel

techs also cancel out damage (thus rabarta can be tollerated due to its freezing side effect, but rafoie-spam is not really recommended because its -blinds out all players, only affects foie-weak enemies), but weapons shouldnt be used mindlessly.

concentrate on enemies that noone else is concentrating on (basic 1on1-Cmode-TA-tactic) after JZ everything in the room.
youre no superhero-ranger or -hunter, youre a force and you do lousy damage. your task is to get rid of smaller enemies or busy bigger ones until a hunter can take care of those.
that means: if a hunter concentrates on an indi belra for example, dont interfere.

[Hrith]

On 2004-01-26 03:28, rena-ko wrote :
If you're low on HP and you want to wait until the fo casts resta, then draw yourself out of danger or use your own punny resta
But Kefka does not even carry mates, and I'm only asking for Resta and Jellen, I do not need anything else.


On a sidenote, a fomarl is imho the only characterclass where TP mats should be used on
Come on, Aelia has over 2000 TP while meleeing and she has used about 3 TP mats.


-attribute wall or secret gear
Have you tried Regene Gear Adv. ? ok this applies to high Lv, but FOmarl's high DFP+Deband+Jellen = monsters heal your TP (don't try in Ruins, GDV or Seabed >_<)


you're no super hero-ranger or -hunter, you're a force and you do lousy damage.
Yeah, right...
Aelia deals more damage than Lv 100-130ish Hunters and Rangers (except maybe HUcast), especially when Rangers do range.
Rifles, guns, shots and other ranger weapons have low ATP compared to my Rainbow Baton, Ancient Saber, Morning Glory or Red Saber.
Unless you are playing with 100% YASMINKOV 7000V users, that is http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif
I doubt that is your case.

Rest is fine by me, especially the "thanks" thing and other players, including androids, carrying Trifluids for you.

[rena-ko]

youre special, kefka, youre the big exception.

[Hrith]

Not more so than you are, just because you'd like people to play that way doesn't mean they have to.

[rena-ko]

heh, ok, lets state this one officially first:
sarcasm doesnt work on the internet.

then.
you found my writing attacked you (your fomarl) in any way?
be ensured this was not intended.
i dunno about your "lets rip it apart in quotes"-answer though. you might want to fill me in on that issue. via PM, since i don't think an extended discussion between the two of us would bring this thread anywhere.

finally i think everyone would realize, that guides esp on playstyle are not the ultimate way. more like an opinion that one can partly adapt in any way one likes. isnt it?

[flash_fire]

Errr my FO does 700-800 Damage per hit with his Mechs, That damage is not puny and can finish almost any monster in one combo. 3*200+6*700=4800 for those who can't multiply. That kills almost any monster in one combo.

[Scejntjynahl]

I use mostly a Hucaseal, I have been told and have seen that as a Force I suck. And it is true. Always cast too early or not often enough.

So to all the forces out there that have the experience and strategy down tight, thank you.

And as an Android I always carry Trifluids on me, and I have offered it to my Force companions, but they rarely ever accept, they prefer to go to the shop and buy their own. Oh well. But I still carry the Trifluids, Moonatomizers, and at least one scape doll (when I happen to rush in and get myself killed I wount upset the Force (hint hint) that is with me.

[Hrith]

I got your sarcasm, hence my reply.
I know it's your opinion, Rena, but you talk in such a peremptory tone.
Besides, being a mod with over 3000 posts and all, most people here will think "yeah, she's right" ; while you're not right, you have a good point, that's all.

Thanks for your nice reply.

[Jarek]

everyone has their own play style. this is just here to show what would be a good, general gameplay of FOrces. for example, people keep saying to use rabarta a lot, but i hardly ever do. it's all up to how you wanna play.

[Eeyore]

Well trying to use rabarta to freeze does have bad things about it. Spamming rabarta on bartles is just going to cancel out hunter/ranger damage with 0 damage.

[rhymmney]

I like this topic... very useful information... got a little snarky there at one point, but things seemed to come around. Anyways... I usually don't ask for s/d because initially I figure the fo knows what the role is and will get to it.. also I have played side by side with Illi on this game and noticed that the screen might indicate i still have s/d and he does not... does that make sense to you people? (lol) Now if the fo consistently does not do it I might ask... I played a signficant part of this game as a hunawearl and often in rooms with those with few good tech skills and have been sort of a junior fo... so I don't wait and rely on the fo to heal me when I need it... also, I always try to say thank you cause I know they will be saving my azz in a boss fight http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif and try to give fluids as I find them... blah, blah, blah....

[ILLI]

well.. hmmm my lil hunewearl has praises for thy fo?? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Yes.. one of the most annoying things for a fo is someone running around screaming sd... Fos sometimes have to watch their azz before they can get to your sd needs.. always remember good forces know their role and will get sd on you asap... Just chill on the sd.. Another thing that helps is finding the fo when your sd has run out.. if a fo is on the other side of the room u can't expect the fo to come to you..

another annoying thing is mates.. sometimes the bot class uses mates before the fo can get to em.. then when you get to a boss fight the bot has to go up to get mates.. as a bot find the fo when you need healing just like you would for sd.. also.. watch the hp meters.. if it shows everyone is down on hp expect a good fo to be healing asap.. dont waste a mate right before the fo heals..

[navci]

Can someone fill me in with damage cancel?

I am not a tech spamming type... cuz tech spamming == lots of money. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Try to use it wisely and only spam rabarta when we are bot-less dealing with something like Indi Belra.

Seriously tho. There are people who expect too much out of the FO. ... I hope they realize support FO has crap for exp, and the toughest job of all.

HUG A FO TODAY!
Heh.

[lain2k3]

one reason I like hunewearls and ramarls is because if there is an incompetent or no force, I can be one. I've actually played with a force that was asking me for S/D. I was like http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif


what the hell?

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif bye-bye now!

[-Luke-]

Yeah, give FOs a break. Their main source of exp is J/Z. But then again, you never know what the person on the other side is like....
I was playing online, a rare oppertunity. Since I am mainly offline as a big ol HUcast (strikes arnie pose and grunts), I don't require S/D. But this HUmar kept spamming a shortcut for S/D. Even if he had it. And the FO broke down and cried over the headset after Forest and Caves. On Dal Ral Lies raft I couldn't see shit cos of his resta spam. Funky...
Luke

[Ting]

What i find irritating are FOs who use stupid tactics, like swinging a sigh of a god at some enemies and doing 0 damage. Then are really mean with using tp (not casting s/d or j/z). Not that getting easy hits is a bad thing, but not even trying to be support, whats the point as playing as a FO?

[Sayara]

Some Forces are "developed" enough to be a supporter.

Me on the other hand, im just real slow on the s/d and j/z.

Though im Happy Nobody's chewed me out for killing creatures as well!
<<; Gotta use Geist Gladius for something! And its cheap!

[and Mah!! Your Name is 2 letters short of mine! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif]

________
How to braise (http://www.cooking-chef.com/braising/)

[Hito_kiri]

Finally some ppl who understand the support Fo. For some reason I have always been intrigued by the FOrce class. Every since the Dreamcast days. Thanks for reminding me how important the support Fo is !!

[Rain_1]

This is not a Challenge related post, but since this is a FO thread, i think it fits in here...


Ok, i've been a hunter for the past YEARS (pso v1 dc anyone?) and now i'm playing as a Force char... My force char is already level 105 (it's a FOnewearl).. and i don't see the actual use of normal and GI spells (appart from the ocasional Zonde and Gibarta).

Foie and Barta just plain sucks, as i can make more damage with my Red Handgun

Gifoie and Gizonde are almost good, but gifoie is just too slow and gizonde connects to less people and does less damage than Razonde

So i mainly use the RA Techniques and the casual Zonde/Gibarta...

But, reading this thread, i found that most forces use normal techniques, and i don't really understand why.. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Also, reading about how canes make your normal attacks stronger and wands make all spells from that particular element stronger, i have yet to actually see it. Mind i'm using Version 2 on pc (same as on dc), and when i put my club of laconium on, the damage is the same as if i put a regular club on (counting the mst boost).

I could see how the use of regular spells work on ultimate, but my red handgun still does more damage with shifta/zalure on than my spells. I understand how having a wand that reduces TP cost forces you to use single-hit spells (since you don't really have a attacking weapon), but is it really worth? since, according to my experiences, a not-so-rare red handgun with good percents and shifta/zalure (hey, you're a force, you have access to those) can deal more damage.

Sorry for the long post.. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rain_1 on 2004-01-28 05:28 ]</font>

[Jarek]

i usually throw around a lot of techs just for variety. just pushing the regular A,A,X combo gets tiring for me. i try to keep it exciting, and seeing a lot of different techs is pretty good to me than just bullets. =)

[rena-ko]

weapon boost:
only work for v3 (ep1-2, cube/xbox)

(btw, the boost guide should be updated and corrected by now)



damage cancel:
due to lag and network issues and the fact that the gameleader's console manages all drops and damage dealt, it happens, when 2 or more players attack one single enemy, their damage doesnt get added - so a strong hit can have no actual effect because some weak hit (or even 0-hit) cancelled it out.

hence c-mode-tactics:
-never attack those enemies that already get attacked by other players (this should be followed by the weaker character). concentrate on some other enemy meanwhile (one that suits your powers) - usually described as "1on1".
-exception would be when you busy an enemy - a sorcerer (where you kill the attack bee to render it harmless) or bringer for example.
-another exception would be when you can cast a weakening status effect on the enemies (J, Z, freeze, shock, para, whatever you can do).

something to know:
-support techs (jellen, zalure) count as hit and can cancel out damage.

so in total, behaviour that gets tolerated:
-dealing one hit (aka tagging/marking an enemy for exp - best be done with something useful - J, Z, gi/rabarta, the actual weakness-tech etc)
-trying to constantly freeze enemies (but use this wisely. if you do damage, its ok, if you dont do damage - on bartles for example, keep it to one try or do something more usefull instead/first -> JZ)

in total, the line between helping and disturbing the team is thin with spam techs.


for tech classes:
when i play fonewearl, i usually use single techs offline, at bosses or single enemies - delbiter for example dont like foie.

online in the normal field, ra techs seem to be more useful.

gitechs seem to be useless but used right (esp on fomar/fonewm, who get gi boost) they can be very helpful.
-gifoie works wonders on slimes or de rol le variants for example - or in the mines, since it delays the damage to the point where the enemy actually can be hit.
-gibarta has a higher chance to freeze (afaik) and should be used on single enemies - belra, delbiter, you name it.

in the end its depending on your personal playstyle.
play like you think you'd help the team the best.

[anwserman]

I do use a lot of my spells, it just varies on the situation. I tell people to use Foi on a single enemy due to the fact that even if your character has a 30% boost to Rafoi, you'll still be hitting only a single enemy with it, wasting TP, and that by using Foi would probably damage said enemy more then with the Ga or Ra foi.

Now, if it was a multihit enemy (variation of the worm), go ahead and use a multi-hit technique. However, spamming Rafoi against a booma is senseless because it wastes TP and is weaker then smacking him with a Foi fireball.

Much like Gol Dragon (the one in Ult Forest), use normal fireballs! Rafoi only hits one area on the dragon, and you'll do moer damage with a single fireball instead with less TP cost.

[ATHANASEUS]

hmm, simple techs CAN be good. if you have a v3 game and are making use of the tech bonuses. especially for newms and newearls that have low atp at lower levels. i have one fonewm, anglachel, who had 600+ mst at level 35. it helps to have ila at levels under 100, after that you can switch to a diff mag 'cuz any more mst doesnt help a ton, just a lot. . . all of this is good discussion and remember that if those HU's are abusing you, just nuke everyone with your wicked techs before they can can even hit an enemy and make them promise not to grovel for s/d. at least that's what i did. also, the androids really shoud be able to fend for themselves. i mean, equip a god/legs or god/body SOMETHING. my main char, RAcast Lancer III can easily not die even offline w/out ANY magic by using common sense (ie: wow five delsabers i must fight and die heroically hand to hand!!! is a no-go. get a slicer or shot and take 'em out with range). and as for mar/marls just use your own weak resta. RAcast use mechguns HUcast use slicers RAmars use sq or fs for the freeze, etc, etc.

[gallaugher]

Non-Forces that quickly demand S/D also need to keep in mind that due to lag the Force might still see that you have S/D on his/her screen even when you don't have it on yours.

Have patience with your Force & be glad they are there. Try playing a Force yourself so that you can appreciate what they bring to the team. If you do this, you will be able to easily recognize a good Force from a bad one.

[lain2k3]

On 2004-01-28 07:26, anwserman wrote:
I do use a lot of my spells, it just varies on the situation. I tell people to use Foi on a single enemy due to the fact that even if your character has a 30% boost to Rafoi, you'll still be hitting only a single enemy with it, wasting TP, and that by using Foi would probably damage said enemy more then with the Ga or Ra foi.

Now, if it was a multihit enemy (variation of the worm), go ahead and use a multi-hit technique. However, spamming Rafoi against a booma is senseless because it wastes TP and is weaker then smacking him with a Foi fireball.

Much like Gol Dragon (the one in Ult Forest), use normal fireballs! Rafoi only hits one area on the dragon, and you'll do moer damage with a single fireball instead with less TP cost.




http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

with fonewms, I have level 28 of both foie and rafoie. fafoie costs less tp, and does more damage. the same goes for zonde and barta class spells.

and on the sil dragon, the reason people spam rafoie depending is because RA techniques have infinite vertical range. foie doesnt hit the dragon while he's in the air always, and people want him back on the ground so he dies faster.

[Superguppie]

Last night I found another annoying effect, that mostly affects RAmars, not FOs. As a RAmar I have S/D, and the HUs sometimes have to ask for it when I am not paying enough attention. (I'm used to having FOs or females around that do it a lot better) Since I recently started a HUmar, I know that he has J/Z. However my companion, although completely aware of my S/D had to be TOLD to use his J/Z. I know that J/Z is as crappy as my S/D, but if you beg for help, you might as well give all the help you can yourself...

[Nai_Calus]

I loathe playing with other Forces if there's any option about it.

...Especially since other Forces almost invariably have all their support techs at L30. Zero's only L30 techs are Resta and Jellen. And then they insist on doing both J and Z, when I can't overwrite either, thus forcing me to be a bad Force and use damage techs if I want to get exp, which is something I despise. I hate when the Force does Rafoie/Rabarta/whatever spam if I'm playing another character. J/Z it and then leave it the hell alone.

My tactic with my FOmar is about the least offensive you can get. Run in. J/Z. Retire to a position behind, but near, the other players. Monitor our S/D. Monitor their HP/staus effects. Resta/Anti as needed. Otherwise I stand there. I'll use a Rabarta, rarely, to try to freeze something large and nasty. If there's a RA with a FS/SQ, I don't bother.

Places I don't resent/possibly condone the use of damage techs:

Rafoie on Sil Bob when he's in the air and the HUs/RAs can't damage him.

Rafoie/Gizonde to attack DRL/BR, as applicable.

Any boss where J/Z has no effect or is a bad idea.

Dark Falz' final form during invincibility periods when HU/RAs can't attack.

Rafoie spam on floor 8 of East Tower. Run to the barrier and start spamming. It keeps the Del Lillies in place and nobody dies from Megid. Not even the HU that annoyingly came along.

Gizonde spam by an unarmed male Force on the Mericarols at the front of floor 6 of East Tower/elsewhere there are Mericarols, if a FS/SQ/Freeze traps are not available. (Rabarta will occasionally freeze them, yes, and is an alternate, but high-level Gizonde will keep them from even moving if kept up constantly.

Grants on Epsilon, since it deals semi-decent damage to him. (And by that time you're bored anyway and need to hurt something to actually stay awake. XP)

If you're obessesed with the idea of actually doing damage, be a melee Force and gear yourself out for that, or make a HU/RA and use them.

If the Force goes up for fluids and promptly swears, the crackwhore that runs the items shop is not selling Trifluids. If you're with them, check if she's selling them for you. If she is, generally they appreciate it greatly if you'll buy them for them. Some will even give you the meseta for them, they know exactly how expensive they are. >_<;;; (I always do, at any rate.) Gifts of fluids if the Force somehow runs out during a fight/close to hitting their PB(FO PB goes up incredibly slowly, regardless of synchro, if one does a pure support or even tech spam role. You have to get beaten around or do some sort of melee damage. Good going, ST, making tech damage not increase PB meter) for a combo are of course greatly appreciated.

If you're a male Force playing a support role, get a Resta Merge. You need it. ST has screwed you over in this deparment, and you have the Resta range of a HUmar.(Literally. My HUmar and FOmar have the same Resta range.) They have also further screwed you by making the only weapon I know of that boosts Resta/Anti range, Marina's Bag, female only. So yeah. Get a Resta Merge. You'll wonder how you lived without it once you stop having to chase people down and stand on top of them to heal them.

And of course when playing a FO, watch -yourself-. Nothing is more annoying than a dead FO. Fsck your MST over for a few God/HPs if need be, you can always pop a Trifluid and cast another Resta.

And don't bloody run off instantly the second we pipe down, mkay? I don't shortcut S/D, it's a stupid waste of buttons. They're right at the bottom of my R+Y list where I can get to them within half a second, but it still takes me half a second. If you run out of my range and start attacking things before I get it, too bad. I'll get to you when I have time.

Just a few of my opinions on Forciness.

[Rain_1]

Also, rafoie hits the enemy instantly, while foie has to travel to the enemy. And since foie doesn't follow the enemy around (and the dragon is usually moving), i just flood rafoie (specially since my hunter pals are around level 100 too and they can't do damage hitting it's leg)...

but i'm talking regular online, not challenge...

[navci]

with fonewms, I have level 28 of both foie and rafoie. fafoie costs less tp, and does more damage. the same goes for zonde and barta class spells.


True. I was thinking one day to foie the single enemy instead of rafoie (me being a FOnewm) and see if that save me any TP, not really. So in my case, foie is only useful for Falz's third form because it has better horizontal range. Rafoie is good in the sense that it is a homing tech, it homes the enemy whereas foie doesn't. But Gifoie, on the other hand, has this gigantic range that affects the whole area, so it's just better than foie. So in my case, Gi and Ra foie wins.

I think with most of the simple techs is that they have superior range. Like in tower when you have to take down those ugly plants or keep them busy so they don't spit their 1 hit KO ball, zonde's range is unbeaten. (maybe by Grants, but Grants takes up way too much more TP and a lot slower)

Agreed with Ian if you're a male FO you need a resta merge very badly. Or, you need to be learn the skillz of running around quickly and not taking damage so you can revive and resta. ... ALWAYS CARRY MOONS! In tight situations don't bother to reverser. Use a Moon! ...

Yesh. I got nothing else to say.

[ILLI]

I cast shifta deband by pressing start and going to tech support then sd.. I learned to do it this way in ver1 with no r+Y screen.. I have became very fast at it and you can't even notice a difference in the time it takes between doing it this way and the R+Y.. This is extremely useful as a fo cause then i can program jellen zailure at the bottom 2 slots of R+Y and other techs at top of R+Y and not even worry about the shifta deband techs on my R+Y..

BTW.. anyone know what im talking about?? lol... This is habit that ver 1 created and has stuck with me since.. I just find it easier to go to the Start menu to cast sd lol

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ILLI on 2004-01-28 12:50 ]</font>

[flash_fire]

I do that too heh. Start, Techniques, Support, Shifta/Deband http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif. I can do it fast, and if some people think I'm too slow, then they can live without my Shifta and Deband anyway. It's not the Force's job to be a babysitter, only to help the team. If they want to help the team by doing 80 damage with a handgun +1, then so be it. Of course the Force who supports the team is alot more useful http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: flash_fire on 2004-01-28 14:12 ]</font>

[navci]

I envy you guys so much. I never got enough techs in v1 to have them cast from menu... But I can cast techs from R menu really fast! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

And reason of me having my SD on button instead of JZ (as many people have told me and repeatedly hit me in the head about it) well it has really become a very bad habit of me holding R trigger to run and stay alive... however, in my defence my JZ is still really quick!

[Jarek]

i didn't think this thread would get so many replies. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif i've been a melee force since the beginning, so i couldn't change to just using J/Z only. i start that way, then usually pull out the borrowed holy ray i have, and do as much damage as i can with that. it's not great, but it's better than doing nothing. i couldn't just stand there; i use techs when needed and shoot the rest of the time.

[Silly_Putty]

Only on the foie series is ra cheaper than gi and gi cheaper than simple. The zonde and barta series have the cheaper tech on the simple level. Also zonde is one of the two cheapest attack techs in the game.

[ViewtifulJoe]

First off, no one should have to worry about Zalure, no matter what level, it sucks. Jellen should be more of a reflex on the higher levels. On Ip, my FOmar's lil dresses don't provide enough protection. Deband should also be a reflex, as it helps in spots where you need all you can get. On multi mode, Shifta, especially level 30 like me, is almost essential. In easier levels where everyone is fine, and dying, damage and accuracy isn't a problem, forget it. they don't need it, they're just a bunch of whiners. (Like me, I call Shifta my drugs. boosts like 600 power it does.) In harder levels and annoying bosses, you should make room in your busy shedule of zondes and such for some Shifta for those stupid hunters and rangers. Like on Vol Opt ver.2, on 2p, me and my friend were doing 170 w/ Barta. But my hunter w/ Shifta does 420-450. Poor Vol Opt.

Just live with it. People will take advantage of Forces.

[navci]

On 2004-01-28 23:06, ViewtifulJoe wrote:
First off, no one should have to worry about Zalure, no matter what level, it sucks.


I beg to differ.
Ep 2 enemies have insane evade, no Zalure, those red words says "miss" become your new screen decoration unless you are a ranger with max ata or something. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Zalure is also essential on bosses. Whereas Jellen, less so, because say, Falz does fix damage, Jellen does not affect him/her/it. But casting Zalure would make it easier for you to deal damage when you can (unless you are FO and then Zalure won't matter).

Many underestimate Zalure. But it's actually very useful. Maybe that's why people go put Zalure on their S-rank Shots instead of Jellen.

[flash_fire]

Zalure is VERY useful. It makes a 200 damage difference per hit for me, with mech gun thats 9*200=1800 damage difference! I would say thats useful.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: flash_fire on 2004-01-29 06:08 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

What level Zalure do you have, and what areas do you go to, and what stupidly high level people do you play with to think that Zalure is worthless? L15 in Forest, for example, doesn't do jack squat, but when you start getting to later areas of the game and most of Ep2, things start to have ridiculous DFP and Zalure makes a HUGE difference.

L30 Zalure is the difference between a FOmar with a Holy Ray doing 0 damage to an Ult Ill Gill and a FOmar with a Holy Ray doing around 170 damage to an Ult Ill Gill. A FOmar with about 1100 ATP with L30 Shifta because he isn't geared for melee combat.

Lets not forget the fact that oftentimes if you use Zalure in addition to Shifta and the HUs and RAs properly pwn things, you won't need Jellen. If it dies before it can hit you, or never has a hope in hell of hitting you in the first place... Why bother with Jellen? Granted, in areas where the monsters are thick/unpredictable/fast/teleport, it can be vital, but oftentimes it's not even necessary and you wonder why you wasted the TP to cast it.

Zalure > j00
(Then again, I'm the type of person who given a choice between the two would rather have J/Z than S/D... Probably why I can stand HUmars and loathe RAmars)

[lain2k3]

I just got my second ramarl into ult (redria) she has 450 bast atp, cause shes taken 3 power mats.

her level 10 shifta and level 11 zalure make the difference between 20 damage per hit with mechs, and 60 damage per hit with mechs.

level 11 zalure is far from worthless.

and a tip for support guys, cast deband before shifta. you wouldnt belive how many humars/casts I've seen run off with just shifta in the ult seabed at level 110 online...

**look of shame**

[flash_fire]

Lol thats funny, I love it when people run off after just the shifta and then immediately get owned because of it!

[Lord_Sloth]

Forces suck! Big time.

[_Sinue_]

...Especially since other Forces almost invariably have all their support techs at L30. Zero's only L30 techs are Resta and Jellen. And then they insist on doing both J and Z, when I can't overwrite either, thus forcing me to be a bad Force and use damage techs if I want to get exp, which is something I despise. - Ian-KunX

Yeah, sorry about that. I know I tend to be a little anal-retentive about support techs when I'm in the room, but in my defense.. I have to be. Jellen/Zelure + Shifta/Deban are Mana's lifeblood. She's not really any good to anyone without them, seeing as how she's much weaker than most other FOnewearls in the magic department. One thing I've learned by playing her, is that there is DAMNED little room for error. She either becomes completely ineffective - or dies. Not so much now that she's up there in lvls.. but it still doesn't take much to bring her down.

Since she's always on the front-lines of combat - I have to make absolutely sure those spells are in place. Most FO's (not anyone in particular, just FO's as a whole) don't keep up on their J/Z duties. Either they don't do it at all.. or they'll only hit one or two waves.. and even then not get everything. A monster sneaking up from behind which I assume has been J/Z'd that hasn't been can be devisating.

The only way I can be completely sure everything is J/Z'd - is to do it myself.

Not to mention, Mana's strenght is in her supperior support capabilities - with melee as a secondary agenda. Take away her role as a support - and she's pretty useless. Her spot would be much better filled by a HU or a RA. I don't really care for attack techs (god knows I go thru enough Fluids just supporting as it is), and since she's been geared to be melee from the very beginning - even another FO in the room doing nothing but casting offensively would be a better choice. That's part of why I don't like playing with other FO's as well. They take away her purpose for being there.

[flash_fire]

Forces Do not suck....
Ok now that that is said, Just because other Forces have LVL 30 spells doesn't mean that you can't tag the enemies.

[Nai_Calus]

Ah, I wasn't talking about Mana, but rather other FOs I've played with. I'm anal retentive about J/Z too. I'll do it with my HUmar if the FO isn't, or if there's no FO. (And I don't mind Mana at all. XP)

What really cheeses me off is when you try to split the duty and then the other FO:

1. Does both anyway, or worse
2. Doesn't do the one they're supposed to be doing.

I don't mind picking up the slack, but it's somewhat annoying. X_x

But yeah. Multiple FOs, as a general rule: Bad.
Multiple -support- FOs... Yeah, no. X_x; (I won't, for example, join a game with a FOmarl or a FOnewearl with Zero unless said FOs are played by people I know, or there are no other open games, because female FOs are better at support than males. 2x S/D is nice, but how often do you cast S/D? You use R/A more, and the male FO's pitiful ranges... Bleh)

[navci]

What really cheeses me off is when you try to split the duty and then the other FO:

1. Does both anyway, or worse
2. Doesn't do the one they're supposed to be doing.

I don't mind picking up the slack, but it's somewhat annoying. X_x


I usually like another FO in my team, actually because I have no support range. So if a FOmarl, or even a FOnewearl joins, (cue Mana!) That is quite awesome for me so I can concentrate on bomb bomb bomb and.. well maybe slack off a little. Hehe

FOs who know what they are doing do not suck!
FOs who has no idea what they are doing and randomly go smack things with their uber whatever, does. Heh

[Rain_1]

On 2004-01-28 23:06, ViewtifulJoe wrote:
First off, no one should have to worry about Zalure, no matter what level, it sucks.


that is just wrong.. zalure lowers defense, and yes, it makes differences even on forces. My FOnewearl makes 1 hit without zalure.. if i zalure the monster, hard attacks do 140, and that's zalure 20. I also noticed that some monsters even get more tech damage when zalure is used. On forest, while u was doing 80 damage with rabarta (trying to freeze them), if i zalure them, i'd do 110.

Also you're a force, you're supposed to help others. Shifta/Deband/Zalure and sometimes Jellen are your good friends and should be easily accesible on your quickmenu. Since i'm a meeling force (i love my +50%dark red handgun), shifta is on my regular keys, Zalure is my first spell on quickmenu and deband is second down.

[Vicious128]

I don't see what's wrong about splitting up techniques. It's useful when that other force around. From experience if one FO is J/Z and the other FO is using attack techniques things don't work out because the FO with J/Z doesn't get all the enemies and the caster FO would just consistently nuke the enemies and eventually get taken out. Spliting techs a incredible time-saver if you have other FO's with experience.



On 2004-01-29 18:47, Lord_Sloth wrote:
Forces suck! Big time.



Well, well, well, look who's talking. I doubt you can do a ULT run efficently without a FO unless your level is 18X. or unless your hacked. Funny thing is that hacked characters can't even do Ruin at all by themselves. FO players are quite vital if you want to do anything more quickly.

[Jarek]

i find that i can easily(well, somewhat) go pretty much wherever i please with my FOmarl. a lot easier then with my HUcast at least. i'm always used to using J/Z on everything mostly because i've done it since forever. although it can be slower by myself, it can still be done.

[LeviathanIX]

This one time, some stupid HUmar (there are WAY too many HUmar online) was sd spamming, while i was trying to bring down a delbiter(on my own because the HUmar was too scared to enter the room) so later in the game, he was struck down by a Dolmolm when he strayed from the party, and he started harassing me about not keeping him alive, so i left his sorry corpse in the seabed, and when he came back, he was started to sd spam again. he went the entire game without sd. so if you are a ranger or hunter, ask politely, or don't ask at all. even though i know it's my duty, cut me some friggin slack, because my i don't exist for your sd needs.

[SpiffyDude42]

I believe that the most important priorty in any party is survival. Whether you're a Hunter, Ranger, or Force, you have to work for this. This means that Forces should be using support techniques first, before you start attacking. Other classes should do this too, but to a lesser degree: If your deband wears out and you're low on HP, stop and cast resta first, don't just walk up to Mr. Booma and get killed. If the Force is surrounded by enemies, don't ask for Shifta/Deband, help them out first.

And the golden rule of helping forces (Or at least mine): You want S/D, you go to the Force. Don't say "sd plz!!1!". Kindly ask for it, then stay by the Force while he/she casts it. And remember, as long as Jellen and Zalure are cast, you should be fine anyways.

[opaopajr]

i believe playing your characters with, well, character. it's ok to have a FO that doesn't want to be your s/d j/z r/a babysitter - though i usually have warned teammates ahead of time. they still played with me and i've always been an asset. it's just i refuse to pigeonhole my characters and my playtime to anyone's expectations. if they don't like how i play they can (and have) join another game. but i've had a nice collection of guild cards and great online teams, so i know people do have the freedom to try different styles. as long as you have some teamwork and etiquette standards you'll find people.

if you wanna tech spam go ahead, just give your team a heads up. and to spam artfully and efficiently is actually a challenge. too often people spam spells that have no effect on the monsters at hand... e.g. rabarta freeze is nice, but let jellen and flinch dodge do the work instead. and if a 'cast is with you let them use their traps - they are more efficient than rabarta spam for freeze.

multi force games are an absolute blast. if you haven't tried a competent multi-spam-force team you haven't lived. i remember in old v1 having a good team of all forces, when hitting v.hard was new and the double saber was the icon of cool. we went into v.hard mines and occasionally we'd go blind by all the ra[zonde/barta] on screen, but that's part of the fun. remember doing it again on v2 on ultimate ruins and it was still fun. not as fast, but watching 4 gifoies fan out a wave of destruction before the rafoie was spammed was great. and every now and then a near in-sync wave of gifoies would occur, that'd be a special sight, it was like an nigh continuous circle of fire. sure you fight differently - sure you may take more time in some places. but it was fun http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

being an efficient support member is fun, but so is being a deliciously destructive one too. as long as you obey the tennets of being cool it'll be all good.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: opaopajr on 2004-02-02 00:42 ]</font>

[ViewtifulJoe]

Maybe I should rephrase that. Zalure in my opinion can be useful, but nowhere near Jellen.

My friend's force uses Jellen on Ult Delsabers, the damage goes from 450 to 120. Jellen a group of enemies and they're useless. (Except Gillchiches and such w/ range)

Just saying that Zalure changes damage quite a bit, but Jellen quite a bit more.

[Jarek]

jellen can make the enemies less fierce, and is kinda the top priority for me. zalure simply makes them easier to kill faster; not necessarily, 100% needed, but i still use it nonetheless. it is quite useful.

[flash_fire]

Personally, I'd rather use Zalure because I can kill any BASIC monster all the way up to ruins in one combo, and that means they die before they get to me, so Jellen is the one not needed.

[Aries2]

Many ppl have there own opinion, but I've come across problems like this because I have the highest magic. To the ppl playing PSO thinks that the one with the highest magic dose all the casting, and they just assume that FOs will always have the highest magic and there only purpose is for support. I would know. I was like that, but when I read this it changed my view on FOs. I've never done well with my FO, so stick with my HUnewearl.

Go here for a tip on techniques I learned playing PSO http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=75220&forum=1&1

[ViewtifulJoe]

On 2004-02-03 04:15, flash_fire wrote:
I'd rather use Zalure because I can kill any BASIC monster all the way up to ruins in one combo, and that means they die before they get to me


Please. You've got to be kidding me. Any Force who with Zalure can kill ruins enemies in one combo must be so high that they need niether zalure nor Jellen ANYWAY! Or you have a mag with power instead of mind http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif. Or you are a hacker. But my hunter w/ 1200+ power can barely do that. What force has that much power?

[flash_fire]

Well I can Kill Basic Enemies in Forest Caves Mines and Ruins in One Combo offline with my FOmar. Ult Mind you. And Forest Caves and Mines Online. His base ATP is 1002 and his weapon are a pair of Vulcans that shred enemies like nothing. Coincidentally, I can't be hit by Basic monsters in Caves Forest or Mines online or offline, But Ruins monsters can still hurt me, if barely. Melee FOmar is cool cause He has his own Shifta Deband Jellen and Zalure http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: flash_fire on 2004-02-05 04:26 ]</font>

[Aries2]

You know Gefoie, Razonde, and Rabarta right?
Well guess what, with these techniques you can attack enemies on the opposite side of the door with out going in. The only ketch is the enemy needs to be close enough to the door for the technique to hit.
Plus if you can stand right in the door way you can use techniques like Rafoie, Gefoie, Rabarta, and the Zondes with out the enemy coming after you. The only problem is that this isn't as easy to get.

So if your having a hard time and can't get passed a spot, just remember that you don't always have to fight the enemy "face to face".

PS: I've only done this on the GC so I don't know if this will work for other platforms, but I think it should work.

[flash_fire]

My Post was messed up and I had to fix it, all its text was gone! Just curious....

[zimmk2vgc]

When I play with my Fonewearl, she has about 1500 TP, at just over lv 100. By sheer mistake I was fighting Olga on ultimate, realising I had my money out when I died so I was, needless to say, screwed. I now intiate a policy of "TRIFLUIDS FOR S/D" saves me a bundle. When you get to those high levels, a Fo need trifluids in order to survive. Because my fo's ATP is crap, I am forced to use techs to attack, using TP. That will come to an end when my chocolate Sato grows up http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif.

TRIS FOR S/D!!

[ViewtifulJoe]

The whole "spell through room" works best with Gifoie for me cuz mine can hit guys halfway through a room. Have you ever had enemies hit YOU through a room? A Baranz followed me to a door way and I stopped in the hallway thinking I was safe. Then it shot and instead of the missiles hitting the doorway and exploding, they hit me in the hallway. Then it went back to its spot. Thatsa my anecdote.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ViewtifulJoe on 2004-02-05 19:45 ]</font>

[flash_fire]

OMG.... Baranz plus High Enough DFP not to Fall down = Dead FOmar :/ lol I hate Baranz and Chaos Bringers and Indi Belras for hitting me in other rooms!

[opaopajr]

heh, remember that. enemies hitting through a room. think i've experienced that on each version i played. sometimes it even killed me. a funny one was v1 against a sinow. sometimes they can get stuck in the door jamb on their way to chase you. so as i was running back through the hallway to reset the enemy and make it safe to set a pipe he does a flying leap through into the hallway. i was already weakened at the time and needed to go to the ship anyway... but that wasn't what i had in mind. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

learned from then on not to play my resources so close to empty and it's ok to leave a pipe near the doorway, not on the other side of the hallway! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif funny things we learn when we first play.

[Jarek]

using ryuker every so often can be really helpful, especially on different levels of the control tower in ult. that way if eveyrone snuffs it, there's a quick way to get back and revive the others. i try to do it often, but sometimes i forget. ^_^